Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)

[fuzzy math]

I'm in the process of rolling over my old 401k to my Vanguard IRA.  The funds were withdrawn yesterday and will take a week to get to Vanguard according to the confirmation notice I received.  So for the next week my net worth balance on Personal Capital will be almost 600k off.  This is seriously f-ing with my financial ocd.  Here's hoping the market doesn't spike for some crazy reason before I can get the money reinvested.

Even worse there will be a huge dip in your graph and PC will double count that as money saved and you'll have to issue an adjustment!!! LOL

[dcheesi]

I read a neat suggestion once to evaluate how much is actually necessary: use less and less unless the dishes stay a bit dirty and then use just a bit more :)

That works for laundry detergent too.

Before you find yourself reducing quantity of laundry detergent, check if the clothes themselves need to be washed.  Most people wash clothes and sheets unnecessarily - ie, before they exhibit noticeable smell.  If you're washing clothes that aren't dirty, you can get away with using much less detergent . . . but still end up being worse for the environment.

I have little boys who pee the bed regularly. I put a little baking soda in there with the regular detergent to get rid of the smell.

I will confess to running the clothes dryer this week too. (Maybe this goes on the wall of shame???). We just moved from 2500sf house to 900sf apartment and everything was so jumbled that there was no room to set up the racks. It took me forever just to find the extra sheets. The complex does not allow clothes lines for whatever reason.

Ah, to live in a state with dry air...

I'm pretty sure that our clothes could hang outside for a week and never get dry here.

I normally hang dry about 2/3 of my clothes. Right now, only the stuff that simply can't go in the dryer. Humidity is fun. At least it's 80 with 80% humidity.

I once hung my clothes dry in Shanghai. They felt absolutely dry. I then packed them and flew to Canada the next day. Took my clothes out in Toronto, and they felt damp. Had to hang them for a day before they felt dry. That was my MPP. Sometimes I just wear the clothes even if they’re a bit damp. When it’s that humid, you’re likely sweating buckets anyway so your clothes are going to be damp anyway.

Our perception of "dampness" is really cobbled together from other sensations, including a sense of cold. So one thing that can happen is if the clothes were warm when you felt them in Shanghai, but cold in Toronto (maybe the bag spent time outside, or even from the un-conditioned cargo hold of the plane), then your perception of their moisture content might have been fooled one way or the other.

This is why touch-testing the dryness of clothes right out of the dryer can be misleading, too, since the residual warmth masks any lingering dampness there.

[dragoncar]

I'm in the process of rolling over my old 401k to my Vanguard IRA.  The funds were withdrawn yesterday and will take a week to get to Vanguard according to the confirmation notice I received.  So for the next week my net worth balance on Personal Capital will be almost 600k off.  This is seriously f-ing with my financial ocd.  Here's hoping the market doesn't spike for some crazy reason before I can get the money reinvested.

Just add a manual slush account to make corrections.  It won’t help for yesterday though you gotta be on top of that!

[MissNancyPryor]

MPP:  Having to inform and convince a loan underwriter how it is possible to live without W-2 income or monthly retirement payments from a 401K, pension, or SS.  They are unfamiliar with the idea that someone can live on taxable brokerage proceeds which I collect just one time per year in December and they don't see how it is possible that I have paid zero income tax on that fat FIRE annual withdrawal.   

Backstory-  I am setting up a home equity line of credit so I can tap a large sum on short notice without selling stock.  My house is debt free and is worth more than $600K; I asked for just a $100K line of credit.  My net worth is about $3M without the house, have a 820 credit score, and I have been with this credit union for more than 30 years.  The HELOC should be a no brainer.       

The loan officer and the back office underwriter are stumped.  They have no idea what verification paperwork to ask of me and we have had a few phone calls where I have explained FIRE and the 4% rule and that I live on less than 2% tax free.  They are fascinated, polite, and not uncooperative, but it is work on my part to explain how I manage to live without a Holy Paycheck, Giver of All Things.

I have suggested which paperwork might help them and they are having meetings about me.  They are unable to make a decision without some kind of massive internal consensus.  If my Interactive Brokers margin account was working like it should be I wouldn't bother (it isn't, I will add story to that separate thread when I know more).

