My son is marrying a Canadian and moving to Canada, Questions...

[BTDretire]

 I suspect he has everything taken care of, but dad wants to make sure.
What forms does he need to live there?
What forms does he need to work?
What does he need to do about health insurance?
He has a Roth in the US (VTSAX), what type of accounts are available in Canada.
What can he invest in, in Canada?
What questions did I miss?

                                     Thanks

[nereo]

Ok... since your son is getting married and is (I assume) an adult, I’m not sure why this falls to you and his father.

Your questions cannot be answered without a lot more information, and frankly the best source of information will be Immigration Canada.  They have a pretty comprehensive website (www.cic.gc.ca)

In general, your son can enter and leave the country like any other American - on a tourist Visa - for several months and at the disccression of the immigration officer.  To stay there permanently he will need another Visa.  What type depends on what he will be doing there. If he is young, educated, has assets, certain professional training and is married to a Canadian he will qualify for a work visa rather easily. Some professional fields are easier than others.

Once he has moved to Canada he can begin the process of becoming a permanent resident, which is the first step towards citizenship (should he want do go down that path) and - again - the steps involved depend on the providence and what kind of visa he has.

Health insurance depends on the province.  Despite the catch-all phrase “Canadian Health Insurance” there is no single Canadian plan - rather each province has their own  and their own rules for when non-citizens are eligible (and when citizens are not).  So check with the province.  Typically he will need to have his own private insurance until he qualifies for provincial health insurance, which can take anywhere from a few weeks to a year or more depending on his job and visa status.

FOr investing in Canada you might want to read up on the Canadian Couch Potato - there’s a wealth of information there.  While the options are a bit more limiting than in the US, in general the system is pretty similar.  You can also check out the Canada tab on the Investment Order (it has its own Sticky).  Like our Roth and regular IRAs, Canadians have RRSP and TFSP options, each of which has their own advantages and disadvantages, but both are tax-advantaged accounts.  What he should invest in depends on things like his income, investing goals etc. 

[Sibley]

Congrats on the new addition to your family (the individual your son is marrying). Enjoy the wedding, and best wishes for a long, pleasant relationship.

Agreed with nereo. This isn't your responsibility, and you don't have the skill set to effectively advise. Be supportive, be compassionate, and let your son figure out his own shit. If you're curious you can absolutely do your own research, but that needs to be to satisfy YOUR curiosity, not an attempt to hlep.

[Kris]

Agree with the above. He's an adult, getting married. I know you want to help, and that's a nice sentiment, but... the best thing he can do is be an adult and handle his own responsibilities. Which means you need to back off and let him do it himself.

[nereo]

I’ll just add that if you have the means, hiring an immigration lawyer can smooth out the bumps and help avoid going down a lot of paths that will wind up dead-ends in terms of paperwork and requirements etc. 

When I was living in Canada my close friend (also the trailing spouse) did this and it seemed to really speed things along.  I’m not sure what she spent, but I know it was a few thousand $ over a ~6 month period. 

[BTDretire]

Ok... since your son is getting married and is (I assume) an adult, I’m not sure why this falls to you and his father.

He's 25yrs old, and I'm his father, I care.



Your questions cannot be answered without a lot more information, and frankly the best source of information will be Immigration Canada.  They have a pretty comprehensive website (www.cic.gc.ca)

In general, your son can enter and leave the country like any other American - on a tourist Visa - for several months and at the disccression of the immigration officer.  To stay there permanently he will need another Visa.  What type depends on what he will be doing there. If he is young, educated, has assets, certain professional training and is married to a Canadian he will qualify for a work visa rather easily. Some professional fields are easier than others.

 He is graduating with a degree in Chemistry in May, getting married in June.

Once he has moved to Canada he can begin the process of becoming a permanent resident, which is the first step towards citizenship (should he want do go down that path) and - again - the steps involved depend on the providence and what kind of visa he has.

Health insurance depends on the province.  Despite the catch-all phrase “Canadian Health Insurance” there is no single Canadian plan - rather each province has their own  and their own rules for when non-citizens are eligible (and when citizens are not).  So check with the province.  Typically he will need to have his own private insurance until he qualifies for provincial health insurance, which can take anywhere from a few weeks to a year or more depending on his job and visa status.

