Author Topic: New member - My FIRE Plan  (Read 2907 times)

G-String

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New member - My FIRE Plan
« on: November 26, 2018, 09:38:09 AM »
Hello

I am a long time reader, first time poster.  I’ve read most of the posts in this forum, going back several years so am familiar with the philosophy.  It is great to see there are others who are frugal like me, and who wish to retire early and achieve financial independence.  I’d like to share my plan with you all for your thoughts and feedback.

I just turned 40 and am single with a long-time girlfriend. We both own our a separate home.  My home has a market value of $435k and I have an outstanding mortgage of $235k on it.  I currently work with the federal public service and will be able to retire as early as age 50 which is my goal.  Yearly salary is approximately $95k. Below is the yearly defined benefit pension I would receive (is indexed for cost of living) depending on age of retirement:
•   Age 50: $35,000
•   Age 51: $39,000
•   Age 52: $43,000
•   Age 53: $47,000
•   Age 54: $51,000
•   Age 55: $56,000

Right now, I have approximately $50k in RRSP’s and 70k in TFSA’s for a total of $120k in investments.  These are in TD e-series mutual funds with approximately 85% in equities and 15% bonds.  I continue to contribute $1200/month to these investments ($600 towards each).  I have an emergency fund of approximately $30k.  In addition, I contribute $300/month to a new car fund, which has about $5k in it at the moment.  My current car is a 2005 Toyota Corolla which I plan on keeping another 3-5 years as it only has 125,000 kilometres on it. 

While I have a great job that I am very appreciative of, the daily grind is not something I will miss.  I recently bought a bike and commute to work (30 minutes each way), instead of taking public transit.  My plan is to retire at age 50 or 51 with my thinking that my investments (RRSP and TFSA) will top up my pension to a reasonable income to sustain my current standard of living; by then I will no longer be contributing to my investments and the mortgage will be paid off or close to being paid off, or I may decide to downsize at that time.  While I know things can change, at this point working the extra 3-4 years isn’t worth the extra money, even though I realize the pension really increases significantly every extra year. 

I’d appreciate your thoughts on my plan. 
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 10:15:32 AM by Garrett B. »

letsdoit

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Re: New member - My FIRE Plan
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2018, 10:10:14 AM »
it looks like you've put a lot of thought into it

you might be in the accumulation phase, where you just sit and wait for the stash to grow

Glenstache

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Re: New member - My FIRE Plan
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2018, 10:45:55 AM »
Sounds like you are in a great position and have a solid plan. I think the only tweak I would recommend is keeping that Corolla until it won't drive anymore. Those are exceptionally reliable and barring something major, should last much more than the 3-5 years you cite. My last Toyota went away at 280,000 miles (450,000km), and it still had a lot of life left in it.

G-String

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Re: New member - My FIRE Plan
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2018, 11:39:06 AM »
Would anyone consider working the extra 5 years in order to get an extra $21k for life? 

SKL-HOU

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Re: New member - My FIRE Plan
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2018, 11:41:06 AM »
Would anyone consider working the extra 5 years in order to get an extra $21k for life?

What is your expected budget at retirement? I would do the extra 1 maybe 2 years to get a little more but probably not 5.

G-String

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Re: New member - My FIRE Plan
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2018, 11:48:07 AM »
Would anyone consider working the extra 5 years in order to get an extra $21k for life?

What is your expected budget at retirement? I would do the extra 1 maybe 2 years to get a little more but probably not 5.
I think I'd be perfectly fine living on $3,000/month, which is 36k a year after taxes per month, and probably $2,000/month after the mortgage is paid off. 

That is what I am thinking at the moment as well...plan to retire at 50, but maybe stick around another year or two, if things are going okay at work. 

SKL-HOU

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Re: New member - My FIRE Plan
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2018, 11:49:36 AM »
Would anyone consider working the extra 5 years in order to get an extra $21k for life?

What is your expected budget at retirement? I would do the extra 1 maybe 2 years to get a little more but probably not 5.
I think I'd be perfectly fine living on $3,000/month, which is 36k a year after taxes per month, and probably $2,000/month after the mortgage is paid off. 

That is what I am thinking at the moment as well...plan to retire at 50, but maybe stick around another year or two, if things are going okay at work.

Sounds like a great plan. So you would be able to start receiving the pension as soon as you choose to retire or do you have to wait to a certain age?

Steeze

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Re: New member - My FIRE Plan
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2018, 11:51:07 AM »
Agreed.. depends on your expected spending and what lifestyle options you wants for the next 30-40 years. Expensive or frequent travel? Starting your own business? How will you buy a new car in 20 years? New hobbies, lessons, etc? What about later on... at home nursing care, nursing home? Want to leave anything behind? What about charity? Will you have zero additional income, or is working later on an option if needed?

Have to run the numbers, see how it works for you. Maybe 5 more years is needed, maybe it is a waste of time. Personally I expect my expenses to increase 20-30% in retirement due to health care, travel, and hobbies.

