Need Help: VT/NH advice/moving with kids

[Gumption]

I work at home. We currently live in HCOL area and part of our FIRE plan involves selling here, taking the equity (~450k) to purchase a house outright in a LCOL.

My wife has some history with the MA, VT, NH area and we have always wanted get a house with a little land and more privacy than our current "sardines in suburbia" situation.

One important element is that we have 2 kids (8,12) and their education is certainly important. Many of the areas where we could find a perfect property also happen to have some schools that we would want to avoid.

Any advice out there on what to do? Areas? Schools?

[aetherie]

I can vouch for the Upper Valley area of NH/VT, having grown up there. The Hanover/Norwich school system is a 10 on GreatSchools, Lebanon is an 8, Thetford is a 7. It's beautiful and rural and the people are friendly. Worth a look at least :)

[Gumption]

I can vouch for the Upper Valley area of NH/VT, having grown up there. The Hanover/Norwich school system is a 10 on GreatSchools, Lebanon is an 8, Thetford is a 7. It's beautiful and rural and the people are friendly. Worth a look at least :)

Thanks aetherie,
That actually was our original thought. We have family in Hanover and wife went to college there. That would be our top choice for HS for sure, but the problem is Hanover is HCOL. Norwich seems high but perhaps we can dig around there to see what 450k would get us. Thetford seems more affordable...does that feed into Hanover/Norwich?

[aetherie]

I can vouch for the Upper Valley area of NH/VT, having grown up there. The Hanover/Norwich school system is a 10 on GreatSchools, Lebanon is an 8, Thetford is a 7. It's beautiful and rural and the people are friendly. Worth a look at least :)

Thanks aetherie,
That actually was our original thought. We have family in Hanover and wife went to college there. That would be our top choice for HS for sure, but the problem is Hanover is HCOL. Norwich seems high but perhaps we can dig around there to see what 450k would get us. Thetford seems more affordable...does that feed into Hanover/Norwich?

Thetford goes to Thetford Academy, or you can send your kid to Hanover and pay tuition. Here's a (potentially out-of-date) list of the HHS sending districts: http://hs-re.com/area-info/hanover-high-school-sending-districts/

[Gumption]

I can vouch for the Upper Valley area of NH/VT, having grown up there. The Hanover/Norwich school system is a 10 on GreatSchools, Lebanon is an 8, Thetford is a 7. It's beautiful and rural and the people are friendly. Worth a look at least :)

Thanks aetherie,
That actually was our original thought. We have family in Hanover and wife went to college there. That would be our top choice for HS for sure, but the problem is Hanover is HCOL. Norwich seems high but perhaps we can dig around there to see what 450k would get us. Thetford seems more affordable...does that feed into Hanover/Norwich?

Thetford goes to Thetford Academy, or you can send your kid to Hanover and pay tuition. Here's a (potentially out-of-date) list of the HHS sending districts: http://hs-re.com/area-info/hanover-high-school-sending-districts/

This is extremely helpful!

[jjandjab]

In the same upper Valley area, also look at Sharon VT and surrounding towns if you want a bit more rural. The Sharon Academy is a very good high school - essentially a small private school - which might be a good alternative to the much larger and higher stress Hanover High school. There is now high speed fiber internet in the area.

The Berkshires of western MA are really nice  - we currently live in Williamstown, MA and Mt Greylock high school is quite good and there will be a completely new school building in 2018. Elementary school is excellent as well. Williamstown is relatively high cost (home of Williams college), but 450k will get a very reasonable home. Also Hancock, MA is a much smaller town that feeds into the high school and has a super low tax rate (as in we have friends with a 500k home that pay about $600 A YEAR in property tax...). Great culture (Williamstown Theater festival) and activities/museums (Clark Art msueum, Mass Museum of Contemporary Art), local skiing, etc..

Unfortunately, the better school towns in NE are always more expensive, but if you are living a MMM lifestyle, 450k will get a very nice basic house in any of these towns.

