Honda Fit discontinued for the US

[LD_TAndK]

38.3 mpg ave fuel economy isn’t that great these days.

I live in traffic jammed Houston, land of the single digit mpg.

I got the worst fuel economy of my life driving through urban/suburban texas last spring. The pattern was accelerating to 60 mph before coming to a complete stop at the next traffic light 1/2 mile ahead.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

38.3 mpg ave fuel economy isn’t that great these days.

I live in traffic jammed Houston, land of the single digit mpg.

I got the worst fuel economy of my life driving through urban/suburban texas last spring. The pattern was accelerating to 60 mph before coming to a complete stop at the next traffic light 1/2 mile ahead.

I think some of it comes from this legacy - https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/let_the_bastards_freeze_in_the_dark_drive_80_mph_and_freeze_a_yankee

Texans had other reasons (besides environmental restrictions on energy) for “freezing Yankees” in 1973-74. Federal regulations had required supplying Northeast customers with oil and natural gas at regulated prices. Also, Northeast politicians had suggested that Texans should have conserved energy during this out-of-state energy giveaway. The “Drive 80 mph and freeze a Yankee” bumper stickers were popular in Houston at this time.

[GuitarStv]

38.3 mpg ave fuel economy isn’t that great these days.

What is great MPG these days?   

I've been averaging 35-45 mpg in our Pruis and cold ass weather.   

Consumer Reports records the new Prius gets same or worse MPG than the previous gen, but it looks better : /

For cold weather, not much progress.   A 50% drop in MPGe isn't good, and no real progress on Hybrid/ICE.

I get pretty good mileage on my bike.

[ChpBstrd]

One's fuel costs rapidly diminish in a non-linear way as MPG goes up. The difference between 15mpg and 16mpg is much larger than the difference between 40mpg and 42mpg.

If we were logical creatures, we'd measure fuel economy not with miles per units of gasoline, but with units of gasoline per mile, or gallons/liters per X number of miles.

Cost to go 1,000 miles:

15mpg: 67g
20mpg: 50g (a 17g reduction from 15mpg!)
25mpg: 40g
30mpg: 33g
35mpg: 29g
40mpg: 25g
45mpg: 22g
50mpg: 20g
55mpg: 18g (a 2g reduction from 50mpg)

Once we get above about 40mpg, the differences get really small and the engineering sacrifices required to reach the next level of efficiency get even harder (e.g. vehicle capacity, acceleration, cost, complexity, aerodynamics versus ease of use).

It follows that the U.S. land of land yachts could cut its fuel consumption in half just by changing the types of cars we drive. Going from a 20mpg SUV/Prettytruck to a ~40mpg commuter car (like an improved version of a gasoline car like the Fit or a hybrid) should end all complaints about gas prices. Even at $10/gallon, 1,000 miles of transportation is still relatively cheap in a ~40mpg car.

[nereo]

If we were logical creatures, we'd measure fuel economy not with miles per units of gasoline, but with units of gasoline per mile, or gallons/liters per X number of miles.

This is exactly how it is done in many other countries, and a system that would be more intuitive to use. Fuel ratings are typically expressed in how many liters of fuel it takes to drive 100km in Canada. Lower is better. Since we think of trips in distance (“it’s about 200km to grandmas”) it’s easy to estimate how many liters of fuel it will take.

We could express our estimated fuel economy in gallons per 100 miles, but we rarely do.

[RWD]

Gallons per 100 miles is so much superior to MPG for intuitively showing fuel consumption differences.

[LennStar]

It follows that the U.S. land of land yachts could cut its fuel consumption in half just by changing the types of cars we drive. Going from a 20mpg SUV/Prettytruck to a ~40mpg commuter car (like an improved version of a gasoline car like the Fit or a hybrid) should end all complaints about gas prices. Even at $10/gallon, 1,000 miles of transportation is still relatively cheap in a ~40mpg car.

My 10 year old car takes ~6 liter per 100km, which is 39mpg. And that is cheap, old technology, not something super expensive.
But you can't roll coal.

