Author Topic: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..  (Read 7387 times)

Bearblastbeats

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My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« on: March 15, 2018, 12:49:22 PM »
Ok, well not entirely.

I came upon this article today, and many others like it before, where you cannot make a living as a musician. It's the sad truth and yet people like myself embark on this journey knowing fare well of its adversaries.

http://www.metalinjection.net/its-just-business/peripherys-misha-mansoor-says-he-cant-making-living-from-just-the-band

Luckily, I was able to become a full time engineer which pays for my musical GAS, Gear Acquisition Syndrome, and making money on the side with music.

I know artists like Ian MacKaye and Henry Rollins have undoubtedly preached the DIY / PMA lifestyle for the last three decades. However, I wonder how many of my fellow brothers of the sonic cloth have pursued the frugal/mustachian way of life.

Decent gear is expensive, driving to shows gets expensive, paying lights/sound crew/merch hands gets expensive. Unless you're Fleetwood Mac making a $1mill guarantee, who also ride in their own individual tour bus', You need a real job.

But hey, it's all rock n' roll to me.


mak1277

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2018, 02:24:06 PM »
I thought people became musicians to get girls???

jlcnuke

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2018, 02:34:59 PM »
This sums up my feelings on "chasing your dreams" for most people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-JgG0ECp2U

Sure, the long-shots work out every once in a while for someone, but the odds are "you" (the generic you) won't be the one that happens to. As such, I think anyone chasing long-shot dream should take careful stock of how much luck is needed and exactly how they measure up against all the other similar dreamers out there before abandoning everything to chase that dream. That doesn't mean "don't chase your dreams", just "be realistic about the chance of your dream coming to be".

englishteacheralex

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2018, 02:42:30 PM »
Oh this is a fascinating discussion. I have no idea why I've spent time thinking about this other than the fact that I like music a lot, but...

Ok, when it comes to being a musician, my theory has always been that it could be something that paid your bills and allowed for at least a middle class lifestyle, but you would have to be geared towards making it pay, not towards becoming famous and wildly successful (which is a winning lottery ticket situation).

So--be in a really good cover band with members who all could play multiple instruments (giant bands=having to split the pay too many ways) and have a very efficient setup/tear down routine; play a lot of gigs and really try to specialize in weddings. Also give private lessons and market yourself well. Have a good website. Be conscientious about returning calls. Have an enormous repertoire and be able to learn a song in three seconds.

Am I wrong? Seems like a person who was a. a very good musician b. very professional and shit-together having and c. works well with others and is not unreasonable with bandmates could probably do okay, right?

I took lessons from a really stellar guitar teacher who was firing on all of these cylinders and he seemed to be doing just fine.

LifeHappens

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2018, 02:46:54 PM »
Oh this is a fascinating discussion. I have no idea why I've spent time thinking about this other than the fact that I like music a lot, but...

Ok, when it comes to being a musician, my theory has always been that it could be something that paid your bills and allowed for at least a middle class lifestyle, but you would have to be geared towards making it pay, not towards becoming famous and wildly successful (which is a winning lottery ticket situation).

So--be in a really good cover band with members who all could play multiple instruments (giant bands=having to split the pay too many ways) and have a very efficient setup/tear down routine; play a lot of gigs and really try to specialize in weddings. Also give private lessons and market yourself well. Have a good website. Be conscientious about returning calls. Have an enormous repertoire and be able to learn a song in three seconds.

Am I wrong? Seems like a person who was a. a very good musician b. very professional and shit-together having and c. works well with others and is not unreasonable with bandmates could probably do okay, right?

I took lessons from a really stellar guitar teacher who was firing on all of these cylinders and he seemed to be doing just fine.
These are all good points. The full time gigging musicians I know tend to be solo acts. They rely on the new, smaller PA systems to stay portable. Some use electronics like vocalizers, loopers and midi. They play a LOT of gigs - up to 8 per week - for not a ton of money but it adds up. If you average $200 per gig and play 7 times per week you do okay. Just don't get hurt, sick or take a vacation!

