New car (Honda Fit)

[T-Money$]

I'm all about purchasing a used car.  I've decided on a Honda Fit because they hold their value, get great gas mileage and over the long-term are the cheapest to own and operate.

Unfortunately, I can not find a used Fit worth anything.  I've looked across state lines, I've seen cars that haven't been serviced properly, make funny noises or are sold within a few hours of the seller's listing them online.  There aren't many used Fit's available.

Certified Pre-Owned is another option, but these cars aren't discounted much more than a new Honda Fit...and the previous years models get not quite as good gas mileage. 

I'd also look for a Scion xA or xD, a decent Civic, etc.  But, I run into the same issue.  Many people don't take good care of their vehicles.  And, I don't trust dealers (especially used ones).

What to do?  I'm a Mustachian but I hear a new Honda Fit calling my name.

P.S. -- First time poster, long time lurker.  Home will be paid off in December.  I'm really pleased with Mr. Money Mustache and the forums.  Outstanding stuff that has ensured financial stability for my family.

[retiringearly]

If you want to buy a new Fit, I would use the Costco or Sam's Club car buying programs.  That will give you a prenegotiated price that becomes the maximum you will pay.  Take that price to other dealers and ask them to beat it.

I have owned 4 cars in my life.  Three were purchased used.  I maintain my cars religiously and try to keep them as long as possible.

I have no issues buying a new car if I intend to keep it for a really long time.

[Monocle Money Mouth]

If you want a Fit badly, just get the new one. The new ones have better engine/transmission options and the interiors are nicer too. My wife and I have a 2012 and 2013 Fit. They are just OK cars. They can get really good fuel economy, especially on long road trips. I've gotten 44+ MPG, but they are noisy and have weak AC when the car is idling in traffic. The acceleration also sucks.

They are not perfect and indestructible either just because they are Hondas. My wife and I have both had warranty work done. Her's had a wheel bearing go bad. Mine had a dead battery 2 months after I bought it and the AC system on mine needed a new compressor clutch.

If you like to do your own work, be aware that the front jack point is really far away from the front end of the car. It's behind the engine and transmission, so you either need a really long and low jack, or you will be driving up on to 2x4's to get a jack underneath it. I'm not sure if that has changed for the 2015+ models.

I don't hate the car, and I plan on keeping it for at least 7 more years, but after owning one, I will definitely look for something quieter, more powerful, and roomier when I need to replace it.

[AdrianC]

I'd definitely look at a Mazda 3 hatchback. I looked at Fits and the 3 and bought the 3. Bigger, faster, better gas mileage, just all around a better choice for us.

[T-Money$]

I did drive a Fit and was disappointed, although it wasn't as bad as driving a Prius.

The reason for this car is my VW Golf TDI that gets 55 mpg but also releases unacceptable levels of NOx will be given back to VW for a very handsome price in November. 

What other hatchbacks should I look into these days?


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[retiringearly]

I'd definitely look at a Mazda 3 hatchback. I looked at Fits and the 3 and bought the 3. Bigger, faster, better gas mileage, just all around a better choice for us.

Mazda makes a great vehicle.  I currently have a Mazda6 and I love it.  40 MPG on the highway if I do 65 mph.

[Carless]

I owned a fit until I sold it, and loved the car.  A bit slow on acceleration when it was full but who cares?  The only place you ever noticed was getting on to the highway.  They bought a mazda 3, which I drove over the winter... it has horrible handling in the snow.  Parking with snow on the ground was far worse than with my fit, and the highway was downright scary. I would never buy one for that reason alone.

[mountains_o_mustaches]

Don't buy a new car - go back and (re)read this article by MMM: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/11/28/new-cars-and-auto-financing-stupid-or-sensible/

And then these ones for good measure:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/19/top-10-cars-for-smart-people/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/18/is-it-convenient-would-i-enjoy-it-wrong-question/

I'm sure you can find a used Honda Fit (or other reasonable car) given enough patience through Craigslist or something similar.  The car may not be 100% maintained to your liking, but my guess is any repairs / maintenance you need to pay for at the outset is way less than the depreciation that occurs the moment you drive your brand new 2016/2017 Honda Fit off the lot.  Of course if the cost of the repairs are more expensive than that don't buy it  - wait for another to come along.

