Author Topic: Need used vehicle for teenager, what kind do we buy (engine done on current one)  (Read 18047 times)

Beric01

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My parents never bought any of us cars. We were expected to get ourselves where we needed by bicycle (which we did). If we wanted a car, we could buy one - with our own money. Borrowing the family car could be done with advance permission and by paying for gas. Needless to say, none of us opted to buy a car. Just not necessary when a bike can get you where you need to go. Biking to school when I was in college made a lot more open to biking everywhere as I am doing now.

Another thread where you proclaim your awesomeness as a bike rider while totally ignoring reality. Thanks, you were a real contribution to the last one you jumped in on. ( this is where I would insert the "roll eyes" smiley if there was the option) The OP has repeatedly made it clear that biking is NOT a safe option for her child, but as in the past, why let facts get in your way.

Remind me - are we on the Mustachian forums or the Sukka Consumer forums? Last time I checked, biking is one of the core tenants of Mustachianism, and cycling safety is not an issue (and also an expensive illusion).

I think a facepunch may be in order.

mcluvin

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I'd also maybe suggest late 90 to early 2000s VW Turbo Diesels with manual transmission.  The automatics from that era had issues, but the manuals are solid.  If you can trust a teenager not to fill it with gasoline, the engines are just about bullet proof and get 40+ MPG.  Should be too hard to find a New Beetle TDI for ~$2K.  A Golf would be more practical though.

nereo

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My parents never bought any of us cars. We were expected to get ourselves where we needed by bicycle (which we did). If we wanted a car, we could buy one - with our own money. Borrowing the family car could be done with advance permission and by paying for gas. Needless to say, none of us opted to buy a car. Just not necessary when a bike can get you where you need to go. Biking to school when I was in college made a lot more open to biking everywhere as I am doing now.
I don't see how this is relevant to the OP's original question, and I think the OP already covered the reason why she is looking for a car.

DollarBill

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Many people talk about problems with certain vehicles and that they would never own a certain brand again. I wonder about how many people who bought a Civic or Corolla and had problems with them? There has to be a few or many...but you just don't hear about them. Why is that? I never hear about what a piece of crap a Jaguar is...is that because they paid way to much for something and embarrassed to admit it or is it because they have the money to repair it? I've also seen a lot of people get rid of a vehicle because of things like a dead battery or had some minor repairs. It's like they lose all hope because a minor repair.

I also wonder about how these people treated their car when they owned them. I've seen people over heat an engine then complain that the head gasket needs replaced...go figure! Luckily I've never been burned with a vehicle purchase. No major repairs like an engine or transmission. I've had a few bad run-ins with a mechanic trying to take advantage of me but it was quickly turned around when I told them that I'm a mechanic myself.

In this day in age most vehicle brands are reliable and I think most will get you to the 200K mileage mark if you take care of it. The one area that I'm skeptical is diesel trucks because of all the new technology...it's a mess! 

Sid Hoffman

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In this day in age most vehicle brands are reliable and I think most will get you to the 200K mileage mark if you take care of it. The one area that I'm skeptical is diesel trucks because of all the new technology...it's a mess!

Engines and transmissions have come a long way, but often times it's everything else that falls apart.  A/C systems, heater cores, radiators, suspension bushings, power window regulators, seatbelt inertia reels, buttons & switches, coilpacks, catalysts and other emissions equipment, sensors, and anything else you can think of.  It's pretty easy for a car with a solid engine & transmission to still have everything else imaginable fall apart if you get an unlucky ticket in the used car lottery.

There's not a whole ton of free resources for used car reliability, but this page of used car rankings at least goes back to 2007, which is better than nothing.  Even if you're looking at a 2003 model or something, you can potentially look at the rankings for the 2007 version of that car, or the nearest model to it.  JD Power & Consumer Reports also regularly publish general studies, but it's harder to get down to the ratings for specific models, as often times even within a brand, specific models may have very different reliability from other models.

greaper007

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Many people talk about problems with certain vehicles and that they would never own a certain brand again. I wonder about how many people who bought a Civic or Corolla and had problems with them? There has to be a few or many...but you just don't hear about them. Why is that? I never hear about what a piece of crap a Jaguar is...is that because they paid way to much for something and embarrassed to admit it or is it because they have the money to repair it? I've also seen a lot of people get rid of a vehicle because of things like a dead battery or had some minor repairs. It's like they lose all hope because a minor repair.