I'll also add, know what music works in your market. Cater to that. Don't try to be too different.

GuitarStv

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2018, 02:47:22 PM »
Music is a lot like sports.  It's fun, there are a ton of people who like to play for free (or are even willing to pay to play), and unless you're exceptionally lucky/gifted it's hard to make it your primary source of income.  :P

one piece at a time

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2018, 02:48:35 PM »
Play in a pit for musical theater, play corporate gigs, do art as a side project. Simple.

Imma

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2018, 03:26:26 PM »
I'm not a musician, but my partner is. This is not a trade you choose because you want to get rich. Buying a lottery ticket is a much easier way to get rich. It can be a rewarding career if you're not the cucible type, if you want to gain a wide variety of business skills and you're totally ok with living a modest life. When we first got together, he was very clear that music is not a temporary thing for him, it's his purpose in life. It's always going to be a big part of his life, and since we're together, it's a part of my life as well.

I have always wanted to live a frugal and simple life, so our needs matched exactly. We both strive to keep our expenses low, we live in an extremely cheap house, and when he's away playing music I'm baking bread, sewing our clothes and gardening. It works for both of us. It's not for everyone, it's a choice you need to make together. There are all kinds of stereotypes about musicians and while I'm not denying that things like drug and alcohol use are definitely more visible as they are in the corporate world, every musician I know is extremely hard working. Most of them juggle several sources of income. There are a lot of transferable skills you can gain, like marketing, customer service, business administration and project management. It's not difficult for most people to find side hustles and through these side hustles you can make a lot of money, if you have the luck and the skill, and this can in return fund the recording of new music and pay your bills while you're touring.

There's only one condition I've always set and that is that music should be self-sustainable. I will never take out a second mortgage on our home like the guy from Anvil did.  A long-term music career is certainly not for everyone. You need to make choices and not everyone is going to be happy with them. But if my kid was 18 and in a band, I would definitely encourage him/her to get in a van and drive from squat to squat for a year and play for beer money. It's very valuable life experience even if you don't decide to do it for the rest of your life.

Bearblastbeats

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2018, 06:11:47 AM »
I thought people became musicians to get girls???

That is correct.

Bearblastbeats

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2018, 06:19:32 AM »
Oh this is a fascinating discussion. I have no idea why I've spent time thinking about this other than the fact that I like music a lot, but...

Ok, when it comes to being a musician, my theory has always been that it could be something that paid your bills and allowed for at least a middle class lifestyle, but you would have to be geared towards making it pay, not towards becoming famous and wildly successful (which is a winning lottery ticket situation).

So--be in a really good cover band with members who all could play multiple instruments (giant bands=having to split the pay too many ways) and have a very efficient setup/tear down routine; play a lot of gigs and really try to specialize in weddings. Also give private lessons and market yourself well. Have a good website. Be conscientious about returning calls. Have an enormous repertoire and be able to learn a song in three seconds.

Am I wrong? Seems like a person who was a. a very good musician b. very professional and shit-together having and c. works well with others and is not unreasonable with bandmates could probably do okay, right?

I took lessons from a really stellar guitar teacher who was firing on all of these cylinders and he seemed to be doing just fine.

Yea, the realistic everyday musician is in your cover bands and wedding gigs. One of my buddies is a drum instructor by day and then plays packed venues for his cover band every weekend. I also do the cover band thing and make 100-200 a show for myself. I also do the original music as its my 'creative outlet'.

But yes you are right, having your stuff together and being a good hang around will get you more gigs even if you are not a stellar player over the guy who has all the chops but all the ego to go along with it.

