Author Topic: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show  (Read 29422 times)

EricEng

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2019, 01:48:07 PM »
This summer I talked to a Purdue professor who really liked what was happening there with the President in terms of how students/tuition was being handled. Too long the universities have had no accountability . . . I think this system puts some accountability for educating employable graduates on them.

What system exactly are you talking about?  How are students/tuition being handled differently at Purdue now?
It was in the post just prior.
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/student-debt/

Mostly says Perdue President froze tuition for a few years, cut vacation time, and just had a strict budget.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 01:50:43 PM by EricEng »

nereo

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2019, 02:04:08 PM »
This summer I talked to a Purdue professor who really liked what was happening there with the President in terms of how students/tuition was being handled. Too long the universities have had no accountability . . . I think this system puts some accountability for educating employable graduates on them.

What system exactly are you talking about?  How are students/tuition being handled differently at Purdue now?
It was in the post just prior.
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/student-debt/

Mostly says Perdue President froze tuition for a few years, cut vacation time, and just had a strict budget.
ah, thank you! 

WSUCoug1994

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2019, 02:14:56 PM »
This summer I talked to a Purdue professor who really liked what was happening there with the President in terms of how students/tuition was being handled. Too long the universities have had no accountability . . . I think this system puts some accountability for educating employable graduates on them.

What system exactly are you talking about?  How are students/tuition being handled differently at Purdue now?
It was in the post just prior.
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/student-debt/

Mostly says Perdue President froze tuition for a few years, cut vacation time, and just had a strict budget.
ah, thank you!

No read/listen to the end.  They wait to charge your tuition until after you graduate and make $40K a year and then take a percentage of your income to pay back the tuition costs.

phildonnia

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #53 on: August 01, 2019, 02:52:21 PM »
Owner of two restaurants calls in a panic over being $1MM in debt. She owes $400K in sales tax alone. Dave points out to her that she has been stealing the sales tax, and that she won't be able to discharge that via bankruptcy.

I think that might be true.  Seriously, don't mess with the sales tax, or the employee withholding.

phildonnia

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2019, 03:09:56 PM »
Always heard on DR never to consolidate debt. For this reason it took me FOREVER to take the credit cards at 27%, or whatever they were, and wash them away with a 5 year loan at 9%.

The result? My formerly $1,000 in payments are now a single $700 payment.

There's a reason they are called BABY STEPS. They are for those first phases. Not for when you mature.

DR is flexible on debt consolidation when it lowers the interest rate.  But he stresses "As long as you don't think you've solved anything."  and "as long it doesn't make you more comfortable with your debt.".

Since he advocates paying off debt rapidly, he correctly points out that the interest rate isn't a big deal over 12 or 18 months. 

Also, a lot of debt consolidation lowers payments by extending the term, resulting in more wasted money.

cowpuncher10

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2019, 08:57:21 AM »
@Zamboni @libertarian4321 @cowpuncher10 @nereo (and any others I missed) - please quit trying to turn this into a political thread. It would be most appreciated if you could continue that conversation in the Off Topic subforum.

Pretty sure we have been civil and it has been on topic...Not sure I understand your point here...

Proud Foot

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2019, 08:59:15 AM »
I haven't gotten to it yet (I listen to the podcasts the day after the show airs) but I saw he talked about the new college scandal yesterday. Labeled as a "Dave Rant" in the title. Should be interesting!!

Here is a forum thread about it if you didn't know what the new scandal was.

NorthernBlitz

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2019, 12:18:45 PM »
This summer I talked to a Purdue professor who really liked what was happening there with the President in terms of how students/tuition was being handled. Too long the universities have had no accountability . . . I think this system puts some accountability for educating employable graduates on them.

What system exactly are you talking about?  How are students/tuition being handled differently at Purdue now?
It was in the post just prior.
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/student-debt/

Mostly says Perdue President froze tuition for a few years, cut vacation time, and just had a strict budget.
ah, thank you!

No read/listen to the end.  They wait to charge your tuition until after you graduate and make $40K a year and then take a percentage of your income to pay back the tuition costs.

Not sure how it works in practice, but I kind of like the idea of University's buying stake in their graduates. It provides an incentive to have programs that who's administrative costs don't outweigh the future economic benefit of the students they're teaching.

If that's how Universities generate revenue, then there's less incentive for ballooning salaries at high level positions (and the creation of more high level positions) or to create new programs where students pay large tuition bills but don't recoup their investment on average.

