Author Topic: Paleo anyone?  (Read 38209 times)

sloof70

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #100 on: August 26, 2014, 01:12:33 PM »
Generally speaking I follow a low carb diet similar to Paleo (more like keto). Started over a year ago and dropped 40 in about 9 months. I could lose a few more, but I'm feeling fine now. It's more satisfying, easier, feels better, and my blood work is great. Session lager is my secret. And by eating fatty meats, and green veggies, groceries are pretty cheap.

Sounds very similar to my approach.  Would love to be down 40 in 9 months.

This question may be too personal but have you or any readers experienced drops in testosterone or libido after being on a paleo like program.   I see in the literature that this is pretty common and especially if the diet is calorie restricted to lose weight with little or no carbs.   

If so, what did you do to address this?

Thanks
Sorry for the delay.

I have never had a high sex drive, in fact I would say I have a low sex drive for a man of my age, so I can't say I've noticed any change. Not married, not currently seeing anyone, so this isn't a problem that anyone else has to deal with.

Bob W

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #101 on: August 26, 2014, 07:46:10 PM »
So I started this thread about 2 months ago.  I'm down around 8 pounds on80% paleo.  Feel good and pants fitting nice. Staying with it!

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #102 on: August 26, 2014, 08:25:00 PM »
Didn't follow the thread 100%, but got a feel for it.  Any input on this:  http://www.raptitude.com/2014/08/what-happened-during-my-30-days-on-a-liquid-superfood/
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 07:42:04 AM by EscapeVelocity2020 »

Ambergris

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #103 on: August 26, 2014, 08:59:10 PM »
I tried something very close to paleo about 2 years ago. I got terrible gout on that diet, due to all the meat (the purines in the meat caused my gout). I probably have a genetic predisposition for gout but all the same I would be careful if you have anyone in your family that suffers from it. After seeing 3 different doctors I was referred to a rheumatologist who helped me control the gout through diet alone (no gout since controlling for diet). I now diet using calorie restriction maintaining sensible carb/protein/fat proportions and all essential micro nutrients which works for me.

I'd be willing to bet it was excess fructose that was causing you gout problems.  Our ancestors ate rich, fatty meat and didn't get gout.

http://chriskresser.com/will-eating-a-paleo-diet-cause-gout

Actually I don't really think there is enough evidence to show that my ancestors ate what is called for in the paleo diet. I eat tons of fructose in fruit all the time and it doesn't cause me any gout whatsoever, but I have seen some new studies that show a possible fructose linkage, I would like to see more experiments before deriving any conclusions. I found the two biggest causes of gout episodes were alcohol and purine rich foods (meat, lentils etc.) which jives with medical consensus around the disease. However that said I was told not to cease eating meat because it is still good for me in recommended proportions by a Doctor who specializes in that area.

You're absolutely right. I find it immensely amusing that so many people think our ancestors ate a "low carb" diet1. At least one of the major theories about early human foraging is that it was mostly based on the consumption of tubers, with meat as an occasional supplement.  Modern human foragers are all over the place on the animal foods consumption spectrum: the most obvious thing about human foraging is that its about eating rich, complex, hard to extract calorie sources wherever they are found, and it is necessarily opportunistic, not ideal.

Also the thing about fructose is bizarre: we are the descendants of primarily fructivorous animals, one of whose main calorie sources is fructose. We have a beautiful, complex, specialized fructose digestion pathway that screams "adaptation for eating fructose".  The problem is there is no ideal food: all diets in ancient history involved massive tradeoffs between starvation and toxins or other digestive or health issues.  Even if eating meat turns out to have been our primary calorie source, this may have involved an adaptive tradeoff of the form "stay alive now, eat lots of (dense) calories from fat because by the time you die of heart disease your genes will already have been passed on". Not necessarily a tradeoff that modern humans should accept.

1. I realize that some Paleo-ers are more subtle and talk about grains and legumes as bad carbs, and maybe tubers are good. But how the hell your body tells the difference is beyond me. Both food sources give you complex starches; natural forms of both are loaded with toxins which generally require processing (modern grains and tubers have had this bred out of them).

TL;DR: Actual science about what is good to have in your diet FTW!!
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 09:15:58 PM by Ambergris »

Peacefulwarrior

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #104 on: August 27, 2014, 12:22:46 PM »
Generally speaking I follow a low carb diet similar to Paleo (more like keto). Started over a year ago and dropped 40 in about 9 months. I could lose a few more, but I'm feeling fine now. It's more satisfying, easier, feels better, and my blood work is great. Session lager is my secret. And by eating fatty meats, and green veggies, groceries are pretty cheap.