For instance, just last night at my cover band practice, our guitar player mentioned that he quit his contractor job to go play music full time. Hes not the best guitar player but he does a solo acoustic act in which he makes 200+ when he plays to bars full of people. He's a good entertainer, hes fun, he plays his parts and shows up on time. He has a gig nearly every week and all he has to do is play his acoustic, sing a few tom petty or dylan songs and keep the girls dancing. Not a bad gig considering he has no wife or kids or any debt.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 06:24:42 AM by Bearblastbeats »

Kl285528

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2018, 07:11:12 AM »
I keep thinking that my musical career will go much better once I am FIRE - then, the pressure to make a ton is off. Famous musician - ah, that's the hard part. Working musician who supports himself, doable but likely won't make a ton. One guy in my cover band is a full time musician, and plays various solo gigs, plays in several cover bands, and leads a contemporary church service band weekly. Tough hours for a family man, but works for him.
I am approaching FIRE, and definitely have delusions of greatness. Nothing like playing out for crowds of enthusiastic people getting their drink on. Planning to do more of it as I'm financially secure.
There are a ton of articles out there written on how to make a living as a musician, but very few can tell one how to become bigtime famous.

Jules13

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2018, 07:49:36 AM »
I live in Nashville and know quite a few successful musicians (some are in pretty popular bands, other do all sorts of studio work and movie soundtracks) and all of their spouses also work either full or part-time and some have side gigs themselves.  None of them are rolling in money.  Not even close.  But, they are doing what they love and that's worth more than money.

loyalreader

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2018, 10:04:10 AM »
I used to be a professional musician in my 20s (the 90s). Two albums on a major, multiple on indies, radio, tv, tours, etc.

For me it is much more satisfying to have a good salary and write/record/play for the love of the art, rather than rely on it as my main source of income.

We are in interesting times for musicians now. A lot has changed in the last 30 years. Recording is so much cheaper, and it can be easier to tap into the slice of listeners who may be interested in the genre of music you create. However, it seems to me artists are expected to give more and more away for free and live performance is valued less and less. 




Tabaxus

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2018, 11:40:40 AM »
I sacrificed basically everything in middle/high school to pursue my dream of being a professional musician.  Didn't do sports very much (flirted with football, ended up dropping out of it, thank god), didn't do the kind of AP classes I otherwise would've done in high school, got a reputation for being a music nerd that spent all day in a practice room so didn't have a great social life, etc.  Went on to get a music degree.

I'm a lawyer now.

Music is a great thing.  I wish I had kept playing instead of abandoning it completely.  I might try picking it up again someday--probably on a different instrument (I did try picking it back up once a couple of years ago, and I found that having been so good at it for so long, and having turned it into my profession, my primary instrument is no longer something I got any joy from doing, so I ended up dropping it--plus, my primary instrument is not really a solo instrument, and I don't have a schedule that accommodates rehearsals very well).  Music education will be required for my kid.  But I won't let my kid pursue it professionally (or, to be more precise, I will highly discourage that and I won't pick up the tab for it if that's the route the kid decides to go down).

FINate

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2018, 11:51:59 AM »
This sums up my feelings on "chasing your dreams" for most people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-JgG0ECp2U

Sure, the long-shots work out every once in a while for someone, but the odds are "you" (the generic you) won't be the one that happens to. As such, I think anyone chasing long-shot dream should take careful stock of how much luck is needed and exactly how they measure up against all the other similar dreamers out there before abandoning everything to chase that dream. That doesn't mean "don't chase your dreams", just "be realistic about the chance of your dream coming to be".

LOL. Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVEuPmVAb8o

Quote
Just because you’re passionate about something doesn’t mean you won’t suck at it.

Holyoak

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2018, 12:00:03 PM »
I'm hearing "Deacon Blues", as I read the replies...

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2018, 12:34:25 PM »
I'm newly friends with a person who is "making it" now, in their late 50s or early 60s. Total focus since childhood, then meeting a good musical match at a workshop a few years ago, then networking strategically, and together they're suddenly booking important international gigs in their genre :)    Person is very happy about this, of course.

That noted, I'm a huge fan of letting dreams be over, lol. I love this acceptance phase of my life, and am newly in school to be able to do bookkeeping in my old age (for fun, for interest, and to help nonprofits I care about). I had a (nonmusical) heyday and it was pretty cool, and I'm glad I can also accept that that was probably it!

gaja

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2018, 12:55:32 PM »
A close relative is a professional musician, making decent money. He does do high quality, artisty stuff, but that doesn't make any money. The real income comes from plain entertainment; playing songs and telling jokes at rich peoples' birthday parties, company lunches, or playing weddings. A relative of my husband could have worked full time if he wanted to. He plays backup guitar, and is able to adapt to a wide range of styles. So whenever a band, or singer, needs and extra guitar, they call him. But he doesn't want to do as much travelling as that line of work would demand.

