Author Topic: New home- Applicances questions  (Read 2296 times)

shortduck

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New home- Applicances questions
« on: February 06, 2023, 01:03:38 PM »
please move this thread to off-topic.

out new house is building up and I am in the market for getting new applicances.

Where should I see the rating other than CR?

2nd question - from where should I buy? Should I just buy from BB/ Home Depot like big box stores?

is there a Moustachian approach to it?

Your thoughts please.

Must_ache

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2023, 01:30:44 PM »
I would go to a big box store, but I would only buy what I need - or will truly appreciate.  I don't need a washing machine with 76 washing cycles or a fridge that shows me what food is inside when I knock on it like a door.

chemistk

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2023, 01:32:32 PM »
You'll need to spend a little time thinking about what you find important in an appliance, and it would also be helpful for you to know the size of the openings in your house for those appliances (unless you haven't finished the kitchen/laundry rooms yet and are waiting on appliances). Do you want a fridge with a top freezer, bottom freezer, or size freezer? Do you want black, stainless, white, or some other color? Do you need a gas or electric stove? Do you want a large or small washer and dryer?

Put a short list together of what you would prefer - window shop at appliance stores or HD/Lowe's to see how you like some features.

When you're ready to buy, your first place to look should be Marketplace, Craigslist, etc. Plenty of people post perfectly usable if not downright pristine appliances for sale because of a wide number of reasons. If you have time to look, I bet over the course of a few weeks you can pick up at least half of what you need for a tiny fraction of list price.

Next place to look should be scratch-and-dent stores. Sometimes the big box stores will have "Damaged" or floor model appliances out on discount, but you'll have better luck at stores which are dedicated to selling these. Most of the time, they're completely perfect except for some cosmetic damage (or at worst, a broken button or latch), again for a pretty big discount off list.

If you MUST buy new from a big box store, try and wait until they're running appliance sales (happens a few times a year). Definitely don't get sold on fancy tech or lights or colors - just look for what you need. The only other good reason to buy from a bigger store is the warranty you might be able to get. Costco will give you a pretty beefy warranty, even if they have a very limited selection.

A few more general points:

Avoid Samsung and LG appliances at all costs - they are notorious for failing right after the warranty period is over. Don't tempt yourself into buying one of these dirt cheap either, unless you're able to replace a compressor or main board yourself.

Try and steer clear of anything that relies too heavily on digital/non tactile controls. It's just another point of failure.

Go for a top-loading washer if you can. They may be less water efficient but they're also less likely to fail and there's fewer gaskets that need to be kept clean.

Don't just shop by rating, look at reviews across different platforms and see what people are saying about them when things go wrong. If a washer isn't cleaning clothes as well as someone would expect, that's a world of difference vs. 15 people whose control boards shorted out and they can't get them repaired out of warranty.

Hypersion

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Laura33

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2023, 01:55:08 PM »
Also:  ask your builder if they have a relationship with anyone.  A number of places will give "contractor discounts" that your builder might pass on to you (my favorite thing about our current contractor is that he just tells the places to give us the discount and doesn't mark it back up as long as we're doing the legwork and buying directly).

If not and you need to go to a store, compare big box to local guys (we have a local guy who matches big box prices and is infinitely better on service), and watch prices over the next few months (assuming you have time) so you can recognize when something's truly on sale (we did awesome on Black Friday deals last fall, even though we still won't need the appliances until probably April at best).  You can also sometimes get a good deal on a discontinued model if they're trying to get rid of them to make room for the new ones.

Must_ache

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2023, 02:08:50 PM »
chemistk: Samsung and LG most likely to break"

Hypersion: "I use jdpower to find the best products"

Must_ache ...looks up jdpower results:

Quote
French Door Refrigerator
LG (901) ranks highest in customer satisfaction among French door refrigerators. Frigidaire (879) ranks second.

Side-by-Side Refrigerator
Samsung (895) ranks highest in customer satisfaction among side-by-side refrigerators and is followed by LG (887).

I wouldn't trust JDPower Consumer satisfaction surveys.  I don't think that answers the reliability question, if the amount of JDPower awards that has been given to crappy US-built cars is any indication.

Also I wouldn't want whatever a contractor would put in, tends to be the cheapest piece of junk that ticks the box.  If you're hoping the appliance will last 20+ years you may as well buy something you like rather than try and save a buck and get something you're less content with.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2023, 02:12:09 PM by Must_ache »

reeshau

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2023, 02:37:33 PM »
Just to say: for the last couple of years, availability has been a big issue.  Look at what you want, but also see what they have.

