Mustachian Mental Maintenance Techniques

[LD_TAndK]

Are there any particular activities, mantras, blog posts, videos, etc. you go to when you notice yourself sliding into consumer suckerdom? Have you found a good way to get inspired and back on track?

Personally I find even a single night in the woods backpacking can reset my thinking back to frugal badassity.

[Bradlinc4]

Reading these forums is very helpful for me not to lose focus.

[GuitarStv]

My desire to buy stuff tends to really drop away when I'm engaged in things I love to do.

For example, I play guitar.  There are always pretty, new guitars out there.  But once you've got a decent one, buying a new guitar won't make you sound any better.  Only practice and skill on the instrument will.  The more that I practice and play, the more that this is really driven home.  Same with cycling, wrestling, boxing, writing, etc.  The more engaged I am in the task, the less I care about the tools (provided they work).  Because at the end of the day you just want to gain the skill - not buy the fanciest training aid.

For me personally, it seems that the desire to buy and consume things goes way up when I have little time to do the things that I love.  Then I want to buy a new guitar because I need to get the most out of the short period of time I'm playing, I need to buy the fancier bike because otherwise I'll be slower than all those guys who have the time to train regularly, etc.

[draco44]

Watch clips from an episode of "Hoarders" or one of Ronald L. Banks' YouTube videos on minimalism.

Go for a walk and enjoy nature. Or even just look out the window and really appreciate the view.

Take out a possession you already own that hasn't been used in a while, use it, and remember you are grateful for having it.

Reframe your choices as working towards something that matters more than whatever temptation you are facing. You aren't depriving yourself of thing X, you are actively making progress towards goal Y.

Clean/fix/polish something, and realize it already meets your needs. And that if you buy something new it would be one more timesuck for you to maintain.

Just wait a while. Tell yourself you ARE allowed to buy things, but only after X amount of wait time. Many passing desires won't make the cut.

As an example of the last two items, on the rare occasion I think about buying new shoes, I have an informal rule that before I buy another pair, I will first take time to clean/polish the shoes I already have. I can't remember when I last bought shoes. And I like making what I have last.

Read or hear about people in more difficult circumstances than yourself, and practice being grateful for your current situation.

[CodingHare]

Reread Marie Kondo's book.

Meditate.  Makes it easier to identify (a) when you start justifying wanting to buy something and (b) why you are doing it, IE boredom, trying to spark happiness to mask an issue in your life, etc.

Spend time on your existing hobbies with the materials you already have.

Go to the library and check out some books.

Buy quality instead of cheap plastic crap.  Usually better for the environment and more expensive, so you really have to justify it to yourself.

[WSUCoug1994]

A lot of great advice above.  I put a 72-hour hold period on any purchase over $50.  98% of the time I conclude it was an emotional want and not a logical need and I move on.  I actually keep everything I considered buying in an Amazon list - pretty embarrassing to see all of the things I thought I needed to purchase.  Just looking at that list helps me honestly.

[scottish]

My desire to buy stuff tends to really drop away when I'm engaged in things I love to do.

For example, I play guitar.  There are always pretty, new guitars out there.  But once you've got a decent one, buying a new guitar won't make you sound any better.  Only practice and skill on the instrument will.  The more that I practice and play, the more that this is really driven home.  Same with cycling, wrestling, boxing, writing, etc.  The more engaged I am in the task, the less I care about the tools (provided they work).  Because at the end of the day you just want to gain the skill - not buy the fanciest training aid.

For me personally, it seems that the desire to buy and consume things goes way up when I have little time to do the things that I love.  Then I want to buy a new guitar because I need to get the most out of the short period of time I'm playing, I need to buy the fancier bike because otherwise I'll be slower than all those guys who have the time to train regularly, etc.

Yeah, I find being engaged in activities where I can see steady progress is great for fending off depression or melancholy.    Shopping and consumerism not so much.

I seem to relearn this every month though.    If only I could make it more of a habit...

[GuitarStv]

My desire to buy stuff tends to really drop away when I'm engaged in things I love to do.

For example, I play guitar.  There are always pretty, new guitars out there.  But once you've got a decent one, buying a new guitar won't make you sound any better.  Only practice and skill on the instrument will.  The more that I practice and play, the more that this is really driven home.  Same with cycling, wrestling, boxing, writing, etc.  The more engaged I am in the task, the less I care about the tools (provided they work).  Because at the end of the day you just want to gain the skill - not buy the fanciest training aid.

For me personally, it seems that the desire to buy and consume things goes way up when I have little time to do the things that I love.  Then I want to buy a new guitar because I need to get the most out of the short period of time I'm playing, I need to buy the fancier bike because otherwise I'll be slower than all those guys who have the time to train regularly, etc.

Yeah, I find being engaged in activities where I can see steady progress is great for fending off depression or melancholy.    Shopping and consumerism not so much.

I seem to relearn this every month though.    If only I could make it more of a habit...

