Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?

[DreamFIRE]

I would suggest that any one who knows they don't want kids to get sterilized. 

Most breeders should be be sterilized also.  Many of the rejects are the ones having kids, putting the burden on the rest of society.  Just look around.  I'm not referring to anyone reading this forum of course.

[Miss Piggy]

No kids here.

A friend once asked me "Was not having kids your choice or God's choice for you?" I'm not religious, but I knew what she meant. She was asking whether we didn't have kids because we were not biologically able to, or if we just made the decision not to. The question did not feel at all inappropriate coming from her; she has four kids she adores, so she was just exploring the ways other people think and make decisions about the topic.

I told her God and I (and my husband) agreed on the issue.

I have absolutely zero maternal urges or instinct. Never have. And I agree with the other posters who have said something to the effect of "You should REALLY want kids if you decide to have them." I never really felt that sense of "want."

[Undecided]

No kids here.

A friend once asked me "Was not having kids your choice or God's choice for you?" I'm not religious, but I knew what she meant. She was asking whether we didn't have kids because we were not biologically able to, or if we just made the decision not to. The question did not feel at all inappropriate coming from her; she has four kids she adores, so she was just exploring the ways other people think and make decisions about the topic.

I told her God and I (and my husband) agreed on the issue.

I have absolutely zero maternal urges or instinct. Never have. And I agree with the other posters who have said something to the effect of "You should REALLY want kids if you decide to have them." I never really felt that sense of "want."

Only people who really want kids should have them, but nobody should think that just really wanting them is enough to have them.

[badassprof]

50 is around the corner for me. My spouse and I got together late in life and while we did want children, it wasn’t in the cards for us. I suppose adoption was an option, but my then we were exhausted by the process and didn’t have the desire to start that. Looking back now, I can’t say we wouldn’t have been happy with kids, but we are not happy without. We have been able to travel and enjoy our rewarding but demanding careers in a way that we probably wouldn’t have otherwise.

About regrets. I remember once my grandmother saying it is never possible to live a life without regrets. One choice may close the door to another. The  key is to make sure the regrets are worthwhile. When someone asks me (a woman) if I regret not having kids, I ask them: do you regret not living in Rome for a year or writing theee books? The point is we all make choices and they all are good if we embrace then and our lives.

[Mezzie]

Someone asked above about the difficulty getting tubes tied. I was denied until I got married, and then it took three years of arguing with hesitant doctors to finally get it done. It was a really frustrating process.

[fsa]

I'm a woman in my forties and I have never wanted children of my own. I've been a preschool teacher for my entire career and I love kids... I also love saying goodbye to them at the end of the school day and handing them back to their parents :) 

At one point in my mid thirties I thought I should freeze my eggs or something, just in case I changed my mind about the whole baby thing one day.  However, with every passing year I am more and more certain of my decision to stay childless. Zero regrets so far.

[gerardc]

My point was that he didn't apparently want the life and responsibility of being a parent, but would do it (at least get spouse pregnant and financially support her and kids) if she did the majority of the care giving and child raising and he can just go work and play.

I was just saying that sometimes s hit happens and he might find himself alone as both the financial provider AND only parent (or possibly caring for a sick spouse and/or sick kid(s) as well long term) and would he be OK with that.  For those of us who grew up in one parent/divorced household its a fuck-ton of work for the single parent. Even if you get full time 24/7 care for the kids with a live-in nanny, I would imagine most kids will still need some parental care and love and time.

I agree that stuff happens, but using an example of a spousal death as a reason to avoid kids is off the mark. Not every calamity is kid centric, lots of stuff sucks regardless. You could have made the exact same arguments for remaining single; what if you get divorced? what if they get sick? what if they die and leave you wracked with grief? Is that easier for you than it is for me, I doubt it, I imagine your pain would be equally large.

Life insurance or long term diability insurance is readily available and can be the primary financial provider in the case of death or illness. If I die or become diagnosed with a terminal disease today, my spouse doesn't become the main provider for our family, the insurance company will be.

If you feel the OP needs to think about your questions, I agree with you. I have also thought through the answers in my situation and feel they are valid responses. How would you recommend dealing with each of those situations? I think you should go a step farther and answer your questions as well, how would you handle a sick spouse, are you prepared?

Attempting to illicit a fear response to avoid kids is heavy handed. You could do the same for making the case of remaining single, an equally valid way of living.

I was not intending to illicit a fear response in @gerardc (not OP) but a responsibility response. He said " the little fuckers wont hold me back [from living his dream life of no or little parental responsibility the way he wants] for 18 years" (paraphrasing a bit) and I was just saying that they may if something happens to his SO or she chooses a different life path. So if his only reason for choosing to have kids is to appease his SO he needs to consider he may end up in a full time parental caregiver roll.

In the off chance I become the only parent, it should be fine. I only want 1-2 kids anyway, and I'm flexible with what happens. I also wouldn't get married. I'm mostly FIRE so if my GF walks or tries to pull a fast one, I should be able to handle my part of the child care without too many repercussions.

As a result of the tough love approach, she's made forward progress: she's been actually working and holding down a full-time job, which was something she refused to do while she lived with me. She's also learning to live within her means instead of spending like a Kardashian and then demanding that everyone else around her fork out money for her necessities. She's renting a room from a relative who is struggling with an addiction and now understands the value of a drama-free household.

I still think less parental supervision would be beneficial. Kids these days mature so late in life, and only when they need to (during their twenties, careers taking off in their 30s), i.e. only when they're not backed by their parents anymore. Why delay this? Why not getting them take responsibility much earlier in life? This whole pampering from 0-18 is wasted time.

Of course, it's a society problem. The law gives kids all the rights in the world, so they abuse it. As a parent, you can't do anything against this abuse, as demonstrated by the story above. It's ridiculous.

[limeandpepper]

I'm not qualified to answer the OP's question as someone who is still at an age where I can have a kid if I want, but...

I don't know about the actual numbers, but I remember a number of years back when I found myself in a pickle re: having kids/not having kids, I discovered a website that was pages and pages of confessions from people who greatly regretted having kids. It was horrifying, heart-wrenching, and sobering. There are many out who regret having them if that website was any indication.

I’ve seen those before, and they are heartbreaking. For someone who thinks they don’t want kids, I’d imagine later regret about not having them would be far easier to handle (and less damaging) than regret about having them. Kids tend to know when they aren’t wanted.

