The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: asauer on December 03, 2015, 06:19:52 AM
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We live in a 'well to do' neighborhood- you know, golf course etc. Most of our neighbors are very nice but non-mustachian. Yesterday, we were chatting about the holidays and they asked me about who I was "giving" to this year. I said family and the two charities that we support (that's all). They went on and on about what they're getting for the babysitter, the mail carrier, the golf staff, teachers, daycare workers etc and implying that I need to be more generous. I mentally added that up and there's no way we're doing that but it did make me feel like kind of an asshole. Has anyone else had this experience?
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First....you're not an a$$hole.
Second, asking about financial issues is bad manners for your neighbor.
I would suggest that it's none of their business what and if you decide to "give".
Some suggested responses:
- "Oh, why do you ask?"
- "Oh, why would you need to know that?"
- "I consider that a private matter and prefer not to discuss it".
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First....you're not an a$$hole.
Second, asking about financial issues is bad manners for your neighbor.
I would suggest that it's none of their business what and if you decide to "give".
Some suggested responses:
- "Oh, why do you ask?"
- "Oh, why would you need to know that?"
- "I consider that a private matter and prefer not to discuss it".
what about
- "Oh, go f@ck yourself'
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I think smile and nod and ignore them is the best solution.
But if you have to say something, here's my vote.
I'm assuming you didn't discuss amounts, so when they suggest all that, say "Oh... Which of the two charities I named should I give less to in order to do that?"
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#cough# first world problems.
Seriously, just nod and smile and then go and play with your exponentially growing Excel spreadsheet whilst they scrape two cents together to cover their car payment.
I had a similar situation where someone told me I HAD TO donate to a company cause. I nodded, donated as I usually do and went on with my day.
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You don't give much details on the conversation, but I find it difficult to come up with a scenario in which your neighbor is doing anything other than bragging. I suppose it's conceivable that they're genuinely advocating for you to give out of their heartfelt concern for the mail carrier, but I really doubt it. Anyway, if someone is bragging about their "generosity," they're the asshole, not you.
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To offer a slightly different perspective, I think it's worth using such questions or conversations, which may be rude or tactless, for a bit of self reflection. I was subjected to a similar exchange in the past few years and had a similar reaction at the time--who was this person to critique my generosity, how dare they, etc. But when cooler heads prevailed, I had to admit that they had a point--I actually was overly stingy and had let my drive for savings, frugality and the like blind me to that fact. I've since increased my giving substantially (though it still has further to go!) and, the funny thing is, haven't really noticed any decrease in savings rate.
My point isn't that you should give more--as with most things, it's really an individual and very personal decision--but rather that it's easy to react and take offense at the foolish/ignorant/rude statements of others. In my eyes, trying to critically examine such statements to improve yourself is really the best come back you make to such onslaughts--they use it as an opportunity to display their negative qualities, you use it as an opportunity to further improve your positive ones.
Just my two cents.
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In my eyes, trying to critically examine such statements to improve yourself is really the best come back you make to such onslaughts--they use it as an opportunity to display their negative qualities, you use it as an opportunity to further improve your positive ones.
Just my two cents.
I'm changing my answer to this.
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Sooo...does anyone give money to their mail carrier, trash collector, others this time of year?
I never have in the past because I find it bizarre that a complete stranger would expect a gift from me for doing their job. But, I do wonder if it makes me an asshole if everyone else is doing it.
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Sooo...does anyone give money to their mail carrier, trash collector, others this time of year?
I never have in the past because I find it bizarre that a complete stranger would expect a gift from me for doing their job. But, I do wonder if it makes me an asshole if everyone else is doing it.
When I was a kid delivering newspapers, some people gave me extra cash for Christmas. Given that I was making 35 cents a week per customer, it was appreciated!
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You are giving too many f*cks...give less f*cks.
Advice applies to most of life.
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Thanks everyone- definitely helped me! And now I have some great lines to use in future.
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I think smile and nod and ignore them is the best solution.
But if you have to say something, here's my vote.
I'm assuming you didn't discuss amounts, so when they suggest all that, say "Oh... Which of the two charities I named should I give less to in order to do that?"
Yeah but I think you are assuming that the neighbors operate under some sort of limit on what they spend/donate :-)
To the OP, they were just bragging. You cant see a 20$ gift to the mail man so they have to tell you about it.
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It's possible they were also trying to figure out if there was a common idea as to amount to give.
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Good people help others all the time and don't feel the need to tell anyone about it.
These folks just want 'credit' for how good and generous they are. :(
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It was poor form to bring it up, but FWIW we do give gift cards to teachers and cash to daycare workers. They work hard and I want to give to them. But considering we only get one paper a week, we don't give anything to newspaper carrier. If I had a friendly relationship with our postal worker, I would give him something.
What to give a 60+ year old male school bus driver? I'm stumped on that one. Somehow a $15 Target or Starbucks gift card doesn't seem like something he would like, although I see him drinking coffee. Maybe some ground coffee and chocolate? This is someone I see twice a day, and he has been driving our kids for 3 years now. I think it's nice to recognize people who care for your children. It's not obligatory, but it's nice.
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What to give a 60+ year old male school bus driver? I'm stumped on that one. Somehow a $15 Target or Starbucks gift card doesn't seem like something he would like, although I see him drinking coffee. Maybe some ground coffee and chocolate? This is someone I see twice a day, and he has been driving our kids for 3 years now. I think it's nice to recognize people who care for your children. It's not obligatory, but it's nice.
Ferrari driving gloves! They start around 100$. Coffee grounds sounds good if he uses a generic insulated travel mug, just nothing to girly or scented.
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Honestly, without knowing him its hard, but I would suspect he would be just as thankful for something as simple as remembering his name, saying thank you for doing a stand up job, and wishing him a merry Christmas.
Coffee grounds is not a bad idea, since I imagine a 65 year old bus driver probably brews his own coffee rather than going to Starbucks, although you would probably know better.
Anyway, we usually give the preschool teachers something, since my wife(teacher) often gets gifts from her students.
Other than family and maybe a close friend or two, thats it.
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Sooo...does anyone give money to their mail carrier, trash collector, others this time of year?