[ChpBstrd]

It follows that the U.S. land of land yachts could cut its fuel consumption in half just by changing the types of cars we drive. Going from a 20mpg SUV/Prettytruck to a ~40mpg commuter car (like an improved version of a gasoline car like the Fit or a hybrid) should end all complaints about gas prices. Even at $10/gallon, 1,000 miles of transportation is still relatively cheap in a ~40mpg car.

My 10 year old car takes ~6 liter per 100km, which is 39mpg. And that is cheap, old technology, not something super expensive.
But you can't roll coal.

The US version of the Fit / Jazz uses about 33mpg or 7L per 100km. However, the Australian version is said to burn 6.1L/100k and owners of pre-hybrid UK versions report 51mpg or 4.6L/100k.

It is typical for cars to have a bigger engine, more tuned for acceleration in the US market. There is a mindset in the US that the only reason a person would want a small car is if they want something sporty to drive, whereas people elsewhere seem to have more common sense. 

However there might be something wrong with this math because all the non-hybrid Fits/Jazzes I compared have a 1.5L gasoline engine. How could the UK Fit/Jazz with the same engine be de-tuned to the extent it got over 30% better fuel economy?

[RWD]

It follows that the U.S. land of land yachts could cut its fuel consumption in half just by changing the types of cars we drive. Going from a 20mpg SUV/Prettytruck to a ~40mpg commuter car (like an improved version of a gasoline car like the Fit or a hybrid) should end all complaints about gas prices. Even at $10/gallon, 1,000 miles of transportation is still relatively cheap in a ~40mpg car.

My 10 year old car takes ~6 liter per 100km, which is 39mpg. And that is cheap, old technology, not something super expensive.
But you can't roll coal.

The US version of the Fit / Jazz uses about 33mpg or 7L per 100km. However, the Australian version is said to burn 6.1L/100k and owners of pre-hybrid UK versions report 51mpg or 4.6L/100k.

It is typical for cars to have a bigger engine, more tuned for acceleration in the US market. There is a mindset in the US that the only reason a person would want a small car is if they want something sporty to drive, whereas people elsewhere seem to have more common sense. 

However there might be something wrong with this math because all the non-hybrid Fits/Jazzes I compared have a 1.5L gasoline engine. How could the UK Fit/Jazz with the same engine be de-tuned to the extent it got over 30% better fuel economy?

UK gallons are bigger than US gallons by 20%. The rest of the difference is probably different testing methodology.

[ChpBstrd]

It follows that the U.S. land of land yachts could cut its fuel consumption in half just by changing the types of cars we drive. Going from a 20mpg SUV/Prettytruck to a ~40mpg commuter car (like an improved version of a gasoline car like the Fit or a hybrid) should end all complaints about gas prices. Even at $10/gallon, 1,000 miles of transportation is still relatively cheap in a ~40mpg car.

My 10 year old car takes ~6 liter per 100km, which is 39mpg. And that is cheap, old technology, not something super expensive.
But you can't roll coal.

The US version of the Fit / Jazz uses about 33mpg or 7L per 100km. However, the Australian version is said to burn 6.1L/100k and owners of pre-hybrid UK versions report 51mpg or 4.6L/100k.

It is typical for cars to have a bigger engine, more tuned for acceleration in the US market. There is a mindset in the US that the only reason a person would want a small car is if they want something sporty to drive, whereas people elsewhere seem to have more common sense. 

However there might be something wrong with this math because all the non-hybrid Fits/Jazzes I compared have a 1.5L gasoline engine. How could the UK Fit/Jazz with the same engine be de-tuned to the extent it got over 30% better fuel economy?

UK gallons are bigger than US gallons by 20%. The rest of the difference is probably different testing methodology.

Jesus Christ, this information makes me want to go all-metric ASAP.

[Just Joe]

Metric is truly superior in every way... Not idea what it would take for things to change in the USA now with the "culture wars".

[TomTX]

Metric is truly superior in every way... Not idea what it would take for things to change in the USA now with the "culture wars".

Technically, you could argue that the US measurements are based on the metric system - admittedly the worst implementation I have ever heard of - but US Customary units were officially defined in metric terms in 1893.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendenhall_Order
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_Conversion_Act

[Just Joe]

Interesting!