Getting things brand new are fun and sparkly and in our consumerists society we make it a heck of a lot easier (read convenient) to buy things that way - don't give in - you'd just be flushing money down the toilet!

[AdrianC]

I owned a fit until I sold it, and loved the car.  A bit slow on acceleration when it was full but who cares?  The only place you ever noticed was getting on to the highway.  They bought a mazda 3, which I drove over the winter... it has horrible handling in the snow.  Parking with snow on the ground was far worse than with my fit, and the highway was downright scary. I would never buy one for that reason alone.

There's no reason to believe that a Mazda 3 would be any worse in snow than any other front wheel drive compact, assuming the tires were the same. I suspect your tires.

[patchyfacialhair]

I did drive a Fit and was disappointed, although it wasn't as bad as driving a Prius.

The reason for this car is my VW Golf TDI that gets 55 mpg but also releases unacceptable levels of NOx will be given back to VW for a very handsome price in November. 

What other hatchbacks should I look into these days?


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Surprised you didn't like the Prius. I got one as a rental car once and was quite surprised with the quickness.

Although my points of reference are a Wrangler and Camry...so...not very quick cars...

Your house is almost paid off. Buy it new; keep it for 15 years.

[Dancing Fool]

I owned a fit until I sold it, and loved the car.  A bit slow on acceleration when it was full but who cares?  The only place you ever noticed was getting on to the highway.  They bought a mazda 3, which I drove over the winter... it has horrible handling in the snow.  Parking with snow on the ground was far worse than with my fit, and the highway was downright scary. I would never buy one for that reason alone.

There's no reason to believe that a Mazda 3 would be any worse in snow than any other front wheel drive compact, assuming the tires were the same. I suspect your tires.

Yep, I own a 2007 mazda 3 and the stock tires when my parents bought it (in '07, new) were terrible on snow. I suspect the tires as well.

OP, only recommendation I have if you're buying new is to use edmunds, autotrader, and/or another car research site to make sure you know what a fair price for the new car is (it's always well below MSRP). Also look over the contract carefully, some dealers try to tack on silly amounts of charges on top of the sales price they quote you (~$2k on my friend's Civic before she negotiated them down to 0 - for things like cargo mats and window tint).

[GreenSheep]

I just bought a used Honda Fit and had a good experience with Carmax; they have several of them in stock around the country and can ship them to your closest location (for a fee, depending on how far the vehicle is shipped, but it was worth the $200 to me). This was my second Carmax purchase, and the first one went well. I had both vehicles inspected by their respective brand name dealerships just after purchasing (within the window during which I could have returned them), and they checked out just fine. For me it was a nice way to get a used car without the hassle of a dealership or the multiple unknowns involved with purchasing from a private owner. Good luck finding your Fit! I love mine! People think I'm crazy for going from a BMW SUV to a roller skate, but I tell them I'm going to drive it straight into early retirement.

[The Fake Cheap]

Sort of in the same boat here, I'm keeping my eye on used cars so I can have an idea of pricing for when/if my soon to be 10 year old Suzuki bites the dust.  The Honda Fit would be near the top of my list for a used replacement, but there are very few used available around here.  So I'm likely going to go for my other option which is the Mazda 3 hatch.

Personally I have no issues with you buying a new car as long as you plan to keep it 10+ years and your financial situation supports the new purchase.  Like others have said don't be afraid to negotiate hard, and knock more off the price.  When we bought the above Suzuki new (pre MMM) the dealer even told us we could have done better with the price. 

[RethinkTheRatRace]

I did drive a Fit and was disappointed, although it wasn't as bad as driving a Prius.