Yep, this. I think I might maybe feel a bit of wistfulness about not having kids, but as someone who has never felt passionately about it, it would be more of a "it could be nice I guess, except I really don't want to do the work of childrearing lol" which is way more manageable than how trapped I'd feel if I have kids and regretted the loss of my freedom and was just counting down the days till they can be independent... and that's if you're lucky. I used to work in a restaurant and often on Sundays there was this old guy who would come in with his physically and mentally impaired adult daughter. He has to support her when she walks, he has to feed her before eating his own meal. She can maybe speak just a few words with great difficulty, so it's not as if you could at least explore the joy of conversation together. I know the risk of that is tiny, but. I read a Reddit thread once about people who are in situations like that: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/sl93q/get_out_the_throwaways_dear_parents_of_disabled/

People who really want to have kids are willing to take that risk. I'm not curious enough about the experience to take that risk.

[Dicey]

@TheGrimSqueaker: Wow, what an incredible story! I am so sorry for what you have been through. I am in awe of all you have dealt with. Beyond that, words utterly fail me...

[dude]

FWIW, I don't know if I qualify since I turned in my childfree card when I adopted a teenager out of foster care, but I can tell you for certain that no matter how much you love a kid it's still a massive sacrifice.

Becoming a parent, for me, turned out to be a net loss physically, emotionally, socially, and financially. Prior to finalization there were a few moments of shared fun and laughter in between the drama and the mystery illnesses. She did make an effort to succeed in school and not be abusive. There was no up-side after finalization because her behavior changed radically to the point where she became not just financially abusive but verbally, physically, and emotionally abusive. What we ended up with, thanks to a phenomenon called Reactive Attachment Disorder, is a one-sided bond. I love the kid with all my heart, but she behaves although she hates my guts and regards me as nothing more than someone to be used and manipulated for profit. Although she occasionally makes mouth noises to the contrary when she wants something out of me, after finalization she turned into an epic drama machine out of a badly written Lifeline movie. Nothing I did was ever good enough, she trashed pretty much everything she was given, and really she would have been far better off in an institutional setting. Her behavior problems made her ineducable in a school setting even with Special Ed.

A few days after she turned 18, after several months of gallivanting, blatant disobedience, and routine runaway behavior and emotional abuse that was deliberately enabled by her lowlife friends and her bio-family, my daughter finally moved out for good. She threw a gigantic tantrum when I asked her to do some housework for the gas money she wanted, and she decided to move out for good. I helped her do it and saw to it she had all her belongings, title to a car that was in good running order, her furniture which had been new less than 3 years before (but which she'd trashed), and the last of the college savings I'd set aside for her that she hadn't managed to steal. Naturally she blew through all the money in a few weeks. When the money ran out, so did her lowlife friends, boyfriend, and bio-family.

She's asked twice to move back home, but I haven't allowed her to do so. It took several weeks to repair the holes she'd pounded into the walls, the carpet she'd trashed, the doors she'd bashed holes into or ripped the jambs out of the wall, and the rest of what she'd done to my home with her violent tantrums and overall refusal to clean up after herself due to her commitment to pig-culture. I simply can't afford to re-replace the things she broke, gave away to lowlifes (why were my spoons always gone?) or damaged permanently because she couldn't be bothered to come home when I was there and ask how to use things like the laundry rack, so stomping on it and smashing part of it seemed like a better idea. If I let her move back in, all that would happen is that she'd bash her way through the repairs I made to my home while shrieking at me, throwing things at me, hitting me, cussing me out, disappearing for days at a time, having another pregnancy scare, dropping out of even more high schools because three wasn't enough, and lying to people about how badly I supposedly treat her so that I'd be fending off accusations of abuse and neglect all over again. I can't deal with the daily interruptions at work or with being woken up at 2 AM on a work night by her standing over me in my bedroom, demanding to use my phone. She refuses to address the behaviors that are consistent with a galloping personality disorder or full-on mental illness, so allowing her a continued entitlement to my home just doesn't seem wise. I do help her by providing for her medical insurance and paying her medical expenses such as her wisdom tooth removal in January, and I've bought her some toiletries last time we were at the drugstore when she needed me for a co-pay on a prescription. Other than that, I haven't seen her.

As a result of the tough love approach, she's made forward progress: she's been actually working and holding down a full-time job, which was something she refused to do while she lived with me. She's also learning to live within her means instead of spending like a Kardashian and then demanding that everyone else around her fork out money for her necessities. She's renting a room from a relative who is struggling with an addiction and now understands the value of a drama-free household.

Initially my parents were thrilled about getting a grandchild, but my daughter has treated both of them with such disrespect that they no longer acknowledge her existence. It kind of sucks because she was in a position to inherit millions: all she had to do was be halfway decent to people. From my perspective the only good things to come out of this adoption have been my niece (one of my daughter's cousins, whose parents are deceased, is going to college and is a regular part of my life) and the Venomous Spaz Beast. All the positive emotions I thought I might have experienced through parenthood have come to me as a direct result of the VSB. Had I known dogs were so amazing, I'd have skipped the whole adoption thing and gone straight to the Chihuahua.

I cannot legally reverse the decision to adopt my daughter however now that she's legally an adult I am no longer required to tolerate her abuse and can keep enough distance between her and me to ensure that such interactions we have are mostly positive. Tough love is actually working: she's maturing and doing some of the things she should have been doing for years, such as working and putting a lid on her temper.

If you've never been physically attacked in your own living room or had to completely renovate a third of your house due to massive damage by a violent mentally ill person who has the legal right to enter your home at any time, you have no idea what you're missing.  You can be as happy, engaged, well prepared, and proactive as you want, and you will still be treated (by the kid, the system, and all the flying monkeys) as something to be scraped off the bottom of one's shoe.  Any childfree people out there who are being swayed by the notion that becoming parents, particularly by adopting out of foster care... DON'T FUCKING DO IT!!!

The only foster care adoptions that are successful are the ones that come naturally out of the fostering process, when the kid and the foster family click, the kid actually likes and cares for the foster family and wants to be part of the family, and parental rights are terminated. If you're into fostering as a lifestyle (and I know dozens of people who are), then yes, sometimes you'll get to keep the kid for yourself and it will be good. Otherwise, it's kind of like reaching into a garbage disposal when it's running because you heard a rumor that someone dropped a diamond ring down there. I'm still recovering from the cluster fuck abomination that my adoption turned out to be. Sickeningly, I still love my daughter, enjoy her company when she's not throwing a tantrum or acting like a manipulative velociraptor, and want her to succeed.