[nereo]

Metric is truly superior in every way... Not idea what it would take for things to change in the USA now with the "culture wars".

I’m a scientist and I’m all in for the metric system and agree we ought to be using it. But there is one advantage (now largely obsolete) with the imperial system and that is that it’s designed to easily be divisible without an accurate scale. Us humans are pretty darn good at being able to divide something pretty equally in half with just our eyes and hands. You can take a gallon jug of milk and divide it into two half gallons and then that into four quarts and then those into eight pii I nuts and chances are you will be very close to the real value. But it’s very hard to accurately divide a liter into 10x 100ml, or a kg into 100g segments with a scale of measuring cups (which now everyone has and ate dirt cheap to buy). But a baker can tell you how easy it is to divide dough into eight equal parts but it’s very difficult  to divide by 10 by eye.

Anyway, just an historic perspective.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Metric is truly superior in every way... Not idea what it would take for things to change in the USA now with the "culture wars".

I've had to do projects in both.  Metric units seem to always be too big or too small, i.e. a foot and an inch are much more useful sizes than a meter, centimeter, and millimeter (even more so for square and cubic feet vs. meter equivalents).  Psi are a more useful size than bar or kilopascal.  For whatever reason, a pound just seems right compared to a kilogram, ounces are better than grams...  But metric units are much easier to actually use (10m H2O ~ 1 bar, 1000kg=1metric ton, etc), that's for sure.  People would lose their minds if we had to use Celsius for the weather, even though 0 and 100 are pretty straightforward. 

[LennStar]

Metric is truly superior in every way... Not idea what it would take for things to change in the USA now with the "culture wars".

I've had to do projects in both.  Metric units seem to always be too big or too small, i.e. a foot and an inch are much more useful sizes than a meter, centimeter, and millimeter (even more so for square and cubic feet vs. meter equivalents).  Psi are a more useful size than bar or kilopascal.  For whatever reason, a pound just seems right compared to a kilogram, ounces are better than grams...  But metric units are much easier to actually use (10m H2O ~ 1 bar, 1000kg=1metric ton, etc), that's for sure.  People would lose their minds if we had to use Celsius for the weather, even though 0 and 100 are pretty straightforward.

Clear case of confirmation bias.
I mean even for bread (the only thing that feels like pounds would be useful), it's easier to think of 1kg or 1,5 kg breads instead of 2 pound or 3 pound breads.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Metric is truly superior in every way... Not idea what it would take for things to change in the USA now with the "culture wars".

I've had to do projects in both.  Metric units seem to always be too big or too small, i.e. a foot and an inch are much more useful sizes than a meter, centimeter, and millimeter (even more so for square and cubic feet vs. meter equivalents).  Psi are a more useful size than bar or kilopascal.  For whatever reason, a pound just seems right compared to a kilogram, ounces are better than grams...  But metric units are much easier to actually use (10m H2O ~ 1 bar, 1000kg=1metric ton, etc), that's for sure.  People would lose their minds if we had to use Celsius for the weather, even though 0 and 100 are pretty straightforward.

Clear case of confirmation bias.
I mean even for bread (the only thing that feels like pounds would be useful), it's easier to think of 1kg or 1,5 kg breads instead of 2 pound or 3 pound breads.

Yeah, people obviously use metric and get by just fine!

I’ve also been on international projects where we carry both units, total nightmare and almost always a mistake…. It’s like they were set up to be wholly incompatible.

[nereo]

Metric is truly superior in every way... Not idea what it would take for things to change in the USA now with the "culture wars".

I've had to do projects in both.  Metric units seem to always be too big or too small, i.e. a foot and an inch are much more useful sizes than a meter, centimeter, and millimeter (even more so for square and cubic feet vs. meter equivalents).  Psi are a more useful size than bar or kilopascal.  For whatever reason, a pound just seems right compared to a kilogram, ounces are better than grams...  But metric units are much easier to actually use (10m H2O ~ 1 bar, 1000kg=1metric ton, etc), that's for sure.  People would lose their minds if we had to use Celsius for the weather, even though 0 and 100 are pretty straightforward.

