My anecdotal story of owning a Nissan leaf for 6 days

[browne497]

I would like to share my story just as a data point and maybe generate a discussion about something I am interested in: EV ownership. Specifically, budget EV ownership for people who do not live in a house or have home charging available. This was my situation when I briefly owned a 2017 Nissan Leaf. So here's what happened...

In summer of 2020, after living car free (apart from a couple short tenures of renting a car for temporary long distance commuting) in England for 3 years, I moved back to the US. Kansas to be specific. Obviously being a reader and fan of the MMM blog, my curiosity was peaked from MMM's experience owning his Leaf. Well I knew would be an apartment renter, at least in the beginning of living here, given my geographical instability (active duty military) but I also knew that there were public EV chargers, albeit not as many as I would like, especially in my part of town. My backup plan from the beginning was to buy a Toyota hybrid, either a Prius or the newer less Prius-looking Prius known as the Corolla Hybrid.

Well I made the decision that I was indeed going to at least test drive a Nissan Leaf. Now Leafs here in Kansas are not in abundance so buying from another person isn't as much of an option as it is in other places. So I logged into Carmax's website given my positive experience of selling a car to them before moving to England and receiving greater than KBB trade-in value. I found a used Leaf down in Austin, TX with less than 20K miles for let's say off memory around $16K. It cost maybe a few hundred bucks to have it shipped to my local Carmax which I think is pretty decent.

When the Leaf Arrived in Kansas, I got an Uber to the Carmax dealer and was ready to take it for a test drive. Or so I thought. The problem was that while I was living my best car-free life in England, I also was living car INSURANCE-free and of course with a big name used dealer like Carmax, you gotta have car insurance to test drive a car. Well I wasn't going to buy a car without trying it out, except I was because Carmax had a 7 day no questions asked money back guarantee. So I bought the Leaf and began my ownership experiment.

Now I'll say right off the bat that the experience owning a Leaf as a mustachian is probably way better than your average American would have regardless of any shortcomings, and I definitely enjoyed the driving experience of driving the car. The quietness, the game of maximizing regenerative breaking in the "B" mode and my commute to work was less than 10 miles one way so the 100 mile range wasn't too scary. The inevitable problem was when it came time to charge the car.

I was on a brief break from actually having to report to work while I got settled in so one week day, I took the Leaf for my first charge at a free public charging station. There were a few problems. This was a level 2 charger which I was fine with but there simply wasn't anything to do nearby to pass time. There was a church, which the charger was donated to, a grocery store, a Mexican restaurant, and a KFC nearby. Now it was also only a half hour walk back to my apartment, but leaving my car unattended wasn't something I was comfortable with. There were also the occasional people that would drive up to also use the single charger that I was using. I didn't have a bad experience with these people, in fact, one guy was quite friendly. But I couldn't help but think that in future attempts to charge, I would be the one unlucky enough to not make it there first. Long story short, it took like 6 hours to charge to maybe 90-95% percent and the thought of dealing with this in the Kansas Winter was enough to make me return the car.

So I did just that. I returned the car back to CarMax and got my money back and I now drive a Corolla Hybrid. I plan to own this thing until it falls apart or until an EV becomes a more feasible option for my living situation. I still think about that Leaf sometimes though and wonder if getting rid of it was completely necessary. I never got to try paying to use a DC fast charger. Supposedly that takes 30-45 minutes but some YouTube videos would suggest it takes much longer. I sometimes think buying a house would be a good idea because houses aren't too expensive here but I also don't feel like dealing with the hassle of selling it or renting it out if I ever have to move away again for my job.

What do you guys think? Was I just being weak in getting rid of the Leaf? Is it just not feasible yet for people without home or workplace charging available? I'm sure theres plenty to be said about my replacement car given that it's a 2021 model and I'm comfortable with living with that part of the decision. Feel free to give any opinions or related experiences.

[Villanelle]

I wouldn't consider a plug-in, all EV if I couldn't charge at home or at the very least, at work.  For exactly the reasons you stated. 