I never have in the past because I find it bizarre that a complete stranger would expect a gift from me for doing their job. But, I do wonder if it makes me an asshole if everyone else is doing it.
This is probably a culture thing, but I get "christmas bonus for the servants" vibes from those kinds of gifts. I do my job, they do their job, we usually treat each other with respect (or mainly ignore each other as much as possible), and I continue to support their fight for decent pay and job security through my voting and union membership. Trash collectors (renovation operators) are having a huge jump in status now, BTW, because of increased recycling. They get better equipment and more training. Urban mining is one of the fastest growing sources of rare minerals and precious metals. This, of course, is reflected in their pay (~$50 000).
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People do often give to those who provide services for them - nanny (babysitter is a bit new, unless you mean a very regular one with set hours), hairdresser, mail carrier, etc. One legitimate solution for this some people avoid making an appointment near the holiday (e.g. hairdresser) - and, of course many MMM'ers never see a hairdresser. I also figure that not many MMM'ers will be regular members at a golf course to worry about it. Some such as postal workers have restriction on what they can accept due to various laws/regulations (http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2012/pb22349/html/cover_025.htm) - and of course, you're much less likely to make them work hard delivering frequent packages. I take my trash to the town transfer station rather than pay for a service, so you may avoid that one as well. (btw I've heard tales of trash collectors marking bins of homes that didn't give, and being less generous towards them with any issues such as overflowing trash, extra trash out one day etc., so keep in mind your likelihood to want to push the rules when deciding to give or not). And you don't need to tip anyone who owns their own business. So you're left with whomever cares for your child if you have one, and it doesn't seem unreasonable to say a small thank you.
That all said, it's not something he needed to ask you about so I'd take it as prying. If you had wanted, you could have expressed surprise he wasn't donating to charities, but you don't really need to respond or engage on it. You could also comment on how you don't use those services.
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Sooo...does anyone give money to their mail carrier, trash collector, others this time of year?
I never have in the past because I find it bizarre that a complete stranger would expect a gift from me for doing their job. But, I do wonder if it makes me an asshole if everyone else is doing it.
This is probably a culture thing, but I get "Christmas bonus for the servants" vibes from those kinds of gifts.
It's like tipping in a restaurant. If everyone does it except you it stands out. I actually receive gifts from some of the people who do work for me. Probably because they want to keep me as their customer. Giving gifts is not a purely altruistic thing. Giving to people who do work for you is a good way to buy some loyalty and motivation.
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Turn it around on them.
Ask what they give the babysitter, mail carrier, golf staff, teachers, daycare workers, etc.?
If they respond something like a $20 gift certificate apiece ......... tell them "we always give at least $100 apiece".
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To offer a slightly different perspective, I think it's worth using such questions or conversations, which may be rude or tactless, for a bit of self reflection. I was subjected to a similar exchange in the past few years and had a similar reaction at the time--who was this person to critique my generosity, how dare they, etc. But when cooler heads prevailed, I had to admit that they had a point--I actually was overly stingy and had let my drive for savings, frugality and the like blind me to that fact. I've since increased my giving substantially (though it still has further to go!) and, the funny thing is, haven't really noticed any decrease in savings rate.
My point isn't that you should give more--as with most things, it's really an individual and very personal decision--but rather that it's easy to react and take offense at the foolish/ignorant/rude statements of others. In my eyes, trying to critically examine such statements to improve yourself is really the best come back you make to such onslaughts--they use it as an opportunity to display their negative qualities, you use it as an opportunity to further improve your positive ones.
Just my two cents.
I totally agree.
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You neighbors were out of line to bring this up of course, but most people I know give something to daycare providers and teachers and regular household service providers (we have a cleaner that comes in 1x/month). I know that they appreciate the gift (we do cash or gift card) and the gesture, and don't see it as a "servant" bonus. I have never given Christmas gifts to refuse collectors or a mail person because I don't know them and they change regularly. I draw the line there, but if I had someone performing a regular/personal service (dog walker, weekend babysitter, massage therapist, favorite waitress, hair stylist), I would overpay/tip them around the holiday as a thank you.
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Almost all of you missed the real issue! Clearly, the correct solution is for the OP to move to a less pretentious neighborhood. Not only will he have less pompous neighbors who won't make him feel like an asshole, he won't be wasting his money on HOA fees to maintain the golf course etc.
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You are giving too many f*cks...give less f*cks.
Advice applies to most of life.
I love this advice. It works especially well when dealing with nosy passive aggressive a-h@les who feed on upsetting others because they are unhappy.
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I have a thick skin. I remember my parents giving to everyone and their mother when I was a kid. (The mail person, teachers, milk man, etc.)
We generally give cash to our cleaning lady (double face punch) and a gift card to my daycare provider.
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what they're getting for the babysitter, the mail carrier, the golf staff, teachers, daycare workers etc
We have given gifts to teachers before but that's mainly because NC teacher salaries are pretty much the worst in the country after accounting for cost of living. Now we homeschool so that doesn't apply. Other than mail carrier I don't do business with anyone else like this and I'm not sure the logic behind giving the mail carrier a gift. Should that include USPS, UPS, and Fedex? I think USPS is what most people would choose but really they mostly bring us junk mail. Aren't the folks on this list just doing their job? Don't want to sound heartless but I think there are more deserving recipients of charity.
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People share things like this for all sorts of reasons. If you feel good about what you spend on/give to during the holidays, don't worry about it! I promise you, I grew up in a town filled with people like this and its insanity! I remember teachers getting $100 gift cards to Neimans and things like that. It's just conspicuous consumption at its worst.
If you want to thank people for what they do for you, why not write a note or a card? Bake some cookies or a banana bread. If someone handed me a homemade banana bread I'd be thrilled and probably eat the whole thing with some cream cheese, cause that's super tasty.
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People can go overboard with this stuff. That said we do give gifts to the teachers. Depends on our budget but it is either home baked items or a $15-20 gift certificate. To tell the truth I wish I could do more. I also live in NC and they spend a lot of time and often their own resources to teach the kids. We have been leaning more towards gift certificates if we can swing it; we learned one of the teachers is diabetic and it made me realize food gifts may or may not be appreciated by all depending on dietary restrictions.
For the postal carrier I stick a box a chocolates in the mailbox with a thank you note. They can't accept monetary gifts. Nothing for the trash collectors. Don't have regular babysitters, hair stylists.