HOLY. SHIT. Wow. That was a very sobering post.  Thank you for your honesty and sharing it here. My wife and I discussed fostering/adopting a foster kid (as a way to address my concerns about being an old dad -- if we adopted a kid who was 6 - 8, it would be like having had a kid at 40 instead of nearly 50), and after researching it quite a bit, I just came away with the impression that the vast majority of these kids are just too damaged to live normal lives (your reaching into the garbage disposal analogy(!)), and I was honest enough with myself to say that I didn't want the burden of trying to rehabilitate a damaged human being. It's an honorable thing for one who is so inclined to do, but I wasn't that person. I feel terrible for these kids, but I had no desire to beat my head against a brick wall for a decade or more. Not worth it to me.

[Nickyd£g]

47 years old, single and child free by choice. I knew from around the age of 12 I didn't want children, and have zero regrets, other than being unable to find a partner who didn't want or have children (yet!).

I grew up in a large extended family, and as virtually the only girl was expected to babysit my brother and cousins. I found that children are, on the most part, annoying, dirty, repetitive, destructive and exhausting (they can also be cute and funny occasionally). Plus, my mother and her mother were definitely not maternal, so I never felt like I wanted to bring a child in to this world on the off chance some mysterious maternal glow would kick in.

My brother has three of his own, and is stepdad to another three, and loves it. I always joke he got my maternal genes. Frankly, I don't even really enjoy spending time with them either, and am always glad to get back to my tidy, quiet little flat. I have dated guys with kids - one had a teenager who barely spoke and did his own thing, the other had two younger boys he saw regularly but acknowledged to me he found it boring.  Most of my friends have kids, one who has three loves it, but another - who tried for years to conceive - has said that while she adores her son it has been much more challenging for her than she ever thought it would be, and has impacted greatly on her life and relationship with her husband.

I never really had any negative reactions to being child free, most people were curious but they don't even ask now I'm a bit older. I think I'm essentially pretty selfish, and that's why I am on the path to FIRE - it enables me to do what the fuck I want, when I want. I enjoy sleeping, and reading, and Yoga, and travelling on my own and with friends. I like spending money on books or eating out sometimes or saving it all. I have some regrets but not having kids is definitely not one of them.

[mrsnamemustache]

I've said it on other posts on this perennially popular MMM forum topic, but I strongly believe, contrary to many comments here, ambivalence or uncertainty about having a child is not an indicator of how much you will like being a parent or how good you will be at it. In fact, I think those with a lot of uncertainty sometimes like it more than others because prior to kids they probably were hyper-aware of all the downsides of parenting and less aware of all the upsides. If you are 100% certain you would hate being a parent, that is different, but my observations and personal experience tell me that you can be deeply unsure going in to it and yet find it to be the best decision of your life. Since this is based on my experience and not data, I could be wrong, but I think it is an important counter-perspective to idea that "you should only have kids if you are 100% sure." I think most people who choose to become parents are not 100% sure going in to the decision, and only a tiny portion report anything like regret.

Someone in another post shared actual data about regret with having/not having a child that was really interesting, but I can't find it (and I haven't read all of this post so maybe it appears here too).

[2Cent]

I feel a bit sad about the whole re-branding of not having kids as being "child free" or even calling people with kids breeders. It's like a single guy calling himself wife free and going on about how happy he is not to have to put up with a woman in his life. Especially if he never had a serious relationship. Or like someone who proudly decides to close the family business that has been running for generations because they want to use the money for having fun.

I am no one to judge their choice, but it feels like a waste. Especially if the people are very capable and smart and just don't want to impede their parties and holidays. Birth rates of educated people are well bellow the replacement rate. The main reason the world is getting too full is people in Africa are having 6 kids on average. From 2030 onward population in Europe and Japan is set to start declining apart from immigration and the working population is already shrinking.

[Schaefer Light]

I've said it on other posts on this perennially popular MMM forum topic, but I strongly believe, contrary to many comments here, ambivalence or uncertainty about having a child is not an indicator of how much you will like being a parent or how good you will be at it.

I agree.  Humans are terrible at predicting what they'll enjoy.

[wenchsenior]

I feel a bit sad about the whole re-branding of not having kids as being "child free" or even calling people with kids breeders.

I view it primarily as how to differentiate between 'childless' people, who by implication did want kids and were unable to have any, and for whom it might be an extremely sensitive topic.  One might approach the topic pretty differently with them, or they probably view themselves somewhat differently from, e.g., 'childfree' people like me, who never had any interest in having kids.  If someone comes up with a better descriptor, I'm all ears.

[PhilB]

I would suggest that any one who knows they don't want kids to get sterilized. 

I'd caution against this at a young age.  How you think about this at 25 can change drastically by the time you hit 35.

+1  to this.  Things can change more than you'd imagine. 

I was always absolutely dead set against having kids and very clear about it to my wife.  She decided to marry me anyway as she didn't have strong feelings either way.  12 years later she let me know that with her clock ticking she had begun to really want kids and would I be up for it?  With much trepidation I agreed and a while later we had a son.  Roughly a year after that I suggested to her that we should have another one.  If we hadn't waited so long to start we would probably have had a third too.  What was really weird was that I even started to quite like other people's kids once I had some of my own.

[NewPerspective]

I feel a bit sad about the whole re-branding of not having kids as being "child free" or even calling people with kids breeders.

I view it primarily as how to differentiate between 'childless' people, who by implication did want kids and were unable to have any, and for whom it might be an extremely sensitive topic.  One might approach the topic pretty differently with them, or they probably view themselves somewhat differently from, e.g., 'childfree' people like me, who never had any interest in having kids.  If someone comes up with a better descriptor, I'm all ears.

+1
I almost always tell people we don't have kids by choice so there is no awkward wondering if we couldn't or whatever.  I'm very happy to discuss it with people and freely acknowledge that I know there are things I'm giving up by not being a parent.  I personally don't like the term breeders and all the animosity that goes along with it. 

[FIRE Artist]

Whereas I know exactly how my life would be without kids

I would argue that you don't know exactly how life would be without kids.  If a person has kids at 25, you know how life is without kids in your early 20's, but certainly don't know what life can be like without kids at 30, 40, 50 and onwards. 

[Prairie Stash]

My point was that he didn't apparently want the life and responsibility of being a parent, but would do it (at least get spouse pregnant and financially support her and kids) if she did the majority of the care giving and child raising and he can just go work and play.

I was just saying that sometimes s hit happens and he might find himself alone as both the financial provider AND only parent (or possibly caring for a sick spouse and/or sick kid(s) as well long term) and would he be OK with that.  For those of us who grew up in one parent/divorced household its a fuck-ton of work for the single parent. Even if you get full time 24/7 care for the kids with a live-in nanny, I would imagine most kids will still need some parental care and love and time.

