Author Topic: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work  (Read 12529 times)

oldtoyota

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My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« on: August 20, 2017, 08:35:24 PM »
We're so close to the goal, and I've been mentally dancing in the streets with happiness.

And now DH says he thinks our number is too low.

I'd set a target number based on our projected retirement expenses and set up the savings plan. He's frugal and on board with saving, and we've done so for years now. However, I'm sad because he's telling me now that he doesn't think my target number is enough. And we're nearly at the target number.

Recently, I sent him the link to the Shockingly Simple Math and explained how it works. After that, he said he'd track our expenses for the past six months to get a sense of what we spend these days. My numbers were tracked a year or more ago, so there could be changes.

I let him know I'd be asking strangers on the internet (you!) for advice on what to do. I'm sad. He knows it. He's going to track expenses so that he can come up with a target number.

What else to do?

It's crushing, really, to be at this point and hear he thinks we're not ready. I've been working on this plan for years now. I invited him to assess it years ago, and he's not said this before. Well, he did say we needed more but he didn't have numbers to back up that we'd need XX/year or whatever it is he thinks we need.

One thing I'm thinking about is getting a job--giving up the business completely--to save like hell and make this new possible number. But that will cost me time with our lovely child and time with the lovely DH.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 08:38:57 PM by oldtoyota »

pbkmaine

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2017, 08:55:40 PM »
What if you retire and he keeps working?

Zikoris

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2017, 09:13:44 PM »
What's your math based on if neither of you knows how much you're spending? I'm curious how you would determine your FIRE number without that pretty critical information. I can't really blame someone for not feeling comfortable retiring on an amount based on theoretical future spending rather than hard current numbers. I think you can't really do much but wait until he does his tracking, but that's probably for the best anyway, in case your numbers turn out to be wrong.

koshtra

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2017, 09:38:23 PM »
Oh man. And he says this right before your target date? Ai.

If he's not down with it, though, there's probably hell to pay, so I guess you just let him run his own numbers and make his own projections... and then sit down to have the talk you probably needed to have a year ago.

Really, even if your spending changed this year, you could just change it back, right? You already *know* you can live on that amount, you've done it. So this balking suggests to me that maybe he's never been convinced about this early retirement thing, and just kind of hoped it would go away. Now that it's actually close, though, and he knows that you really mean it, he's pushing back.

Or maybe his identity is really wrapped up in working, and the thought of not having that, -- or of not having "a place to go in the morning" -- is suddenly giving him the willies?

I suspect this isn't really a numbers problem, though you may work it through by talking numbers -- I think you need to interview him pretty closely about what stopping working will mean to him. I mean, ask several times in several different ways until you're sure you've got it all out of him :-)

teen persuasion

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2017, 10:15:39 PM »
You're nearly at your target.  How close to it? 

DH wants to collect 6 months of data, I'm guessing he means beginning now and going forward 6 months.  Will you hit your target before he's got his 6 months of data?  Can you look back in your records and reconstruct your past 6 months of spending?

If you are sure of your numbers, can't you let DH do his data collection to prove to him that you will be ok when you reach your target?  Maybe his data collection can be the hook to get him invested in attaining FIRE together.  Treat it as collaboration, not interference.

I always like another set of eyes to look for things I may have overlooked, especially if it's important.  My professors in college also taught us (the hard way) to make sure our projects were bulletproof - they would work not only with expected, normal conditions, but also could neatly handle weird edge conditions.  So think outside the box a bit to come up with a set of objections that DH might raise to life after FIRE, so you are ready with you answers: how you will handle X, why Y is not a problem, how you can adjust for Z if it occurs.  Listen to his concerns respectfully, and hopefully he will return the favor and listen to your explanations in like vein.

oldtoyota

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2017, 06:11:52 AM »
What's your math based on if neither of you knows how much you're spending? I'm curious how you would determine your FIRE number without that pretty critical information. I can't really blame someone for not feeling comfortable retiring on an amount based on theoretical future spending rather than hard current numbers. I think you can't really do much but wait until he does his tracking, but that's probably for the best anyway, in case your numbers turn out to be wrong.

My math is based on our spending. I tracked it all several years ago. Didn't see a need to continue tracking every month once I had the average. Our spending hasn't increased that much, and it'll decrease greatly due to no mortgage and no school tuition. Spending will decrease by 50% probably in retirement. If it makes him feel better to check it now, then that's okay with me.


oldtoyota

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2017, 06:16:23 AM »
Oh man. And he says this right before your target date? Ai.