Toronto area.

FOr investing in Canada you might want to read up on the Canadian Couch Potato - there’s a wealth of information there.  While the options are a bit more limiting than in the US, in general the system is pretty similar.  You can also check out the Canada tab on the Investment Order (it has its own Sticky).  Like our Roth and regular IRAs, Canadians have RRSP and TFSP options, each of which has their own advantages and disadvantages, but both are tax-advantaged accounts.  What he should invest in depends on things like his income, investing goals etc.

 Thanks for the info.

[BTDretire]

I’ll just add that if you have the means, hiring an immigration lawyer can smooth out the bumps and help avoid going down a lot of paths that will wind up dead-ends in terms of paperwork and requirements etc. 

When I was living in Canada my close friend (also the trailing spouse) did this and it seemed to really speed things along.  I’m not sure what she spent, but I know it was a few thousand $ over a ~6 month period.

That's probably some good advice about an attorney, that I will pass along.
I don't know what his long term plans are mostly because I don't think he knows his long term plans. Any we have a graduation to go to in May and a trip to Canada in June for the Wedding. :-)

[nereo]

We get that you care, and it’s admirable that you care and want to help.  But from a practical standpoint - unless you have power of attorney over your son there’s not a lot you, personally, can do.  Immigration Canada cannot discuss your son’s case with anyone else, and most of the time they won’t offer you advice nor comment on their decision-making process (it is, after all, “up to the discretion of the immigration officer”).

It sounds like your son is a good candidate for obtaining a work permit.  The easiest route for him to take is to secure a job offer from a Canadian company.  If that isn’t a possibility he’ll need to apply for a work permit as a domestic partner of his Canadian wife.  They will want to see that he has assets (i.e. will not become a burden on the government), that he is employable (degree and specialized training certificates), does not have a criminal record (they will likely require a background check conducted by a police department or security firm), does not have excessive debt (credit report), has private health insurance and is in good health (proof of insurance and vaccination records).  If his spouse already has a job in Canada which can support both of them that will also help.

If there is a question about **any** of the above I recommend consulting an immigration attorney to help smooth the inevitable bumps.  Had one friend who had a 7 year old DUI and it was hell for her to get a visa. 

Good luck
~n~

[nereo]

I’ll just add that if you have the means, hiring an immigration lawyer can smooth out the bumps and help avoid going down a lot of paths that will wind up dead-ends in terms of paperwork and requirements etc. 

When I was living in Canada my close friend (also the trailing spouse) did this and it seemed to really speed things along.  I’m not sure what she spent, but I know it was a few thousand $ over a ~6 month period.

That's probably some good advice about an attorney, that I will pass along.
I don't know what his long term plans are mostly because I don't think he knows his long term plans. Any we have a graduation to go to in May and a trip to Canada in June for the Wedding. :-)

That reminded me.  As part of the entire process of Visa-Permanent REsident - Citizen there are questions about whether he wants to remain in Canada on a permanent basis and why. THis is not a commitment, but is a required declaration.  He should make it clear that he and his family (spouse) intend to make Canada their home for the immediate and foreseeable future.

He can always travel back to the US and they can always change their minds, but Immigration Canada only wants to work with people who intend to stay.  Otherwise they’ll push you into a tourist visa (which doesn’t allow for employment).

[BTDretire]

We get that you care, and it’s admirable that you care and want to help.  But from a practical standpoint - unless you have power of attorney over your son there’s not a lot you, personally, can do.  Immigration Canada cannot discuss your son’s case with anyone else, and most of the time they won’t offer you advice nor comment on their decision-making process (it is, after all, “up to the discretion of the immigration officer”).

It sounds like your son is a good candidate for obtaining a work permit.  The easiest route for him to take is to secure a job offer from a Canadian company.  If that isn’t a possibility he’ll need to apply for a work permit as a domestic partner of his Canadian wife.  They will want to see that he has assets (i.e. will not become a burden on the government), that he is employable (degree and specialized training certificates), does not have a criminal record (they will likely require a background check conducted by a police department or security firm), does not have excessive debt (credit report), has private health insurance and is in good health (proof of insurance and vaccination records).  If his spouse already has a job in Canada which can support both of them that will also help.