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All this discussion about gift giving, and the feelings and uncertainty that go along with that are why I prefer Thanksgiving. All the time off, no pressure to buy s**t for other people.
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I'd have fun with it in this case, because clearly these people are ridiculous and have a sunshine and lollipops view of the world.
I'd tell them that I am getting my mail carrier a Lexus RX300 fully loaded, my maid a vacation home in Italy, and the UPS guy a Mustang, etc.
Once you raise it to that level of ridiculous, they will slowly realize that getting any of these people a gift is ridiculous. Well, I suspect most people would, these people, they may be beyond help.
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There have been a lot of nasty type responses from the members here! So your neighbor likes to brag, good for them, woopty do. No need to be a snarky asshat back to them.
Don't feel obligated to give gifts, do so as you please. If you do give a gift, I'm sure those people would be very appreciative.
I gave a monetary gift to my trash collectors for having waaaaay more trash than normal people have. (Remodel, and entirely in the rules!) I also helped load the truck with them too. Now they wave and check to make sure I got all my trash out on a regular basis. Gifts can go a long way.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'd have fun with it in this case, because clearly these people are ridiculous and have a sunshine and lollipops view of the world.
I'd tell them that I am getting my mail carrier a Lexus RX300 fully loaded, my maid a vacation home in Italy, and the UPS guy a Mustang, etc.
Once you raise it to that level of ridiculous, they will slowly realize that getting any of these people a gift is ridiculous. Well, I suspect most people would, these people, they may be beyond help.
It's "ridiculous" to give underpaid teachers and daycare workers a holiday gift? That's a first for me, even on this board.
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(seriously, this is nothing against OP)
...but i'm always kind of amazed at these types of threads. Do people really let these types of things get to them? If I had been in that convo with said neighbor i can honestly say it wouldn't have even crossed my mind what their intentions were or what they were trying to imply. Not because I'm oblivious, but because i mean seriously, who fkn cares what somebody thinks of your gift giving philosophy? Do whatever you want.
Not trying to pick on OP, but i see a lot of threads that I'm just amazed are actual issues to somebody. People need to give less f*cks about completely meaningless stuff.
/diary
http://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck
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i give around 10% every 2 weeks and i routinely give to disabled vets and starving children in africa, so there isn't anyone that can legitimately be disapproving of me by comparison, especially if the person they are giving to lives in the usa; the richest country on earth.
off soapbox,
you should give what you think is right and can live with personnaly. if its 10 percent, 5 percent or zero and you are fine with it; that's all that matters. there will always be others asking or implying you should give for this person or that cause; i have yet to have them ask me what i'm currently doing for others before asking from charity from me.
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Sooo...does anyone give money to their mail carrier, trash collector, others this time of year?
I never have in the past because I find it bizarre that a complete stranger would expect a gift from me for doing their job. But, I do wonder if it makes me an asshole if everyone else is doing it.
This is probably a culture thing, but I get "Christmas bonus for the servants" vibes from those kinds of gifts.
It's like tipping in a restaurant. If everyone does it except you it stands out. I actually receive gifts from some of the people who do work for me. Probably because they want to keep me as their customer. Giving gifts is not a purely altruistic thing. Giving to people who do work for you is a good way to buy some loyalty and motivation.
Tipping is also a cultural thing. It is only the last years that have become common here, and it is only done in restaurants. Tipping taxi drivers, hairdressers, etc, would be seen as weird.
Gift giving to smooth things out, that is logical. But there is often a blurred line between that and corruption. As a teacher, and in my current job, I could not accept gifts worth more than $100.
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(seriously, this is nothing against OP)
...but i'm always kind of amazed at these types of threads. Do people really let these types of things get to them? If I had been in that convo with said neighbor i can honestly say it wouldn't have even crossed my mind what their intentions were or what they were trying to imply. Not because I'm oblivious, but because i mean seriously, who fkn cares what somebody thinks of your gift giving philosophy? Do whatever you want.
Not trying to pick on OP, but i see a lot of threads that I'm just amazed are actual issues to somebody. People need to give less f*cks about completely meaningless stuff.
/diary
http://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck
LOL I kind of agree. I would've thought about it - like someone else said, do I need to reassess what I am doing? - and moved on. Does the mail carrier need a Christmas gift? Probably not. If I had someone providing a regular service to me that I really appreciated (e.g. babysitter) I would probably get them something small.
I got the office assistants at my job a $5 coffee gift card. It's not necessary, but it's a nice token considering all they have done for me this year. Cost me $25 total. I also got my boss a bottle of wine from Bevmo's 5c sale (see, mustachian!). But it's not something I bring up in conversation e.g. like your neighbor, it sounds like bragging and faux-shock like you're some sort of uncouth cheapskate.
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I must remember to give a gift to my hairdresser. What do you think a Flowbee would like?
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I year end tip only my "regulars" who I wouldn't want replaced or have to replace. I don't tip the USPS guy because he is not supposed to take tips (or so I have been told).
I did tip my lawn service guy who is as regular as a swiss watch because he lost his helper and yet never missed a schedule. I consider him a kind man and a friend. Same with my cleaning person... I admire her leaving her family behind and becoming her own small business in a foreign country at the age of 27.
Where I have had a difference of opinion with a neighbor is with my waste management guys- I tip them both at the holidays because I see them often, they wave everytime and most importantly don't refuse to take stuff away if I have field dressed a deer in my garage or cooked up a big batch of meth over the weekend :-) Neighbor has been reprimanded a couple of times but my guys sometimes put my bins away for me on windy days... service is worth it to me.
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I must remember to give a gift to my hairdresser. What do you think a Flowbee would like?
This made me smile. I have a Wahl, personally. I call him Wally. Funny that he's never complained about not receiving a gift...
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This is why I will never live in a well to do neighborhood, no matter how much money I have. I like solid B neighborhoods, but the A neighborhoods bug me.
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(seriously, this is nothing against OP)
...but i'm always kind of amazed at these types of threads. Do people really let these types of things get to them? If I had been in that convo with said neighbor i can honestly say it wouldn't have even crossed my mind what their intentions were or what they were trying to imply. Not because I'm oblivious, but because i mean seriously, who fkn cares what somebody thinks of your gift giving philosophy? Do whatever you want.
