Author Topic: New Zealand Customs have the authority to take and copy your personal device  (Read 5999 times)

en58

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You guys have lost your minds. I'm a US citizen and I live in a border town with Canada. You cant go into Canda if you have had a DUI. Canadian customs searched my car as if I was a smuggler one time., and I cross a lot. The point is that, it is their job. All countries protect their borders.  Some countries like the US have strict drug laws. Australia has strict agricultural laws. Canda has strict gun laws, they will put you in jail in Canada if you bring your gun, even by accident. A county without borders is not a country.

This. NZ is not just a country but an island that already has the advantage of significant geographical isolation. Our primary industry is.... our primary industries. You think we're strict about a phone? Try bringing in random seeds. We have sniffer dogs at the airport looking for plant and animal materials. Meanwhile, we have the ability to prevent people bringing in the problems that exist internationally. We don't want your rabies or heartworm, your politics, your drugs, your freedom campers and visa jumpers, your child porn, your gun problems or your nuclear power. Don't like it? Don't come. We don't care. We might be the weird kid who hangs out in the corner of the international playgroup, but did the weird kid ever actually care about the cool kids???
AnnaGrowsAMustache if you think NZ is perfect, you need to take a better look.  Everyone know that there is no problems in New Zealand. Like the moment you reach there everything stops. Drugs just jump off a shipping container or smuggler abandons his drugs because everyone know there are no drugs in NZ. Child porn does not exist in NZ because they don't use the internet in NZ? Also NZ is a country where 25% is not native born, I'm sure there is a lot of misuse of visas and overstays in NZ, aka visa jumpers.  NZ has its own issues.

en58

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When you engage in certain activities, such as crossing an international border (or traveling in an airplane), you are generally accept a reduction of your normal rights.  In this case, any expectation or right to privacy is reduced.  For example, a law enforcement officer can't normally insist on searching you or inspecting your luggage without probable cause, but we all accept that our bags will be x-rayed and maybe opened if we want to travel on a commercial aircraft. 

When you cross an international border, a country generally doesn't have a high threshold (like probable cause) to be able to search your luggage or ask you questions about the purpose of your trip.  A country can have plenty of legitimate reasons to search your luggage for things like controlled substances, banned agricultural goods, and evidence that you are an intending immigrant rather than a short term visitor.  And unlike most other interactions with law enforcement and government, the general principle of "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't really apply.  When you ask for permission to cross a border, you more or less have to prove your good intentions rather than have them prove that you have bad intentions. More invasive searches, such as cavity searches have a higher threshold. 

If you accept that officers at the border have a right to search your suitcase for things like undeclared currency or child pornography, I don't think it is much of a stretch to accept that they have a right to search your computer for evidence of the same things.  Honestly, if officers at the border have reason to think that someone is a drug smuggler or a child sex tourist, I'd be completely comfortable with them searching phones and computers. 

In addition, most Customs and Immigration officials in most countries don't have the time or inclination to do more than a cursory search without a good reason.  And most countries want to encourage tourism.  I can't imagine officials in New Zealand will be searching every phone and computer when a 747 or A380 lands.  Believe me, it is highly unlikely that there is anything on your phone or computer that is going to be interesting to a stranger.  If you are the truly rare individual for whom there is, or you have highly sensitive proprietary information, there are ways to protect it.  And don't assume that this kind of search can't bring results.  Most criminals aren't exactly Danny Ocean or Simon Templar. 

Of course, if you are so concerned for your privacy, there is a completely legitimate answer, and that is to not travel (and if you're an American citizen to stay more than 100 miles from the border).  I don't think New Zealand's policy is much different from any other country's. 

That doesn't mean that this kind of law/policy can't be abused.  I've had some bad experiences at borders, mostly in the U.S.  I accept the right of officials at borders to inspect and question, but I do expect professionalism and reasonable courtesy.   


+1 Agree 100%

OtherJen

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When you engage in certain activities, such as crossing an international border (or traveling in an airplane), you are generally accept a reduction of your normal rights.  In this case, any expectation or right to privacy is reduced.  For example, a law enforcement officer can't normally insist on searching you or inspecting your luggage without probable cause, but we all accept that our bags will be x-rayed and maybe opened if we want to travel on a commercial aircraft. 