The reason for this car is my VW Golf TDI that gets 55 mpg but also releases unacceptable levels of NOx will be given back to VW for a very handsome price in November. 

What other hatchbacks should I look into these days?

I'm also in this boat. I love my tdi golf, but the buyback program is just too good. I'm getting back more than double what I bought it for less than a year ago.

I, on the other hand, am going on the opposite end of the spectrum. I've looked for fit's, matrix's, mazda3's, and even some yaris's, but I've settled with a Scion xD with ~100k miles for under $4k. There are quite a few of these on Craigslist, but my wife and I specifically want a stick shift and there aren't any within an hour drive, but I'm okay with going that far to get a car. But, since I haven't received the buyback yet, I'm not going that far to test drive a car that might not be available when I go to buy one. So, I contacted carmax, and they had one shipped from Atlanta to my local dealership for free. The benefit being that this car is ~30k miles, so now I have a solid baseline when I go to test drive these other higher mileage cars. I have zero intention of buying the car from carmax, but the convenience was too much to pass up. Since the announcement of the demise of Scion, I'm sure that more of these cars will pop up with lower than normal prices

[T-Money$]

Thanks for the info.  Always good stuff on this board.

A couple questions.  I like the Scion xD idea.  They are certainly reliable cars, about as useful as a Honda sub-compact and definitely cheaper.  However, even the xD's are difficult to find, a decent one, that is.

Regarding CarMax, their "no haggle" (darn, I love to haggle) sales prices seem about $1,500-$2,000 higher than what I can get through a private/owner sale. 

Regarding the Prius, I owned one a while ago.  I felt like it was slowly sucking my soul.  I live in a colder climate where the combustion engine is needed to keep the cabin warm and defrosting on, so in many months the hybrid part of it seemed mostly unused.  Seemed like a warm weather car to me.  I do get enjoyment from well built and thought out vehicles, probably more so than the average Mustachian. 

I may just try Uber/public transport/wife driving me to work for a while.  I ran some numbers and the best estimate I came up with says it is about as expensive as owning a used sub-compact.  It would obviously be easier just having one car, I may see how we do as a family with that setup for a few months. 

If only car sellers were honest...

[RethinkTheRatRace]

Thanks for the info.  Always good stuff on this board.

A couple questions.  I like the Scion xD idea.  They are certainly reliable cars, about as useful as a Honda sub-compact and definitely cheaper.  However, even the xD's are difficult to find, a decent one, that is.

Regarding CarMax, their "no haggle" (darn, I love to haggle) sales prices seem about $1,500-$2,000 higher than what I can get through a private/owner sale. 

Regarding the Prius, I owned one a while ago.  I felt like it was slowly sucking my soul.  I live in a colder climate where the combustion engine is needed to keep the cabin warm and defrosting on, so in many months the hybrid part of it seemed mostly unused.  Seemed like a warm weather car to me.  I do get enjoyment from well built and thought out vehicles, probably more so than the average Mustachian. 

I may just try Uber/public transport/wife driving me to work for a while.  I ran some numbers and the best estimate I came up with says it is about as expensive as owning a used sub-compact.  It would obviously be easier just having one car, I may see how we do as a family with that setup for a few months. 

If only car sellers were honest...

I agree with the dilemma with carmax pricing. I love to haggle. I find it a very useful skill in my quest for mustachianism. I looked into a Prius as they have not held their value on the used car market. But even with a 100k mile Prius, it's closer to $6-7k and there are two manual Scion xD's on my local Craigslist with 110k miles and 130k miles both for under $4k. As little as I actually drive, it would take me close to a decade for the Prius to make up for the price difference. The scion xA or xB are also solid cars that are undervalued on the used car market. But, as my wife is the primary driver, she has an influence on the car choice, and she likes the xD more than the other options. I was hoping to find an older unaffected tdi golf to replace our current one, but surprisingly, there are none. There are quite a few Jetta's but at this point, the functionality of a hatchback is high on my list.