A Fella from Stella

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2019, 01:22:43 PM »
@Zamboni @libertarian4321 @cowpuncher10 @nereo (and any others I missed) - please quit trying to turn this into a political thread. It would be most appreciated if you could continue that conversation in the Off Topic subforum.

Pretty sure we have been civil and it has been on topic...Not sure I understand your point here...

Prob just wanting to talk about "heard on DR show"

Example: I was listening to DR and heard him fart. It was wet sounding. Then I realized it was just me. In the background, the words "how much do you owe on your car?" were said.

Davnasty

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2019, 02:06:23 PM »
@Zamboni @libertarian4321 @cowpuncher10 @nereo (and any others I missed) - please quit trying to turn this into a political thread. It would be most appreciated if you could continue that conversation in the Off Topic subforum.

Pretty sure we have been civil and it has been on topic...Not sure I understand your point here...

Prob just wanting to talk about "heard on DR show"

Example: I was listening to DR and heard him fart. It was wet sounding. Then I realized it was just me. In the background, the words "how much do you owe on your car?" were said.

Ha, that must have been pretty funny...until it was sad.

pmac

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2019, 03:12:03 PM »
Are the mutual funds he recommends American Funds?

Claims his funds beat the market consistently, and "nobody became a millionaire worrying about fees"

Seriously!

HPstache

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2019, 09:07:02 PM »
Are the mutual funds he recommends American Funds?

Claims his funds beat the market consistently, and "nobody became a millionaire worrying about fees"

Seriously!

I have listened to the show... a lot.  I have never heard him say that last quote.   He says it all the time about credit card rewards but not mutual fund fees.

Chris Pascale

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #62 on: August 02, 2019, 11:13:41 PM »
Are the mutual funds he recommends American Funds?

Claims his funds beat the market consistently, and "nobody became a millionaire worrying about fees"

Seriously!

I have listened to the show... a lot.  I have never heard him say that last quote.   He says it all the time about credit card rewards but not mutual fund fees.

Funny you say that, because a friend recently said he didn't like that Dave advises not to invest in the Thrift Savings Plan. I said, "I've listened to an embarrassing amount of Dave Ramsey, and have specifically heard him recommend a particular asset allocation, as well as to avoid the age-based allocation plan."

Dave will say to stay out of the G fund, but not to stay out of the TSP.

Gail2000

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #63 on: August 03, 2019, 02:09:02 AM »
A woman called in yesterday and said she had a family of four and her husband is disabled (no mention of nature of disability). She had quit her 85k/year corporate job because she needed time to find her mission that God needed her to go do. She reassured Dave that she had applied for food stamps.

So Dave, after picking his jaw up off the floor as all of us had to do, replied with his fatherly voice “ I know you will be successful with you’re mission when you find it. You’re articulate. You have energy. You made 85k, so society has deemed you valuable as that is a good income (not exact wording but not far). But you need an income.” She was so sure she was doing ok because she applied for food stamps. I think he got to her though.We hope in any case.

I am guessing she had a burn out. It sounds like a lot was on her plate.


Zamboni

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #64 on: August 03, 2019, 11:34:07 AM »
Yes, I have heard Dave say to avoid any investment where other people make the asset allocation and purchasing decisions for you. He said this specifically for 529's. But then he turns around and constantly recommends to "put the money in good mutual funds." Umm, quite a bit of hypocrisy there, because the ENTIRE point of the actively managed mutual funds he praises is that another person (ideally a more stock savvy person than you are) makes the buy/sell/asset allocation decisions.

It's weird that he doesn't like the aged-based 529's and retirement funds. Lots of research shows that average Joe does better in returns on these than in other investing situations. Has anyone heard his rationale for this stance?

Nate79

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #65 on: August 03, 2019, 07:34:40 PM »
Yes, I have heard Dave say to avoid any investment where other people make the asset allocation and purchasing decisions for you. He said this specifically for 529's. But then he turns around and constantly recommends to "put the money in good mutual funds." Umm, quite a bit of hypocrisy there, because the ENTIRE point of the actively managed mutual funds he praises is that another person (ideally a more stock savvy person than you are) makes the buy/sell/asset allocation decisions.

It's weird that he doesn't like the aged-based 529's and retirement funds. Lots of research shows that average Joe does better in returns on these than in other investing situations. Has anyone heard his rationale for this stance?
Dave Ramsey does not believe in investing in bonds, he is 100% stocks (though a retired investor who wants a little more conservative portfolio he is ok with balanced funds go figure). So he can't believe in target date or age based funds because they are opposite his belief of 100% stock allocation.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Channel-Z

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #66 on: August 04, 2019, 07:00:04 PM »
I remember listening to Ramsey a couple of times on long road trips in rural places (country music, talk radio, preachers). I found several callers more depressing than the country music. But I also remember a couple of show-offs who asked for advice on tackling, say, $30,000 in student loans, on a $120,000 salary.

avrex

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #67 on: August 04, 2019, 07:13:51 PM »
Quote
overheard on the Dave Ramsey show

Nothing!