[little_brown_dog]

So…much of MA is very different than most of VT. I think you need to narrow down your selection given that New England has such a broad range of COL and resources. As a lifelong new Englander who is familiar with all 3 states (currently live in MA), some very broad generalities for you:

MA is the most expensive, but also the most well resourced state. Much of eastern MA is HCOL to very HCOL but you get what you pay for. This is where you will find many of the best schools and easiest access to Boston for educational opportunities like museums. Sadly, unless you are willing to shell out big bucks (>600k) it is unlikely you will be able to buy a rural-feeling home in a town with good schools within an hour of Boston. Western/Central MA is a good option if you want a lower COL and a rural feel but still don’t want to be super far from medical care, cities, etc. Anything east of 495 tends to be extremely pricey, but the further west of 495 you go the better the prices get.

VT is gorgeous and very rural but also tends to be surprisingly poor in many areas. You have to drive long distances often on winding roads to get to amenities like hospitals, clinics, grocery stores, etc. My daughter once got sick on vacation in rural VT and we couldn't even find a 24 hour pharmacy to buy a thermometer or children's tylenol, and had to drive back to MA in the middle of the night on roads with exits 30 miles apart. School systems I don’t know much about, but would imagine that due to the lower incomes in these areas, many of them are probably not stellar. The pro of Vermont is that it truly will allow you to have that beautiful rural experience for a very reasonable price.

Southern NH is very much like MA in many areas – well resourced but also surprisingly HCOL (not nearly as bad as eastern MA near Boston, but still HCOL compared to many other areas of the country). Southern NH will give you a nice blend of rural feeling without being super far from resources or decent school districts. However, be prepared to pay HCOL prices the closer you get to the MA border. The further north and more rural you go, COL drops.

Edited to add: Some more thoughts on Western MA if interested – the Northampton, Amherst, Deerfield areas (highway 91) are beautifully rural but if I recall correctly also tend to have pretty good school systems. They sit in the Connecticut River Valley which is a big agricultural area for the state due to the fertile soil. Driving through you'll see lots of farms and dairies. Good COL compared to the rest of MA. These towns are about a 2 hour drive to Boston.

[moonpalace]

I live in Montpelier, VT and I *love* it as a place to raise kids.

$450k would get you a very, very nice move-in-ready house, either right in town with a nice private yard, or just outside of town with a couple acres of land.

I've got kids who are 8 and 12 and we've found the elementary and middle schools to be truly outstanding (and, if you're into that sort of thing, it's very easy to find a home within walking distance of both, and both are in walking distance of our stellar public library and very nice compact downtown). On greatschools the elementary and middle are 8, and the HS is 9.

Beyond loving the schools, I really value that it's a town small enough that I feel very safe having the 12-year old roam around town on his own. He goes to the pool, the library, college-league baseball games, friends' houses, downtown, all within an easy, safe, 1-mile bike ride of our house. The 8-year-old isn't quite ready but she walks to school and the library (each a couple blocks) and some friends' houses on her own. I think it's really valuable for them, and it makes for a relatively low-stress parenting experience.

And although the town has a population of only ~7,000, it's the seat of state government, so it feels a bit bigger than that culturally. And Burlington (~250,000-person metro area) is an easy 40-minute highway drive away. Montreal's about two hours.

One warning about Montpelier in particular and VT in general: property taxes are quite high. I pay ~$6,000/year on a $310,000 house. And of course utility costs tend to be high. On the other hand, it's otherwise an easy place to be mustachian, because the general social vibe is just kinda that way. :-)

[kimmarg]

VT is gorgeous and very rural but also tends to be surprisingly poor in many areas. You have to drive long distances often on winding roads to get to amenities like hospitals, clinics, grocery stores, etc. My daughter once got sick on vacation in rural VT and we couldn't even find a 24 hour pharmacy to buy a thermometer or children's tylenol, and had to drive back to MA in the middle of the night on roads with exits 30 miles apart.

This statement could really apply to all of Vermont, Northern New Hampshire and Maine. Grew up in North NH, currently live in Maine. Biggest city in the state (Portland) and a 24hr pharmacy just opened at the hospital last year (Perscriptions only though).  That said these are just lifesyle changes you get used to. Yep, not open 24 hours, yes you have to drive places.

