Need advice--how to stop being Judgy McJudgerson!

[Lucky Girl]

I have been a bit judgmental of other people my whole life, but usually tend to keep it in check.  With my new foray into mustachianism, however, I am finding that I judge people all the time.  (The facepunch language on this board may not be helping me here). 

Case in point:  My sister is coming to visit for 24 hours before she heads back to London (since she lives so far away it is great to be able to see her!).  This is a favorite sister, we have kids of similar ages and much in common.  But one of the things we used to bond over was Shopping!  She wants to go on a big shopping spree while she is here.  Last time we did this she dropped thousands of dollars at the cosmetics counter at Nordstroms.  This time she wants to hit Tiffany for her step-daughter's sixteenth birthday gift.  I think this is insane on many levels. 

I already know that she thinks she will work forever (at least til 65), and she is not in debt.  I do not know what she saves every month, but am sure it is something.  I desperately want to tell her she is crazy and show her that she doesn't need to live this way, but am fairly sure she likes her high-flyer lifestyle and would not take kindly to my attempts to show her the light.

Thoughts, commiseration, techniques for dealing with the people in your life you love but drive you mental?  I am currently thinking I will just say absolutely nothing while we shop, for fear that if I open my mouth something judgy will come out of it!

[Jeddy]

I have been a bit judgmental of other people my whole life, but usually tend to keep it in check.  With my new foray into mustachianism, however, I am finding that I judge people all the time.  (The facepunch language on this board may not be helping me here). 

Case in point:  My sister is coming to visit for 24 hours before she heads back to London (since she lives so far away it is great to be able to see her!).  This is a favorite sister, we have kids of similar ages and much in common.  But one of the things we used to bond over was Shopping!  She wants to go on a big shopping spree while she is here.  Last time we did this she dropped thousands of dollars at the cosmetics counter at Nordstroms.  This time she wants to hit Tiffany for her step-daughter's sixteenth birthday gift. I think this is insane on many levels. 

I already know that she thinks she will work forever (at least til 65), and she is not in debt.  I do not know what she saves every month, but am sure it is something.  I desperately want to tell her she is crazy and show her that she doesn't need to live this way, but am fairly sure she likes her high-flyer lifestyle and would not take kindly to my attempts to show her the light.

Thoughts, commiseration, techniques for dealing with the people in your life you love but drive you mental?  I am currently thinking I will just say absolutely nothing while we shop, for fear that if I open my mouth something judgy will come out of it!

One thing I see quite a bit on this site is a general theme of "needing" to change people to their way of thinking, which I've never been able to understand - in this case, you've admitted that SHE likes to shop, SHE is not in debt, and SHE wants to buy something for her kid - after all of that, you 'want to show her the light' - why?

She's not forcing you to buy anything, she's not spending your money, she's not racking up credit card balances and asking you for a bailout - so why exactly do you feel the need to 'show her the light'? What's wrong with her light? Why would you want to ruin a friendship with your sister simply because you think she needs to follow your beliefs/lifestyle?

Maybe I'm just not 'into' the MMM lifestyle as deep as others, but I've never been able to figure out why so many people on this site feel the need to change other people - if you're saving your money and you're approaching financial independence and you're able to live a life that you enjoy, why give a damn what anyone else does?

[FIRE Artist]

I don't think you should make it about her, I would approach it by sharing your early retirement plan, and the philosophy.  She can take it or leave it, and whether or not she does is her business, and not something I would ever bring up again unless she approaches with questions. 

[Hall11235]

I'm with Jeddy on this one.

To help remove the judgey-pants, try reading the Stoic Philosophers: Marcus Aurelius, Seneca, etc. They have a lot of good things to say about accepting that there are some things you cannot change and reacting to those things with equanimity.

For your sister, since you see her so rarely, I would go shopping, but set a strict budget. For example: "Ok, sister, I'd love to go shopping with you, but money's tight right now, so I can't spend more than 75$. Help me to not go over that limit?"

To me that creates a shared bond of saving. You WON'T spend more than 75$ and when your sister sees you stop spending, maybe she'll slow down too.