[RedmondStash]

You weren't weak. Convenient recharging is pretty important. Some offices have parking lots with EV chargers, but they can get pretty competitive, so there's no guarantee you'll get a slot while you're working at the office.

I've got a 2013 Leaf, bought in 2018; it now has about a 60-mile range. It's great for 90% of my driving (shopping, local errands), but I'm ready for a longer range.

I'm glad I got a cheaper EV to cut my teeth on, and learn about charging times, staying in that middle 60% of the range, battery degradation over time, etc. It was a good starter EV. But I can charge it in my (secure) garage at night. I wouldn't have gotten an EV if I couldn't charge it at home.

Also I hate the truncated side mirrors. I never quite feel safe merging or changing lanes.

As much as I support EVs, you have to be in a situation where it works for you. Otherwise, a hybrid is probably best.

[slugsworth]

Newer apartments buildings have been required to make a portion of their parking spaces "ev ready" for several years and I think that as the used EV market picks up more and more apartment buildings will start installing chargers. . . Until then ev's will be mostly bought by people who have single family homes or townhouses. It just is what it is.

[browne497]

Newer apartments buildings have been required to make a portion of their parking spaces "ev ready" for several years and I think that as the used EV market picks up more and more apartment buildings will start installing chargers. . . Until then ev's will be mostly bought by people who have single family homes or townhouses. It just is what it is.

I'd love that. Even if it meant paying for a subscription or monthly fee with my rent (so long as it was reasonable), I'd be all for charging mine at the clubhouse or something like that.

[We be free if we try]

I have a 2018 Leaf and have been renting houses for the last 2 years, where I can plug in - at one it was by running an extension cord out the living room window because there was no garage, but it worked fine. I agree that you need some kind of easy charging situation to make the EV worth it.

[clifp]

I wouldn't consider a plug-in, all EV if I couldn't charge at home or at the very least, at work.  For exactly the reasons you stated.

I'm on my second Tesla, a bare bones S, and now a 3, and I've loved them. However, I wouldn't have one if there wasn't a very convenient place to charge it, either at my home or work.  Just the few weeks, I spent having a Tesla with only a 110 volt charger (3 miles charge/hour) was painful.

[GodlessCommie]

I've been driving EVs since the first year the Leaf was available, and consider myself an EV enthusiast.

I would not opt for one if I couldn't charge at home.

On the flip side, I will not have a car w/o a plug for as long as I can charge at home.

[SpareChange]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I had wondered about the public charging stations and what using them is like, as I live in an apt with no option for charging as well. How do you like the Corolla hybrid?

[Channel-Z]

As someone who also lives in Kansas, I agree you nailed the problems with EV ownership here. We lack charging stations, and those that exist require many hours to charge. We have long distances between A and B. As an apartment dweller, I wouldn't be able to charge at home anyway. Then, there's the extreme weather (big winter storm this week!). The one person I know who owned an electric car actually got rid of it for a regular gas-powered vehicle.

[begood]

I think you made a wise decision, and you made it after direct experience, not hypotheticals. The environment you're in currently doesn't support an EV lifestyle. The Corolla Hybrid sounds like a terrific choice for you.

We bought a 2016 Leaf S in Aug 2019. It had 26K miles on it, and its max range is about 85 miles (~60 in winter). We've only put 3K miles on it over the past 30 months. I'd love an EV with longer range - especially in winter I start to tense up if the range gets below 30 miles. And that's with a secure garage we can charge in AND a free Level 2 charger at my husband's workplace. No way would we have bought it if we didn't know exactly where we were going to charge it. It's stressful!

[Just Joe]

Newer apartments buildings have been required to make a portion of their parking spaces "ev ready" for several years and I think that as the used EV market picks up more and more apartment buildings will start installing chargers. . . Until then ev's will be mostly bought by people who have single family homes or townhouses. It just is what it is.

That is very state dependent. Not the case in my red state AFAIK...

