Author Topic: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)  (Read 19186 times)

iamlindoro

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Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« on: July 29, 2016, 11:12:49 AM »
EDIT: The site has launched.  https://www.theearthawaits.com/

Hi All,

So, I am working on a bit of a side project that exists at the intersection of FIRE and world travel. As many who know me or read my blog know, my future wife and I hope to FIRE and spend a good amount of time slow traveling.  The series of posts on the blog that have been most popular have been those where I present a collection of places where a very limited monthly FIRE budget would support a comfortable and interesting life.

I had a recent conversation with my future father in law.  He was bemoaning the fact that his brothers have all retired, and said something like, "But not me, they'll find me dead at my desk someday."  It upset my fiancée, and it upset me too.  He is drawing a full maxed-out Social Security, but lives a pretty tough life working full time in a stressful job because we live in a hugely expensive area. It occurred to me that the US (and the world) is full of people who might benefit from hard data showing what kind of life their limited income could buy them if they could consider a move (abroad or at least out of the area).

I'm working on a new way of presenting this information that I'm hopeful will appeal to a huge swath of people, even those not interested in FIRE.  What I could use, as I develop the idea, is some help in zeroing in on the most important information to you when considering a retirement, or even just a long stay, somewhere abroad or across your own country.

Consider this list of pieces of information to which I have access.  Which are the most important to you?  Is there information NOT on this list that is very important to you?  Let me know!  It would be a huge help to me in making this little project something that is able to help more people.  I'll explain more in the coming month or two as I get the tool into a usable state.  It works already... but before I make it public, it's important that I get it as polished as possible.

  • Monthly cost of living for a variety of lifestyles in each city
  • The ability to customize your own budget
  • Beautiful images
  • Local Internet speed
  • Quality of Health Care
  • Crime Rate
  • Average Hotel cost
  • Traffic levels
  • Pollution levels
  • Local Real Estate Prices
  • Local Points of Interest and Activities
  • Proximity to specific amenities such as: Beach, Mountains, Forest, International Airport, World Class Hospital

In sincerely appreciate any input. I am hopeful that I'm not unreasonably optimistic, but I feel like what I'm working on could be a great tool for people on the path to FIRE, and might even change the lives of some people who have retirement in their grasp, but just don't know it.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 11:47:22 AM by iamlindoro »
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LadyStache in Baja

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2016, 11:22:30 AM »
--infrastructure: what are the roads like?  how often does the electricity go out?  is there garbage service?

--daily necessities: what are the stores like?  how far do I have to go to buy peanut butter at a reasonable price?  how about hair conditioner?  tampons?  apples?

--language: will I have to be fluent to get by?  do local service people speak english? 

--weather: is this place comfortable year-round? 
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PhysicianOnFIRE

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2016, 11:23:26 AM »
I love your slow travel / ER abroad series.

 Additional things that could be helpful:

Primary Language
Percentage of locals able to speak English
Year-round climate data
What's available to eat and drink (some places ban alcohol. The nerve!)

Your FFIL sounds like a sad man in print, but maybe he wants to work 'til the end? Some people are like that.

You could also consider domestic locations that have a lower cost-of-living. Geographic arbitrage doesn't have to involve exotic locations, or Canada for that matter.

Best,
-PoF

iamlindoro

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2016, 11:27:57 AM »
Primary Language
Percentage of locals able to speak English
Year-round climate data
What's available to eat and drink (some places ban alcohol. The nerve!)

These are *great*, thank you.  Thank you also, Ladystache in Baja!  I love your suggestions as well.  I'll be somewhat limited by the need to do (or get done) the research for many locations, but anything I can automate or find in one central source of information is fair game.

Your FFIL sounds like a sad man in print, but maybe he wants to work 'til the end? Some people are like that.

Yeah... he doesn't, unfortunately.  It makes us really sad for him.  It's partly not knowing what else is out there, partly having recently lost his wife, and partly just being terrified to make any change. I don't know if we'll ever convince him to change things up, but I hold out hope.

You could also consider domestic locations that have a lower cost-of-living. Geographic arbitrage doesn't have to involve exotic locations, or Canada for that matter.

