New Car for Family of Five: here's what I'm thinking

[TheCheuk]

I am trying to determine what the sweet spot of mileage and age of used car to get that will be most Mustachian. We have three kids in carseats. Our 175k mile-1997 Accord is no longer with us as of last week due to an accident (no injuries to humans). We live in a city and drive <5k miles year. We also use the car for a few couple 5 - 10 hour trips each year. I suspect we will replace this in two to five years as we may decide to upsize to a minivan. Eager to hear any thoughts you have as I have just been reading up on this decision that past couple days.

I am thinking we should get something like a 2008 Prius with 110k miles for about $5k. Priuses are generally very reliable. While not huge it is bigger than a Honda Fit or similar, which will be useful for fitting the carseats as well as stuff in the trunk. Also for city driving it gets better gas mileage than a Fit. Also, and I was surprised to see this, the price is pretty comparable between 2008 Priuses and Fits.

2008 seems like the sweet spot as far as age for my situation. A 2012 with similar mileage costs closer to $10k. In four or five years and 20k more miles the 2012 will, I think, depreciate to about $5k, whereas the 2008 will probably still be worth at least $2k.

I do wonder if I should get a 2008 with higher mileage. Given how much we drive, in 5 years the 2008 car with 110k miles car will be about 15 years old but still have fewer than 140k miles. Not many miles for a car of that age, but it might be hard to sell just because it'll be 15 years old. So maybe just start at 150k miles or more so that the mileage will "match the age" better. But I also hesitate to get too many more miles because the likelihood of costly battery replacement increases and because for those long trips I do value reliability. Maybe I'm just used to the old days (1990s) but I hesitate to spend much on a car with over 150k miles! Though I understand that 200k miles is the new 100k miles.

So that's why I'm leaning towards the 2008 with 100k-120k miles.

Thanks for any thoughts you have!

[inline five]

Get a gen 3, 2010+.

Worked out a lot of kinks, better ergonomics inside, etc. Worth the slight premium. We have a 2010 w/ 100k on it.

I doubt however it will fit three car seats. I would buy a used minivan in your situation, hands down.

[shawndoggy]

Three kids in a prius?  Good god man, that's why the minivan was invented.  I'm all for austerity, but this is like saying you've figured out that a big rock is a really inexpensive tool for driving nails.

[CanuckExpat]

I doubt however it will fit three car seats.

Which Car Seats will Fit 3 Across in a Prius:

Kudos to OP for not defaulting to ridiculously large vehicle and considering other options :)

[TheCheuk]

Three kids in a prius?  Good god man, that's why the minivan was invented.  I'm all for austerity, but this is like saying you've figured out that a big rock is a really inexpensive tool for driving nails.

It's very doable! When Baby 3 was born we got two new fancy Swedish car seats that are narrower than the previous two we had so that we could fit three across in our Accord. They were expensive, about $300 each. But cheaper than a mini-van, so I like to exaggerate and brag that those car seats actually saved us $30k - $600. And they've been perfectly adequate for our needs. Granted, we don't drive with the whole family that often and haven't taken all three kids on any multi-hour drives with them. But a very good purchase. And this is why it has me thinking we'll be just fine without a mini-van. For the next few years at least.

[Fishindude]

Three kids in a prius?  Good god man, that's why the minivan was invented.  I'm all for austerity, but this is like saying you've figured out that a big rock is a really inexpensive tool for driving nails.

/\ /\ THIS /\ /\

[slappy]

Three kids in a prius?  Good god man, that's why the minivan was invented.  I'm all for austerity, but this is like saying you've figured out that a big rock is a really inexpensive tool for driving nails.

It's very doable! When Baby 3 was born we got two new fancy Swedish car seats that are narrower than the previous two we had so that we could fit three across in our Accord. They were expensive, about $300 each. But cheaper than a mini-van, so I like to exaggerate and brag that those car seats actually saved us $30k - $600. And they've been perfectly adequate for our needs. Granted, we don't drive with the whole family that often and haven't taken all three kids on any multi-hour drives with them. But a very good purchase. And this is why it has me thinking we'll be just fine without a mini-van. For the next few years at least.

This is exactly our plan!  Even if our current car seats wouldn't work and we had to buy three new seats for each car, that's six seats at $300 each vs. $30k for a bigger vehicle. I know we will want something bigger when they are bigger and need more room, but for now I'll keep my $30k. 

[Incandenza]

two new fancy Swedish car seats

What's the brand?  At some point soon we might try to fit two kids in a Honda fit and one of these might come in handy.

[KCM5]

I don't think you need to get a Gen 3 Prius like an above poster recommended. We have one, it's great. But the Gen 2 was fine. You're driving 5k miles a year, any car that runs and fits your family should be fine.