You probably just need to buy yourself something as a reminder . . .


:P

[CodingHare]

Here's one that is 100% mental trick: Log out of all your online shopping services.  Amazon, Etsy, Ebay, wherever you have an account.

The tiny barrier of logging in reminds me that I logged out because I wanted to buy less stuff.  Do I **really** need to add whatever I am thinking about to my cart?

It's similar to the "add to your cart and wait 3 days" trick posted above, but it is amazing how resistant our brains are to overcoming small hurdles.  Make it less convenient.

[DragonSlayer]

I try to find satisfaction in something that's free/super inexpensive or that I'm already paying for. Going to the library and checking out a pile of books gives me the satisfaction of "getting" something. Watching a good movie on a streaming service I'm already paying for (or borrowing from the library) vs. going to the theater . Borrowing something from a friend to get the "ooh, shiny" feeling without having to own the thing. Going to a board game cafe (well, pre-covid, anyway) rather than buying a game. Or digging a neglected game out of the closet and rediscovering it. Going to a minor league baseball game with free tickets from a local promotion rather than going to the overpriced pro hockey game. Etc.

I also try to "plus" the free thing so it feels more special. Like with the library books, if there's one I've been dying for, I set aside a special block of time, make a really indulgent snack, and sit down to really savor the experience. Or with a movie, I make my own "gourmet" popcorn, get super comfy in my jammies, turn off the phone and the lights and really settle in as though I were in a theater. With a game, if we're playing at home, we'll do much the same and really set the night aside for the experience with good food and no phone. I make myself present for the experience and that alone goes a long way toward making even the mundane feel special enough to stave off cravings for "more."

[youngwildandfree]

My desire to buy stuff tends to really drop away when I'm engaged in things I love to do.

For example, I play guitar.  There are always pretty, new guitars out there.  But once you've got a decent one, buying a new guitar won't make you sound any better.  Only practice and skill on the instrument will.  The more that I practice and play, the more that this is really driven home.  Same with cycling, wrestling, boxing, writing, etc.  The more engaged I am in the task, the less I care about the tools (provided they work).  Because at the end of the day you just want to gain the skill - not buy the fanciest training aid.

For me personally, it seems that the desire to buy and consume things goes way up when I have little time to do the things that I love.  Then I want to buy a new guitar because I need to get the most out of the short period of time I'm playing, I need to buy the fancier bike because otherwise I'll be slower than all those guys who have the time to train regularly, etc.

This is such a good thread! I've noticed this in particular about myself as well. Making the time to pick up my hobbies increases both my happiness and my savings. I really enjoy swimming. I only buy new googles/suits/caps when I haven't been to the pool or lake in forever.

[thesis]

One of Jacob Fisker's recommendations is to wait one month. Sometimes that's too long, though, but I think 3 days is still a good start and can probably eliminate most impulse purchases. However, I've also had items on my list for months that I'm still not sure I really want, so I think it's also important to reevaluate at a certain point. For a long time now, I've wanted a nice pair of binoculars for hiking, but I can't bring myself to spend $90 on a set when my crappy ones still get the job done (they're even compact and light-weight!). I stumbled upon hunting optics online, and the multi-thousand dollar options made me queasy inside. It reminded me that some people put tens of thousands into their hobbies, and that's not the person I want to be (no offense if you happen to be into that stuff).

I just got rid of a large item I've hated for a long time, and the excitement from that is reminding me just how much I value having less.

[Dicey]

Before there was MMM, there were The Frugal Girl and The Non-Consumer Advocate blogs.  They both do Five Frugal Things posts. I love reading the comments. Today, when TFG did an FFT post, I didn't think I had anything that frugal to list. However, as I read through the comments, I found myself saying, "I did that, I do that, I'm doing that" etc. I think living frugally is so ingrained that I don't think of what I do daily is particularly noteworthy or frugal.

[Fish Sweet]

When it comes to material goods, I try to put a lot of thought into "feeling out" any purchase before I make it.  Where will I put it?  When will I use it?  How often?  What purpose will it serve in my everyday life (and do I already own stuff that achieves the same or similar goal?)  Do I really see myself appreciating it/getting good use out of it in a week, a month, a year?  How long do I expect it to be in my life?  Why do I want it?  What kind of feelings does this item evoke in me, and are they a true reflection of the value it will add to my life or a fleeting association that disappears under scrutiny?  This actually cuts out a lot of random junk I'm briefly tempted by - as soon as I start up with the mental questioning it becomes too much trouble to continue and I pass it by. Even the first two questions (where & when) are enough to eliminate 75% of potential purchases right off the bat.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm sometimes very easily swayed when it comes to consumables and "experience" type spending though, where the mental valuation is more blurry and envisioning the purchase only makes it more tempting.