Thanks!  The "thingie" will have US and Canadian destinations included as well.  It'll be a limited set, but it'll hit a lot of the well-known places.
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tyleriam

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2016, 11:39:51 AM »
I have often thought someone should build an Americanized retirement community in a low cost of living country near an international airport.  Wall it off and make it look just like a typical American town with golf courses and all that.  Set it up in a place where you can live like a king on a typical SS check.  Basically build/copy The Villages in India or someplace.

Candace

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2016, 11:51:29 AM »
There's a site called Retire Early Lifestyle you ought to take a look at. They address a lot of these issues, and there could be a lot of overlap.

I would add "Local friendliness level, and/or level of tolerance for Americans". In other words, can one make friends with the locals, or are they suspicious and/or intolerant?

Can one learn the local language through local programs or tutors?

iamlindoro

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2016, 12:01:04 PM »
There's a site called Retire Early Lifestyle you ought to take a look at. They address a lot of these issues, and there could be a lot of overlap.

Retire Early Lifestyle is a blog only, as far as I'm aware.  Perhaps I'm at the wrong site or there's an aspect of it that I'm missing?  I don't see much overlap there with what I've done/what I'm planning.
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iamlindoro

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2016, 12:16:58 PM »
Thought of another couple I could easily add, feel free to comment on anything suggested as far as how important it is to you.  This is something I need so that I can decide where to show which data (ie, what should be obvious at first glance, versus deeper in the article , page, etc).

Population
Level of Women's Rights
Level of LGBT Rights
Life is short. Save hard. Travel far.
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The Earth Awaits: The Custom Budget-building and Travel-Hacking Search Engine for World Travelers
https://www.theearthawaits.com/

arebelspy

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2016, 03:23:51 PM »
While you mentioned proximity to international airport, travel cost to get there from US could be a major factor.

E.g. if an average round trip ticket to US is $300-400 (say, Caribbean) versus $1500 (some places in Asia or Europe, maybe), that's a big difference not encapsulated by the fact that both places may be close to an International airport.

Good list so far.  I'm excited to see where you're going with this!
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LLCoolDave

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2016, 03:44:04 PM »
First off I would never recommend moving to another country just because it is cheaper. Expats who do that don't last very long. You need to have a love of travel and adapt to the local culture.

LEARN THE LOCAL LANGUAGE!

Don't buy real estate the first two or three years maybe 5. Rent. Rent. Rent. Most expats come back to the US poorer than when they left because of poor real estate purchases.
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dougules

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2016, 04:06:29 PM »
Let's start off by looking at the US (or insert other rich country) for comparison when judging developing countries.  Some of them can be actually ahead on things like LGBT rights, weather, food, knowledge of a foreign language (yes, that's you Mr. They-Need-To-Learn-English), and several other things.

iamlindoro

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2016, 04:08:11 PM »
While you mentioned proximity to international airport, travel cost to get there from US could be a major factor.

Good call, thanks. This will definitely be included.

I think you will enjoy where this is going, I'd be very interested to see how or whether it helps you guys out as you do exactly what we're hoping to do.
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alamedagal

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2016, 04:12:58 PM »
How about visa and immigration requirements.  Tourist visas are usually only good for 1-3 months.

Great idea.  Looking forward to seeing the tool.



arebelspy

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2016, 04:15:54 PM »
How about visa and immigration requirements.  Tourist visas are usually only good for 1-3 months.

Great idea.  Looking forward to seeing the tool.

Good one!  Maybe 3 levels for this one:
1) Length of stay with little to no hassle (along with cost(s))
2) Amount of hassle for longer stays
3) Amount of hassle to be able to stay permanently
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

iamlindoro

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2016, 04:16:51 PM »
How about visa and immigration requirements.  Tourist visas are usually only good for 1-3 months.

Great idea.  Looking forward to seeing the tool.

Thanks, added to the list (though for the time being it will probably be limited to "Visa on arrival for Americans: true/false" and "Duration of visa on arrival")!
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Paul der Krake

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2016, 04:20:37 PM »
I've been an expat my entire life, and wouldn't have it any other way. When I first met my wife, I was floored to learn that until going to college she had lived in the same house her entire life.

