Author Topic: Moving to the U.S., need some advice (Read 15778 times)

kms · « **on:** August 08, 2014, 07:36:39 AM »

Quick word of warning, this is going to be a rather long post with some background information, so thanks in advance for reading ;-)

My wife and I will be moving to the U.S. within the next year or two. We've won the green card lottery and since I've already lived abroad (went to grad school in Detroit) and it's been her life long dream to live in the U.S. some day we've decided to take the plunge. The visa interview will be somewhen between February and May 2015, and we plan to move somewhen in the summer of 2015.

The thing is that right now, we're both very well settled in Europe. We both have nice jobs that pay very well (combined income 100k €/year) and no kids, no debt, and no financial obligations whatsoever. We are thus absolutely free to do whatever and go wherever we please. We both speak English fluently, as well as other languages (I speak German, Polish, and French; she speaks German and Bulgarian) and both have a couple of years experience in our respective fields. I work in IT (Linux/Unix specialist), she's a patent attorney, and we both have university degrees, albeit not in those fields – I have a master's degree in English, she has a master's degree in Anthropology. We're in our early 30s, live a rather frugal life right now with a savings rate of roughly 50-60%, and we'll have a stache of about 60,000€ in a year. Suffice it to say that we're both a bit scared of the things to come, because our future here in Europe is safe and sound. Which is why I've decided to turn to you for advice.

Since we love traveling and do it quite extensively our plan is to take six months off and travel the U.S., Canada, and Mexico by motorcycle first. Our travel budget will be around US $10,000 which will leave us with savings somewhere in the vicinity of US $80,000, depending on the exchange rate. After that we'll start looking for jobs in our respective fields. We are fully aware that the first couple of years might be hard and that we'll end up losing at least part of our savings to get everything sorted out at first, but we're also scared that we might end up losing everything. Our main concern is obviously work – will we be able to find well paid jobs within a couple of weeks or months in our respective fields or will we have to start from the very bottom of the well and work our way up since we have no work history in the U.S.? What about our degrees – will it be a problem that I don't have a degree in engineering or IT even though at the point of immigration I will have more than 10 years or experience working in IT Consulting and IT Management? My wife will only have three years of experience working as a patent attorney secretary, will that be a problem for her? She does have a formal education in that field which allows her to legally work in that field in Europe but we have absolutely no idea how much that would be worth in the United States. Also, while my English is fluent and people mistake me for an American whenever they hear me talk (I usually get placed in the mid west) she has a very noticeable accent and isn't as fluent as she would like to be. Her English used to be a lot better though, and we're both certain that once she's forced to use it every day she'll quickly improve, but she'll probably never get rid of her accent – will that be a problem? Is the fact that we both speak multiple languages an advantage or is it worth nothing whatsoever?

Another concern is that we have absolutely no idea where we would like to live. The only condition is that it has to be some place warm – we're both so fed up with the weather in northern Europe that we would definitely prefer warmth. We don't mind winter as long as there are real summers, something that northern Europe has a distinct lack of. We live in a big city right now and definitely prefer that to rural areas, but cities can be quite expensive. Any advice on what areas might be most suitable for us? The ideal place would be warm all year round and have plenty of jobs available for IT professionals as well as patent attorney secretaries ;-)

I'm sure that there must be people on these forums that will be able to give us advice and to take away our (ill-founded) angst. Are we crazy to do this? Do the risks outweigh the chances this bald move might hold for us?

Tetsuya Hondo · « **Reply #1 on:** August 08, 2014, 08:18:50 AM »

It's certainly a risk, given that it sounds like you're in a very good situation right now financially and with your careers. However, how would you feel if you didn't do it? Would you regret it?

As for where to live, can you tell us what else you need in a city? How large? Any amenities? Public transportation? Food needs? How cosmopolitan and diverse? What exactly are you hoping to get out of the experience? Or, why do you want to live in the US? Etc. Much of the US can offer you warm summers, so more detail could help narrow down the list.

If you want to keep expenses low, like the warmth, and want to keep expenses (relatively) low, Austin, Texas and Raleigh, North Carolina might be worth a look. However, there's probably less patent attorney work than in larger cities. Washington, DC has a bit of European flair, has large expat communities which add a lot of culture and interest, a great food scene, large demand for IT work, patent attorney work, and warm, sultry summers. However, it's fairly expensive; yet the jobs may pay more than in other places.

Why not use your road trip by motorcycle as a chance to scout out potential cities? Speaking of, travelling by motorcycle in Mexico may not be the best idea unless you stick to Baja California, which is worth a look. Perhaps others can weigh in on the safety of this, but it's not something I would be eager to do.

rachael talcott · « **Reply #2 on:** August 08, 2014, 08:52:14 AM »

The US job market is still pretty bad. I know highly educated and experienced people who have lost their jobs and had months to years without work. One friend in IT was out of work for about 6 months. He eventually found a job that requires him to be away from home weekdays. The legal field is very bad, at least for lawyers. I don't know about secretarial positions, but your wife would probably need to take some classes to learn how the US legal system is different from Europe.

Your flexibility as to location will be a huge help in finding a job, though. Most of the US can offer you "real summers." Pay attention to cost of living, especially of housing. Some of the biggest areas for IT also have extremely high housing costs.

The plan sounds like so much fun, I think if I were in your shoes I'd take the risk.

kms · « **Reply #3 on:** August 08, 2014, 08:59:54 AM »

Thanks for your answers.

Quote from: Tetsuya Hondo on August 08, 2014, 08:18:50 AM

It's certainly a risk, given that it sounds like you're in a very good situation right now financially and with your careers. However, how would you feel if you didn't do it? Would you regret it?

We would definitely regret it. The opportunity to live and work in the U.S. is a once in a lifetime opportunity and not taking this chance would leave us wondering what might've happened if we would've done it. I live by the motto "at the end of your life you regret the things you haven't done, not the things you have done". After all, in case we do fail we can always come back but we would like to do everything we can to avoid this scenario.

Quote

As for where to live, can you tell us what else you need in a city? How large? Any amenities? Public transportation? Food needs? How cosmopolitan and diverse? What exactly are you hoping to get out of the experience? Or, why do you want to live in the US? Etc. Much of the US can offer you warm summers, so more detail could help narrow down the list.

If you want to keep expenses low, like the warmth, and want to keep expenses (relatively) low, Austin, Texas and Raleigh, North Carolina might be worth a look. However, there's probably less patent attorney work than in larger cities. Washington, DC has a bit of European flair, has large expat communities which add a lot of culture and interest, a great food scene, large demand for IT work, patent attorney work, and warm, sultry summers. However, it's fairly expensive; yet the jobs may pay more than in other places.

Public transportation would be nice but it's not a must-have. We don't own a car right now but we're willing to get one if necessary. Since we both love to ride our bikes that would certainly be a huge plus. Other than that, we're very open. It'd be nice if it was cosmopolitan but that's not a must, neither is diversity. Truth be told anything really will be a huge step and major change for us, so we're not very picky when it comes to these factors.

My former roommate lives in D.C. now and I've been in touch with him regarding the possibilites D.C. offers. I've also read good things about Houston, Chicago, and Sacramento.

Quote

Why not use your road trip by motorcycle as a chance to scout out potential cities? Speaking of, travelling by motorcycle in Mexico may not be the best idea unless you stick to Baja California, which is worth a look. Perhaps others can weigh in on the safety of this, but it's not something I would be eager to do.

Scouting out potential cities is part of the plan. And as far as Mexico goes - I've met dozens of people who've travelled across all of Mexico despite all warnings and had only good things to say about the country and its people. We've also been there ourselves. We've been warned about Mexico and loved it, we've been warned about Cambodia and loved it, we've been warned about Tunisia and loved it, we've been warned about Morocco and loved it, etc. In my experience, most reports about the dangers of other countries are greatly exaggerated. Long story short: you're more likely to get robbed and shot dead in America than in Mexico ;-)

Quote

The US job market is still pretty bad. I know highly educated and experienced people who have lost their jobs and had months to years without work. One friend in IT was out of work for about 6 months. He eventually found a job that requires him to be away from home weekdays. The legal field is very bad, at least for lawyers. I don't know about secretarial positions, but your wife would probably need to take some classes to learn how the US legal system is different from Europe.

Your flexibility as to location will be a huge help in finding a job, though. Most of the US can offer you "real summers." Pay attention to cost of living, especially of housing. Some of the biggest areas for IT also have extremely high housing costs.