That can lead to shopping around, too.  We were at a local appliance place; showroom was jam-packed with appliances, looked like hell.  Great! No money wasted on theming.  Our kind of place.  He was looking at Samsung's own internal system, and our fridge was not available in Texas for 3 months.

Went home, signed on to Best Buy.  Delivered in 2 days.

And yeah, a Samsung fridge.  Had one in our last place in the US, and loved it.  Current one passed 2 years, and hasn't had any issues.

dcheesi

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2023, 03:46:46 PM »
Avoid Samsung and LG appliances at all costs - they are notorious for failing right after the warranty period is over. Don't tempt yourself into buying one of these dirt cheap either, unless you're able to replace a compressor or main board yourself.
Seconded, at least for Samsung. Our Samsung dishwasher was a total lemon. And the Samsung fridge's icemaker broke on the same day said dishwasher was replaced. (Probably bad luck, combined with fiddling with the plumbing --but it's entertaining to imagine that it went on strike in solidarity with its comrade lol)

uniwelder

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2023, 04:06:24 PM »
please move this thread to off-topic.

This seems like a perfect on-topic MMM question.

2nd question - from where should I buy? Should I just buy from BB/ Home Depot like big box stores?

is there a Moustachian approach to it?

How far out are you from needing these appliances?  If you can, I'd wait until the Inflation Reduction Act incentives become available.  I hope thats in the next couple of months.  You could get up to $840 or so off an electric/induction stove, I think there's money off a heat pump clothes dryer, and you'd have to check into others.

Edited to add- also heat pump water heater.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 04:45:44 AM by uniwelder »

accolay

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2023, 02:49:36 AM »
I recently did a similar appliance search and I based my decisions on CR and this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRgbfxJ8MTQ

GilesMM

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2023, 05:53:43 AM »
Costco is THE place to buy appliances.  They have them in stock when they say they will, deliver will full service, extend the warranty to 2 years and are generally the gold standard these days. Prices are also very competitive. You can view all the kit on their web site and rank items by average rating with hundreds or thousands of reviews.  They offer electric kitchen packages since it is often nice if things match (fridge, stove, oven, and dw).


Use the exec card and get cash back at year end.  A big plus for major purchases.

chemistk

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2023, 06:16:56 AM »
Just to say: for the last couple of years, availability has been a big issue.  Look at what you want, but also see what they have.

That can lead to shopping around, too.  We were at a local appliance place; showroom was jam-packed with appliances, looked like hell.  Great! No money wasted on theming.  Our kind of place.  He was looking at Samsung's own internal system, and our fridge was not available in Texas for 3 months.

Went home, signed on to Best Buy.  Delivered in 2 days.

And yeah, a Samsung fridge.  Had one in our last place in the US, and loved it.  Current one passed 2 years, and hasn't had any issues.

The Korean appliances are definitely very snazzy, but they tend to prioritize tech over longevity. Both Samsung and LG pump out insane numbers of appliances, so there will be plenty of functional models, but the physical components within those models don't last nearly as long as they should. Some people go 10 years without an issue, others will have two different fridges fail in two years' time.

I wouldn't ever tell someone to never purchase a Samsung or LG appliance, but I would strongly advise that anyone doing so 1) go in with eyes wide open and 2) be diligent about the warranty information, with the added suggestion to purchase from somewhere that will extend the warranty.

dcheesi

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2023, 06:28:26 AM »
I should probably mention our experience trying to buy a dishwasher from HD. We were very specific about the installation schedule, since my wife WfH on the phone in the afternoon and can't have a lot of commotion in the background. The first guy assured us we could get it X time/date, only to be corrected by a more senior employee that no, it would have to be Y date/time based on their scheduling process.

Well friends, they were both wrong. I got a call from the delivery service (the big-boxes subcontract everything) saying that because there was plumbing involved, they would have to deliver the appliance one day, and only after that would we get a call from a totally different contractor to schedule the actual installation.

So they were going to drop off a large appliance in our tiny kitchen and just leave it there for days?! And no guarantee that the installer would work with our need to schedule things in the morning; all attempts to contact said installer failed (with the final straw being when I finally tracked down their number, only to be hung up on when they realized I was a customer.)