Get the $5k 1xx,000 mile car. Drive it for a while, sell it for $3k-$4k.

And don't worry about the battery. Most likely it will be fine. The Gen II had a really overbuilt battery. And you can replace one cell at a time quite cheaply. One thing you should be aware of is making sure that the car seats don't block the air intake for the battery. On our Gen III its right by the rear passenger side seat.

[inline five]

This is exactly our plan!  Even if our current car seats wouldn't work and we had to buy three new seats for each car, that's six seats at $300 each vs. $30k for a bigger vehicle. I know we will want something bigger when they are bigger and need more room, but for now I'll keep my $30k.

So your choices are

A) a small, used Prius that will probably pop a battery on you during your ownership or
B) a brand new minivan

I guess there aren't any used, well maintained Siennas or Odysseys in your area.

In general it's cheaper to buy the car you will need long term than two cars. Buy a used minivan now, dump some money into it to get it up to snuff i.e. suspension etc., and keep it for many years. IMO.

Driving under 5k miles a year don't even let fuel economy enter into the equation.

I have a 22 year old wagon that I put about $1500 into last year into replacing the suspension and steering components, new tires etc. Parts alone worth more than the car. But it's great for local stuff.

Alternatively you can get a cheap Prius for around town and rent a minivan on your long trips. If I had a family with three kids that is what I would do.

[Milizard]

This is exactly our plan!  Even if our current car seats wouldn't work and we had to buy three new seats for each car, that's six seats at $300 each vs. $30k for a bigger vehicle. I know we will want something bigger when they are bigger and need more room, but for now I'll keep my $30k.

So your choices are

A) a small, used Prius that will probably pop a battery on you during your ownership or
B) a brand new minivan

I guess there aren't any used, well maintained Siennas or Odysseys in your area.

In general it's cheaper to buy the car you will need long term than two cars. Buy a used minivan now, dump some money into it to get it up to snuff i.e. suspension etc., and keep it for many years. IMO.

Driving under 5k miles a year don't even let fuel economy enter into the equation.

+1

[teamzissou00]

We have three kids, and bought a 2004 Toyota sienna with 122k miles on it (about 4 years ago).  Its now up to 150k miles, and doing great. I think we paid 11k for it (it's the top trim level). 

[TheCheuk]

two new fancy Swedish car seats

What's the brand?  At some point soon we might try to fit two kids in a Honda fit and one of these might come in handy.

There are websites devoted to this so be sure to search around, but we went with:
+ Diono Radian RXT (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005MQRAAK/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1)
+ Combi Cocorro (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KMMRBYS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1)

The Radian is heavy! But considerably narrower than our previous carseat. It is supposed to be especially safe, too (whatever that means).
The Cocorro is very small. Baby is still 3 months but I'm concerned she'll outgrow it before too long. It is nice that it's small because it was a better fit rear-facing than the Diono which also can be installed rear-facing but prevented us from scooting the front seats back.

Just because the website says it will fit does not mean you don't have to scoot the front seats up, so be careful. Amazon did have free return shipping on the seats we bought. But I tried to minimize the chance of needing to take advantage of that.


Thanks for the feedback everyone!

More generally, it seems like a good strategy going forward for someone that doesn't want to worry too much about maintenance and doesn't want to drive a beatup car (which is where the very best values are---before the accident I thought our 1997 Accord was going to make it to my 4 year old's 16th birthday! But it was already getting pretty scuffed up on the outside and bit raggedy on the inside, with a sticky window here and a broken AC knob there that required pliers to turn, etc.) is to get a $5k or so 10-year old car with mileage in the 125,000 area every few years. Depending on your risk tolerance, you don't need to get collision coverage. I'm not sure it's right that you're better off buying one car that will last twice as long.... Depends on whether you're satisfied in always having a ten - fifteen year old car.



I appreciate the feedback

[shawndoggy]

It's very doable! When Baby 3 was born we got two new fancy Swedish car seats that are narrower than the previous two we had so that we could fit three across in our Accord. They were expensive, about $300 each. But cheaper than a mini-van, so I like to exaggerate and brag that those car seats actually saved us $30k - $600. And they've been perfectly adequate for our needs. Granted, we don't drive with the whole family that often and haven't taken all three kids on any multi-hour drives with them. But a very good purchase. And this is why it has me thinking we'll be just fine without a mini-van. For the next few years at least.

Just from the "he's touching me!"  "She's making mean faces at me!" perspective I cannot imagine having three kids in one row of anything.  Not to mention the kicks to the kidneys you'll receive from the backseat passengers once they grow legs. 