If he's not down with it, though, there's probably hell to pay, so I guess you just let him run his own numbers and make his own projections... and then sit down to have the talk you probably needed to have a year ago.

Really, even if your spending changed this year, you could just change it back, right? You already *know* you can live on that amount, you've done it. So this balking suggests to me that maybe he's never been convinced about this early retirement thing, and just kind of hoped it would go away. Now that it's actually close, though, and he knows that you really mean it, he's pushing back.

Or maybe his identity is really wrapped up in working, and the thought of not having that, -- or of not having "a place to go in the morning" -- is suddenly giving him the willies?

I suspect this isn't really a numbers problem, though you may work it through by talking numbers -- I think you need to interview him pretty closely about what stopping working will mean to him. I mean, ask several times in several different ways until you're sure you've got it all out of him :-)

Thank you. I think you hit the nail on the head. He's said he never wants to stop working. I think he's baffled that I want to stop even though his parents constantly talk about how much they love not working.

Technically, I'll probably work in some fashion, but I don't want to have to *rely* on it.

I'm concerned he won't run the numbers. He's just not that inclined to do it, and then I'm stuck working? That doesn't seem right to me. He's not an unreasonable person, but there's a chance he doesn't realize how important this is to me. Like you said, it's time for [more] conversation.


oldtoyota

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2017, 06:19:38 AM »

I always like another set of eyes to look for things I may have overlooked, especially if it's important.  My professors in college also taught us (the hard way) to make sure our projects were bulletproof - they would work not only with expected, normal conditions, but also could neatly handle weird edge conditions.  So think outside the box a bit to come up with a set of objections that DH might raise to life after FIRE, so you are ready with you answers: how you will handle X, why Y is not a problem, how you can adjust for Z if it occurs.  Listen to his concerns respectfully, and hopefully he will return the favor and listen to your explanations in like vein.

Me, too! I've welcomed him to review the numbers before. Although I've not been comfortable providing real numbers on this forum, I've asked for eyes here on how I came to the solution. I feel good about how they came to be. As I write this, I'm thinking DH's concern might be coming back to how much we spend. We can live a fairly fat life on what I projected, and it'll keep getting better as we drop the mortgage and the school tuition.

You've got excellent advice. Thank you!

jlcnuke

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2017, 06:36:27 AM »
Have your run your numbers through Firecalc and other similar planning tools?

Does your spending include replacing roofs, HVAC systems, vehicles, and other major (yet infrequent) expenses? If you haven't been tracking spending, I'd agree with him that checking current spending vs planned for years ago spending would be very important.

Capt j-rod

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2017, 06:40:40 AM »
With out knowing what you guys do for employment, is it possible to transition out of your jobs into retirement? Just dip your toes in the shallow end at first then ease your way into the water. It's pretty overwhelming to pull the chute this hard especially early in life. Some people like the kiddie pool, some like cliff diving. I think he just needs to realize that it's finally time to activate the master plan that you have built.

Villanelle

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2017, 07:17:34 AM »
On what are you basing the projected 50% reduction of expenses in retirement?  Is that based on a specific budget/projection you've created, or just a guess?  That seems like a *huge* reduction.  I would be extremely leery if DH showed me numbers and said we could retire based on a guess we'd spend 50% less, unless there were numbers to back that up, and those numbers were things we both on board with.  And are your numbers based just on the past 6 months (or whatever you tracked), or do they include reasonable estimates for larger expenses?  Just because you didn't buy a car or a new roof in the tracking period doesn't mean you don't need to account for them.

If you don't want to provide specifics on this board, are you at least comfortable giving your age an the SWR you'd be at based on the budget you've come up with ? 

DarkandStormy

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2017, 09:15:45 AM »
Don't know all the background but just some thoughts off the top:

-What is the working situation?  Could you FIRE while he continues to work?

-You two will have to work out the math between yourselves.  We cannot help.  Only you two can agree on a SWR.

-Can you explain that you may develop a side hustle or other passion that will generate income?  FIRE doesn't necessarily mean you can't generate income.  You could find something that you love doing that generates some income (maybe it's not a cushy salary, but with your stash you don't need your old salary).