[KBecks2]

There's a song for this…

Let it go… Let it gooooo!!

[MissStache]

When I was a new mustachian, I had this same reaction that I had to FIX IT for everyone.  I was so enamored and excited by it that I wanted to share it with everyone and make them see the light! 

But I learned very quickly that people don't like being preached to, regardless of how awesome the thing is. 

Enjoy your time with your sister.  Mention to her your newfound goals and budgets and maybe she'll ask you about it and learn more.  Maybe she'll roll her eyes and think your crazy.  If she isn't in trouble, then I see no reason to push the idea on her.

[Lis]

One thing I see quite a bit on this site is a general theme of "needing" to change people to their way of thinking, which I've never been able to understand - in this case, you've admitted that SHE likes to shop, SHE is not in debt, and SHE wants to buy something for her kid - after all of that, you 'want to show her the light' - why?

She's not forcing you to buy anything, she's not spending your money, she's not racking up credit card balances and asking you for a bailout - so why exactly do you feel the need to 'show her the light'? What's wrong with her light? Why would you want to ruin a friendship with your sister simply because you think she needs to follow your beliefs/lifestyle?

Maybe I'm just not 'into' the MMM lifestyle as deep as others, but I've never been able to figure out why so many people on this site feel the need to change other people - if you're saving your money and you're approaching financial independence and you're able to live a life that you enjoy, why give a damn what anyone else does?

+1 times a million!

I too can be a tad judge-y at times, and I keep it in check by asking myself - 'does this affect me?' If the answer is 'no,' or even 'probably not' I shrug it off.

Go enjoy a day shopping with your sister by mentally calculating how much she spends will be worth to you in x amount of years (meaning, if she spends $500, how much will be that be worth to you in five, 10, 20 years, or by the time you FIRE). If she asks you why you're not spending any money, you can try to be honest with her, or you can just brush it off. If she seems open to it, by all means, start telling her about mustachianism and how it's helping you. If it doesn't come up, or if she doesn't seem receptive of it, just leave it.

[Lis]

There's a song for this…

Let it go… Let it gooooo!!

...

Damn you.

[plainjane]

I have been a bit judgmental of other people my whole life, but usually tend to keep it in check.  With my new foray into mustachianism, however, I am finding that I judge people all the time.  (The facepunch language on this board may not be helping me here). 

If you became really involved in kickboxing, you wouldn't suddenly start kicking and punching people in the street.  You'd only do it in places where people were also there for the same reason.  Similarly, people here have opted in for a "facepunch" to one degree or another.  Your sister has not.

The one thing I might suggest is going to places where she could find something more unique & support a local artist, make a human connection, or find a vintage piece instead of a big store.  But that would be aligning spending with _my_ priorities.  She needs to align her spending with her priorities, just like you are starting to align yours with your own.

[gt7152b]

I have the same problem and one thing that helped me be more accepting of others was reading A Guide to the Present Moment by Noah Elkrief. I got it through bookbub as a free ebook but he has lots of helpful blog posts on his website. This is probably the closest to the section on releasing judgement of others:

http://www.liveinthemoment.org/how-to-love-someone/

I'm still not that great at it but now I see at as more my problem than others'. I've tried to help friends and family by leading them to my perfect vision but it just doesn't seem to have any impact. I've decided it's better just to build a good relationship with others and they'll see how I do things. If they're interested in the details I'll be happy to answer any questions but pushing it on them is the wrong move.

[matchewed]

Remind yourself that the only life you can actually influence and change is your own. Your locus of control only is within yourself. Reminding yourself of this aids in that acceptance that others are in the category of "cannot change" and therefore you shouldn't do all that much effort or worry or thought energy towards them. It becomes more of a live and let live sort of situation. Sure if they ask for advice or it's brought up in conversation you are more than able to share your actual thoughts (modified for politeness and company of course). Outside of that... suck it up buttercup and find alternatives to the expensive shopping spree.

Those alternatives could just be window shopping, for example my girlfriend frequently likes to just go to stores to look. She almost never buys anything. Not my style of having a good time but whatevs.

