Need advice - Mother in law moved in and is a hoarder (& other financial issues)

[FrugalSaver]

3 years ago the father in law abruptly died.  a year later the mother in law moved in.  The house wasn't big enough.  She had little to no money and had spent through their 401k already once before.  Then almost bankrupted them again by leverage the home equity to again go into massive debt and was forced to sell the house. 

She had been counting on the sale of a business to "save everything" by raining down millions of dollars.  The sale eventually happened but instead of millions it was "only" $400,000 - yet she spent like the millions were coming.

Upon moving into the too small house, the search for a new house more appropriate for a mother in law to merge into 2 other peoples lives  began.  Ultimately, it was decided to build a house specially made (but with resale in mind) with a mother in law suite, spare bedroom and fully equipped 2nd kitchen all rolled into the rest of the normal house and construction was begun. 

This took about 2 years from beginning to end and in that time, the mother in law, who packed up everything she owned including opened bags of dog food (boxed up and shipped in an 18 wheeler with the rest of her stuff) did next to nothing to whittle down her belongings and throw out what was extra or unneeded.

Multiplle storage units were rented and paid for over these 2 years at a cost of at or more than $1,000 / month.  Even that wasn't enough motivation to week by week whittle down the belongings, donate or sell what could be sold and throw out the crap.

Day came to move into the new house and, now that there was more space, the storage units were done away with and everything in them moved into the house and the garage.  Cars were parked outside the garage because the garage was now the rental unit.

An estate sale was planned.  THings were carted over to the old house to sell.  Behind our backs, things carted over there were brought back as they just couldn't be parted with. 

A TON of stuff was sold but yet, countless boxes of crap remained.  After a few more weeks of no real dent being made in the clutter and all the promises of "i just need more time" and "you don't know how hard it is" and "you're making me throw everything out", the polite asks to please do something about the hoarding / clutter became more stern and direct orders.

A SECOND estate sale was planned.  Boxes of shit carted to old house that still hadn't sold.  Again, some things carted over there were brought back behind our back to be re-deployed into the garage, hallways, spare bedroom and living room. 

Over $12,000 worth of shit was sold at the 2nd estate sale and yet, seemingly hundreds of boxes remain.  Much of them were covered in rat poop from the storage units and had to be thrown out but still much remains.

Mind you, mother in law offered to put up $100,000 for the new house that was designed in large part for her and is living their "for free" (i.e. paying no bills, paying for no food, no rent, no property taxes, etc) but she did pony up $100k to help with the cost of the house.

Now, as the writing is on the wall that without carting all the stuff off ourselves, we will be stuck living in box after box of stulff strewn all over the house, hanging from the sealing, blocking doorways, creating a fire hazard, etc FOREVER. 

No one can stand for this.  Her reaction to the last please to fix it are to demand the $100,000 back so she can go buy a $400,000 house back where she came from as "everyone here is so mean to me".

Of course she can't afford a $400,000 house as that's all the money she has but she put an offer in last week and is demanding "HER" $100,000 back.  THe house that was built would have never been built this large without her involvement or to help accommodate her.  It would have never been built without her written commitment to pay $100,000 towards this new house to offer her some comfort and help her with her numerous health issues.

Not sure she's actually going to go through with buying a new, expensive house as she'll be bankrupt in short order.  If she doesn't go through with it, we're stuck with her shit everywhere that she refuses to get rid of or move out of the various living areas such a large 3,000 sq foot house would afford any family.

Any thoughts on how to proceed?  It's putting a ton of stress on the wife who is trying to help a mother who's life expectancy will likely be greatly reduced if she attempts to live on her own 1,000 miles away with no one there to take care of her, but how much should a person put up with?

Not to mention, if the $100,000 is taken back, it completely changes the financial dynamic of the house that was built with profit from the old paid off house and the $100,000 that was written down and committed to the down payment of the house.

HELP!!!

[brooklynmoney]

Sounds like she has a psychological issue. Would she ever consent to therapy?

[Frankies Girl]

You probably know this, and very much don't want to hear it.

You can't fix her. You can't make her change.

And most of all, your building a house to accommodate a family member with mental issues like this was a terrible decision that was doomed from the start. Hoarding is mental illness and can't be solved by forcing them to get rid of things. They will lie to everyone about how it isn't that bad, you're exaggerating, whatever it takes to hang on to their hoard. And you will always, ALWAYS be the bad guy for confronting them over this. That is because the underlying issue is in their head, not their storage units or house or boxes and boxes of stuff. 

Sell the house, move to a house you and your spouse (and any children) can live in happily. Give MIL her money back (prorate it for whatever her share would end up being as you having to sell a customized house may mean you don't make what it's worth out of it) and release her back into the wild. Get your spouse to go to counseling to deal with the feelings of enmeshment/responsibility over her parent and learn how to set good, healthy boundaries so in future, they can tell their mother "no" and stand their ground with both love and compassion - for their own self and their mother's sake. Being a doormat guarantees you'll go around and round on this insane ride that is going to make all of you miserable as long as MIL is alive.