I also wonder about how these people treated their car when they owned them. I've seen people over heat an engine then complain that the head gasket needs replaced...go figure! Luckily I've never been burned with a vehicle purchase. No major repairs like an engine or transmission. I've had a few bad run-ins with a mechanic trying to take advantage of me but it was quickly turned around when I told them that I'm a mechanic myself.

In this day in age most vehicle brands are reliable and I think most will get you to the 200K mileage mark if you take care of it. The one area that I'm skeptical is diesel trucks because of all the new technology...it's a mess!

I agree with most of this, but...   Have you ever talked to someone that owned a Jag pre-Ford?    If you drove through a puddle (let alone a rainstorm) you pretty much had to park the car for the next few hours until the ignition system dried out.

Agreed with new diesels, TDI's are really cool technology wise but I'd hate to do any repairs on the fuel system.

TreeTired

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We bought a car for our (then) teen(s) 10 years ago.   Back then, when buying an old car we had to make sure that it came equipped with air bags and anti-lock brakes.  I am not sure if your shopping universe today includes cars without that equipment but I thought I would mention it. 

We got very lucky with the Saab that we bought.   Lucky in that it lasted for a long time but needed minimal repairs.  The part you should emulate if possible:  We bought it from an  older gentleman in the neighborhood who had maintained it well.   It had over 100k miles and was 8 years old when we bought it.   Paid $2k.

Forcus

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Interesting. A couple of years ago I did the research and bought a pair of Ford Focuses for my two college attending kids. They were both 2007 models, in excellent shape, one was $5600 the other $6500. In the next two years both cars proved to be absolute shit. The more expensive one puked a transmission and it ran $2K for a factory rebuilt unit. The other one need a metric shit ton of work, including a total rebuild of the suspension and AC issues. I got lucky in the end, the cheaper one never got any of the repairs it really needed, and my kid found a less than savvy buyer who bought it for $4K. The one with the new trans was totally, and I mean completely destroyed by a hail storm. The insurance paid $8800 for that one.  In the end the kids drove them for two years and it cost me very little, but I still don't know why articles, including here on MMM, claim that these things are a great used car value?

Your mileage will vary. I recommend Focuses (Foci?) because I am intimately familiar with them (I've had 5 and a half), have been in to the internals (parted them out), etc. and they are IMO one of the simpler vehicles to work on when something goes wrong. Parts are super cheap if you know where to go and how much to pay. For example, a brand new Focus SVT suspension kit - springs, shocks, and front struts with springs fully assembled with strut mounts - is less than $300 online. If you go to the dealer, just one strut will probably be quoted at $150+ not including installation. Timing belts, water pumps, clutches, brake parts, body parts are all in my opinion quite affordable.

BUT if you have it serviced somewhere because you don't work on your own cars, you will be subject the same rapeage as any other car. In addition because they tend to be "first cars" for graduates, kids, etc., they tend to get super beat up by the previous owners. The 00-04 models tend to need front rotors replaced with some regularity and wheel bearings tend to last maybe 50k miles. The complex suspension that makes it handle better than the same era s-box with a torsion type rear axle is also subject to bushing wear which can make handling quirky, and hard to align. I've found too that they are very susceptable to rust around here and so when you do suspension work instead of just loosening and realigning, you are cutting and replacing. And avoid the base model SOHC engines like the plague. They suck pure and simple and there is no reason to buy one with this engine.

paddedhat

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My parents never bought any of us cars. We were expected to get ourselves where we needed by bicycle (which we did). If we wanted a car, we could buy one - with our own money. Borrowing the family car could be done with advance permission and by paying for gas. Needless to say, none of us opted to buy a car. Just not necessary when a bike can get you where you need to go. Biking to school when I was in college made a lot more open to biking everywhere as I am doing now.