I've spent quite a bit of seat time in Leafs and like them alot. Count me in as a person would only own an EV if I could charge at home. And the Leaf's aircooled battery really benefits from slower home charging. Commercial chargers potentially heat up the battery on fast L3 charging. If the battery gets too hot, it throttles the charging speeds increasing charge times. It could also degrade the battery over time from being so hot repeatedly. I never saw the battery get too hot from use, only fast charging. It never heated up on slower L2 or L1 charging regardless of the weather.

I've driven the 150 mile Leaf and the 215 mile Leaf. I would certainly buy the 62 kwh battery b/c the larger battery should degrade slower b/c the individual cells aren't working as hard b/c the work is spread across more cells. Also, more spare range. And easier to keep the battery between 20% and 75% which also benefits the longevity of the battery.

[browne497]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I had wondered about the public charging stations and what using them is like, as I live in an apt with no option for charging as well. How do you like the Corolla hybrid?

I love it. It's not uncommon for me to get over 60 MPG in warmer months around town. Winter will drop it down between 45-50 because the engine runs a lot more, but that's still night and day over even the most efficient regular ICE cars. 51-53 on 70-75 MPH highways as EPA rated. I'm not sure how the Prius compares in real life MPG. The Prius is definitely more practical as far as carrying cargo given its liftback design, but the Corolla offers a much more simplified display of your fuel economy and use of the battery and engine while driving and is a little bit cheaper assuming you compare the same year models. I find the Prius display to be overwhelming with how much information it shows you.

[Villanelle]

Adding to my earlier comment, I started a post about a year ago asking about EVs.  We are a military family and move often, never knowing where we will end up, and what sort of house we will end up renting (or being assigned to, in some case).  I knew our next move would be to the burbs and it would be easy to find a home with a garage.  (though doubtful one with a charging set up).  We rent because we move so frequently, so I'd need landlord approval to put a charger in (unless those can be fairly easily removed without damage?).  But even that doesn't seem unsurmountable.  The problem was "what next".  Our previous home was in much more dense housing, with street parking out.  Running an extension cord through my open living room window, which was about 4 feet off the sidewalk of a heavily waked area, and to the street wouldn't have been viable.  Of course we could always attempt to choose housing with charging in mind, but that is pretty limiting and still might not always be feasible.  So I didn't even consider an EV (after initial thinking and research) because I might not live next in a place it would be plausible to charge it. 

Otherwise, it is ideal for my 2-person, 2 car (as of the most recent move) family.  I drive less than once a week and usually for >10 miles.  Almost always less than 50 miles.  And my spouse's commute is about 5 miles each way, so we could certainly trade cars if I needed to go further.   On paper, we are the ideal family for an EV.  But until we are more settled, I just couldn't pull the trigger.  Likely my next car will be a plug-in (or maybe plug-in hybrid).  I drive very little and had a 2000 Toyota Echo until 2019 (though I bought it used) so it is likely I will keep this car for about a decade.  By then, we should be fairly settled. 

[moof]