Language has never been important, as it can be learned. I value:

- western values: the rule of law, some degree of equality before it, and some degree of stability (there tends to be a high correlation there)
- access to culture
- a reasonable expectation of being able to integrate
- not unreasonably far the from the rest of the first world (looking at you Hawaii)

Practical matters are a distraction, IMHO. If the place appeals to you, you'll make it work. But then again I typically look to settle somewhere for a minimum of 3-5 years, which means any and all costs have a longer amortization schedule.

Cap_Scarlet

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2016, 04:26:26 PM »
I suspect that the major reason why many people do not take action has nothing to do with practicalities but more to do with:

a. Inertia - much easier to stay with what you know, irrespective of whether its stressful and / or expensive.
b. Friends and family.

nancyjnelson

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2016, 02:56:50 PM »
- Can I drink the water.
- I second the suggestion re length of stay and associated hassles.

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2016, 07:31:25 AM »
Proximity to friends and family.

Willingness of friends and/or family to travel to your new home country (some locations appeal to family more than others).

Friendliness of locals.

One's level of interest in the culture and language of the new country and cost of language lessons once there.

Proximity to other countries or destinations to which one may want to travel.

SimplyMarvie

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2016, 08:50:23 AM »
I think this is great... but as a serial expat, I wonder how you're going to form meaningful answers to these questions. In my experience looking at places to live and considering these types of question there are the almanac/factbook answers, the "what everyone tells you" answers, and the actual answers that you develop after you live somewhere for a while. Often, those answers are enormously different from one another -- and differ from person to person.

As an example, we LOVE the country we're currently living in and would stay here forever if we could. We find that the majority of people we interact with are friendly and helpful, the amount of language we need to get around is something we can handle, we can find everything that we want at the shops, and we love the culture and the vibe and energy of our temporary home country. We've just said goodbye to several families who feel the EXACT opposite; they feel like no one speaks English and the local language is insurmountable, the people are surly and it's hard to do business, and they can never find the things they need and were over the moon to see the borders on their way out.

A bit of that is expectation, and a bit of it is family culture -- there are no Gino's Pizza Rolls here, which bothers them because they love them, and doesn't bother me because I don't. Whereas in our last temporary home we couldn't find lemons or mushrooms and it made me crazy. But a lot of it is intangible bits that I generally sum up as "vibe", which is both enormously important and sadly unquantifiable.

iamlindoro

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2016, 09:02:34 AM »
I think this is great... but as a serial expat, I wonder how you're going to form meaningful answers to these questions.

...

But a lot of it is intangible bits that I generally sum up as "vibe", which is both enormously important and sadly unquantifiable.

Thank you for your input.  I won't be making any effort to quantify the unquantifiable.  There is enough of an opportunity to collect the concrete information, and as you have said, answering abstract questions like "will I be happy there," "will people like me," and "is the culture compatible with my personal preference" is virtually impossible.  Even were I to add a huge amount of editorial content, it would still be entirely subjective.  That's not the aim on what I've got cooking, at least not at the moment.

The goal will basically be to get people from "I can't retire/Where would I even live/I don't even know where I could afford" to "Wow, neat, I never thought of that place/Huh, that sounds interesting, I never even considered <city>/I think I could really make this work."  It's not to talk people into retiring abroad or relocating, just to open eyes to the plausibility of such a thing and inspire people who already lean in that direction with options.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 09:08:42 AM by iamlindoro »
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Eric

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2016, 11:44:49 AM »
Vaccinations hasn't been mentioned.

Some other things that I have on my list to research for places, which may or may not be quantifiable, are common scams, tipping customs, alcohol and marijuana laws, and bad neighborhoods to avoid.

I've also started looking at historical exchange rates.  So while I'm sure that you'll be converting everything to USD (or maybe user's choice currency), I think it's interesting to see that the (current) strong dollar makes place X 30% cheaper than it was 5 years ago whereas place Y is only 5% cheaper.  Therefore, maybe I should visit place X now and save Y for later.  I thought it was interesting, but I guess I don't know if it's all that relevant.  After all, you're paying today's rates no matter what.
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iamlindoro

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2016, 11:52:32 AM »
Vaccinations hasn't been mentioned.

Some other things that I have on my list to research for places, which may or may not be quantifiable, are common scams, tipping customs, alcohol and marijuana laws, and bad neighborhoods to avoid.

