Nissan Leaf

[solon]

Did anybody see MMM's facebook post today about Nissan Leafs?

They're normally very expensive, but a glut of them is just coming off lease. You can pick up a 2011 for $10k.

Anybody have any experience with the Leaf? Since it doesn't have a gasoline engine, what kind of repairs does it need? What are the tricks to squeeze max miles out a charge?

Anybody know how to link to that post?

[cautiouspessimist]

Forummm has written a good bit about his/hers/zes:

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/nissan-leaf-almost-paying-me-to-drive-it/

[forummm]

Yeah, used ones are a good deal. New ones can be a good deal too, especially in CO. I would probably buy new in CO instead of used. You could pay $1k more for a brand new car due to CO's $6k tax credit. This assumes you have enough tax burden to get the full federal and state credits. Last I saw Nissan was offering $5k cash back and 0% for 6 years on top. So it's $7.5k federal, $6k CO, and $5k Nissan off the purchase price. If you paid the same price I paid, you could get yours for $11k brand new (I got the S with the charging package).

[EricP]

I'd just wait until the new models come out.  They're going to be much better cars than the current batch.

[forummm]

I'd just wait until the new models come out.  They're going to be much better cars than the current batch.

How so? And will the difference in price be worth it? It's pretty hard to beat an $11k car that costs almost nothing to drive or maintain.

We have 2 Leafs (no ICE) and I don't see us needing anything the Leaf can't do other than the occasional long road trip (which we can rent a car for). And eventually batteries will get cheap enough we could just buy a much higher capacity one and install it in a Leaf if we really wanted extra range. But we'd only need it for a long trip, so maybe even just rent one if we wanted to take the Leaf.

[lauren_knows]

Yeah, used ones are a good deal. New ones can be a good deal too, especially in CO. I would probably buy new in CO instead of used. You could pay $1k more for a brand new car due to CO's $6k tax credit. This assumes you have enough tax burden to get the full federal and state credits. Last I saw Nissan was offering $5k cash back and 0% for 6 years on top. So it's $7.5k federal, $6k CO, and $5k Nissan off the purchase price. If you paid the same price I paid, you could get yours for $11k brand new (I got the S with the charging package).

Our local Nissan has a new one listed for $12450, but I can't tell if that is with all rebates combined or not: http://www.sheehynissanspringfield.com/new/Nissan/2015-Nissan-Leaf-b1c445c90a0a00652df1f5bd5b99e4c7.htm

[solon]

I'm going to our local dealer this afternoon to pick their brains. (And I'm walking to the dealer :)

[cautiouspessimist]

Yeah, used ones are a good deal. New ones can be a good deal too, especially in CO. I would probably buy new in CO instead of used. You could pay $1k more for a brand new car due to CO's $6k tax credit. This assumes you have enough tax burden to get the full federal and state credits. Last I saw Nissan was offering $5k cash back and 0% for 6 years on top. So it's $7.5k federal, $6k CO, and $5k Nissan off the purchase price. If you paid the same price I paid, you could get yours for $11k brand new (I got the S with the charging package).

Our local Nissan has a new one listed for $12450, but I can't tell if that is with all rebates combined or not: http://www.sheehynissanspringfield.com/new/Nissan/2015-Nissan-Leaf-b1c445c90a0a00652df1f5bd5b99e4c7.htm

I would be shocked if they advertised it without combining all the rebates. How are you going to trick people into buying it if you give them a higher price than what it could end up being?

[forummm]

Yeah, used ones are a good deal. New ones can be a good deal too, especially in CO. I would probably buy new in CO instead of used. You could pay $1k more for a brand new car due to CO's $6k tax credit. This assumes you have enough tax burden to get the full federal and state credits. Last I saw Nissan was offering $5k cash back and 0% for 6 years on top. So it's $7.5k federal, $6k CO, and $5k Nissan off the purchase price. If you paid the same price I paid, you could get yours for $11k brand new (I got the S with the charging package).

Our local Nissan has a new one listed for $12450, but I can't tell if that is with all rebates combined or not: http://www.sheehynissanspringfield.com/new/Nissan/2015-Nissan-Leaf-b1c445c90a0a00652df1f5bd5b99e4c7.htm

I would be shocked if they advertised it without combining all the rebates. How are you going to trick people into buying it if you give them a higher price than what it could end up being?

Yes, they usually include the rebates and tax credits but don't include upgrades or other fees.