Needless to say, that order was cancelled. We went with an dedicated appliance store with its own installers, and it was all much smoother.

nereo

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2023, 07:20:08 AM »
as Chemistk said, kitchen appliances frequently pop up on CL/Marketplace at a fraction of retail, and often they are new or nearly new.

It amazes me how many people move into new homes and junk the pre-installed appliances because they don't like the look, or because they have their own from their last home, or because [reasons].  I've bought appliances for three homes, two apartments and a field station and I've had great luck finding appliances less than five years old and cost less than 1/3 of a new one from any big box store. Found one dishwasher with a stainless tub that still had the packing material inside.

IMO, two categories you can find with the greatest discounts on the used market are large kitchen appliances and heavy furniture.

GilesMM

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2023, 07:24:27 AM »
Just to say: for the last couple of years, availability has been a big issue.  Look at what you want, but also see what they have.

That can lead to shopping around, too.  We were at a local appliance place; showroom was jam-packed with appliances, looked like hell.  Great! No money wasted on theming.  Our kind of place.  He was looking at Samsung's own internal system, and our fridge was not available in Texas for 3 months.

Went home, signed on to Best Buy.  Delivered in 2 days.

And yeah, a Samsung fridge.  Had one in our last place in the US, and loved it.  Current one passed 2 years, and hasn't had any issues.

The Korean appliances are definitely very snazzy, but they tend to prioritize tech over longevity. Both Samsung and LG pump out insane numbers of appliances, so there will be plenty of functional models, but the physical components within those models don't last nearly as long as they should. Some people go 10 years without an issue, others will have two different fridges fail in two years' time.

I wouldn't ever tell someone to never purchase a Samsung or LG appliance, but I would strongly advise that anyone doing so 1) go in with eyes wide open and 2) be diligent about the warranty information, with the added suggestion to purchase from somewhere that will extend the warranty.


There is a huge difference between Samsung and LG, your anecdotal experience notwithstanding. LG are consistently ranked the MOST reliable brand these days. 


Yale Appliance uses actual repair data to rank appliances.  Their results are similar to Consumer Reports who also rank LG ahead of every other brand.
https://blog.yaleappliance.com/the-least-serviced-most-reliable-appliance-brands


As you say, LG also has the best tech and most features as a bonus to reliability.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2023, 08:32:24 AM »
Yale Appliance uses actual repair data to rank appliances.  Their results are similar to Consumer Reports who also rank LG ahead of every other brand.https://blog.yaleappliance.com/the-least-serviced-most-reliable-appliance-brands

It seems that the Yale report is based only the initial part of the bathtub curve so their report it is not inconsistent with Chemistk's statement that "they are notorious for failing right after the warranty period is over."
Quote
How We Calculate Appliance Reliability ... We calculate appliance reliability by dividing the products we serviced by the products we sold. For this article, we looked at the number of appliances sold and serviced from January 1, 2022 to December 31, 2022. Whenever a service technician is sent to your house, it counts as a service call. ... We will be in 130-150 homes today, fixing appliances less than a year old and under warranty.

chemistk

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2023, 08:38:25 AM »
Just to say: for the last couple of years, availability has been a big issue.  Look at what you want, but also see what they have.

That can lead to shopping around, too.  We were at a local appliance place; showroom was jam-packed with appliances, looked like hell.  Great! No money wasted on theming.  Our kind of place.  He was looking at Samsung's own internal system, and our fridge was not available in Texas for 3 months.

Went home, signed on to Best Buy.  Delivered in 2 days.

And yeah, a Samsung fridge.  Had one in our last place in the US, and loved it.  Current one passed 2 years, and hasn't had any issues.

The Korean appliances are definitely very snazzy, but they tend to prioritize tech over longevity. Both Samsung and LG pump out insane numbers of appliances, so there will be plenty of functional models, but the physical components within those models don't last nearly as long as they should. Some people go 10 years without an issue, others will have two different fridges fail in two years' time.

I wouldn't ever tell someone to never purchase a Samsung or LG appliance, but I would strongly advise that anyone doing so 1) go in with eyes wide open and 2) be diligent about the warranty information, with the added suggestion to purchase from somewhere that will extend the warranty.


There is a huge difference between Samsung and LG, your anecdotal experience notwithstanding. LG are consistently ranked the MOST reliable brand these days. 