[jpdx]

Building on all the great advice above, always try to evaluate the "total cost of ownership" for the item you are considering purchasing. Does this item require storage space? Maintenance? Cleaning? Is it a purchase that might lead to additional purchases? In the long run, will it improve your quality of life, or clutter your life?

[kei te pai]

I check my investment balances when tempted by consumerism. It reminds me I like money better than stuff.

[jamster]

When I'm tempted to buy something, my favorite trick is to think of how many hours I'd have to work to pay it off. Almost always the case that I'd rather have the time than the thing.

[Gone Fishing]

Clean out some cluttered corner of the house.  After getting done, I can't imagine buying one more thing.

[Dicey]

I thought of a couple more tricks. If the urge to spend strikes, I scratch it by grocery shopping. I shop without a list*, but my go-to places are Grocery Outlet and the 99 Cents Only Store. I use the pantry principle, stocking up on things that represent significant savings. It scratches the itch and keeps my family well fed on the cheap. *I fill in the gaps at Costco, where I always shop with a list, which I keep on my phone.

In my pre-FIRE days, when the urge for a new car struck, I simply figured out what it would cost in sales tax. If that didn't work, I added in the transaction costs such as license and registration and higher insurance premiums. Then I imagined what wiser things I could do with that large amount of money and it cured me every time. Now that I'm FIRE and could literally write a check for any vehicle with the balance on hand, I'm just not interested. My car is the newest vehicle in our family fleet, and it's a 2014. We bought it used in 2016 and still think of it as our "new" car.

Finally, the aspect of YMOYL that resonated most with me was the concept of Life Energy. How much of my Life's Energy is this widget going to cost me? Is a question that's now permanently embedded in my thinking.

[Metalcat]

I come at it from a totally different direction.

My best life is frugal, so it's pretty self perpetuating. In fact all of my healthy habits are self perpetuating when I'm in a great place in my life: I eat well, exercise, sleep well, stay in touch with friends and family, and don't feel any urge to spend and own more for the sake of spending and owning more. When life is good, it's good.

So instead I register a consumerist urge as a signal to check if something is off in my life. It's a warning sign that there's some lack of balance and that I'm trying to meet and unmet need through spending.

Early on though, it wasn't so automatic. I found listening to ChooseFI podcasts when I cooked really helped me stay in the groove of the FI community mindset.

One thing I learned along the way is that you can't spend your way to your best life, and attempting to actually blocks your ability to build towards true happiness.

Living your best life takes work, it takes thoughtfulness, it takes effort to really reflect on what you need to be fulfilled, and creative thinking as to how to achieve it. Spending creates shortcuts, but in taking those shortcuts, you miss what matters.

Picture it this way, the path to happiness is a long, challenging hike through beautiful mountains. It's cheap or free to get access, it takes time and effort to get to the end point, and you may get lost along the way. Spending is more like jumping in your car, driving around the mountain, and then patting yourself on the back that you got to the other side faster.

Meanwhile, if you had hiked, you would have seen beautiful sights, your body would have exercised, your mental health would have benefited from being in nature, and you would end up on the other side of the mountain feeling peaceful, contended, proud, and satisfied with how you spent your time. Had you driven, you would miss out on the entire point of going to the mountain.

Spending short circuits your process of figuring out what you really need to thrive, it's a shortcut that gives you an artificial hit of satisfaction, and distracts you from your needs as opposed to actually meeting them.

So whenever you feel a spendy urge, take it as a signal that you have some kind of important unmet need, and the challenge is to get to know yourself well enough to understand what work is *actually* needed to meet that need, not just what purchase will quiet it down for a little while.

Your best life isn't found on the other end of a credit card transaction.

[scottish]

My desire to buy stuff tends to really drop away when I'm engaged in things I love to do.

For example, I play guitar.  There are always pretty, new guitars out there.  But once you've got a decent one, buying a new guitar won't make you sound any better.  Only practice and skill on the instrument will.  The more that I practice and play, the more that this is really driven home.  Same with cycling, wrestling, boxing, writing, etc.  The more engaged I am in the task, the less I care about the tools (provided they work).  Because at the end of the day you just want to gain the skill - not buy the fanciest training aid.

For me personally, it seems that the desire to buy and consume things goes way up when I have little time to do the things that I love.  Then I want to buy a new guitar because I need to get the most out of the short period of time I'm playing, I need to buy the fancier bike because otherwise I'll be slower than all those guys who have the time to train regularly, etc.

Yeah, I find being engaged in activities where I can see steady progress is great for fending off depression or melancholy.    Shopping and consumerism not so much.

I seem to relearn this every month though.    If only I could make it more of a habit...

You probably just need to buy yourself something as a reminder . . .


:P

You jest!    But... reading about a reminder in your reply, I've created a reminder in my calendar to build a monthly to do list on the 1st of every month.    Obvious you say?   Doh.

[Morning Glory]

I don't get many spending urges (don't worry, I have other bad habits instead). I don't like shopping much, and I hate clutter.  I often have to check myself from being too cheap, for example making sure to replace shoes before I get foot problems.