-Can you trial FIRE when you hit your FIRE target number?  Try to live off just your investments and ignore your salary.  Do it for 3 months, 6 months, a year, whatever.  It's not a perfect trial run as you may have expenses related to work or whatnot, but you could show him that your stash can fully sustain your living needs.

Zikoris

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2017, 09:47:21 AM »
What's your math based on if neither of you knows how much you're spending? I'm curious how you would determine your FIRE number without that pretty critical information. I can't really blame someone for not feeling comfortable retiring on an amount based on theoretical future spending rather than hard current numbers. I think you can't really do much but wait until he does his tracking, but that's probably for the best anyway, in case your numbers turn out to be wrong.

My math is based on our spending. I tracked it all several years ago. Didn't see a need to continue tracking every month once I had the average. Our spending hasn't increased that much, and it'll decrease greatly due to no mortgage and no school tuition. Spending will decrease by 50% probably in retirement. If it makes him feel better to check it now, then that's okay with me.

Personally, I'd be extremely leery about quitting working based on numbers that were several years outdated and an assumption of 50% less spending post retirement.

If you're worried that he won't actually do the tracking, could you just do it instead? Or does he need to do it himself to feel comfortable? That could be an easy solution.

Dragonswan

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2017, 10:57:06 AM »
Have your run your numbers through Firecalc and other similar planning tools?

Does your spending include replacing roofs, HVAC systems, vehicles, and other major (yet infrequent) expenses? If you haven't been tracking spending, I'd agree with him that checking current spending vs planned for years ago spending would be very important.

Just to add to this: What sort of things do you intend to do in retirement for enjoyment?  In your husband's mind more free time may equate to expensive hobbies or more frequent travel than what you have been doing.  This would mean that even if your stash could support you at the current level, it might not be enough to cover the fun things he envisions doing in retirement and the large one off expenses that will occur over time.

TheAnonOne

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2017, 11:13:25 AM »
So...

What ARE your numbers?

1. How much do you have saved?
2. How much do you spend per month/year?
3. What do you expect to spend per month/year in FIRE?

Seriously, it's hard to judge without these items.
If you are planning on FIRE at the low end, I get the hesitation. If you are spending $500,000 a year now, and think you can drop to $250,000 , then I agree for the most part.
Dropping from $30,000 a year to $15,000 is an entirely different world.

Catbert

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2017, 02:41:20 PM »
What withdrawal rate are you projecting?  Many people aren't comfortable with a 4% rates, especially when ER could last 50 years.  Would he be more comfortable with 3%?  or 3.5%?

As others have mentioned I'm concerned that you're planning on a 50% reduction in spending when retired.  Is this something specific you can point to like the mortgage being paid off in December?  Or a more squishy no more work clothes, eating out or hiring help for things you could do yourself?  Maybe your husband likes wearing nice clothes, eating out and avoiding maintenance work so doesn't want that to change in retirement.   

Chaplin

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2017, 09:55:59 PM »
So...

What ARE your numbers?

1. How much do you have saved?
2. How much do you spend per month/year?
3. What do you expect to spend per month/year in FIRE?

Seriously, it's hard to judge without these items.
If you are planning on FIRE at the low end, I get the hesitation. If you are spending $500,000 a year now, and think you can drop to $250,000 , then I agree for the most part.
Dropping from $30,000 a year to $15,000 is an entirely different world.

Although I think it's worth double-checking plans,  my feeling is that the OP's question is about how to handle what appears to be a sudden change of heart on the part of the spouse. The plan had been in place for a long time and concerns weren't raised until it got close. There are lots of reasons that can happen quite apart from the quality of the plan itself. @koshtra and @teen persuasion seem to be on the right track.

oldtoyota

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2017, 10:12:29 PM »
On what are you basing the projected 50% reduction of expenses in retirement?  Is that based on a specific budget/projection you've created, or just a guess?  That seems like a *huge* reduction.  I would be extremely leery if DH showed me numbers and said we could retire based on a guess we'd spend 50% less, unless there were numbers to back that up, and those numbers were things we both on board with.  And are your numbers based just on the past 6 months (or whatever you tracked), or do they include reasonable estimates for larger expenses?  Just because you didn't buy a car or a new roof in the tracking period doesn't mean you don't need to account for them.