When you cross an international border, a country generally doesn't have a high threshold (like probable cause) to be able to search your luggage or ask you questions about the purpose of your trip.  A country can have plenty of legitimate reasons to search your luggage for things like controlled substances, banned agricultural goods, and evidence that you are an intending immigrant rather than a short term visitor.  And unlike most other interactions with law enforcement and government, the general principle of "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't really apply.  When you ask for permission to cross a border, you more or less have to prove your good intentions rather than have them prove that you have bad intentions. More invasive searches, such as cavity searches have a higher threshold. 

If you accept that officers at the border have a right to search your suitcase for things like undeclared currency or child pornography, I don't think it is much of a stretch to accept that they have a right to search your computer for evidence of the same things.  Honestly, if officers at the border have reason to think that someone is a drug smuggler or a child sex tourist, I'd be completely comfortable with them searching phones and computers. 

In addition, most Customs and Immigration officials in most countries don't have the time or inclination to do more than a cursory search without a good reason.  And most countries want to encourage tourism.  I can't imagine officials in New Zealand will be searching every phone and computer when a 747 or A380 lands.  Believe me, it is highly unlikely that there is anything on your phone or computer that is going to be interesting to a stranger.  If you are the truly rare individual for whom there is, or you have highly sensitive proprietary information, there are ways to protect it.  And don't assume that this kind of search can't bring results.  Most criminals aren't exactly Danny Ocean or Simon Templar. 

Of course, if you are so concerned for your privacy, there is a completely legitimate answer, and that is to not travel (and if you're an American citizen to stay more than 100 miles from the border).  I don't think New Zealand's policy is much different from any other country's. 

That doesn't mean that this kind of law/policy can't be abused.  I've had some bad experiences at borders, mostly in the U.S.  I accept the right of officials at borders to inspect and question, but I do expect professionalism and reasonable courtesy.   


+1 Agree 100%

Yes. And don’t live anywhere in Michigan, Maine, Hawaii, or Florida as the entire land mass of those states is within 100 miles of an international border or waterway and is thus considered border zone. I’ve never been stopped by CBP when not returning from Canada, but it does happen.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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You guys have lost your minds. I'm a US citizen and I live in a border town with Canada. You cant go into Canda if you have had a DUI. Canadian customs searched my car as if I was a smuggler one time., and I cross a lot. The point is that, it is their job. All countries protect their borders.  Some countries like the US have strict drug laws. Australia has strict agricultural laws. Canda has strict gun laws, they will put you in jail in Canada if you bring your gun, even by accident. A county without borders is not a country.

This. NZ is not just a country but an island that already has the advantage of significant geographical isolation. Our primary industry is.... our primary industries. You think we're strict about a phone? Try bringing in random seeds. We have sniffer dogs at the airport looking for plant and animal materials. Meanwhile, we have the ability to prevent people bringing in the problems that exist internationally. We don't want your rabies or heartworm, your politics, your drugs, your freedom campers and visa jumpers, your child porn, your gun problems or your nuclear power. Don't like it? Don't come. We don't care. We might be the weird kid who hangs out in the corner of the international playgroup, but did the weird kid ever actually care about the cool kids???
AnnaGrowsAMustache if you think NZ is perfect, you need to take a better look.  Everyone know that there is no problems in New Zealand. Like the moment you reach there everything stops. Drugs just jump off a shipping container or smuggler abandons his drugs because everyone know there are no drugs in NZ. Child porn does not exist in NZ because they don't use the internet in NZ? Also NZ is a country where 25% is not native born, I'm sure there is a lot of misuse of visas and overstays in NZ, aka visa jumpers.  NZ has its own issues.

I never said NZ doesn't have issues. We certainly aren't perfect. We don't have the degree of those problems that other places have, not by a long shot. That's because we're relatively isolated, with a small population. Anyway, I should have made that clearer.

And things kind of do stop when you reach NZ.... some places still have weekend store closings.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!