Author Topic: Mustachians Beating inflation - Green energy and auto frugality win again  (Read 4329 times)

wildatheart

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The inflation panic will undoubtedly consume the market for 36 hours but as Mustachians we can all take some comfort if you produce your own energy or own a non-gas -consuming form of primary transportation. This latest report shows gas and energy products and the price of used vehicles responsible for a large majority of inflation. Personally, I feel like my 3-year-old HPEV and Solar array are paying extra dividends right now.

Cranky

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Re: Mustachians Beating inflation - Green energy and auto frugality win again
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2021, 09:53:44 AM »
While those are excellent things, I can achieve the same savings by keeping my old small car and driving a few miles less each week…

Ron Scott

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Re: Mustachians Beating inflation - Green energy and auto frugality win again
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2021, 04:31:12 AM »
It’s hard to argue that gas and used cars have not been hard-hit.  But as your table shows many items including putting food on the table are getting more expensive and tough to avoid.

Cutting back your spending on items that have experienced big jumps in prices can help a lot. Better still, plan for retirement as if our experience during recent years with high equity returns and historically low inflation will reverse for awhile and then revert to modest returns/modest inflation.

The world is going through interesting economic times. The balance between superpowers is changing, climate change is turning out to be more expensive than we anticipated, and we are moving away from the fossil fuels that the economies of many powerful countries have relied on. Making predictions is hard, especially about the future.

It’s best to have a little extra financial cushion under your seat, IMO.

« Last Edit: December 12, 2021, 04:33:03 AM by Ron Scott »

stoaX

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Re: Mustachians Beating inflation - Green energy and auto frugality win again
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2021, 05:25:19 AM »
While those are excellent things, I can achieve the same savings by keeping my old small car and driving a few miles less each week…

Very true.

But I do envy the OP's set up of an ev powered by a solar array.

GodlessCommie

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Re: Mustachians Beating inflation - Green energy and auto frugality win again
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2021, 03:22:01 PM »
Not caring about gas prices is definitely a perk of owning an EV. I'm only about 50% solar-powerd, though. Should come higher this year, with very mild November and December allowing for virtually no heating.

KarefulKactus15

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Re: Mustachians Beating inflation - Green energy and auto frugality win again
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2021, 08:48:57 AM »
I hope to see building codes that start trending towards passive design. Proper facing homes with eeves and windows that are efficient for summer and winter sun angles.

As we trend towards that the rest should fall into place, you need a smaller solar array, smaller heating system.... Etc etc. 

I'm building an HVAC company right now but I eventually want to be a whole home performance company.   

Ron Scott

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Re: Mustachians Beating inflation - Green energy and auto frugality win again
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2021, 09:19:35 AM »
I hope to see building codes that start trending towards passive design. Proper facing homes with eeves and windows that are efficient for summer and winter sun angles.

As we trend towards that the rest should fall into place, you need a smaller solar array, smaller heating system.... Etc etc. 

I'm building an HVAC company right now but I eventually want to be a whole home performance company.


Your thinking—excellent, BTW—suffers from the fallacy that common sense will prevail in the real world. I really hope to see ideas like yours take hold, but there’s real work to do…

In my earlier life I testified at a DC hearing set to determine if legislation should be passed to require the installation of hurricane ties (securing studs to the top and bottom plates to prevent roof detachment) on new residential construction. I testified in favor. A guy from the National Home Builders Association testified against. His line of reasoning? Every $250 added to the price of a new home disenfranchises 10,000 Americans from the dream of home ownership. That bullshit (and some campaign contributions) stalled the effort…

FWIW—Here’s some of your thinking from the early 1900s. Awnings blocked the summer sun, and the rounded fronts of the brownstones could pick up a passing breeze:


bryan995

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Re: Mustachians Beating inflation - Green energy and auto frugality win again
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2021, 05:28:17 AM »
I too am smiling at my EV + 12kW Solar + 2powerwall setup. All financed at 0.99% over 10 years in March 2021 dollars. We are now all but immune to rising utility costs.

But be careful of NEM3 changes. The electric providers are trying to claw back control in the latest (CA) legislation 😳

rantk81

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Sorry if this is going to be a bit off-topic for this thread -- it's more of a rant.

I went to pick up some groceries last night.  There seems to have been yet another "level up" in prices, since the last time I made a big grocery trip.
I'd estimate that on the whole, most grocery items that I tend to buy, are probably up between 30-50% over their prices from about a year ago.

I am incredibly fortunate, in that, I have great savings, and a great income.  These price changes are far from causing a real hard-ship for me.  However, what is getting to me is the RATE of change in prices, with no end in sight!