I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm just asking why?  Used minivan vs used prius, cost will be in the same ballpark.  OP drives 5000 miles a year, so any fuel savings will be minimal (few hundred bucks at most). 

[Just Joe]

Don't worry about the Prius battery. It is modular. You can buy second hand modules on eBay and replace them individually.

[TheCheuk]

It's very doable! When Baby 3 was born we got two new fancy Swedish car seats that are narrower than the previous two we had so that we could fit three across in our Accord. They were expensive, about $300 each. But cheaper than a mini-van, so I like to exaggerate and brag that those car seats actually saved us $30k - $600. And they've been perfectly adequate for our needs. Granted, we don't drive with the whole family that often and haven't taken all three kids on any multi-hour drives with them. But a very good purchase. And this is why it has me thinking we'll be just fine without a mini-van. For the next few years at least.

Just from the "he's touching me!"  "She's making mean faces at me!" perspective I cannot imagine having three kids in one row of anything.  Not to mention the kicks to the kidneys you'll receive from the backseat passengers once they grow legs. 

I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm just asking why?  Used minivan vs used prius, cost will be in the same ballpark.  OP drives 5000 miles a year, so any fuel savings will be minimal (few hundred bucks at most).

Thanks for this. My kids are still very young and haven't gotten to that stage yet so I didn't even think about it!
And you make a good point about the mpg not mattering much for a car that is driven so little.

Most of the trips in the car are just one person---a minivan just seems so overkill!---but I guess anything more than scooter is usually overkill. So that's not a good reason to not get a minivan.

Used minivans are a couple thousand $ more... but maybe worth it. I will think more about it. Thanks.

[slappy]

This is exactly our plan!  Even if our current car seats wouldn't work and we had to buy three new seats for each car, that's six seats at $300 each vs. $30k for a bigger vehicle. I know we will want something bigger when they are bigger and need more room, but for now I'll keep my $30k.

So your choices are

A) a small, used Prius that will probably pop a battery on you during your ownership or
B) a brand new minivan

I guess there aren't any used, well maintained Siennas or Odysseys in your area.

In general it's cheaper to buy the car you will need long term than two cars. Buy a used minivan now, dump some money into it to get it up to snuff i.e. suspension etc., and keep it for many years. IMO.

Driving under 5k miles a year don't even let fuel economy enter into the equation.

I have a 22 year old wagon that I put about $1500 into last year into replacing the suspension and steering components, new tires etc. Parts alone worth more than the car. But it's great for local stuff.

Alternatively you can get a cheap Prius for around town and rent a minivan on your long trips. If I had a family with three kids that is what I would do.

Haha, that's pretty much exactly what i would say to anyone who said that. Those are not my choices, but they do appear to be the only options if you ask my husband. My preferred option is to keep the 2011 vehicles we currently have and barely drive.  I've actually brought up the idea of renting for when we take longer trips.  That was my response to his claim that we need a bigger vehicle for the once a year we go up north with the kids and the dog.  Why the heck would I base my vehicle purchase on a once a year trip?!?!?!

[Scandium]

two new fancy Swedish car seats

What's the brand?  At some point soon we might try to fit two kids in a Honda fit and one of these might come in handy.

There are websites devoted to this so be sure to search around, but we went with:
+ Diono Radian RXT (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005MQRAAK/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1)
+ Combi Cocorro (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KMMRBYS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1)

The Radian is heavy! But considerably narrower than our previous carseat. It is supposed to be especially safe, too (whatever that means).
The Cocorro is very small. Baby is still 3 months but I'm concerned she'll outgrow it before too long. It is nice that it's small because it was a better fit rear-facing than the Diono which also can be installed rear-facing but prevented us from scooting the front seats back.

Just because the website says it will fit does not mean you don't have to scoot the front seats up, so be careful. Amazon did have free return shipping on the seats we bought. But I tried to minimize the chance of needing to take advantage of that.


Thanks for the feedback everyone!

More generally, it seems like a good strategy going forward for someone that doesn't want to worry too much about maintenance and doesn't want to drive a beatup car (which is where the very best values are---before the accident I thought our 1997 Accord was going to make it to my 4 year old's 16th birthday! But it was already getting pretty scuffed up on the outside and bit raggedy on the inside, with a sticky window here and a broken AC knob there that required pliers to turn, etc.) is to get a $5k or so 10-year old car with mileage in the 125,000 area every few years. Depending on your risk tolerance, you don't need to get collision coverage. I'm not sure it's right that you're better off buying one car that will last twice as long.... Depends on whether you're satisfied in always having a ten - fifteen year old car.