Not trying to pick on OP, but i see a lot of threads that I'm just amazed are actual issues to somebody. People need to give less f*cks about completely meaningless stuff.
/diary
http://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck
similarly amazed (reading down the thread titles)...we seem be an easily annoyed and/or highly insecure bunch
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What to give a 60+ year old male school bus driver? I'm stumped on that one. Somehow a $15 Target or Starbucks gift card doesn't seem like something he would like, although I see him drinking coffee. Maybe some ground coffee and chocolate? This is someone I see twice a day, and he has been driving our kids for 3 years now. I think it's nice to recognize people who care for your children. It's not obligatory, but it's nice.
We bake our kids bus driver a batch of chocolate chip cookies every December. I had the kids ask him what his favorite flavour is.
FTR he's the only non-family member we gift to. His elevated status is entirely because my kids get motion sickness.
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I'd have fun with it in this case, because clearly these people are ridiculous and have a sunshine and lollipops view of the world.
I'd tell them that I am getting my mail carrier a Lexus RX300 fully loaded, my maid a vacation home in Italy, and the UPS guy a Mustang, etc.
Once you raise it to that level of ridiculous, they will slowly realize that getting any of these people a gift is ridiculous. Well, I suspect most people would, these people, they may be beyond help.
This made my day!
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First....you're not an a$$hole.
Second, asking about financial issues is bad manners for your neighbor.
I would suggest that it's none of their business what and if you decide to "give".
Some suggested responses:
- "Oh, why do you ask?"
- "Oh, why would you need to know that?"
- "I consider that a private matter and prefer not to discuss it".
what about
- "Oh, go f@ck yourself'
Yes!
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You mean you didn't buy anything for your dog groomers' limo drivers' sister? The nerve of you!
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As a teacher, I can't stand when people feel guilted into getting me a Christmas present. Seriously. I thought I might lose my shit when I saw that Jamberry fucking nonsense being marketed as a teacher gift. Not all teachers are as anti-consumer as I am, but people seem to think that the gifts are some big perk that we expect. We don't. At least not where I teach.
Please. I would prefer for you to reach FI rather than feel obligated.
And I agree with whoever said you should move out of that neighbourhood. :)
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I live in a developing country and it is customary to give out tips to condo staff and any service providers that you have used during the year.
I just see it as a small token of appreciation for people that don't earn very much. I won't be going crazy, its really just a few dollars here or there. I find that I tend to get well treated the following year by those who I have acknowledged in this way so it becomes a virtuous cycle. Want that coveted last minute hair appointment before Christmas? Sure! Need that fixed at 10pm on a Sunday night? Yep!
But I see it as a personal gesture and won't be telling others about it to make myself sound like a better human being. Do it if you want to do it, not because someone is guilting you into it.
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I make kick-ass toffee.This time of year, I make up pretty gift bags, add thank you notes and share them in lieu of cash tips. Takes more effort than digging into my pocket (which any "asshole" can do), and I get lots of positive feedback. Makes me happy. Passing out cash just doesn't have the same effect. So I guess my answer is "Do what makes you happy." BTW - I have no earthly idea what my neighbors do. I live in an affluent community in a high COLA and damn, it's never come up in conversation.
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Sooo...does anyone give money to their mail carrier, trash collector, others this time of year?
I never have in the past because I find it bizarre that a complete stranger would expect a gift from me for doing their job. But, I do wonder if it makes me an asshole if everyone else is doing it.
This is probably a culture thing, but I get "Christmas bonus for the servants" vibes from those kinds of gifts.
It's like tipping in a restaurant. If everyone does it except you it stands out. I actually receive gifts from some of the people who do work for me. Probably because they want to keep me as their customer. Giving gifts is not a purely altruistic thing. Giving to people who do work for you is a good way to buy some loyalty and motivation.
I'm glad you mentioned the relationship-building aspect of gift giving. Some gifts (or cards sent) are to express both appreciation and a hope for continued good relations. Even if someone is just doing their job there is likely some latitude in how well/thoroughly/promptly they do it, and if they'll go the extra mile (if needed). You're likely to get better work or a favour if the person knows you and feels appreciated by you. It seems a bit calculated, but I've never had a bad reaction to "thank you, I appreciate your work."
As for the "Christmas bonus for the servants" vibe, I have loved the occasional Christmas gift received for doing my job, and don't feel demeaned by being the person providing the service/labour in that relationship. I'm earning a living and doing honest work. There is not so much kindness and appreciation in the world that I no longer care when some is shown to me. I suspect it's the same for many people we're discussing regarding Christmas gifts.
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So, my cousin told me this story. She used to live in NYC, and if you have a doorman in the lobby you're expected to tip several hundred dollars around Christmas! Then they moved to SF and apparently there's no such custom there, but they didn't realize it until the apartment manager was incredibly grateful for the gift. Later on, when a better apartment opened up, they were the first to know, and they even got a really nice leather couch for free when the apartment manager changed up his furniture!
I see giving a small gift to someone who provides you a good service as a nice gesture of appreciation. If you're lucky it may come back to you ;)
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It was poor form to bring it up, but FWIW we do give gift cards to teachers and cash to daycare workers. They work hard and I want to give to them. But considering we only get one paper a week, we don't give anything to newspaper carrier. If I had a friendly relationship with our postal worker, I would give him something.
What to give a 60+ year old male school bus driver? I'm stumped on that one. Somehow a $15 Target or Starbucks gift card doesn't seem like something he would like, although I see him drinking coffee. Maybe some ground coffee and chocolate? This is someone I see twice a day, and he has been driving our kids for 3 years now. I think it's nice to recognize people who care for your children. It's not obligatory, but it's nice.
Dunkin Donuts gift card?
Honestly, I'm a teacher at a private school, and I am not paid very much, which is actually just fine because this is not a job that I'm doing for the money. But I adore it when parents give me gift cards for the bookstore, because we can never, ever have too many books in my classroom and I pretty generally buy them with my own money.
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Another teacher here. I don't want personal gifts from my students or their parents.