I've owned a 2011 Leaf for 7.5 years.  In general I would not recommend them unless you want to be "adventuresome".  A few niggles have been fixed in later model years, but many frustrations live on.
1.  Range meter is useless and deceptive.  It is optimistic at full charge, and the projected range drops off very fast initially, slower later.  The math buried in the computer just mangles what should be a relatively straightforward calculation.
2.  Range is not enough.  While sure you might rarely go on long outings, you still do and have to figure it out.  Stuff comes up mid-trip.  Very quickly you end up anxious and stressed about the whole thing.  I've done some fast charges along the way to further destinations, and basically concluded it is too high of a hassle/reward ratio to use for even 100 mile destinations.
3.  Public charging is a mess.  All too often it is a single charger you find, maybe free (usually clogged with a Tesla if free), maybe working, maybe still there at all.  Basically opportunistic charging is handy but far from reliable enough to actually count on.  You likely need to have a card or app for that specific network, and who knows if your credit card info is still up to date from whenever you set it up.  Even then I've been at the only fast charger for 10's of miles, and had it take several attempts and a phone call to begin charging.  It is all just too fragile and flaky.  Like the OP I'd argue against Leaf ownership without home charging.
4.  The Leaf has crappy sun visors.  To be fair many cars are in this camp, so try out the visors or research your potential buy for grips.
5.  The A-pillar visual blockage is huge and has led me to almost hit a pedestrian, and generally have to contort myself around it to see anything that might be hiding behind it.  It seems optimally placed to block the view of pedestrians when I am in the left-turn lane.  Again, many cars have similar issues, but the Leaf is by far the worst of any vehicle I have personally owned.
6.  Battery degradation is bad on Leaf's, far faster than virtually every other EV out there.  They have improved chemistry some in later model years, but we've lost 40% at its 10th birthday despite living in a moderate climate and not driving it all that much.  Your USABLE range drops much faster, as having a 10-15 mile reserve for your sanity is kind of fixed, and with a realistic ~45 mile total range (less in winter) it is pretty well relegated to grocery duty and very local trips.  Batteries should last more than 80k miles.
7.  It is hard on tires, and you are limited to the low rolling resistant options.  Leaf's chronically wear the outside edge of the front tires.  I'm luck to get 30k per set of tires, and feel like I am pushing it.

[RedmondStash]

5.  The A-pillar visual blockage is huge and has led me to almost hit a pedestrian, and generally have to contort myself around it to see anything that might be hiding behind it.  It seems optimally placed to block the view of pedestrians when I am in the left-turn lane.  Again, many cars have similar issues, but the Leaf is by far the worst of any vehicle I have personally owned.

Preach. I constantly find pedestrians popping up out of nowhere because they were hidden by my Leaf's frame. Very bad design. Makes for stressful driving.

6.  Battery degradation is bad on Leaf's, far faster than virtually every other EV out there.  They have improved chemistry some in later model years, but we've lost 40% at its 10th birthday despite living in a moderate climate and not driving it all that much.  Your USABLE range drops much faster, as having a 10-15 mile reserve for your sanity is kind of fixed, and with a realistic ~45 mile total range (less in winter) it is pretty well relegated to grocery duty and very local trips.  Batteries should last more than 80k miles.

Yep. My 2013 Leaf had probably an 84-mile range when new, and it's down to somewhere between 50 and 60 miles now. Battery degradation is a real issue, and is part of why I insist on any new EV I get having a minimum 250-mile range, to absorb battery degradation. I expect to drive my next EV into the ground.

[RWD]

6.  Battery degradation is bad on Leaf's, far faster than virtually every other EV out there.  They have improved chemistry some in later model years, but we've lost 40% at its 10th birthday despite living in a moderate climate and not driving it all that much.  Your USABLE range drops much faster, as having a 10-15 mile reserve for your sanity is kind of fixed, and with a realistic ~45 mile total range (less in winter) it is pretty well relegated to grocery duty and very local trips.  Batteries should last more than 80k miles.

Yep. My 2013 Leaf had probably an 84-mile range when new, and it's down to somewhere between 50 and 60 miles now. Battery degradation is a real issue, and is part of why I insist on any new EV I get having a minimum 250-mile range, to absorb battery degradation. I expect to drive my next EV into the ground.

The Nissan LEAF's battery was passively cooled which is why the degradation was so severe. New EVs will keep a much higher percentage of their range as they age.

Side note: The original LEAF's battery pack can be swapped for a newer one with more range than when it was new.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4nS_tSQiVQ

[BudgetSlasher]

We are presently a one-car household and that car is an EV. With our usage and local charging infrastructure and cost, an EV would not make sense for us without home charging.

In the summer we can get the better part of a week's commuting out of a single charge and in the winter that drops a bit due to heating and other climate related losses. Add in "quick" trips to the store or a weekend outing to go hiking and that's a good bit of charging.

Picking a random week in January we had the following charge sessions (L2 @ 32A) at home (in hours) 0:40, 3:18, 2:59, 2:19, 1:46, and 3:02; that's over a day on a charger and longer day trips can result in ~5 hours on a charger. In a denser area of the country with shorter commutes and without longer trips on the weekend we would charge a lot less (my former commute probably would have been ~3hrs/wk).

