Not getting a cohabitation agreement/marraige to save taxes

[mstr d]

Me and my girlfriend are together and living to gether in the same house for a couple of years.

We choose to not get a cohabitation agreement to save on taxes. And not adding each other on pension so the gouverment sees us as just two random people living together.

Bud if we get married it wil cost us about 5000 euro in taxes each year.

[terran]

As long as you and your girlfriend are fine with it and have no religious objections I wouldn't be concerned about the morals of it.

If I was your girlfriend I would be concerned about it depending on the laws regarding you supporting the child if you split up. I believe you do have a moral obligation to support your children, and that includes supporting a parent who provides the majority of that child's care. I assume, given your girlfriends income that she'll be the primary caregiver, which means she's giving up an opportunity to advance her career, so you should plan on supporting the child and supporting your girlfriend until she can get on her feet if you split up. If I was your girlfriend I would want as much legal standing to enforce that as possible, so if you not recognizing the child now means you would be less obligated to support the mother and child if you split up, then that would not be something I would be interested in despite the tax savings.

[partgypsy]

Europe is very different, and I'm American... For myself, as a woman, I happily co-habitated with my significant other for 5 years. But, when we started thinking about kids I wanted to be married and raise my kid or kids as part of a family. Pretty important to me and someone who wasn't cool with that would have been a huge flag. You may see it as just a piece of paper, but for me it was emotional, symbolic, and yes legal security to have the green light to proceed in both getting a house together as well as have a family. Tax benefits would not have been enough for me to forgo that and yes we did have to pay more in taxes after getting married.

I am now divorced (out of my control) and my kids are a pre teen, teen. If I ended up co-habitating with someone in the future the marriage vs no marriage thing would not be such a big deal, since we would not be raising kids together. 

Europe I understand is different both in importance of marriage, and open/closed marriages, possibly the stigma of being an illegitimate child, so what I would do, it's really between you and your significant other as long as everyone was comfortable with the situation (and it was legal).

[I'm a red panda]

For me, if I have to ask myself if something is immoral or unethical, it usually means I am having doubts and it is.

Morality is relative though. Only you can decide, especially within the bounds of your culture, which I am not familiar with.

[Imma]

I'm a tax law specialist from the NL. Your plan will not work for the following reasons:
- once you have a minor child living in the home, the adults are fiscal partners even if one of them is not biologically or legally the parent
- when you choose not to recognize (erkennen) the child, you can also not apply for custody (gezag) which is no big deal as long as you're together, but when you split up you have to go through the court system to prove paternity and become the legal father. Then you request custody in a separate lawsuit. Without custody you can't make life decisions like register them at a school or travel without the mother's permission.
- It's your choice to not register at each others pension fund (although unwise especially for your girlfriend as she must be financially dependent on you if she makes €600/month). Please keep in mind that if you don't recognize your child, they will also not get your pension if you pass away during their childhood
- Is your partner in your will? If so, she will pay the highest rate of inheritance tax
- If she is not in your will and you own a house: where is your family going to live if you pass away? If you rent: is she on the contract and can she afford the rent on her own?

I could come up with a dozen more arguments why not making any arrangements is usually a bad idea.

It is very unsual for fiscal partners to be worse off than single people. The only situation I can think of is her having a low income and very high medical costs that can be deducted and her threshold (drempel) being much lower than yours due to her low income.

[ysette9]

What does your girlfriend want? I don’t know the laws in your country but in mine I would feel vulnerable raising a kid with someone who has no legal attachment to me or the kid, especially if I were the one earning less and (presumably) taking a hit on career prospects because of the kid.

In my experience, having a baby is the most difficult thing I have ever done in life. I would only do that with someone who was 110% committed to me and 110% committed to this little person we were creating.

[BicycleB]

Clueless American bachelor here. But I suspect your girlfriend is going along with this arrangement because you want it this way, not because she does. If she honestly prefers not to be married, she would probably have explained her reasons why. Instead she's probably just trying not to scare you away.