The best gift is entirely frugal/free: an email from you to a favorite teacher's school board and principal (copied or blind copied to the teacher) outlining how much you appreciate them. NOT a note directly to the teacher, but to their bosses. It has more lasting impact than a gift card.
Next up: a direct donation of needed supplies to the classroom. Not something that looks like a personal gift to them, but funding something on their donor's choose site, or if they don't have one, let them know you have roughly xx amount you want to donate, and what's the best way to spend it? You could get answers from tissues to hand sanitizer to wacom tablets, depending on the budget you give them.
And other things that are timely and personal and free, but not "It's Christmas so I felt obligated to get you something." One senior gave me an apple randomly and said he was graduating that year and he's always wanted to give an apple to a teacher, but never done it. I was pretty psyched too, because an extra snack before the 10 mile ride home is exciting. Another day a pumpkin appeared outside my classroom door, which was hilarious. They'd seen me hauling in my pumpkins from post halloween trash scouting, on my bike rides into school, they knew I was cooking them into lunch smoothies and eating the roasted seeds. So instead of throwing out their halloween pumpkin, they brought it in for me.
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Might be a good time to share Matthew 6:2 with your neighbors.
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Sooo...does anyone give money to their mail carrier, trash collector, others this time of year?
I never have in the past because I find it bizarre that a complete stranger would expect a gift from me for doing their job. But, I do wonder if it makes me an asshole if everyone else is doing it.
I will give money to our building super and the porter. The super in particular has saved me a fortune and been a huge help, and we live directly upstairs and the baby is noisy and he's reasonably tolerant of this.
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I make kick-ass toffee.This time of year, I make up pretty gift bags, add thank you notes and share them in lieu of cash tips. Takes more effort than digging into my pocket (which any "asshole" can do), and I get lots of positive feedback. Makes me happy. Passing out cash just doesn't have the same effect. So I guess my answer is "Do what makes you happy." BTW - I have no earthly idea what my neighbors do. I live in an affluent community in a high COLA and damn, it's never come up in conversation.
Care to share a recipe?
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This thread has made me doubly pleased that I don't have any one to be guilted into giving too. No hairdresser no cleaner no waste guy (or gal) no nothing. Ahh the joys of being a poor student in the city.
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Sooo...does anyone give money to their mail carrier, trash collector, others this time of year?
I never have in the past because I find it bizarre that a complete stranger would expect a gift from me for doing their job. But, I do wonder if it makes me an asshole if everyone else is doing it.
I will give money to our building super and the porter. The super in particular has saved me a fortune and been a huge help, and we live directly upstairs and the baby is noisy and he's reasonably tolerant of this.
DW is a letter carrier and I carried mail for five years as well before going into IT. In Richmond perhaps 5% of middle-class households give the letter carrier something at Christmas. If you have a route of 800 stops, that equates to about 40 people. Someone mentioned that letter carriers cannot accept cash, and that is technically true, but it has been overlooked for decades. The Mrs. usually comes home each year with about $100-$200 in cash, lots of baked goods, small gifts. They are all appreciated. Relationship building is a smart thing to do. I used to get lunch from a food cart down town. I always tipped them in December. I was probably one of very few people who did so. They always treated me very well, probably better than most of their customers. Recognizing their efforts at the end of the year is just a decent thing to do. Granted, most people don't do it, I would argue that if you give freely it always comes back to you one way or another.
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Sooo...does anyone give money to their mail carrier, trash collector, others this time of year?
I never have in the past because I find it bizarre that a complete stranger would expect a gift from me for doing their job. But, I do wonder if it makes me an asshole if everyone else is doing it.
I will give money to our building super and the porter. The super in particular has saved me a fortune and been a huge help, and we live directly upstairs and the baby is noisy and he's reasonably tolerant of this.
DW is a letter carrier and I carried mail for five years as well before going into IT. In Richmond perhaps 5% of middle-class households give the letter carrier something at Christmas. If you have a route of 800 stops, that equates to about 40 people. Someone mentioned that letter carriers cannot accept cash, and that is technically true, but it has been overlooked for decades. The Mrs. usually comes home each year with about $100-$200 in cash, lots of baked goods, small gifts. They are all appreciated. Relationship building is a smart thing to do. I used to get lunch from a food cart down town. I always tipped them in December. I was probably one of very few people who did so. They always treated me very well, probably better than most of their customers. Recognizing their efforts at the end of the year is just a decent thing to do. Granted, most people don't do it, I would argue that if you give freely it always comes back to you one way or another.
Ha, that reminds me. I need to give stuff to the UPS guy in particular. I order everything on the internet and he's been really good to me.
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I have a team of four people that works for me. I do small things for them throughout the year. Not because I have to, but because I genuinely want to. They get this and they truly appreciate it. The rather small amount of money I pay for this? I get it back in so many ways. I will be purchasing holiday gifts for them this year. It is my first year at the firm and I don't know if this is a custom or not, suffice to say I am setting my own standard. Not because I am expected to, not because I expect to benefit from it, but because I genuinely want to.
Generosity can be expressed in many different ways and forms. Generosity is a virtue that all people appreciate, truly generous people are often well-liked, likability is one of those traits that bears much fruit, not all of it obvious. To the OP I say embrace generosity in the spirit that suits you best.
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Not because I am expected to, not because I expect to benefit from it, but because I genuinely want to.
Exactly. There are a lot of things that I have to do in life out of obligation and even some gifts that I have to give out of obligation, mostly to family members. But I give to the teachers and daycare workers because I want to. Those are the main gifts at Christmas that I am happy to give. I don't think it's expected, especially in the case of the teachers. I will stop giving teacher gifts once my kids start rotating rooms in sixth grade, though.
Edited to add that I gave more this year -- $25 gift cards to Target to each teacher -- but that was because one is having a baby this month and the other is getting married on New Year's. I thought those were life events that deserved recognition. Plus the teacher getting married has been a teacher to our children for three years now (our school district loops) and the other will be our son's teacher for two years.
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What to give a 60+ year old male school bus driver? I'm stumped on that one.
I'll bet your old bus driver buys groceries. So he would probably be thrilled with a gift card to any popular local grocery chain.