Your MIL is a grown woman. She is wanting to leave, so let her. She sounds very ungrateful and likely is; but again, some of this is serious mental illness and no matter how much she loves her family... the mental illness will come first unless and until she deals with THAT. This is not your spouse's fault/responsibility or burden to carry for her mother. Period.

(and WHEN she moves out, make sure to give her exactly 30 days to remove her things and inform her weekly about how much time she has left to come get it all. Make sure to emphasize this house is not a free storage facility and the stuff is leaving either with her, or without her)

[SunnyDays]

So, your mother-in-law expects to be able to live in a joint house with you and your wife on her terms, namely she can live with as much clutter as she wants AND she can make you live with it too, for the rest of her life?   Regardless of how much money she put up, this is unreasonable.  Given that she's not happy and neither you or your wife are happy, I would put this house up for sale, find something suitable for you and your wife, give your mother-in-law her money back and let her make her own decisions about her living arrangements.  You cannot save her from herself.  Yes, you will feel bad and maybe guilty, but unless she wants to change, she won't.  If she is mentally competent, she has the right to run her own life.  She will probably run it into the ground but at least she won't take you with her.  When she has bankrupted herself and/or has too many health issues to live on her own, you can help her find suitable options that don't include living with you.  But until she comes to the realization that she MUST change her behaviour, nothing you do will be of any use.  Like they say, "no good deed goes unpunished."  Save yourself and your marriage.

[FrugalSaver]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts so far!

[golfreak12]

This is one of my most important motto in life.
"You can't help people that don't want to help themselves"

[Metalcat]

Contrary to what you might think, the main issue isn't your MIL, the main issue is you and your spouse.

-What does your spouse believe is reasonable?
-Are you on the same page in terms of what you both believe is reasonable?
-Where are your spouse's boundaries and limits on this issue?
-Do you have the same boundaries and limits on this issue?
-Did you draw up some kind of financial contract with your MIL regarding the role of her financial contribution? As in, does she own a portion of the house?
-If not, why not? Was it discussed? Did every party mutually agree in advance what the terms and conditions of that money was?
-Did you both just assume that because you were putting yourself out for her that she would be reasonable/grateful?
-If so...have you learned yet that that's not how it works???

We can all give you helpful advice, like "don't build houses expecting reasonableness from unreasonable, mentally ill people", but that's all meaningless unless and until you and your spouse are a fully communicating united front with shared goals, boundaries, and limitations.

Otherwise, you are pretty much guaranteed to get totally shafted in this situation as there's no way that your natural limits with someone who is not your mother are the same as that person's own child.

Meaning, even if you do manage to put out this current dumpster fire, where do you both stand on the next one? How far will your spouse feel willing to go when their mom is literally homeless, bankrupt, and has no options?

Are you going to end up moving her in again? Paying for her housing and care? Just how far are you willing to be put out to resolve the consequences of her actions? How far is your spouse willing to go for their own mother?

You must talk through these scenarios. You must know exactly how much accomodation you are both willing to make in the worst possible cases.

Engage a qualified counsellor to help you if needed. You may not need it, but children of destructive parents often do need help navigating their feelings of anger, guilt, fear, stress, family obligation, etc.
(Ask me how I know)

Above all, if you get anything from my post, please take away the message that this is just the beginning of this issue, which will get worse, which will cause conflict within your marriage if you don't actively tackle it head-on in terms of getting on the same page.

Never assume your spouse will have the same limits with their parents as you do. That's a recipe for disaster.

[Daisyedwards800]

Why don't you just rent her an apartment nearby?

[Metalcat]

Why don't you just rent her an apartment nearby?

And possibly have to deal with her being evicted over her hoarding, and/or needing to pay for in-house elderly care if/when she refuses to leave the home and loses capacity,

Also, even if that did work out, how are her expenses paid for. Does OP and his partner put her on an allowance or do they micro-manage all of her spending for her, creating a deeply paternalistic control dynamic that's guaranteed to foster hostility.

No matter what, complications and frustrations are a distinct possibility. There are no simple solutions when it comes to dealing with people like this. The only logistically simple solution is to cut them off and let them suffer, but that's neither realistic nor emotionally simple at all.

Fucked up irresponsible parents with mental health issues are a cluster fuck, no matter how you try and handle it.

The fundamental conflict underpinning this situation should not be underestimated.

[Sibley]

I'm going to agree with Malkynn that for YOU, this is fundamentally a problem with your spouse. Not the MIL. Therapy is needed, and look for someone with experience with family dysfunction - therapists who've worked with addiction may be a good choice. Only then can real progress be made towards dealing with the MIL problems.

But ultimately yes, MIL needs to move out (with her stuff), and fend for herself.