Another thread where you proclaim your awesomeness as a bike rider while totally ignoring reality. Thanks, you were a real contribution to the last one you jumped in on. ( this is where I would insert the "roll eyes" smiley if there was the option) The OP has repeatedly made it clear that biking is NOT a safe option for her child, but as in the past, why let facts get in your way.

Remind me - are we on the Mustachian forums or the Sukka Consumer forums? Last time I checked, biking is one of the core tenants of Mustachianism, and cycling safety is not an issue (and also an expensive illusion).

I think a facepunch may be in order.

I agree wholeheartedly, but before you go giving yourself a well deserved slap in your pie hole, please have someone roll video. If your going to smack a bit of that smug hipster bullshit out of yourself, please let us enjoy your pain.

Hey, maybe a different approach, like stroking your ego, will help? I'll go first. You are awesome! Only a true superhero rides a bike as much as you do, we are all lame consumers and bow to your greatness. There, does that puff you up enough?

Now, since you tend to totally ignore reality, we can cover this again. As the OP and I have explained repeatedly, we (as in tens of millions of us) live in rural, flyover country. This is that icky area between NYC and the awesome city that you live in. Now pay attention, because this will be the fourth or fifth time that folks have answered your smug questioning of this. There are vast areas of this country that do not have even a hint of a bike riding culture. Areas where there are endless miles of unlit, shoulderless, high speed secondary roads, where not a single person ever commutes anywhere on a bicycle. Self righteous indignation over sharing the road issues , or bikers having all the rights of any motorist, are not even thoughts in these parts. You want to ride in an environment like that, please feel free, but like many I wouldn't allow, or expect my children to do so. Now here's another thing that you seem to struggle with. Flyover country is not a place where everything you will ever need is located within a small radius from your super trendy apartment. In my case one of my kids had friends, school and a job all 10-25 miles from the house, all in different directions. Not only would a bike be dangerous, but of no use when there was 75 miles of commuting, school and work to be done in a day.
With regard to mustachian behavior, yea it would be great to live in a place where all of the necessities of life are within bike range, and there is a bike culture in place.  There is no doubt that the massive amount of commuting that the wife and I did over our careers, and while raising our children, was a huge drain on our finances, but it is what it is. We both landed high paying jobs fifty miles apart and split the difference when it came to settling down. Since the area we chose nearly quadrupled in population over the two decades we spent there, we were far from pioneers in doing so. Now that we are FIREd, were moving on to a better lifestyle and leaving the clown car game behind. All of that however doesn't change the fact that for most folks in rural America, a cars is a vital tool to advance in life, and a bike isn't an acceptable substitute.

paddedhat

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Your mileage will vary. I recommend Focuses (Foci?) because I am intimately familiar with them (I've had 5 and a half), have been in to the internals (parted them out), etc. and they are IMO one of the simpler vehicles to work on when something goes wrong. Parts are super cheap if you know where to go and how much to pay. For example, a brand new Focus SVT suspension kit - springs, shocks, and front struts with springs fully assembled with strut mounts - is less than $300 online. If you go to the dealer, just one strut will probably be quoted at $150+ not including installation. Timing belts, water pumps, clutches, brake parts, body parts are all in my opinion quite affordable.

BUT if you have it serviced somewhere because you don't work on your own cars, you will be subject the same rapeage as any other car. In addition because they tend to be "first cars" for graduates, kids, etc., they tend to get super beat up by the previous owners. The 00-04 models tend to need front rotors replaced with some regularity and wheel bearings tend to last maybe 50k miles. The complex suspension that makes it handle better than the same era s-box with a torsion type rear axle is also subject to bushing wear which can make handling quirky, and hard to align. I've found too that they are very susceptable to rust around here and so when you do suspension work instead of just loosening and realigning, you are cutting and replacing. And avoid the base model SOHC engines like the plague. They suck pure and simple and there is no reason to buy one with this engine.