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We live in a 'well to do' neighborhood- you know, golf course etc. Most of our neighbors are very nice but non-mustachian. Yesterday, we were chatting about the holidays and they asked me about who I was "giving" to this year. I said family and the two charities that we support (that's all). They went on and on about what they're getting for the babysitter, the mail carrier, the golf staff, teachers, daycare workers etc and implying that I need to be more generous. I mentally added that up and there's no way we're doing that but it did make me feel like kind of an asshole. Has anyone else had this experience?
haven't read the thread as I'm burning soup, but please:
1. ignorant of them to ask
2. none of their business
3. as if you care????
4. not a shrink but sounds like compensating for small cigar size: if you have to brag about what you're giving people, you have NO clue on what giving is all about.
5. next time you see them, mention they could live next to me.
I plan on giving honey from my bees this year, and secondhand hay from the horse/burros/ducks/chickens....that's hay that's been through the animal one time already. Perfect for gardens. Also known as 'shit'.
Ask them if they want some shit: I have extra for idiots like them.
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We live in a 'well to do' neighborhood- you know, golf course etc. Most of our neighbors are very nice but non-mustachian. Yesterday, we were chatting about the holidays and they asked me about who I was "giving" to this year. I said family and the two charities that we support (that's all). They went on and on about what they're getting for the babysitter, the mail carrier, the golf staff, teachers, daycare workers etc and implying that I need to be more generous. I mentally added that up and there's no way we're doing that but it did make me feel like kind of an asshole. Has anyone else had this experience?
haven't read the thread as I'm burning soup, but please:
1. ignorant of them to ask
2. none of their business
3. as if you care????
4. not a shrink but sounds like compensating for small cigar size: if you have to brag about what you're giving people, you have NO clue on what giving is all about.
5. next time you see them, mention they could live next to me.
I plan on giving honey from my bees this year, and secondhand hay from the horse/burros/ducks/chickens....that's hay that's been through the animal one time already. Perfect for gardens. Also known as 'shit'.
Ask them if they want some shit: I have extra for idiots like them.
1) I LOLed at this.
2) Immediate thought: I bet there are hipsters somewhere paying big bucks for natural, microfarm-produced soil-enricher! (Or whatever fancy marketing name appeals to them. Any way to fit "artisanal" in there?)
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I make kick-ass toffee.This time of year, I make up pretty gift bags, add thank you notes and share them in lieu of cash tips. Takes more effort than digging into my pocket (which any "asshole" can do), and I get lots of positive feedback. Makes me happy. Passing out cash just doesn't have the same effect. So I guess my answer is "Do what makes you happy." BTW - I have no earthly idea what my neighbors do. I live in an affluent community in a high COLA and damn, it's never come up in conversation.
Care to share a recipe?
For you, of course! Just give me a day or so to get my act together and find it. Today was Library Holiday Book Sale Day (we made almost $1900 in seven hours, woot!) and I am too exhausted to think about toffee yet, but I will defrost some butter, which will get me motivated.
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We live in a 'well to do' neighborhood- you know, golf course etc. Most of our neighbors are very nice but non-mustachian. Yesterday, we were chatting about the holidays and they asked me about who I was "giving" to this year. I said family and the two charities that we support (that's all). They went on and on about what they're getting for the babysitter, the mail carrier, the golf staff, teachers, daycare workers etc and implying that I need to be more generous. I mentally added that up and there's no way we're doing that but it did make me feel like kind of an asshole. Has anyone else had this experience?
haven't read the thread as I'm burning soup, but please:
1. ignorant of them to ask
2. none of their business
3. as if you care????
4. not a shrink but sounds like compensating for small cigar size: if you have to brag about what you're giving people, you have NO clue on what giving is all about.
5. next time you see them, mention they could live next to me.
I plan on giving honey from my bees this year, and secondhand hay from the horse/burros/ducks/chickens....that's hay that's been through the animal one time already. Perfect for gardens. Also known as 'shit'.
Ask them if they want some shit: I have extra for idiots like them.
1) I LOLed at this.
2) Immediate thought: I bet there are hipsters somewhere paying big bucks for natural, microfarm-produced soil-enricher! (Or whatever fancy marketing name appeals to them. Any way to fit "artisanal" in there?)
Don't laugh: there's an organic greenhouse/hippie place near town that sells artisanal organic ya ya crap for $500 a cubic yard! I laughed when they told me. Local soil tends to be short on whatever the mineral is in sheetrock: they have contractors dump old sheetrock and grind it and add some organic chicken poop....yikes.
On topic, I do tip the trash guy. Yes, it would be cheaper to haul my stuff to the dump but I already have a rodent problem due to the chickens. I also have 40mph hour winds some days....I'd be hiking a mile in the sagebrush to catch my trashcan, but this guy gets out of his truck and wedges it into the gate: worth it and he's super nice.
I think a gift should be something you want to do and feel like doing: not some arbitrary mandatory obligation....that's what IRS is for.
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I make kick-ass toffee.This time of year, I make up pretty gift bags, add thank you notes and share them in lieu of cash tips. Takes more effort than digging into my pocket (which any "asshole" can do), and I get lots of positive feedback. Makes me happy. Passing out cash just doesn't have the same effect. So I guess my answer is "Do what makes you happy." BTW - I have no earthly idea what my neighbors do. I live in an affluent community in a high COLA and damn, it's never come up in conversation.
Care to share a recipe?
For you, of course! Just give me a day or so to get my act together and find it. Today was Library Holiday Book Sale Day (we made almost $1900 in seven hours, woot!) and I am too exhausted to think about toffee yet, but I will defrost some butter, which will get me motivated.
Thank you!
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To each their own.
I don't ever see myself giving gifts to anyone outside of immediate family/friends. The idea of giving gifts to teachers, bus drivers, mailmen, etc is interesting, in the vein that the people doing so aren't also giving gifts to their doctors, tax preparers, attorneys, etc that make just as big of an impact on their lives. Just comes off as the "Christmas bonus for the servants" vibe that has been mentioned in here.
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To each their own.
I don't ever see myself giving gifts to anyone outside of immediate family/friends. The idea of giving gifts to teachers, bus drivers, mailmen, etc is interesting, in the vein that the people doing so aren't also giving gifts to their doctors, tax preparers, attorneys, etc that make just as big of an impact on their lives. Just comes off as the "Christmas bonus for the servants" vibe that has been mentioned in here.