[partgypsy]

Hoarding is a serious psychological issue. It isn't solved by someone getting rid of some boxes and an estate sale.
If it was me, I would have written up in writing about the 100K for the house, and in turn not paying rent, etc to live in the house. How such a simple legal piece of paper was not written up before planning and construction of a specialty-built house is beyond me. ETA: it sounds like there WAS something written up that she agreed to. And yet she is demanding the money back? I guess you could say go pound sand.

a) see if she is wiling to go into therapy for her psychological issues and have clear boundaries of how much storage space she has in the house, and that she can keep that and no more.

b) if she is not willing to get help with her psychological issues and hoarding, then yes as others said, dissolve as best you can the agreements you made both with house and taking care of her. She has an incredibly sweet generous helpful opportunity, being able to live with family in her own suite in her later years, and so if she is unwilling to make any compromise, there is nothing you can do that this point. And yes it will be hard to see her lose all her money and drown in junk, but you can't save her. People have to save themselves. Before you completely give up it might be worth staging an intervention with all her loved ones and her, so she possibly sees the magnitude of the problem.

[Laura33]

I'm going to agree with Malkynn (surprise, I know):  your priority is ensuring that you and your wife are crystal clear and on the same page about what needs to happen.

What your story illustrates is a long, long line of failed boundaries.  You have tried many, many times to set a boundary for your MIL, and each time she has crossed it -- and gotten angry with you for trying to set it.  At which point you get angry but back off, so she gets away with it.  And something tells me that this isn't the first time; that is the kind of dynamic you tend to get with mentally ill parents and the children who are stuck growing up in that environment.  So step 1 is to get your wife some therapy, and to get some couple's therapy, to figure out together how to set and keep a boundary, and what those boundaries should be here.

Want an example of the latter?  My first thought when I read this is "why the hell is MIL's stuff all over the rest of the house?  If you built an in-law apartment for her, then all of her stuff can go in there, and if it won't fit, then it can sit outside."  Sure, like you, I'd have tried to "help" a few times with the estate sales and such; everyone wants loved ones to be happy and comfortable, particularly after the death of a spouse.  But when I realized she not only didn't appreciate my help but was actively subverting my efforts, I'd have given her a deadline, and then I'd personally have taken the day off work to move all her crap out of my space, no matter how much she bitched about it. 

But of course, that response requires your wife's full agreement and support -- in fact, she should be the one who moves the first box, because it's her mom.  But something tells me that she's not willing to draw that line with her mom (largely because you seem angry enough that I'm surprised you haven't done it already if you thought your wife would stand for it).  So, again, therapy. 

You can't fix her hoarding.  But you can manage the situation so that it doesn't overtake your own life, both literally and figuratively.

[albireo13]

You had your MIL move in with you?????
Yowzah!

[Omy]

I would let her move out and live her life the way she sees fit. Give her back the $100k (assuming you are able). Sell the new place - or stay there and rent out the in law suite if that makes sense financially.

You sound shocked that she brought everything with her. Were you unaware that she was a hoarder when this plan was put together?

[six-car-habit]

 Step # 1 - go and buy a 10'x10'  "easy-up " Tent / shade. Costs about $100.
 Step # 2 - buy Two new sets of deadbolt - keyed on both sides, locks.  Replace your current door-nobs on the garage and bedroom with the keyed deadbolts. Unhook the garage door opener if necessary [ it is simply one pin you will need to pull out, install a slide bolt in the garage door tracks, or a $2 set of plastic wedges between the wheels and the tracks].
 Step # 3 - remove all her crap from the garage and put it into the tent / covering. Start parking your cars in there.
 Step # 4 - remove all her crap from the "spare bedroom" and put it into the tent. Anything that doesn't fit goes outside the tent.
 Step # 5 - EVERY DAY - remove whatever new stuff she has piled in the hallways / common areas - out to the tent.
 Step #6 - inform her that every week you will be making a dump run , and whatever is piled Outside the tent goes to the dump. Make the dump run, not excuses.
 Pile the junk in your car/ SUV/ minivan and go. You pay the cost, probably $30 a load.  Either she can segregate the "important" stuff into the tent, or she won't. Sounds like she has no job, so time isn't an issue [ for her] .
 Step # 7 - follow the advice by partgypsy, frankies girl, laura 33 , malkynn and others.

[Kris]

Hoarding is an intractable mental condition. Almost impossible to "cure," especially in an unwilling person.

Borders, as others have said. Borders. But here's the thing: borders only work when you enforce them, consistently. Setting borders but not enforcing them is even worse than not setting a border in the first place. Because by not enforcing them, you have taught her that your borders don't mean anything. And you've also given her time to develop a whole host of tools/weapons to combat any attempts you make to set them. So you are starting not at the starting line, but actually further back.

The only cure for this is to set boundaries and enforce them. 100% of the time. No matter what. She's learned if she protests and gets angry, she'll get her way, so she's gonna ramp it up to an extreme degree. It will be uncomfortable. Awful. Exhausting. It will take much longer than it would have if you'd started enforcing your boundaries from the get-go. But you'll have to stand your ground.