If you don't want to provide specifics on this board, are you at least comfortable giving your age an the SWR you'd be at based on the budget you've come up with ?

The mortgage and school tuition disappears. That's 50% or more.  That number would make people on this board spit out their oatmeal as it's more than MMM spends in a year on everything.

Thanks! I accounted for cars and big expenditures and also the remaining mortgage.

oldtoyota

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2017, 10:13:51 PM »
What's your math based on if neither of you knows how much you're spending? I'm curious how you would determine your FIRE number without that pretty critical information. I can't really blame someone for not feeling comfortable retiring on an amount based on theoretical future spending rather than hard current numbers. I think you can't really do much but wait until he does his tracking, but that's probably for the best anyway, in case your numbers turn out to be wrong.

My math is based on our spending. I tracked it all several years ago. Didn't see a need to continue tracking every month once I had the average. Our spending hasn't increased that much, and it'll decrease greatly due to no mortgage and no school tuition. Spending will decrease by 50% probably in retirement. If it makes him feel better to check it now, then that's okay with me.

Personally, I'd be extremely leery about quitting working based on numbers that were several years outdated and an assumption of 50% less spending post retirement.

If you're worried that he won't actually do the tracking, could you just do it instead? Or does he need to do it himself to feel comfortable? That could be an easy solution.

Good point. I should just do it. I will. Thanks!

RobFIRE

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2017, 02:35:37 AM »
Of course this is a public forum so it's up to each poster how much information they want to provide, so while I'm about to say there's not enough information to judge, I can understand reasons why.

I think it's likely that there will be one main root cause to the husband's reluctance to FIRE. And my experience of people is, even if they're your partner of many years, you often can't accurately guess/judge what their thoughts are. So, it could be financial/technical (e.g. think 4% SWR is too aggressive, think certain expenses could be much higher, don't think the plan has enough contingency, hasn't had time to analyze spending data to his satisfaction); it could be financial due to expected cost of lifestyle change (free time leads to expensive hobbies); it could be social: general desire to do what the majority are doing to be seen to "fit in" (keep on going to work); it could be personal: own identity is significantly shaped by career/work responsibilities; it could be a hoarding/de-risking instinct: you can never be sure to have "enough" savings. Or it could be something else entirely. And one or more other reasons could be used as a cover story. The desire to analyze spending may be related to the root cause, or it may be cover to buy time to think about the real root cause, or an attempt to delay/avoid FIRE. From the information provided I don't know. I think the OP will have to have a series of general conversations about FIRE plans and real reasons for any concerns/objections to get to the root cause of the husband's reluctance.

Once you understand the root cause you can then jointly work out a plan for what to do about it: that might mean saving a bit more, having more contingency plans (side gigs etc.), or husband continuing to work if it is the purpose/identity of the work that's wanted even if the money isn't needed. Or a plan to FIRE on a trial basis so the perceived risk of a permanent decision is removed. Those are just examples, totally depends on what the root cause issue is.

Laura33

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2017, 04:00:26 PM »
It's crushing, really, to be at this point and hear he thinks we're not ready. I've been working on this plan for years now. I invited him to assess it years ago, and he's not said this before. Well, he did say we needed more but he didn't have numbers to back up that we'd need XX/year or whatever it is he thinks we need.

Pay attention to this.  He didn't pull a bait-and-switch on you:  he told you years ago that he didn't think your number was high enough -- you just brushed it off, because he didn't support it with sufficient math.  This suggests that you are speaking in spreadsheets and he is speaking in emotions, and so both of you are talking past the other.   The way through is to try to speak his language -- what is he afraid of?  What is driving his resistance?  All the spreadsheets in the world are not going to persuade him otherwise, because it's not about the math.

With This Herring

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2017, 04:36:25 PM »
What's your math based on if neither of you knows how much you're spending? I'm curious how you would determine your FIRE number without that pretty critical information. I can't really blame someone for not feeling comfortable retiring on an amount based on theoretical future spending rather than hard current numbers. I think you can't really do much but wait until he does his tracking, but that's probably for the best anyway, in case your numbers turn out to be wrong.

My math is based on our spending. I tracked it all several years ago. Didn't see a need to continue tracking every month once I had the average. Our spending hasn't increased that much, and it'll decrease greatly due to no mortgage and no school tuition. Spending will decrease by 50% probably in retirement. If it makes him feel better to check it now, then that's okay with me.