If there is a question about **any** of the above I recommend consulting an immigration attorney to help smooth the inevitable bumps.  Had one friend who had a 7 year old DUI and it was hell for her to get a visa. 

Good luck
~n~

 He has a clean record and zero debt, I hope he keeps it that way.

[BTDretire]

I’ll just add that if you have the means, hiring an immigration lawyer can smooth out the bumps and help avoid going down a lot of paths that will wind up dead-ends in terms of paperwork and requirements etc. 

When I was living in Canada my close friend (also the trailing spouse) did this and it seemed to really speed things along.  I’m not sure what she spent, but I know it was a few thousand $ over a ~6 month period.

That's probably some good advice about an attorney, that I will pass along.
I don't know what his long term plans are mostly because I don't think he knows his long term plans. Any we have a graduation to go to in May and a trip to Canada in June for the Wedding. :-)

That reminded me.  As part of the entire process of Visa-Permanent REsident - Citizen there are questions about whether he wants to remain in Canada on a permanent basis and why. THis is not a commitment, but is a required declaration.  He should make it clear that he and his family (spouse) intend to make Canada their home for the immediate and foreseeable future.

He can always travel back to the US and they can always change their minds, but Immigration Canada only wants to work with people who intend to stay.  Otherwise they’ll push you into a tourist visa (which doesn’t allow for employment).

Their plan at this time is to live with her parents to save money. He seems to get on well with her family so it should go well. If it were me, I would not last long in that situation!

[NotJen]

What if you asked your son these questions?  As a talking point to start conversations with him, and perhaps to form a better relationship with him as he goes through these big life changes.  Not as a "here's how to do this", but out of genuine curiosity about the process.  That way you can learn about what he actually has covered, and maybe research some things that aren't clear.  Maybe you've already done this and this is where the questions came from.

[utaca]

FOr investing in Canada you might want to read up on the Canadian Couch Potato - there’s a wealth of information there.  While the options are a bit more limiting than in the US, in general the system is pretty similar.  You can also check out the Canada tab on the Investment Order (it has its own Sticky).  Like our Roth and regular IRAs, Canadians have RRSP and TFSP options, each of which has their own advantages and disadvantages, but both are tax-advantaged accounts.  What he should invest in depends on things like his income, investing goals etc.

And don't forget RESPs (if there's a kid in the picture).

[PDXTabs]

He has a Roth in the US (VTSAX), what type of accounts are available in Canada.

I feel like this is the one piece where you might be able to help your son understand a complicated international tax situation. Canada has an RRSP (Registered Retirement Savings Plan) which is like an IRA/401K and a TFSA (Tax-Free Savings Account) which is like a Roth IRA/401K. However, the US government does not honor the tax free nature of the TFSA while they do honor the tax free nature of the RRSP. Worse yet, they consider the TFSA a "foreign trust" which come with extra headaches. So your son will absolutely not want to invest in a TFSA as long as he keeps his US citizenship (which in general he probably should).

Also, your son needs to remember to file his US taxes or one day he may get a rude awakening.

EDITed to add: I'm not your accountant and this is not tax advice.

[AMandM]

Also, your son needs to remember to file his US taxes or one day he may get a rude awakening.

+1000
This is a little-known aspect of US tax law. US citizens have to file tax returns with the IRS, even if they live and work permanently outside the US. You get credit for foreign taxes paid, so you often don't end up having to pay the IRS as well as your home country, but not filing can subject you to severe penalties.

AFAIK the US is the only country in the world with this requirement, but I'm open to being corrected.

[PDXTabs]

AFAIK the US is the only country in the world with this requirement, but I'm open to being corrected.

I think that it used to be the US and the Philippines, but I think that the Philippines finally cleaned up their act.

Also, it isn't just citizens, permanent residents too.

[nereo]

FWIW, there actually is some logic behind the IRS filing requirements

By using the foreign tax exemption but declaring it every year a citizen abroad can accrue a large amount of wealth which can then be brought back stateside without any additional taxes

Put another way: it’s all about avoiding tax fraud and double-taxation*

*not that fraud and double taxation don’t happen elsewhere. This is just one aspect where there are standards to combat/prevent it

[BTDretire]

What if you asked your son these questions?  As a talking point to start conversations with him, and perhaps to form a better relationship with him as he goes through these big life changes.