[Northwestie]

Back to the OP - we were in the same boat, looking for a Fit with about 40k miles on it and finding it difficult.  We did end up buying one from the dealer - certified preowned with a warranty.  I haggle back and forth via email and it worked out to my satisfaction.  Given that my spouse was driving a 1987 Mazda 626 with 250k+ miles on it (odometer broke) we were ok with buying the 3 year old Fit.   
I'd say if you can find a decent used one - as they are in demand - go for a new one and don't sweat it. 

Similarly I was looking for a used Crosstrek and ended up buying new (cash).  My old subie had 200k+ miles, the second head gasket went, and the main seal was on its way out.  So no sense in dropping $2500+ on repairs and waiting for the next shoe to drop.  If your finances are in order (our house is paid for, no debt, maxing out savings for decades) then go ahead and spring for a new one if you wish and don't get weighed down my the MMM zealots.

[RobFIRE]

Some representative figures would be useful here: how much of a $ saving could you make versus the effort to achieve it if you don't buy new. If you intend to keep the car for a long time then the upfront $ cost is less important (e.g. over 10 years and 100k miles the fuel + insurance + servicing + repairs costs are probably 2x the purchase price for a new/nearly new small hatchback).

I agree there is no point in buying a used car with various problems unless you are somebody who likes car maintenance and knows the cost of repairs and will do some of the work yourself.

While the main dealer "certified used" car prices in the UK are higher than other used options, a 2 year old car is normally nearly half price versus new (£14k to £8k based on a quick search of the UK's most popular hatchback), so even if they seem overpriced for what they are, it's still a big discount on new, so in the UK I would not be buying brand new. It seems in the US the difference is less though, so makes brand new look less expensive.

[Pigeon]

I also think if you are buying a relatively inexpensive car that holds its resale value well, buying new and keeping it forever makes sense.  Unless you are willing to buy a significantly older car with over 50K miles, the price differential just isn't there. We have a 2008 Fit that was a gift from my MIL when she stopped driving.  It's useful, can hold an amazing amount of stuff and gets good mileage.  It's not comfortable and the slow acceleration is a little scary at times.  We affectionately call it our go cart with windows. 

The last car we bought was a Toyota Corolla.  We were considering buying a slightly used car a couple of years old, but we ended up buying the new base model loss leader advertised in the local newspaper for the same price as what we were looking at for a used one.

[VladTheImpaler]

Have you considered a used Toyota Prius.
I drove both and bought the Prius because it was made better and got better gas mileage.
The Prius felt less like an economy car to me.

The older Prius models, like an 2008 or '09, are a steal if you can find one with lower miles that has been well maintained.
The Fit is also a very economical car and a great value.
You can't go wrong either way.

[Trudie]

We have a 2007 Honda Fit and love it.  It's had no problems and is at about 80,000 miles.  We bought it new, but will hang onto it until it has to be dragged away.

I recommend the Costco Auto Program and just buy new, but hang onto it for a very long time.

[Roboturner]

I'd definitely look at a Mazda 3 hatchback. I looked at Fits and the 3 and bought the 3. Bigger, faster, better gas mileage, just all around a better choice for us.

exactly what we did, love the Mazda3, we got a standard tranny too. It's got much more zip to it, but the total cabin space is smaller, due to the Fit's boxy body

[mustachioso]

I've also been tempted to buy a Fit but can't justify trading my Nissan Leaf for it.
How long is your daily commute? You can get a truly maintenance free, cheap, green, plush, reliable vehicle in the Leaf for less than 10k if the range fits your lifestyle.

[Spork]

My experience is: used car shopping is feast or famine.  I don't have a clue what the pattern is.  But when I've done it there were either a crapton of cars to chose from or --nothing--. 

If you're set on one car... or one option (for me it was a manual transmission) ... you may just have to wait it out.  It will eventually turn around.