I did go through a phase when I was younger where I thought I should spend out of some sense of duty to the economy. Even then it was mostly gifts for other people. I didn't have kids yet and now I cringe at the sheer number of toys I added to the clutter in other people's houses. Now I usually just give money.

[Ron Scott]

Well, I’m 65 and retired (only) 4 years, but I’ve found that as I’ve aged the thrill of buying and owning a lot of new things has pretty much faded.

A few thoughts:

1. Don’t get hung up on any philosophy about being a consumer or not. This head trip has been filling the airspace in America since the 60s…enough! So long as you’re not an addict, just find the level of spending that makes you happy. Don’t try to impress anyone with how much or how little you spend.

2. Quality over quantity. I kept one car for 21 years (22 and I’d be divorced) and another for 16.

3. When given a tiered choice in a product (think car trims, TVs, electronics) BUY THE MIDDLE. The bottom of the line comes without a couple really useful features and the top of the line has crap you’ll never use. (3D TV anyone?)

[MrThatsDifferent]

Reading these forums is very helpful for me not to lose focus.

This is the one that works for me. I get a bit lost when I take breaks from the forum and then I start reading them again and get energized to stay in control of my money again. I’m neither naturally frugal or speedy, but tend to be absent-minded when it comes to money and finance unless I’m purposely mindful. It’s a muscle that has to be continually exercised.

[LD_TAndK]

Reading these forums is very helpful for me not to lose focus.

This is the one that works for me. I get a bit lost when I take breaks from the forum and then I start reading them again and get energized to stay in control of my money again. I’m neither naturally frugal or speedy, but tend to be absent-minded when it comes to money and finance unless I’m purposely mindful. It’s a muscle that has to be continually exercised.

On the other side, I notice if I'm spending too much time on the bogleheads forum I start subconsciously normalizing all sorts of purchases (fancy car, larger house etc).

Building on all the great advice above, always try to evaluate the "total cost of ownership" for the item you are considering purchasing. Does this item require storage space? Maintenance? Cleaning? Is it a purchase that might lead to additional purchases? In the long run, will it improve your quality of life, or clutter your life?

This is one of my favorites, I do a heavily biased pricing of all those extra costs, then add the opportunity cost of not investing that in VTSAX over a decade, then maybe convert that total to a pre-tax income number. It's not the fairest calculation but it sure gives me sticker shock

[GuitarStv]

3. When given a tiered choice in a product (think car trims, TVs, electronics) BUY THE MIDDLE. The bottom of the line comes without a couple really useful features and the top of the line has crap you’ll never use. (3D TV anyone?)

Not sure I can agree with this.  When you buy something with a tiered choice, research what the options are and then buy the one that meets your needs.

I've been perfectly happy with a bottom of the line Toyota Corrola.  The features it was missing weren't things I cared about - so there wasn't any 'missing useful feature'.  I've also been perfectly happy with the Dyson vacuum cleaner I bought about 20 years ago - it was top of the line at the time it was purchased, but seemed to work much better than the cheaper options I was considering . . . and works as well today as it did brand new.  No crap I didn't use.

[Metalcat]

3. When given a tiered choice in a product (think car trims, TVs, electronics) BUY THE MIDDLE. The bottom of the line comes without a couple really useful features and the top of the line has crap you’ll never use. (3D TV anyone?)

Not sure I can agree with this.  When you buy something with a tiered choice, research what the options are and then buy the one that meets your needs.

I've been perfectly happy with a bottom of the line Toyota Corrola.  The features it was missing weren't things I cared about - so there wasn't any 'missing useful feature'.  I've also been perfectly happy with the Dyson vacuum cleaner I bought about 20 years ago - it was top of the line at the time it was purchased, but seemed to work much better than the cheaper options I was considering . . . and works as well today as it did brand new.  No crap I didn't use.

100% agree with this.

Often the bottom tier is by far the best value, and sometimes the top tier is. This example is top of mind at the moment, but I always buy the very, very top of the line in terms of paint unless it's for a house I'm about to sell, in which case I buy the lowest grade paint. I have never and would never buy the middle grade paint.

It all depends on your actual needs, and it's the process of truly understanding those needs that optimizes your spending. Knowing when you do and don't need "features" is more important than the retail "value" of those features.

*I* set the value for everything in my life, and then the retail value either matches that or it doesn't.

[Zikoris]

I think the learning I did when I got into zero waste permanently put me off consumerism, probably for life. I learned about all the people dying in the production of electronics, the mountains and mountains and islands of garbage produced that's killing off animals and the environment in general, the human impact of all the overseas production in places with lax rules, pollution, etc.

I look at most consumer goods for sale, and the first thing that comes to mind is all of the above - the people dying, the planet dying, etc. How could I possibly financially support that and not feel like a total piece of shit?