I appreciate the feedback

I've tried several so-called 3-across seats and not gotten it to work with just two. The Radian was so tall even in our subaru outback wagon the front seat was unusable! Returned. Clek supposed to be doable, but I never dropped the $400 on it. Have two different chicco's, but nothing will fit next too either, I don't understand how you're supposed to be able to do 3x..?

I've found used minivans with 50k miles for $16k so you can easily pay less with more miles. Considering the amount of stuff five people travel with (what about bikes? Teenagers? Sports equipment??) I'd do that in a heartbeat rather than deal with aggravation of squeezing five into a small car for years and years, but up to you.

[inline five]

Don't worry about the Prius battery. It is modular. You can buy second hand modules on eBay and replace them individually.

If you're willing to do that DIY why not just buy a worn out Toyota or Honda minivan w/ 150k and replace the struts/strut mounts, tie rods, end links and control arms. It'll drive like new for another 150k miles.

[slappy]

two new fancy Swedish car seats

What's the brand?  At some point soon we might try to fit two kids in a Honda fit and one of these might come in handy.

There are websites devoted to this so be sure to search around, but we went with:
+ Diono Radian RXT (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005MQRAAK/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1)
+ Combi Cocorro (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KMMRBYS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1)

The Radian is heavy! But considerably narrower than our previous carseat. It is supposed to be especially safe, too (whatever that means).
The Cocorro is very small. Baby is still 3 months but I'm concerned she'll outgrow it before too long. It is nice that it's small because it was a better fit rear-facing than the Diono which also can be installed rear-facing but prevented us from scooting the front seats back.

Just because the website says it will fit does not mean you don't have to scoot the front seats up, so be careful. Amazon did have free return shipping on the seats we bought. But I tried to minimize the chance of needing to take advantage of that.


Thanks for the feedback everyone!

More generally, it seems like a good strategy going forward for someone that doesn't want to worry too much about maintenance and doesn't want to drive a beatup car (which is where the very best values are---before the accident I thought our 1997 Accord was going to make it to my 4 year old's 16th birthday! But it was already getting pretty scuffed up on the outside and bit raggedy on the inside, with a sticky window here and a broken AC knob there that required pliers to turn, etc.) is to get a $5k or so 10-year old car with mileage in the 125,000 area every few years. Depending on your risk tolerance, you don't need to get collision coverage. I'm not sure it's right that you're better off buying one car that will last twice as long.... Depends on whether you're satisfied in always having a ten - fifteen year old car.



I appreciate the feedback

I've tried several so-called 3-across seats and not gotten it to work with just two. The Radian was so tall even in our subaru outback wagon the front seat was unusable! Returned. Clek supposed to be doable, but I never dropped the $400 on it. Have two different chicco's, but nothing will fit next too either, I don't understand how you're supposed to be able to do 3x..?

I've found used minivans with 50k miles for $16k so you can easily pay less with more miles. Considering the amount of stuff five people travel with (what about bikes? Teenagers? Sports equipment??) I'd do that in a heartbeat rather than deal with aggravation of squeezing five into a small car for years and years, but up to you.

Diono sells a wedge for the radian that is supposed to adjust the angle and give you a few extra inches of space.

[acroy]

Agree for your need, maybe consider a minivan. I thought the Honda / Toyota's were overpriced and purchased (and had a great experience with) a Nissan Quest.
As far as a Prius: from what I hear, they are rock-solid reliable.

[SimpleCycle]

I think it's bizarre that people are telling OP he "needs" a minivan.  How non-Mustachian!  The idea is to question everything.

OP, I'll question you in the other direction - why not a used older Accord or Camry instead of the Prius?  At your driving pattern the hybrid gas savings will be minimal, and maintenance/repair costs are lower with a non-hybrid.

I absolutely think three kids in a sedan is doable, especially if your main driving is without the whole family.  Obviously you've been doing three across for three months and know how it works.  If we have a third, we'll put a Radian with angle adjuster in the middle spot of our Corolla and KOKO.  Maybe at some point we'll feel like it doesn't meet our needs anymore, but right now a minivan feels like overkill.

I like your style. :)

[SimpleCycle]

I've found used minivans with 50k miles for $16k so you can easily pay less with more miles. Considering the amount of stuff five people travel with (what about bikes? Teenagers? Sports equipment??) I'd do that in a heartbeat rather than deal with aggravation of squeezing five into a small car for years and years, but up to you.

Bikes go on a rear rack.  Teenagers are very experienced at fitting 17 people in the back seat when with friends, so three should fit fine.  Sports equipment in the trunk.

[Scandium]

I've found used minivans with 50k miles for $16k so you can easily pay less with more miles. Considering the amount of stuff five people travel with (what about bikes? Teenagers? Sports equipment??) I'd do that in a heartbeat rather than deal with aggravation of squeezing five into a small car for years and years, but up to you.