Sounds very similar to my approach.  Would love to be down 40 in 9 months.

This question may be too personal but have you or any readers experienced drops in testosterone or libido after being on a paleo like program.   I see in the literature that this is pretty common and especially if the diet is calorie restricted to lose weight with little or no carbs.   

If so, what did you do to address this?

Thanks

I was on strict paleo diet for years. I looked good but my libido/sex drive almost vanished. And I'm an athletic man under 30. I also got some other health problems that was most likely related to this. I found out it was do to eating too few carbohydrates. I switched to a diet called "The Perfect Health Diet" which is basically paleo with some safe and healthy carb sources in limited amounts (mostly white rice and sweet potatoes). My sex drive came back in 14 days, and I sleep and perform better in general. Some people seem to be doing fine with low carb paleo eating, but a lot of folks also seem to experience problems like the one you mention. If you experience low sex drive and is generally healthy and not over 80 that means the diet is obviously not working for you, no matter how much good stuff you read about it online. You can read more about the diet here. They also wrote a book which is one of the best books on health I've ever read: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/the-diet/
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 12:25:52 PM by Peacefulwarrior »

sloof70

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #105 on: August 27, 2014, 05:19:09 PM »
I was on strict paleo diet for years. I looked good but my libido/sex drive almost vanished. And I'm an athletic man under 30. I also got some other health problems that was most likely related to this. I found out it was do to eating too few carbohydrates. I switched to a diet called "The Perfect Health Diet" which is basically paleo with some safe and healthy carb sources in limited amounts (mostly white rice and sweet potatoes). My sex drive came back in 14 days, and I sleep and perform better in general. Some people seem to be doing fine with low carb paleo eating, but a lot of folks also seem to experience problems like the one you mention. If you experience low sex drive and is generally healthy and not over 80 that means the diet is obviously not working for you, no matter how much good stuff you read about it online. You can read more about the diet here. They also wrote a book which is one of the best books on health I've ever read: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/the-diet/
To put a positive spin on it, we're all trying to stash lots of cash here, and wives/girlfriends/floozies/mistresses/hookers aren't cheap! Maybe we should all shun carbs, lose our drive to fornicate, and become a master race of wealthy, non-procreative layabouts.

Bob W

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #106 on: August 28, 2014, 12:40:05 PM »
Generally speaking I follow a low carb diet similar to Paleo (more like keto). Started over a year ago and dropped 40 in about 9 months. I could lose a few more, but I'm feeling fine now. It's more satisfying, easier, feels better, and my blood work is great. Session lager is my secret. And by eating fatty meats, and green veggies, groceries are pretty cheap.

Sounds very similar to my approach.  Would love to be down 40 in 9 months.

This question may be too personal but have you or any readers experienced drops in testosterone or libido after being on a paleo like program.   I see in the literature that this is pretty common and especially if the diet is calorie restricted to lose weight with little or no carbs.   

If so, what did you do to address this?

Thanks

I was on strict paleo diet for years. I looked good but my libido/sex drive almost vanished. And I'm an athletic man under 30. I also got some other health problems that was most likely related to this. I found out it was do to eating too few carbohydrates. I switched to a diet called "The Perfect Health Diet" which is basically paleo with some safe and healthy carb sources in limited amounts (mostly white rice and sweet potatoes). My sex drive came back in 14 days, and I sleep and perform better in general. Some people seem to be doing fine with low carb paleo eating, but a lot of folks also seem to experience problems like the one you mention. If you experience low sex drive and is generally healthy and not over 80 that means the diet is obviously not working for you, no matter how much good stuff you read about it online. You can read more about the diet here. They also wrote a book which is one of the best books on health I've ever read: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/the-diet/

Thanks for that reply and link.   I believe I have read the perfect health approach a few months ago.  I will reread.  For what it is worth,  I don't follow what may be considered "strict paleo"  I do avoid most GMO grains and focus on wheat.   I still carbo load with rice and potatoes and try to be aware of eating enough carbs.   My drive seems a little higher than when I started,  although it was a little low then.  And I seem to have some morning wood occasionally that I notice.   

So for now, I am  making good progress toward my weight goal while being aware of the potential pitfall of too low a carb.   I'm checking the perfecthealthdiet.com today!