I've also started looking at historical exchange rates.  So while I'm sure that you'll be converting everything to USD (or maybe user's choice currency), I think it's interesting to see that the (current) strong dollar makes place X 30% cheaper than it was 5 years ago whereas place Y is only 5% cheaper.  Therefore, maybe I should visit place X now and save Y for later.  I thought it was interesting, but I guess I don't know if it's all that relevant.  After all, you're paying today's rates no matter what.

Thanks, Eric!  These are excellent things to add- vaccinations, tipping customs, and alcohol and marijuana laws in particular are things that I can (probably) easily parse or include from other sources.  Not everything will make the first iteration of what I'm working on, but some of the items mentioned here so far surely will.
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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2016, 12:53:39 PM »
I love this idea! Your living abroad series is so inspiring to me. I can't wait to see what this looks like.

I don't know if this has already been said or falls under crime, but I think integrity of law enforcement would be a consideration for me. Don't roll your eyes, I'm not discussing the current situation in America - I'm more referring to....are bribes expected by local officials? Also the type of crime would matter to me. Petty theft? Not that big of a deal. Beheadings? Probably not going to risk it.

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2016, 03:07:34 PM »
The US has lots of LCOL areas so maybe also concentrate on those also. Then many issues disappear such as language barriers, problems with owning real estate abroad, etc.

iamlindoro

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2016, 04:16:05 PM »
I love this idea! Your living abroad series is so inspiring to me. I can't wait to see what this looks like.

Thank you! I think it will be a couple of months yet before I have something to show, but I'm optimistic.  Bear with me :)

The US has lots of LCOL areas so maybe also concentrate on those also.

Thanks. No doubt this is true, it's just not my personal passion to explore US relocation options. What I'm cooking up does cover some US cities, but it's definitely not the primary thrust (and probably won't ever be).  There's a *lot* of information available to those interested in relocating in the US, in our first language.  There's less available to match you with the right place abroad (if your interests skew in that direction).
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Libertea

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2016, 05:41:16 PM »
As someone who plans to semi-retire (at least initially), I'd be interested in knowing about job options for US citizens in some of these places.  Also, would be helpful to know about dual citizenship possibilities for those who plan to live abroad in a specific country but also want to maintain their US citizenship (which is definitely something I'd consider doing).

Thanks for building this resource.  Look forward to seeing the finished product.

Eric

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2016, 06:03:13 PM »
Also, would be helpful to know about dual citizenship possibilities for those who plan to live abroad in a specific country but also want to maintain their US citizenship (which is definitely something I'd consider doing).

Your US citizenship isn't affected by living in another country, even if you become a resident there.

http://www.expatinfodesk.com/expat-guide/nationality-specific-information/americans/american-rights-retained/

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/on-retirement/2011/06/13/20-frequently-asked-retire-overseas-questions
"Compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe."  -- Einstein

Libertea

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2016, 11:41:00 PM »
Your US citizenship isn't affected by living in another country, even if you become a resident there.
Yes, but do other countries always let you concurrently keep your US citizenship if you want to become a citizen there as well?  That's really more my concern.

arebelspy

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2016, 11:45:16 PM »
Your US citizenship isn't affected by living in another country, even if you become a resident there.
Yes, but do other countries always let you concurrently keep your US citizenship if you want to become a citizen there as well?  That's really more my concern.

Why are you wanting to become a citizen?

Becoming a citizen somewhere is usually a long, slow, and expensive process, with not much benefit other than getting to vote (and maybe own land, though often citizenship isn't even required for that, or if it is, there's ways around it). 

We'd likely, if we settle somewhere outside the US, look to become residents.  Get to stay there indefinitely with much less hassle.

Maybe you have a reason, which is why I'm asking, but to me, becoming a resident of elsewhere seems like the way to go the majority of the time.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

Libertea

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2016, 11:53:28 PM »
Why are you wanting to become a citizen?

Becoming a citizen somewhere is usually a long, slow, and expensive process, with not much benefit other than getting to vote (and maybe own land, though often citizenship isn't even required for that, or if it is, there's ways around it). 

We'd likely, if we settle somewhere outside the US, look to become residents.  Get to stay there indefinitely with much less hassle.

Maybe you have a reason, which is why I'm asking, but to me, becoming a resident of elsewhere seems like the way to go the majority of the time.
I don't know that for sure.  I'm just exploring options.  Since someone is going through all the trouble to put together a database, just thinking it would be nice to have that info.