You didn't mention Maine but $450k would easily get you a very nice house with some land in the greater Portland, ME area. Top schools in the state are Cape Elizabeth, Falmouth and Cumberland/North Yarmouth. When we were house shopping a few years ago our real estate agent said it was about a $20k premium for those districts ( e.g. our $200k house would be $220k in the 'good' district)

[little_brown_dog]

VT is gorgeous and very rural but also tends to be surprisingly poor in many areas. You have to drive long distances often on winding roads to get to amenities like hospitals, clinics, grocery stores, etc. My daughter once got sick on vacation in rural VT and we couldn't even find a 24 hour pharmacy to buy a thermometer or children's tylenol, and had to drive back to MA in the middle of the night on roads with exits 30 miles apart.

This statement could really apply to all of Vermont, Northern New Hampshire and Maine. Grew up in North NH, currently live in Maine. Biggest city in the state (Portland) and a 24hr pharmacy just opened at the hospital last year (Perscriptions only though).  That said these are just lifesyle changes you get used to. Yep, not open 24 hours, yes you have to drive places.

You didn't mention Maine but $450k would easily get you a very nice house with some land in the greater Portland, ME area. Top schools in the state are Cape Elizabeth, Falmouth and Cumberland/North Yarmouth. When we were house shopping a few years ago our real estate agent said it was about a $20k premium for those districts ( e.g. our $200k house would be $220k in the 'good' district)

Yes you are absolutely right – the reason I mentioned it is because I find that in my own experience a lot of people are shocked when they realize how poor some sections of New England really are (even other New Englanders who have never really traveled much outside the coastal areas). The northeast has a reputation for being very affluent, but many of the more northern and rural areas are quite poor, isolated, and lack resources. I think our tiny states on maps can also sometimes give off the impression to outsiders that many areas in places like rural NH and VT aren’t so far from urban centers, but when you actually get here, the reality is very different.  As for the driving, I figured it was worth mentioning. Not everyone wants to be an hour’s drive from a hospital, medical care, or grocery stores on winding roads, especially if they have children.

+1 to looking into Maine too. Seriously I love New England and would happily live in every state in the region.

[poniesandFIRE]

In the same upper Valley area, also look at Sharon VT and surrounding towns if you want a bit more rural. The Sharon Academy is a very good high school - essentially a small private school - which might be a good alternative to the much larger and higher stress Hanover High school. There is now high speed fiber internet in the area.

Another vote for this area. I grew up around here and had friends at The Sharon Academy, as well as a great teacher from my public high school that ended up teaching there years later. I loved growing up in Vermont and I had an excellent experience in the public schools from elementary through high school.

$450k will get you nice, move in ready with some land. Taxes, while not NY/NJ high, are still something to consider strongly.

[MrsDinero]

My husband and I moved to NH almost 3 years ago.  We bought a large home 2400 sqft on 6.5 acres for $250k just south of the White Mountains.  While schools are important we were also looking for quality of life and wanted space.  Our property backs up to 170acres of mountainside forest. 

Our 2 kids are 10 months and 21 months so we have a bit of time for school.  The school district isn't the highest rated in fact it gets a 5 from Great Schools, but we know people who have kids currently enrolled and graduated and absolutely love it.  Most likely we will send our kids to a private K-8 school that encourages independent learning, nature, and community.  Kind of like a hippie, academic, nature school. 

We live in a rural area where there is a large mix of lower and higher income people. Which I think enriches our lives.  I didn't want to live with a bunch of people just like me.  School is great but it is also the outside experiences that count as well.  This place is very family/kid friendly. 

ETA:  For medical we live close to a college town with a small regional hospital that can deal with routine/urgent/crisis care.  I had both my babies at this hospital and loved the OB and nursing staff.   For any specialties we are 1h 20 minutes from Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center or 2 hours from Boston.   

[Gumption]

Really appreciate everyone's responses. It is amazing that you all have taken the time and thought to respond to my question!
My wife and I went through the comments last night and besides being really amazed and grateful at the comments, we did hone a little bit more on our plan.

A lot of this is based on the fact that my wife as lived out in many areas in NE, we have some family out there, and we visit every few years.