Without being able to charge at home the fuel costs would not make sense. Out experience (without paying a monthly membership fee for lower charging costs) is that fuel only $-per-mile is higher using DC fast chargers. L2 chargers vary, often the prices are set by the property owner not the charging network and can range from free, like your church, to what are they thinking. If there is a free L2 where we are going we will use it as a nice perk and occasionally it factors into our decision on where to go.

TLRD version: IMO no you were not weak.

Since we can charge at home if/when we go back to 2 cars our second will also be an EV.

[Just Joe]

https://youtu.be/Ws9Y1be8N-U

We had to have a single cell replaced in one of my employer's Leafs. Was under warranty but I was curious about the process. This video shows that done by the aftermarket.

The modularity of an EV battery is a big advantage. Its not like a typical lead acid battery where it must be replaced completely.

Of course my perspective is from that of an engineer who would DIY a cell replacement or a whole battery replacement if my car was out of warranty. Most people are reliant on a dealer or shop at a higher cost.

I can easily buy used Leaf battery modules for $75 each on eBay. Each newer module contains 8 cells so replacing a single cell would cost as little as $10 if I resold the remaining cells or - perhaps kept them as spares.

[EarlyInJourney]

I leased an electric Chevy Spark for 3 years in Los Angeles soon after moving here.  Experiencing a similar range to your Leaf (82 miles), I think you made the right call; I had access to charging at work, but not at home (apartment complex), and RANGE ANXIETY IS REAL.
 
My commute was only 5 miles each way, and 95% of the time, the car was great for me (so quick! no gas or maintenance costs! state of CA sent me a nice check for driving electric!).  But I found that 5% of the time when it wasn't optimal, it was really, really sub-optimal, and sucked out the joy, real fast.  It only takes a few times where you're driving and wondering if you're going to get to the charging station or get stranded, or pull up to the 1 station you have access to and there's already multiple cars in line to make you regret the limited range/no home charging EV choice.

I definitely want to do EVs in the future, but only with 1) 250+ mile range  and 2) ability to charge where I live.

[Just Joe]

As enthusiastic as I am about EVs, I see them best paired with an ICE car of some sort. EV when you can and drive the ICE when you need to.

Of course that indicates to me that a hybrid like Prius or Chevy Volt would be the best of both worlds.

[moof]

As enthusiastic as I am about EVs, I see them best paired with an ICE car of some sort. EV when you can and drive the ICE when you need to.

Of course that indicates to me that a hybrid like Prius or Chevy Volt would be the best of both worlds.

This was our solution.  Second car is a Prius V.  It gets used irregularly, but between the low range Leaf and it we barely buy gas, yet still have a second car when needed, and can go on road trips easily.
I've looked at swapping out for a salvage battery with better capacity.  At $6000 to get a >75% 30kWh battery we'd be at or slightly above the new capacity, but $6k is hard to swallow.  For $9500 you can get a >85% 40 kWh upgrade that is tempting.  Again, hard to justify versus just buying a beater ICE car for similar price point.  Amortizing over another 80k miles makes me lean towards the ICE route when the Leaf finally fails to handle local trips.

[scottnews]

These are very early days for EVs…   The Leaf is a first generation EV that was charging on first generation infrastructure.    Kia’s EV6 can charge to 80% capacity in 18 minutes, if the infrastructure is there.   The price is not mustachian.  There are supposed to be solid state batteries coming online around 2025.   That might make EVs more feasible in a place like MN.

There are 13 battery factories being constructed for 2025.   4 from GM and 3 from Ford.
https://electrek.co/2021/12/27/13-battery-gigafactories-coming-us-2025-ushering-new-era/

If we lived in a more temperate climate, we would consider an EV.   Everything here is tough on the environment, however.   EVs require twice the charge, heating your house, road maintenance (salt), etc.

Meanwhile, we moved to a house a couple miles from my work.  It allowed us to be a one car family while I bike or walk to work.