Yale Appliance uses actual repair data to rank appliances.  Their results are similar to Consumer Reports who also rank LG ahead of every other brand.
https://blog.yaleappliance.com/the-least-serviced-most-reliable-appliance-brands


As you say, LG also has the best tech and most features as a bonus to reliability.

That is an interesting and informative snapshot, but much like CR, they're not really looking at what's happening to the appliance in 10 years. I'd be happier with the data they publish if they had a breakdown on the # of units serviced in the area, and the average of the unit being serviced. Somewhat splitting hairs, but also somewhat important for context. It's also important to note that regional data can be skewed towards one brand over others and towards different modes of failure. How do the same appliances fare operating in climates that are warmer and more humid year-round?

This is much of what has driven my apprehensions about LG:

https://www.lgfridgesettlement.com/covered-models.php

Having class action lawsuits filed over faulty compressors across a huge range of fridges over a number of years isn't a good look, and I'd still be wary of their products even today. But I also don't care enough to make blanket claims and I'd be happy to recommend new LG products if they have indeed improved the quality of arguably the single-most important component in a fridge.

At the end of the day though, considering the site we're on, I don't necessarily think LG products have nearly as much value as some more basic models. They generally seem to be a little to a lot more expensive vs. other models with a similar configuration, and I think it would be counterproductive to recommend features of an appliance over functionality. The same goes with Samsung - both sell many of their appliances feature-first, but what we need to consider is the ability of that appliance to function over its intended lifespan. Having a component fail, be it a compressor or a smart display, 5-8 years after purchase defeats the point of making the investment in the thing in the first place.

Personally, I think the best way to go long-term are models with no smart displays, no bluetooth or WiFi, no ice makers, no water dispensers (or to leave both unconnected) - just a basic appliance that does what you need it to do, reliably, for 15+ years.

Scandium

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2023, 08:58:10 AM »
Personally, I think the best way to go long-term are models with no smart displays, no bluetooth or WiFi, no ice makers, no water dispensers (or to leave both unconnected) - just a basic appliance that does what you need it to do, reliably, for 15+ years.

If these exist I'd be happy to hear about it. Except for ones you find along the side of the road I guess..
Ok, to be fair we got a new fridge with no screen or waterfilter, partly for this reason. But it's hard to find. Same with stoves, microwave, washer. They all have screens, mainboards etc.

I also read good and bad about LG. But if not them, what's the alterative? Sometimes LG is the most reliable, then there are negative reviews. But the american brands are consistently garbage! I'm not getting a Kenmore.. So what's left, German? My Bosch dishwasher broke after 3 years.. Miele came out poorly in the Yale appliance test. Pay $8500 for some designer range? Wolf or Sub-zero fridge?
TLDR: all modern appliance suck.

I guess you can check "buy for life" subreddit, but usually you get what you pay for.
Learn to fix things. I repaired my LG dryer for $25.

sonofsven

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2023, 09:06:37 AM »
So, the last four houses I built I got the appliances from :
Home Depot
Costco
Costco
Appliance Connection (online retailer)

Of them all I would rec Costco, they unfortunately didn't have what I needed so I went with Appliance Connection.

If buying online, even from Costco, be very careful regarding the delivery. I've refused deliveries because of obvious damage that, if I had accepted, would have put me in the situation of having to deal with the online seller to repair it.
Better to refuse and wait for a new, undamaged one, but be sure to read the fine print carefully.

GilesMM

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2023, 09:11:41 AM »
Yale Appliance uses actual repair data to rank appliances.  Their results are similar to Consumer Reports who also rank LG ahead of every other brand.https://blog.yaleappliance.com/the-least-serviced-most-reliable-appliance-brands

It seems that the Yale report is based only the initial part of the bathtub curve so their report it is not inconsistent with Chemistk's statement that "they are notorious for failing right after the warranty period is over."
Quote
How We Calculate Appliance Reliability ... We calculate appliance reliability by dividing the products we serviced by the products we sold. For this article, we looked at the number of appliances sold and serviced from January 1, 2022 to December 31, 2022. Whenever a service technician is sent to your house, it counts as a service call. ... We will be in 130-150 homes today, fixing appliances less than a year old and under warranty.


I don't see any evidence for appliances being top ranked during the initial period then abruptly dying after the warranty expires.  Quite to the contrary, most mechanical things that are going to have a problem tend to have initial quality problems also.  If initial quality is strong, longer quality follows.

