Need to buy a vehicle that can tow a boat - looking for recommendations

[wildatheart]

My 2013 Chevy Suburban, which I use to go back and forth between my AirBnB is starting to give signs of nearing its end life. With 159k miles, I've put more than $1300 into "Check engine" lights last year. So, it's time for a different vehicle. I bought this one used because I need to tow my 20 ft boat back and forth over a 300-mile trip once every 2 weeks or so. It has been superb but the time is near so I can trade it or sell it while it still runs well.

What sort of Mustachian advice can you give this newly FIREd traveler?

Thanks!
-wildatheart

FIREd - 3/29/2020

[NorthernMonkey]

I cant help thinking you're fixing the wrong problem. There must be a better option than 'pull a boat for 300 miles'

[Sailor Sam]

Any fully steel, ladder framed truck. If you want more seats, another Suburban, or a GMC or Ford SUV. Depending on how much the boat and trailer weight, you could also look into a Toyota Sequoia, or a Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Why, for the sake of all that’s holy, are you towing a 20’ boat 300 miles twice a month?

[wildatheart]

...
Why, for the sake of all that’s holy, are you towing a 20’ boat 300 miles twice a month?

I FIRE'd so I could do more fishing. I fish all over, but for now, I have a home-base residence and then a few rental properties. When I go to transition a short term rental property between tenants, I bring my boat and choose from the many fishing spots nearby.

[wildatheart]

I cant help thinking you're fixing the wrong problem. There must be a better option than 'pull a boat for 300 miles'

I enjoy options and renting someone else's boat when I want to fish is hellishly expensive and limits my options. So, I bring my own platform with the gear I know and trust with me.
The inquiry was seriously about the vehicle though. I enjoy pulling the boat.

[Sailor Sam]

Ah, fair enough. I interpreted your original post as you going to the same launch spot over and over.

[fishnfool]

159K miles, that thing will go 300k miles. Our 04 Yukon Denaili has 201k  and runs like a top. I do most of my own repair and maintenance so my costs are less to keep it running. But I would put a lot more miles on that Suburban. They are great tow vehicles.

[Malum Prohibitum]

159K miles, that thing will go 300k miles. Our 04 Yukon Denaili has 201k  and runs like a top. I do most of my own repair and maintenance so my costs are less to keep it running. But I would put a lot more miles on that Suburban. They are great tow vehicles.

I own two.  A 2005 Yukon with 330,000 still going strong, and a 2012 Denali XL with more miles than the OP's (about 170k) which drives like new, although the adjustable lumbar support in the fancy cooled seats just gave out this week!  Oh, no!

[fishnfool]

159K miles, that thing will go 300k miles. Our 04 Yukon Denaili has 201k  and runs like a top. I do most of my own repair and maintenance so my costs are less to keep it running. But I would put a lot more miles on that Suburban. They are great tow vehicles.

I own two.  A 2005 Yukon with 330,000 still going strong, and a 2012 Denali XL with more miles than the OP's (about 170k) which drives like new, although the adjustable lumbar support in the fancy cooled seats just gave out this week!  Oh, no!

Great family wagons for sure!

Resale value on these is terrible. So better to drive them into the ground. They go far.

[Car Jack]

I used to tow an 18 foot bow rider and also an 18' enclosed racecar trailer.  My vehicle of choice?  Yukon XL, which is of course the twin to your Suburban.  I would simply go through your Suburban and bring it to 100% and keep it.  As mentioned, these things continue to depreciate long after most vehicles have leveled off.

[rothwem]

Great family wagons for sure!

Resale value on these is terrible. So better to drive them into the ground. They go far.

Have you actually looked at what full-size SUVs cost used lately? It’s insane. The suburban holds its value extremely well. I missed how much your boat weighs, you could probably downsize and not loose too much in the exchange. There’s a lot of  CUVs out there that get better gas mileage that can town 3500-5000 pounds and get better mileage. I think the Highlander can tow 5000, and they’re really nicely driving vehicles and pretty dependable.

With that said, I think I’d just fix the truck. The CEL literally tells the technician what to replace, if he can’t figure it out you need to find a new one.  That generation is a pretty great generation of suburban and they share a lot of parts with the trucks so you can get rebuilt transmissions, motors, driveline parts, etc really easily.  The price difference between your current vehicle and a new one can probably buy a lot of gas, though I know it’s not THaT mustachian.