[stoaX]

Well, I’m 65 and retired (only) 4 years, but I’ve found that as I’ve aged the thrill of buying and owning a lot of new things has pretty much faded.

A few thoughts:

1. Don’t get hung up on any philosophy about being a consumer or not. This head trip has been filling the airspace in America since the 60s…enough! So long as you’re not an addict, just find the level of spending that makes you happy. Don’t try to impress anyone with how much or how little you spend.

2. Quality over quantity. I kept one car for 21 years (22 and I’d be divorced) and another for 16.

3. When given a tiered choice in a product (think car trims, TVs, electronics) BUY THE MIDDLE. The bottom of the line comes without a couple really useful features and the top of the line has crap you’ll never use. (3D TV anyone?)

Good points. I would add that considering the environmental impact of buying more crap can help squash the desire. 

[Kris]

1) I try never to go into any consumer facility (store) that is not primarily about buying sustenance. In other words, I go into grocery stores (and sometimes pharmacies if I need health care), and that is it. Malls, Target, and any other place that sells lifestyle trinkets are the devil.

2) I take a three-mile morning walk every day, and being in the simple pleasure of enjoying the outdoors gives me a daily reminder to be thankful for what I really like and care about.

3) Being on this forum reminds me of my goals.

4) Checking my account balances periodically gives me the “wealth” ego boost I need. ;)

[JJ-]

There's already a lot of good advice posted here.

I'll chime in with some thoughts that may or may not be a bit repetitive.

This is a frugality forum, not a cheap forum. If you're finding a desire to purchase things for hobby or daily life, i don't see an issue with most of that within reason. Why else are we saving? It is prioritizing where we spend money, not never spending money.

The other thing is ... Don't mentally anguish over small stuff. If a $20 item is causing you lots of mental strife, just buy the thing and move on. You might regret it, but you'll learn a lesson.

This place helps optimize financial health, but there are other areas of life and finance plays a part. If you're agonizing over every single purchase you make in your life you probably have something other than a financial issue going on.

[ca-rn]

There's already a lot of good advice posted here.

I'll chime in with some thoughts that may or may not be a bit repetitive.

This is a frugality forum, not a cheap forum. If you're finding a desire to purchase things for hobby or daily life, i don't see an issue with most of that within reason. Why else are we saving? It is prioritizing where we spend money, not never spending money.

The other thing is ... Don't mentally anguish over small stuff. If a $20 item is causing you lots of mental strife, just buy the thing and move on. You might regret it, but you'll learn a lesson.

This place helps optimize financial health, but there are other areas of life and finance plays a part. If you're agonizing over every single purchase you make in your life you probably have something other than a financial issue going on.

I'm coming around to this way of thinking- be frugal not cheap, invest in quality not junk.  After nearly a (adult) lifetime of living as a self supported poor college student (I was!) I continually have to remind myself I'm not a poor college student anymore. 

Saving and living this way has helped me attain a net worth I would not of imagined reaching.  This way of living is hardwired and since reaching FI, I mentally remind myself its ok to spend money!  I have the opposite problem of falling into the hedonic treadmill.

Balance is important- don't spend too much but don't be afraid to spend money either.  So long as you LBYM, you'll reach FI.

[JJ-]

There's already a lot of good advice posted here.

I'll chime in with some thoughts that may or may not be a bit repetitive.

This is a frugality forum, not a cheap forum. If you're finding a desire to purchase things for hobby or daily life, i don't see an issue with most of that within reason. Why else are we saving? It is prioritizing where we spend money, not never spending money.

The other thing is ... Don't mentally anguish over small stuff. If a $20 item is causing you lots of mental strife, just buy the thing and move on. You might regret it, but you'll learn a lesson.

This place helps optimize financial health, but there are other areas of life and finance plays a part. If you're agonizing over every single purchase you make in your life you probably have something other than a financial issue going on.

I'm coming around to this way of thinking- be frugal not cheap, invest in quality not junk.  After nearly a (adult) lifetime of living as a self supported poor college student (I was!) I continually have to remind myself I'm not a poor college student anymore. 

Saving and living this way has helped me attain a net worth I would not of imagined reaching.  This way of living is hardwired and since reaching FI, I mentally remind myself its ok to spend money!  I have the opposite problem of falling into the hedonic treadmill.

Balance is important- don't spend too much but don't be afraid to spend money either.  So long as you LBYM, you'll reach FI.

At the beginning of this journey we cut a lot and slowly introduced some things back into our life spending wise. Some of those reintroductions stuck, some did not. Some have been replaced.

I've never been one to follow a strong budget or plan spending. What's more helpful for me to think about every six or 12 months is to look at overall spending over that period for two things.

First, is my mental handle on where our money going actually match up? If not, i dig in to understand our habits a bit more to see where the money went to understand why I missed it and how our actual lives aren't lining up with my mental spending model.