Thanks, that's exactly what we're a bit afraid of. I'm hoping that flexibility is what'll help us to find jobs but it'll be hard if one of us finds a job some place where there's no way the other one will. We've been thinking about these classes for my wife, where would we inquire about these? Local college? Community college?

thefrugalnudists · « **Reply #4 on:** August 08, 2014, 09:05:03 AM »

You would find high paying jobs in your field in Boston and can easily live without a car in many of the neighborhoods here. However it is very expensive to live here and if you plan to have kids, day care and private schools will cost a small fortune. Public elementary schools in Boston are scarce.

Hugerat · « **Reply #5 on:** August 08, 2014, 09:39:07 AM »

I suppose a long post deserves a long answer. Of course, there isn't nearly enough space here to discuss this in its entirety. Moving to a country where you've never lived and worked before is hard, so your anxiety is completely normal. My wife and I have made a similar move (I'm American, she's German) so I do speak from experience.

The US, compared to many other places, is very easy. If you are persistent about it, and plan well, you will find that you can establish yourself very quickly here in both a job and an apartment. Your lack of a university degree in your field should not be a huge concern, as US employers will value your experience much more highly. Companies in the States tend to be less fixated on credentials and degrees than companies in Europe. Educated Europeans tend to be well-respected in the workplace. I don't know anything about your particular specialty, but there are likely plenty of areas you could land in and do perfectly well. Historically the biggest IT centers behind San Francisco are Seattle, Boston, and Austin, Texas. Plenty of other cities though have started to develop IT sectors and you could probably do very well in Washington DC, Raleigh Durham, Kansas City, Denver, Salt Lake, and many others.

Your wife will likely have more difficulty. I'm sure others can offer more advice about finding a job as a paralegal, but I suspect this will require more training, as she will not be terribly familiar with US law. This training can also be very expensive. Luckily, the US is probably the easiest country in the world for people wishing to change jobs, even to ones in which they have no formal training. If it looks like working in law will take too long and be too costly, she can try any number of jobs that interest her. Persistence will be the greatest asset.

You are not likely to find your language skills to be much of an advantage. It is possible that you may find a job such as software localization or translating, but most employers will consider this only a very mild "plus." Conversely, your wife need not worry about her accent. Provided you do not settle in an area with too much cultural insularity, Americans are used to hearing all kinds of English, including in the workplace.

There isn't much advice I can offer about where to settle, because the US is an extremely diverse place, and this should be based on your personal tastes. Climate, geography, culture, and cost of living varies immensely throughout the country. Traveling for 6 months beforehand is a great opportunity to visit a lot of places and get an idea of where you would like to live. The only piece of advice I would offer is to not get too fixated on climate and year-round temperature, as this can lead to choices that don't fit culturally or geographically. Any part of the continental US will have warm summer temperatures and many will have cold, brutal winters. What is your nationality? Maybe there is a city with a large community of people from your home country, which can ease the transition greatly. And if you want to move later, there is no country where that is easier.

Good luck!

rugorak · « **Reply #6 on:** August 08, 2014, 10:45:50 AM »

Define "real summers"? It can get get into the low to mid 30's C just about everywhere in the country and hotter in some places. Probably more important is the type of winters you are willing to deal with.

Jobs I think more come down to flexibility than anything else. As an IT sys admin I have never had much of an issue finding a job, just finding a job in places I would want to live. And that was better than what I had. With your stated experience and skill set you probably will not have much problem finding something somewhere. Will you want to live there or work there is something else though.

Colleges may be worth looking into. They may not pay as much as the private sector but usually the benefits are nice. They may have jobs for both of you as many universities do research so have a need for intellectual property work and they all have IT departments. Also many will be used to dealing with green card employees (visiting professors, etc) which may make things easier for you as well.

Spork · « **Reply #7 on:** August 08, 2014, 11:38:59 AM »

Just a little feedback from a linux buddy...

I'm an old fart and have done some sort of unix type work since the 80s. The jobs are out there. My own personal experience (this means: anecdotal evidence, not to be taken as hard fact!) is that degrees just don't matter in the Linux world. While I do have a CS degree, every place I've worked has one guy that rises to the top as THE GUY in the unix and/or security area. Every single one of them I've known was a guy without a degree. Maybe they were lucky. Maybe I'm taking a very narrow look. But they were always treated well and respected.

Another tidbit of personal experience: Location matters. You are probably looking for a larger city. Linux jobs in the small / developing towns are few and far between. Sure, there are some telecommute jobs (but that's not something I can speak authoritatively about.) I moved from large city to smaller city. The distance was 100 miles. The pay was about a 40% cut. And in the small town it took me about 3 years to find a job... so ... the cut started feeling like it was the best deal out there. I saw about one Linux job posted every 6 months in my area.... they were thin... and I was originally asking my big city salary.

Location also matters for housing. There are HUGE swings in housing costs between various cities. Do a little homework if you want to find areas with bargain housing. You may be talking an order of magnitude difference in price (with probably slightly lower salaries in the low cost markets.)

eil · « **Reply #8 on:** August 08, 2014, 02:02:54 PM »

I can echo Spork's sentiment about the job prospects for IT folk here in the U.S. The market is growing and good companies care not about formal education. They want to see that you have the skills and experience first and foremost. If you don't have many contacts in the U.S., you may have to settle for either a lower-paying job, or one that's not as fun or challenging. But as your social network grows, you'll eventually have your pick of rewarding, high-paying jobs. And it probably won't take as long as you think.

As for the accent and integration issue, if you target a mostly urban area, you won't have any problems. It's only the insular rural communities that have a notable mistrust of "outsiders".

Do some travelling here before settling down. It's a big country, try to find a place you're sure you'll like for 10 years or however long you want to stay. For instance, I'm pretty happy with where I live but the lack of decent scenery (southeast Michigan, near Detroit) and semi-harsh winters is a real drag sometimes. I definitely don't want to retire here.

katie · « **Reply #9 on:** August 08, 2014, 02:31:46 PM »

If you don't want cold weather, do not move to Chicago. Good luck!

brizna · « **Reply #10 on:** August 08, 2014, 04:35:15 PM »

Quote from: kms on August 08, 2014, 08:59:54 AM

We would definitely regret it. The opportunity to live and work in the U.S. is a once in a lifetime opportunity and not taking this chance would leave us wondering what might've happened if we would've done it. I live by the motto "at the end of your life you regret the things you haven't done, not the things you have done". After all, in case we do fail we can always come back but we would like to do everything we can to avoid this scenario.

Do you own a hammer? If so, you have a once in a life time opportunity to pick up that hammer and bash your head in. You really ought to consider it since you might regret having never done it. It'll heal eventually.

What do you think you'll find here that's worth the tremendous loss of security by leaving the EU?

Letj · « **Reply #11 on:** August 08, 2014, 05:46:07 PM »

Given your salary level and how well established you are in Europe, I would not move to the US unless I had a job in hand. I have known too many educated immigrants who have struggled to find jobs in this country, mostly because their credentials were not recognized here. I can tell you that I work for a large multinational corporation and university degrees are always a prerequisite for IT management positions. Your wife would have a hard time finding work as a paralegal and they don't make a lot of money; many of them make around $40K/year. She would definitely have to go back to school in a field that is in demand.I strongly encourage you to apply for jobs while still in Europe and test the waters out first before taking the leap.

American culture is vastly different from almost anywhere else; it would be quite an adjustment for you and your wife.

prof61820 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 08, 2014, 05:50:41 PM »

Quote from: Letj on August 08, 2014, 05:46:07 PM

Your wife would have a hard time finding work as a paralegal and they don't make a lot of money; many of them make around $40K/year.

I believe his wife is a trilingual patent attorney (a lawyer with a technical or scientific undergrad degree). Salaries for patent attorneys are very high in the US because it is a small niche field. Despite what others say, Chicago is a great City with four seasons....however, I would say with your skills you should look at more international cities like Washington DC and NY for better employment opportunities in your respective fields (and where your European language skills will be in higher demand).

G-dog · « **Reply #13 on:** August 08, 2014, 06:50:12 PM »

I am in the patent field, feel free to PM me. From your write up, it up is not clear whether your wife is a patent attorney, a paralegal, or a legal secretary in the patent field. My advice would probably vary a lot depending on which of these is correct.