Personally, I'd be extremely leery about quitting working based on numbers that were several years outdated and an assumption of 50% less spending post retirement.

If you're worried that he won't actually do the tracking, could you just do it instead? Or does he need to do it himself to feel comfortable? That could be an easy solution.

Good point. I should just do it. I will. Thanks!

Since you tracked it several years ago, has most of your spending been non-cash?  If you go online to your credit cards, bank accounts, etc, most institutions allow you to download in CSV (easily opened with Excel) statements of multiple years' worth of transactions.  With these, you should be able to reconstruct the last 2 to 5 years of spending.  That could help a lot.

Johnez

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2017, 05:53:52 AM »
What's your math based on if neither of you knows how much you're spending? I'm curious how you would determine your FIRE number without that pretty critical information. I can't really blame someone for not feeling comfortable retiring on an amount based on theoretical future spending rather than hard current numbers. I think you can't really do much but wait until he does his tracking, but that's probably for the best anyway, in case your numbers turn out to be wrong.

My math is based on our spending. I tracked it all several years ago. Didn't see a need to continue tracking every month once I had the average. Our spending hasn't increased that much, and it'll decrease greatly due to no mortgage and no school tuition. Spending will decrease by 50% probably in retirement. If it makes him feel better to check it now, then that's okay with me.

I'm not there, and don't have all the facts, so I  can be totally off here, but presentation is everything, and it feels like ya dropped the ball here. Let well backed facts and ice cold numbers be your response. It sounds like you've been shaken by DH's questions when you should've been ready with confident answers. "We'll probably drop spending by about half," versus "Without a mortgage and tuition, we're going to save $1855 a month." The second implies you've kept a close watchful eye on money, the confidence you have in your facts will be contagious. The wishy washy language of "probably" and "nearly" isn't very convincing and would raise my red flags.

ender

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2017, 06:54:09 AM »
It's crushing, really, to be at this point and hear he thinks we're not ready. I've been working on this plan for years now. I invited him to assess it years ago, and he's not said this before. Well, he did say we needed more but he didn't have numbers to back up that we'd need XX/year or whatever it is he thinks we need.

Pay attention to this.  He didn't pull a bait-and-switch on you:  he told you years ago that he didn't think your number was high enough -- you just brushed it off, because he didn't support it with sufficient math.  This suggests that you are speaking in spreadsheets and he is speaking in emotions, and so both of you are talking past the other.   The way through is to try to speak his language -- what is he afraid of?  What is driving his resistance?  All the spreadsheets in the world are not going to persuade him otherwise, because it's not about the math.

+1

clarkfan1979

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2017, 11:18:26 AM »
If all of your spending is on credit cards or debit cards you should be able to request your last 12 months of statements for a fee. It might be $100 to $200 in fees, but it might be worth it if you are talking about FIRE in 6 months faster.

Altons Bobs

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2017, 06:01:05 PM »
Things are more expensive now compared to a few years ago, so your numbers may not be accurate anymore, maybe that's why your husband feels uncomfortable? 

And since the stock market is so high right now, are you comfortable of retiring completely and not work again if the market goes down 50%?  Maybe this is another reason your husband is not comfortable with?

fattest_foot

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2017, 06:05:15 PM »
Although I think it's worth double-checking plans,  my feeling is that the OP's question is about how to handle what appears to be a sudden change of heart on the part of the spouse. The plan had been in place for a long time and concerns weren't raised until it got close. There are lots of reasons that can happen quite apart from the quality of the plan itself. @koshtra and @teen persuasion seem to be on the right track.

I'm a bit confused as to how one essentially saves up to a target number big enough for FIRE without having their spouse apparently on board in the first place.

It's like the OP accidentally backed into saving hundreds of thousands of dollars and now tells her husband, "Hey, it's time to retire!"

MrMoneySaver

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2017, 08:04:37 PM »
Quote
Thank you. I think you hit the nail on the head. He's said he never wants to stop working. I think he's baffled that I want to stop even though his parents constantly talk about how much they love not working.