Second, obviously spending impacts FI timelines. We're at a point where we cut $4,000 a year it removes  a year from the work timeline. Add $4k it adds a year or two (i just made these numbers up but they sound generally right).

After being a poor grad student chasing free meal to free meal my mentality having such a cushion is vastly different from where it was 10-12 years ago. $20 is still a lot of money to me when I see something that wasn't on the mental agenda and doesn't fit the "does it provide value to me", but I also have no problem dropping several hundred $ when it comes to things that we've chosen to have in our lives (house maintenance, animals, gardening, biking etc).

[ketchup]

3. When given a tiered choice in a product (think car trims, TVs, electronics) BUY THE MIDDLE. The bottom of the line comes without a couple really useful features and the top of the line has crap you’ll never use. (3D TV anyone?)

Not sure I can agree with this.  When you buy something with a tiered choice, research what the options are and then buy the one that meets your needs.

I've been perfectly happy with a bottom of the line Toyota Corrola.  The features it was missing weren't things I cared about - so there wasn't any 'missing useful feature'.  I've also been perfectly happy with the Dyson vacuum cleaner I bought about 20 years ago - it was top of the line at the time it was purchased, but seemed to work much better than the cheaper options I was considering . . . and works as well today as it did brand new.  No crap I didn't use.

Have they finally put cruise control on bottom-tier trim levels of cars yet?  That's the only thing I find I ever miss if I'm in a stripped-down-basic-level rental car.  Every car I've actually owned (all purchased well-used) have somehow managed to have that, and I find it baffling when it's not there.

[MoneyTree]

Nice thread. Some things for me:

Don't watch television. this spares me the advertising and also the subconscious lifestyle creep from seeing lifestyle choices either glorified or normalized on screen.

Get rid of stuff regularly. I feel great after giving stuff away. As I'm getting rid of clutter, I remind myself that all that stuff that is cluttering my life used to be money. (I forget where I heard that, so sorry no attribution). Makes me less likely to turn around and just re-fill it with more stuff.

There used to be an app where you would input your FIRE numbers (assets, growth rate, spending, income, etc) and it would calculate exactly how much time left until your retirement date. The cool thing is that it also let you input an extra expense (one time or recurring) and it would then tell you how much time that would add to your retirement date. (Is this subscription really worth adding 6 months to my retirement date?) Alas that app is no more, but I will still do a rough mental calculation when contemplating certain purchases.

Overall, I just focus on one thing I'd like to optimize or improve at a time, then work at building that one thing into my life until it becomes normal, then move onto the next thing. That way, I can be really be focused in on one thing, while building habits that will persist over the long haul.

[Metalcat]

3. When given a tiered choice in a product (think car trims, TVs, electronics) BUY THE MIDDLE. The bottom of the line comes without a couple really useful features and the top of the line has crap you’ll never use. (3D TV anyone?)

Not sure I can agree with this.  When you buy something with a tiered choice, research what the options are and then buy the one that meets your needs.

I've been perfectly happy with a bottom of the line Toyota Corrola.  The features it was missing weren't things I cared about - so there wasn't any 'missing useful feature'.  I've also been perfectly happy with the Dyson vacuum cleaner I bought about 20 years ago - it was top of the line at the time it was purchased, but seemed to work much better than the cheaper options I was considering . . . and works as well today as it did brand new.  No crap I didn't use.

Have they finally put cruise control on bottom-tier trim levels of cars yet?  That's the only thing I find I ever miss if I'm in a stripped-down-basic-level rental car.  Every car I've actually owned (all purchased well-used) have somehow managed to have that, and I find it baffling when it's not there.

You only need cruise control if you drive a lot on highways.

I've had my new car for nearly two years, and I just used the cruise control for the first time today. Just driving around the city doing errands makes cruise control essentially useless for me.

So yeah, it really depends on the individual if certain features are actually value added.

[alex753]

Stoicism and a healthy dose of Diogenes Cynicism.

[Chris Pascale]

Are there any particular activities, mantras, blog posts, videos, etc. you go to when you notice yourself sliding into consumer suckerdom? Have you found a good way to get inspired and back on track?

Personally I find even a single night in the woods backpacking can reset my thinking back to frugal badassity.

Just got back from a couple days in the woods. One hike was a guided tour off the path with a ranger who's been with the NYS parks for 48 years. The second was on the path along complete with 2 souvenir shops.

I think next year we might do monthly hikes from April-October.

Trail shoe reco's are welcome. We were in tennis shoes this time around.

[Metalcat]

Stoicism and a healthy dose of Diogenes Cynicism.

Some of us employ the opposite.

If you're one of us who really see frugality as the path to the richest, most fun and exciting life, then no stoicism or cynicism is needed.

There's a certain point where the consumerist alternative legitimately stops being appealing at all, where looking for the frugal option means looking for the better, more fun option.