[FINate]

You spent $1300 last year fixing it? Pfft, that's a bargain! Monthly payments on a new (or new used) tow vehicle will far exceed that. Or, if you pay cash, the opportunity cost of not having that money invested will also cost you more. And what's the annual depreciation on a newer vehicle?

The notion that you need to trade it in while it's still running is used to sell vehicles to consumer suckas. Pretty much anything can be repaired/replaced and this will almost always cost less than getting a newer vehicle. Once the frame starts to rust out and/or most of the major systems are worn out, then it makes sense to get a newer vehicle. But this shouldn't happen until well past 200k miles. Until then, just keep maintaining it.

[Syonyk]

How heavy is the boat/trailer combo?

But, seriously, a newer tow vehicle will cost you most of your annual repair bill, monthly, in payments.  It's a truck.  They're not cheap to repair.  None of them are.

Fix the Suburban and keep going - I mean, it's only 7 years old.  My truck is north of 20.

[alsoknownasDean]

What were the issues that had popped up in the last year?

I'll echo the others, that truck should have plenty of life left in it.

[HPstache]

What were the issues that had popped up in the last year?

I'll echo the others, that truck should have plenty of life left in it.

Seconded.  What's wrong with it?

[MilesTeg]

My 2013 Chevy Suburban, which I use to go back and forth between my AirBnB is starting to give signs of nearing its end life. With 159k miles, I've put more than $1300 into "Check engine" lights last year. So, it's time for a different vehicle. I bought this one used because I need to tow my 20 ft boat back and forth over a 300-mile trip once every 2 weeks or so. It has been superb but the time is near so I can trade it or sell it while it still runs well.

What sort of Mustachian advice can you give this newly FIREd traveler?

Thanks!
-wildatheart

FIREd - 3/29/2020

Extremely unlikely that a.vehicle that's got 160k highway miles on it and is 8 years old is anywhere near done for.

That said, if you do replace it don't replace it with anything but another real tow vehicle unless you're towing a dingy. As often and as far as you tow you do not want to be riding in the edge of the vehicle's tow limit. Using your tow vehicle at or near its limit occasionally and for short distances in good weather is fine and dandy. Across hundreds of miles every couple of weeks it's just dumb (IMHO)

Better yet find a solution to not tow that far that often. ;)

[ixtap]

My 2013 Chevy Suburban, which I use to go back and forth between my AirBnB is starting to give signs of nearing its end life. With 159k miles, I've put more than $1300 into "Check engine" lights last year. So, it's time for a different vehicle. I bought this one used because I need to tow my 20 ft boat back and forth over a 300-mile trip once every 2 weeks or so. It has been superb but the time is near so I can trade it or sell it while it still runs well.

What sort of Mustachian advice can you give this newly FIREd traveler?

Thanks!
-wildatheart

FIREd - 3/29/2020

Do you mean that you have invested this much in diagnosis without actually finding the problem? Or you have spent this much on maintenance? Those are two very different things!

I recently spent $3k on maintenance on my much smaller, slightly older, similar mileage vehicle because that is how you keep them running. To replace it, I would have had to spend ~$3k, and may have still needed to do the maintenance on that new to me vehicle. I prefer to stick with this one, thank you.

That being said, once upon a time, my criteria was when I was spending more at the mechanics over several months than a new car payment would cost and the problem still hadn't been cleared up.

[CrabbitDutchie]

We used to tow a 14ft boat all over the place with a Renault Clio (1.4L petrol engine).

Not a serious suggestion, just making the point that you often need a lot less car than you think.

[wildatheart]

What were the issues that had popped up in the last year?

I'll echo the others, that truck should have plenty of life left in it.

Thanks for asking. The engine is consistently fuel fouling plugs #1 or #7. The mechanics tell me this particular engine usually needs to be replaced when this problem starts happening. That's a lot to put into an older vehicle.

Could be I'm being told BS, but they've treated me fairly on the other high mileage Mazda we have.

[BikeFanatic]

The nissan pathfinder tows pretty good maybe 3500 pounds if I recall maybe more

[norajean]

Frugal people do not own boats because they don’t like the opex/capex of the boat nor the tow vehicle. That said, get the smallest, cheapest, oldest Japanese truck that can pull your boat.  And consider getting a much smaller fishing boat so you can use a cheaper, small truck or even a car.

[ixtap]

Frugal people do not own boats because they don’t like the opex/capex of the boat nor the tow vehicle. That said, get the smallest, cheapest, oldest Japanese truck that can pull your boat.  And consider getting a much smaller fishing boat so you can use a cheaper, small truck or even a car.