As soon as I realized that there was a "Ramsey Media Channel" on my SiriusXM radio in the car, I quickly punched

<Next Station>

nereo

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #68 on: August 05, 2019, 04:56:58 AM »
I remember listening to Ramsey a couple of times on long road trips in rural places (country music, talk radio, preachers). I found several callers more depressing than the country music. But I also remember a couple of show-offs who asked for advice on tackling, say, $30,000 in student loans, on a $120,000 salary.

This is/was quite common around here, too.  I can't count the number of posters who brought in six-figures after taxes and wanted advice on paying down debt because (shocker) despire high salaries they were spending more than they earned. Upon inspection every one was wasting money left and right in every category. At least a few of these posters have stuck around and gone from 5-figure (and sometimes 6-figure) debt loads to putting away several thousand each month.  The biggest comment from them is how making these sensible adjustments didn't decrease their quality of life, and now they are much happier, healthier and less stressed.   It makes me smile, even if it's low-hanging fruit and obvious to the rest of us.

talltexan

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #69 on: August 05, 2019, 12:27:34 PM »
Owner of two restaurants calls in a panic over being $1MM in debt. She owes $400K in sales tax alone. Dave points out to her that she has been stealing the sales tax, and that she won't be able to discharge that via bankruptcy.

I think that might be true.  Seriously, don't mess with the sales tax, or the employee withholding.

I heard that call. Business- and real estate callers have numbers that sound cartoonish to the rest of us.

There don't seem to be a lot of people calling in with INSANE 2/2 condos in bay area and $1 million + mortgages either.

profnot

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #70 on: August 09, 2019, 07:46:53 PM »
Dave Ramsey's advice regarding
get out of debt, stay out of debt
is terrific.

His investment advice is pretty lame.

nereo

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #71 on: August 10, 2019, 11:51:52 AM »
Dave Ramsey's advice regarding
get out of debt, stay out of debt
is terrific.

Is it?  For those that can't manage debt it's good advice, but for those who can he takes it into some financially irresponsible territory, like with low-rate, long-term mortgages, or his recommendation to "pay cash" for a lot of large ticket items that fiscally responsible people probably should be financing.

ender

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #72 on: August 10, 2019, 12:14:09 PM »
Dave Ramsey's advice regarding
get out of debt, stay out of debt
is terrific.

Is it?  For those that can't manage debt it's good advice, but for those who can he takes it into some financially irresponsible territory, like with low-rate, long-term mortgages, or his recommendation to "pay cash" for a lot of large ticket items that fiscally responsible people probably should be financing.

The overwhelming majority of the population would be better off following Dave's advice in every single regard.

Is it optimal? No. But the majority of people getting advice from Dave (either on the show or through his FPU/book empire) are in positions where his advice is objectively better than their current state.

I remember listening to Ramsey a couple of times on long road trips in rural places (country music, talk radio, preachers). I found several callers more depressing than the country music. But I also remember a couple of show-offs who asked for advice on tackling, say, $30,000 in student loans, on a $120,000 salary.

You can live above your means at any income level, whether $120k, $1000k, or $10k.

englishteacheralex

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #73 on: August 10, 2019, 01:55:51 PM »
Boy howdy the recent episode with the lady whose husband is a helicopter pilot and whose in-laws are insane. Where to begin? I live for Ramsey calls like that one. Popcorn, please.

ender

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #74 on: August 10, 2019, 08:49:45 PM »
Boy howdy the recent episode with the lady whose husband is a helicopter pilot and whose in-laws are insane. Where to begin? I live for Ramsey calls like that one. Popcorn, please.

Heh I thought about posting that too - was thinking of some of the crazy relative threads here... not sure I've read much more completely bonkers than that one!

marty998

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #75 on: August 10, 2019, 10:08:29 PM »
Boy howdy the recent episode with the lady whose husband is a helicopter pilot and whose in-laws are insane. Where to begin? I live for Ramsey calls like that one. Popcorn, please.

Heh I thought about posting that too - was thinking of some of the crazy relative threads here... not sure I've read much more completely bonkers than that one!