For me, it has to do with the fact that the bus driver and teachers are important adults or touchstones in my childrens' lives. It has nothing to do with them being "servants". The bus driver is responsible for getting my child to and from school safely five days a week, and I very much appreciate that he takes this job seriously and does a good job. And clearly the teachers are our closest partners in our childrens' education.
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To each their own.
I don't ever see myself giving gifts to anyone outside of immediate family/friends. The idea of giving gifts to teachers, bus drivers, mailmen, etc is interesting, in the vein that the people doing so aren't also giving gifts to their doctors, tax preparers, attorneys, etc that make just as big of an impact on their lives. Just comes off as the "Christmas bonus for the servants" vibe that has been mentioned in here.
What's wrong with having servants, gifting to them, or for that matter, being a servant? When I worked, I was an EA, which is basically a servant. It was a job whose exclusive function was to support another person. It paid my bills and supported my family and was in no way degrading.
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As an introvert, I never talk to my neighbors so I wouldn't have this conversation in the first place. But for my personal opinion, I feel like everyone can do, or not do, what they want with their money. If the neighbors feel the need to give gifts to the mail carrier and their kids' teachers, fine. But that doesn't mean you don't have to do the same if you don't want to.
I personally always think it awkward when I receive gifts from people I don't know, nor have any sort of "family obligation" feelings toward me. If I was the mail carrier and got gifts from people, I would accept it because it would be rude not to, but I certainly wouldn't expect it.
But I also think it's weird to give people tips. People should receive a proper amount of pay from their employer in the first place for doing their job.
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We have always given gifts to service people & anyone that affects my kids as others have mentioned. We have tipped the trash guy when we had tons of garbage. I never tip the mailmen-they make good $. However, I would never dream of asking my neighbor who they give gifts too. Really rude in my opinion.
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To each their own.
I don't ever see myself giving gifts to anyone outside of immediate family/friends. The idea of giving gifts to teachers, bus drivers, mailmen, etc is interesting, in the vein that the people doing so aren't also giving gifts to their doctors, tax preparers, attorneys, etc that make just as big of an impact on their lives. Just comes off as the "Christmas bonus for the servants" vibe that has been mentioned in here.
What's wrong with having servants, gifting to them, or for that matter, being a servant? When I worked, I was an EA, which is basically a servant. It was a job whose exclusive function was to support another person. It paid my bills and supported my family and was in no way degrading.
Nothing is wrong with any job, you may have just misunderstood my post.
My point was that these people/professions people are gifting to ITT are no more essential to their family (aside from maybe teachers) than that of other professions like doctors, lawyers, accountants, financial advisors, etc. My girlfriend is a teacher, so I get the disparity between what they are paid and the effort they put in, as well as the impact they have on young minds. With that said, she no more expects gifts from parents than I do as an accountant from clients.
Nobody should feel, as the OP put it, like an asshole, for not giving gifts to anyone that you personally don't feel the need to.
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I make kick-ass toffee.
Care to share a recipe?
OMG, Our oven broke last night! It took over an hour to pre-heat for pizza! And our holiday cookie party/neighborhood food drive is only a week away. Gah! Until DH fixes it, It's toffee and no-bake cookies for me. Any recipe ideas greatly appreciated. Oh yeah, the printer crapped out, in apparent in solidarity with the oven. WTF??
As for the enclosed toffee recipe: Since almonds are pricey, it is not cheap, but shopping at Costco for butter and chocolate chips helps. Toasting/chopping nuts is a pain in the ASS, and a food processor doesn't give as good a result as hand chopping, so I pay a little more for the toasted, chopped nuts at Winco (IIRC, about 8.50/lb, but: No Chopping!) It is fairly foolproof, if the directions are followed exactly, and it is 100% delicious. This is a double batch, so the yield is good. I've made scores of batches and only lost one, which I crumbled up and saved for ice cream topping, so not a total loss. This was passed on to me by a friend, so I do not know the source of the recipe, but God bless him or her, whoever they are.
Chocolate-Almond Buttercrunch Toffee
4-6 cups toasted almonds, coarsely chopped
4 tablespoons water
1 cup (2 sticks) salted or unsalted butter
2 cups granulated sugar
1/2 cup packed light or dark brown sugar
1/2 teaspoon baking soda
2 teaspoons vanilla extract
2 cups chocolate chips
1. Sprinkle half the nuts into a jelly roll pan*. Nuts should cover the entire surface of the pan. If not, chop more!
2. In a medium size heavy-duty saucepan fitted with a candy thermometer, melt the butter; add water, then both sugars. Stir to mix sugars and butter. Cook, stirring as little as possible (really), until the thermometer reads 300 F degrees. (There will be a point, at about 280 degrees, when it may smell like it’s burning, but it’ll be okay. If you pull the mixture from the heat before 300, it’ll still taste okay, but it won’t hold its crunch.) Have the vanilla and baking soda pre-measured and ready to go.
3. Once the thermometer hits 300 F degrees, immediately remove from heat and stir in the vanilla and baking soda. Stir rapidly to distribute baking soda evenly. (Yes, it is HOT, so be careful!)
4. Quickly pour the mixture over the nuts on the baking sheet. Try to pour the mixture so it forms a relatively even layer. (Gently but quickly spread to the edges of the pan with a spatula, but don't overwork it.)
5. Strew the chocolate chips over the top and let stand 2 minutes, then spread in an even layer, as if frosting a cake. (It helps to cover pan with foil or an inverted cookie sheet to soften the chocolate.) If desired, dust with a small amount of sea salt if using unsalted butter.
6. Sprinkle the remaining nuts over the chocolate and gently press them in with your hands.
7. Cool completely and break into bite-size pieces to serve. If there’s any left, store in an airtight container.
*Jelly roll pan is 12”x17”x1”. If you don’t have one, use the largest cookie sheet you have.
P.S. If this recipe should be posted somewhere else, feel free to move it.
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We live in a 'well to do' neighborhood- you know, golf course etc. Most of our neighbors are very nice but non-mustachian. Yesterday, we were chatting about the holidays and they asked me about who I was "giving" to this year. I said family and the two charities that we support (that's all). They went on and on about what they're getting for the babysitter, the mail carrier, the golf staff, teachers, daycare workers etc and implying that I need to be more generous. I mentally added that up and there's no way we're doing that but it did make me feel like kind of an asshole. Has anyone else had this experience?