Bikes go on a rear rack.  Teenagers are very experienced at fitting 17 people in the back seat when with friends, so three should fit fine.  Sports equipment in the trunk.

yeah ok, have fun. Going to the beach with one kid we maxed out the wagon. Two (or more) older kids I don't even want to imagine.. An extra $5k for a car you'll keep 10+ years, for an insanely larger utility from it? Home depot trips, road trip over flying, whole family + grandparents all in one car, actually fitting the dog etc etc. Not a question in my book. But knock yourself out.

Heck, i went on cars.com now and found a 2006 doge minivan with 96 miles for $6k. Or a 06 sienna with 150k for same. $7k for 08 oddysey with 114k miles? If $2,000 is that important to you that you're willing to deal with 3 kids in a tiny hatchback (FYI I own a prius) props to you. But if I had 50% more kids I know I'd prefer to minimize the hassle..

[JayhawkRacer]

Check out the Mazda5 if you're not into the full size minivans. It's kind of a "mini" minivan, and you can find them for reasonable prices several years old (stopped selling in US in 2015). Also see the Kia Rondo in that same vein.

I would probably argue in your situation for the full size minivan, but if you're trying to stay smaller, but still get that van-style efficient layout, these are good cars.

[inline five]

I agree the Mazda 5 minivan would be a good option, just be forewarned, they are pretty cheap and crappy inside. No idea about maintenance costs though. I had one for a week as a rental and it really was pretty crappy, but if I were looking to go as cheap as possible I guess they would work. Keep in mind you're buying something for potentially 5-10 years, do you really want to live with a crappy car for nearly a decade just to save a couple thousand on the initial purchase price?!?

[sequoia]

Three kids in a prius?  Good god man, that's why the minivan was invented.  I'm all for austerity, but this is like saying you've figured out that a big rock is a really inexpensive tool for driving nails.

/\ /\ THIS /\ /\

Is Prius doable to carry 3 car seats, absolutely. Lots of small cars can do this. Heck, in third world countries, you can carry 3 kids, mom and dad on motorcycle. So the question should be how can I make my life and everyone involved easier if I have a choice? The question should not be "can I do it in a smallest/cheapest car I can buy?"

Will it be comfortable? Will you appreciate extra space to carry extra large strollers or big diaper bags? How about carrying a lot of stuffs on long trips? How about the ability to separate the kids for a more peaceful ride? One can ride in back alone, and two in the middle, leaving the middle of the second row seat empty. Or maybe one of the parents wants to ride in the back with the kids?

OP does not drive much so I do not think the cost of gas make that much of a difference between Prius vs minivan.

My vote is get a minivan. You will appreciate the extra room, and so much easier in and out for three kids. Also, the extra room is nice for the adults when trying to secure the kids into the seats.

[nancy33]

the minivan!  I have 3 boys and the ability to separate them on long trips and sometimes even short trips is PRICELESS. I have the 2008 Honda Odyssey touring highly recommend it. You can take all of the kids to Costco, you can haul all kinds of things. It is very safe in crashes as well. It is built like a tank. If you just worked a long shift and are exhausted and have to wait for a kid at practice you can bring a blanket and pillow and sleep in the 3rd row and it is pretty darn comfortable! The thing never breaks down either! It seats 7 so every kid can bring a friend to the movies! Car seats are a breeze, no bending over and hurting your back.

[sequoia]

the minivan!  I have 3 boys and the ability to separate them on long trips and sometimes even short trips is PRICELESS. I have the 2008 Honda Odyssey touring highly recommend it. You can take all of the kids to Costco, you can haul all kinds of things. It is very safe in crashes as well. It is built like a tank. If you just worked a long shift and are exhausted and have to wait for a kid at practice you can bring a blanket and pillow and sleep in the 3rd row and it is pretty darn comfortable! The thing never breaks down either! It seats 7 so every kid can bring a friend to the movies! Car seats are a breeze, no bending over and hurting your back.

We always have pillows in the car (and blankets in the winter). We do not have minivan but we have a big SUV. I have flip the second row forward to create more room, and sleep on the floor while waiting for DW shopping. Very comfy!

[Just Joe]

Don't worry about the Prius battery. It is modular. You can buy second hand modules on eBay and replace them individually.

If you're willing to do that DIY why not just buy a worn out Toyota or Honda minivan w/ 150k and replace the struts/strut mounts, tie rods, end links and control arms. It'll drive like new for another 150k miles.

No complaints with that idea. Some folks are just real attached to whatever kind of vehicle they want to drive.