I bet if you indicate a preference for marriage, she'd be happy. I also suspect that if you want a long term relationship or anything involving a child, you'll have a happier safer family by invoking that marriage structure.  That's because of emotional issues over time, separate from the legal points Imma made. For a relationship 20 years or longer, the 5000 euros of tax is a very small amount compared to the importance of a healthy set of family relationships.

[Imma]

In the Netherlands, having children outside of traditional marriage is much, much more common than in the US, so it wouldn't surprise me if both the OP and his girlfriend are not particularly interested in a traditional marriage. A large majority of the population is no longer religious and there are legal frameworks outside of marriage that offer the same type of protection. Almost half of all children are born out of wedlock.

Not making any arrangements at all in a long term relationship, especially with children however is very unusual and again, it is hard for me to believe it would really cost €5000. Please do double-check that.

If you decide to continue on this path, please get good life insurance so you will not leave your family in poverty if you pass away.

[partgypsy]

In the Netherlands, having children outside of traditional marriage is much, much more common than in the US, so it wouldn't surprise me if both the OP and his girlfriend are not particularly interested in a traditional marriage. A large majority of the population is no longer religious and there are legal frameworks outside of marriage that offer the same type of protection. Almost half of all children are born out of wedlock.

Not making any arrangements at all in a long term relationship, especially with children however is very unusual and again, it is hard for me to believe it would really cost €5000. Please do double-check that.

If you decide to continue on this path, please get good life insurance so you will not leave your family in poverty if you pass away.

I think there are 2 things going on. One is deciding to get married or not married. Marriage provides certain benefits and protections to the various parties, particularly for children. In Europe maybe because they have stronger government safety nets, the benefits/risk ratio is considered less.

The 2nd is what you are proposing to do, which is legally disavow the child so you or partner can get a break on taxes. I don't know if that actually IS legal, because you are lying about what your actual living situation is (as you said yourself only fathers who want nothing to do with their child do this). A corrollary would be two people living together and saying they are "married" but not actually married in order for say one person to get say a green card or citizenship. It would be too bad if you went through all that and then got prosecuted for tax fraud.
2nd, if you really cared for this women and your yet unborn child, wouldn't you WANT to give that person some protections in case something unforeseen happened to you? For example what you are proposing if your partner and child get in a serious accident and are unconscious, you wouldn't even have the right to see them in the hospital (you legally have no relationship to either of them). If you get killed, they couldn't access bank accounts to pay next week bills, nor would your child be able to get whatever your version of social security benefits from being a minor child whose parent died. It sounds like you are ok if something terrible happened to you, that they become destitute?

[Imma]

Just for clarity: if you are cohabiting, you will be able to see your family in hospital in our country (this is not necessarily true abroad). The person you cohabit with is your next of kin, just as their family is. For long term care this might be different.

In our country our fundamental view of marriage is different. To us, it's not the ultimate form of commitment but a ritual that people choose to go to (or not) for emotional/religious reasons. There are other legal frameworks if the word marriage scares you, that offer virtually the same form of protection and are socially accepted to be almost equal to marriage: registered partnership (marriage, but not called marriage) and a cohabitation agreement, that offers more flexibility than marriage laws but can lead to almost the same legal position. It's also not illegal to put father unknown on the birth certificate, but it's cruel to the child. They will be confronted with that throughout their life. They will find out some day. I knew a person who found out their birth certificate was amended as a baby after a paternity test. Mother cheated on her then-husband and he found out and divorced and asked for a test. Even though they were raised by their bio father and mother's first husband disappeared from the scene, it was still life changing to find something like that out about your parents.

While I get OP doesn't consider traditional marriage important, for me it's baffling why he wouldn't want to recognize their child and provide for their family in case something happened. That is a whole different story than the legal side of things.

[ixtap]

Just for clarity: if you are cohabiting, you will be able to see your family in hospital in our country (this is not necessarily true abroad). The person you cohabit with is your next of kin, just as their family is. For long term care this might be different.