GilesMM

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2023, 09:13:06 AM »
Personally, I think the best way to go long-term are models with no smart displays, no bluetooth or WiFi, no ice makers, no water dispensers (or to leave both unconnected) - just a basic appliance that does what you need it to do, reliably, for 15+ years.

If these exist I'd be happy to hear about it. Except for ones you find along the side of the road I guess..
Ok, to be fair we got a new fridge with no screen or waterfilter, partly for this reason. But it's hard to find. Same with stoves, microwave, washer. They all have screens, mainboards etc.

I also read good and bad about LG. But if not them, what's the alterative? Sometimes LG is the most reliable, then there are negative reviews. But the american brands are consistently garbage! I'm not getting a Kenmore.. So what's left, German? My Bosch dishwasher broke after 3 years.. Miele came out poorly in the Yale appliance test. Pay $8500 for some designer range? Wolf or Sub-zero fridge?
TLDR: all modern appliance suck.

I guess you can check "buy for life" subreddit, but usually you get what you pay for.
Learn to fix things. I repaired my LG dryer for $25.


I can't see buying an appliance today based on the reliability of one made 10-15 years ago.

Villanelle

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2023, 09:19:09 AM »
the Mustachian approach might be to just search Marketplace, Buy Nothing, etc. and pounce when you find a deal, regardless of make and model. 

MMMarbleheader

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2023, 09:22:26 AM »
Check your employee benefits and see if you have any corporate pricing with an appliance company. We have access to the GE corporate store and they crush the prices anywhere. Plus sales throughout the year

sonofsven

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2023, 09:32:04 AM »
the Mustachian approach might be to just search Marketplace, Buy Nothing, etc. and pounce when you find a deal, regardless of make and model.
This is what I did for my own home, but it was through my realtor. She knew I had rentals and was always horse trading appliances. Someone was getting forclosed on and was selling everything they could out of the house first; I got some good deals and they got some cash. Over fifteen years later the fridge and dishwasher I put in my place are still going strong.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2023, 10:32:14 AM »
Yale Appliance uses actual repair data to rank appliances.  Their results are similar to Consumer Reports who also rank LG ahead of every other brand.https://blog.yaleappliance.com/the-least-serviced-most-reliable-appliance-brands

It seems that the Yale report is based only the initial part of the bathtub curve so their report it is not inconsistent with Chemistk's statement that "they are notorious for failing right after the warranty period is over."
Quote
How We Calculate Appliance Reliability ... We calculate appliance reliability by dividing the products we serviced by the products we sold. For this article, we looked at the number of appliances sold and serviced from January 1, 2022 to December 31, 2022. Whenever a service technician is sent to your house, it counts as a service call. ... We will be in 130-150 homes today, fixing appliances less than a year old and under warranty.
I don't see any evidence for appliances being top ranked during the initial period then abruptly dying after the warranty expires.  Quite to the contrary, most mechanical things that are going to have a problem tend to have initial quality problems also.  If initial quality is strong, longer quality follows.

I'm not sure how strong of a correlation there will be between initial defects and longevity in terms of appliances. At least in terms of cars, the correlation appears to be quite weak, but I guess time will tell if Buick and Dodge [1] overtake Honda and Toyota [2] as being known for long lasting cars.

chemistk

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2023, 11:00:05 AM »
Personally, I think the best way to go long-term are models with no smart displays, no bluetooth or WiFi, no ice makers, no water dispensers (or to leave both unconnected) - just a basic appliance that does what you need it to do, reliably, for 15+ years.

If these exist I'd be happy to hear about it. Except for ones you find along the side of the road I guess..
Ok, to be fair we got a new fridge with no screen or waterfilter, partly for this reason. But it's hard to find. Same with stoves, microwave, washer. They all have screens, mainboards etc.

I also read good and bad about LG. But if not them, what's the alterative? Sometimes LG is the most reliable, then there are negative reviews. But the american brands are consistently garbage! I'm not getting a Kenmore.. So what's left, German? My Bosch dishwasher broke after 3 years.. Miele came out poorly in the Yale appliance test. Pay $8500 for some designer range? Wolf or Sub-zero fridge?
TLDR: all modern appliance suck.

I guess you can check "buy for life" subreddit, but usually you get what you pay for.
Learn to fix things. I repaired my LG dryer for $25.

You pretty much summed it up, but that's also an overgeneralization.