We've given up NOTHING for our lifestyle. Even among friends who spend several times what we do, we are recognized as living an extremely lush and rich life. We are actually envied by most of our very high spend friends. They don't envy us for what we have, they would never want to make the trade offs we do, but they all wish that they wanted the things we want, because we very obviously enjoy our lifestyle more than they do theirs.

[ender]

3. When given a tiered choice in a product (think car trims, TVs, electronics) BUY THE MIDDLE. The bottom of the line comes without a couple really useful features and the top of the line has crap you’ll never use. (3D TV anyone?)

Not sure I can agree with this.  When you buy something with a tiered choice, research what the options are and then buy the one that meets your needs.

I've been perfectly happy with a bottom of the line Toyota Corrola.  The features it was missing weren't things I cared about - so there wasn't any 'missing useful feature'.  I've also been perfectly happy with the Dyson vacuum cleaner I bought about 20 years ago - it was top of the line at the time it was purchased, but seemed to work much better than the cheaper options I was considering . . . and works as well today as it did brand new.  No crap I didn't use.

Have they finally put cruise control on bottom-tier trim levels of cars yet?  That's the only thing I find I ever miss if I'm in a stripped-down-basic-level rental car.  Every car I've actually owned (all purchased well-used) have somehow managed to have that, and I find it baffling when it's not there.

You only need cruise control if you drive a lot on highways.

I've had my new car for nearly two years, and I just used the cruise control for the first time today. Just driving around the city doing errands makes cruise control essentially useless for me.

So yeah, it really depends on the individual if certain features are actually value added.

You don't even need it if you drive on highways ;-)

I drove close to 100k miles on an older car that had a broken aftermarket cruise control I never bothered to fix and almost all of those miles were 55mph+ miles.

It was annoying though, for sure.

[ketchup]

3. When given a tiered choice in a product (think car trims, TVs, electronics) BUY THE MIDDLE. The bottom of the line comes without a couple really useful features and the top of the line has crap you’ll never use. (3D TV anyone?)

Not sure I can agree with this.  When you buy something with a tiered choice, research what the options are and then buy the one that meets your needs.

I've been perfectly happy with a bottom of the line Toyota Corrola.  The features it was missing weren't things I cared about - so there wasn't any 'missing useful feature'.  I've also been perfectly happy with the Dyson vacuum cleaner I bought about 20 years ago - it was top of the line at the time it was purchased, but seemed to work much better than the cheaper options I was considering . . . and works as well today as it did brand new.  No crap I didn't use.

Have they finally put cruise control on bottom-tier trim levels of cars yet?  That's the only thing I find I ever miss if I'm in a stripped-down-basic-level rental car.  Every car I've actually owned (all purchased well-used) have somehow managed to have that, and I find it baffling when it's not there.

You only need cruise control if you drive a lot on highways.

I've had my new car for nearly two years, and I just used the cruise control for the first time today. Just driving around the city doing errands makes cruise control essentially useless for me.

So yeah, it really depends on the individual if certain features are actually value added.

You don't even need it if you drive on highways ;-)

I drove close to 100k miles on an older car that had a broken aftermarket cruise control I never bothered to fix and almost all of those miles were 55mph+ miles.

It was annoying though, for sure.

If by "annoying" you mean "my foot hurts after driving all day", then yes!  The 900 mile one-way drive to see family is a lot more pleasant with cruise control.

[Just Joe]

On the subject of stuff - there is an endless supply of new-old-stock or slightly used stuff to choose from at a reduced cost on the web.

I like to buy nice things that were lightly used and well cared for. I can often buy the best of an antique thing for less than the economy 2021 version. The quality old thing has decades of life left in it. The newer thing might not even be repairable when it breaks in a few short years while the antique version definitely is.

At this point in my life I am very capable in my shop. The web helps with answers. I get satisfaction from making things last "forever". Generally not hard to do. Parts are generally easy to find for older things.

Saw a 1980s dishwasher for sale this week. Brand new, still in the box, features were similar to a 2021 dishwashers. $400. Don't need a new dishwasher right now. Do you?

Our needs and tastes don't change much over time. DW and I refuse to chase styles. Styles can be expensive... 

[alex753]

Stoicism and a healthy dose of Diogenes Cynicism.

Some of us employ the opposite.

If you're one of us who really see frugality as the path to the richest, most fun and exciting life, then no stoicism or cynicism is needed.

There's a certain point where the consumerist alternative legitimately stops being appealing at all, where looking for the frugal option means looking for the better, more fun option.

We've given up NOTHING for our lifestyle. Even among friends who spend several times what we do, we are recognized as living an extremely lush and rich life. We are actually envied by most of our very high spend friends. They don't envy us for what we have, they would never want to make the trade offs we do, but they all wish that they wanted the things we want, because we very obviously enjoy our lifestyle more than they do theirs.

I don't follow, can you be more specific?  At first glance seems you're in tune with Diogenes.

[Metalcat]

Stoicism and a healthy dose of Diogenes Cynicism.

Some of us employ the opposite.