Meh. Frugal people sometimes own boats because it is a good value for their money compared to the alternatives for the amount of joy it brings them. In some HCOL areas, living on a boat can also be a very frugal option.

YOU CAN HAVE MY BOAT WHEN I AM GOOD AND DONE WITH IT AND NOT A MINUTE SOONER!

[Malum Prohibitum]

What were the issues that had popped up in the last year?

I'll echo the others, that truck should have plenty of life left in it.

Thanks for asking. The engine is consistently fuel fouling plugs #1 or #7. The mechanics tell me this particular engine usually needs to be replaced when this problem starts happening. That's a lot to put into an older vehicle.

Could be I'm being told BS, but they've treated me fairly on the other high mileage Mazda we have.

That is the AFM (active fuel management), and is a well known problem with that vehicle.  Your mechanic's suggestion, however, is nuts.  Maybe it is just ignorance on his part?

You did not mention any valve tick noise, so the lifters have not yet started to fail.  This is good news.  You also did not mention heavy oil consumption.  Also good news.

  Just go to a tuner shop or obtain a tune (or AFM disabler) and turn off the AFM.  Problem solved.  This is a simple instruction from your computer not to deactivate any of the valves under light throttle conditions.   It will not affect your mileage at all when towing, as I doubt the AFM ever disabled any cylinders while towing.

[Syonyk]

That said, get the smallest, cheapest, oldest Japanese truck that can pull your boat.

That's terrible advice for someone towing regularly.

[Sailor Sam]

Frugal people do not own boats because they don’t like the opex/capex of the boat nor the tow vehicle. That said, get the smallest, cheapest, oldest Japanese truck that can pull your boat.  And consider getting a much smaller fishing boat so you can use a cheaper, small truck or even a car.

Meh. Frugal people sometimes own boats because it is a good value for their money compared to the alternatives for the amount of joy it brings them. In some HCOL areas, living on a boat can also be a very frugal option.

YOU CAN HAVE MY BOAT WHEN I AM GOOD AND DONE WITH IT AND NOT A MINUTE SOONER!

Frugal people definitely own boats. The only verification required is to stand downwind when some gnarly-ass all-weather cruiser comes sailing sailing into the harbor, flawlessly med-moors single handed, and some gnarly-ass gender-undetermined-from-grime person rows ashore, only to beat their salt-eaten laundry on a nearby rock because “marina washing machines are ‘spensive, mate, don’tchaknow.”

I’ve also made the acquaintance of many people who are too frugal to purchase things like EPIRBS and life rafts. They are often sad, or just kinda dead. But dead people hella frugal!

ETA: which reminds me! @wildatheart, you’re wearing your flotation, eh? *squinty look*

[ixtap]

Frugal people do not own boats because they don’t like the opex/capex of the boat nor the tow vehicle. That said, get the smallest, cheapest, oldest Japanese truck that can pull your boat.  And consider getting a much smaller fishing boat so you can use a cheaper, small truck or even a car.

Meh. Frugal people sometimes own boats because it is a good value for their money compared to the alternatives for the amount of joy it brings them. In some HCOL areas, living on a boat can also be a very frugal option.

YOU CAN HAVE MY BOAT WHEN I AM GOOD AND DONE WITH IT AND NOT A MINUTE SOONER!

Frugal people definitely own boats. The only verification required is to stand downwind when some gnarly-ass all-weather cruiser comes sailing sailing into the harbor, flawlessly med-moors single handed, and some gnarly-ass gender-undetermined-from-grime person rows ashore, only to beat their salt-eaten laundry on a nearby rock because “marina washing machines are ‘spensive, mate, don’tchaknow.”

I’ve also made the acquaintance of many people who are too frugal to purchase things like EPIRBS and life rafts. They are often sad, or just kinda dead. But dead people hella frugal!

ETA: which reminds me! @wildatheart, you’re wearing your flotation, eh? *squinty look*

We do wear our flotation! We have inshore autoinflates, offshore auto inflates, ski vests (great snorkeling or cold weather accessory) and paddling vests. We did forget to grab any of them when we went to the pump out yesterday and I felt duly chagrined when I realized it and mentioned it in our debrief.

But there is a difference between cheap and frugal. I spend enough to be comfortable and happy, I just don't waste money. Unless you count the Sea Dek, but dang, I LOVE that Sea Dek. The deck is soft and not at all slippy, even covered in foamy Starbrite and sheets of water!!

[wildatheart]

What were the issues that had popped up in the last year?