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2016, 11:58:35 PM »
You might move there, meet somebody, get married, have kids etc. At some point you might then want to get the citizenship?

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2016, 12:17:55 AM »
Why are you wanting to become a citizen?

Becoming a citizen somewhere is usually a long, slow, and expensive process, with not much benefit other than getting to vote (and maybe own land, though often citizenship isn't even required for that, or if it is, there's ways around it). 

We'd likely, if we settle somewhere outside the US, look to become residents.  Get to stay there indefinitely with much less hassle.

Maybe you have a reason, which is why I'm asking, but to me, becoming a resident of elsewhere seems like the way to go the majority of the time.
I don't know that for sure.  I'm just exploring options.  Since someone is going through all the trouble to put together a database, just thinking it would be nice to have that info.

Makes sense.  Citizenship or residency at least--something that makes it easy to stay indefinitely.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
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You can also read my forum "Journal."

nnls

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2016, 12:44:19 AM »
How about visa and immigration requirements.  Tourist visas are usually only good for 1-3 months.

Great idea.  Looking forward to seeing the tool.

Thanks, added to the list (though for the time being it will probably be limited to "Visa on arrival for Americans: true/false" and "Duration of visa on arrival")!

this website https://www.visahq.com/visas.php might be helpful for working out visa requirements. I assume you are only doing it for USA citizens but might be helpful to have a link to a website like this for people from other countries who might want to know the visa requirements

Paul der Krake

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2016, 03:03:28 AM »
Your US citizenship isn't affected by living in another country, even if you become a resident there.
Yes, but do other countries always let you concurrently keep your US citizenship if you want to become a citizen there as well?  That's really more my concern.

Why are you wanting to become a citizen?

Becoming a citizen somewhere is usually a long, slow, and expensive process, with not much benefit other than getting to vote (and maybe own land, though often citizenship isn't even required for that, or if it is, there's ways around it). 

We'd likely, if we settle somewhere outside the US, look to become residents.  Get to stay there indefinitely with much less hassle.

Maybe you have a reason, which is why I'm asking, but to me, becoming a resident of elsewhere seems like the way to go the majority of the time.
Obviously the EU is a subset of countries one could wish to become a citizen of, but one awesome aspect of becoming a citizen of an EU country (save Britain, krkrkrkr), is that it makes moving between EU countries a breeze. Literally pack up and go. We will be pursuing this for my wife at some point. She would be eligible to become a resident anyway by virtue of being married to me, but the bureaucracy that can be avoided makes this worthwhile after moving to EU country #2.

Many countries citizenship requirements are almost entirely time based. If you've been here long enough (and have the literacy of an 8 year old, you qualify.

Secretly Saving

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2016, 04:14:17 AM »
I didn't read all the comments, but the thing that popped into my mind was number of expats in the community.  Some propel want to live near other expats and other people want to have a totally immersive experience.

dougules

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2016, 11:53:37 AM »
Has anybody on here ever had experience living in a major Latin American city?  Most people seem to avoid them where possible, but I've really enjoyed the few days I spent on trips in Mexico City and Lima.  I'm curious to see what people say that have actually lived in a major Latin American city, though.  I am seriously thinking about trying it out post-FIRE, but I have to admit I'm a little nervous. 

iamlindoro

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2016, 03:07:14 PM »
Thank you all so, so much for the input you've all provided here.  I've already incorporated so much of the food for thought you've given me. I will leave this little teaser of the work in progress.  I'm pumped to share it with you all as soon as I can.

http://imgur.com/a/HyCbB
Life is short. Save hard. Travel far.
http://frugalvagabond.com/
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The Earth Awaits: The Custom Budget-building and Travel-Hacking Search Engine for World Travelers
https://www.theearthawaits.com/

hoping2retire35

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2016, 05:36:53 AM »
since the title asks about slow travel Ill bring this up too. Has anyone tried to travel to different US cities? Which ones are interesting and have enough activities for a few weeks? I asked a similar question but more in regards to little kids here.
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mini-money-mustaches/month-long-vacations-in-the-us-where-to-go-with-little-ones/

I would like to travel abroad also but it seems like we have so much in North America that you could miss out on a lot of hassle free, inexpensive travel and not seeing a lot of sites and getting different cultural experiences.