[Lucky Girl]

There's a song for this…

Let it go… Let it gooooo!!

...

Damn you.

HaHaHa!  I have a five year old daughter, so I can relate...

Thanks for the advice from all, it is what I need to hear.  Why do I care so much?  Because she's my sister.  It's easier with other people.  I still judge, but am less inclined to preach.  With her, she actually considers herself very financially savvy and we have discussed finances for many years. 

But I need to remind myself that getting up on the soap box is a very unhelpful approach.  I am an INTJ, maybe that is why it is so hard? 

Let it go...

[Hall11235]

There's a song for this…

Let it go… Let it gooooo!!

...

Damn you.

HaHaHa!  I have a five year old daughter, so I can relate...

Thanks for the advice from all, it is what I need to hear.  Why do I care so much?  Because she's my sister.  It's easier with other people.  I still judge, but am less inclined to preach.  With her, she actually considers herself very financially savvy and we have discussed finances for many years. 

But I need to remind myself that getting up on the soap box is a very unhelpful approach.  I am an INTJ, maybe that is why it is so hard? 

Let it go...

Is everyone an INTJ on this forum?! I am one as well.

[Roothy]

Is everyone an INTJ on this forum?! I am one as well.

Since people talk about this so much, I finally took a test.  No, not everyone is INTJ, apparently: I'm ENFP, though the first two are "moderate" preferences and the last two are "slight" preferences... whatever that means.

[Hall11235]

Is everyone an INTJ on this forum?! I am one as well.

Since people talk about this so much, I finally took a test.  No, not everyone is INTJ, apparently: I'm ENFP, though the first two are "moderate" preferences and the last two are "slight" preferences... whatever that means.

Sorry... we only include INTJ's here. I'm going to have to ask you to leave... ;)

I don't think the Meyers-Briggs really says that much about a person. One of my co-students back in college SWORE by it. She would only date guys of a certain MEyers-Briggs type. Funny how her relationships always ended in disaster.

[Digital Dogma]

If you two bond over shopping and you've become more frugal, why not make a big day out of checking out the flea markets, thrift stores, salvation army, yard sales, etc for hidden treasure? You might walk out of whatever place you enter with a big bag full of feel good garbage, but at least it won't cost an arm and a leg if you stay away from expensive shops or boutiques. If she lives in another country, maybe you guys can find some old americana crap to remember it by :)

[sisto]

I too have always been really judgmental. It's one of the things I really don't like about myself. I've settled down as I've gotten older, but it's still there. One thing that I learned many years ago and have more recently been able to accept is the fact that we usually dislike in others the things that we hate about ourselves. So my guess is that you are really frugal and that you suppress an urge to be spendy and therefore dislike it about your sister. I urge you to think about this the next time you feel judgmental about something or someone, it's quite an eye opening experience. For me it's been really hard at times due to the fact that I'm critical of people that have the same faults that I do. It's really hard to admit to yourself that you have faults at all sometimes.

[Yankuba]

I have been a bit judgmental of other people my whole life, but usually tend to keep it in check.  With my new foray into mustachianism, however, I am finding that I judge people all the time.  (The facepunch language on this board may not be helping me here). 

Case in point:  My sister is coming to visit for 24 hours before she heads back to London (since she lives so far away it is great to be able to see her!).  This is a favorite sister, we have kids of similar ages and much in common.  But one of the things we used to bond over was Shopping!  She wants to go on a big shopping spree while she is here.  Last time we did this she dropped thousands of dollars at the cosmetics counter at Nordstroms.  This time she wants to hit Tiffany for her step-daughter's sixteenth birthday gift. I think this is insane on many levels. 

I already know that she thinks she will work forever (at least til 65), and she is not in debt.  I do not know what she saves every month, but am sure it is something.  I desperately want to tell her she is crazy and show her that she doesn't need to live this way, but am fairly sure she likes her high-flyer lifestyle and would not take kindly to my attempts to show her the light.

Thoughts, commiseration, techniques for dealing with the people in your life you love but drive you mental?  I am currently thinking I will just say absolutely nothing while we shop, for fear that if I open my mouth something judgy will come out of it!