Bob W

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #107 on: August 28, 2014, 12:58:56 PM »
I tried something very close to paleo about 2 years ago. I got terrible gout on that diet, due to all the meat (the purines in the meat caused my gout). I probably have a genetic predisposition for gout but all the same I would be careful if you have anyone in your family that suffers from it. After seeing 3 different doctors I was referred to a rheumatologist who helped me control the gout through diet alone (no gout since controlling for diet). I now diet using calorie restriction maintaining sensible carb/protein/fat proportions and all essential micro nutrients which works for me.

I'd be willing to bet it was excess fructose that was causing you gout problems.  Our ancestors ate rich, fatty meat and didn't get gout.

http://chriskresser.com/will-eating-a-paleo-diet-cause-gout

Actually I don't really think there is enough evidence to show that my ancestors ate what is called for in the paleo diet. I eat tons of fructose in fruit all the time and it doesn't cause me any gout whatsoever, but I have seen some new studies that show a possible fructose linkage, I would like to see more experiments before deriving any conclusions. I found the two biggest causes of gout episodes were alcohol and purine rich foods (meat, lentils etc.) which jives with medical consensus around the disease. However that said I was told not to cease eating meat because it is still good for me in recommended proportions by a Doctor who specializes in that area.

You're absolutely right. I find it immensely amusing that so many people think our ancestors ate a "low carb" diet1. At least one of the major theories about early human foraging is that it was mostly based on the consumption of tubers, with meat as an occasional supplement.  Modern human foragers are all over the place on the animal foods consumption spectrum: the most obvious thing about human foraging is that its about eating rich, complex, hard to extract calorie sources wherever they are found, and it is necessarily opportunistic, not ideal.

Also the thing about fructose is bizarre: we are the descendants of primarily fructivorous animals, one of whose main calorie sources is fructose. We have a beautiful, complex, specialized fructose digestion pathway that screams "adaptation for eating fructose".  The problem is there is no ideal food: all diets in ancient history involved massive tradeoffs between starvation and toxins or other digestive or health issues.  Even if eating meat turns out to have been our primary calorie source, this may have involved an adaptive tradeoff of the form "stay alive now, eat lots of (dense) calories from fat because by the time you die of heart disease your genes will already have been passed on". Not necessarily a tradeoff that modern humans should accept.

1. I realize that some Paleo-ers are more subtle and talk about grains and legumes as bad carbs, and maybe tubers are good. But how the hell your body tells the difference is beyond me. Both food sources give you complex starches; natural forms of both are loaded with toxins which generally require processing (modern grains and tubers have had this bred out of them).

TL;DR: Actual science about what is good to have in your diet FTW!!

Thanks for those ideas.

It's not a religion or belief system for me.  I merely reviewed some very positive studies and looked at lots of people who had amazing results from paleo like eating.   

There is probably a reason this style of eating is the most popular "diet" "trend"  the last few years.  I think it is because it works so good on so many levels.

So my main thing isn't to prove or disprove any science but to see personal positive results.  Yes,  it is working for me!

Mainly I avoid wheat like the plague and stick to a large variety of lots of veggies,  standard meat/fish portions and added fats such as olive oil.    I do eat some rice and potatoes to keep carbs up when the whim hits me.   

So far I can report --
I am satiated with this food palate
I don't have cravings
I don't count calories
I can skip meals without effort or remembering to eat (actually happens a bit)
I'm dropping fat
I feel pretty darn good
I'm not having weird side effects like insomnia
My craving for beer has diminished to the point I shun it
I can pass up bread, pasta, and most wheat products easily,  although my 7 year old son has been forcing me to have a nightly warm brownie and ice cream.  Apparently those aren't paleo approved! lol

I'll keep checking in here with my N1 reports as time passes.   I'm thinking about shooting for a Whole 30 sprint starting around Sep 9th.   Would love to have a 5-9 lb monthly fat drop if possible. 

Anyone up to joining me for a Whole 30 challenge starting in September, let me know.

Ambergris

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #108 on: August 28, 2014, 02:26:23 PM »
I tried something very close to paleo about 2 years ago. I got terrible gout on that diet, due to all the meat (the purines in the meat caused my gout). I probably have a genetic predisposition for gout but all the same I would be careful if you have anyone in your family that suffers from it. After seeing 3 different doctors I was referred to a rheumatologist who helped me control the gout through diet alone (no gout since controlling for diet). I now diet using calorie restriction maintaining sensible carb/protein/fat proportions and all essential micro nutrients which works for me.