Similar for both of them: they are treat music as a job, not as art.


mozar

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2018, 08:04:24 PM »
I found the article complainey-pants. And he didn't say you can't make money from music, he said he can't make a living solely from a band. He even acknowledges that he could make more money but he doesn't because he wants his shows to be fancy. This guy is ridiculous. Has it ever been true that every musician can make a full time living from one band, or that every musician becomes rich and famous? Gimme me a break!
But if you're put off that easily, its not for you.

SC93

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2018, 10:28:18 PM »
I played alto and bari sax from 5th grade on.... I was really in to it, learned to play the organ and wanted to be a band teacher..... then one day I woke up and it just didn't feel good to me any more. So I quit playing everything. When we go over to my sister-in-laws I'll sit down and play a quick song on the piano but the desire was gone.

My nephew plays the clarinet and his wife plays the viola. They fly all over playing in different orchestras and getting paid. I don't know what their long-term plan is but they just had a baby yet they flew to Tennessee to play the other day. They have no debt, thanks to my teachings, yet they are making a pretty good living by what I see.

On the other hand, my uncle always played guitar at local bars and was paid by how many people showed up and paid a cover charge.

Hula Hoop

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2018, 05:12:41 AM »
My sister is a working classically trained musician.  She also does other kinds of music sometimes.  She was pretty focused on music all through high school and has always had an amazing talent (perfect pitch for one thing).  When she was 18 she decided not to major in music at university because it wasn't "practical" but then ended up doing a graduate degree at the Conservatory.  For a few years after that she played various gigs and entered various competitions with varying degrees of success but continued to live at home with our mother and work in a non music job to make ends meet.  Her big break was when she was hired full time for a well known classical music group in our home city.  Now she makes a living but it would be pretty bare bones (our city is HCOL) without her husband's income.  But various other members of her organization make it work without outside support.  She also does a lot of other classical music gigs -often travelling to perform in various venues.  They pay reasonably well and usually pay for airfare and accommodation as well.  She has two small children though so it's not easy but she LOVES it so is determined to continue.

COEE

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2018, 07:13:21 AM »
I loved music.

After pursuing audio engineering for a few years I realized the world of recording was changing quickly.  I also quickly learned that $12/hour at a recording studio wasn't going to feed my family.  That's when I started working on an EE degree.

I now love electronics.  Not surprisingly the GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome (love that! BTW)) is kept largely at bay with nice gear at work.  Nice older gear can also be acquired for hobby stuff.  Now I make decent money, work buys excellent gear, I have excellent health benefits, company match, nice house, decent cars, not worried about much, etc.  Well worth giving up music IMHO.

Today we have my DD in piano lessons.  At 7 she is quite good.  She's gotten to the point where I'm interested in strumming along to the songs she's playing.  Playing together as a family is lots of fun and my love for music is returning.

undercover

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2018, 08:12:10 AM »
But if you're put off that easily, its not for you.

Exactly. In a world full of millions of talented people with excellent music that you've never heard of, the only differentiating factor is the amount of work those people put in to gain exposure. That's why I know it's not for me. As a band, you're just not going to make it if you're not putting in the work and giving up a bunch of stuff in the process. But if you'd rather end up homeless than give up doing what you love then it makes sense.

Hula Hoop

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2018, 08:24:17 AM »
But if you're put off that easily, its not for you.

Exactly. In a world full of millions of talented people with excellent music that you've never heard of, the only differentiating factor is the amount of work those people put in to gain exposure. That's why I know it's not for me. As a band, you're just not going to make it if you're not putting in the work and giving up a bunch of stuff in the process. But if you'd rather end up homeless than give up doing what you love then it makes sense.