G-String

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Re: New member - My FIRE Plan
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2018, 12:10:11 PM »
Would anyone consider working the extra 5 years in order to get an extra $21k for life?

What is your expected budget at retirement? I would do the extra 1 maybe 2 years to get a little more but probably not 5.
I think I'd be perfectly fine living on $3,000/month, which is 36k a year after taxes per month, and probably $2,000/month after the mortgage is paid off. 

That is what I am thinking at the moment as well...plan to retire at 50, but maybe stick around another year or two, if things are going okay at work.

Sounds like a great plan. So you would be able to start receiving the pension as soon as you choose to retire or do you have to wait to a certain age?
50 is the earliest age I would be eligible for the pension, which is in a little less than 10 years.  Then it goes up every year until age 55, as per the chart in my initial post. 

G-String

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Re: New member - My FIRE Plan
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2018, 12:11:23 PM »
Agreed.. depends on your expected spending and what lifestyle options you wants for the next 30-40 years. Expensive or frequent travel? Starting your own business? How will you buy a new car in 20 years? New hobbies, lessons, etc? What about later on... at home nursing care, nursing home? Want to leave anything behind? What about charity? Will you have zero additional income, or is working later on an option if needed?

Have to run the numbers, see how it works for you. Maybe 5 more years is needed, maybe it is a waste of time. Personally I expect my expenses to increase 20-30% in retirement due to health care, travel, and hobbies.
Definitely like travelling so that is something to consider. 

Milizard

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Re: New member - My FIRE Plan
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2018, 12:30:53 PM »
Would anyone consider working the extra 5 years in order to get an extra $21k for life?
I would, for that ramp up.  I've seen how expensive end of life care can be. Plus, I'm suffering from frugal fatigue right now 

Prairie Stash

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Re: New member - My FIRE Plan
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2018, 01:26:52 PM »
Are you looking to tweak savings? The arbitrary $600 to both TFSA and RRSP sounds like you picked a number and decided to do an even split. We can do optimization :)

For example, you are probably going to run out of TFSA contribution room in the next years (cause you save lots) and then cut down on TFSA while upping your RRSP contributions. At that point, depending on your province, you will end up with enough in your RRSP that the additional income may push you into the same tax bracket for contributing and withdrawing, which is bad of course. Your task, make a spreadhseet and assume average returns on your RRSP, then look at how much it will be worth in retirement. Then, assuming you withdraw 4% a year, will that push you into the same tax bracket you are now in?

The solution is to look at contributing to a taxable account and buy non-taxable investments. Most Canadians ignore the third pillar of retirement savings. Its important to get a balance between all 3 accounts, which does not mean equal amounts. Alternatively, are you planning on ramping on house payments?

I have no idea how much contribution room you have (RRSP or TFSA), the province you live in or any other details to maximize your returns. All I can offer is vague comments and give you something to mull over. If you do the homework though you will see that after retiring you will have a lot to spend; after taxes and discontinuation of savings is accounted for.

To answer your question, I would not work another year for an extra $4k/year for life. My stash is growing with my contributions and returns; assuming average yields and with what I contribute, I get an extra $300/year for life every month ($3600/year) I continue. The longer I go, the bigger the number gets, if I worked till 50 that would be $5000 more for every year I continue after that. We all have the same situation here, how much is enough?

G-String

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Re: New member - My FIRE Plan
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2018, 01:40:52 PM »
Are you looking to tweak savings? The arbitrary $600 to both TFSA and RRSP sounds like you picked a number and decided to do an even split. We can do optimization :)

For example, you are probably going to run out of TFSA contribution room in the next years (cause you save lots) and then cut down on TFSA while upping your RRSP contributions. At that point, depending on your province, you will end up with enough in your RRSP that the additional income may push you into the same tax bracket for contributing and withdrawing, which is bad of course. Your task, make a spreadhseet and assume average returns on your RRSP, then look at how much it will be worth in retirement. Then, assuming you withdraw 4% a year, will that push you into the same tax bracket you are now in?

The solution is to look at contributing to a taxable account and buy non-taxable investments. Most Canadians ignore the third pillar of retirement savings. Its important to get a balance between all 3 accounts, which does not mean equal amounts. Alternatively, are you planning on ramping on house payments?

I have no idea how much contribution room you have (RRSP or TFSA), the province you live in or any other details to maximize your returns. All I can offer is vague comments and give you something to mull over. If you do the homework though you will see that after retiring you will have a lot to spend; after taxes and discontinuation of savings is accounted for.