Sigh.  It is hard to be weird.  You get it.     

I think it is on the pre-FIRE checklist for Mustachians to consider getting a HELOC set up before they leave work if they ever think they will want one, and I agree.  No creative thinking is required when you show up with a W-2.  On the other hand, maybe someone in the credit union is getting their eyes opened to the concept of FIRE this week and will come visit us one day.   

[Dollar Slice]

MPP:  Having to inform and convince a loan underwriter how it is possible to live without W-2 income or monthly retirement payments from a 401K, pension, or SS.  They are unfamiliar with the idea that someone can live on taxable brokerage proceeds which I collect just one time per year in December and they don't see how it is possible that I have paid zero income tax on that fat FIRE annual withdrawal.

Yeah. I needed a co-signer on something a few years back, and my retired mother, who is worth seven figures and has a modest pension on top of that, did not qualify to co-sign for it because she didn't have a "real" paycheck.  The worst case scenario would have been having to pay out ~$25k, and being a millionaire+ with a pension wasn't good enough to *co-sign* for it on top of my own net worth and paycheck. They explained that since she didn't have a real income, she could theoretically just spend all her money next week and then not have the money to back it up. They required me to find someone with a $120k+ salary.

[rantk81]

If it is a local credit union that is planning to keep the loan on their books, you might have a chance.  If they just resell all their loans, then it is very probable you will not meet the requirements and will be turned down.

Agree 100% about applying for any credit before one pulls the rip cord on the FIRE parachute.

IB margin rates for PRO are probably better than any HELOC you can get, so it might be better to get that straightened out instead, whatever the issue there is.  I’d be curious to hear why ;)

[MissNancyPryor]

@Dollar Slice

Classic.  The notion that ANY loan made could have circumstances change the moment after it is granted is apparently lost on them. 

Anyone can get a loan based on their paycheck and simply quit their job the following day-- this surely won't happen in their minds.   

But your mom is obvi going to head to Vegas and bleach through a cool mill on a girls' weekend, sure thing!  Whoop!

The Cult of the Holy Paycheck wins. 

I hope my credit union is smarter than that.

@rantk81 They don't sell their HELOCs, good news.       

[Dicey]

@Dollar Slice

Classic.  The notion that ANY loan made could have circumstances change the moment after it is granted is apparently lost on them. 

Anyone can get a loan based on their paycheck and simply quit their job the following day-- this surely won't happen in their minds.   

But your mom is obvi going to head to Vegas and bleach through a cool mill on a girls' weekend, sure thing!  Whoop!

The Cult of the Holy Paycheck wins. 

I hope my credit union is smarter than that.

@rantk81 They don't sell their HELOCs, good news.       

Based on your long-standing relationship with the CU, I'd cut out the middlemen and reach out directly to the CEO. That should get some results, especially if they carry their own paper.

[SwordGuy]

MPP:  Having to inform and convince a loan underwriter how it is possible to live without W-2 income or monthly retirement payments from a 401K, pension, or SS.  They are unfamiliar with the idea that someone can live on taxable brokerage proceeds which I collect just one time per year in December and they don't see how it is possible that I have paid zero income tax on that fat FIRE annual withdrawal.   

I put my experience at getting a new mortgage after FIRE in this thread.   While it's not a HELOC it references approved US government guidelines for issuing a mortgage based on asset portfolios and not paychecks.   I hope it helps you out.

I have a vague idea that you aren't in the US, but even then, it may give you terms to search for in your own country or, at the least, proof that the idea isn't simply crazy.       I pointed out to our mortgage broker that if a lot of our wealth was just sitting in a checking account it would be possible we had just won a lottery and would blow it all -- but since a huge percentage of it was in IRAs and 401Ks, that simply could not be true.   You just can't get that kind of balance in those accounts overnight.

Well, it turns out from the news that you can if you're extremely rich and defraud the government with a faulty stock valuation scheme for stocks you put into the account.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/real-estate-and-landlording/morgages-after-fire/

[MissNancyPryor]

I am in the Northwest USA.  I should have a resolution early next week and if they haven't got their act together I will be taking it further.  Logic dictates this should be zero problem for them and it strikes me as odd (and is a silly Mustachian People Problem) that they are fumbling around at all.  I feel like some weird unicorn, do people really never walk away from paychecks?  Of course they do.   