My coworker tried to make me feel bad last Christmas. She asked for whom I was getting gifts for. I said my parents, my brother, and 5 coworkers. She was all like, " but what about your friends?" My friends and I do not exchange gifts. She buys for her daughter and her family, nieces, nephews,several girlfriends, guy friends and etc. I said that is fine for you but I only have one income and besides my family always only take care of our own.
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I wonder if this is why my mail carrier threw my package in a puddle the other day. Shoulda jammed some toffee in the mailbox for him.
I don't even understand how I would deliver a gift to my trash collector. They don't actually get out of the truck most of the time - it has an auto-loader. I guess I could hide behind a tree and throw chocolate at them while they drive by.
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I wonder if this is why my mail carrier threw my package in a puddle the other day. Shoulda jammed some toffee in the mailbox for him.
I don't even understand how I would deliver a gift to my trash collector. They don't actually get out of the truck most of the time - it has an auto-loader. I guess I could hide behind a tree and throw chocolate at them while they drive by.
I don't even hide behind a tree, I just go out and hand it to them. It's easy because - wait for it - I'm retired ;-)
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On a practical level how do you tip the trash collector? Do you put a big sign on the side of the bin "Xmass gift for trash collector - gift card within" Or are you normally home when they come by? I have only seen my trash collector once or twice, I am most always gone by the time they come by Monday morning.
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Tape envelope to the trash can or trash bag.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Tape envelope to the trash can or trash bag.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
This would be noticed or do your guys manually handle each bin? Round here the guy stays in the truck and a big arm lifts the bin up to the top of the truck and dumps it out.
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Aha. Our guys do it by hand.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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We live in a 'well to do' neighborhood- you know, golf course etc. Most of our neighbors are very nice but non-mustachian. Yesterday, we were chatting about the holidays and they asked me about who I was "giving" to this year. I said family and the two charities that we support (that's all). They went on and on about what they're getting for the babysitter, the mail carrier, the golf staff, teachers, daycare workers etc and implying that I need to be more generous. I mentally added that up and there's no way we're doing that but it did make me feel like kind of an asshole. Has anyone else had this experience?
I would think you should give gifts to most of those people. Golf staff? lol. I assume that one's not a problem. But teachers, daycare workers, babysitters should probably get something as a token of your appreciation. Doesn't have to be expensive though. And what the gift is is none of the neighbor's business.
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We live in a 'well to do' neighborhood- you know, golf course etc. Most of our neighbors are very nice but non-mustachian. Yesterday, we were chatting about the holidays and they asked me about who I was "giving" to this year. I said family and the two charities that we support (that's all). They went on and on about what they're getting for the babysitter, the mail carrier, the golf staff, teachers, daycare workers etc and implying that I need to be more generous. I mentally added that up and there's no way we're doing that but it did make me feel like kind of an asshole. Has anyone else had this experience?
I would think you should give gifts to most of those people. Golf staff? lol. I assume that one's not a problem. But teachers, daycare workers, babysitters should probably get something as a token of your appreciation. Doesn't have to be expensive though. And what the gift is is none of the neighbor's business.
Yes, I make the teachers an edible gift or if they're female, I make them some nice jewelry. Both of which cost very little. It's a token of appreciation for a difficult job but I can't go digging in my purse.
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I hope my wife gives the lawn boy a really big Christmas tip.
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saw this and it made me think of this thread (which i cant believe is still a thing)
https://www.etsy.com/listing/254228220/teacher-wine-labels-end-of-term-teacher?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_d-paper_goods_and_party_supplies-paper-stickers_labels_and_tags&utm_custom1=687af262-9d94-8748-1bcf-00002448c185&gclid=CPmxyrGLzckCFQkxaQodKV0NUg
holy longlink batman!
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So I dressed up in my Grinch costume and waited outside in some bushes at 6am. I had a big sack of peanut brittle - you know the kind with the sharp edges that break your teeth? - and threw handfuls at my garbage men. Also a few joggers, because they looked like they needed some Xmas spirit.
But no one seemed grateful at all! I think the garbage men swore at me!
Plus, one of the joggers called the police.
I don't understand why these kinds of normal social interactions always go so poorly for me. Who doesn't like peanut brittle?
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What to give a 60+ year old male school bus driver? I'm stumped on that one.
Socks?
This is why I will never live in a well to do neighborhood, no matter how much money I have. I like solid B neighborhoods, but the A neighborhoods bug me.
Yes, absolutely. Three cheers for the solid B neighbourhood! That's what we have chosen, too.
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So I dressed up in my Grinch costume and waited outside in some bushes at 6am. I had a big sack of peanut brittle - you know the kind with the sharp edges that break your teeth? - and threw handfuls at my garbage men. Also a few joggers, because they looked like they needed some Xmas spirit.
But no one seemed grateful at all! I think the garbage men swore at me!
Plus, one of the joggers called the police.
I don't understand why these kinds of normal social interactions always go so poorly for me. Who doesn't like peanut brittle?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/6mNMCIZoSm8sE/giphy.gif)
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So I dressed up in my Grinch costume and waited outside in some bushes at 6am. I had a big sack of peanut brittle - you know the kind with the sharp edges that break your teeth? - and threw handfuls at my garbage men. Also a few joggers, because they looked like they needed some Xmas spirit.
But no one seemed grateful at all! I think the garbage men swore at me!
Plus, one of the joggers called the police.
I don't understand why these kinds of normal social interactions always go so poorly for me. Who doesn't like peanut brittle?
Don't aim for the face next time?
As for catching the trash guy in real life....it can be tough. I've flagged down trucks on the road on the way to work, but it's never my guy. One year I gave the card/cash/candy to the guy I'd flagged down, and he said he'd deliver it. Then I thought that might be too tempting driving around all day with chocolate RIGHT THERE ON THE SEAT NEXT TO YOU.
So now I wait until I can catch my guy....he got it two weeks late last year but seemed fine with it. I would be: you're late giving me my free chocolate/money? Darn.
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What are the customary amounts to give to your doorman/staff/secretary for the Chicago market?