[Scandium]

I kind of want OP to get a prius, and tell us stories of stuffing three kids and two adults into one for trips.. lol

But if you do get a minivan it seems the Toyota Sienna is the way to go. I'm currently researching this myself, and won't consider any other after reading this.
http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Toyota_Sienna.html
Vastly more reliable than all the others! I'm surprised the Honda is so far down, and traditionally garbage US cars are so high. I don't repair cars for fun, so personally I'm never buying US cars. No matter what hat says. The Nissan and mazdas also appear quite junky.

[aprilchem]

We have three kids (ages 7, 9, and 11) and also have a Prius.  One of my kids is in a low back booster and the 9 year old is in a high back booster.  The 11 year old doesn't need a carseat.  We bought it for my husband's commute (about 65 miles a day) and rarely use it when we are all traveling as a family - we take my Odyssey.

While all 3 kids fit in the back seat, they fight like cats and dogs when they are all scrunched up back there (and they rarely fight otherwise).  It's just too, too squished - nobody has any wiggle room, and eventually somebody elbows someone else and then the yelling starts.

So no, I would not recommend a Prius with 3 kids.   I would recommend a minivan! :)

[Just Joe]

FWIW I have a friend that has bought used Chrysler/Dodge minivans for years. He has them for a very long time (many miles). Very little trouble. cheap on the used car market. Doesn't buy the fancy T&C. He buys the one with the middle comfort package.

I have less worries about Detroit products these days than before. There are a few turkeys out there but we collectively have more research options than ever before too.

Re: online opinions. Depending on what you buy you might find yourself in an online owner's forum where they complain endlessly about their brand specific new/used cars b/c their expectations are so high or they are picky. We just recently bought a used clowncar and I worried we had bought a real mess b/c of the owner's opinions. Then I realized that they were picky, high expectations b/c of the high MSRP on the new ones, and there just weren't alot of people going to that forum to brag about their new purchase and its reliability. It was sort of an opinion distillation mechanism. ;)

[CanuckExpat]

two new fancy Swedish car seats

What's the brand?  At some point soon we might try to fit two kids in a Honda fit and one of these might come in handy.

In case you want to fit three car seats across in a Honda Fit, or use these recommendations for your case: http://www.thecarcrashdetective.com/2014/08/3-across-installations-fit.html/

[CanuckExpat]

Alternatively you can get a cheap Prius for around town and rent a minivan on your long trips. If I had a family with three kids that is what I would do.

Why the heck would I base my vehicle purchase on a once a year trip?!?!?!

Also, no matter what vehicle you get, don't make purchasing decision based on once a year, or special occasion trips. For those needs, you can always Turn a Little Car Into a Big One

We used to have a Honda Fit. We would augment it with e a bike rack on the back, and a roof rack on top, then use as needed.

On one occasion, we ended up doing a weekend beach camping trip with four adults, one baby, and two dogs. Was able to fit everyone and all the stuff comfortably: two adults in the front, two adults + baby in backseats, two dogs in hatch area, all stuff in cargo pod  (granted, two of the adults were smaller ~5 feet, the baby was quite small ~few months, and the dogs were small ~ 15lbs each, but you can always make something work for special occasion).

[TheCheuk]

OP here. Thanks for all your input, everyone.

I appreciated the point that for low-mileage drivers, the mpg of a car is less important. It is easy to put too much weight on fuel efficiency when evaluating the price efficiency of a vehicle.

MPG can be important even for low-mileage drivers
But even for a low-mileage driver the difference in fuel costs between a Prius and minivan can be substantial. For city driving, a Prius gets at least double the mpg of a minivan, which means half the fuel costs. If you're driving 500 miles/month (6000 mi/year) you're saving about $30 or over $350 a year at the low-end, which is well over one-third of the cost of owning the vehicle (under reasonable assumption that a $5k used Prius will last a low-mileage driver at least five years). (Now, is the $350 savings a year worth the discomfort of fitting three kids into the back seat of a Prius? I'm getting the sense many Mustachians here don't think so.)

Infrequent Usage Cases Can Matter
Another push back against the idea of not buying a car with the once/year trip in mind. In my case it is *for Mustachian reasons* that the infrequent long trips that are pushing me towards a minivan. Again, I'm looking at buying a vehicle cars at the price of  <=$1000 per year of use (so a $5k used car that will last me at least five years). It looks like renting a mini-van for a week costs $700.

[sequoia]

OP here. Thanks for all your input, everyone.

MPG can be important even for low-mileage drivers
But even for a low-mileage driver the difference in fuel costs between a Prius and minivan can be substantial. For city driving, a Prius gets at least double the mpg of a minivan, which means half the fuel costs. If you're driving 500 miles/month (6000 mi/year) you're saving about $30 or over $350 a year at the low-end, which is well over one-third of the cost of owning the vehicle (under reasonable assumption that a $5k used Prius will last a low-mileage driver at least five years). (Now, is the $350 savings a year worth the discomfort of fitting three kids into the back seat of a Prius? I'm getting the sense many Mustachians here don't think so.)