I just want to mention a few prices of items from my latest grocery trip, comparing with what the "last fairly recent" price from memory was:

18 large grade A eggs  $1.49 -> $2.79
8oz block cheese $2.29 -> $2.69
2pk green bell pepper $2.29 -> $2.99
breakfast polish sausage 14oz $3.29 -> $4.39
spam 12oz can  $2.79 -> $3.59
folgers black silk $7.49 -> $9.49
chicken $1.99/lb -> $2.99/lb
85% ground beef $4.99/lb -> $6.29/lb
can refried beans $0.79 -> $1.19

Those were just off the top of my head.  I'd say that, out of all the items I bought, only about 10% of them had not gone up in price -- SINCE MY LAST TIME BUYING SAID ITEMS!  This is out of control IMO.  There's only so much "substitution" someone can do, until they're just at the point of eating mostly unhealthy high carb/high sodium processed junk.

Tass

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To be fair, most of your listed items are animal products. I have no moral problem with eating animal products, but being vegetarian is definitely cheaper (EDIT: and greener). Beans can be had more cheaply if you buy them dry and cook them yourself. The only unsubstitutable thing I see on your list is the green bell pepper.

And maybe the coffee, which I had to google to know what it was because I'm a tea drinker. :)

I'm sorry for "well actually"ing your rant, but the theme of the thread is using frugality to avoid inflation, so I felt it was worth pointing out. I am impressed that you knew all the old prices from memory.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2022, 10:48:21 AM by Tass »

Cranky

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Try Aldi (which I know is available in Chicago.) Skinless boneless chicken breasts were this week’s special @$1.99/lb.

Stuff really is higher, though. And eggs are going to probably be higher yet because of the avian flu outbreak.

roomtempmayo

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85% ground beef $4.99/lb -> $6.29/lb

Meat is weird right now.  The supermarket commodity bright pink stuff has somehow caught up with the organic grass fed stuff from my local coop.  Stuff at the coop has always been $5.99/lb and hasn't budged. 

I just heard that my dad is going to bring by a quarter beef from a local rancher.  It'll be processed at a local independent butcher shop.  Price per pound for everything - custom cut, double wrapped, and frozen - will be below supermarket hamburger price.

If you can find a meat supply chain that avoids the large commercial processors (e.g. the Amish or Hutterites) you might find that the price has been the same for a decade or more, and you'll likely get a better product.

PDXTabs

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85% ground beef $4.99/lb -> $6.29/lb

Meat is weird right now.  The supermarket commodity bright pink stuff has somehow caught up with the organic grass fed stuff from my local coop.  Stuff at the coop has always been $5.99/lb and hasn't budged. 

Yup, I always buy grass fed beef and I still have two sources (my main sources) that haven't gone up.

rantk81

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Re: Aldi - Yes, they are in Chicago, and I do shop there whenever I can. However, I don't currently have a vehicle, and there aren't any Aldi stores that are near where I live.  Plus, I have an old back-injury that prevents me from carrying a lot of things -- so it really isn't feasible to get groceries from Aldi unless I can arrange a trip with a friend.  (Plus, if I order via Instacart from Aldi, the increase in prices, plus fees and tip, make it more expensive than walking to my near-by grocery stores -- with the additional negative that I don't get to pick out my produce, and often am unhappy with any substitutions.)

Re: Plant based diets - Yes, those are far less expensive, typically because a lot of the calories end up coming from grains/carbs.  And yes, it's better for Earth. But I am of the opinion that carbs are not great for my health, and I feel much much better when I generally avoid carbs, and instead get the majority of my calories from animal proteins and fats.

Regarding buying fresh chicken to cook -- I have been completely disappointed with it lately -- regardless of the store it comes from.  It seems to be injected with so much saltwater, that it is impossible to roast or sear.  All of that water just oozes out, and it turns out to be an unappealing steamed unappetizing mess.  The best way I've found to prepare it is to buy bone-in and skin-on dark meat (thighs, legs, or quarters), and boil them first, so that the injected saltwater can ooze out of it.  It also helps to throw a few bay leaves and garlic cloves into the water.  Then, after boiling, I remove them from the water, dry them off, coat them in olive oil, salt, herbs, and roast in the oven until the skin is crispy.


Fishindude

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Very true.

But I do envy the OP's set up of an ev powered by a solar array.

It took a substantial expenditure to purchase the solar array and the EV which must also be considered.

Just Joe

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I just heard that my dad is going to bring by a quarter beef from a local rancher.  It'll be processed at a local independent butcher shop.  Price per pound for everything - custom cut, double wrapped, and frozen - will be below supermarket hamburger price.

We just did that. And I plan to continue in the future. We like the meat, and know the whole foodchain of this beef. We're in a lower cost state so our price was $5.30 or so per pound.

jnw

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Pork Butt is $1.48/lb and Boneless Whole Pork Loin is $1.78/lb -- both by the case at Same's Club.