I don't know if it's that black and white.  As I mentioned above, my sister is a working classical musician and I think she would have drawn the line at homelessness - especially now that she has kids.  She's talked about becoming a speech therapist if her music career ever fizzles.  Of course, she would be sad to give up music as it is her passion - but she's not crazy.  Many of her friends from the Conservatory have ended up getting normal jobs.  She freely admits that a lot of her success was luck as well as talent and tenacity.

One thing about my sister though is that she has always loved music and been very musical.  For example, as kids we both did piano lessons.  I didn't hate it and became a pretty good pianist but my mother always had to nag me to practice.  My sister on the other hand never had to be reminded to practice as she spent all her free time playing around on the piano, composing new songs, inventing things, playing around with harmonies and chords etc - even at the age off 8 or 9.  In fact, she skipped her homework a lot in junior high and high school and spent her time playing around on the piano or the instrument she now plays professionally.

Polaria

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2018, 09:11:06 AM »
Oh there are bigger complainypants out there: http://www.metalstorm.net/events/news_comments.php?news_id=33311&page=&message_id=

I am playing bass myself, I have been in various bands, mostly metal; they never went beyond a couple of gigs.  It was never my goal or hope it would get big, for me it has always been a hobby.

The hopeful have to understand that making music is by default a money sink and not a money stream.

wxdevil

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2018, 10:08:54 AM »
Just yesterday, I was looking up what happened to a band I used to like 5-10 years ago called Dredg. They are still a band, but now the members all have real corporate jobs with LinkedIn profiles. Unless you are consistently selling out large venues while touring or able to receive commercial royalties for your music, you're probably not going to make much of anything.

johndoe

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2018, 10:10:11 AM »
So the pioneers of a subgenre to a genre that the general public hates aren't rich?!  Shocking!  :)  It's cool that Bulb has gotten so "big", I remember hearing his stuff on message boards ...15 years ago? ish...

Another similar band, Ne Obliviscaris, talks about this on their Facebook, etc. (http://www.metalsucks.net/2016/03/04/ne-obliviscaris-launch-patreon-campaign-keep-touring/)

and in honor of OP's name... https://youtu.be/rhxWIkiecOA

Polaria

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2018, 10:40:38 AM »
and in honor of OP's name... https://youtu.be/rhxWIkiecOA

And where you're not supposed to hear them!  https://youtu.be/6uY6MNuMdUU

Polaria

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2018, 11:27:50 AM »
Another similar band, Ne Obliviscaris, talks about this on their Facebook, etc. (http://www.metalsucks.net/2016/03/04/ne-obliviscaris-launch-patreon-campaign-keep-touring/)

I think this is the way forward for niche bands such as them. At least they didn't insult their small fanbase as Crematory did.

Mezzie

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2018, 01:24:43 PM »
I know quite a few successful professional musicians (and other artists). They work hard, but they're living the dream. I had neither the guts nor the talent to go that route, but music is a beloved hobby of mine. I've even gotten paid a few times!

Bearblastbeats

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2018, 09:00:59 AM »
Oh there are bigger complainypants out there: http://www.metalstorm.net/events/news_comments.php?news_id=33311&page=&message_id=

I am playing bass myself, I have been in various bands, mostly metal; they never went beyond a couple of gigs.  It was never my goal or hope it would get big, for me it has always been a hobby.

The hopeful have to understand that making music is by default a money sink and not a money stream.

Yea that's pretty bad. Wintersun got some heat for wanting to raise something like $100k to build a studio to record Time II.

GuitarBrian

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2018, 09:44:17 PM »
I was a professional musician the last 14 years. My goal was 10 shows a week for $200 each. I never made it big and famous, never worried about that either, just worked at putting on the best show I could. 6 months touring and ~4 months working on setting shows for the tour. We played for many different types of venues over the years. I found a niche and it worked for us. Traveling in an RV and never going home or paying to park... Kept expenses low and savings high.

swampwiz

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2018, 04:23:17 AM »
I thought people became musicians to get girls???