I agree with everything you say, except I had no issue with rust, so I can't comment. I guess the biggest issue I have is that I bought two, one owner cars from mature adults, and I was really surprised by the gap between the generally held belief that they are pretty decent cars and the fact that they are fair at best, and no match for anything the Asian builders produce. When the last one was lost to the hail, I stopped at a well regarded used car dealer and spoke to the owner's kid, who had gone to school with my son. I drove a clean cheap Focus that he had, but after I test drove his POS with the racing idle, clanging rear suspension and overall plastic shitbox feel, I told the kid, "sorry but I just can't bring myself to buy another one". He laughed and told me that he wasn't surprised. They don't really like selling them, as they end up wrenching on them far too much before and after the sale, but they hit a price point that's tough to find in anything but Focuses and Colbalts.

SugarMountain

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A couple of points:
1) I had a Solara.  Great car. I spent $0.00 in 72,000 miles aside from tires, oil changes, and if I recall correctly the timing belt.  The one issue it had over the 8 years I had it?  The stupid change holder door wouldn't stay shut.  The only reason I don't still have it is because I got all fancy pantsed and bought an Audi Allroad...which has been *cough* less trouble free.  Mine was the 6 cylinder (with an extremely rare manual transmission).  The 4 will be a lot cheaper for tires, oil changes, and fuel.
2) Instead of saying "what car should I buy", it might be more helpful to list out some examples that are available in your area.  Do a search on craigslist and specify < $2500, < 150,000 miles, and newer than 1990.  Some that I would consider:
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/cto/4778931782.html (salvage title, so be careful)
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/cto/4778909685.html (get that exhaust leak checked before buying)
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/cto/4763183013.html <- This might be a winner.
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/cto/4778825394.html <- DING!  This is the first one I'd look at.  A Camry with 113k miles for $2200?  Perfect.  Mileage isn't great, but at 19/26 it's not as bad as some.

One bad thing about Detroit is it looks like cars that get better mileage either aren't very popular or are generally priced out of my search. (Or maybe little lightweight furrin cars rust out quickly there.)

coffeelover

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I wanted to let everyone know to read the update I posted in the first post.
Thanks for everyone's input, it really did help us in making a decision.

coffeelover

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A couple of points:
1) I had a Solara.  Great car. I spent $0.00 in 72,000 miles aside from tires, oil changes, and if I recall correctly the timing belt.  The one issue it had over the 8 years I had it?  The stupid change holder door wouldn't stay shut.  The only reason I don't still have it is because I got all fancy pantsed and bought an Audi Allroad...which has been *cough* less trouble free.  Mine was the 6 cylinder (with an extremely rare manual transmission).  The 4 will be a lot cheaper for tires, oil changes, and fuel.
2) Instead of saying "what car should I buy", it might be more helpful to list out some examples that are available in your area.  Do a search on craigslist and specify < $2500, < 150,000 miles, and newer than 1990.  Some that I would consider:
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/cto/4778931782.html (salvage title, so be careful)
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/cto/4778909685.html (get that exhaust leak checked before buying)
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/cto/4763183013.html <- This might be a winner.
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/cto/4778825394.html <- DING!  This is the first one I'd look at.  A Camry with 113k miles for $2200?  Perfect.  Mileage isn't great, but at 19/26 it's not as bad as some.

One bad thing about Detroit is it looks like cars that get better mileage either aren't very popular or are generally priced out of my search. (Or maybe little lightweight furrin cars rust out quickly there.)

Man that Camry (the last link) looks awesome! I kind of want it for myself. If I didn't have so many kids and have to haul them around all the time I would get rid of our minivan. Thanks for taking the time to link me those cars. I appreciate the help so much. Happy Thanksgiving!

coffeelover

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In this day in age most vehicle brands are reliable and I think most will get you to the 200K mileage mark if you take care of it. The one area that I'm skeptical is diesel trucks because of all the new technology...it's a mess!