We eat more of that these days than beef.   We slice up the pork loin thin for jerky, pho-like asian soup as well for mongolian stir fry.   We also use the pork loin for boneless chops.   Ground pork (from Pork Butt) is great for meatloaf (mixed 50/50 with beef), great for chorizo, italian sausage and other susages etc.   Pork Butt also makes great stew meat.  BBQ pulled pork butt is insanely delicious.

roomtempmayo

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This latest report shows gas and energy products and the price of used vehicles responsible for a large majority of inflation.

CBS posted a story this morning that casually mentioned gas price increases costing a typical family an extra $2000 this year: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gas-prices-gas-tax-holiday-where-gas-prices-are-lowest/

Which prompted me to ask the obvious question, How flipping much do people drive?! 

Summary of the federal data from KBB here: https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/average-miles-driven-per-year/

The top line answer is 14,263 miles.  No, not per household.  That's per driver.  39 miles every single day of the year for every single person with a driver's license.

But it gets worse.  For my demographic (men aged 34-54) it's almost 19,000 miles per year.  52 miles per day without fail or vacation.  No days off.  Oof.

And what happens if statehouses hear the anguished cries of these motorists and have a gas tax holiday?  If Maryland is any indicator, they buy more gas and drive more miles (see CBS story above).

Either all the complaining about gas prices is crocodile tears, or people have a tragic inability to update their behavior as circumstances change.

SpaceCow

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This latest report shows gas and energy products and the price of used vehicles responsible for a large majority of inflation.

CBS posted a story this morning that casually mentioned gas price increases costing a typical family an extra $2000 this year: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gas-prices-gas-tax-holiday-where-gas-prices-are-lowest/

Which prompted me to ask the obvious question, How flipping much do people drive?! 

Summary of the federal data from KBB here: https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/average-miles-driven-per-year/

The top line answer is 14,263 miles.  No, not per household.  That's per driver.  39 miles every single day of the year for every single person with a driver's license.

But it gets worse.  For my demographic (men aged 34-54) it's almost 19,000 miles per year.  52 miles per day without fail or vacation.  No days off.  Oof.

And what happens if statehouses hear the anguished cries of these motorists and have a gas tax holiday?  If Maryland is any indicator, they buy more gas and drive more miles (see CBS story above).

Either all the complaining about gas prices is crocodile tears, or people have a tragic inability to update their behavior as circumstances change.

We Americans have an uncanny sense of entitlement when it comes to low gasoline prices.

stoaX

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This latest report shows gas and energy products and the price of used vehicles responsible for a large majority of inflation.

CBS posted a story this morning that casually mentioned gas price increases costing a typical family an extra $2000 this year: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gas-prices-gas-tax-holiday-where-gas-prices-are-lowest/

Which prompted me to ask the obvious question, How flipping much do people drive?! 

Summary of the federal data from KBB here: https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/average-miles-driven-per-year/

The top line answer is 14,263 miles.  No, not per household.  That's per driver.  39 miles every single day of the year for every single person with a driver's license.

But it gets worse.  For my demographic (men aged 34-54) it's almost 19,000 miles per year.  52 miles per day without fail or vacation.  No days off.  Oof.

And what happens if statehouses hear the anguished cries of these motorists and have a gas tax holiday?  If Maryland is any indicator, they buy more gas and drive more miles (see CBS story above).

Either all the complaining about gas prices is crocodile tears, or people have a tragic inability to update their behavior as circumstances change.

We Americans have an uncanny sense of entitlement when it comes to low gasoline prices.

One reason the price of gas gets outsized attention is because it's highly visible and gas from Shell is not substantially different from gas from Exxon or 7-11. 

Also almost everything you buy has some element of the price of fuel in it.  So increasing gas prices make people suspect that the prices of other things will go up.

jim555

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NY might give a $250 check for all registered drivers for gas price relief, but it is still being decided.  That would be great for me as I hardly drive.

Just Joe

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That's a big part of our friend circle right now. Drive here, drive there, meet us somewhere for fun and spend money. We miss careful COVID gatherings at our house or their houses for a beer and something tasty on the patio or around the firepit.

DW and I carpool about 20 miles per day unless the teenager has a social event. Then our mileage doubles or triples b/c trip to town to drop off, and trip to town to pick up. This too will pass. EBike weather is upon us.

jrhampt

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My spouse is looking pretty smart right now for pushing us to install solar panels and a heat pump last year.  I WFH and don't drive much since I can walk to lots of stuff, but I do kind of wish I had bought that 14k prius prime back in 2020 since now there are none to be had at that price.

wageslave23

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This latest report shows gas and energy products and the price of used vehicles responsible for a large majority of inflation.

CBS posted a story this morning that casually mentioned gas price increases costing a typical family an extra $2000 this year: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gas-prices-gas-tax-holiday-where-gas-prices-are-lowest/

Which prompted me to ask the obvious question, How flipping much do people drive?! 