Clear case of confirmation bias.
I mean even for bread (the only thing that feels like pounds would be useful), it's easier to think of 1kg or 1,5 kg breads instead of 2 pound or 3 pound breads.

Yeah, people obviously use metric and get by just fine!

I’ve also been on international projects where we carry both units, total nightmare and almost always a mistake…. It’s like they were set up to be wholly incompatible.

...well, there was that time that NASA lost a $327MM Mars orbiter because the spacecraft was reporting burn times in Newton Seconds but the software back on earth was reading it as Pound-seconds, making NASA's calculations off by a factor of 4.45.  The net result was we made a small, $0.3B crater on Mars.
https://everydayastronaut.com/mars-climate-orbiter/

[EscapeVelocity2020]

...
...well, there was that time that NASA lost a $327MM Mars orbiter because the spacecraft was reporting burn times in Newton Seconds but the software back on earth was reading it as Pound-seconds, making NASA's calculations off by a factor of 4.45.  The net result was we made a small, $0.3B crater on Mars.
https://everydayastronaut.com/mars-climate-orbiter/

I'll have to file that away for future reference.  We had a project where a centrifugal fan in an enclosed room was sized in acfm but purchased in am3h.  The result was that the room had a strong vacuum and you couldn't open the door or run the fan for very long, which became a safety and operating hazard.  Pretty embarrassing at the time (you'd think someone would have noticed the massively oversized equipment before it got to that point), delayed things and pissed people off, but not quite a NASA...

[grantmeaname]

Clear case of confirmation bias.
I mean even for bread (the only thing that feels like pounds would be useful), it's easier to think of 1kg or 1,5 kg breads instead of 2 pound or 3 pound breads.

What an asinine line of argument. Meat is sold 400g and 500g at a time in Europe. Sometimes even 454g at a time.
So is pasta. Everyone can pull out an arbitrary example of a thing sold in exactly or nearly one unit of a measurement system.

[Must_ache]

European cars are another level of efficiency (and smallness) compared to US cars.  I think I drove a Seat Ibiza last year while roaming around France and the internet tells me it can get about 54mpg.  Granted it's only a 1L engine with 74hp and a top speed of 104 but what more do you need.  I like my Honda Civic but this car would use less gas I would buy something smaller to get the gas mileage benefit.  They are less expensive too, making a Prius a bit less desirable.  But unfortunately I live in the land where bigger is deemed better. 

[RWD]

European cars are another level of efficiency (and smallness) compared to US cars.  I think I drove a Seat Ibiza last year while roaming around France and the internet tells me it can get about 54mpg.  Granted it's only a 1L engine with 74hp and a top speed of 104 but what more do you need.  I like my Honda Civic but this car would use less gas I would buy something smaller to get the gas mileage benefit.  They are less expensive too, making a Prius a bit less desirable.  But unfortunately I live in the land where bigger is deemed better.

Again, Imperial gallons are bigger than US gallons and EPA testing methodology is typically harsher than in Europe. If you look at user-reported data on Fuelly (which allows you to correct for units) the Ibiza is only slightly better than a Civic.
https://www.fuelly.com/car/seat/ibiza
https://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/civic

[RWD]

European cars are another level of efficiency (and smallness) compared to US cars.  I think I drove a Seat Ibiza last year while roaming around France and the internet tells me it can get about 54mpg.  Granted it's only a 1L engine with 74hp and a top speed of 104 but what more do you need.  I like my Honda Civic but this car would use less gas I would buy something smaller to get the gas mileage benefit.  They are less expensive too, making a Prius a bit less desirable.  But unfortunately I live in the land where bigger is deemed better.