Montpelier, VT I think would be a perfect fit, but I think its just too far up north. Winter is a bit of a concern, and I think we would just be crushed up there. Also, those property taxes are insane. We would be looking at ~$800 a month in property taxes! ouch. Thanks moonpalace for the feedback. We do really like that town and its vibe.

Maine: we looked out there many years ago. Portland/Yarmouth. It just wasn't the right fit. A little too remote from a large city/culture when we get that urge.
Mass: some nice areas. we would be looking western. Amherst/Northhampton as just simply become too crowded. Williamstown is a new one. Ill need to check that out. So much has been in the press lately about drug use in this area...thoughts? Im guessing its everywhere anyway.
VT: many pockets of poverty. We were looking at Bratteboro for a bit. It has a great Whole Foods type COOP. I think in 10 years itll be a hip place. For right now, its just a little too rough around the edges for us and the schools are not rated well. I will check out Sharon, VT.
NH: we like the Hanover area, but Hanover itself is becoming ridiculously crowded. Its also was overpriced and we don't want to live in the city proper.
Right now, Norwich, VT is looking interesting. We may have to pay a little more, but that feeds into Hanover HS and you could ride a bike there in 10-15mins. I think the suggestion of paying a little more, using the school system and then moving after is an interesting option. I think we could get a little land and still feed into Hanover HS if we choose Norwich, or south of Hanover a bit.

[Guesl982374]

This is a year old and goes into way more info regarding race than you are asking for, however the top chart where you can search for school districts / tows / cities is a good way to compare across states.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/04/29/upshot/money-race-and-success-how-your-school-district-compares.html?_r=2

[2microsNH]

I live in a LCOL area of southwestern NH and have also lived on the HCOL seacoast of NH, and I love(d) both. Property taxes in my current mid-sized (25K) NH town are very high ($5K on a $150K house), but the public schools are excellent, and we also have strong Waldorf schools. My location is within cycling distance of several beautiful rural communities, and within 1.25 hours of Hanover and its resources. Brattleboro, VT is about 25 minutes by car (you may also want to check out Brattleboro). My town has a large medical facility that is part of the Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center, but I do drive up to Hanover for specialty medical visits (e.g., spinal surgeon, neurologist) because my experience is that the quality of care is higher at the Hanover branch.

Norwich, VT is gorgeous but very expensive. Quechee, VT is also very beautiful but expensive. I also love the Newfane, VT area, but it's rural and you'd be driving a lot for services. If you want to spend minimal time in traffic, avoid eastern MA and most of the NH seacoast as well as Manchester, NH, where population densities are higher.

One additional aspect to consider is the 'culture' in each of these states. In my experience, NH leans libertarian and we have a lot of 'free-staters' that can lean right. VT is laid-back, groovy, and leftie, and MA is a mix of laid-back, groovy hippies and uber-educated lefties. ME has an independent spirit that I admire and I love coastal fishing communities, but politically it leans right.

As others here have posted, I'd be happy virtually anywhere in VT, NH, and ME, and possibly western (not eastern) MA. Good luck with your decision!

[Gumption]

As far as Sharon VT goes, how is the drive from there into Hanover?
Mapquest gets me there in 15-20min, but is that some crazy, windy, unplowed VT road?

[2microsNH]

You can drive from Sharon, VT to Hanover, NH on very well-maintained major highways (89 and 91) -- easy trip, as long as you're close to 89 in Sharon. If you'd want to ride (bike) into Hanover, you'd have to use Route 114 south and then Route 5 north, both of which are heavily-trafficked and have narrow shoulders. An alternative would be to ride to Hanover on hilly, rural gravel backroads, which are gorgeous but slow (for me, anyway).

[aetherie]

If you'd want to ride (bike) into Hanover, you'd have to use Route 114 south and then Route 5 north, both of which are heavily-trafficked and have narrow shoulders. An alternative would be to ride to Hanover on hilly, rural gravel backroads, which are gorgeous but slow (for me, anyway).

Yeah, I would not want to bike on Route 5.