Make sure you get BOTH the 0% for 6 years AND the $5000 cash back from NMAC. Some dealers lie to you and say you can only pick one. If you don't have enough income to get the tax credits you could do a lease and get $10,925 off the negotiated vehicle price (this is in lieu of the tax credits and the NMAC cash for purchasing).

http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/leaf/2015/deals/

[EricP]

I'd just wait until the new models come out.  They're going to be much better cars than the current batch.

How so? And will the difference in price be worth it? It's pretty hard to beat an $11k car that costs almost nothing to drive or maintain.

Better range mostly.  But I don't think the price difference will be that significant.  You'll still have all the same tax credits and such just not the $5k from Nissan and it's anyone's guess how much their rebate will be on the next model.

[gaja]

Did anybody see MMM's facebook post today about Nissan Leafs?

They're normally very expensive, but a glut of them is just coming off lease. You can pick up a 2011 for $10k.

Anybody have any experience with the Leaf? Since it doesn't have a gasoline engine, what kind of repairs does it need? What are the tricks to squeeze max miles out a charge?

Anybody know how to link to that post?

My blog has a few posts about driving long trips with a leaf and a eNV200 (basicly a leaf pulled out into a van). Drive carefully, don't speed, as much as possible try to charge when you stop instead of stopping to charge (choose shops that offer charging, plug it in at work and at home). Dress according to the weather, so you don't have to use the heater or AC.

[wordnerd]

Did anybody see MMM's facebook post today about Nissan Leafs?

They're normally very expensive, but a glut of them is just coming off lease. You can pick up a 2011 for $10k.

Anybody have any experience with the Leaf? Since it doesn't have a gasoline engine, what kind of repairs does it need? What are the tricks to squeeze max miles out a charge?

Anybody know how to link to that post?

My blog has a few posts about driving long trips with a leaf and a eNV200 (basicly a leaf pulled out into a van). Drive carefully, don't speed, as much as possible try to charge when you stop instead of stopping to charge (choose shops that offer charging, plug it in at work and at home). Dress according to the weather, so you don't have to use the heater or AC.

All of this. In the winter, I wear a coat and use the seat heater rather than turning on the heater. Uses a lot less energy.

Don't accelerate too quickly or brake too hard. There's a little meter on the dash that gives you feedback on how much energy you're using at any given moment, so you can see how different rates of acceleration affect your mileage.

[forummm]

I'd just wait until the new models come out.  They're going to be much better cars than the current batch.

How so? And will the difference in price be worth it? It's pretty hard to beat an $11k car that costs almost nothing to drive or maintain.

Better range mostly.  But I don't think the price difference will be that significant.  You'll still have all the same tax credits and such just not the $5k from Nissan and it's anyone's guess how much their rebate will be on the next model.

But that better range comes at a cost. Batteries are still pretty expensive. A EPA-rated 150 mile range Leaf battery would be at least $10k and more like $13k probably. And to be honest, you don't need that range. We haven't had an ICE for a year and haven't needed one. And you can always put a much larger battery in the current Leaf models when they get cheap enough to make it worthwhile. I see a car with a bigger battery (i.e. better range) as being like driving around a huge truck because once a year you might want to haul something big with it. It's a waste that MMM would rail against. When batteries are cheap enough it won't make too much of a difference having all that extra battery capacity sitting there not being used. But for now it's really not worth the cost. Once the Gigafactory and other improvements start to really churn, the prices are really going to drop. They've been dropping about 8-10% per year for awhile now. But the Gigafactory is going to produce as much battery capacity as the entire world does now. That's some economy of scale waiting to happen.

[ClaycordJCA]

I am one of those who leased a Leaf and just returned it with very low miles - I averaged about 7,500 a year. The car is a joy to drive - very quick and no engine noise. Much quieter than the Prius. Front seat is quite comfortable.  Good for the environment. Nice hatchback and storage for Costco trips. BUT Consumer Reports no longer recommends because of crash test data and unless the terrain you drive is flat, your maximum range will NOT be 80 miles and may not even be 60.  Mine was probably 50 - hard to tell because the range indicator is not accurate (at a full charge it claimed 62 miles).  I live at the top of a mile+ long hill (approximate 600 ft elevation gain) and parts of it are steep. It takes a lot of energy to go up the hill - I'd lose 5 or 6 miles in "range" every time I did; the regenerative breaking system does not capture a like amount going down hill. If you can manage a 50 mile range or you have a second vehicle, the car is great (but for the crash data). But if your daily commute is long or you live in an area with significant hills and no access to another car, I suggest seeing if you can try it out for a week before deciding to buy. Personally, I'll wait for the next generation since the battery size/capacity and corresponding range should be better assuming Nissan intends to keep up with the Chevy Bolt and Tesla 3.