Another option you may have is to just take a leave of absence from your jobs (or just a really long vacation) and travel the US to test this out. Try to pick a few spots and stay for long enough to get an idea of the culture, cost of living, etc. then if needed, you could stay in your jobs a bit longer, then move here later.

Roses · « **Reply #14 on:** August 09, 2014, 02:15:30 AM »

I don't think you'll have any problem finding a job in your field. Tech companies don't give a damn about degrees (even if they say 'advanced degree preferred' on job descriptions). Lots of hiring going on here in Seattle but our summers probably don't qualify :)

Can't comment on your wife's situation because I don't know the field. But I think anywhere that has jobs for you will have jobs for her since you're likely to end up in an urban area. Legal training might be an issue. Is she open to other fields? Accent shouldn't be a problem.

The languages probably won't help either of you in your fields. It might be different if you spoke Spanish or an Asian language. But anyway, you don't need that.

Check out my little sister's blog http://travelbugblues.com/ She motorcycled from the tip of Patagonia to the States and just got through Mexico - alone.

kms · « **Reply #15 on:** August 09, 2014, 03:18:42 AM »

Wow... thanks for all your input. First of all, we're from Germany. Second, not moving is not an option at this point anymore. We've made our decision and while we're obviously a bit worried about things to come we're also very excited. Third, because it may not have been clear in my initial post: I've already lived in the United States before, three years of grad school in Detroit, MI. However, I do not consider that a 100% authentic experience when it comes to living in the US because I didn't have to work (wasn't allowed to on my student visa anyway), I had a full scholarship, didn't have to go apartment hunting, spent most of my time on campus, etc. It was kinda the "U.S. light" experience. It did help in making that decision though because I really liked it and I've wanted to go back ever since I'd returned to Europe. I know this'll be a huge step but we want to take it and I know for sure we'll regret it for the rest of our lives if we don't.

What I mean by real summer is a summer that holds true to its meaning. This summer has been a major catastrophe - it's warm for a day or two (we're talking ~70-80F), then temperature drops to a chilling 50-60F and it starts to rain for a week. What I'm looking for is something more than that, and I know that summer even in the northernmost part of the United States is significantly better than it is over here in Germany. Like I said, I've experienced it first hand in Detroit. While the winters were harsh and brutal they were at least followed by warm weather that you could depend on. I don't mind winters as long as they're followed by warm weather ;-)

My wife is not a patent attorney, she's a patent attorney secretary. Special training for that is required over here, either three years after high school or a year if you've been to college or university and already have a degree. G-dog, thanks for your offer, I'll send you a message with some more details as soon as I can. Leave of absence from our jobs is not possible since that is neither very common over here nor will our bosses support it. Quitting will thus be unavoidable but we've made our peace with that. And in regards to your advice regarding the IT job market - thanks a lot, that does really help. To be honest it is precisely what I was hoping for. I don't mind a pay cut at all, infact I'm already counting on it anyway.

Roses: thanks for the link to your sister's blog, I'll check it out.

I hope I didn't miss anything.

Spork · « **Reply #16 on:** August 09, 2014, 09:28:29 AM »

Quote from: Letj on August 08, 2014, 05:46:07 PM

I can tell you that I work for a large multinational corporation and university degrees are always a prerequisite for IT management positions.

We're both anecdotal, but I worked 18 years at a large (100k+ employees) multinational corporation and degrees were never a prerequisite for IT management. Caveat: you'd not likely to be hired into IT management without one. BUT... If you were hired in as a senior level technical position and proved yourself, the lack of degree would not be an impediment. My current place of employment is much smaller and not multinational and the same rules would apply.

rachael talcott · « **Reply #17 on:** August 09, 2014, 11:02:54 AM »

Quote

Thanks, that's exactly what we're a bit afraid of. I'm hoping that flexibility is what'll help us to find jobs but it'll be hard if one of us finds a job some place where there's no way the other one will. We've been thinking about these classes for my wife, where would we inquire about these? Local college? Community college?

I think it would make the most sense to first find a place where you have a job and then start doing research about what sort of jobs are available for her. For example if there are not many legal secretary positions, but there are positions for administrative assistants, her skills would probably transfer, and she might not even need further training. Where I work, it is very common for spouses of employees to be hired as administrative assistants and trained on the job.

If she does need more education, as a permanent resident she would qualify for in-state tuition, as long as she met the residency requirements of the state system (in many states, you must live there for one year before qualifying for in-state rates).

sly · « **Reply #18 on:** August 09, 2014, 12:45:53 PM »

Hi, I did this moving back to the US with no job lined up thing. Well, I had a very good lead on a possible job, but no firm offer. In the end it worked out for me, I got the offer and I am now settled and making good $$$. However, and I realize it may sound hypocritical, I would seriously never recommend it to anyone. Being unemployed is hard enough, being unemployed in the midst of an long distance move with all sort of bills and expenses is terrifying. I was incredibly lucky that things worked out, I could very well have ended up on the street. I don't understand the comments about the US being an easy place to start fresh. You will show up in the US presumably with no credit score and no job. That means you might have to pay 12 months upfront to secure an apartment lease. You also can't lease a car so you will have to pay for that upfront (unless you live somewhere car free). In some places you will need 2 cars just to go about your daily tasks as a couple. So before you know it you might be down to 40K savings and you barely even landed. Trust me, the feeling of financial safety you have now will not decrease linearly with your net worth, it will simply completely evaporate when you realize that you need a job or you might not survive next year.

I am not trying to tell you what to do, just telling you what to expect and sharing some aspects of my own experience.

rugorak · « **Reply #19 on:** August 10, 2014, 08:11:33 AM »

Quote from: kms on August 09, 2014, 03:18:42 AM

What I mean by real summer is a summer that holds true to its meaning. This summer has been a major catastrophe - it's warm for a day or two (we're talking ~70-80F), then temperature drops to a chilling 50-60F and it starts to rain for a week. What I'm looking for is something more than that, and I know that summer even in the northernmost part of the United States is significantly better than it is over here in Germany. Like I said, I've experienced it first hand in Detroit. While the winters were harsh and brutal they were at least followed by warm weather that you could depend on. I don't mind winters as long as they're followed by warm weather ;-)

That pretty much is the entire country, except for maybe Alaska. I live in Upstate NY and even we get real summers by this definition. But we do joke that we only have 2 seasons, winter and summer. Some years it has started snowing as early as October and ended as late as April. Granted other years we have maybe had 7 days with snow.

Good luck!

Rebecca Stapler · « **Reply #20 on:** August 10, 2014, 09:07:44 AM »

I think that, where you find a bustling tech economy, you're likely to find a bustling patent firm market. So it's good that you're in complimentary fields. However, the two biggest tech and patents locations that come to mind are Silicon Valley and Boston -- and they're both expensive places to live. Silicon Valley is a bit more expensive, but it is warmer. You may actually miss having a winter! Boston has both seasons (although, here it's called "winter" and "road construction season").

My husband is a senior software engineer without a CS degree. He got there by working his ass off in his free time on projects that interested him. He developed a portfolio and got his first programming job that way. Then, he wanted to up the ante and worked on other projects in his free time and landed the sr. software engineer gig.

With that said, I think a great way to land a job in the US is to start picking up freelance clients in the US. My husband started off on elance, and then just picked up gigs by attending conferences in his field. I highly recommend some reconnoiter missions to US-based conferences and networking your butt off there.

I can speak to the legal field too, because I'm a lawyer. I can tell you from experience that firms will be extremely hesitant to hire a paralegal without US-based training. I worked at a Legal Aid, and no one wanted an intern (who would work for free) who was validictorian of her law school class because they didn't look past the fact that she was a lawyer in India. No one wanted to train her, but I took her on and had her doing secretarial things. She is a smart cookie and eventually got an LLM at NYU. I'm glad I took a "chance" on taking her on, but I don't think many people would if it were for a paying job.

If she would like to continue working in the legal field, it would benefit her a great deal if she took a US-based paralegal course. If she took the course in the city where you want to live, then they might be able to provide her with networking opportunities and career assistance. But if you want to minimize your downtime between jobs, I'm sure she can find paralegal certification courses online that she can take in Germany or while you're traveling in the US -- then follow it up with a local course so she can get connected to the local legal community.

How will you handle your immigration? Are you setting aside money to pay for your own immigration counsel, or hoping that your potential employer will pay for it? Some companies are open to it but most will not be.