[moonpalace]

Montpelier, VT I think would be a perfect fit, but I think its just too far up north. Winter is a bit of a concern, and I think we would just be crushed up there. Also, those property taxes are insane. We would be looking at ~$800 a month in property taxes! ouch. Thanks moonpalace for the feedback. We do really like that town and its vibe.

I've got no answer on the property-tax issue in Montpelier. It's just brutal! Worth it for us while we have kids in the schools, but pretty hard to stomach!

On the weather, though: I lived in South Royalton, Tunbridge, and Woodstock (all right around Sharon) before moving to Montpelier, and haven't found the winter weather to be appreciably different. In Montpelier I'm closer to the mountains, though, so winter's more fun!

[Gumption]

Good info about Montpelier and weather. We have friends in Burlington who know us well and are always talking about how Montpelier would be perfect for us. Dang property taxes! We will keep it on the shortlist for now though. Perhaps those taxes are worth it in the meantime as you suggest. Thanks moonpalace.

Well at this point its just more research. Right now we are just continuing to investigate areas and open it up to a little south of Hanover as well. I like the proximity of Norwich and Quechee to Hanover, but those areas seem just a little too pretentious for our taste. Sharon seems like a very good spot as far as what we are looking for. I am just wondering how that drive would be on an almost daily basis. We go out there in the fall so we will have to see what that feels like.

Looking into other good high schools out there as well, primarily southern VT/NH to see what options that might open for us.

Complicated stuff. I have been working from home for 15 years and I feel like an idiot for not taking advantage of it by living in suburbia. But, when you actually start looking at options, it just isn't as easy as you would think -- particularly when kids are added in to the equation. Maybe we do an initial move to a good school, then once the kids are out, we move to more of a rural area.

 One thing is for sure, it seems like property values out there have been most flat for years. Where I am at now, they seem to go up at least 5% yearly even since the recession.

[Bird In Hand]

Good info about Montpelier and weather. We have friends in Burlington who know us well and are always talking about how Montpelier would be perfect for us. Dang property taxes! We will keep it on the shortlist for now though. Perhaps those taxes are worth it in the meantime as you suggest. Thanks moonpalace.
...
Looking into other good high schools out there as well, primarily southern VT/NH to see what options that might open for us.

If your choice comes down to some areas along the NH/VT border, you may find comparable schools, housing costs, and real estate taxes.  But other taxes in those states are very different.  VT has one of the highest income taxes in the country, and NH has no general income tax.  Also VT has a general sales tax that NH lacks, but NH has a 9% restaurants and hotel tax.  If you're self-employed NH has a hefty business profits tax -- not sure about VT.  The difference in tax structure in the two states could have a big impact on your take-home income, so do your research!

[moonpalace]

Good info about Montpelier and weather. We have friends in Burlington who know us well and are always talking about how Montpelier would be perfect for us. Dang property taxes! We will keep it on the shortlist for now though. Perhaps those taxes are worth it in the meantime as you suggest. Thanks moonpalace.

Drop me a line if you come to Montpelier! And, obviously I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but even if you *have* $450k to spend, no need to spend it all. You could get a perfectly nice house in Montpelier (and probably in some of these other places as well, although maybe not Norwich/Hanover) for ~2/3 of that, and mitigate the property-tax thing that way. I live in town, 2200-sf, 3-bdrm house, large lovely yard bordering a park, walking distance to everything, and paid $306k two years ago. You're spot on about real-estate values being generally flat lately around here. Definitely not 5% appreciation!

[Bird In Hand]

You're spot on about real-estate values being generally flat lately around here. Definitely not 5% appreciation!

I bet you wish you could say the same about your property tax :D

[moonpalace]

You're spot on about real-estate values being generally flat lately around here. Definitely not 5% appreciation!

I bet you wish you could say the same about your property tax :D

Amen to that!

[Gumption]

Good info about Montpelier and weather. We have friends in Burlington who know us well and are always talking about how Montpelier would be perfect for us. Dang property taxes! We will keep it on the shortlist for now though. Perhaps those taxes are worth it in the meantime as you suggest. Thanks moonpalace.
...
Looking into other good high schools out there as well, primarily southern VT/NH to see what options that might open for us.