If you're one of us who really see frugality as the path to the richest, most fun and exciting life, then no stoicism or cynicism is needed.

There's a certain point where the consumerist alternative legitimately stops being appealing at all, where looking for the frugal option means looking for the better, more fun option.

We've given up NOTHING for our lifestyle. Even among friends who spend several times what we do, we are recognized as living an extremely lush and rich life. We are actually envied by most of our very high spend friends. They don't envy us for what we have, they would never want to make the trade offs we do, but they all wish that they wanted the things we want, because we very obviously enjoy our lifestyle more than they do theirs.

I don't follow, can you be more specific?  At first glance seems you're in tune with Diogenes.

I was specifically referring to stoicism.

For some people, a frugal lifestyle doesn't mean employing much stoicism. The frugal life can be overflowing with luxury and indulgence and comfort.

There are ways to live and extremely lush and cushy life while spending very little. Spending more doesn't necessarily get you a more comfortable life.

Many of my higher spending friends need to employ more stoicism than we do to manage the struggles, strains, and discomforts of their lives.

Here's an example: I don't like to have to eat out at most restaurants because I prefer my cooking and hard chairs are uncomfortable for me because of my injuries. So eating at home with my excellent meals, luxurious comfortable seating, eating off of fine China, and drinking out of crystal glasses is always going to require less stoicism from me than going out to a restaurant, which is shittier in every way and costs more.

Sometimes the most cushy, luxurious, self indulgent option is the cheaper one.

[rivendale]

I try to find satisfaction in something that's free/super inexpensive or that I'm already paying for. Going to the library and checking out a pile of books gives me the satisfaction of "getting" something. Watching a good movie on a streaming service I'm already paying for (or borrowing from the library) vs. going to the theater . Borrowing something from a friend to get the "ooh, shiny" feeling without having to own the thing. Going to a board game cafe (well, pre-covid, anyway) rather than buying a game. Or digging a neglected game out of the closet and rediscovering it. Going to a minor league baseball game with free tickets from a local promotion rather than going to the overpriced pro hockey game. Etc.

I also try to "plus" the free thing so it feels more special. Like with the library books, if there's one I've been dying for, I set aside a special block of time, make a really indulgent snack, and sit down to really savor the experience. Or with a movie, I make my own "gourmet" popcorn, get super comfy in my jammies, turn off the phone and the lights and really settle in as though I were in a theater. With a game, if we're playing at home, we'll do much the same and really set the night aside for the experience with good food and no phone. I make myself present for the experience and that alone goes a long way toward making even the mundane feel special enough to stave off cravings for "more."

I really like the "plus" idea of the free things in life. I can totally relate to making the ordinary seem special. Thanks for the reminder.

[JAYSLOL]

Building on all the great advice above, always try to evaluate the "total cost of ownership" for the item you are considering purchasing. Does this item require storage space? Maintenance? Cleaning? Is it a purchase that might lead to additional purchases? In the long run, will it improve your quality of life, or clutter your life?

I absolutely love cars, so I have to do those calculations every time a see a deal on a fun used car for sale.  For example, I spotted an awesome little sports car for ~$10k, forced myself to run the calculations to determine that that “$10k car” would actually cost me well over $100k over the next ten year in insurance/maintenance/taxes and above all opportunity cost, and that wasn’t including the cost of any increased driving because of owning it, and it assumed nothing major breaks or I gets into an accident, or the cost of my time to deal with it.  So yeah, that’s why this car guy drives a super old shit box hyundai.  For now. 

[Serendip]

Your best life isn't found on the other end of a credit card transaction.

I love this quote!

So much wisdom throughout this thread.
 
I really like the idea of exploring what you own and the services you already subscribe to. Reminds me of this raptitude article https://www.raptitude.com/2017/12/go-deeper-not-wider/ I could seriously mine my own bookshelves & hobbies and spend more time exploring imagination, creativity and relationships rather than acquiring anything new.

This thread also inspired me to recommit to my yoga practice instead of buying a gym pass for the autumn (I already have a year long subscription to yoga through a local teacher but was craving access to a infrared sauna). Somehow it's still too easy for me to attempt to fix dissatisfaction through purchasing but I know through experience it doesn't work. A while back, my SO and I spent a year without buying anything except food/necessities and it was one of the richest years..

[slackmax]

I thought being mustachian meant you have trained yourself to *not* have the urge to spend.

I like to spend when getting a great deal, but that's about it.

Where I need help is in 'letting go' when being around non-mustachian big spenders who expect you to participate in their big spending,
as in they want  to split the tab evenly at the restaurant, so the frugal person has to pay the same amount as the big spender. Ugh.

I am deciding whether or not I will go to a big birthday bash for my mom, at a shore rental, since everyone going
there, except for me, is probably in the 'big spender' category.  Uncomfortable.

At his point I plan to go, since my mom would want me to, but it will be tough sledding for me, emotionally..