I will give an update once this is done.     

[SwordGuy]

I am in the Northwest USA.  I should have a resolution early next week and if they haven't got their act together I will be taking it further.  Logic dictates this should be zero problem for them and it strikes me as odd (and is a silly Mustachian People Problem) that they are fumbling around at all.  I feel like some weird unicorn, do people really never walk away from paychecks?  Of course they do.   

I will give an update once this is done.     

I had to read the Fannie May and Freddie Mac guidelines and craft a regular withdrawal plan before I could get them to approve it.   They were fumbling around in the dark and lost.   Once I did that things went just fine.   

[Freedomin5]

Jars of good jam made from real fruit usually cost $6 a jar. One jar usually lasts us about a month. To save money, I decided to start making my own jam. I spent $4 and made three jars. Two days later, and I am down to two jars because apparently we eat a lot more jam when it’s homemade using fresh fruit. I’m not sure I’m going to save any money here.

[AMandM]

Jars of good jam made from real fruit usually cost $6 a jar. One jar usually lasts us about a month. To save money, I decided to start making my own jam. I spent $4 and made three jars. Two days later, and I am down to two jars because apparently we eat a lot more jam when it’s homemade using fresh fruit. I’m not sure I’m going to save any money here.

I have had the same effect with fresh homemade bread.

[LennStar]

Jars of good jam made from real fruit usually cost $6 a jar. One jar usually lasts us about a month. To save money, I decided to start making my own jam. I spent $4 and made three jars. Two days later, and I am down to two jars because apparently we eat a lot more jam when it’s homemade using fresh fruit. I’m not sure I’m going to save any money here.

I have had the same effect with fresh homemade bread.

At least teh piggy bank around your waist will get real fatty!

[Alternatepriorities]

Jars of good jam made from real fruit usually cost $6 a jar. One jar usually lasts us about a month. To save money, I decided to start making my own jam. I spent $4 and made three jars. Two days later, and I am down to two jars because apparently we eat a lot more jam when it’s homemade using fresh fruit. I’m not sure I’m going to save any money here.

I have had the same effect with fresh homemade bread.

At least teh piggy bank around your waist will get real fatty!

I’ve had both of these problems with making bread. DW is good at saving berries we pick and any homemade jam though.

[MissNancyPryor]

I am in the Northwest USA.  I should have a resolution early next week and if they haven't got their act together I will be taking it further.  Logic dictates this should be zero problem for them and it strikes me as odd (and is a silly Mustachian People Problem) that they are fumbling around at all.  I feel like some weird unicorn, do people really never walk away from paychecks?  Of course they do.   

I will give an update once this is done.     

As usual my worrying is all for naught.  They called and approved me first thing this morning.  They offered $200K without my asking for it which is probably why I have stayed with them for 30+ years. 

My MPP was only a P for a few days after all.   It was anxiety on my part when the credit union was flopping around about my weirdness but it is all good now.

Kids, get your HELOCs set up pre-FIRE.  Don't be like Nancy.     

[Sibley]

Glad it all worked out. Deep breath!

[jinga nation]

too many mangoes.

TS Elsa is bearing down on us today; picked 30-ish mango on Saturday to take to a friend's house for a football/futbol/soccer viewing party (2 Euro and 2 Copa America matches). Then picked 150 on Sunday. A few more Monday and today. Prior to the holiday weekend, must have picked some 100 over the past month. Had to get most of them picked on Sunday otherwise Elsa would fling them far and wide and what a waste. And I had help from my dad.

The 150 mango haul got split, my dad took half to distribute to family friends. Going to make my 4th batch of mango pickle during the storm. And share some with a few neighbors. And eat the rest.

We don't freeze them, this variety changes taste and texture if frozen. Best eaten slightly raw with a nice tart and sweet balance.

This is the first year the tree yielded fruit. Next year will be crazy, and we have a smaller tree (which gave about 30 mango this year).

[BicycleB]

I am in the Northwest USA.  I should have a resolution early next week and if they haven't got their act together I will be taking it further.  Logic dictates this should be zero problem for them and it strikes me as odd (and is a silly Mustachian People Problem) that they are fumbling around at all.  I feel like some weird unicorn, do people really never walk away from paychecks?  Of course they do.   