I agree that stuff happens, but using an example of a spousal death as a reason to avoid kids is off the mark. Not every calamity is kid centric, lots of stuff sucks regardless. You could have made the exact same arguments for remaining single; what if you get divorced? what if they get sick? what if they die and leave you wracked with grief? Is that easier for you than it is for me, I doubt it, I imagine your pain would be equally large.

Life insurance or long term diability insurance is readily available and can be the primary financial provider in the case of death or illness. If I die or become diagnosed with a terminal disease today, my spouse doesn't become the main provider for our family, the insurance company will be.

If you feel the OP needs to think about your questions, I agree with you. I have also thought through the answers in my situation and feel they are valid responses. How would you recommend dealing with each of those situations? I think you should go a step farther and answer your questions as well, how would you handle a sick spouse, are you prepared?

Attempting to illicit a fear response to avoid kids is heavy handed. You could do the same for making the case of remaining single, an equally valid way of living.

My husband did die when my biological kids were very young and I became the adoptive parent of my teenaged stepdaughter because her birth mother was unable/unwilling to provide even basic care for her. Basically every decision I've had to make in the past 10 years has been child-centric because, well just because. There's no handing them off for the weekend to the other parent because that's not an option. And I get it. It's the price of love and the price of having children and it's how it is.

My best friend is child free by choice. We completely accept each other. I temper somewhat things that are understandably boring to her like carpools and parent-teacher meetings. She slightly dials back on things like lounging in bed on Sunday mornings with her rugby player husband, but I did listen with interest (and ok a little envy) when they flew off to Cabo for a weekend to escape the rain. She and I love and respect each other, and issue of having kids/not having them is there, but in no way an obstacle to our friendship. We all don't have the same choices in life.

Thank you for the reply. As you point out, not everyone, such as your step-daughters bio-mom wants to be a parent. The Bio-mom (dad too?) made her choice to not be a parent after having kids, they will have to live with the choice. They will have a messed up relationship with your daughter forever, my guess, because of all the issues. However, I hope your daughter turns out fine because of your support and I bet she will. As you point out, you have first hand experience with both sides, taking in kids and giving up kids.

I'm not saying its an easy choice, quite the opposite. Its one of the toughest choice a person can make and should never be taken lightly. I would get a nanny in your situation because I don't think I could handle it alone, that's why there's life insurance, it's for people like me. I would be a wreck for a long time if my spouse died, I don't think I'd be a fit parent and I can admit it. There's nothing wrong with getting help or outsourcing care if its in the childs best interests. It was in your stepdaughters best interest to come to you, I bet she is much better off.

In your post I read both sides of the argument, keeping the kids and letting someone else do a better job. Life is messy, I read three choices by three different people (you, bio-mom, bio-dad).

[Freedom2016]

Whereas I know exactly how my life would be without kids

I would argue that you don't know exactly how life would be without kids.  If a person has kids at 25, you know how life is without kids in your early 20's, but certainly don't know what life can be like without kids at 30, 40, 50 and onwards.

Does a person who has kids in their late 30's know what life would be like without kids?  :) I had an awesome life pre-kids. Traveled to dozens of countries, had fun hobbies, did what I wanted, when I wanted, had all kinds of disposable income... truly it was great. But I wanted kids, assuming I met the right partner. I did meet the right partner, we got married, and had kids when I was 38 and 40. Very different life now - quite consuming and kid-focused, yes - but no regrets. I have a good sense of what my life would be like without them, and I'm happy with the decisions we've made. These days I have a bit of BTDT feeling about my single lifestyle. Or maybe it's just that I'm too tired to imagine keeping up the pace and activities that I used to. 

Anyway, I think it's great to choose a life without kids, it's great to choose a life with kids... pejoratives going in either direction don't make sense to me.

Having said that, life is weird and people's perspectives can change. We have friends where the husband always wanted kids and his wife definitely did not. She has a special needs sibling and worried she might be genetically predisposed to having a special needs child herself...and was not interested in the amount of work and sacrifice involved. Then, all of their vigilant birth control efforts failed and she got pregnant. I'm not privy to whether they discussed abortion but they kept that baby and he was born in January w/ no health issues. The wife is totally delighted and in love, and is now saying she wants 8 more kids -- as big a turnaround in perspective as I've ever seen. The husband is of course delighted as well, but man you can't predict or rely on someone having this kind of sea change. It so easily could have become a bad situation for one of the spouses - the husband never having kids if their BC had worked; or the wife resenting having the baby.

[mm1970]

I decided to not have children.  I was very happy with this decision.  However, you may change your mind when you get older, and hopefully its not too late.  It's funny, as I get older, particularly around the holidays, sometimes I wish I had kids and eventually grandkids to spend it with.  I do think as you get older this becomes more of a concern, particularly after your own immediate family begins to die off.  All that said, my fiance has a child, which has been nice.

I have a friend with grown children and no grandchildren, and they aren't likely to get grandchildren.

They've sort of "adopted" a grandchild.  They've met people in this town and made good friends, and his wife (age: early 60s), is basically "grandma".  Babysits, takes the kid to the park, etc.

[mm1970]

Birth rates of educated people are well bellow the replacement rate. The main reason the world is getting too full is people in Africa are having 6 kids on average. From 2030 onward population in Europe and Japan is set to start declining apart from immigration and the working population is already shrinking.

"They" are taking over the Earth and coming to our countries? That's it, I changed my mind, I'm popping out babies tout de suite with my (working, educated, immigrant PoC) husband so the kiddos can join the border patrol.

Oh you don't need to worry since "they" will all die by 20 due to massive poverty, disease, civil war, genocide and starvation so probably won't be taking all the jobs so "we" are safe. Oh but you should have kids anyways 'cause...something something...your life is wasted without kids....something something ...you won't be complete without them...something something...your selfish not to...something something...God says ya gotta...something something...

I loved this whole post.

[2Cent]

Birth rates of educated people are well bellow the replacement rate. The main reason the world is getting too full is people in Africa are having 6 kids on average. From 2030 onward population in Europe and Japan is set to start declining apart from immigration and the working population is already shrinking.

"They" are taking over the Earth and coming to our countries? That's it, I changed my mind, I'm popping out babies tout de suite with my (working, educated, immigrant PoC) husband so the kiddos can join the border patrol.