If your choice comes down to some areas along the NH/VT border, you may find comparable schools, housing costs, and real estate taxes.  But other taxes in those states are very different.  VT has one of the highest income taxes in the country, and NH has no general income tax.  Also VT has a general sales tax that NH lacks, but NH has a 9% restaurants and hotel tax.  If you're self-employed NH has a hefty business profits tax -- not sure about VT.  The difference in tax structure in the two states could have a big impact on your take-home income, so do your research!

Thank you Bird in Hand. This was kind of the task Ive been putting off that has been secretly keeping me up at night. In general, property taxes in both states are high. In general, it seems you can expect to pay $20 per 1k in taxes on a house in VT/NH. So a $450k house would be around $750/mo (gulp.) Compare that to where I am now in Colorado (one of the lowest property tax states) where I pay about $7 per 1k in taxes. A $450k house here is around $260 per month in taxes. That certainly adds up.

One thing to note is that if you plopped a $450k VT/NH house/property here in my county, it would probably be worth close to $1M (a slight exaggeration, but not by much.)

The business side of things is a little more confusing. VT seems to tax everything that moves. NH has no income tax, but does put that 8.5% on profit (including passthrough income from S corps like myself) I need to run the numbers to see exactly what this means in my case. Not sure exactly how to do that other than talk to a CPA out there.

So where does that leave me? Last year in CO, we paid ~5k in state income taxes. When I take that off the books being in NH, it helps a little with the property tax increase...just a little. Once we hit FIRE, this becomes less of an issue with less income. Anyway, we simply will be looking for a little less of a house, perhaps, and just factoring in that expense when looking at FIRE dates and budget. We need to run the numbers again.

Does income level affect property taxes in VT/NH? Need to look at that as well. Planning on 2020 FIRE, so we will be in a lower income bracket for sure.

Appreciate all the responses. I think I am becoming annoying. Apologies.

[MMMarbleheader]

Check out shelburne falls Massachusetts or the hill towns (hampen and hampshire counties west of the river) It on ft 2 so it can get you to Boston or the ocean in 2 hours. Has a some decent culture for a small town. Lower taxes than Vermont and offers the Massachusetts school curriculum.

I too looked into moving to vt but the housing is expensive and the taxes are high. I just feel western mass gives you a lot of what vt has but you can rely on the Massachusetts programs that are funded by the eastern part of the state. When your kids are older, UMass is a better school then uvm. Also if there was a state that could figure out a single payer or public option it is Massachusetts.

Check out the blog below for awesome kid activities

http://www.hilltownfamilies.org
https://m.facebook.com/HilltownFamilies/

[MMMarbleheader]

Good info about Montpelier and weather. We have friends in Burlington who know us well and are always talking about how Montpelier would be perfect for us. Dang property taxes! We will keep it on the shortlist for now though. Perhaps those taxes are worth it in the meantime as you suggest. Thanks moonpalace.
...
Looking into other good high schools out there as well, primarily southern VT/NH to see what options that might open for us.

If your choice comes down to some areas along the NH/VT border, you may find comparable schools, housing costs, and real estate taxes.  But other taxes in those states are very different.  VT has one of the highest income taxes in the country, and NH has no general income tax.  Also VT has a general sales tax that NH lacks, but NH has a 9% restaurants and hotel tax.  If you're self-employed NH has a hefty business profits tax -- not sure about VT.  The difference in tax structure in the two states could have a big impact on your take-home income, so do your research!

Thank you Bird in Hand. This was kind of the task Ive been putting off that has been secretly keeping me up at night. In general, property taxes in both states are high. In general, it seems you can expect to pay $20 per 1k in taxes on a house in VT/NH. So a $450k house would be around $750/mo (gulp.) Compare that to where I am now in Colorado (one of the lowest property tax states) where I pay about $7 per 1k in taxes. A $450k house here is around $260 per month in taxes. That certainly adds up.

One thing to note is that if you plopped a $450k VT/NH house/property here in my county, it would probably be worth close to $1M (a slight exaggeration, but not by much.)