I will give an update once this is done.     

As usual my worrying is all for naught.  They called and approved me first thing this morning.  They offered $200K without my asking for it which is probably why I have stayed with them for 30+ years. 

My MPP was only a P for a few days after all.   It was anxiety on my part when the credit union was flopping around about my weirdness but it is all good now.

Kids, get your HELOCs set up pre-FIRE.  Don't be like Nancy.   

Yay!

[GreenSheep]

too many mangoes.

TS Elsa is bearing down on us today; picked 30-ish mango on Saturday to take to a friend's house for a football/futbol/soccer viewing party (2 Euro and 2 Copa America matches). Then picked 150 on Sunday. A few more Monday and today. Prior to the holiday weekend, must have picked some 100 over the past month. Had to get most of them picked on Sunday otherwise Elsa would fling them far and wide and what a waste. And I had help from my dad.

The 150 mango haul got split, my dad took half to distribute to family friends. Going to make my 4th batch of mango pickle during the storm. And share some with a few neighbors. And eat the rest.

We don't freeze them, this variety changes taste and texture if frozen. Best eaten slightly raw with a nice tart and sweet balance.

This is the first year the tree yielded fruit. Next year will be crazy, and we have a smaller tree (which gave about 30 mango this year).

So, so, so jealous! Mangoes are my favorite fruit, and it's just not quite warm enough here to grow them (or not enough hours of sunlight? something like that). Hope things go all right with Elsa, though.

[dragoncar]

Is mango wine a thing? 

[Morning Glory]

You could get a dehydrator. I love dried mango!!

[Dicey]

I am in the Northwest USA.  I should have a resolution early next week and if they haven't got their act together I will be taking it further.  Logic dictates this should be zero problem for them and it strikes me as odd (and is a silly Mustachian People Problem) that they are fumbling around at all.  I feel like some weird unicorn, do people really never walk away from paychecks?  Of course they do.   

I will give an update once this is done.     

As usual my worrying is all for naught.  They called and approved me first thing this morning.  They offered $200K without my asking for it which is probably why I have stayed with them for 30+ years. 

My MPP was only a P for a few days after all.   It was anxiety on my part when the credit union was flopping around about my weirdness but it is all good now.

Kids, get your HELOCs set up pre-FIRE.  Don't be like Nancy.   

Hooray!

[GuitarStv]

Is mango wine a thing?

Yes, I was first exposed to it the first time my son doesn't get the last mango.

[Fomerly known as something]

My house is slow to sell because it is the smallest house in the neighborhood.

[Sibley]

My house is slow to sell because it is the smallest house in the neighborhood.

Smallest house in the neighborhood + not selling = asking too much.

Really, not selling = asking too much.

[dragoncar]

My house is slow to sell because it is the smallest house in the neighborhood.

Smallest house in the neighborhood + not selling = asking too much.

Really, not selling = asking too much.

[Gerard]

too many mangoes.

Years back there was a reader profile in Organic Gardening magazine about a woman who lived in Florida with a yard full of mango trees, near the Ringling Brothers Circus winter facility. She made compost out of mangoes and elephant poop.

[Fomerly known as something]

My house is slow to sell because it is the smallest house in the neighborhood.

Smallest house in the neighborhood + not selling = asking too much.

Really, not selling = asking too much.

Well yes but, I technically have a work guaranteed offer so will sell on August 18 no matter what.  Guaranteed offer is within 2% of asking, still getting lots of showings, I’m mostly tired of living in a house on the market.  I’m also tired of the feedback on size, it is smaller than normal for the area, but that is evident on the listing SQ footage.

[dragoncar]

I was thinking more that higher price = slower to sell, but that doesn’t mean overpriced.  It means it’s priced to sell slowly to the right buyer

And yes I think it’s ridiculous when I see a house that’s been on the market for a year without a price drop.  In my area motivated sellers drop the price every few weeks until they sell

[talltexan]

They're also good eatin' -

In pod we trust.

Reminds me of Ramona Quimby, playing Hansel and Gretel, sticking her rubber doll into her sister's birthday cake baking in the oven.