I'd be willing to bet it was excess fructose that was causing you gout problems.  Our ancestors ate rich, fatty meat and didn't get gout.

http://chriskresser.com/will-eating-a-paleo-diet-cause-gout

Actually I don't really think there is enough evidence to show that my ancestors ate what is called for in the paleo diet. I eat tons of fructose in fruit all the time and it doesn't cause me any gout whatsoever, but I have seen some new studies that show a possible fructose linkage, I would like to see more experiments before deriving any conclusions. I found the two biggest causes of gout episodes were alcohol and purine rich foods (meat, lentils etc.) which jives with medical consensus around the disease. However that said I was told not to cease eating meat because it is still good for me in recommended proportions by a Doctor who specializes in that area.

You're absolutely right. I find it immensely amusing that so many people think our ancestors ate a "low carb" diet1. At least one of the major theories about early human foraging is that it was mostly based on the consumption of tubers, with meat as an occasional supplement.  Modern human foragers are all over the place on the animal foods consumption spectrum: the most obvious thing about human foraging is that its about eating rich, complex, hard to extract calorie sources wherever they are found, and it is necessarily opportunistic, not ideal.

Also the thing about fructose is bizarre: we are the descendants of primarily fructivorous animals, one of whose main calorie sources is fructose. We have a beautiful, complex, specialized fructose digestion pathway that screams "adaptation for eating fructose".  The problem is there is no ideal food: all diets in ancient history involved massive tradeoffs between starvation and toxins or other digestive or health issues.  Even if eating meat turns out to have been our primary calorie source, this may have involved an adaptive tradeoff of the form "stay alive now, eat lots of (dense) calories from fat because by the time you die of heart disease your genes will already have been passed on". Not necessarily a tradeoff that modern humans should accept.

1. I realize that some Paleo-ers are more subtle and talk about grains and legumes as bad carbs, and maybe tubers are good. But how the hell your body tells the difference is beyond me. Both food sources give you complex starches; natural forms of both are loaded with toxins which generally require processing (modern grains and tubers have had this bred out of them).

TL;DR: Actual science about what is good to have in your diet FTW!!

Thanks for those ideas.

It's not a religion or belief system for me.  I merely reviewed some very positive studies and looked at lots of people who had amazing results from paleo like eating.   

There is probably a reason this style of eating is the most popular "diet" "trend"  the last few years.  I think it is because it works so good on so many levels.

So my main thing isn't to prove or disprove any science but to see personal positive results.  Yes,  it is working for me!

Mainly I avoid wheat like the plague and stick to a large variety of lots of veggies,  standard meat/fish portions and added fats such as olive oil.    I do eat some rice and potatoes to keep carbs up when the whim hits me.   

So far I can report --
I am satiated with this food palate
I don't have cravings
I don't count calories
I can skip meals without effort or remembering to eat (actually happens a bit)
I'm dropping fat
I feel pretty darn good
I'm not having weird side effects like insomnia
My craving for beer has diminished to the point I shun it
I can pass up bread, pasta, and most wheat products easily,  although my 7 year old son has been forcing me to have a nightly warm brownie and ice cream.  Apparently those aren't paleo approved! lol

I'll keep checking in here with my N1 reports as time passes.   I'm thinking about shooting for a Whole 30 sprint starting around Sep 9th.   Would love to have a 5-9 lb monthly fat drop if possible. 

Anyone up to joining me for a Whole 30 challenge starting in September, let me know.

If it works for you, then that's great. No worries.

The only issue I have is with people who claim it "must" work or that it is the "ideal" diet because it's how our ancestors ate. They didn't, necessarily, and in fact, I'd be very surprised if humans in any environment ate any one way. Modern foragers, for example, range from about 20%-95% of calories from meat/fish (cited by some Paleo-ers as an average of 60%, of course, LOL).

Part of the issue here is defining "works" - for you, "works" means it helps you lose fat - that's great.  But any ancient diet must have been the opposite, since the primary issue for ancient people was not starving, not avoiding heart disease or building acres of toned muscle. :D

This is another part of the fructose wierdness. There's been this big hoo-hah about the possibility that fructose makes you gain weight, and by-passes your "fullness" signaling system. Of course, if you are an ancient primate, putting on weight was fantastic, and eating loads of fruit was probably necessary for getting enough calories into your diet.  That doesn't mean that fructose is "bad" and non-paleo (in the real sense of paleo) - it means it precisely is paleo, and that might be a reason to watch how much you get!