This may or may not apply to you, depending on how much work do you intend to do yourself with your car. For me, I stay out of Prius because the battery technology is enough to scare me - I do my own maintenance, so the simpler the car, the better for me. Now if I gotta to drive 20K/year, then I may spend time reading up on how to fix Prius, or I just get a Corolla and call it a day. If you do not work on the car on your own, does your trusty mechanic able to handle Prius? I do not take my car to local dealership due to high cost. Having said that, I am pretty sure my local mechanic may not have the knowledge to fix Prius. If you have to take your Prius to dealer, then that $350 saving may not last long. Also, this is coming from a guy that does not know anything about battery technology, so I could be very off base here. If the batteries need to be replaced, how much does that cost (the battery itself + install)? At some point, I would imagine the batteries will need to be replaced right?

The saving from gas between Prius vs minivan may not be as much as you think... just something to consider here.

[Optimiser]

This may or may not apply to you, depending on how much work do you intend to do yourself with your car. For me, I stay out of Prius because the battery technology is enough to scare me - I do my own maintenance, so the simpler the car, the better for me. Now if I gotta to drive 20K/year, then I may spend time reading up on how to fix Prius, or I just get a Corolla and call it a day. If you do not work on the car on your own, does your trusty mechanic able to handle Prius? I do not take my car to local dealership due to high cost. Having said that, I am pretty sure my local mechanic may not have the knowledge to fix Prius. If you have to take your Prius to dealer, then that $350 saving may not last long. Also, this is coming from a guy that does not know anything about battery technology, so I could be very off base here. If the batteries need to be replaced, how much does that cost (the battery itself + install)? At some point, I would imagine the batteries will need to be replaced right?

The saving from gas between Prius vs minivan may not be as much as you think... just something to consider here.

Prius has the lowest maintenance costs over 10 years according to this study, even compared to non-hybrids such as the Corolla. Add to that the low cost of fueling it, and it is hard to beat as far as being cheap to own.

[A440]

OP,

I would check alternate sources for renting a minivan, because $700 seems like a lot.  There may be a local automotive shop that rents on the side or even friends who would be willing to loan you their minivan for a week for a lot less.  Our local place rents sedans for $20/day--they don't seem to have any minivans right now.  Even from a regular rental place, last year we spent a hundred and something for a small SUV for 4 days.  We got the SUV just to be sure that the carseats would fit, since you don't always have a guarantee of the exact model with the rental places.

We have a minivan and a Prius.  The 3 kids go three across in the minivan, but mostly because my husband drives it, and he takes them to daycare.   They are still small so we haven't taken them for big trips, but as we get everyone out of diapers reliably, I would consider throwing them in the back of the Prius for longer trips.   (The diapers and all the extra changes of clothes end up taking up a ton of space).  Yes sometimes there is whining.    We have the minivan mostly because it was a cheap deal from family members, and we are thinking about replacing it with something smaller.

Good luck with your decision!

[sequoia]

Prius has the lowest maintenance costs over 10 years according to this study, even compared to non-hybrids such as the Corolla. Add to that the low cost of fueling it, and it is hard to beat as far as being cheap to own.

This article right?
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1104478_toyota-prius-hybrid-is-cheapest-car-over-10-years-that-you-can-buy

OP is talking about 2008 which is a 9 (almost 10 yr) old car. So this article means very little since the data is for the first 10 years, unless I am missing something here. If OP is buying a new car and keeping it for 10 yr, then it matter.

Also from that article, which I think matter more for this discussion: "Regardless of the specific model, YourMechanic found that maintenance costs tend to increase by $150 each year over the first 10 years of a vehicle's life. At around 12 years, costs rise more dramatically, peaking at an average $2,000 per year in later years.".

From cost perspective, I would rather have a simpler - older car to fix, regardless if I am fixing the car myself or some local mechanic. Even if the car has low miles, various parts will fail due to age, rubber gets brittle etc etc. The difference is going to be the cost of parts, and the cost to install them.

[Barbaebigode]

It's a bit weird that the low mileage driven by the OP seems to be a point for buying a larger vehicle. IMO spending more to purchase and maintain something that will be used sparsely (on full capacity at least) is a downside that is being brushed aside here. 

Just my two cents.

[shawndoggy]

It's a bit weird that the low mileage driven by the OP seems to be a point for buying a larger vehicle. IMO spending more to purchase and maintain something that will be used sparsely (on full capacity at least) is a downside that is being brushed aside here. 