The reality is that most appliances will work for most people, most of the time. One of the things I learned from my in-laws chewing through four high end dishwashers in 10 years was that it's very important to have options for repair - both DIY and professional. All of the failures are equally as much the fault of the way they used the appliance as much as internal failures. The first dishwasher that crapped out was a Miele, and they had to wait weeks to get it repaired because there were only 2 formally trained Miele techs in the region. The tech came out once to diagnose an issue, and had the part ordered. He couldn't come back for almost 10 days because of his schedule.

Some brands are sorely underrepresented in available service technicians in some areas, so it would be worthwhile to check on what the local appliance shops will be willing to service. But it's also just as important to recognize when and how to DIY a repair, and when there's complex technology involved, that process can be difficult-to-impossible without specific equipment.

It's definitely true that the "domestic" brands are equally as bad at times as the Korean, or German brands. A lot of that has to do with where parts are sourced and where final assembly takes place. I don't have any good recommendations for mitigating the downsides of most brands suffering unnecessary failures, other than to make sure that parts and service can be had locally.

 

reeshau

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2023, 11:27:12 AM »
I'm not sure how strong of a correlation there will be between initial defects and longevity in terms of appliances. At least in terms of cars, the correlation appears to be quite weak, but I guess time will tell if Buick and Dodge [1] overtake Honda and Toyota [2] as being known for long lasting cars.

Actually, the whole auto parts service side is based on this correlation.  Making parts a few at a time is not a profitable venture.  When production ends, major parts have a "lifetime build," with volumes based on repair data to date, and then sit on the shelf, waiting for the day they are called in.  There are some exceptions where parts are complex enough to be remanufactured, and put back in service.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2023, 11:52:07 AM »
I'm not sure how strong of a correlation there will be between initial defects and longevity in terms of appliances. At least in terms of cars, the correlation appears to be quite weak, but I guess time will tell if Buick and Dodge [1] overtake Honda and Toyota [2] as being known for long lasting cars.

Actually, the whole auto parts service side is based on this correlation.  Making parts a few at a time is not a profitable venture.  When production ends, major parts have a "lifetime build," with volumes based on repair data to date, and then sit on the shelf, waiting for the day they are called in.  There are some exceptions where parts are complex enough to be remanufactured, and put back in service.

You're conflating "repair data to date" with "initial defects." Those are not the same.

GilesMM

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2023, 01:47:02 PM »
Yale Appliance uses actual repair data to rank appliances.  Their results are similar to Consumer Reports who also rank LG ahead of every other brand.https://blog.yaleappliance.com/the-least-serviced-most-reliable-appliance-brands

It seems that the Yale report is based only the initial part of the bathtub curve so their report it is not inconsistent with Chemistk's statement that "they are notorious for failing right after the warranty period is over."
Quote
How We Calculate Appliance Reliability ... We calculate appliance reliability by dividing the products we serviced by the products we sold. For this article, we looked at the number of appliances sold and serviced from January 1, 2022 to December 31, 2022. Whenever a service technician is sent to your house, it counts as a service call. ... We will be in 130-150 homes today, fixing appliances less than a year old and under warranty.
I don't see any evidence for appliances being top ranked during the initial period then abruptly dying after the warranty expires.  Quite to the contrary, most mechanical things that are going to have a problem tend to have initial quality problems also.  If initial quality is strong, longer quality follows.

I'm not sure how strong of a correlation there will be between initial defects and longevity in terms of appliances. At least in terms of cars, the correlation appears to be quite weak, but I guess time will tell if Buick and Dodge [1] overtake Honda and Toyota [2] as being known for long lasting cars.

I understand it to be quite strong for cars. Have you seen data suggesting otherwise?

Villanelle

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2023, 03:07:07 PM »
the Mustachian approach might be to just search Marketplace, Buy Nothing, etc. and pounce when you find a deal, regardless of make and model.
This is what I did for my own home, but it was through my realtor. She knew I had rentals and was always horse trading appliances. Someone was getting forclosed on and was selling everything they could out of the house first; I got some good deals and they got some cash. Over fifteen years later the fridge and dishwasher I put in my place are still going strong.