So anyway, it's everyone's right to choose whatever diet seems right to them, of course. I'm just saying that given the disconnect between what modern western people and ancient foragers need from their diets, I suggest not looking to the past to figure out what that diet should be. Current dietary science might give folks a better answer.

Enough paleo-anth nerdiness from over here.

Bob W

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #109 on: August 28, 2014, 02:46:59 PM »
Thanks Ambergis!

 I think that most of us can agree that super processed food is probably not an ideal diet component.  So "works for me" probably has a lot to do with avoiding processed food and adding lots of veggies and healthy oils.   I forgot to mention I also shun processed oils like Canola (didn't know there was a canola plant?) and vegetable oil which isn't even made from veggies but from super highly processed soy.   "Vegetable Oil" is probably easier to sell than "Super Chemically Processed Soybean Oil?"

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #110 on: August 28, 2014, 03:48:46 PM »
I forgot to mention I also shun processed oils like Canola (didn't know there was a canola plant?)
Smartass fail.

But seriously - I stay pretty far from that stuff too. I'm trying to figure out a neutral oil to use when I don't want coconut or olive oil and don't want to pay the big bucks.

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #111 on: August 28, 2014, 06:06:42 PM »
I'm trying to figure out a neutral oil to use when I don't want coconut or olive oil and don't want to pay the big bucks.

Try grapeseed.

Bob W

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #112 on: August 28, 2014, 07:21:48 PM »
I'm trying to figure out a neutral oil to use when I don't want coconut or olive oil and don't want to pay the big bucks.

Try grapeseed.
.               Olive.  Walmart extra virgin pretty cheap on a per calorie basis. 

Bob W

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #113 on: August 28, 2014, 07:39:35 PM »
Peaceful warrior.   I looked at the perfect health diet and like their interpretation of the paleo concept.  It is very close to my desired pattern.   Thanks

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #114 on: August 29, 2014, 06:14:56 AM »
I'm trying to figure out a neutral oil to use when I don't want coconut or olive oil and don't want to pay the big bucks.

Try grapeseed.
.               Olive.  Walmart extra virgin pretty cheap on a per calorie basis.
I've found myself really enjoying the avocado oil that Costco sells. It's high heat, which is nice, but mostly it has great flavor.

Bob W

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #115 on: August 29, 2014, 06:40:36 AM »
I'm trying to figure out a neutral oil to use when I don't want coconut or olive oil and don't want to pay the big bucks.

Try grapeseed.
.               Olive.  Walmart extra virgin pretty cheap on a per calorie basis.
I've found myself really enjoying the avocado oil that Costco sells. It's high heat, which is nice, but mostly it has great flavor.           Thanks for that tip.  Didn't know about that.

jordanread

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #116 on: August 29, 2014, 07:15:34 AM »
I'm trying to figure out a neutral oil to use when I don't want coconut or olive oil and don't want to pay the big bucks.

Try grapeseed.
.               Olive.  Walmart extra virgin pretty cheap on a per calorie basis.
I've found myself really enjoying the avocado oil that Costco sells. It's high heat, which is nice, but mostly it has great flavor.

Thanks for that tip.  Didn't know about that.

If you like browning your stuff, it's amazing. It's smoke point is > 400F. It has slightly more flavor than EVOO, so it works great as a dressing too. I'm not home right now, but I'm almost certain it's this particular brand, although I thought it was organic...

Bob W

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #117 on: August 29, 2014, 07:22:08 AM »
Love the high smoke point!

horsepoor

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Re: Paleo anyone?
« Reply #118 on: August 29, 2014, 05:33:44 PM »
I'm trying to figure out a neutral oil to use when I don't want coconut or olive oil and don't want to pay the big bucks.

Try grapeseed.
.               Olive.  Walmart extra virgin pretty cheap on a per calorie basis.
I've found myself really enjoying the avocado oil that Costco sells. It's high heat, which is nice, but mostly it has great flavor.

+1 on the avocado oil.  It is pretty neutral tasting, and has a better Omega 3:6 ratio than grapeseed.  $10 for a big bottle at CostCo, which lasts quite a while.

Also, it's really easy to make ghee and it is awesome for cooking.

NOT A FAN of the red palm oil.  Blech.