And if you do, eventually, you will re-train her to realize that the weak, boundary-less people she used to interact with have disappeared. And these new, boundary-enforcing people have taken their place.

But it won't happen unless you do the work.

[dandarc]

Posting mainly to follow. Similar situation with my mom - basement and a garage full of mostly garbage.

Anyway, we currently have about 1,000 miles of physical separation, so definitely not in the same boat, but wanted to encourage OP to take this advise around setting up boundaries. Not going to be easy. Good luck finding a solution!

[kanga1622]

I don't have great advice but I empathize with you tremendously.

My FIL is a full-on hoarder but is slowly starting to go through the storage units as he realizes that money just isn't available to feed this habit. I have been VERY clear with my DH that if FIL ever needs to find a new living situation, we can work out a plan and a set contribution to help with rent if needed. We'd be happy to move him to our area and set him up in low-income apartments but he cannot live with us if we want our marriage to survive.

[ice1717]

I'm not supporting your MIL's behavior, but is calling her a mentally ill hoarder really accurate or appropriate?   

1. She abruptly became a widow 3 years ago -- MAJOR life change
2. She was living in a large-ish house at the time of this major life shake up -- Probably had stuff to fill the large house
3. She hasn't been held to reality of money and finances -- was FIL enabling her behavior, hiding realty from her?
4. She has now moved in with her child and in some ways reversed roles that all had formerly held -- Child now owns house, child now "sets boundaries". 
5. New house was recently completed and now she must face all of this change is real

Of course her behavior is BAD and boundaries need to be set, but perhaps some compassion might help?  Ever have grief, a major life shake up, and a giant task in front of you seem too overwhelming to handle?  Could getting rid of her "stuff" be confronting that her life really has changed in a major way and she is no longer an independent adult? 

I suggest setting boundaries as others have said, but also keeping in mind what she is going through.  It may allow you to find other things you can do to that are unrelated to help her through this major change.  Find her activities outside the home, a new life to anchor to, a new identity she can be proud of, etc.  Just a thought to the possible other side of the equation.   

[ReadySetMillionaire]

Rather than beat OP up for decisions that have already been made, I'd try to focus on what can actually be accomplished.

I think you have to look at this short and long term.  The short term stuff is to set initial boundaries, while the long term stuff is to help your MIL long term.

My short term fix would be to give your MIL two options. First, all her stuff has to go in her "wing" of the house and maybe the attic. Period, end of discussion. It has to be out of sight.

Second short term fix is that anything that can't fit there must be put in a storage unit.  I'd offer her an olive branch here by helping her to pay for it for a year or so.  This is enabling, but you need your sanity back first. 

Long term, it sounds like your MIL has some demons to conquer.  I'm a random dude on a message board, not a psychologist; but this reminds me of my dad's wife, whose first husband died suddenly from cancer when he was in his 30s.  Now, my dad's wife keeps EVERYTHING. Their basement flooded this year and, in clearing it out, I'm not exaggerating when I say there was more stuff in 1/2 the basement than I have in my entire house.

Perhaps pay for her storage unit and her counseling from the $100k. Sit her down and be open and honest -- you can't live like this anymore, you think she needs help, and you're willing to help as long as she helps herself.

Lastly, it's admittedly a little odd to me that you haven't included any of your SO's thoughts about this.  Talking about your own parents is never comfortable, but my wife and I have drawn our boundaries.  Whatever you decide, your SO needs to be on the same page.

[Bernard]

Before I give you my 2 cents, let me tell you a true, and quite recent story.

Long time friends of my wife, he now 63ish, she 58, lived for a long time in a condo that husband's mom owned. Mom decided to sell the condo and split the profits among her children, so all their stuff went into 2 gigantic storage units, costing 2 x $240 per month. That was years ago.

The two then moved in with the wife's ill aunt, who owned a $750K house about 45 minutes away. Wife was supposed to be the heir of her aunt. The lil' kink was that the aunt had a reverse mortgage.
Close to a year later, the aunt dies, and the bank wants the house. No money left, and the two (for reasons I don't want to get into) had zero money.

Their daughter found them a small apartment for $1,150 a month an hour away, an hour in another direction, mind you.

Being a good husband, I helped my wife help them. We filled a dumpster, and I had 23 full truck loads of stuff. Yard sales. Craigslist. Thrift store runs. Dumpster runs. We found "stuff" in the storage units that should have gone to the dumpster right away instead of going into the expensive storage units. This has cost my wife and me about 2-1/2 months of weekends and weekdays in between. A nightmare!

We had also tons of stuff at our house, to sell after the move was complete. We are now left with 45 Llardros, little figurines from Spain, the aunt spent over $10K on collecting. Haven't sold a single one, and they are more fragile than anything I've ever held in my hands.

Rant over.