Oh you don't need to worry since "they" will all die by 20 due to massive poverty, disease, civil war, genocide and starvation so probably won't be taking all the jobs so "we" are safe. Oh but you should have kids anyways 'cause...something something...your life is wasted without kids....something something ...you won't be complete without them...something something...your selfish not to...something something...God says ya gotta...something something...

Hmm. I think you're projecting things here... What I meant was "They" have a huge population growth problem, but we have a decline problem. Japan, which is the worst, is projected to have a working to elderly ratio of 80% in 2060. So one worker for every 4 elderly.

...
+2. I also prefer the term childfree for all your reasons listed (and massively hate the term breeder as if choosing to parent is nothing more then inseminating a farm animal).  I see childfree as no different then carfree or homefree or jobfree - they imply a voluntary aspect more so then using the word "less". I also now am gonna use the word marriage-free rather than single since technically I'm choosing to be single and not planning to marry again (although I'm fine with being in a relationship)

I agree that childless implies you weren't able to have them, so that's no good. But child-free doesn't really imply choice. It implies that you are free of a generally undesirable thing. Carfree or housefree or jobfree aren't words because cars houses and jobs are generally desirable. Stress-free, debt-free, fat-free, etc are words because those things are negative. 

Maybe it's better to define yourself by things that you are, instead of by negatives. Like retired instead of job-free. Or walker/biker instead of car-free. Maybe that's also a better way to frame the question. Not, do you want children or not, but what DO you want to do with your life?

[OtherJen]

Birth rates of educated people are well bellow the replacement rate. The main reason the world is getting too full is people in Africa are having 6 kids on average. From 2030 onward population in Europe and Japan is set to start declining apart from immigration and the working population is already shrinking.

"They" are taking over the Earth and coming to our countries? That's it, I changed my mind, I'm popping out babies tout de suite with my (working, educated, immigrant PoC) husband so the kiddos can join the border patrol.

Oh you don't need to worry since "they" will all die by 20 due to massive poverty, disease, civil war, genocide and starvation so probably won't be taking all the jobs so "we" are safe. Oh but you should have kids anyways 'cause...something something...your life is wasted without kids....something something ...you won't be complete without them...something something...your selfish not to...something something...God says ya gotta...something something...

Yay, you’re about to hit the parenting-guilt bingo! I’ll add a couple of my personal favorites to push us over the top:

“but you OWE your parents grandchildren! You don’t have siblings who will do it!” (In which case, mom and dad should have had more kids; since they only wanted one, they understand me)

“but aren’t you bored/lonely?!” (from people who need to be entertained by others, cable TV, expensive live sports, and boozy mom parties all the time lest they start whining about boredom on social media)

“you’re a married woman. You shouldn’t be working! The church teaches that your only job now is to have babies and care for your home” (I was working on my PhD at the time. I didn’t stay in that church for much longer.)

[Roadrunner53]

When I was a child I was mommy to many dolls and loved to dress them up and play with them. Got married at age 19, almost 20, and we never wanted kids at that time. We were having the time of our lives. We both had average, non professional jobs but we saved and built a house when we were 22 and 23 years old. Money was always tight and we still never thought about children. Our best friends that got married two weeks after we did also didn't have children for 10 years. They ended up with a boy and a girl. I never felt the draw of mother hood even though these were close friends. Then in my early 30's we decided maybe we should have a kid and tried for a while and it didn't happen so we found out there was sterility problems. We just didn't pursue it. We thought of adoption but just didn't even do any research. I don't think either of us were that crazy about the idea of having kids. The Hub had been brought up in a hectic household with two sisters and a brother. It was a total looney bin. I was an only child so was used to a quiet household. I was very close to my Mom and we were like best friends. She passed away in 2013. I sometimes think that it would have been nice to have that kind of relationship with a daughter. But, no one can predict if you will have a child who would be very close to you. You can't predict where the kid will end up. You can't predict even if they live in the same town or they will have time for you. We have enjoyed a selfish life of vacations, new cars, buying whatever we wanted. We have saved and are comfortable in retirement. We have had dogs throughout our marriage and they are our furry kids. I never felt the hormones screaming that I needed to have a kid. I will turn 65 in a few months. The one thing that I do regret is that my Hub would have been a wonderful parent because he is so kind and caring. When I used to work there were women with children and they were always comparing notes on diapers, potty training, day care, soccer and kid oriented conversations. It was so boring to me and I couldn't relate to it at all. I was much more comfortable talking to the guys because they would talk about the news, trips, life. To the OP, if you are not a candidate to be a father I would recommend you find a woman with like thinking. Don't marry someone who wants kids and deny her. Also, don't have kids to please a woman if you don't want them. You would probably be a terrible father and regret having the kid later on.

[Catbert]

I would suggest that any one who knows they don't want kids to get sterilized. 

I'd caution against this at a young age.  How you think about this at 25 can change drastically by the time you hit 35.

+1  to this.  Things can change more than you'd imagine. 

I was always absolutely dead set against having kids and very clear about it to my wife.  She decided to marry me anyway as she didn't have strong feelings either way.  12 years later she let me know that with her clock ticking she had begun to really want kids and would I be up for it?  With much trepidation I agreed and a while later we had a son.  Roughly a year after that I suggested to her that we should have another one.  If we hadn't waited so long to start we would probably have had a third too.  What was really weird was that I even started to quite like other people's kids once I had some of my own.

Yes, but...if you'd had a vasectomy the issue wouldn't have come up and you'd have been fine without kids.  If you wife knew that it wasn't possible she would have been wistful but it would have passed.  Maybe you chose not to have a vasectomy because it really wasn't a settled issue for you.

[HBFIRE]

Yes, but...if you'd had a vasectomy the issue wouldn't have come up and you'd have been fine without kids. 

Maybe or maybe not.  Once I hit late 30s I had some regrets.  Wife had a tubal ligation unfortunately (at 32), and we both regret that choice.  I strongly caution others against the choice we made until they are older.  There is a very good reason doctors are hesitant about this.  Just some thoughts from someone who did have regrets.  We are now considering reversing the tubal ligation.  VERY expensive and odds of success aren't fantastic.

[NoraLenderbee]

But child-free doesn't really imply choice. It implies that you are free of a generally undesirable thing. Carfree or housefree or jobfree aren't words because cars houses and jobs are generally desirable. Stress-free, debt-free, fat-free, etc are words because those things are negative. 

Car-free is most definitely a word used by people who consciously choose not to own a car--typically for environmental reasons--and make a point of using cycling, walking, and public transit to get around. Debt-free is not necessarily positive to someone who uses debt as a tool for investment (real-estate investors, for example). These terms are not universally seen as positive or negative.