My parents live in a 55+ community and there very very frequent estate sales, or just individual items being sold, when the kids come in and clean out mom's house after she passes.  You can get appliances very cheaply, along with many other items.  It would be a fantastic way to furnish a vacation (or furnished) rental, or for a young person just starting out.  Many of the sales are handled by agencies, which take a significant profit and charge more.  By the last few hours of the second day, they are usually willing to drop prices a lot.  That holds true for the private sales as well, though they start at a much more reasonable point in most cases. 

Just Joe

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2023, 08:51:35 AM »
Personally, I think the best way to go long-term are models with no smart displays, no bluetooth or WiFi, no ice makers, no water dispensers (or to leave both unconnected) - just a basic appliance that does what you need it to do, reliably, for 15+ years.

If these exist I'd be happy to hear about it. Except for ones you find along the side of the road I guess..
Ok, to be fair we got a new fridge with no screen or waterfilter, partly for this reason. But it's hard to find. Same with stoves, microwave, washer. They all have screens, mainboards etc.

I also read good and bad about LG. But if not them, what's the alterative? Sometimes LG is the most reliable, then there are negative reviews. But the american brands are consistently garbage! I'm not getting a Kenmore.. So what's left, German? My Bosch dishwasher broke after 3 years.. Miele came out poorly in the Yale appliance test. Pay $8500 for some designer range? Wolf or Sub-zero fridge?
TLDR: all modern appliance suck.

I guess you can check "buy for life" subreddit, but usually you get what you pay for.
Learn to fix things. I repaired my LG dryer for $25.

TLDR: our experiences don't match your's at all.

We've generally bought Kenmore and kept them 15+ years and never had a repair call. My relatives bought Samsung and quickly had issues - fridge and washing machine for example. Then when we've visited we've used their laundry machines without any of the issues our relatives reported i.e. relatives maybe doing something wrong or their expectations are very different. Perhaps like a person calling a car a POS when that POS has faithfully delivered reliable service without excessive maintenance costs but isn't "desirable" or flashy. We own a couple of those.

For us Kenmore has been our go-to brand (RIP Sears, gone from here). Our other favorite has been Whirlpool appliances. We buy middle of the road features, avoid screens and IoT features. Always choose knobs. With ice makers and with water dispensers. Top loader washers.

Our current Kenmore appliances came with the house we purchased and are nearing ~15 years old. Oven and MW are good, stove insert has cracked, ice dispenser has failed but ice maker works great, dish washer looks rough but works great - way too much plastic in that DW door, can't believe it doesn't leak. Someone will get these appliances cheap and I think they have life left in them. I'll be selling them for $25-50 for the fridge, $25-50 for the ovens, give the dishwasher away, cooktop is going to the scrap metal bin. Perfect for someone with a low budget and a dead appliance to replace.

Remodeling the kitchen soon and have nice Samsung appliances already purchased and waiting in the garage. Fingers crossed.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2023, 10:38:38 AM by Just Joe »

Scandium

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2023, 12:37:42 PM »
We've generally bought Kenmore and kept them 15+ years and never had a repair call.

Have you bought Kenmore, whirlpool in the 2010s and had them for 15+ years without issue..? :p
Appliances bought in the last few years are very different from those from the 1990s, or even the 2000s. I also had a GE stove from 1997, it worked ok for a long time. Our fridge went 1995-2015. But today in general the quality is worse, but also everything is way more complex now! Not just electronics or screens, but features that make dishwashers use less water or electricity, stoves faster, microwaves more powerful, steam this or that etc.
(for example; yes if you have a top load washer it's much simpler, and thus more reliable, than front-load. But they also use much more water/electric and are rougher on clothing).

TLDR you can't say your 1990s kenmore lasted longer than a 2018 LG, therefore Kenmore is a better brand. 

ixtap

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2023, 12:40:47 PM »
I would go to a big box store, but I would only buy what I need - or will truly appreciate.  I don't need a washing machine with 76 washing cycles or a fridge that shows me what food is inside when I knock on it like a door.

Super Bowl host even said he doesn't get it, but I did point out it might be useful if you had 3 teenagers in the house.

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2023, 02:48:58 PM »
We've generally bought Kenmore and kept them 15+ years and never had a repair call.

Have you bought Kenmore, whirlpool in the 2010s and had them for 15+ years without issue..? :p
Appliances bought in the last few years are very different from those from the 1990s, or even the 2000s. I also had a GE stove from 1997, it worked ok for a long time. Our fridge went 1995-2015. But today in general the quality is worse, but also everything is way more complex now! Not just electronics or screens, but features that make dishwashers use less water or electricity, stoves faster, microwaves more powerful, steam this or that etc.
(for example; yes if you have a top load washer it's much simpler, and thus more reliable, than front-load. But they also use much more water/electric and are rougher on clothing).