Just my two cents.

point being that the fuel expense is really negligible.  and given the light use, increased maintenance costs should be negligible too.

Kids kicking each other?  Not negligible.
Kids kicking you in the kidneys? Not negligible.
Kids getting friends who also need a ride home from birthday party/practice/play date/whatever?  Not negligible.

Sure the OP could buy a vespa and then daisy chain together some burley bike trailers and tell us about how he burns 3 gallons of gas a month. 

[CanuckExpat]

Sure the OP could buy a vespa and then daisy chain together some burley bike trailers and tell us about how he burns 3 gallons of gas a month.

People are getting soft around here. You jump straight to Vespa when OP could/should be doing it in an electric bike, or just a regular bike

More seriously, if the OP doesn't want to waste extra gas, that's good for everyone. Let's encourage OP, not dissuade them. If more people thought like OP, imagine how much better things would be for everyone.

Now back to large family bike carrying:


Back to your regularly schedule programming about why OP needs a minivan :)

[SimpleCycle]

I keep coming back to this post wondering if I'm actually on the clown car promotion forums.

[shawndoggy]

haha that pic is awesome.  I want to see the one where it's sleeting and 37* in the dark at 5:30 p.m. in december.

[Barbaebigode]

It's a bit weird that the low mileage driven by the OP seems to be a point for buying a larger vehicle. IMO spending more to purchase and maintain something that will be used sparsely (on full capacity at least) is a downside that is being brushed aside here. 

Just my two cents.

point being that the fuel expense is really negligible.  and given the light use, increased maintenance costs should be negligible too.

I understood the point, I just think that it is being brushed aside the fact that OP almost never drives with the car full. And also, what's negligible or not is a matter of opinion. I just tried to offer a counter point against the predominant view.

Kids kicking each other?  Not negligible.
Kids kicking you in the kidneys? Not negligible.
Kids getting friends who also need a ride home from birthday party/practice/play date/whatever?  Not negligible.

Buying a big car because your kids are misbehaving is an option. It's not the only option though.

Sure the OP could buy a vespa and then daisy chain together some burley bike trailers and tell us about how he burns 3 gallons of gas a month.

Why not a rickshaw? Then he/she could offset the lost calories with spoonfulls of bulk bought olive oil.

[shawndoggy]

Buying a big car because your kids are misbehaving is an option. It's not the only option though.

Yes there's always the option of "if you don't knock it off we're pulling this car over right now and ..."  In fact I'd argue that you aren't a "real" american parent until you've uttered (or at least considered) these words on a long road trip.  Though I might be too old, given that I remember the days of roadtripping with kids before the advent of the DVD player (now superseded by the tablet).

Point being, show me someone who says their children always behave, and I'll show you a liar. 

LOL Rickshaw!  Think of all the money that could be saved on protein too if you stop to pull over and pick up fresh roadkill.

[Beegee]

Hi!  I had to pop in (I've never posted before) to say, we have three Diono Radians across the backseat of our Mazda 3 (a small sedan).  Kids are aged 2, 4 and 6.  Love it, works great.  Sure, it might get tight when they're older, but they also won't be in these carseats for forever.  We don't drive much throughout the week, but for vacations we have done many long roadtrips (around 7-8 hours to get to our destination) in this arrangement.  Who needs a minivan when you love driving a small, manual transmission car?  Don't size up if you don't want to!

Aww, my first post.  I found MMM in early 2014.  Hi everybody! 

[Chris22]

It's a bit weird that the low mileage driven by the OP seems to be a point for buying a larger vehicle. IMO spending more to purchase and maintain something that will be used sparsely (on full capacity at least) is a downside that is being brushed aside here. 

Just my two cents.

The small amount of gas aside, there is little or no incremental cost to driving a minivan over a Prius, nor is there a significant difference in running cost of a fully laden minivan versus a lightly loaded one.  In fact, I'll wager minivans might be cheaper to run in some aspects like insurance, and parts and labor for domestics tend to be a little cheaper.  We don't pay per square foot for vehicles, bigger doesn't necessarily cost more.

[SimpleCycle]

I was driving today and thinking of this thread.  I'm wondering if the people suggesting a bigger car live more car heavy lifestyles than the OP.  At 5k miles a year, most of it without all three children in the car, I think a small sedan is totally adequate.  It's a matter of preference more than anything else.  I can't imagine parallel parking a minivan on the regular, and our church (one of the main places we drive) only has street parking.  Our home parking spot is easier in a small car as well.

We practice a lot of "how to make a small car big".  I realize you don't pay by the square foot, but I have an efficiency aesthetic that leans toward small cars.