Paul der Krake · « **Reply #21 on:** August 10, 2014, 10:23:20 AM »

Quote from: Rebecca Stapler on August 10, 2014, 09:07:44 AM

How will you handle your immigration? Are you setting aside money to pay for your own immigration counsel, or hoping that your potential employer will pay for it? Some companies are open to it but most will not be.

There's no need for immigration attorneys if you win the green card lottery since that automatically gives them the right to work the day they land. Maybe if they decide to become citizens years down the line.

Quote from: sly on August 09, 2014, 12:45:53 PM

I don't understand the comments about the US being an easy place to start fresh. You will show up in the US presumably with no credit score and no job. That means you might have to pay 12 months upfront to secure an apartment lease.

There are plenty of landlords who are happy to rent to you without having to pay 12 months upfront or even having an SSN. 50,000 people diversity green cards (the green card lottery) are awarded every year, and OP's profile is probably way better than 90% of the other lucky winners. He's also automatically eligible for loans to help him settle in. They'll be fine.

BlueHouse · « **Reply #22 on:** August 10, 2014, 11:36:14 AM »

When I read your post I immediately thought dc was the place, but I suppose there could be other locations too. I don't think you'll have any trouble finding jobs. There are jobs-a-plenty on the east coast.
I would start out by putting resumes up 3 months before you plan to start working -- then schedule interviews around your road trip, as you may be able to deduct the cost of looking for work.
Wife should apply to USPTO and any support contractors that support it. Language skills and international patent knowledge is a much needed skill!
Consider visiting The Goethe Institute in each city you travel. They have a very strong community and you can start networking for jobs there.
You will also be snapped up quickly, no doubt. The WDC area is very familiar with international guests and people who have technical and language skills are hugely in demand. Start here and then find a place where you WANT to live. We definitely have summers, but they're usually swelteringly hot and humid. We have a nice mix of seasons, IMO. I Like storms and snowfall and heat, so living in a one-season paradise is not for me.
Good luck und wilkommen!

Nords · « **Reply #23 on:** August 10, 2014, 01:37:30 PM »

Quote from: kms on August 08, 2014, 07:36:39 AM

We both speak English fluently, as well as other languages (I speak German, Polish, and French; she speaks German and Bulgarian) and both have a couple of years experience in our respective fields. I work in IT (Linux/Unix specialist), she's a patent attorney, and we both have university degrees, albeit not in those fields – I have a master's degree in English, she has a master's degree in Anthropology. We're in our early 30s, live a rather frugal life right now with a savings rate of roughly 50-60%, and we'll have a stache of about 60,000€ in a year.
Another concern is that we have absolutely no idea where we would like to live. The only condition is that it has to be some place warm – we're both so fed up with the weather in northern Europe that we would definitely prefer warmth. We don't mind winter as long as there are real summers, something that northern Europe has a distinct lack of. We live in a big city right now and definitely prefer that to rural areas, but cities can be quite expensive. Any advice on what areas might be most suitable for us? The ideal place would be warm all year round and have plenty of jobs available for IT professionals as well as patent attorney secretaries ;-)

Multi-lingual multi-cultural technical professionals seeking a warmer climate?

Move to Oahu. Seriously. Contact the German or French consulates here and ask questions.
http://www.germany.info/Vertretung/usa/en/__pr/GKs/SANF/2012/04/04__New__honorary__consul__hawaii.html
http://www.embassypages.com/missions/embassy1217/
http://www.embassypages.com/missions/embassy13120/

As for Houston, you will definitely know that it's summer.

Outlier · « **Reply #24 on:** August 10, 2014, 08:05:19 PM »

I work in IT and I've also got no degree and 10 years experience. You may have a hard time finding a job. As a Linux specialist it probably won't be that bad for you but it will make it more difficult to get in the door. Being a specialist you will have an easier time than a general systems administrator but the default requirement HR departments seem to stick on every IT job above entry level is 4 years experience and a bachelors degree in a related field.

If you want a warm area for IT jobs Austin TX is a very popular part of the country. In my own area Troy, Ann Arbor and Grand Rapids Michigan are great cities for IT jobs and we have very defined seasons here. Hot summers cold winters and northern Michigan has endless weekend destinations if you enjoy the outdoors.

Hugerat · « **Reply #25 on:** August 11, 2014, 10:55:12 AM »

Quote from: sly on August 09, 2014, 12:45:53 PM

You will show up in the US presumably with no credit score and no job. That means you might have to pay 12 months upfront to secure an apartment lease. You also can't lease a car so you will have to pay for that upfront (unless you live somewhere car free). In some places you will need 2 cars just to go about your daily tasks as a couple. So before you know it you might be down to 40K savings and you barely even landed.

Yeesh, what forum are we even on here? Two cars?? Lease a vehicle????? You can easily buy a perfectly good vehicle for $3000-4000 cash. It's true, if you start making incredibly poor choices right off the bat you will do badly. I think the poster fully understands that they will not land and immediately find jobs with six figure salaries. The point is that having an opportunity to live in another country offers you life-long enrichment, and should not be passed up, even if it temporarily hurts you financially.

A couple of other pieces of advice for KMS: you said you were very comfortable during your time in Detroit but you don't really know how your wife will adapt. Finding a city with a German community and institutions (like a Goethe Institut) can help her stay connected and provide a place to make friends. You can even work there while you are trying to establish yourselves as many are quite desperate for teachers.

The credit history is a good point. This is important for all sorts of things not necessarily related to getting a loan. I'm not sure if you had a credit card in Detroit, but your German credit history will NOT help you in this regard. You should each (separately) establish secured credit cards. You make a deposit, usually only around $300-$500 to a company that will give you a "credit" card that you can use. Try to find one without steep annual fees, use it sparingly but regularly, and never, EVER miss a payment. This will build some credit and within a year or so you should be able to apply for a regular credit card.

Lastly, the larger your Stash, the easier it will be for you. Based on your numbers you are saving enough to fund as much as a year worth of living expenses every six months or so. How long after you receive your green card must you use it to avoid losing it? Delaying by just a half year gives you an immensely larger buffer.

kms · « **Reply #26 on:** August 11, 2014, 02:11:57 PM »

Quote

I think it would make the most sense to first find a place where you have a job and then start doing research about what sort of jobs are available for her. For example if there are not many legal secretary positions, but there are positions for administrative assistants, her skills would probably transfer, and she might not even need further training. Where I work, it is very common for spouses of employees to be hired as administrative assistants and trained on the job.

She wouldn't mind working in a different field as long as it doesn't feel like a downgrade, which it wouldn't in this case ;)

Quote

f she would like to continue working in the legal field, it would benefit her a great deal if she took a US-based paralegal course. If she took the course in the city where you want to live, then they might be able to provide her with networking opportunities and career assistance. But if you want to minimize your downtime between jobs, I'm sure she can find paralegal certification courses online that she can take in Germany or while you're traveling in the US -- then follow it up with a local course so she can get connected to the local legal community.

That sounds like a great idea, we'll look into that, thanks a lot.

Quote

I would start out by putting resumes up 3 months before you plan to start working -- then schedule interviews around your road trip, as you may be able to deduct the cost of looking for work.
Wife should apply to USPTO and any support contractors that support it. Language skills and international patent knowledge is a much needed skill!

That's a great idea, will do, thank you.

Quote

Yeesh, what forum are we even on here? Two cars?? Lease a vehicle????? You can easily buy a perfectly good vehicle for $3000-4000 cash. It's true, if you start making incredibly poor choices right off the bat you will do badly. I think the poster fully understands that they will not land and immediately find jobs with six figure salaries. The point is that having an opportunity to live in another country offers you life-long enrichment, and should not be passed up, even if it temporarily hurts you financially.

Exactly, thank you. I didn't really know what to say to these suggestions… I have absolutely no intention of buying a brand-new car, let alone two. And regarding credit history: we'll start building credit history as soon as we get there. We have an American Express credit card that we can transfer from Germany to the US online. That way we'll have real credit cards the day we start our new lifes ;)

I'm pretty sure my wife probably wouldn't like Detroit at all so that's not an option. I'm also not sure if we'd want a large German community and I'm fairly certain it's not necessary to make new friends. And we're not looking for Little Germany abroad, we've got that over here and are happy to escape it, so we'll probably steer clear of Germany communities in the US.