Please begin at the start :)

Some of us in other lands don't get to enjoy this!

ender

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #76 on: August 10, 2019, 11:15:01 PM »
Boy howdy the recent episode with the lady whose husband is a helicopter pilot and whose in-laws are insane. Where to begin? I live for Ramsey calls like that one. Popcorn, please.

Heh I thought about posting that too - was thinking of some of the crazy relative threads here... not sure I've read much more completely bonkers than that one!

Please begin at the start :)

Some of us in other lands don't get to enjoy this!

the tldr is:

Her husband is a pilot and they bought a helicopter. Insane relative thinks "hey my kiddo should do that too" and throws them in expensive school for it, they fail. Then insane relative decides that the caller's helicopter should be used by them and basically emotionally blackmails/manipulates caller's husband into changing his mind and wanting to loan it. Caller is only sane person and calls Dave to ask what to do.

Dave basically says that her inlaws are completely and utterly insane. But the poor OP has to deal with it still - her inlaws are emotionally blackmailing her and her husband to force them to let their spoiled brat use their HELICOPTER.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #77 on: August 10, 2019, 11:56:26 PM »
...her inlaws are emotionally blackmailing her and her husband to force them to let their spoiled brat use their HELICOPTER.

Because what could possibly go wrong by allowing a spoiled brat who failed helicopter school to borrow your helicopter?

englishteacheralex

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #78 on: August 11, 2019, 12:50:07 AM »
Hey nice TLDR. I was too lazy and tired from a rough work week to summarize. Bravo.

solon

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #79 on: August 11, 2019, 06:16:44 AM »
I wouldn't mind hearing it myself. Could someone post a link?

HPstache

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #80 on: August 11, 2019, 10:57:44 AM »
I wouldn't mind hearing it myself. Could someone post a link?

https://www.daveramsey.com/show/archives/2019-08-09?mode=listen

Hour 3, 30:00 into the podcast, caller from Chicago

solon

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #81 on: August 11, 2019, 11:24:37 AM »
I wouldn't mind hearing it myself. Could someone post a link?

https://www.daveramsey.com/show/archives/2019-08-09?mode=listen

Hour 3, 30:00 into the podcast, caller from Chicago

Whoa! That was jaw-dropping! What a train wreck.

Just Joe

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #82 on: August 11, 2019, 06:50:31 PM »
Who loans out a helicopter? The liability is unimaginable. Sounds to me like the cousin is not a licensed pilot?

Caller seemed so overwhelmed by simple reason. 

nancy33

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #83 on: August 11, 2019, 11:24:06 PM »
Thank u for the link my husband and I are dying laughing listened to the helicopter call 😊

Dragonswan

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #84 on: August 12, 2019, 12:14:59 PM »
There has to be a good helicopter parent joke in here.  Oh wait, that is the joke.

talltexan

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #85 on: August 12, 2019, 01:22:05 PM »
Alright, so I plugged in at the office to listen to this call.

Typing this in real time as I hear about it. Caller starts out by saying that husband is doing really well, and "his parents funded that." Starts describing the aunt, "you name it, she did it..." Dave attempts to clarify who is the problem, and the caller seems to bounce all over the place.

Again, all of this was initially funded by the in-laws.

I think Dave really cuts through to the problem: husband isn't setting healthy boundaries, there's clearly an issue within his family about understanding property rights.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #86 on: August 13, 2019, 08:47:03 AM »
Are the mutual funds he recommends American Funds?

Claims his funds beat the market consistently, and "nobody became a millionaire worrying about fees"

Seriously!

I have listened to the show... a lot.  I have never heard him say that last quote.   He says it all the time about credit card rewards but not mutual fund fees.

Funny you say that, because a friend recently said he didn't like that Dave advises not to invest in the Thrift Savings Plan. I said, "I've listened to an embarrassing amount of Dave Ramsey, and have specifically heard him recommend a particular asset allocation, as well as to avoid the age-based allocation plan."

Dave will say to stay out of the G fund, but not to stay out of the TSP.

Dave will tell someone leaving the military or the federal government to move out of TSP immediately.

DadJokes

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #87 on: August 13, 2019, 08:53:47 AM »

Dave will tell someone leaving the military or the federal government to move out of TSP immediately.

Most financial advisers recommend that you roll your company 401k into an IRA when you leave that company. That advice is not necessarily bad. Now, encouraging those people to go to expensive financial planners and invest in expensive actively managed funds is a different story.

talltexan

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #88 on: August 14, 2019, 11:15:52 AM »
I do not invest according to Dave Ramsey's recommended allocations. I think it's important to remember that he only recommends those to people who are completely out-of-debt, and so can take on more units of risk.