Here's my advice:
Instead of a tent, spent $1K to $1,5K on a backyard shed. Put all her stuff in there, and make sure that it is stored under wet conditions. Give it some help if needed. After a few months, when the contents of the shed started to become a bio hazard, send your MIL in to sort stuff. That should solve your problem.

[DeniseNJ]

Don't sell the house, as she will just end up on your doorstep again in a few months.

Just set a date, and let her know it, then just toss everything.  You could let her know that anything not in her bedroom is being tossed.  Then toss everything.

Or you could toss a carload every few days.  She won't even notice it's missing since she can't know where everything is or even what anything is anyway.  Every few days you load your car with garage stuff and toss until it's clean.  Then when she asks about her stuff you say you have no idea where any of her junk is--neither will she. 

That's probably best. Don't say anything just toss every time she turns her back.

[sui generis]

I also have some reservation about the conclusion that she is a hoarder based on what we know.  Especially that there is no mention of her accumulating *more* stuff in the intervening years, which would be surprising.  That said, mental illness or not, she deserves to be treated with respect, as an adult that has her own agency (i.e. you should not do anything permanent with her stuff or "find her hobbies") and with very firm boundaries about which plenty of notice is given.  I think counseling is highly recommended for all parties, but obviously whether she chooses to go or not is up to her.  For your wife and you, a counselor or some sort of life coach will be invaluable in navigating next steps thoughtfully, deliberately and consistently, as well as possibly dealing with past trauma and guilt (for wife, especially).

The exact path you take will be up to you, your finances and conversations with the family, but I cannot recommend highly enough that you bravely confront all of this as promptly as possible.

I'd strongly advise against doing anything that undermines her own decision-making until and unless she is declared incapacitated and you are made her conservator.  Not only is it demeaning and it would be helpful for *you* to take the high road, but getting rid of all her stuff or various other actions suggested here may even be illegal and if it gets bad she or someone claiming elder abuse on her behalf could complain to the authorities, resulting in potential prosecution, or file a civil suit against you.

[DaMa]

I would suggest that you get a storage unit nearby that your MIL pays for.  Put a reasonable amount of shelving and plastic totes on the shelving in the garage.  Her rooms and that space in the garage is for her storage.  Anything else has to go in storage unit.  She can keep paying for storage until the money runs out.  Encourage her to make an inventory so she doesn't buy things she already has.  Maybe even hire someone to help organize and inventory.  Perhaps she doesn't realize what she has.

And get her into therapy.

My MIL wasn't a hoarder like we see on TV, but she had a LOT of stuff.  Every closet and cabinet, and the garage were packed, but she mostly knew where everything was.  It was also kept it all reasonably clean.  She almost moved to subsidized senior housing which would have been ideal, but couldn't let go of the stuff.

[Cranky]

Adults don’t “order” other people to do things.

A 3000 sq ft house is pretty big, but not exactly a mansion, so consolidating 2 households is going to take give and take on both sides.

Good luck

[mathlete]

Unfortunately, I think accepting the $100K made things messy. My overly simple suggestion is a complete divestment. Sell the house. Give MIL her money back. Buy a new house and live your life.

Another alternative is to let her stay but give her the money back anyway. I assume she's not on the deed for the property. You gotta get rid of this messy situation where money has changed hands and people have different ideas about what is owed to whom. Give her the money back. Then she's living in the home by your grace, and not because of some bizarre, ill-defined equity that she has in the place.

[partgypsy]

Unfortunately, I think accepting the $100K made things messy. My overly simple suggestion is a complete divestment. Sell the house. Give MIL her money back. Buy a new house and live your life.

Another alternative is to let her stay but give her the money back anyway. I assume she's not on the deed for the property. You gotta get rid of this messy situation where money has changed hands and people have different ideas about what is owed to whom. Give her the money back. Then she's living in the home by your grace, and not because of some bizarre, ill-defined equity that she has in the place.

Well, they wouldn't have built the house with MIL suite with 2nd kitchen, if it wasn't for their agreement and the 100K.
 It's all fine and well to say, not take the money but that was the agreement. Doesn't sound like they could afford building that house the way they did without the buy in.

[RetiredAt63]

Unfortunately, I think accepting the $100K made things messy. My overly simple suggestion is a complete divestment. Sell the house. Give MIL her money back. Buy a new house and live your life.

Another alternative is to let her stay but give her the money back anyway. I assume she's not on the deed for the property. You gotta get rid of this messy situation where money has changed hands and people have different ideas about what is owed to whom. Give her the money back. Then she's living in the home by your grace, and not because of some bizarre, ill-defined equity that she has in the place.

Well, they wouldn't have built the house with MIL suite with 2nd kitchen, if it wasn't for their agreement and the 100K.
 It's all fine and well to say, not take the money but that was the agreement. Doesn't sound like they could afford building that house the way they did without the buy in.

They were fine in their previous house without MIL.  It was only for her to move in with them that they needed the custom built house. 