2lazy2retire

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2016, 07:04:42 AM »
I have often thought someone should build an Americanized retirement community in a low cost of living country near an international airport.  Wall it off and make it look just like a typical American town with golf courses and all that.  Set it up in a place where you can live like a king on a typical SS check.  Basically build/copy The Villages in India or someplace.

Can you bring Trump with you? - please

potm

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2016, 07:22:43 AM »
The attractiveness of the local ladies/gentlemen? 😜
Posting to follow haha.

Us2bCool

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2016, 08:11:50 AM »
I have often thought someone should build an Americanized retirement community in a low cost of living country near an international airport.  Wall it off and make it look just like a typical American town with golf courses and all that.  Set it up in a place where you can live like a king on a typical SS check.  Basically build/copy The Villages in India or someplace.

I think there are quite a few developments like this in the Cancun/Playa del Carmen area of Mexico.

NotJustDreaming

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2016, 06:31:56 AM »
Thank you all so, so much for the input you've all provided here.  I've already incorporated so much of the food for thought you've given me. I will leave this little teaser of the work in progress.  I'm pumped to share it with you all as soon as I can.

http://imgur.com/a/HyCbB

Looks very cool. I'm looking forward to trying out the final product.

aldrimer

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2016, 06:45:48 AM »
There's a similar sight to what's been suggested in this thread, which is Nomad List, a site that lists the best cities in the world for digital nomads. Places can be sort using all sorts of filters such as costs of living, crime-rate, wifi-speed etc.
https://nomadlist.com/
It's a paid service, so I have never tried it to the full extent, but maybe you could get some inspiration browsing the site?

iamlindoro

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2016, 07:16:23 AM »
There's a similar sight to what's been suggested in this thread, which is Nomad List, a site that lists the best cities in the world for digital nomads. Places can be sort using all sorts of filters such as costs of living, crime-rate, wifi-speed etc.
https://nomadlist.com/
It's a paid service, so I have never tried it to the full extent, but maybe you could get some inspiration browsing the site?

Thanks, I know of NomadList and there will inevitably be comparisons (both kind and unkind).  The author of that site is twice the web developer I will probably ever be (I am a developer, but have never worked on a web app before), and his site is perfectly focused on his intended audience.  There is one major element to what I'm working on that NomadList lacks that I'm keeping to myself that makes it a tool better suited to early retirees and those looking to live longer than a few weeks at a time in a given place... but I'm going to remain silent on that for right now.

Anyway, I have nothing but respect for what NomadList has done-- it is an awesome site. I just wanted something that worked a little differently and was a little more suited to my own personal interests.
Life is short. Save hard. Travel far.
http://frugalvagabond.com/
---------------------------------------
The Earth Awaits: The Custom Budget-building and Travel-Hacking Search Engine for World Travelers
https://www.theearthawaits.com/

electriceagle

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2016, 07:47:19 AM »
I think this is great... but as a serial expat, I wonder how you're going to form meaningful answers to these questions.

...

But a lot of it is intangible bits that I generally sum up as "vibe", which is both enormously important and sadly unquantifiable.

Thank you for your input.  I won't be making any effort to quantify the unquantifiable.  There is enough of an opportunity to collect the concrete information, and as you have said, answering abstract questions like "will I be happy there," "will people like me," and "is the culture compatible with my personal preference" is virtually impossible.  Even were I to add a huge amount of editorial content, it would still be entirely subjective.  That's not the aim on what I've got cooking, at least not at the moment.

The goal will basically be to get people from "I can't retire/Where would I even live/I don't even know where I could afford" to "Wow, neat, I never thought of that place/Huh, that sounds interesting, I never even considered <city>/I think I could really make this work."  It's not to talk people into retiring abroad or relocating, just to open eyes to the plausibility of such a thing and inspire people who already lean in that direction with options.

Most of the stuff that people really care about is both unquantifiable and heavily dependent on individual actions.

The only use the I can see for a table or database is elimination of bad destinations. Destinations with severe violence problems, lack of rights for women and minorities, extreme corruption, etc.

Beyond that, each person has to look at their preferences and needs, and actually go to visit places.