[ChaseJuggler]

The day I can get a Chevy Volt with lowish miles for $10,000 is the day I buy one.

Just stay away from the Plug In Prius. I had one for a few months and was pretty unhappy with it.

[wordnerd]

I am one of those who leased a Leaf and just returned it with very low miles - I averaged about 7,500 a year. The car is a joy to drive - very quick and no engine noise. Much quieter than the Prius. Front seat is quite comfortable.  Good for the environment. Nice hatchback and storage for Costco trips. BUT Consumer Reports no longer recommends because of crash test data and unless the terrain you drive is flat, your maximum range will NOT be 80 miles and may not even be 60.  Mine was probably 50 - hard to tell because the range indicator is not accurate (at a full charge it claimed 62 miles).  I live at the top of a mile+ long hill (approximate 600 ft elevation gain) and parts of it are steep. It takes a lot of energy to go up the hill - I'd lose 5 or 6 miles in "range" every time I did; the regenerative breaking system does not capture a like amount going down hill. If you can manage a 50 mile range or you have a second vehicle, the car is great (but for the crash data). But if your daily commute is long or you live in an area with significant hills and no access to another car, I suggest seeing if you can try it out for a week before deciding to buy. Personally, I'll wait for the next generation since the battery size/capacity and corresponding range should be better assuming Nissan intends to keep up with the Chevy Bolt and Tesla 3.

What model year did you have? My Leaf is a 2014, and I routinely get 80+ miles on a charge. I charge once or twice a week, always at home (has worked for over a year now). It won't work for everyone, but I think the current range is workable for a lot of people.

[ClaycordJCA]

2012. I also charged at home. I just tired of running errands on the weekend and having to go home to charge for several hours before I could go out again. If I actually got 80 miles in real world driving conditions, I'd have no complaints.
[/quote]

What model year did you have? My Leaf is a 2014, and I routinely get 80+ miles on a charge. I charge once or twice a week, always at home (has worked for over a year now). It won't work for everyone, but I think the current range is workable for a lot of people.
[/quote]

[forummm]

I am one of those who leased a Leaf and just returned it with very low miles - I averaged about 7,500 a year. The car is a joy to drive - very quick and no engine noise. Much quieter than the Prius. Front seat is quite comfortable.  Good for the environment. Nice hatchback and storage for Costco trips. BUT Consumer Reports no longer recommends because of crash test data and unless the terrain you drive is flat, your maximum range will NOT be 80 miles and may not even be 60.  Mine was probably 50 - hard to tell because the range indicator is not accurate (at a full charge it claimed 62 miles).  I live at the top of a mile+ long hill (approximate 600 ft elevation gain) and parts of it are steep. It takes a lot of energy to go up the hill - I'd lose 5 or 6 miles in "range" every time I did; the regenerative breaking system does not capture a like amount going down hill. If you can manage a 50 mile range or you have a second vehicle, the car is great (but for the crash data). But if your daily commute is long or you live in an area with significant hills and no access to another car, I suggest seeing if you can try it out for a week before deciding to buy. Personally, I'll wait for the next generation since the battery size/capacity and corresponding range should be better assuming Nissan intends to keep up with the Chevy Bolt and Tesla 3.

What model year did you have? My Leaf is a 2014, and I routinely get 80+ miles on a charge. I charge once or twice a week, always at home (has worked for over a year now). It won't work for everyone, but I think the current range is workable for a lot of people.

My range varies somewhat, but I had 115 on my last charge. And it's somewhat hilly here. The B mode (extra regenerative braking setting available with the 2015 models) helps. And also a lot of it is how efficiently you drive. The more you can keep it to just one white bubble on the power meter the more efficiently you are driving. And you can anticipate stops too so you are slowing down naturally (and using regen) instead of braking. And driving at the speed limit on the freeway (instead of over) really helps efficiency too (with any car). Wind resistance increases with the cube of your vehicle's speed so a small increase in speed wastes a lot of extra energy pushing the air in front of you.

[g-money]

I saw this when he tweeted it - this is the Los Angeles County/Southern Califronia link from CL:

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/search/cta?sort=priceasc&srchType=T&searchNearby=1&nearbyArea=63&nearbyArea=104&nearbyArea=103&nearbyArea=209&nearbyArea=62&nearbyArea=208&min_price=8000&query=nissan+leaf

$8500 and up.