Child-free means you are free of something *you* don't desire. It does not mean children are inherently a negative thing; they are simply something *you* prefer to be without. Childfree refers specifically to those who don't have kids and are happy about it. It doesn't apply to people who are childless not by choice, nor to people who haven't decided whether to have kids, or haven't had them yet, or whose kids have grown up and moved out.

Choosing not to have children is also not wasteful, selfish, immature, un-serious, or equivalent to squandering one's inheritance, thank you very much.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

@TheGrimSqueaker: Wow, what an incredible story! I am so sorry for what you have been through. I am in awe of all you have dealt with. Beyond that, words utterly fail me...

So agree. What a terrible situation that came out of what was a selfless noble act. I've been following @TheGrimSqueaker awesome posts for a long time and knew there was difficulty but seeing it in total is so sad. Although I think she has given her daughter something of great value - a safe and stable home life and unconditional love while growing up - which may have molded her for the better in ways yet unseen then she would have gotten in a institutional setting. Glad the VSB isn't quite as much of a hand full.

Thanks for the kind words, both of you.

Becoming a parent can lead to disaster the natural way too. Very few families plan for a child who needs care for life because he or she develops symptoms of autism, muscular dystrophy, or cancer. Nor does anyone ever seem to think *their* child will be the one who gets severe brain damage after being underwater in a swimming pool or is hit by a drunk driver or stray bullet and paralyzed for life. Or who takes the "Tide pod challenge" and suffers permanent medical damage.

In most families teens gradually become more self-sufficient, and there's usually an expectation that less control and supervision is needed (but more information and supportive feedback). Eating disorders, addictions, and mental illnesses put a monkey wrench in that expectation. It turns parenting into an extreme lifetime commitment that drives out any other possibility of a career, a social life, a family life, or even basic order in the home.

[wenchsenior]

Birth rates of educated people are well bellow the replacement rate. The main reason the world is getting too full is people in Africa are having 6 kids on average. From 2030 onward population in Europe and Japan is set to start declining apart from immigration and the working population is already shrinking.

"They" are taking over the Earth and coming to our countries? That's it, I changed my mind, I'm popping out babies tout de suite with my (working, educated, immigrant PoC) husband so the kiddos can join the border patrol.

Oh you don't need to worry since "they" will all die by 20 due to massive poverty, disease, civil war, genocide and starvation so probably won't be taking all the jobs so "we" are safe. Oh but you should have kids anyways 'cause...something something...your life is wasted without kids....something something ...you won't be complete without them...something something...your selfish not to...something something...God says ya gotta...something something...

Hmm. I think you're projecting things here... What I meant was "They" have a huge population growth problem, but we have a decline problem. Japan, which is the worst, is projected to have a working to elderly ratio of 80% in 2060. So one worker for every 4 elderly.

...
+2. I also prefer the term childfree for all your reasons listed (and massively hate the term breeder as if choosing to parent is nothing more then inseminating a farm animal).  I see childfree as no different then carfree or homefree or jobfree - they imply a voluntary aspect more so then using the word "less". I also now am gonna use the word marriage-free rather than single since technically I'm choosing to be single and not planning to marry again (although I'm fine with being in a relationship)

I agree that childless implies you weren't able to have them, so that's no good. But child-free doesn't really imply choice. It implies that you are free of a generally undesirable thing. Carfree or housefree or jobfree aren't words because cars houses and jobs are generally desirable. Stress-free, debt-free, fat-free, etc are words because those things are negative. 

Maybe it's better to define yourself by things that you are, instead of by negatives. Like retired instead of job-free. Or walker/biker instead of car-free. Maybe that's also a better way to frame the question. Not, do you want children or not, but what DO you want to do with your life?

Well I was sort of being a bit ridiculous but I do think for many people the word "free" rather then "less" puts a different spin on things. If I were to say I'm a homeless, jobless, carless person it may sound as if I'm in dire need or a penniless bum. Personally IRL I don't use free or less. I just say I chose not to have kids - or a car or a spouse or a job or a home and explain why. Online its just easier to use the word free as to me it conjures up a positive emotion based on a voluntary choice rather than a negative.

Exactly.  I don't go around defining myself (outside of internet discussions like this) as 'childfree' b/c my concept of myself doesn't have anything to do with kids at all.   If you don't do, and are never interested in taking up, e.g., carpentry, you probably don't think of yourself in relation to carpentry at all, unless it comes up in conversation with someone who wants to talk about carpentry.  I don't define myself as a 'non-carpenter' in my head or to anyone else, unless possibly if I were to encounter someone who loved carpentry and asked me if I did. 

Similarly with being childfree.  I never bring it up to people. Why would I when kids don't interest me in relation to my own identity, either in the having or the lacking?  New people I meet, of course, will often ask if I have kids, and I always just say, "no, we never had any interest in having any."  That pretty much covers it.  It doesn't really require using a term to define myself.

[Roadrunner53]

TheGrimSqueaker, may I ask how did you come to adopt your daughter? Did you know she had issues before adoption?

Your daughter may have been abused or had a birth mother who was a drug addict.

You definitely went thru hell and you made the right decision to not let her back in the house.

I have never been thru anything like you described and so sad how it all worked out.

Best wishes to you!

[Hula Hoop]

Yes, but...if you'd had a vasectomy the issue wouldn't have come up and you'd have been fine without kids. 

Maybe or maybe not.  Once I hit late 30s I had some regrets.  Wife had a tubal ligation unfortunately (at 32), and we both regret that choice.  I strongly caution others against the choice we made until they are older.  There is a very good reason doctors are hesitant about this.  Just some thoughts from someone who did have regrets.  We are now considering reversing the tubal ligation.  VERY expensive and odds of success aren't fantastic.

I'm sorry to hear this.  It sounds like a very difficult situation.  Best of luck to you.

[NewPerspective]

Birth rates of educated people are well bellow the replacement rate. The main reason the world is getting too full is people in Africa are having 6 kids on average. From 2030 onward population in Europe and Japan is set to start declining apart from immigration and the working population is already shrinking.

"They" are taking over the Earth and coming to our countries? That's it, I changed my mind, I'm popping out babies tout de suite with my (working, educated, immigrant PoC) husband so the kiddos can join the border patrol.

Oh you don't need to worry since "they" will all die by 20 due to massive poverty, disease, civil war, genocide and starvation so probably won't be taking all the jobs so "we" are safe. Oh but you should have kids anyways 'cause...something something...your life is wasted without kids....something something ...you won't be complete without them...something something...your selfish not to...something something...God says ya gotta...something something...