If she has her own suite, it sort of sounds that things would be ok if MIL could live there and not have her stuff overflow.

I just downsized by 2/3 and it is hard work even if life is otherwise ok.  MIL lost her husband and moved, that is stressful and saps energy.  Of course she is also showing other negative behaviours.  OP and his wife have to set boundaries. And as Karen Pryor points out, if you give in to your dog or your kid or your MIL, you have just taught them how much work they need to do to get the desired result.  Yes, Don't Shoot the Dog is on my book shelf, but it is basic operant conditioning principles.

[Cassie]

What a tough situation. So sorry.

[former player]

My big worry is for OP's finances.  Can they afford to give back the $100k to MIL?  What to do depends quite a lot on this answer.  I suspect from what OP says that the $100k went on the deposit of the big house and that they are unable to borrow more at the moment.  If so, then the only answer if the money is to be paid back would be to sell the big house, possibly at a loss, and for everyone to go their separate ways.

If OP is unable to pay the money back, or perhaps unwilling or unable to sell the big house in order to pay it back, then their only option is to persuade MIL to stay, which will require grovelling and the retention of the clutter in the main part of the house until it can gently, gradually and politely dealt with.

OP and spouse should in no way take any further action on MIL's behalf: no finding alternative accommodation, no renting storage units, no nothing - because anything they do will be wrong, will be held against them and will quite likely end up costing more money.

In the longer term, I think my worry, more than the clutter, would be the $100k.  Even if MIL doesn't want it back (and, honestly, for as long as it is not paid back it will probably now be held over OP's head every time any problem arises), MIL's approach to finance sounds rather as though bankruptcy may be in her future in any case, and if so then the $100k may be regarded as a gift which could be recovered in a bankruptcy in order to pay debts.  In which case sale of the big house might be forced on OP in any case.

[mathlete]

Well, they wouldn't have built the house with MIL suite with 2nd kitchen, if it wasn't for their agreement and the 100K.
 It's all fine and well to say, not take the money but that was the agreement. Doesn't sound like they could afford building that house the way they did without the buy in.

Hmm. Yeah. I guess in that case I'd say that entering into a living situation where your shelter and security relies at least in part on an unstable person holding $100K over your head is a bad thing. In that case, I definitely think selling and returning the money is the best way to go.

It sounds like a really tough situation, and my heart goes out to OP.

[honeybbq]

This is way above MMM's paygrade here.

A very complex and psychological issue is at hand. Counseling may be necessary, as a family, and as an individual.

If you reddit, check out the hoarders board. It can be helpful.

For you, it will be about establishing boundaries and rules and they cannot be crossed or flexed in any way. You will have to decide what those boundaries are, but it sounds like your MIL will try to circumvent every last one of them. Addictions, no matter what shape or form, are super destructive to the individual and to the family. You'll have to have your priorities set (with your spouse) and be willing to follow through with the repercussions.

Mostly, good luck.

[honeybbq]

My MIL wasn't a hoarder like we see on TV, but she had a LOT of stuff.  Every closet and cabinet, and the garage were packed, but she mostly knew where everything was.  It was also kept it all reasonably clean.  She almost moved to subsidized senior housing which would have been ideal, but couldn't let go of the stuff.

Sounds like my life.

My mother is a hoarder and has a shopping addiction, but she also has OCD so all of her stuff is neat as a pin! People say, well, it's not dirty at least! Right, I guess. She has her own grocery store and mall in her basement and 5 years worth of Xmas presents but at least there's no dust. :/

[MsPeacock]

Assuming you and your wife are on the same page:

1. Pay back the $100,000 ASAP - take out another mortgage or whatever in order to do this.

2. Give your MIL a firm move out date - 60 days or whatever. Assist her with finding housing (assist - don't do it for her).

3. If she and her stuff isn't out - move the stuff to a storage unit and pay the first 30 day rent. Advise her of where it is and that she will need to take over the payments.

4. If she isn't out, pull eviction papers for her moving out. Hopefully it would not come to this.

Just throwing her stuff out or trashing it is not going to go well. It will feel like a huge violation to her and end badly probably for all of you.

If you and your wife are not on the same page - get ye' to couple's therapy ASAP and come up with a mutually agreeable course of action.

Sounds like a really terrible situation!

[FrugalSaver]

Unfortunately, I think accepting the $100K made things messy. My overly simple suggestion is a complete divestment. Sell the house. Give MIL her money back. Buy a new house and live your life.

Another alternative is to let her stay but give her the money back anyway. I assume she's not on the deed for the property. You gotta get rid of this messy situation where money has changed hands and people have different ideas about what is owed to whom. Give her the money back. Then she's living in the home by your grace, and not because of some bizarre, ill-defined equity that she has in the place.

Well, they wouldn't have built the house with MIL suite with 2nd kitchen, if it wasn't for their agreement and the 100K.
 It's all fine and well to say, not take the money but that was the agreement. Doesn't sound like they could afford building that house the way they did without the buy in.