When we get to the robot economy and Guaranteed Income, genetic success (which is really what sexually excites women) will be flushed out by talents & fame that are not rooted in business/financial success.

swampwiz

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2018, 04:35:35 AM »
Oh this is a fascinating discussion. I have no idea why I've spent time thinking about this other than the fact that I like music a lot, but...

Ok, when it comes to being a musician, my theory has always been that it could be something that paid your bills and allowed for at least a middle class lifestyle, but you would have to be geared towards making it pay, not towards becoming famous and wildly successful (which is a winning lottery ticket situation).

So--be in a really good cover band with members who all could play multiple instruments (giant bands=having to split the pay too many ways) and have a very efficient setup/tear down routine; play a lot of gigs and really try to specialize in weddings. Also give private lessons and market yourself well. Have a good website. Be conscientious about returning calls. Have an enormous repertoire and be able to learn a song in three seconds.

Am I wrong? Seems like a person who was a. a very good musician b. very professional and shit-together having and c. works well with others and is not unreasonable with bandmates could probably do okay, right?

I took lessons from a really stellar guitar teacher who was firing on all of these cylinders and he seemed to be doing just fine.
These are all good points. The full time gigging musicians I know tend to be solo acts. They rely on the new, smaller PA systems to stay portable. Some use electronics like vocalizers, loopers and midi. They play a LOT of gigs - up to 8 per week - for not a ton of money but it adds up. If you average $200 per gig and play 7 times per week you do okay. Just don't get hurt, sick or take a vacation!

I'll also add, know what music works in your market. Cater to that. Don't try to be too different.

I have a funny story about this.  I was a musician at my high school, and one of the band directors was always saying how poor he was.  So a few years after graduation (early '90s), I'm walking around the New Orleans French Quarter and decide to sit down and have drink in one the cafes.  There is a some cheesy synthesized music playing (with repetitive drum tracks, etc.) and a trombone that sounded really good for a synthesizer.  So I take a look, and there is that band director playing his trombone along with the music!  It turns out that not long after I graduated, he quit and got some job that put him on the road during the workweek (but paid well), and he got sick of that job and realized that music is the one job that he really loved, so he looked around and figured he could be a "1 man band" playing along with what is arguably the most physically expressive instrument there is.  I think he said he charged $120 for a 4-hour set, which is something that small cafe could afford to bring in tourists walking around.  Since then, I'd see him from time to time playing in various bar or wedding bands (and the occasional Mardi Gras float), and the last job I had heard he had was cutting grass, and he said that he couldn't believe how much money could be made doing that.  Unfortunately, he recently passed away from a cancer whose symptoms he didn't follow up on.

swampwiz

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2018, 04:38:38 AM »
Oh this is a fascinating discussion. I have no idea why I've spent time thinking about this other than the fact that I like music a lot, but...

Ok, when it comes to being a musician, my theory has always been that it could be something that paid your bills and allowed for at least a middle class lifestyle, but you would have to be geared towards making it pay, not towards becoming famous and wildly successful (which is a winning lottery ticket situation).

So--be in a really good cover band with members who all could play multiple instruments (giant bands=having to split the pay too many ways) and have a very efficient setup/tear down routine; play a lot of gigs and really try to specialize in weddings. Also give private lessons and market yourself well. Have a good website. Be conscientious about returning calls. Have an enormous repertoire and be able to learn a song in three seconds.

Am I wrong? Seems like a person who was a. a very good musician b. very professional and shit-together having and c. works well with others and is not unreasonable with bandmates could probably do okay, right?

I took lessons from a really stellar guitar teacher who was firing on all of these cylinders and he seemed to be doing just fine.

Yea, the realistic everyday musician is in your cover bands and wedding gigs. One of my buddies is a drum instructor by day and then plays packed venues for his cover band every weekend. I also do the cover band thing and make 100-200 a show for myself. I also do the original music as its my 'creative outlet'.

But yes you are right, having your stuff together and being a good hang around will get you more gigs even if you are not a stellar player over the guy who has all the chops but all the ego to go along with it.