Ah, yes, I remember her and Beezus cackling over "Hansel is sooo hot right now!"

[pasadenafr]

I was on FaceTime with my sister this morning and told her I was happy because today's paycheck maxed out my mega backdoor for the year (I maxed out my 401(k) in March). She looked at me like I was an alien just landed from Mars and told me I was crazy - both because I saved all that money and because it made me happy.

Then she said it was great because she was counting on  me to pay for her luxury nursing home in 40 years 😂

[Visitation]

I was on FaceTime with my sister this morning and told her I was happy because today's paycheck maxed out my mega backdoor for the year (I maxed out my 401(k) in March). She looked at me like I was an alien just landed from Mars and told me I was crazy - both because I saved all that money and because it made me happy.

Then she said it was great because she was counting on  me to pay for her luxury nursing home in 40 years

Do you get a company match on your 401k?  If so, you may be leaving money on the table. 

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

[markbike528CBX]

MPP:
My capital gains harvesting isn't going to plan.
Sold at 75 , now at 72, so I'm missing out on 3 dollars of capital gains harvest in the future.

[whines, stomps foot, temper tantrum worthy of a 5 year old]

[DaMa]

MPP:
My capital gains harvesting isn't going to plan.
Sold at 75 , now at 72, so I'm missing out on 3 dollars of capital gains harvest in the future.

[whines, stomps foot, temper tantrum worthy of a 5 year old]

I just LOL-ed!  Then thought how much I love this forum, because there is no one in my real life who would understand this much less think it funny.

[StartingEarly]

I have to put actual effort into thinking about making sure I'm getting checks for things when possible so I can move money into savings without additional paperwork and other issues with the bank from depositing too much cash regularly. Right now I have way too much of my money in physical cash due to this issue.

[pasadenafr]

I was on FaceTime with my sister this morning and told her I was happy because today's paycheck maxed out my mega backdoor for the year (I maxed out my 401(k) in March). She looked at me like I was an alien just landed from Mars and told me I was crazy - both because I saved all that money and because it made me happy.

Then she said it was great because she was counting on  me to pay for her luxury nursing home in 40 years

Do you get a company match on your 401k?  If so, you may be leaving money on the table. 

Yes, it's a % of contributions. I get the full match irrespective of how many paychecks it takes to max out.

[Steeze]

I have to put actual effort into thinking about making sure I'm getting checks for things when possible so I can move money into savings without additional paperwork and other issues with the bank from depositing too much cash regularly. Right now I have way too much of my money in physical cash due to this issue.

Nothing worse than having piles of cash everywhere and no where to put it. Not comfortable to sleep on, smells funny, gets moldy when it’s piled up, it’s awkward when people come over. Just make sure the floors are solid before you stack too much in a single bedroom. Might need to reinforce the floor.

[Sibley]

I have to put actual effort into thinking about making sure I'm getting checks for things when possible so I can move money into savings without additional paperwork and other issues with the bank from depositing too much cash regularly. Right now I have way too much of my money in physical cash due to this issue.

What are you doing that generates so much cash?

[zolotiyeruki]

DW and I opted out of the advance child tax credit payments--she a week ago, I about a week before that.  Yesterday, we got the first check anyway.  Grrr.  Now we have to keep it in the bank account until next April.

Although, I suppose it's the government giving us an interest-free loan, for a change...

[Taran Wanderer]

I looked for how to opt out, and it was a royal pain to do so, plus DW would have to opt out also. We got the first payment. I’m giving up. We will just take all six payments and settle up before next April 15. Why we are getting a credit when we do not appear to be eligible is a whole ‘nother issue. Oh well, MPP’s…

[Trifle]

I had an appointment yesterday and chose to put on a dress for it.  My 15 year old son took one look at me and doubled over laughing.  He said “You look hilarious!”

I didn’t take offense.  Because of Coronavirus and FIRE, he hasn’t seen me in anything except jeans or overalls for over two years.  Great MPP to have.  (But I will definitely be working with him on his social niceties. :/)

[Sibley]

I had an appointment yesterday and chose to put on a dress for it.  My 15 year old son took one look at me and doubled over laughing.  He said “You look hilarious!”