Yep this. After hours of conversations and commitment and we’re only doing this if this is what you want we agreed to have her help design the house. The then started complaining her area was too small and our master bedroom was bigger and it wasn’t fair.

< 30 days after moving in with her shit piled to the ceiling everywhere in the house from her TWO 30x60 storage units, she announced she can’t live like this and demands her $100,000 back and she’s moving.

Ournother house was paid off. We had no reason to move other than wife’s dad died

[Zette]

What does your wife say about the situation?

[FrugalSaver]

Oh and the MIL is demanding that we pay to
Move her stuff back. That would probably cost $10,000

Nogknnahappen

[FrugalSaver]

What does your wife say about the situation?

She feels bad her dad died

She knows her mom moving will kill her. She is a very bad diabetic. We’ve saved her life numerous times. She’s in her late 60s and only getting worse. The brother will live near her but won’t do anything to help her after she moves.

At some point she will need someone to help save her and she will be 1,000 miles away. She’s knows it will happen. She knows she will feel guilty but will not be able to do anything tomchange that future

[Awesomeness]

Assuming she leaves and gets the 100k, can you rent out her portion of the house to a roommate or Airbnb it?  She may end up back there hopefully after some family therapy and better boundaries. 

What a mess, I’m so sorry you’re in the situation. Life’s too short to be lived this way, you’d think she’d understand after losing her husband. My last parent passed this summer.  He had tons of stuff that we’re still dealing w today.  It created tension with us all and now I hold the crap in my hands and think what a waste, all of that time bickering. Old people are set in their ways and do have a right to live how they want. It’s just hard when we don’t understand it and it’s so different from who we are. 

[Metalcat]

What does your wife say about the situation?

She feels bad her dad died

She knows her mom moving will kill her. She is a very bad diabetic. We’ve saved her life numerous times. She’s in her late 60s and only getting worse. The brother will live near her but won’t do anything to help her after she moves.

At some point she will need someone to help save her and she will be 1,000 miles away. She’s knows it will happen. She knows she will feel guilty but will not be able to do anything tomchange that future

I think you need to really make your wife's feelings and coping process your main priority.

She's just lost a parent and she's in a remarkably difficult emotional place with her remaining parent.

Your job is to find out what she needs from you. She thought what she needed from you was a house her mother could live in safely, but that's not working out.

You may be frustrated, but she's probably devastated and deeply emotionally conflicted.

I've spent the last year going through something extremely similar with my mother and it's been incredibly difficult. I don't even have the death of a father to contend with, and I've needed profound emotional support and patience from my partner.

Don't lose focus on what really matters here.

[SunnyDays]

You could rent your MIL a place nearby that will accommodate her stuff, then rent out her current portion of the house to someone else to cover the costs.  Then you are close should something happen and she has more control of her living situation.  Plus you get your space back.

[Peach]

That's a horrible situation that seems to have escalated to the point where nothing is going to change without third party help.  The only hope you have of MIL changing is with therapy.  It would surprise me if MIL would go to therapy by herself, but maybe she would go along with your wife.  Most likely MIL would only go if she didn't feel that everyone is ganging up on her because of the hoarding.  Maybe make her think it's more about your wife being very upset that everything is falling apart and wanting to make things right for everyone.  Maybe they can work out a temporary compromise -- MIL gets all of her stuff out of your personal space but you let her keep the entire garage to house her most treasured crap. 

Also, it may be necessary for you to speak with a lawyer about the possibility of disentangling your money.

Good luck.

[BicycleB]

What does your wife say about the situation?

She feels bad her dad died

She knows her mom moving will kill her. She is a very bad diabetic. We’ve saved her life numerous times. She’s in her late 60s and only getting worse. The brother will live near her but won’t do anything to help her after she moves.

At some point she will need someone to help save her and she will be 1,000 miles away. She’s knows it will happen. She knows she will feel guilty but will not be able to do anything tomchange that future

When my Dad the hoarder was not able to independently protect his own life, which meant that he could not manage his own affairs, my sister and I filed in court to become his guardian. Minutes before the court proceeding, he signed papers that essentially made us his guardians in the event a psychologist said he couldn't handle his own affairs. A psychologist had already said that, so (gracefully) we brought him to live near us in an assisted living facility.

Assisted living is for people whose lives need to be saved because they can't get through the day on their own consistently without endangering themselves. It costs money, but it's an option.

Obviously such a course requires a united front between you and your wife. Between you, your wife, and the brother, is it possible that in the event you sell the house and downsize to a you-and-your-wife-sized place, MIL's expenses to live in assisted living could be jointly paid? With perhaps the $100,000 used for that purpose for a while, then MIL's Social Security contributing once she reaches that age?