Hmm. I think you're projecting things here... What I meant was "They" have a huge population growth problem, but we have a decline problem. Japan, which is the worst, is projected to have a working to elderly ratio of 80% in 2060. So one worker for every 4 elderly.

...
+2. I also prefer the term childfree for all your reasons listed (and massively hate the term breeder as if choosing to parent is nothing more then inseminating a farm animal).  I see childfree as no different then carfree or homefree or jobfree - they imply a voluntary aspect more so then using the word "less". I also now am gonna use the word marriage-free rather than single since technically I'm choosing to be single and not planning to marry again (although I'm fine with being in a relationship)

I agree that childless implies you weren't able to have them, so that's no good. But child-free doesn't really imply choice. It implies that you are free of a generally undesirable thing. Carfree or housefree or jobfree aren't words because cars houses and jobs are generally desirable. Stress-free, debt-free, fat-free, etc are words because those things are negative. 

Maybe it's better to define yourself by things that you are, instead of by negatives. Like retired instead of job-free. Or walker/biker instead of car-free. Maybe that's also a better way to frame the question. Not, do you want children or not, but what DO you want to do with your life?

Well I was sort of being a bit ridiculous but I do think for many people the word "free" rather then "less" puts a different spin on things. If I were to say I'm a homeless, jobless, carless person it may sound as if I'm in dire need or a penniless bum. Personally IRL I don't use free or less. I just say I chose not to have kids - or a car or a spouse or a job or a home and explain why. Online its just easier to use the word free as to me it conjures up a positive emotion based on a voluntary choice rather than a negative.

Exactly.  I don't go around defining myself (outside of internet discussions like this) as 'childfree' b/c my concept of myself doesn't have anything to do with kids at all.   If you don't do, and are never interested in taking up, e.g., carpentry, you probably don't think of yourself in relation to carpentry at all, unless it comes up in conversation with someone who wants to talk about carpentry.  I don't define myself as a 'non-carpenter' in my head or to anyone else, unless possibly if I were to encounter someone who loved carpentry and asked me if I did. 

Similarly with being childfree.  I never bring it up to people. Why would I when kids don't interest me in relation to my own identity, either in the having or the lacking?  New people I meet, of course, will often ask if I have kids, and I always just say, "no, we never had any interest in having any."  That pretty much covers it.  It doesn't really require using a term to define myself.

Same for me.  I don't say I'm child free IRL.  When people ask if we have kids I just say no, that it never felt right for us.  Usually that will lead to additional conversation about it but I've never had a bad experience with people saying I'm going to regret it or I'm selfish or anything like that.  (Which BTW, I don't think I am selfish. For me personally, I live a life pretty similar to what I would live if I did have kids).  I think the only time it ever really feels awkward is in group settings with lots of women that don't know each other well.  (Like attending work related events with my husband).  Almost immediately conversation is centered around kids.  Meh to that!  :-)

[HBFIRE]

Yes, but...if you'd had a vasectomy the issue wouldn't have come up and you'd have been fine without kids. 

Maybe or maybe not.  Once I hit late 30s I had some regrets.  Wife had a tubal ligation unfortunately (at 32), and we both regret that choice.  I strongly caution others against the choice we made until they are older.  There is a very good reason doctors are hesitant about this.  Just some thoughts from someone who did have regrets.  We are now considering reversing the tubal ligation.  VERY expensive and odds of success aren't fantastic.

I'm sorry to hear this.  It sounds like a very difficult situation.  Best of luck to you.

Well it could be worse, at least we don't have to work anymore and can afford the procedure.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

TheGrimSqueaker, may I ask how did you come to adopt your daughter? Did you know she had issues before adoption?

Your daughter may have been abused or had a birth mother who was a drug addict.

You definitely went thru hell and you made the right decision to not let her back in the house.

I have never been thru anything like you described and so sad how it all worked out.

Best wishes to you!

She had a file a mile long that provided details of every aspect of her early life and family situation. I won't discuss what was in the file here; it's not my story to tell. However, it grossly understated her actual behavior. I got details of it from previous foster parents and from her bio-family. Still, the behavior they described did not come close to the acting-out this last year.

The thing that threw me was that for the previous year and a half prior to her arriving at my place, and the first year or so that she was with me, her behavior was stable. A bunch of shrinks swore up and down that the initial diagnoses were mistaken and that her behavioral improvements (having lasted for years) were evidence of permanent improvement. She even did things that were consistent with wanting to belong to my family, community, and household. What issues we had adjusting to each other (and there were some) were benign enough that I figured I could run out the clock. But no sooner was the ink dry on the adoption order than her personality shifted and her behaviors started to slowly deteriorate, becoming gradually more difficult to deal with due chiefly to significant enabling by her bio-family, a school counselor, and even a former foster parent (all of whom had initially supported the adoption, and some of whom should have known better).

[CindyBS]

Dh was enraged he was not allowed to get a vasectomy at age 19/20.   He was thrilled to have (planned) children in his 30's.  We have 2, he wanted more, but I wanted to stop at 2.  I would recommend everyone hold off on getting sterilized under age 30ish.


Also, we have the kid that people don't want to have if we are being very honest.  He has multiple disabilities including High Functioning Autism and Cancer, but a high IQ.  He takes an enormous amounts of parenting resources and I have basically no career because of it. 

I cringe a little inside when I hear people say they don't want kids b/c they don't want to risk having a kid like mine.  I realize it is a lot to ask of anyone and the toll it has taken is no joke.  But despite it all he is one of the best things that has ever happened to me and specifically due to his circumstances, he is so warm and loving towards me.  He knows how precious life is in a way most teens don't, he is so grateful for me, he knows first hand how petty somethings other teens do are.  We argue sometimes, but I can't imagine a day I'll ever hear a "I hate you" from him or him never calling me in his 20's, etc.  Disabled kids, even the severely disabled and critically ill ones are not all bad. 

[Zikoris]

I'm not really "older", but at 31, I have at least two decades worth of not wanting kids under my belt, including ten years of being sterilized. Zero regrets - it was one of the best things I've ever done. We absolutely love our lives, which involve tons of international travel, doing whatever we want, and saving buckets of money for early retirement.

It's interesting you ask about the decision-making process, OP. There was precisely zero for me. It was the most obvious thing in the world, like my eye colour or height. There has never for a second been any other possibility.