Quote

Lastly, the larger your Stash, the easier it will be for you. Based on your numbers you are saving enough to fund as much as a year worth of living expenses every six months or so. How long after you receive your green card must you use it to avoid losing it? Delaying by just a half year gives you an immensely larger buffer.

The interview will be somewhen between February and May 2015, although that too is a guess based on our case number and the case number cutoffs in the recent years. We might get called in as soon as December (October & November are highly unlikely) or as late as July. After that we have to activate the green card within six months, which means we have to officially immigrate and send the USCIS our permanent mailing address. It's ok to leave the country again after activation but from that moment on every absence longer than six months can lead to loss of our status as permanent residents. Long story short: we might be able to stretch it for a few months but certainly not more than half a year.

theonethatgotaway · « **Reply #27 on:** August 11, 2014, 02:40:44 PM »

On the credit: as soon as you get here get a prepaid credit card through your bank. It will take 2 years to establish a credit history (your Amex history will not transfer). This being the case: it will be very hard to do things like secure a nice apartment or house rental. You will need either a sizeable deposit or a guarantor. Credit in the us operates much differently than the EU.

another thing: how many holidays do you go on currently ans how much time do you take off during the year? This may seem trivial but all of my friends that moved from EU really struggled with the constant work ethic in the US (as in no holiday time!)

Quote from: kms on August 11, 2014, 02:11:57 PM

Quote
I think it would make the most sense to first find a place where you have a job and then start doing research about what sort of jobs are available for her. For example if there are not many legal secretary positions, but there are positions for administrative assistants, her skills would probably transfer, and she might not even need further training. Where I work, it is very common for spouses of employees to be hired as administrative assistants and trained on the job.
She wouldn't mind working in a different field as long as it doesn't feel like a downgrade, which it wouldn't in this case ;)

Quote
f she would like to continue working in the legal field, it would benefit her a great deal if she took a US-based paralegal course. If she took the course in the city where you want to live, then they might be able to provide her with networking opportunities and career assistance. But if you want to minimize your downtime between jobs, I'm sure she can find paralegal certification courses online that she can take in Germany or while you're traveling in the US -- then follow it up with a local course so she can get connected to the local legal community.
That sounds like a great idea, we'll look into that, thanks a lot.

Quote
I would start out by putting resumes up 3 months before you plan to start working -- then schedule interviews around your road trip, as you may be able to deduct the cost of looking for work.
Wife should apply to USPTO and any support contractors that support it. Language skills and international patent knowledge is a much needed skill!
That's a great idea, will do, thank you.

Quote
Yeesh, what forum are we even on here? Two cars?? Lease a vehicle????? You can easily buy a perfectly good vehicle for $3000-4000 cash. It's true, if you start making incredibly poor choices right off the bat you will do badly. I think the poster fully understands that they will not land and immediately find jobs with six figure salaries. The point is that having an opportunity to live in another country offers you life-long enrichment, and should not be passed up, even if it temporarily hurts you financially.
Exactly, thank you. I didn't really know what to say to these suggestions… I have absolutely no intention of buying a brand-new car, let alone two. And regarding credit history: we'll start building credit history as soon as we get there. We have an American Express credit card that we can transfer from Germany to the US online. That way we'll have real credit cards the day we start our new lifes ;)

I'm pretty sure my wife probably wouldn't like Detroit at all so that's not an option. I'm also not sure if we'd want a large German community and I'm fairly certain it's not necessary to make new friends. And we're not looking for Little Germany abroad, we've got that over here and are happy to escape it, so we'll probably steer clear of Germany communities in the US.

Quote
Lastly, the larger your Stash, the easier it will be for you. Based on your numbers you are saving enough to fund as much as a year worth of living expenses every six months or so. How long after you receive your green card must you use it to avoid losing it? Delaying by just a half year gives you an immensely larger buffer.
The interview will be somewhen between February and May 2015, although that too is a guess based on our case number and the case number cutoffs in the recent years. We might get called in as soon as December (October & November are highly unlikely) or as late as July. After that we have to activate the green card within six months, which means we have to officially immigrate and send the USCIS our permanent mailing address. It's ok to leave the country again after activation but from that moment on every absence longer than six months can lead to loss of our status as permanent residents. Long story short: we might be able to stretch it for a few months but certainly not more than half a year.

kms · « **Reply #28 on:** August 11, 2014, 03:14:50 PM »

Quote from: theonethatgotaway on August 11, 2014, 02:40:44 PM

On the credit: as soon as you get here get a prepaid credit card through your bank. It will take 2 years to establish a credit history (your Amex history will not transfer). This being the case: it will be very hard to do things like secure a nice apartment or house rental. You will need either a sizeable deposit or a guarantor. Credit in the us operates much differently than the EU.

I'm familiar with how credit works in the US and while my Amex history will not transfer my cards will, which means we'll have real credit cards to start working on our credit score from day one. Or rather the day we'll get our SSNs which can be up to three weeks after entering the country ;-)

Quote

another thing: how many holidays do you go on currently ans how much time do you take off during the year? This may seem trivial but all of my friends that moved from EU really struggled with the constant work ethic in the US (as in no holiday time!)

Yeah, that might be a problem. Since I have already lived in the US I'm familiar with the work ethic and have been wondering if you guys ever travel. Like outside your own country. For more than five days ;-) This will definitely take some getting used to. On the other hand I'm more likely to make more money in the US and retire earlier than in Europe which might even things out in the end.

2lazy2retire · « **Reply #29 on:** August 12, 2014, 11:25:07 AM »

Quote from: Outlier on August 10, 2014, 08:05:19 PM

but the default requirement HR departments seem to stick on every IT job above entry level is 4 years experience and a bachelors degree in a related field.

This default requirement is usually to satisfy Labor Cert requirements for H1B visa applications. With the OP's skills any HR dept advertising a "real" position would likely focus on recent work experience

Philadelphia is not a bad city - lots of companies requiring your skills especially in the western suburbs - also lots of universities that may be hiring. For the east coast ( direct flights home, access to biggest job market, nice summers etc) might be worth a look with its more affordable cost of living.

Gimesalot · « **Reply #30 on:** August 13, 2014, 08:52:51 AM »

Have you thought about getting a job through a German company before moving to the US? From my time at a German company, they much preferred bringing German employees to the US instead of hiring people from here. You may want to look into Mercedes, BMW, BASF, Evonik, VW, etc. I think both you and your wife could find positions before you moved here.

If you go through those companies, most likely, you will end up living in the Southeast. Most European people that move to this part of the country really struggle with the summers.

Looking for a job here is very, very, difficult. Hiring is incredibly fickle. Employers are not willing to invest any money in training new employees. To make matters worse, most employers have combined several positions into one position, so people need to have broad experience. This will be a much larger problem for your wife.

My last suggestion is to start in a low cost of living location. Establish yourselves there. Have your wife do her training and certifications. Then, plan your move to a bigger, more expensive city. You will have time to get formal US training, learn the lay of the land, and build US experience, without burning through your savings.

MrFrugalChicago · « **Reply #31 on:** August 13, 2014, 09:05:21 AM »

Quote from: rachael talcott on August 08, 2014, 08:52:14 AM

The US job market is still pretty bad. I know highly educated and experienced people who have lost their jobs and had months to years without work. One friend in IT was out of work for about 6 months. He eventually found a job that requires him to be away from home weekdays. The legal field is very bad, at least for lawyers. I don't know about secretarial positions, but your wife would probably need to take some classes to learn how the US legal system is different from Europe.

Your flexibility as to location will be a huge help in finding a job, though. Most of the US can offer you "real summers." Pay attention to cost of living, especially of housing. Some of the biggest areas for IT also have extremely high housing costs.

The plan sounds like so much fun, I think if I were in your shoes I'd take the risk.

The IT job market is not bad. I get 10-20 emails from recruiters per week.

You will do fine with an IT job.

Law is another matter. Is your wife more a lawyer or more a paralegal? Being a paralegal is easy, being a lawyer is hard. To practice law you need to pass the bar in the right state for where you live. Your wife would likely need to go back to school to pass (and law school is often 30-50k per year, not cheap).

Villanelle · « **Reply #32 on:** August 13, 2014, 09:07:33 AM »

Are you 100% committed to those 6 months of traveling? Frankly, I'd start the job search as soon as the plane landed (or likely several weeks before). Or certainly after a month or so of wandering. It might mean your travel time is cut well short of the 6 months you want, but it would take away much of the stress, I think. Look for jobs and travel while you do so, and let your hire date determine when you stop traveling.