I'll echo the others, that truck should have plenty of life left in it.

Thanks for asking. The engine is consistently fuel fouling plugs #1 or #7. The mechanics tell me this particular engine usually needs to be replaced when this problem starts happening. That's a lot to put into an older vehicle.

Could be I'm being told BS, but they've treated me fairly on the other high mileage Mazda we have.

That is the AFM (active fuel management), and is a well known problem with that vehicle.  Your mechanic's suggestion, however, is nuts.  Maybe it is just ignorance on his part?

You did not mention any valve tick noise, so the lifters have not yet started to fail.  This is good news.  You also did not mention heavy oil consumption.  Also good news.

  Just go to a tuner shop or obtain a tune (or AFM disabler) and turn off the AFM.  Problem solved.  This is a simple instruction from your computer not to deactivate any of the valves under light throttle conditions.   It will not affect your mileage at all when towing, as I doubt the AFM ever disabled any cylinders while towing.

That's great news! Thank you.
Also - thanks for addressing the situation with helpful info and staying on topic - LOL.
 

[wildatheart]

Frugal people do not own boats because they don’t like the opex/capex of the boat nor the tow vehicle. That said, get the smallest, cheapest, oldest Japanese truck that can pull your boat.  And consider getting a much smaller fishing boat so you can use a cheaper, small truck or even a car.

Hmm... seems a little judgemental but I appreciate your reply. I'd say wine cellars and riding lawn mowers might not be frugal according to that definition but I know people still like to mow large lawns quickly and drink great wine. To each their own. Thanks again for your reply.

[Syonyk]

Looks like an AFM Disabler (plugs into your OBD-II port) is about $200 from a variety of sources.  A bit of reading indicates it's a frequent problem on that range of engines, and I'm guessing you don't want to pull the engine apart to actually physically remove the parts with a delete kit.

https://www.rangetechnology.com/products/afm-dfm_disabler/

Sure cheaper than a new truck. ;)

[ericrugiero]

Lots of vehicles disable a cylinder or more when under low load. It frequently causes problems like you mentioned. I disabled the feature on our Honda Odyssey.

[Malum Prohibitum]

What were the issues that had popped up in the last year?

I'll echo the others, that truck should have plenty of life left in it.

Thanks for asking. The engine is consistently fuel fouling plugs #1 or #7. The mechanics tell me this particular engine usually needs to be replaced when this problem starts happening. That's a lot to put into an older vehicle.

Could be I'm being told BS, but they've treated me fairly on the other high mileage Mazda we have.

That is the AFM (active fuel management), and is a well known problem with that vehicle.  Your mechanic's suggestion, however, is nuts.  Maybe it is just ignorance on his part?

You did not mention any valve tick noise, so the lifters have not yet started to fail.  This is good news.  You also did not mention heavy oil consumption.  Also good news.

  Just go to a tuner shop or obtain a tune (or AFM disabler) and turn off the AFM.  Problem solved.  This is a simple instruction from your computer not to deactivate any of the valves under light throttle conditions.   It will not affect your mileage at all when towing, as I doubt the AFM ever disabled any cylinders while towing.

That's great news! Thank you.
Also - thanks for addressing the situation with helpful info and staying on topic - LOL.

LOL!  Please let us know how it works out.

[wildatheart]

Looks like an AFM Disabler (plugs into your OBD-II port) is about $200 from a variety of sources.  A bit of reading indicates it's a frequent problem on that range of engines, and I'm guessing you don't want to pull the engine apart to actually physically remove the parts with a delete kit.

https://www.rangetechnology.com/products/afm-dfm_disabler/

Sure cheaper than a new truck. ;)

Wow - Thanks very much! I will let everyone know how my efforts to deactivate the AFM goes. This community is amazing.

[WhiteTrashCash]

Have you ever thought about renting a boat when you want one? Seems a more economical solution unless you use the boat for work.

[GuitarStv]

Maybe you have the wrong boat.  :P

[dogboyslim]

You need an F450 crew cab long bed Diesel Limited.  They are only $90k, and the great fuel efficiency will save you a ton of money!  j/k.  Agree with others on fix your current car and keep it.  A 20 ft. powerboat on a trailer is probably around 5-8k lbs.  Pretty much any 1500 level truck/suv will tow it easily if you can't salvage the current ride.  If your boat/trailer is for some reason closer to 10k lbs, consider a 2500 level truck if you have hills on the route or if you load the vehicle with people/stuff for each trip.