Ya, I noticed some some seemed to think there were some bad terms between us.
There isn't, I have no need to repair our relationship. I'm asking these questions so can help him through these big life changes. He met this Canadian girl at college a few years ago, has traveled a lot with her, once told me he was going to Japan, and then called me from Bangkok! They couldn't get the flight to Japan! But did go to Japan another time. I'm not thrilled he's moving out of the country, but it his life.

 Not as a "here's how to do this", but out of genuine curiosity about the process.  That way you can learn about what he actually has covered, and maybe research some things that aren't clear.  Maybe you've already done this and this is where the questions came from.
[/quote]
 The questions come because I don't know any of the legalities. So I ask and it went in a direction with no merit.
I hope I've straighten that part out.
                                   Thanks

[9patch]

Have him look into a TN visa. This is a work visa through the nafta agreement.

[PDXTabs]

Have him look into a TN visa. This is a work visa through the nafta agreement.

Everyone I know that has done this (married a Canadian spouse) has used the spouse visa. But that does assume that the spouse has enough assets.

[raincoast]

I feel like this is the one piece where you might be able to help your son understand a complicated international tax situation. Canada has an RRSP (Registered Retirement Savings Plan) which is like an IRA/401K and a TFSA (Tax-Free Savings Account) which is like a Roth IRA/401K. However, the US government does not honor the tax free nature of the TFSA while they do honor the tax free nature of the RRSP. Worse yet, they consider the TFSA a "foreign trust" which come with extra headaches. So your son will absolutely not want to invest in a TFSA as long as he keeps his US citizenship (which in general he probably should).

Also, your son needs to remember to file his US taxes or one day he may get a rude awakening.

EDITed to add: I'm not your accountant and this is not tax advice.

Also: as far as I know, VTSAX and other Vanguard mutual funds are not available in Canada, but he can buy Vanguard funds as ETFs through a low-cost online brokerage (either US-listed or Canadian-listed). This includes funds that track the same index as VTSAX. Most brokerages will let him set up an RRSP, and some will let him hold USD in an RRSP and invest in US-listed ETFs.

He should talk to an accountant about what to do with his existing investments.

[Dogastrophe]

He should start the process to move to / live in Canada well in advance of a June wedding.  If he shows up at border and tell CBSA agent the purpose of his visit is to marry his Canadian GF and live and he doesn't have all the right paperwork there there is always a chance that the wedding will be missing a key person.

He won't be able to participate in the RRSP until he has earned income in a prior tax year (eg. he will need income in 2020 to be able to contribute to rrsp in 2021).  He will not be able to earn income until he is eligible to work.

Unfortunately we do not have VSTAX or similar available.  We can purchase Vanguard etf's through discount brokerages.

[NotJen]

What if you asked your son these questions?  As a talking point to start conversations with him, and perhaps to form a better relationship with him as he goes through these big life changes.

Ya, I noticed some some seemed to think there were some bad terms between us.
There isn't, I have no need to repair our relationship. I'm asking these questions so can help him through these big life changes. He met this Canadian girl at college a few years ago, has traveled a lot with her, once told me he was going to Japan, and then called me from Bangkok! They couldn't get the flight to Japan! But did go to Japan another time. I'm not thrilled he's moving out of the country, but it his life.

Not as a "here's how to do this", but out of genuine curiosity about the process.  That way you can learn about what he actually has covered, and maybe research some things that aren't clear.  Maybe you've already done this and this is where the questions came from.

The questions come because I don't know any of the legalities. So I ask and it went in a direction with no merit.
I hope I've straighten that part out.
                                   Thanks

That's cool.  You don't need to have a bad relationship to want to make your relationship better.

I've always loved when my parents ask curious questions about all of my weird plans.  "Teach me about this thing I know nothing about" ~ makes for some good talks and sharing.  I've never gotten the impression that they don't believe I have everything under control, and they don't try to tell me what to do.   They're pretty awesome, though.

[BTDretire]

 Thanks all, I have I have pasted all the ideas into a text file. I will go over some of the ideas with him, just to make sure he thinks he has his ducks in a row.