One thing I see quite a bit on this site is a general theme of "needing" to change people to their way of thinking, which I've never been able to understand - in this case, you've admitted that SHE likes to shop, SHE is not in debt, and SHE wants to buy something for her kid - after all of that, you 'want to show her the light' - why?

She's not forcing you to buy anything, she's not spending your money, she's not racking up credit card balances and asking you for a bailout - so why exactly do you feel the need to 'show her the light'? What's wrong with her light? Why would you want to ruin a friendship with your sister simply because you think she needs to follow your beliefs/lifestyle?

Maybe I'm just not 'into' the MMM lifestyle as deep as others, but I've never been able to figure out why so many people on this site feel the need to change other people - if you're saving your money and you're approaching financial independence and you're able to live a life that you enjoy, why give a damn what anyone else does?

+1 for Jeddy. Plenty of people think hoarding money for early retirement is a terrible idea because you can die at any point. Everyone gets their own life to live

[onehair]

I am an INFP I just took the test (packing bags to leave now lol)...Hopefully you'll either stick to a budget with your sister or do one of the other myriad great things suggested here by others.  The important thing is you spend time with her she seems a nice person other than the shopping bug....

[Kaspian]

Thoughts, commiseration, techniques for dealing with the people in your life you love but drive you mental?  I am currently thinking I will just say absolutely nothing while we shop, for fear that if I open my mouth something judgy will come out of it!

Without trying to sound arrogant, lead by example.  After several years of my Mustchianism, my best friend began to change his ways by assimilating some of my ideas to his.  I think at one point recently he had a moment of clarity where he thought to himself, "Waitaminute--this smart son-of-a-bitch buys nothings, stashes cash, and downsized the hell out of his life.  He thinks he's gonna be rich and retire early!  I want that too!!"  He's since cleaned out clutter and isn't buying anywhere near what he used to.  This makes it sounds like I think I'm better because he's adopted some of my routines, but that's wrong--dude has influenced my likes and dislikes in equal measure over the years.

...My siblings on the other hand?  God help them all except my sister.

[Josiecat]

Find the sale racks.  Buy a few things if you need them.

[wordnerd]

I try to remind myself that people have different values and make different choices. It works mostly. I never preach about MMM. Though I am hyper-aware of waste these days, I tend to keep my observations to myself.

I struggle sometimes with my parents because I think they really don't understand where their money goes, and they, at 61 and 73, desperately want to retire. But, they aren't open to feedback and insist it's because they had kids that they can't save anything (on +$150k/yr for decades), so I don't say anything.

Silently repeating the Serenity Prayer to oneself is sometimes needed. ;)

[scottish]

I listen to audio books when I'm in a situation that makes me judgmental of other people.

If I have to concentrate I have active noise cancellation headphones.

Usually if I ignore them long enough they go away.

[Bob W]

I tend to enjoy helping other people spend their money.  Especially if it is free for me.     I see your point with a loved one but there isn't much point in judging or cajoling.   

Enjoy the time with your sister judgmentally free.   Just don't fall into the same behavior pattern and it will be fine.

It's o.k.   It is really ok for people to spend their money however they like.   Enjoy the ride along.

If you want to bring it up you can always drop the "we plan on retiring in x years" deal.   She will think you are crazy of course and wonder what is wrong with you as you both had the same mother?

[sisto]

I tend to enjoy helping other people spend their money.  Especially if it is free for me.     I see your point with a loved one but there isn't much point in judging or cajoling.   

Enjoy the time with your sister judgmentally free.   Just don't fall into the same behavior pattern and it will be fine.

It's o.k.   It is really ok for people to spend their money however they like.   Enjoy the ride along.

If you want to bring it up you can always drop the "we plan on retiring in x years" deal.   She will think you are crazy of course and wonder what is wrong with you as you both had the same mother?

I agree Bob, I always enjoy helping someone find a great deal on something they are going to purchase anyway or really need. For me it's more about finding the right deal than about spending the money so I can live vicariously through someone else and get my shopping fix.