ChrisLansing · « **Reply #33 on:** August 18, 2014, 06:13:25 AM »

Congratulations on winning the green card lottery. Welcome to the USA, we're happy to have you.

I understand that you've already lived in the US (Detroit area) for 3 years and that your mind is made up to make the move. I wouldn't try to talk you out of it, instead, I encourage you to take the leap.

May I ask what is so appealing about the US? What is it that makes you want to live here? You must really like it to give up what you have in Europe. I live in Lansing, MI, so I'm familiar with the area you lived in and it's not one of the nicer places in the US. I would think someone living in Detroit for 3 years would be reluctant to ever return to the US :-) Obviously you had a good experience. You should find most other places in the US a good deal nicer than Detroit.

My son is an IT guy (Linux mostly, red hat certified) My son never finished his degree. What tech companies care about is ability, not credentials. I don't think you'll have a problem finding a job. Your wife may be able to get secretarial/administrative positions with her background. Not sure about legal secretary jobs.

If you feel that Detroit had "real summers" you'll be happy just about anywhere in the US. But maybe summer can get too real? In the south you might find many many days of 100F weather. You might consider that summers can be too hot in some parts of the US.

I think you'll find there are only a few US cities with a cost of living comparable to Europe. Most places will be quite a bit cheaper than what you are used to. In my area, for example, a 2 bedroom apartment can be leased for about $450 -$750 depending on how nice and the amenities (pool for example, on a bus line, etc.). A house in Lansing can be bought for as little as $40,000 and it's a decent house. A lot depends on where you are willing to live. If you're willing to have Black/Hispanic neighbors, you can find really good housing deals, and I'm not talking about "war zone" neighborhoods in Detroit, I'm talking about decent neighborhoods. Americans are a little "funny" about race and many times a "bad neighborhood" simply means there are people of color living there. OTOH San Francisco or NYC could be as expensive as any city in Europe.

The motorcycle trip seems like a good idea. Explore. Find out about the country before you choose a place to settle down. You're still young, and you have plenty of time to save money. Now is the time for adventure.

My wife is from Thailand and she speaks with a heavy Thai accent. This has not posed any real problems, so I don't imagine you or your wife will have any language problems either.

You probably already know this, but I'll mention it just in case - if you and your wife have a child born within the borders of the US that child is an American citizen. Doesn't matter whether you and your wife have become citizens or not. Your citizenship status doesn't change, you'd still have to apply for citizenship, if you you wished.

Have fun, and keep us posted, we'd be interested in your adventure.

iampatriciag · « **Reply #34 on:** August 18, 2014, 11:16:41 AM »

What an exciting prospect for you and your wife! Here's the (long!) story of my (and my American husband's) experience finding work in the U.S.:

I am a Dutch citizen who grew up and went to university in Canada (plus a year abroad in Holland for my 3rd year of university), and moved to the US 3 years ago (May '11) on a fiancé visa. I got a green card/PR within 6 months (Oct '11) and started to seriously pursue work in my field (teaching English as a second language) in January '12. I didn't hear anything back for ages and spent months freelancing online as a writer/editor/translator making about $1000/mo, which was frustrating, but I was gaining momentum. Luckily, my husband had good, steady work that whole time. I finally got a job offer in my field in June of that year and have been there every since. So, about 6 months of applying to every job I more or less qualified for, and waiting for a break. My international M.A. degree didn't seem to bother anyone though every teaching job has asked to see my university transcripts (official ones, no less) which seems odd to me (this never happened in Canada, but whatever). I got the feeling experience + first impression made the bigger difference for all the jobs I interviewed for.

As for my American husband, after college, he spent 5 years working as an electrical engineer for a big U.S. company at different sites across the U.S. and Canada (where we eventually met) and when he left the company to settle back in the States near his family, (thinking that his girlfriend-future-wife wouldn't want to move every 1.5yrs), it took him a while to find a solid job. He left Canada in March '10, lived in Seattle, WA. and spent the spring/summer job hunting and fretting about his dwindling savings. He had 2 different jobs that weren't really great fits and landed a job with the government through a friend in November '10 - so about 8 months of financial uncertainty.

We live about an hour outside of Seattle, WA now so I didn't apply to all the schools in the city - I might've gotten something sooner if I had, but then, it wasn't so urgent for me to get a job no matter what. I highly recommend the Pacific Northwest in terms of weather - we've had a great, real summer here (though several people have surprised me by saying, "these last 3 summers (ie. the only 3 summers I've lived here) have been really unusual!" Every day has been about 25-30C with hardly any humidity to complain about. Lots of people suffer during the long, grey, wet fall/winter/spring but I haven't really found it that bad. I'd rather have our dark winters than weeks straight of -15C and shoveling (and driving in!) snow. Plus there's lots to do out here.

Anyway, all in all, it wasn't too traumatic though we both did go through periods of discouragement while applying for work everywhere and hearing so little back. There are so many ways to make "in the meantime" money before finding something that matches your education/experience, and it looks like you have plenty saved up to make it through a frugal first year. Plus you have a great attitude about the upcoming challenges - so I say, congratulations and good luck!

chopper41 · « **Reply #35 on:** August 18, 2014, 03:42:59 PM »

I'm in IT and my husband is a patent lawyer. I don't think you'll have any problems finding a job. It will be more challenging for your wife. Cities, I would recommend include:

-Washington, D.C. (probably the best city for employment, for both of you)
-Bay Area (San Francisco, San Jose, etc.) It's really expensive, but your pay will be high and there are plenty of IT jobs and there should be some paralegal work as well.
-Denver/Boulder
-Austin
-Up the east coast (Northern Virginia, DC, Maryland, Philadelphia, New Jersey, New York, Boston)

If you can "borrow" a friend's address for your resume, I would start sending out resumes in your target cities 3 mos before you're ready to settle down.

Good luck and Welcome!

rugorak · « **Reply #36 on:** August 18, 2014, 05:52:17 PM »

Quote from: iampatriciag on August 18, 2014, 11:16:41 AM

What an exciting prospect for you and your wife! Here's the (long!) story of my (and my American husband's) experience finding work in the U.S.:

My international M.A. degree didn't seem to bother anyone though every teaching job has asked to see my university transcripts (official ones, no less) which seems odd to me (this never happened in Canada, but whatever).

This seems to be the new standard for just about every job these days. I work in IT and had the same request for an official transcript. I know people in other fields who have had the same experience. I find it odd too because when I first graduated and my grades would have mattered more no place cared. Now that I have years of experience they all want it.

Sunflower · « **Reply #37 on:** August 18, 2014, 09:43:30 PM »

There have been quite a few replies from real lawyers but I'll chime in with my own tidbit and those who know better can correct me. When I was looking into patent law, I found out that you can sit for the 'patent bar' which is different from taking the actual bar. This might be something to look into as you don't need to go to a US law school. I'm pretty sure it doesn't give you all of the rights of a lawyer (even within the patent field) but does give you more options than being a legal secretary. Several of my scientist friends from grad school were going to study for this exam.

FrugalZony · « **Reply #38 on:** August 18, 2014, 10:22:14 PM »

Congratulations on winning the GC lottery!!
I tried that myself for many years, without success!!
Today I am glad, I came here on a work VISA with a job lined up.
It has taken my husband years to find a decent job.

Given your IT background, you should be able to find a job relatively quickly in larger cities, as several people have said.
Your wife may have a harder time. I have a friend here who works as a patent attorney and it took her quite a while to find something with her foreign degree. I can only imagine, that it will be harder if you are only a patent secretary, as often times those qualifications are not recognised here.
I would recommend to have her degree evaluated by WES so you have something to show.

As you know about the AMEX trick (I used that one myself succesfully a few years back), I suppose you frequent the typical immigration message boards, but in case you don't, feel free to PM me, for a couple of links to boards that may be helpful!

All the best on your upcoming move!!

Goldielocks · « **Reply #39 on:** August 18, 2014, 10:30:12 PM »

Cities to avoid if you want warm summers... Northern California (70's) to Seattle. Alaska. Maine get wet cold winters, summers can be nice but sometimes cool and windy.

Mountains like Colorado have lots of sun but cool nights. Mixed blessing.

To me a real summer has warm picnic days with sun, green grass and trees,, but not a scorcher usually. Kentucky, Boston, Chicago, Minnesota. Even Iowa.