In our country our fundamental view of marriage is different. To us, it's not the ultimate form of commitment but a ritual that people choose to go to (or not) for emotional/religious reasons. There are other legal frameworks if the word marriage scares you, that offer virtually the same form of protection and are socially accepted to be almost equal to marriage: registered partnership (marriage, but not called marriage) and a cohabitation agreement, that offers more flexibility than marriage laws but can lead to almost the same legal position. It's also not illegal to put father unknown on the birth certificate, but it's cruel to the child. They will be confronted with that throughout their life. They will find out some day. I knew a person who found out their birth certificate was amended as a baby after a paternity test. Mother cheated on her then-husband and he found out and divorced and asked for a test. Even though they were raised by their bio father and mother's first husband disappeared from the scene, it was still life changing to find something like that out about your parents.

While I get OP doesn't consider traditional marriage important, for me it's baffling why he wouldn't want to recognize their child and provide for their family in case something happened. That is a whole different story than the legal side of things.

Will a cohabiting partner be able to make.medical decisions? Not that many hospitals in the US care about visiting spouse having paperwork, but it is more likely to be required for medical decisions.

[six-car-habit]

 "Nobody does this except fathers that don't want anything to do with the child like divorced couple before birth."

 Do you have any statistics to back this up ?  I ask because you are seriously contemplating it - so why wouldn't thousands of other fathers do the same thing ?

 Also per Imma if i understand it correctly, a "cohabitation" situation makes you a de-facto "next-of-kin" .  But so far you have rejected this, by not getting a co-hab agreement,  to save on current taxes.

  Hmmmmn....  So if you don't claim the child +won't file a cohabitation agreement -- and then perhaps a fatal accident happens to your girlfriend / babymomma  -- is it not most likely that custody of the child be awarded to her parents / her sister /  her best friend / her next-of-kin , etc.?? --  instead of you , who have shown no desire to be legally bound to the child.   

 Quit being cheap and trying to foist your financial responsibilities on the rest of society; if you want a child , be willing to pay for its needs in full.  Otherwise- take measures that she not get pregnant, whilst satisfying your mutual physical desires.

[patrickza]

Just out of curiosity, what happens in future if you don't recognise the child and you die? Who get's your estate.

Then what if you break up and she tries to keep the kids away from you?

Or what if she gets upset with you one day and makes you go for a DNA test and then asks for maintenance going back years.

Even if you exclude the ethical issues, it's just messy.

[marty998]

We plan to get children, the thing is, if I the man do not recognise the child my girlfriend wil get a lot of tax benefits as a single mom. because she has a very low income. About 7000.

I see this as fraud. Mustachians are better than this. I would hate to see this board ever condone this sort of behaviour.

[Linea_Norway]

If I were your girlfriend, I would demand a co-habitation contract (samenlevingscontract), a testament and a proof (erkennen) of fathership. Please don't let her get your child without giving her more security.

For prices of a samenlevingscontract, you can shop for it, from 208 euro. A testament is 277 euro.
https://www.degoedkoopstenotaris.nl/familiezaken/informatie/wat+kost+een+samenlevingscontract

Being frugal is about not throwing away money on all sorts of nonsense, like expensive coffees. But it not about being cheap and saving out on necessities.

[NV Teacher]

We plan to get children, the thing is, if I the man do not recognise the child my girlfriend wil get a lot of tax benefits as a single mom. because she has a very low income. About 7000.

I see this as fraud. Mustachians are better than this. I would hate to see this board ever condone this sort of behaviour.

I agree.

[RetiredAt63]

I would not want to have a child with a man who knows the child is his but does not acknowledge it to save a bit of money.  That is crass - and immoral - and most likely illegal (tax fraud).

[Fig]

I certainly wouldn't want a father who did that...

[Sibley]

Seems relevent, though US centric:

https://captainawkward.com/2019/02/15/1177-how-to-be-fine-with-not-getting-married/

Marriage is just a piece of paper, until its not. Think that sort of thing through.

[SKL-HOU]

We plan to get children, the thing is, if I the man do not recognise the child my girlfriend wil get a lot of tax benefits as a single mom. because she has a very low income. About 7000.

I see this as fraud. Mustachians are better than this. I would hate to see this board ever condone this sort of behaviour.

I agree.

I agree too.

[MrThatsDifferent]

What a horrific thing to do to save a little money. Niet gezellig.