Summary of the federal data from KBB here: https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/average-miles-driven-per-year/

The top line answer is 14,263 miles.  No, not per household.  That's per driver.  39 miles every single day of the year for every single person with a driver's license.

But it gets worse.  For my demographic (men aged 34-54) it's almost 19,000 miles per year.  52 miles per day without fail or vacation.  No days off.  Oof.

And what happens if statehouses hear the anguished cries of these motorists and have a gas tax holiday?  If Maryland is any indicator, they buy more gas and drive more miles (see CBS story above).

Either all the complaining about gas prices is crocodile tears, or people have a tragic inability to update their behavior as circumstances change.

Yeah big picture, I don't think an extra dollar for gallon of gas is a big deal.  But its one of the only everyday things that people buy that the price can jump 30% overnight.  I think people don't account for the gas expense when they decide to live where they live or drive to places for recreation.  If they drive to a national park, they think its free and don't figure in the cost of gas.  Or driving to visit grandma on the weekends.  Or decide to buy a house 20 miles away from their work because then they can afford a bigger house.  I do feel sorry for the people that work in high priced areas and aren't compensated enough to live nearby.  They have no other option than to live where they can afford to and then commute and pay the higher gas costs.

jinga nation

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Co-worker is looking at selling his big ol F-150 Raptor, and asked to work from home 2 days/week, on a contract that requires us to be at customer site. he cited high gas prices.
his other 2 cars are also gas guzzlers. Told him to work more hours on his days in the office, and less at home. we can get audited at any time, don't want one person's gas costs problem to become a contractual issue.
Meanwhile the good thing about driving a 50+ mpg hybrid is that a 25-35% increase in gas price barely affects my mustachian family. Bought a new model from stealership in Aug 2019, they couldn't sell them as gas price were low and everyone and their mother wanted SUVs and trucks, and the 2020 models were coming in 60-90 days.
My 9 yo has apparently been keeping track (silently) of how much I pay for gas. She was surprised I paid over $30 for 8 gallons for my hybrid. "Gas costs that much, dad? You used to to pay less than $20 in December."
Had to explain how the RUS invasion of UKR impacts gas prices (and then had to explain how/why RUS invaded).

@SpaceCow right on! I've lived and visited several countries. Barring a few middle-east oil sheikhdoms, gas at $4.20 is still cheaper than in most countries.

PhrugalPhan

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I guess I am not Mustachian any more.  I had always said I would get a nice car once I retired.  Well I am less than a year away and this past weekend I got a new Tesla.  Now my car payment is almost identical to my old house payment (paid off in 2011), but at least this is for at most only 5 years (I hope to pay off much sooner).

I have been charging at home these past days and figuring out my local electric charge per kilowatt.  Sooo, if I calculated this right my car can be charged for over 300 miles of driving anywhere from $3.64 to $6.29.  I'm not driving much now, though this may change in the coming months, and once I retire next Mar-Apr who knows how much I'll do.

Syonyk

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I guess I am not Mustachian any more.

Doesn't Pete own a Tesla now, for his... somehow proving something or another, exploding fountain of luxury something something?

Quote
Now my car payment is almost identical to my old house payment (paid off in 2011), but at least this is for at most only 5 years (I hope to pay off much sooner).

Um.  Sorry, what?  Damn.  That's nuts.  I assume you're not going to share the numbers on that payment, because "house payments" and "car payments" aren't supposed to be alike, even with a shorter term.  $60k?  $100k?  No idea what your house payments were, but that's still an obscene amount of money for a car, IMO.

Quote
I have been charging at home these past days and figuring out my local electric charge per kilowatt.  Sooo, if I calculated this right my car can be charged for over 300 miles of driving anywhere from $3.64 to $6.29.  I'm not driving much now, though this may change in the coming months, and once I retire next Mar-Apr who knows how much I'll do.

At my normal real world estimate of 3mi/kWh (so 100kWh that range), that's $0.036/kWh to $0.063/kWh?  Douglass County or something?  I suppose that would make sense, cheap house, but... seriously.

Just for sport, do the math on how driving a used Prius or something would work out to, even if you fully carbon offset with Climeworks all your emissions.

========

Still like our Volt.  It's a decade old, doing just fine, and covers common case miles dirt cheap, especially now that we're on solar.  At my estimated $0.04/kWh for lifetime solar production, it works out to around $0.40/gal gas (10kWh used and a gallon of gas are close enough in practical range to just handwave them together).

And solar was $1.50/W for DIY ground mount, before incentives.

I really need to get some of my ebike chassis rolling again, though.  They make a Volt look staggeringly expensive to run!

windytrail

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This machine absolutely crushes inflation (and rocks!). I'm getting 20-30 miles per burrito depending on the size of the mountain.