Surprisingly warm summers in praries and Minnesotta . cold sunny winters make summer even better!

a great clue is when homes in your area are usually advertised with a/c. Look for lots of sunny days and some rain fall or it may feel a bit desert like.

Roses · « **Reply #40 on:** August 19, 2014, 12:30:31 AM »

Several people have recommended the bay area and I just want to say that I personally don't think the high salaries there are high enough to justify the ridiculously expensive cost of living. My husband works in high tech here in Seattle and is paid well but housing here can be expensive ($1000-2000 for a one bedroom, depending on location). Over the past few years he has been head-hunted by companies in the San Francisco Bay area luring him to interviews with promises of much higher salaries. At first the numbers sounded great - too good to be true. He was flown down there a couple of times and I accompanied him once to do some research on housing, schools, etc. We concluded that it just didn't make sense for us. We realized that his salary would have to be almost twice as much if we wanted to have a similar lifestyle (frugal other than housing - we pay a premium to live in a convenient area). So we've stayed put. We did the same calculation for New York when an offer came from a company there and again it wasn't worth it. We live here for reasons other than money as well, but at that point I was trying to do a strictly financial comparison. So that's my pitch for Seattle :) Great salaries with high (but not that high cost of living) + gorgeous scenery and lots to do + what I consider a real summer.

Quote from: goldielocks on August 18, 2014, 10:30:12 PM

Cities to avoid if you want warm summers... Northern California (70's) to Seattle. Alaska. Maine get wet cold winters, summers can be nice but sometimes cool and windy.

To me a real summer has warm picnic days with sun, green grass and trees,, but not a scorcher usually.

I have to disagree with Seattle summers being in the 70's (I wish!). It's been mostly mid 80's the past several summer (new normal, I think) with a few days of 70's and a few in the 90's. BC seems cooler - I spent a lot of time there this summer wearing a fleece while my friends in Seattle were complaining about the heat. All we have are sunny picnic days (by the water!) with green grass and trees.

And totally agree with those encouraging you to go explore! It'll be awesome! And it's true that you'll get less vacation time here. So live it up in between jobs :)

kms · « **Reply #41 on:** August 19, 2014, 01:48:47 PM »

Again, you guys are... AWESOME! Thanks for all your advice, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. There's so much that I cannot possibly answer every single one of them individually - might take me all night ;-) And yes, Detroit did not scare me away at all. Quite the contrary, really. I've seen a town on the brink of destruction but I've met so many friendly and genuinly nice people and have enjoyed every minute of my stay. I've seen much more of the US than Detroit though, we have friends in Florida and Chicago whom I've visited a couple of times as well, I've been to Texas and travelled a bit during my stay in Detroit. I know what Michigan has to offer and I've really enjoyed it but I don't think it's the right place for us to settle down because of better job options in other places.

One more time, to get things right: my wife is not a patent lawyer, nor is she a regular lawyer. She has a Master's degree in Anthropology but since - just like in the US - it's next to impossible to land a steady job with a liberal arts degree in Germany she decided to go back to school and get her certificate as patent attorney secretary. Which means she's more of a paralegal than a lawyer, although even that doesn't really fit. Her English is good, not fluent, but it used to be a lot better before she moved to Germany and she's very positive it'll get a lot better within just a few weeks or months in the US. She's already noticed a noticeable improvement when we have friends over from the US and she has to speak English for a few days. She loves her job very much and would love to continue working in that field in the US. It seems this might turn out to be our biggest problem, as far as I understand I should have no trouble landing a decent gig in IT but she might. She is flexible, however, and would be fine with a similar job as well.

Regarding costs of living: where we live is one of the most expensive places in Germany. Right now we're paying around US $1,300 for a two-bedroom apartment, although the second bedroom is more like a walk-in closet. We got lucky because our place is ridiculously cheap for our town - if we had to move we'd expect something around US $2,000 for a place like that. From what I've heard we should be paying much less anywhere except maybe for NYC, LA & San Francisco. I'll look closer into Austin, one of my former roommates who's become a close friend lives there and he's been saying great things about the town. I've been to Austin once although it was only for a short weekend on business, which means I didn't really get to see or experience anything.

A couple of more things: yes, we are very commited to six months of travelling especially since we won't be able to spend as much time travelling once we start working in the US as we do now. For that very reason I also don't think that getting a job with a German company will be an option - I highly doubt they'll be willing to wait for six months or more before I can start working. The cities, that have been cited most often here, are Washington D.C., Boston, San Francisco, Austin, Denver, NYC, and Seattle. We'll look very closely into all of them, thanks a lot.

I'll start sending out private messages as soon as I find the time to do so. I'm working crazy hours right now (25 hours already this week, and it's only tuesday) and don't really have time to think straight outside of work so please forgive me if it takes a bit longer for me to respond or contact you to take you up on your friendly offers.

rugorak · « **Reply #42 on:** August 21, 2014, 10:34:26 AM »

Quote from: kms on August 19, 2014, 01:48:47 PM

Regarding costs of living: where we live is one of the most expensive places in Germany. Right now we're paying around US $1,300 for a two-bedroom apartment, although the second bedroom is more like a walk-in closet. We got lucky because our place is ridiculously cheap for our town - if we had to move we'd expect something around US $2,000 for a place like that. From what I've heard we should be paying much less anywhere except maybe for NYC, LA & San Francisco. I'll look closer into Austin, one of my former roommates who's become a close friend lives there and he's been saying great things about the town. I've been to Austin once although it was only for a short weekend on business, which means I didn't really get to see or experience anything.

You can easily spend that much in many cities in the US but you do not have to in most places other than those you mentioned. When I was looking in upstate NY late last year I came across plenty of places that ran that range. Most of them are "luxury" apartments. Which simply means they have some newer things here and there, usually have better landscaping, etc. It took a little looking, and I have to commute, but I ended up finding a place for about half of what you are paying that is pretty nice, but not "luxury". And actually worked out better because heat and hot water were included vs those places that cost twice as much which included nothing.

greenmimama · « **Reply #43 on:** August 21, 2014, 12:03:22 PM »

As far as weather, there really is nowhere in the US, including Alaska that doesn't have a true summer, it more depends on how much summer you can stand or winter, if you are looking at the map of the US, Look at TN and figure in general everything south of that gets really hot and humid summers. The parts north are generally more like the Detroit summers, hot with a bit of humidity, but not near as much as the southern states, our summers in the north are shorter, think hot in July and Aug. but still nice in May, June, Sept and even Oct. Cold the rest of the year.

Have you considered Colorado? Beautiful, 4 seasons and they have mountains!

I live in MI, but not Detroit, we are practically 2 diff. states :)

Kansas Beachbum · « **Reply #44 on:** August 22, 2014, 12:50:32 PM »

Quote from: kms on August 08, 2014, 07:36:39 AM

Another concern is that we have absolutely no idea where we would like to live. The only condition is that it has to be some place warm – we're both so fed up with the weather in northern Europe that we would definitely prefer warmth. We don't mind winter as long as there are real summers, something that northern Europe has a distinct lack of. We live in a big city right now and definitely prefer that to rural areas, but cities can be quite expensive. Any advice on what areas might be most suitable for us? The ideal place would be warm all year round and have plenty of jobs available for IT professionals as well as patent attorney secretaries ;-)

I'm sure that there must be people on these forums that will be able to give us advice and to take away our (ill-founded) angst. Are we crazy to do this? Do the risks outweigh the chances this bald move might hold for us?

As far as where, I live in the Kansas City area, which is right in the middle of the U.S. The economy here is very diverse, does not depend heavily on one major employer/industry, plenty of opportunity for IT folks. Not sure about Patent Attorneys, but several very large law firms around, so I would think so. We definitley have 4 seasons...pushing 100 F in the late summer (like today), and single digits (F) with snow in the dead of winter. Spring and Fall both tend to be very pleasant. Cost of living here is very low compared to many parts of the country, especially the coasts. There are great public schools, and it's safe, so a great place to raise a family...which doesn't sound like a requirement for you, but just saying. The only drawback for me is that it's a long way from water/beaches, and since I kind of live for that stuff it's a bit of a problem. Being centrally located might appeal to you...give you a central base from which to plan your travels. There is an international airport here, though small compared to many (O'Hare, Hartsfield, LAX, any in New York, etc.)...but you can get anywhere from here.

