Mustachians and early death

[Valencia de Valera]

I love "Then I won't live to regret it." I always want to ask these people, why are you going to work every day and not out having a good time if you honestly think you should spend every last penny in your pocket today in case you die tomorrow?

My family's favorite is "You deserve it" and I'm not sure what to come back with for that one, I find it so grating and awful. I don't think that they're thinking about the meaning of the word "deserve" when they say it, they just want to convince me to spend my money because they suspect that I have it. So they can spend vicariously, or they honestly think it would make me happier, or what, I don't know, but they get really concerned that I haven't bought enough crap lately.

[LiveLean]

I look at this differently.

My mom died at 51 when I was 21 and three grandparents didn't see 60. So I have lived debt-free (save for an occasional mortgage, later paid off) to live semi-FIRE as a self-employed person who enjoys my work and makes my own schedule. Now that I'm 45, FIRE is within reach by 51, if not earlier.

So I guess I've staked the middle ground, living MMM but still designing the life I want on the road to FIRE, realizing life is too short to work for the man or live in an area I didn't deem desirable just because that's where my W2 job was.

[DoubleDown]

Also what those work colleagues don't get is that saving to be FI is not some long period of deprivation followed by finally attaining the brass ring. First, there should be no feeling of deprivation. Second, every single day you are gaining in financial strength which provides you with all kinds of options (like MMM's article on riding the wave of financial strength). Yes, the pinnacle is being completely FI and no longer needing to even work for a living. But along the way, being debt-free is one kind of financial strength many don't enjoy, having enough money to leverage when needed for certain kinds of purchases (like buying a house to live in or a rental property) is further strength, having FU money is even more strength, and so on. Imagine if those colleagues realized that by accumulating a large stash you are making $10k, 25k, 50k+ annually in passive income alone.

It's ironic that as you get richer, you find that you could afford those things the colleagues talk about without blinking an eye, but often you just don't care to. Then if you decide to make a purchase -- even a large one -- it's no big deal, no hand-wringing over how to finance it, and no guilt or remorse.

[Sjalabais]

This issue of "you spend so I feel richer" is interesting. I just told my uncle - hospital medical chief, 57 - that we paid off our house loan. I'm a sociological major and followed my interests into a government job, badly paid. He laughed at first, didn't believe me, then went on to say that they are so deeply in debt that he has to work full time until his pension age and "nothing surprising can happen in between". He's almost twice my age, it was revealing. I felt massively richer after that phone call than before. Sandwich lunches paid off!

[minority_finance_mo]

Them:    "You could die tomorrow?"
Me:        "Maybe, but statistically I have a lot longer to go"
Them:    "But what if you do?"
Me:        "All the more reason to not have to work tomorrow."
Them:    "But what if you do?"
Me:         "My DW and kids won't have to worry about finances, and that gives me a lot of comfort too."

You should just start with that last line. People are much less likely to argue with you if you're perceived as doing something out of selflessness. Who is going to tell you not to worry about your family's future, so you can have X shitty thing now?

[ender]

The fundamentally false assumption you are making is that saving money is painful/problematic and negatively affects me now and that by doing so I am worse today than I would be if I spent 100% of my income.

I am sure I could enjoy my life now more if I spent more (hello ER with a 20% WR!). But the reality is that more spending will have very minimal actual benefit to me even know and that is ignoring the longer term benefits which are associated with saving.

[The_path_less_taken]

"You know, I believe you are correct! I do 'deserve' a new car. When are you buying me one?"



Although I think that anyone who does NOT live today as though it were their last day on earth, is a fool. Because one day...it will be.

In my case, that fosters a 'take no prisoners' attitude. A manager at work proposed we fuck with a prospective client via email...I looked him in the eye and said, "You truly are an evil bastard."

[4tify]

I live in LA and drive a 10 year old Civic. My peers are always telling me I deserve a new car and that my image would improve etc. And I laugh at them every time.

My short answer is: "while you are working to enslave yourself, I'm working for freedom." That usually shuts them up.

One of the premises of this question (as a couple people noted) is that money buys happiness. And yes it's true that money can bring us some wonderful things, like leisurely summer nights with our loved ones, grilled quail with polenta, and even a new Cadillac ATS. The larger question is how do we choose to spend our money? For those worrying about sudden death, what could be more valuable than buying time? And isn't that really what FI is about?

I do feel it's important to allow ourselves some luxuries along the way to FI because no one does know when a wrong turn will turn out to be our last one. I recently spent $400 on a kick ass grill that has made my summer all the tastier. I get to enjoy the wonderful food it helps me prepare, and sometimes share that with my friends & loved ones. Four hundred bucks well spent, and in some circles a totally unnecessary expenditure. But I'll die happier today knowing I did so. AND, I'm still on track to early retirement if I so chose. Best of both worlds! :)

[MrsPete]

This isn't a topic that comes up frequently in my life, but on the off chance that it does, I tend to say something along these lines:  Have you seen my family?  Do you really think I won't see 100? 

[kite]

This isn't a topic that comes up frequently in my life [/i]

I was wondering if it was just me or if it's an age thing.  But overt pressure to spend from peers & colleagues is pretty much non existent in my day to day life. And it's not at all that I'm surrounded by mustachians.  I work on Wall Street where plenty of wealth is on display in shoes, jewelry, keyrings, etc but no one actually says "you deserve it."   Who are these people who concern themselves with what anyone else spends for lunch or for a car?   Talking about what you've spent is really showing that you're just not getting it. 

[EscapeVelocity2020]

A couple other ways to think about this depend on where you are in your FI journey.  In my 20's, I did willingly deprive myself.  It wasn't all that difficult, having been a college bum not all that long ago, and I knew that early career money was far too valuable to piss away on a car and a house (and all the furnishing stuff a house entails - I literally slept on the floor of my first apartment for about 2 years, and then finally broke down and bought a twin bed).

Once you get FU money built up, you can re-establish a bit of balance (like eat out a bit more, or whatever your hierarchy of splurginess is).  Nothing worse than to have relentlessly deprived yourself while the stock market wipes out money that you really wanted to spend for some basic wants that now border on needs so as not to become a miserly old hermit.

Then you close in on FI and you can reassure those folks that you are actually 'spending millions of dollars' on retiring early, because that is basically what you do when you forego the peak earning years and benefits of full time work.  Sure, you can afford it, but it puts it in perspective.

Being sure of yourself and your goals, throughout this evolution, is the key to addressing a & b - nobody 'deserves' to spend money that they'll need in the future and you are living an optimal life throughout the process (as long as you adjust the deprivation in line with how bad you want FU/FI, or what you want FI to be in terms of spending).

[Sjalabais]

Who are these people who concern themselves with what anyone else spends for lunch or for a car?

As a fresh student, being observed with a lukewarm beer was always an opportunity for people to pick on my spending choices. Here in Norway, a lot of students easily spend 150$ on one night out (that's 1 night). Today, it's people who ask me for car advice (I'm a car guy) and who then tell me that "once you're in the loan, buying new cars all the time doesn't cost you any new money". I can only react with: "Whaaat?", before I try to be humble and kind, not to trample on decisions other people have already made. We know couples who buy houses at 4-5 times their yearly earning's value, then a new car, and then a freaking cabin in the countryside for 3-400000$. I often feel that I am surrounded by financial illiterates, but it might be just those people who flash and talk about their decisions. My perception is that being a slave to your bank your entire working life is the absolutely most common route to go down.

[MrsCoolCat]

b) You could be dead tomorrow.

And what if you're not? You gonna work until your 80?