As far as dating, it was much easier to weed out not-childfree people after my sterilization surgery (at 21). Before you have that done, people lie and pretend they don't want kids, hoping you'll change your mind. When there's nothing in there but ashes and scar tissue, not so much. So I definitely recommend getting sliced and diced ASAP (if you know for sure it's what you want, blah blah) and letting dates know early on.

[Linea_Norway]

Same for me.  I don't say I'm child free IRL.  When people ask if we have kids I just say no, that it never felt right for us.  Usually that will lead to additional conversation about it but I've never had a bad experience with people saying I'm going to regret it or I'm selfish or anything like that.  (Which BTW, I don't think I am selfish. For me personally, I live a life pretty similar to what I would live if I did have kids).  I think the only time it ever really feels awkward is in group settings with lots of women that don't know each other well.  (Like attending work related events with my husband).  Almost immediately conversation is centered around kids.  Meh to that!  :-)

Indeed, meh to that.
I was once in a train sitting beside a person from my village who I am not very acquainted to. She asked me whether I had children. I said no and explained that it was by choice. I thought I'd be polite and ask her the same question in return, as she started the subject. She had no children and said they couldn't get them. That situation was a bit painful. It could have been so avoided if people wouldn't have had the habit of asking about children, out of the blue.

[FrugalToque]

There seems to be a lot of pressure on women to procreate, and a whole lot of "you will change your mind later" that doesn't seem to be directed to men to anywhere near the same extent (yay sexism!).

Women have a much shorter fertility window than men, and their physical attractiveness—their primary way of attaining mates—also declines much faster (but not necessarily in a linear fashion).  If anything is sexist it's biology. If you wait too long, you may find your choices are involuntarily foreclosed. I don't think politically correct pablum helps anyone in these situations.

Do you have any evidence that women primarily use physical attractiveness to reproduce?  Or find mates?  Last time I checked, that wasn't the case.

Men also have issues as they get older.  High quality sperm production drops off:
https://www.menshealth.com/health/a19520630/age-and-risks-of-fathering-a-child/
"As a result, your body starts to churn out more defective sperm, which contain DNA mutations that could harm your babies-to-be."

Toque.

[FrugalToque]

I would suggest that any one who knows they don't want kids to get sterilized. 

Most breeders should be be sterilized also.  Many of the rejects are the ones having kids, putting the burden on the rest of society.  Just look around.  I'm not referring to anyone reading this forum of course.

As always, there's an XKCD for that:  https://xkcd.com/603/

Toque.

[Roadrunner53]

I wonder if there have ever been studies on older men 60-75 who father children late in life and the health of the kid down the road. Like is longevity an issue for the children of men with old sperm? Or is sperm just sperm no matter how old the man is?

My grandfather lived to be 110 years old and I always wondered if they took blood samples and bone marrow from him and did studies, would they have found what his fountain of youth was? He never had dementia and had a full head of hair.

[jim555]

I'm an Older Childless Mustachian and don't regret it.  Glad I don't have to deal with the complications involved with it.

[deek]

This is interesting to read. I'm 26 and am in no hurry to have children, but something tells me I want one or two with the right person. I'm not sure I could live with myself later in life not having created all those unique memories and experiences as a father. Part of what's telling me I should experience being a father is the fact that my dad did an incredible job raising 3 children.. and he still to this day doesn't know who his biological father was. Early on, my mom and dad were extremely strapped for cash and still managed to own a home and provide us with everything we needed, even in periods where my dad was between jobs for a couple different reasons.

If he could do it under those circumstances, I have no doubts about my ability to be a father. BUT, I want to make sure I'm secure financially and I need to be sure I'm creating life with the right person, and I'm optimistic that will happen.

[lemonlyman]

I have a 3 year old daughter and a 3 month old son. My wife was the driving force behind having children. I was really ambivalent about it. Now that it's a reality, it has been hard to assume so much responsibility and the loss of freedom that comes with it, but I kind of think of it like the path to FI I'm on: just punting all the leisurely, fun things I want to do until later down the road.

I was pretty wishy washy about most things before having a kid. Having my daughter pushed me to finding MMM and taking my career seriously. I dreamed of being able to take her out of school and to the movies on a whim when she's 10 years old. So she was a catalyst to me getting my shit together. Sometimes I think I wasn't made to be so responsible for others, but I'm also positive I would be worse off without that responsibility.

That's my experience so far, but I never had that thought that I never wanted kids.

[RookieStache]

I find that most people who don't have kids won't regret it because they have nothing to compare it to. And for those that do regret it, you will have a hard time getting them to admit it as much as if it were a blind poll / survey.

I'm not sure you will get the answers you are looking for in this thread...

[CindyBS]

Google 'scary mommy confessions' for a few 1000 pages of parental regret.

There are some here and there that say "I regret having kids", but by and large that is people venting about or admitting things they can't/don't want to IRL.

I have made confessions on that site and I certainly do not regret having kids. 

[pbkmaine]

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/if-you-had-to-do-it-all-over-again-would-you-have-children.116488/

[Missy B]

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/if-you-had-to-do-it-all-over-again-would-you-have-children.116488/

Great link. I had forgotten about that Ann Landers story.

I have talked to a number of women IRL who said that  they would not do it again, and who were, by my assessment and that of their grown children, great moms. My own mother shared that she was glad I had decided not to have children, as that was her wish for me and my sister. (she has always been great with kids, and even now provides support for one of my cousins with a little one. She just felt it would be better for us not to have)

[TheGrimSqueaker]

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/if-you-had-to-do-it-all-over-again-would-you-have-children.116488/

Great link. I had forgotten about that Ann Landers story.

I have talked to a number of women IRL who said that  they would not do it again, and who were, by my assessment and that of their grown children, great moms. My own mother shared that she was glad I had decided not to have children, as that was her wish for me and my sister. (she has always been great with kids, and even now provides support for one of my cousins with a little one. She just felt it would be better for us not to have)

Just because a person is in a situation they didn't choose, didn't want, would not choose again if they had the option, or hate outright doesn't mean they won't do their duty and find a few bright spots in the process. Also, let's not forget the power of hedonic adaptation. People can get used to gigantic life changes even if they are unwanted or unpleasant.

[Larsg]

I would guess that the number of people who regret having children is quite low, especially for people in stereotypical MMM financial situations. I'm too lazy to research this—perhaps someone else is more interested.

There is a Facebook Group Started for those that do regret it. We have many friends that do not have kids and we see that there is satisfaction in life either way...knowing who you are is key.

Facebook group “I Regret Having Children,” which has over 7,000 followers and was created only last fall.