For instance, just last night at my cover band practice, our guitar player mentioned that he quit his contractor job to go play music full time. Hes not the best guitar player but he does a solo acoustic act in which he makes 200+ when he plays to bars full of people. He's a good entertainer, hes fun, he plays his parts and shows up on time. He has a gig nearly every week and all he has to do is play his acoustic, sing a few tom petty or dylan songs and keep the girls dancing. Not a bad gig considering he has no wife or kids or any debt.

If he had a wife & kids, he wouldn't be able to afford his job.

Imma

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2018, 07:50:03 AM »
I thought people became musicians to get girls???

When we get to the robot economy and Guaranteed Income, genetic success (which is really what sexually excites women) will be flushed out by talents & fame that are not rooted in business/financial success.

This is absolutely true. And don't forget that machines will be able to take over many jobs in the future, but they won't be able to make art. Manufacturing jobs disappeared first, but professional field that traditionally guaranteed steady, well-paid jobs like accounting and law will be next to disappear.

GuitarStv

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2018, 08:06:46 AM »
I thought people became musicians to get girls???

When we get to the robot economy and Guaranteed Income, genetic success (which is really what sexually excites women) will be flushed out by talents & fame that are not rooted in business/financial success.

This is absolutely true. And don't forget that machines will be able to take over many jobs in the future, but they won't be able to make art. Manufacturing jobs disappeared first, but professional field that traditionally guaranteed steady, well-paid jobs like accounting and law will be next to disappear.

You seem to be of the opinion that computers won't be able to make art.  There's some pretty exciting research going on in the field of computer generated music related to neural nets and AI that makes me believe that human generated music will not be in very high demand in the next 50 - 100 years either.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2018, 08:41:38 AM »
This is absolutely true. And don't forget that machines will be able to take over many jobs in the future, but they won't be able to make art. Manufacturing jobs disappeared first, but professional field that traditionally guaranteed steady, well-paid jobs like accounting and law will be next to disappear.

I've been watching Last Man on Earth (Netflix). They have almost everything at their disposal -walk into any store, take. No job they need to do.

First character was driving me nuts with his activities (consume, destroy) and I thought, "Man, if that were me, I'd be making friends with animals, growing fresh food, and making music!" What an opportunity!

Capsu78

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Re: My dreams of being a famous musician are over..
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2018, 02:31:52 PM »
Oh this is a fascinating discussion. I have no idea why I've spent time thinking about this other than the fact that I like music a lot, but...

Ok, when it comes to being a musician, my theory has always been that it could be something that paid your bills and allowed for at least a middle class lifestyle, but you would have to be geared towards making it pay, not towards becoming famous and wildly successful (which is a winning lottery ticket situation).

So--be in a really good cover band with members who all could play multiple instruments (giant bands=having to split the pay too many ways) and have a very efficient setup/tear down routine; play a lot of gigs and really try to specialize in weddings. Also give private lessons and market yourself well. Have a good website. Be conscientious about returning calls. Have an enormous repertoire and be able to learn a song in three seconds.

Am I wrong? Seems like a person who was a. a very good musician b. very professional and shit-together having and c. works well with others and is not unreasonable with bandmates could probably do okay, right?

I took lessons from a really stellar guitar teacher who was firing on all of these cylinders and he seemed to be doing just fine.

I have an old HS friend, now in his early 60's, who you describe pretty well above.  He has never worked outside of the music business;  rather he has, at one time or another, done nearly every you have mentioned above.  He has "regional" name recognition in a 200 mile area, has multiple versions of his bands, from solo acoustic to Rock & Roll headliner, does projects with other musicians many of you have heard of, has traveled the world representing a very well known instrument manufacturer as a brand representative, always has something coming up...he considers himself the luckiest guy on the planet. 
As for the "chicks", he also considers himself the luckiest guy on the planet with a happy marriage of over 35 years.  The only thing that would have changed his professional life would have been 2-3 timeless original songs, in his name whose usage would result in envelopes with checks arriving unannounced in his mailbox from time to time!