Also, beware the hidden monster of developing country retirement: inflation. The 4% rule doesn't work if local inflation is 7% while US inflation is 2% -- your income in local terms decreases by 5% per year.

iamlindoro

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2016, 12:32:22 PM »
Most of the stuff that people really care about is both unquantifiable and heavily dependent on individual actions.

People vary, I think. Personally, the stuff I'm building in is stuff that I really care about, and thanks to the suggestions here, will hopefully be stuff a lot of other people care about, too.

The only use the I can see for a table or database is elimination of bad destinations. Destinations with severe violence problems, lack of rights for women and minorities, extreme corruption, etc.

That's one helpful aspect, but I think that 1) what places are actually out there that meet an individual's minimum standard of living, and 2) what that standard of living in that location would cost, are both extremely valuable to folks. People just don't *know* what options are available to them, at their budget, with their preferences.

Beyond that, each person has to look at their preferences and needs, and actually go to visit places.

Sure.  That's why quantifying the unquantifiable in a tool is a fool's errand. I (or any individual) could only attempt to address them according to my own viewpoint. I want to build something that will help, at least in part, anyone who uses it.

Also, beware the hidden monster of developing country retirement: inflation. The 4% rule doesn't work if local inflation is 7% while US inflation is 2% -- your income in local terms decreases by 5% per year.

Personally, I don't think anyone should expect to land someplace and expect that nothing can or will change. Speaking for myself, if we end up someplace based on current conditions (financial, social, or otherwise), and those conditions change, we'll move.  Obviously that's not the case with everyone, but things can change in the blink of an eye no matter where you live, developed nation or no.  Flexibility is the number two ingredient in FIRE (after a giant stack of money).
Life is short. Save hard. Travel far.
http://frugalvagabond.com/
---------------------------------------
The Earth Awaits: The Custom Budget-building and Travel-Hacking Search Engine for World Travelers
https://www.theearthawaits.com/

Eric

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2016, 01:53:21 PM »
Also, beware the hidden monster of developing country retirement: inflation. The 4% rule doesn't work if local inflation is 7% while US inflation is 2% -- your income in local terms decreases by 5% per year.

Personally, I don't think anyone should expect to land someplace and expect that nothing can or will change. Speaking for myself, if we end up someplace based on current conditions (financial, social, or otherwise), and those conditions change, we'll move.  Obviously that's not the case with everyone, but things can change in the blink of an eye no matter where you live, developed nation or no.  Flexibility is the number two ingredient in FIRE (after a giant stack of money).

Hahahaha, yeah that's the truth.  I think the beauty of the travel lifestyle is that we'll have way more flexibility in spending than the average FIRE-ee.  Well, unless your budget is based on only living in Nicaragua or Cambodia, but I'm guessing most of us also want to spend time in fancier places as well.  So budgeting to be able to live in Europe and SE Asia during a year, and then having the option to cut your expenses by half or more if needed will be a wonderful safety net.
"Compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe."  -- Einstein

rachael talcott

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2016, 07:06:07 PM »
-Tax laws for expats

I'm planning to eventually live in France for at least a few years.  There is a whole treaty between the US and France about how expats pay taxes. 

iamlindoro

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Re: Mustachians Interested in Retiring Abroad (or Slow Travel)
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2016, 11:46:37 AM »
It's ready.  It'll probably never be "done," but it's ready.

Introducing The Earth Awaits. If you've ever followed my Retire Abroad series, The Earth Awaits in the next level. It'll take *your* inputs, needs, and family into account, generating up-to-the-minute, current budgets for over 500 cities around the world.  Every search you do builds budgets dynamically, for you. I think it's the best worldwide exploration and relocation/slow travel tool on the internet.  Some sites will give you a general idea of a budget for a place build by someone else, but only at The Earth Awaits can you build your own, edit it, download it, and explore hundreds of amazing places in rich, vibrant color.

Check it out.  Blog post to follow, but since so much of the help I got here formed the basis of the site, I wanted to give you guys a tiny head start.

https://www.theearthawaits.com/
Life is short. Save hard. Travel far.
http://frugalvagabond.com/
---------------------------------------
The Earth Awaits: The Custom Budget-building and Travel-Hacking Search Engine for World Travelers
https://www.theearthawaits.com/