Sounds like you already have your answer. I'd say it'll soon be time for you to transition into the next phase -- full retirement, or part-time work, or whatever -- with or without him. If he wants to keep working because that's his identity, then let him. Most likely he'll see how much fun you're having and pretty soon he'll be joining you.

partgypsy

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2017, 07:30:24 AM »
I don't see the harm in letting him crunch the numbers and figure out what his comfort level is. Marriage is a collaboration and partnership, not a dictatorship.

chrisgermany

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2017, 07:46:46 AM »
I would track spending in detail and writing for 6 months myself.

And assume that work related expense like commuting cost would disappear but other cost to fill the free time would appear.

So within these 6 months I would try to live on the post retirement budget.

If it works, great. And you have something to show to DH.
If not, better know now and readjust target.

Khan

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2017, 07:30:25 PM »
Two points...
1. From Altons Bobs
Quote
And since the stock market is so high right now, are you comfortable of retiring completely and not work again if the market goes down 50%?  Maybe this is another reason your husband is not comfortable with?
This is an important point. Let's not get sidetracked in discussions about timing the market, but if he's worried about a crash evaporating the safety net, that is a good concern to have, and one that can be worked with. Retiring into a stock market rally could be emotionally too close for comfort taking into account sequence of returns risks and first year returns.

2. Or, is he not on the up and up with FIRE in general? Does he understand the math, the historical perspective, the calculators, the assumptions, etc.? If not, then you need to figure out what precisely makes him uncomfortable and work on it, whether that be going through the deep weeds of MadFientist, shockingly simple math, Bogleheads, SWR academic papers, long term returns on various asset classes(Stocks for the Long Run, William Bernstein books), embracing the suck or changing asset allocation to cover the emotional end of crashes, what have you.

Edit: Looks like OP's DH doesn't want to retire. Looks like you have an entirely different issue to deal with.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 07:59:35 PM by Khanjar »

calimom

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2017, 10:49:26 PM »
Curious about the school tuition. If, upon early retirement, it goes away altogether, does that mean the children are aging out? Absent that would you be home schooling? Sending then to the dreaded public school?

Maybe your DH just really likes his job. Or wants to ensure heath benefits (if you're in the US) Does he support a shift to you being a SAHM since it sounds like your savings are in fairly decent shape?

oldtoyota

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2017, 05:36:37 AM »
Once you understand the root cause you can then jointly work out a plan for what to do about it: that might mean saving a bit more, having more contingency plans (side gigs etc.), or husband continuing to work if it is the purpose/identity of the work that's wanted even if the money isn't needed. Or a plan to FIRE on a trial basis so the perceived risk of a permanent decision is removed. Those are just examples, totally depends on what the root cause issue is.

Thank you. This helps me see the situation from a different side. There might be something to the idea that the job provides identity. Without the job, what is his identity? This might very well be part of the intricate web of concerns and doubts around the FIRE plan.


oldtoyota

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2017, 05:38:29 AM »
It's crushing, really, to be at this point and hear he thinks we're not ready. I've been working on this plan for years now. I invited him to assess it years ago, and he's not said this before. Well, he did say we needed more but he didn't have numbers to back up that we'd need XX/year or whatever it is he thinks we need.

Pay attention to this.  He didn't pull a bait-and-switch on you:  he told you years ago that he didn't think your number was high enough -- you just brushed it off, because he didn't support it with sufficient math.  This suggests that you are speaking in spreadsheets and he is speaking in emotions, and so both of you are talking past the other.   The way through is to try to speak his language -- what is he afraid of?  What is driving his resistance?  All the spreadsheets in the world are not going to persuade him otherwise, because it's not about the math.

Right. I do not think he pulled a bait-and-switch either. Hm, that's an interesting thought about us not speaking the same language. I'll ask him about that.

oldtoyota

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2017, 05:41:46 AM »
I don't see the harm in letting him crunch the numbers and figure out what his comfort level is. Marriage is a collaboration and partnership, not a dictatorship.

I agree. My guess is it will take months before he does this, though.

oldtoyota

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Re: My Spouse Thinks My Plan Won't Work
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2017, 05:44:02 AM »
Curious about the school tuition. If, upon early retirement, it goes away altogether, does that mean the children are aging out? Absent that would you be home schooling? Sending then to the dreaded public school?

Maybe your DH just really likes his job. Or wants to ensure heath benefits (if you're in the US) Does he support a shift to you being a SAHM since it sounds like your savings are in fairly decent shape?

Yes. The one child ages out of tuition.


 

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