When we were Dad's guardians, we were able to use his assets to pay for his care, though we had to front a LOT of money to pay for the legal costs of setting things up (in other words, the cost of the guardianship proceedings). Not sure if such a procedure is preferable in this case compared to selling the house, giving her $100,000 and helping her after she's broke. Either way, your case sounds like preserving her life will cost you money - the cost of your big current home, or of getting out and giving her the $100,000 and helping her when she's broke, or a portion of the assisted living expense.

The assisted living path allows you to live in a non-hoarder dwelling and preserve MIL's life.

[FrugalSaver]

UPDATE

it appears she’s now bought a $400k house and will use the $100k for this house plus her entire life savings to pay cash for it and live off social security.

[partgypsy]

UPDATE

it appears she’s now bought a $400k house and will use the $100k for this house plus her entire life savings to pay cash for it and live off social security.

That's f- ed up.  I'm sorry.

My question, is she even legally entitled to that 100K? Legally it sounds like she would need to sue you for it, since she is in breach. Obviously I don't know if you and your wife want to let it get to that point, but obviously legally speaking your mil is in the wrong. If you wanted to, you could refuse to give her that 100K and then since she will not qualify for a mortgage for the remainder, the deal will fall through.  You just have to decide if you want to be the "bad" guy to do this and make it so she doesn't endanger herself. ESPECIALLY if she is a diabetic she WILL have future large medical expenses at some point. And to do something so foolhardy she has both a house she cannot keep up with and no money to live on, maintain said house nor pay its property taxes, etc. she is basically not in her right mind.

[sui generis]

UPDATE

it appears she’s now bought a $400k house and will use the $100k for this house plus her entire life savings to pay cash for it and live off social security.

TBH this sounds great. Except for how she bought a house with cash with "the $100k" that isn't in cash and is questionable as to whether or to what extent it even exists right now. Sounds like whoever signed a home purchase contract with her based on that might be disappointed in the end. But to the extent you guys are just returning the $100k to her, and that's how she accomplished this feat, sounds great! A chance to reset with healthy boundaries and to maintain them from the get go!

[Omy]

When she gets strapped for cash, she can get a reverse mortgage. You've dodged a bullet...for now.

[SunnyDays]

Assuming you're willing (and able) to give her back the 100K, how long can she sustain the house on SS payments?  Is she just going to end up broke and looking to you to save her down the road again?  What will you do then?

[BicycleB]

UPDATE

it appears she’s now bought a $400k house and will use the $100k for this house plus her entire life savings to pay cash for it and live off social security.

Fantastic!!!!

Assuming you get reliable legal documentation that she has abandoned all claim to your current home in exchange for the $100,000 (I assume a quitclaim deed would be needed, but please consult a knowledgeable lawyer), you emerge legally free from financial responsibility to her at the mere cost of legal advice, coming up with $100,000 in cash and at some point rationally downsizing.

Fwiw, within the limits of good relationship with wife, I suggest downsizing ASAP as part of the necessary procedure of actually removing all of MIL's stuff from your home. If she's anything like my dad, she'd move and still have your house filled with her stuff, unless you determinedly push it out.

Obviously the situation of her losing the house may occur one day. By then, if you've downsized, you'll be in position to provide some sort of logistical care that keeps her safe (perhaps assisted living via Social Security) with no or limited financial investment. Fwiw, the process of doing this kind of thing brought me closer to my sibling as well as my parent... you have my fervent hope that your family too can grow closer year by year during these difficult times, and that you can support your wife in a manner she feels good about.

In closing, my experience is that death can intervene in plans of this sort unexpectedly. For that reason, the most important thing once the immediate issues are resolved is probably to continue assisting in her health. After that, if possible, get her to complete medical and financial directives - medical power of attorney, financial power of attorney, living will, and will. You could pay the lawyer of her choice, from a short menu of lawyers who do those documents for an affordable fixed fee. Would make intervening later when needed much much easier, might end up prolonging her life. My dad would have died if we hadn't removed him from his hoarder home, because his failure to take medicine put him at death's doorstop but care staff who could have assisted him refused work in that health hazard of a house. (I mean, he died later, but we got him an extra couple years, with pleasant times as well as frustrations.) Last but not least, where possible help your wife to enjoy the time with her because...well, those days are limited. Best wishes.

PS. Sorry if any of the comments above are intrusive or not relevant, just sharing my instinctive response - with goodwill, even if not very helpful. :)

[Metalcat]

UPDATE

it appears she’s now bought a $400k house and will use the $100k for this house plus her entire life savings to pay cash for it and live off social security.

Fuck.
Well, that really just confirms that you were never dealing with a reasonable person to begin with, doesn't it.

How is your wife handling this?
She must feel so frustrated, angry, and probably worried too.
DH and I are just a step or two ahead of you in a nearly identical process. We've just finished up our property sale and are now in a small place that can never house anyone extra.

I can't even begin to describe the dread I fear about what happens next when my mom inevitably needs help again.

Feel free to PM me if you want some commiseration.
It really sucks being made the "bad guy" for bending over backwards and losing money to try and help someone.