The business side of things is a little more confusing. VT seems to tax everything that moves. NH has no income tax, but does put that 8.5% on profit (including passthrough income from S corps like myself) I need to run the numbers to see exactly what this means in my case. Not sure exactly how to do that other than talk to a CPA out there.

So where does that leave me? Last year in CO, we paid ~5k in state income taxes. When I take that off the books being in NH, it helps a little with the property tax increase...just a little. Once we hit FIRE, this becomes less of an issue with less income. Anyway, we simply will be looking for a little less of a house, perhaps, and just factoring in that expense when looking at FIRE dates and budget. We need to run the numbers again.

Does income level affect property taxes in VT/NH? Need to look at that as well. Planning on 2020 FIRE, so we will be in a lower income bracket for sure.

Appreciate all the responses. I think I am becoming annoying. Apologies.

Vermont has a weird property tax scheme that is meant to make they higher income and vacationers pay a ton in property taxes. If your income is low you can get an abatement.

[moonpalace]

Vermont has a weird property tax scheme that is meant to make they higher income and vacationers pay a ton in property taxes. If your income is low you can get an abatement.

Yup. I haven't gotten the abatement in years, but when I was eligible for it I remember it being pretty generous. Looks like max. potential abatement now is $8k/year, but I'm not familiar with the calculation. Worth looking into in your situation, for sure.

[meatface]

Lebanon, NH is a really good compromise in terms of cost, schools, and location. And a couple years ago it got rated the Best Small Town in America.

[Gumption]

Vermont has a weird property tax scheme that is meant to make they higher income and vacationers pay a ton in property taxes. If your income is low you can get an abatement.

Yup. I haven't gotten the abatement in years, but when I was eligible for it I remember it being pretty generous. Looks like max. potential abatement now is $8k/year, but I'm not familiar with the calculation. Worth looking into in your situation, for sure.

moonpalace, we are going to go through in the fall. do you know any good real estate agents?
do you know what your property tax rate is? If i am reading it correctly, for Montpeiler it is 2.69%
You do start getting a break when your income is below $137k, which will certainly be us once we FIRE, so there is that.

[Dee18]

If you are thinking about Sharon, you should learn about the NewVistas project in which a wealthy Mormon has purchased about 1500 acres, of the 5000 he seeks, to build a utopian community of 20,000 people.  There's a brief film here:

[inline five]

Southern NH.

Fairly low cost of living but no state income tax. Economy is good. I grew up in Nashua, did most of my schooling there. Schools are good.

[moonpalace]

moonpalace, we are going to go through in the fall. do you know any good real estate agents?

I don't, unfortunately - didn't use one when we bought here. Sorry I can't be a help on that.

do you know what your property tax rate is? If i am reading it correctly, for Montpeiler it is 2.69%

I think it's now 2.746% (per the town website).

You do start getting a break when your income is below $137k, which will certainly be us once we FIRE, so there is that.

That's great! I need to look into that again. We're above that now but that abatement would be another benefit of "downsizing" my job a bit at some point in the next few years.

Good luck with the search, and feel free to PM me if you have any Montpelier/central-VT questions.

[nancyjnelson]

FWIW, if you like the community and the property that is available to you, I wouldn't put so much weight on the Great Schools number because they are so greatly influenced by the economic background of the students.  Instead focus on the types of classes they offer.  Four years ago I retired and moved to a small town in Wisconsin where the Great Schools rating was only a 4 (the school had a large population of children of illiterate immigrants and children of mill workers who had fallen on hard times).  However, the HS offered all the AP courses, plus college-level Japanese (I have no idea how that came about).  My daughter spent her last three years of HS at this low-rated school, and when she entered college (U of WI-Madison) she was already technically a sophomore due to the number of credits she had amassed.  It's been a year.  She made dean's list her first two semesters, and will be able to graduate in three years if she so chooses.

Parents who are involved and supportive are more indicative of scholarly success than the reputation or rating of the particular school.

Keep in mind you might not have much in common with former mill workers or illiterate immigrants (I don't, but I knew I'd only be staying a few years so that's okay), so you might want to prioritize settling in a community that is supportive of your values and your approach to life.