DadJokes

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #89 on: August 16, 2019, 04:39:12 PM »
I saw these posted in a group on FB today. It seemed obvious that the ELP program was a scam, but seeing how they shake down businesses for money and don’t even vet them before sending listeners their way is very shady practice.

Travis

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #90 on: August 16, 2019, 07:44:01 PM »
Dave Ramsey's advice regarding
get out of debt, stay out of debt
is terrific.

Is it?  For those that can't manage debt it's good advice, but for those who can he takes it into some financially irresponsible territory, like with low-rate, long-term mortgages, or his recommendation to "pay cash" for a lot of large ticket items that fiscally responsible people probably should be financing.

Fiscally responsible people don't need his advice.

I saw these posted in a group on FB today. It seemed obvious that the ELP program was a scam, but seeing how they shake down businesses for money and don’t even vet them before sending listeners their way is very shady practice.

Fiscally irresponsible people following his steps and advice who have grown to trust him shouldn't be getting these recommendations from him either.

hdatontodo

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #91 on: August 17, 2019, 07:54:50 AM »
Most financial advisers recommend that you roll your company 401k into an IRA when you leave that company. ....

Being over age 55, I have been keeping my 401K in the most recent company I work for due to the 401K Age 55 Rule (in case I got laid off before 59-1/2 and didn't want to be penalized for withdrawals.)


A Fella from Stella

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #92 on: August 20, 2019, 11:12:36 AM »
Someone called into Dave Ramsey saying that a cousin was stealing medication and money from grandma. Dave said "call the police," then said it again, then again, and then even said it again. Caller wanted to address other family things.

Zamboni

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #93 on: August 21, 2019, 02:42:54 AM »
He got that one right, and if someone is calling Dave instead of the police for something like that, then I agree he should repeat "call the police" over and over. Call back after you've called the police if you want to carry on about peripheral family matters.

ecchastang

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #94 on: August 21, 2019, 09:46:27 AM »
DR can be good for a lot of people that are loaded with high interest debt and need to start cutting back their spending and getting control of their finances.  It is a decent first step, but then people tend to outgrow DR advice and need to move on to bigger and better ideas.

rob in cal

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #95 on: August 22, 2019, 10:54:46 AM »
  Good millionaire theme hour last week. My favorite was the guy who has bought lots of land over the years, now worth about 7 million total. Of course DR didn't mention the fact that he could easily quit work if he wanted to. Caller was in his fifties had a good job in sales. But still, unless you really enjoy your job, at 7 million that's awfully tempting to quit in my book.
  Oh, and the factory worker, high school drop out retired guy from Ohio, who was a factory supervisor at some point in his career, but basically a blue collar type guy, now retired in his 70's with 3 million or so. Don't remember if his wife had a career, but if it was, it was also pretty modest.

LaineyAZ

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #96 on: August 24, 2019, 08:29:18 AM »
Occasionally I catch DR on the car radio while I'm out and about.  Recently he added a snide remark about "left-wing socialists" who, I'm paraphrasing, don't seem to believe you can accumulate wealth and/or don't think you (individual you) should be able to retain all of the wealth you personally built.

Made me wonder how much of a political influence DR is?

talltexan

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #97 on: August 26, 2019, 08:53:30 AM »
I've listened to a lot of DR, and it's impossible not to notice that Dave is pretty deferential to people who have a ton of real estate debt and a net worth of $3 million or more.

Which is about what his peak NW was before is bankruptcy in the 1980's.

nereo

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #98 on: August 26, 2019, 09:07:07 AM »
I've listened to a lot of DR, and it's impossible not to notice that Dave is pretty deferential to people who have a ton of real estate debt and a net worth of $3 million or more.

I got brow-beaten by the DR forum for not wanting to pay off a subsidized (i.e. 0% interest) student loan, while many of those arguing feverishly against holding any debt were leveraged to the hilt with rental properties. "but that's income" they said...

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Re: overheard on the Dave Ramsey show
« Reply #99 on: August 26, 2019, 02:51:07 PM »
I've listened to a lot of DR, and it's impossible not to notice that Dave is pretty deferential to people who have a ton of real estate debt and a net worth of $3 million or more.

I got brow-beaten by the DR forum for not wanting to pay off a subsidized (i.e. 0% interest) student loan, while many of those arguing feverishly against holding any debt were leveraged to the hilt with rental properties. "but that's income" they said...

Well, they are right.  It is income.

Until it's not.  :)

Which, if I recall, is how Ramsey lost his first fortune...

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!