Are you crazy? Maybe just a little, but to me it sounds like a grand adventure. You've thought through it completely, have a plan for spending before you find jobs, and very marketable skills for when you need to. I say Go for it!

kms · « **Reply #45 on:** January 26, 2015, 07:28:55 AM »

After months and months of waiting our visa interview has finally been scheduled (eight months from the day we finished the application to the day we received notice that an interview had been scheduled). We're still scared and not 100% certain it's the right thing to do but are still leaning heavily towards "you only live once". Also, there are tons of questions I already have since we're very familiar with the way certain things are done in Germany yet completely oblivious to what we'll have to be paying attention to in the US.

For example:

* When buying a motorcycle/car, what do I have to do to obtain a license plate & insurance?
* What proof of ownership do I need when purchasing a motorcycle / car?
* What exactly do I need to pay attention to when renting an appartment / house? Any particular hidden fees, forms, etc.?
* I'm subject to taxation / income tax in the US from the day I receive my green card yet I have no idea how to file a tax return.

To be honest it's all a bit overwhelming but exciting at the same time. So many new things to learn and so little time...

aspiringnomad · « **Reply #46 on:** January 26, 2015, 08:40:28 AM »

Congratulations! As you've found out with your visa interview, the bureaucracy in the US can be challenging at times, but in my view is easier to manage than ever with the information and services that are often available online. I'll try to answer your questions as best I can, but I haven't owned a car in years, so others will probably correct me or fill in any gaps I've left.

While the process varies somewhat from state to state, when you purchase a motorcycle/car you must have the title signed over to you by the previous owner (proof of ownership) and a bill of sale with the purchase price and date. Then you insure it - call around or look online for quotes (Geico, Progressive, eSurance, etc.) Then with your state's Department of Motor Vehicles, you typically pay a one time transfer tax (depending on the state) for the sale of the vehicle, a registration fee, and a tag (license plate) fee. I think, but am not sure, that you will need proof of residency in the state you are registering the vehicle, so you may need to lock down a lease first. From what I understand, many states now offer some of these services online.

When renting a place, ask outright if there are any fees associated with applying, moving, etc. NYC is one of the few places in the US where landlords sometimes require you to work through a broker and then pay that broker an exorbitant fee for the privilege. Outside of NYC you shouldn't have to pay such fees. I'm not sure how it works without a US credit history, but many landlords will want to see that you have good credit. In lieu of a credit history, you may need to put down a larger refundable deposit or pay for a few months of tenancy in advance. It may also help if you can get a letter of reference from a landlord in Germany. But all of that may be negotiable depending on where you are renting. Read the lease over word-for-word before signing. Since your wife has a legal background, she should have no trouble distilling the important stipulations in the lease.

Taxes in the US are complex, but software like TurboTax makes it pretty easy for most to file. It incorporates some ability to handle foreign income reporting. However, my wife is a nonresident alien for tax purposes and I have found that I've had to supplement the TurboTax prompts with a decent amount of my own due diligence and form preparation.

Again, to others more knowledgeable, I welcome corrections and additions to the above advice!

Nothlit · « **Reply #47 on:** January 26, 2015, 10:39:49 AM »

On the car insurance topic, it is worth noting that it's illegal in most (all?) states to operate a vehicle without insurance. AT ALL. Like, you can't even drive it home from the dealership if you don't have insurance. This doesn't usually pose a problem for most American buyers, because they typically already have a policy on another vehicle (their parents', or a previous car), which typically includes automatic coverage on new vehicles for, say, 14-30 days. Since you won't have a pre-existing policy, it will be a bit trickier for you. If you're buying from a dealership, they may try to offer you insurance through some agency partnership that they have. That's probably not the best price you could get. Instead, it is probably worth shopping around in advance with a few different insurance companies that you think you might want to do business with -- you can get quotes online by providing some basic information about the make/model of the car, and driver history -- and then call them up to ask what the procedure would be in your state for starting a policy on a new car at the time of purchase.

Depending on the state, the dealership may provide you a temporary license plate, or they may facilitate you paying the taxes/fees and receiving an actual metal plate from them. If you just get a temporary plate, then you usually have 30 days to visit your state's DMV to complete the registration, pay any remaining taxes or fees, and receive the final plate.

As dcmustachio said, when purchasing a car, your proof of ownership is the title. If buying with a loan, the title is in the lender's name until you have paid off the loan. Otherwise, the title is in your name. If buying from a dealership, you should have no issues with this. If buying from a private party, you will want to make sure they sign over the title to you -- if their name is not on the title, do not proceed! There is usually a space for signatures at the bottom or on the back of the document. Oh, and verify that the VIN (vehicle identification number) on the title matches the vehicle.

I second the recommendation to use tax prep software. But you also should not feel intimidated to just download and review the official forms and instructions directly from the IRS web site. The language is generally easy to understand, and I find that it helps to refer to the "official" rules even if I'm using third-party software to file my taxes. The deadline to file a tax return is typically April 15 (i.e., 2014 taxes must be filed by April 15, 2015). However, you cannot wait until then to pay your taxes owed. The U.S. requires ongoing payment throughout the year. For most people, this is handled automatically by their employer via withholding from their paycheck. If you are self-employed or ER but still have taxable income, you must make quarterly estimated tax payments throughout the year.

The laws governing landlord/tenant agreements vary quite a bit from state to state. Once you know for sure where you'll be settling, search online for terms like "tenant's rights" and your city or state. Ask for a receipt for any deposit or advance rent. It is wise to do a walk-through inspection of the property with the landlord before you move in, and note any pre-existing damage in writing (and take photographs) so they don't try to blame you for it when you move out. Find out if any utilities are included in the rent, or if you'll need to pay for them separately. Read the lease thoroughly to understand what the rules are for payment of rent, when and how the rent can be increased, rules for eviction, what happens at the end of the lease, and whether you are allowed to terminate the lease early. In some states, you become a "tenant at will" (aka "month-to-month") once the lease expires or if you do not sign a longer-term lease. Insist that all agreements be put in writing.

2lazy2retire · « **Reply #48 on:** January 26, 2015, 11:00:04 AM »

Quote from: kms on January 26, 2015, 07:28:55 AM

After months and months of waiting our visa interview has finally been scheduled (eight months from the day we finished the application to the day we received notice that an interview had been scheduled). We're still scared and not 100% certain it's the right thing to do but are still leaning heavily towards "you only live once". Also, there are tons of questions I already have since we're very familiar with the way certain things are done in Germany yet completely oblivious to what we'll have to be paying attention to in the US.

For example:

* When buying a motorcycle/car, what do I have to do to obtain a license plate & insurance?
* What proof of ownership do I need when purchasing a motorcycle / car?
* What exactly do I need to pay attention to when renting an appartment / house? Any particular hidden fees, forms, etc.?
* I'm subject to taxation / income tax in the US from the day I receive my green card yet I have no idea how to file a tax return.

To be honest it's all a bit overwhelming but exciting at the same time. So many new things to learn and so little time...

If I remember your GC becomes active when you first enter a US port. As such you have some control over when you become resident for tax purposes. It is generally less complicated if you keep your first years presence to be less than 183 days, read up on "First year choice" and "dual status".
Also make sure you are well versed on reporting requirements for overseas bank and investment accounts when US resident. Such things as PFICS/FACTCA. In some cases it might be better ( prof advice suggested) to close out any accounts before becoming US resident if only to reduce the hassle factor. Such things as tax free investments like an ISA in the UK may not receive the same status in the US.
My advice especially if you have assets in Germany would be to speak with someone versed in US taxes and familiar with the US/German tax treaties, action on assets and accounts is always best taken before becoming resident, may cost a few dollars but money well spent.

Paul der Krake · « **Reply #49 on:** January 26, 2015, 03:48:06 PM »

Don't blindly use tax software, it's a much better use of your time to take an afternoon and learn about the basics of tax preparation. It can be as easy as looking at a form 1040EZ and understand what all the lines do, to get started. Do NOT ask around for tax advice, the majority of people know next to nothing yet repeat shit they've heard on TV or from their neighbors (Obama's gonna tax the IRAs! If you get more than 5 kids the gubmint pays for your cell phone!), all the while being incapable of explaining the difference between a deduction and a credit. Asking strangers for advice on obscure parts of the tax code such as non resident filing is just asking for trouble.

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Author Topic: Moving to the U.S., need some advice (Read 15778 times)

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