TLDR you can't say your 1990s kenmore lasted longer than a 2018 LG, therefore Kenmore is a better brand.

Top Load washers are also far less likely to kill young children, if you have or plan to have those in your house.  Just something to add to their list of benefits, courtesy of my sister, the coroner, who has seen this happen more than once, and who consequently very strongly encourages all her friends with young kids to always go top load.  Interesting hiding place, with locking door, that fills with water and tumbles around?  Bad environment for a child. 

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2023, 03:27:37 PM »
I made my short list from CR and then decided what features I wanted. I bought the actual things new, open box from eBay. My appliances have a few cosmetic dings that I don’t really notice, and I saved over $1k between my dishwasher and ovens. That is a win in my book.

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2023, 12:07:25 PM »
My post will be pointless to 98% of readers but because I recently built 2 new kitchens I will chime in.

If I had to do it all over again I would go to an appliance store that carries  medium to high end appliances.

My experiences with the big box stores were chaotic during Covid. They could not keep sales folks.  the appliance stores WERE staffed consistently.

My #1 requirement for stoves, two of them, was aesthetics. Yes, how they look was key. So knowing what I know now I would have simply gone into an appliance store and said “hey there appliance guy, I want a blue stove with gas oven for my condo. I want a red stove for my other house. Whatcha got?”

I found after months of combing online reviews, and later visiting stores, I learned manufacturers offer many colors in stoves but do not promote that fact. I ended up buying both stoves due to samples sitting in the showroom. The big box stores never have anything interesting on the floor.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2023, 11:52:56 AM by iris lily »

Just Joe

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2023, 11:26:49 AM »
I made my short list from CR and then decided what features I wanted. I bought the actual things new, open box from eBay. My appliances have a few cosmetic dings that I don’t really notice, and I saved over $1k between my dishwasher and ovens. That is a win in my book.

Definitely a good strategy, we bought a Kenmore fridge with a minor dent that the side cabinet hid. 50% off from the big box store. Lasted 15 years. We moved it to our current house and it failed to cool afterwards. Donated it to the local used appliance store who hopefully got some parts or repaired it.

Since many folks move often, I've wondered if appliance manufacturers think an appliance only needs to last a decade.

RetiredAt63

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2023, 01:37:35 PM »
I made my short list from CR and then decided what features I wanted. I bought the actual things new, open box from eBay. My appliances have a few cosmetic dings that I don’t really notice, and I saved over $1k between my dishwasher and ovens. That is a win in my book.

Definitely a good strategy, we bought a Kenmore fridge with a minor dent that the side cabinet hid. 50% off from the big box store. Lasted 15 years. We moved it to our current house and it failed to cool afterwards. Donated it to the local used appliance store who hopefully got some parts or repaired it.

Since many folks move often, I've wondered if appliance manufacturers think an appliance only needs to last a decade.

Hmm, here appliances usually stay with the house.  So one appliance could go through several owners, depending on turnover rate.  I've owned 4 houses and only bought one washer/dryer set (first house) and a refrigerator (last house).  Freezers are more likely to move with the owners because they are not usually part of the sale.  I've also gained (and left behind) one piano and 2 pool tables because they came with the houses.

Just Joe

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Re: New home- Applicances questions
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2023, 12:57:53 PM »
We bought the house and it had old appliances. Beige. When the fridge died, we bought a replacement beige fridge on clearance. However when we replaced the old range, we committed to stainless and followed through with a stainless dishwasher with it needed replacement. The fridge was then an odd duck.

See when we were prepping the house for sale, we found a nice mid-price fridge that matched the other two appliances and took the beige fridge with us.

Unfortunately, when we finally tried to plug it in at the new (used) house and use the fridge, it would not cool. Off to the used appliance store it went b/c otherwise it was a good appliance that could be stripped of parts or repaired. I hope it benefited someone that way.

Our current appliances are apparently aware of our impending remodel. ;)

Microwave door spring popped and now the fridge water dispenser has started leaking in just the past two days. That goes along with the cracked island cooktop (year ago) and the failed in-door ice dispenser. Moving the old fridge to its new position in mere minutes while we start demo.