Again, Imperial gallons are bigger than US gallons and EPA testing methodology is typically harsher than in Europe. If you look at user-reported data on Fuelly (which allows you to correct for units) the Ibiza is only slightly better than a Civic.
https://www.fuelly.com/car/seat/ibiza
https://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/civic

And if you don't trust that, you can also just look up the Europe/UK economy numbers for the Civic for a more direct comparison. According to carbuyer.co.uk the Ibiza gets 48.7, 53.3, or 54.3 mpg and the Civic gets 56.6 mpg (UK gallons). So actually officially the Civic is more efficient than the Ibiza (at least for the most current models).
https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/seat/ibiza/mpg
https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/honda/civic/mpg

[nereo]

It follows that the U.S. land of land yachts could cut its fuel consumption in half just by changing the types of cars we drive. Going from a 20mpg SUV/Prettytruck to a ~40mpg commuter car (like an improved version of a gasoline car like the Fit or a hybrid) should end all complaints about gas prices. Even at $10/gallon, 1,000 miles of transportation is still relatively cheap in a ~40mpg car.

My 10 year old car takes ~6 liter per 100km, which is 39mpg. And that is cheap, old technology, not something super expensive.
But you can't roll coal.

The US version of the Fit / Jazz uses about 33mpg or 7L per 100km. However, the Australian version is said to burn 6.1L/100k and owners of pre-hybrid UK versions report 51mpg or 4.6L/100k.

It is typical for cars to have a bigger engine, more tuned for acceleration in the US market. There is a mindset in the US that the only reason a person would want a small car is if they want something sporty to drive, whereas people elsewhere seem to have more common sense. 

However there might be something wrong with this math because all the non-hybrid Fits/Jazzes I compared have a 1.5L gasoline engine. How could the UK Fit/Jazz with the same engine be de-tuned to the extent it got over 30% better fuel economy?

UK gallons are bigger than US gallons by 20%. The rest of the difference is probably different testing methodology.

Jesus Christ, this information makes me want to go all-metric ASAP.

If you really want to be annoyed @ChpBstrd -consider “how many gallons are in a barrel?”  Both a gallon and a barrel are official units of measurement in several industries.  A barrel of crude oil is 42 US gallons or almost 35 imperial gallons. But if it’s a barrel of beer it’s 31 US gallons or about 26 imperial. Most US distilleries use 53 gallon barrels for whiskey and bourbon, but wine can range considerably between 30 and 60 gallons. And if you order a barrel of almost any refined oil, lubricant or solvent it will be 55 US gallons (about 48 imperial).

[ChpBstrd]

It follows that the U.S. land of land yachts could cut its fuel consumption in half just by changing the types of cars we drive. Going from a 20mpg SUV/Prettytruck to a ~40mpg commuter car (like an improved version of a gasoline car like the Fit or a hybrid) should end all complaints about gas prices. Even at $10/gallon, 1,000 miles of transportation is still relatively cheap in a ~40mpg car.

My 10 year old car takes ~6 liter per 100km, which is 39mpg. And that is cheap, old technology, not something super expensive.
But you can't roll coal.

The US version of the Fit / Jazz uses about 33mpg or 7L per 100km. However, the Australian version is said to burn 6.1L/100k and owners of pre-hybrid UK versions report 51mpg or 4.6L/100k.

It is typical for cars to have a bigger engine, more tuned for acceleration in the US market. There is a mindset in the US that the only reason a person would want a small car is if they want something sporty to drive, whereas people elsewhere seem to have more common sense. 

However there might be something wrong with this math because all the non-hybrid Fits/Jazzes I compared have a 1.5L gasoline engine. How could the UK Fit/Jazz with the same engine be de-tuned to the extent it got over 30% better fuel economy?

UK gallons are bigger than US gallons by 20%. The rest of the difference is probably different testing methodology.

Jesus Christ, this information makes me want to go all-metric ASAP.

If you really want to be annoyed @ChpBstrd -consider “how many gallons are in a barrel?”  Both a gallon and a barrel are official units of measurement in several industries.  A barrel of crude oil is 42 US gallons or almost 35 imperial gallons. But if it’s a barrel of beer it’s 31 US gallons or about 26 imperial. Most US distilleries use 53 gallon barrels for whiskey and bourbon, but wine can range considerably between 30 and 60 gallons. And if you order a barrel of almost any refined oil, lubricant or solvent it will be 55 US gallons (about 48 imperial).

Make. It. Stop.