Engines and transmissions have come a long way, but often times it's everything else that falls apart.  A/C systems, heater cores, radiators, suspension bushings, power window regulators, seatbelt inertia reels, buttons & switches, coilpacks, catalysts and other emissions equipment, sensors, and anything else you can think of.  It's pretty easy for a car with a solid engine & transmission to still have everything else imaginable fall apart if you get an unlucky ticket in the used car lottery.

There's not a whole ton of free resources for used car reliability, but this page of used car rankings at least goes back to 2007, which is better than nothing.  Even if you're looking at a 2003 model or something, you can potentially look at the rankings for the 2007 version of that car, or the nearest model to it.  JD Power & Consumer Reports also regularly publish general studies, but it's harder to get down to the ratings for specific models, as often times even within a brand, specific models may have very different reliability from other models.

Thanks for the link you attached, this looks like a good resource for used cars.

coffeelover

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My parents never bought any of us cars. We were expected to get ourselves where we needed by bicycle (which we did). If we wanted a car, we could buy one - with our own money. Borrowing the family car could be done with advance permission and by paying for gas. Needless to say, none of us opted to buy a car. Just not necessary when a bike can get you where you need to go. Biking to school when I was in college made a lot more open to biking everywhere as I am doing now.

Another thread where you proclaim your awesomeness as a bike rider while totally ignoring reality. Thanks, you were a real contribution to the last one you jumped in on. ( this is where I would insert the "roll eyes" smiley if there was the option) The OP has repeatedly made it clear that biking is NOT a safe option for her child, but as in the past, why let facts get in your way.

Remind me - are we on the Mustachian forums or the Sukka Consumer forums? Last time I checked, biking is one of the core tenants of Mustachianism, and cycling safety is not an issue (and also an expensive illusion).

I think a facepunch may be in order.

I agree wholeheartedly, but before you go giving yourself a well deserved slap in your pie hole, please have someone roll video. If your going to smack a bit of that smug hipster bullshit out of yourself, please let us enjoy your pain.

Hey, maybe a different approach, like stroking your ego, will help? I'll go first. You are awesome! Only a true superhero rides a bike as much as you do, we are all lame consumers and bow to your greatness. There, does that puff you up enough?

Now, since you tend to totally ignore reality, we can cover this again. As the OP and I have explained repeatedly, we (as in tens of millions of us) live in rural, flyover country. This is that icky area between NYC and the awesome city that you live in. Now pay attention, because this will be the fourth or fifth time that folks have answered your smug questioning of this. There are vast areas of this country that do not have even a hint of a bike riding culture. Areas where there are endless miles of unlit, shoulderless, high speed secondary roads, where not a single person ever commutes anywhere on a bicycle. Self righteous indignation over sharing the road issues , or bikers having all the rights of any motorist, are not even thoughts in these parts. You want to ride in an environment like that, please feel free, but like many I wouldn't allow, or expect my children to do so. Now here's another thing that you seem to struggle with. Flyover country is not a place where everything you will ever need is located within a small radius from your super trendy apartment. In my case one of my kids had friends, school and a job all 10-25 miles from the house, all in different directions. Not only would a bike be dangerous, but of no use when there was 75 miles of commuting, school and work to be done in a day.
With regard to mustachian behavior, yea it would be great to live in a place where all of the necessities of life are within bike range, and there is a bike culture in place.  There is no doubt that the massive amount of commuting that the wife and I did over our careers, and while raising our children, was a huge drain on our finances, but it is what it is. We both landed high paying jobs fifty miles apart and split the difference when it came to settling down. Since the area we chose nearly quadrupled in population over the two decades we spent there, we were far from pioneers in doing so. Now that we are FIREd, were moving on to a better lifestyle and leaving the clown car game behind. All of that however doesn't change the fact that for most folks in rural America, a cars is a vital tool to advance in life, and a bike isn't an acceptable substitute.

Thanks again for having my back, again I like your style, haha.

Forcus

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I wanted to let everyone know to read the update I posted in the first post.
Thanks for everyone's input, it really did help us in making a decision.

Congrats!! I know I agonize over this kind of thing forever.