[Fireball]

If you're set on a Honda, maybe look at the Insight Hybrid? Averages 46-47mpg all day long. 2nd gens started in 2010 I believe, so there is somewhat of a used market out there. Either way, just don't buy new.

[rothwem]

I guess this explains why the dealer keeps sending me offers to buy back my 2012 Fit. I did buy it new, and I still love it. So if you do buy a new one, know that you won't be the first one on the board to do so.

Hah, no.  They're sending you those because they want to sell you a car.  Don't worry, they'll lowball you on your Fit just like they would on anything else. 

[Spork]

I guess this explains why the dealer keeps sending me offers to buy back my 2012 Fit. I did buy it new, and I still love it. So if you do buy a new one, know that you won't be the first one on the board to do so.

Hah, no.  They're sending you those because they want to sell you a car.  Don't worry, they'll lowball you on your Fit just like they would on anything else.

...and it's not just a Honda thing.  All the dealers do it.

[KarefulKactus15]

I'd definitely look at a Mazda 3 hatchback. I looked at Fits and the 3 and bought the 3. Bigger, faster, better gas mileage, just all around a better choice for us.

exactly what we did, love the Mazda3, we got a standard tranny too. It's got much more zip to it, but the total cabin space is smaller, due to the Fit's boxy body

I wanted to like the fits, but after test driving, I was disappointed.  My wife had a mazda 3 hatchback and I can confirm that will probably be the next car we get.    (I currently have employer vehicles that I drive, so no cars for me ATM)

[accolay]

Just bought a used Honda Fit and had the same problem. The price was right on Craigslist, but the trade off was that most of them had a good deal over 100k miles, or they had a salvage/rebuilt title which we're not ready to take a chance on. We needed the car now, so we had to buy from the Stealership.

We didn't get a deal, but didn't get screwed either for a 3 year old base model with 27k miles. They hold their value very well. The Fit works fine. It's just your basic "indestructible economy shitbox."  We'll be driving it until it dies.

[KarefulKactus15]

It seems all the Fits in my area have salvage title.

[T-Money$]

I decided to get a 2006 well cared for Honda Element instead of a Fit.  The Element seemed more useful and I like the way it drives.  Manual transmission, FWD drive, nice tires.  MPGs are somewhat lower than the Fit but I don't drive much anyway. 


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[AdrianC]

Excellent choice.

[TheMoneyWizard]

I feel OP's pain. I've been searching high and low for a reasonably priced used Mazda 3, and I'm almost frustrated enough to throw in the towel and go new. Almost.

What I've seen used is either poorly maintained, has a salvaged title, or the pricing offers essentially no discount for the car being used.

If I'm reading his articles correctly, MMM's argument for the inventory effect assumes pre-purchasing miles is detrimental due to the large cash outlay required, or assumes you don't have enough money to purchase a new car in cash. And his argument against 0% APR financing assumes this automatically persuades us to purchase something we otherwise couldn't afford. That's sort of approaching the "humans are zombies" one size fits all approach he often bashes IMO.

If:
a) we can purchase a cheap new car at 0% APR while investing the difference
b) the used car market is showing straight line depreciation based on miles driven, with no additional discount to account for the risk of purchasing a used car
c) we are not yet FIRE'd and thus frequent breakdowns would be detrimental to our careers
d) insurance and registration fees are negligible

then I don't see how purchasing a cheap, new car and driving it for 20 years is a completely facepunch-worthy move.

[MasterStache]

Can't go wrong with a Honda. I own a 2006 Civic. Been great so far.  Excellent gas mileage and I can actually haul quite a bit with it.

[ketchup]

sold within a few hours of the seller's listing them online.

I know you already bought something else, but this has been the key to my craigslist car finds.  You need to be one of those people that buys a car within hours of posting.  Every single car I've ever bought or helped someone buy on craigslist (five total I believe) I bought either the day it was listed, or the day it was re-posted with more info/photos or a lower price.