I didn’t take offense.  Because of Coronavirus and FIRE, he hasn’t seen me in anything except jeans or overalls for over two years.  Great MPP to have.  (But I will definitely be working with him on his social niceties. :/)

The 15 year old daughter of one of my coworkers is doing some filing/boring admin work for the office this summer. I'm having a blast listening to her - she swings between very childish and very adult behavior and sometimes the craziest things come out of her mouth. She's a good kid overall. Social niceties are definitely in the works for her at times too!

[ixtap]

Thought about starting an August buy nothing thread, then remembered that the stove we have been waiting on since January is finally back in stock at some stores and we may be buying one if our local store has it.

[BicycleB]

I have to put actual effort into thinking about making sure I'm getting checks for things when possible so I can move money into savings without additional paperwork and other issues with the bank from depositing too much cash regularly. Right now I have way too much of my money in physical cash due to this issue.

What are you doing that generates so much cash?

Based on the screen name, the early bird is getting the worm

[nessness]

I have to put actual effort into thinking about making sure I'm getting checks for things when possible so I can move money into savings without additional paperwork and other issues with the bank from depositing too much cash regularly. Right now I have way too much of my money in physical cash due to this issue.

What are you doing that generates so much cash?

Based on the screen name, the early bird is getting the worm

Lol. He's said in other posts that he's a professional gambler.

[Sibley]

I have to put actual effort into thinking about making sure I'm getting checks for things when possible so I can move money into savings without additional paperwork and other issues with the bank from depositing too much cash regularly. Right now I have way too much of my money in physical cash due to this issue.

What are you doing that generates so much cash?

Based on the screen name, the early bird is getting the worm

Lol. He's said in other posts that he's a professional gambler.

Oh duh, I think I knew that. I don't always look at usernames!

Well, pay for stuff in cash, that will help. Can you buy money orders with cash and then deposit the money order? Also, ask the casino/etc can send the money electronically rather than paying in cash. If that works some of the time that would help.

[dragoncar]

I have to put actual effort into thinking about making sure I'm getting checks for things when possible so I can move money into savings without additional paperwork and other issues with the bank from depositing too much cash regularly. Right now I have way too much of my money in physical cash due to this issue.

What are you doing that generates so much cash?

Based on the screen name, the early bird is getting the worm

Lol. He's said in other posts that he's a professional gambler.

Oh duh, I think I knew that. I don't always look at usernames!

Well, pay for stuff in cash, that will help. Can you buy money orders with cash and then deposit the money order? Also, ask the casino/etc can send the money electronically rather than paying in cash. If that works some of the time that would help.

Have you considered opening a business account?  They are far more likely to expect cash deposits and the monthly fee is probably insignificant if you are depositing over $10k regularly

Business accounts are available for sole proprietorships, and you can just use your personal SSN without an ITIN

[Fomerly known as something]

I’m moving and downsizing.  My current MPP, getting rid of stuff (namely my guest room furniture aka my bedroom set from when I was 4, and 2 chairs and a sofa).  It’s hard work to give things away/for a nominal fee.  It’s all still in pretty decent shape some ware and tear but dang someone please that my stuff.

[dcheesi]

I recently succumbed to peer pressure and bought a Fitbit only to find that it wouldn't work with my older phone or computer (nor will it work as a standalone device). It had been so long since I bought electronics that I didn't think to consider compatability, since I thought that the thing was just a pedometer. I briefly considered the idea of upgrading my tech to allow me to use the gizmo, but balked at the cost and hassle. Fortunately the store manager took pity on me and allowed me to return it despite a policy against returns on electronics (which I also feel is a win for being nice to retail staff). I'll stick to my tried and true method of tracking my exercise and just stopping when tired.

IIRC there is at least one model that's designed to be more standalone, but then you're still limited to doing everything on that little tiny screen. So maybe not worth it for you?

I got my fitbit as part of a concerted fitness plan a few years ago. But since then my involvement in that program has waned. TBH I mostly keep mine around as cheap smartwatch; it tells time, and buzzes me when I have a call, alarm, or text message (and displays the latter) --useful if you're prone to losing track of your phone like I am. But if your phone doesn't work with it, then all of that is moot.