[julia]

My bf and I just went through this process! 8 months after he applied for permanent residence in Canada through common-law sponsorship, he got his PR. (Two days ago!!) *fireworks*
We did all the paperwork ourselves without a lawyer. It is A LOT of work but definitely doable. They'll have to fill out like 60 pages worth of forms and include a lot of supplementary evidence of their relationship.

In Canada we have an RRSP (registered retirement savings plan) and a TFSA (tax free savings account). He will be eligible for both in the year that he begins working in Canada.

[BTDretire]

 

he got his PR. (Two days ago!!) *fireworks*

Congratulations!
Thanks for the info.

[the_grillman]

This is probably the most comprehensive guide I have found on what to do with US Accounts (401k, ROTH, HSA) when returning to live in Canada.  It is written from a Canadian-Expat point of view but still contains applicable info to any US person going to Canada.

https://www.sunnet.sunlife.com/files/advisor/english/PDF/IRA_401k_to_RRSP.pdf

[Goldielocks]

A couple of comments;

1) The Permanent Resident status application can take quite a while.   He should be applying for temporary work visa of some description (spouse, TN, Temp work, etc).

2)  Need to buy essentially "traveller" health insurance, for up to 6 months or has a work visa and lived in ontario for at least 3 months with the visa status in place.   Until resident in Ontario for 3+ months, even returning expat Canadians need this.  The good news is that if you exclude US coverage and just go for "worldwide healthcoverage, excluding USA", it will be cheaper than any coverage he could buy in the USA today.

Hiring an Immigration lawyer is very easy in Toronto.   Canada is accepting a lot of new immigrants, so there are lots.

[elaine amj]

If his case is straightforward,  maybe he doesn't need to lawyer up? I filled out all the forms myself to get Canadian PR when I married DH. It was all pretty straightforward and I couldn't see any reason why I would need a lawyer.

As pointed out earlier, your son should not get open a TFSA for himself nor should he open a RESP for any potential kids. Too annoying with US taxes. And yes, file those US taxes - he would have to be making megabucks to have actually pay any US taxes so it's not a big deal (although annoying).

Sent from my VCE-AL00 using Tapatalk

[Goldielocks]

If his case is straightforward,  maybe he doesn't need to lawyer up? I filled out all the forms myself to get Canadian PR when I married DH. It was all pretty straightforward and I couldn't see any reason why I would need a lawyer.

As pointed out earlier, your son should not get open a TFSA for himself nor should he open a RESP for any potential kids. Too annoying with US taxes. And yes, file those US taxes - he would have to be making megabucks to have actually pay any US taxes so it's not a big deal (although annoying).

Sent from my VCE-AL00 using Tapatalk

Yep, I have helped a couple of others with their PR paperwork / visa applications.  It is not simple, but do-able for people with a MMM mindset, however I found some of the overlapping requirements / situations a bit confusing without research (which visa, can you apply for temp. work permit, etc).   I think some of the lawyers that do these don't charge much, because it IS fairly simple, but it is knowing which form to use and what does that question mean, anyway?

[BTDretire]

Just a follow up, the engagement did not survive the Covid separation.
He had a few rough days, but seems to be doing fine now.
 It's sad, yet, even though I suported him in his choice, I'm happy that my son is not moving out of the country.
                                                  Thanks all.

[nereo]

This has been a really tough time. I’m sorry It didn’t work out for your son.

[BTDretire]

This has been a really tough time. I’m sorry It didn’t work out for your son.

Might be in for a few more rough days, Fed Ex, just delivered a package to him with the engagement ring.

[Blatant]

Bad news. If I could move to Canada, I’d go today.

[Roadrunner53]

BTDretire,

It was interesting to read about the process of moving to Canada and was totally surprised on your son's outcome of the relationship falling apart. That is really so sad. But, sometimes these things happen and in the end, all works out. I do think you are a good parent for trying to find out all the ins and outs and best interests for your son. We all need guidance doing something new that is out of our element. At 25 your son can still use a parents advice. I am a full grown retired adult and I still need advice! Keep up the good work!

[AMandM]

+1 to what RoadRunner said.

[nereo]

This has been a really tough time. I’m sorry It didn’t work out for your son.

Might be in for a few more rough days, Fed Ex, just delivered a package to him with the engagement ring.

ouch, that’s rough.  And I”m speaking from experience...