To answer your question, I would not work another year for an extra $4k/year for life. My stash is growing with my contributions and returns; assuming average yields and with what I contribute, I get an extra $300/year for life every month ($3600/year) I continue. The longer I go, the bigger the number gets, if I worked till 50 that would be $5000 more for every year I continue after that. We all have the same situation here, how much is enough?
Thank you for the great advice.  The $500/month to TFSA (sorry meant to type $500 for TFSA not $600) is based on the maximum allowed by the Canadian government ($6,000 per year).  TFSA is otherwise maxed out.  And the $600/month towards RRSP is just based on what I feel I can afford at the moment.  I usually increase the RRSP a little with every salary increase I get at work.  I do have contribution room in my RRSP's but I see that as okay, because of my defined benefit pension.  My Dad said that too much invested in RRSP can become a problem later in retirement, especially if you have a defined benefit pension plan as you are forced to withdraw from RRSP at a certain age, which can put you into a higher tax bracket; defeating the purpose of the RRSP.   

Mortgage I'm paying off semi-aggressively...it's a 20 year amortization instead of 25 years at the moment.  And I plan on making some lump sum payments once the emergency fund gets bigger then it needs to be. 

Can you please clarify what exactly are non-taxable investments? 
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 01:45:22 PM by Garrett B. »

Prairie Stash

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Re: New member - My FIRE Plan
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2018, 02:24:19 PM »
Thank you for the great advice.  The $500/month to TFSA (sorry meant to type $500 for TFSA not $600) is based on the maximum allowed by the Canadian government ($6,000 per year).  TFSA is otherwise maxed out.  And the $600/month towards RRSP is just based on what I feel I can afford at the moment.  I usually increase the RRSP a little with every salary increase I get at work.  I do have contribution room in my RRSP's but I see that as okay, because of my defined benefit pension.  My Dad said that too much invested in RRSP can become a problem later in retirement, especially if you have a defined benefit pension plan as you are forced to withdraw from RRSP at a certain age, which can put you into a higher tax bracket; defeating the purpose of the RRSP.   

Mortgage I'm paying off semi-aggressively...it's a 20 year amortization instead of 25 years at the moment.  And I plan on making some lump sum payments once the emergency fund gets bigger then it needs to be. 

Can you please clarify what exactly are non-taxable investments? 
$6000 doesn't happen till 2019...hopefully you only do $5500 this year if you have no carryover room in the TFSA.    https://www.taxtips.ca/tfsa/contributions.htm
As always, standard advice is to consult your CRA account for contribution limits at:
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/e-services/e-services-individuals/account-individuals.html

Your dad had a point to consider. Its not an urgent rush but you should understand what he means and see if it will apply to you.

Non-taxable investments are investments that you buy/hold until retirement (a misnomer, it should read delayed minimized taxation, but its non-taxable in your earning years) it can outperform RRSP in certain cases, it will almost always underperform TFSA*. Lets say you buy something from Horizon's ETF offerings, $50,000 worth and hold it until you're 50+.  Much like a TFSA, you pay tax on the initial $50k, so far its even. When you're 50+ though, you also pay tax on the gains when you sell. However, gains tax is funny, you take your gains and muliply it by 50%, so if your investment is $150,000 (100k gains) when you sell you only pay tax on $50k (but get to spend $150k). Of couse you could spread that out over a few years, maybe sell $30k/year and pay tax on the $10k, keeping you in the bottom tax bracket including your pension. This is what your dad was alluding to as the solution, you can contol the amount and timing of selling, you can control the taxes. You can also sit on it till you're 80, you're the boss here.

This is how you get an irregularly large amount without tapping the TFSA and avoiding the RRSP. Its also pertinent to people like you who are destined to run out of contibution room - a pretty awesome problem. Run your own forecast, am I right that you will have to slow down RRSP contributions before you retire? Its just a guess, but its funny how often that happens to people on this forum, its a super saver problem. The solution is to start the taxable before you drain your room so as to optimize the RRSP into the highest tax brackets possible.

Please don't follow my advice blindly, come up with a plan that works for you. Explain to yourself why a non-registered account is unnecessary, if you can articulate the pros and cons then you will get it right. I'm basing everything on a wild guess that you will run out of RRSP room sooner then your retirement date.

*there is a rare case in Ontario where you get negative tax on Canadian dividends where it can decrease taxes, in that case you can technically beat the TFSA (barely)

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Re: New member - My FIRE Plan
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2018, 04:48:56 PM »
Would anyone consider working the extra 5 years in order to get an extra $21k for life?

  I sure would! That's a huge increase for only 5 years of additional work.

 Looks like you could end up with about $500K of RRSP/TFSA, at 4% that's $20k.
$35k + $20k = $55k, IF the market does well.
Also, off the top of my head, $95k-$18k taxes - $14k RRSP/TFSA contributions - $4k car account = $59,000 left to spend. So, you have a slight drop at retirement, to me that extra $21k a year is very inviting.
 $56k + $20k = $76k, now that's enough to buy high quality bed sheets :-)

G-String

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Re: New member - My FIRE Plan
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2018, 08:15:25 AM »
Would anyone consider working the extra 5 years in order to get an extra $21k for life?

  I sure would! That's a huge increase for only 5 years of additional work.
It's a 5% penalty per year if you retire before age 55.  So retiring at age 50 is a 25% penalty.