Author Topic: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife  (Read 6713 times)

Villanelle

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2018, 04:21:00 AM »
Married people living with a roommate isn't weird or not grown-up.  But nor is a married person not wanting to live with a roommate.

I think it's time to sit down and set a budget you both agree to.  Set a hard maximum for rent *before you even start looking* and stick to it, and I'd include max commute times there to or there's a chance she will find the "perfect" apartment 50 minutes away.  And also set a hard budget for expenses associated with the move (new furniture, new curtains, a new comforter to match the paint color in the bedroom, and adorable new bath mat, etc.).  Tell her that you absolutely understand her desire to live without a roommate and you want to make that happen (and maybe try to mean it when you say it!), and that you want her to respect your desire to save as much as possible as quickly as possible, so you are looking for middle ground.  Would she settle for a $1800 rent cap (20 min. commute or less), packing and moving yourselves (so the only expense is a truck, unless you can borrow one), and an absolute promise that there will be no more than $750 in purchases for the new house, no matter what.  be prepared to bend a little.  Maybe you go up to $1900 and/or 25 minutes.  Start with numbers that truly are reasonable, but be prepared to give a little.  And remind her during the conversation that this is about both of you getting what is most important, and giving a little in order to let the other person win, too. 

Don't even look at any apartment over your max.  (The only exception *might* be if it is only ~$50 over and you think they might negotiate, but that still sets you up for your wife to fall in love with a place that ultimately is over budget.)  Don't look at any place outside your target area.  If you can agree to these terms before you start shopping, those things should be pretty ways to do, assuming your wife agrees in good faith. 

Bicycle_B

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #51 on: June 08, 2018, 05:01:02 PM »
Murse, thanks for clarifying that you're committed to non-roommate. The original title and post seemed to imply otherwise. By now you've had enough of the resulting entertainment.

Re rent vs buy, I suspect the key factor will end up being how long you expect to stay in your next residence. Personally I'd lean towards renting in a case of doubt.

To get a real picture, itemize and get data for all of the costs of buying and owning a home, and compare to all of the costs of renting. Yes, you'll have to select examples of each case and get data for dwellings of that type.
Include sale costs unless you have concrete data supporting that you will stay in a house for the rest of your life, when the average home changes hands in less than 10 years.
https://www.keepingcurrentmatters.com/2017/02/28/how-long-do-most-families-stay-in-their-home/

Once you have data in a good model, the decisions get easier.

I do the same thing every so often just to decide whether to keep owning my own home, which I've owned for decades. These days, rent vs buy in my city is about equal, at least for my personal details. So I go with my emotional preference. Knowing the data first helps me get there though.

rdaneel0

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #52 on: June 08, 2018, 07:51:01 PM »
I recommend renting for your situation, primarily because you and your wife have yet to have your own place with just the two of you. When DH and I got our first place sans roommates (we had roommates for ages too) we learned a lot. Just living in a rental apartment with the two of you might give you insights into the type of home you eventually want to buy.

I also wonder if you might be able to find a compromise in order to have lower rent. As a lady person, I can tell you that I often fantasized about a spacious brand new apartment when my husband and I were living in an ancient disgusting building with roommates. In reality, that would have been really expensive so we opted for our own place (rented), but it was still quite small and old. To my surprised I was totally satisfied with the tiny old but ours apartment, in fact we still live here! I thought I needed brand new, but what I really needed was a bathroom that wasn't disgusting from 5 people using it, a fridge and pantry I could organize however I wanted, and a place that felt like mine.

TL:DR: Wife may just be sick of sharing and open to lower cost apartments that offer more space than you have and more privacy, without luxury finishes. 

Hargrove

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2018, 09:59:34 AM »
2k rentals will chafe the Mustachian impulses... but in your grand scheme of things, if your jobs are stable, it's barely a speed bump. You don't sound like you want to commit to the house, and both parties should really be completely on board for that money-hose.

As for the apartment, sacking sub-15k of progress when you're making almost 100k (less taxes?) for the 'stache is going to slow you down only a little. It's ok to wonder if this is an article of happiness for her, or an impulse to keep up with the Joneses, but only your communication can give you a better bead on that. Even if she buys a pile of expensive furniture, it's a few more months. If she really wants to be the magnanimous hostess, it's easy to give her the opportunity to start in an apartment.  It will scratch the hosting itch without necessarily expanding into an executive dining room and a new deck. It will offer the opportunity to try a different, expanded homeowner arrangement and see how you both like it, without risking a short-term purchase of a house.

There are as many upgrades as you can imagine for a house; as Malkynn pointed out, far fewer for an apartment. If it's insufficient, it will still be better for a year or two, and by then you'll be comfortably close to retirement and can revisit the house idea. You can even turn this into a money-, time-, and life-saving compromise if you can get an apartment significantly closer to work, given those long commutes, and the real cost may be much lower than you think.

carolina822

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2018, 12:54:59 PM »
Kudos to you for considering all responses Murse. Count me among those who have found it curious that you're providing major economic outpatient assistance to what seems seems like your completely financially irresponsible parents without question, but dissing your wife, who appears to be frugal-ish and hard working for wanting to live in a roommate-free environment and have people over for dinner in a pleasant environment. I hope you continue to examine the disparity.

Because his wife is superficial! Not like his parents, who don't waaaaaant to move and if they do have to move don't waaaaaaant to rent.

swampwiz

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2018, 01:04:13 PM »
LOL, when I first read the thread title, I though that question was whether to buy or rent the wife. :)

whitewaterchica

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2018, 11:06:35 AM »
Given that you're willing to give/loan six figures to your parents but belittling your bride's request to live without a roommate in a slightly nicer apartment, maybe you should take some time to re-evaluate your priorities and see if you are truly committing to the person you have declared to be your life partner.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/messy-family-loan-advice/

^^^^ This! So many people have been trashing his wife, making jokes about divorce, etc... when there is clearly much more to the financial story here. I hope *she* knows what she's gotten herself in to.

GreenEggs

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2018, 12:47:31 PM »
I haven't read all the comments, but why not look into buying a duplex, or larger tri-plex or quad, and rent out the other units.  You'd get the privacy of your own place and also make money from the tenants.

If it's configured right the other units could be somewhat separate, like a basement unit or even detached. 

They pay the mortgage and you live there free.  Seems like a win/win/win to me.  (The wife will be happy, you will save even more than now, and the in-laws will be impressed.)

partgypsy

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2018, 01:59:49 PM »
I haven't read all the comments, but why not look into buying a duplex, or larger tri-plex or quad, and rent out the other units.  You'd get the privacy of your own place and also make money from the tenants.

If it's configured right the other units could be somewhat separate, like a basement unit or even detached. 

They pay the mortgage and you live there free.  Seems like a win/win/win to me.  (The wife will be happy, you will save even more than now, and the in-laws will be impressed.)

I like this idea.

narrative

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #59 on: June 18, 2018, 09:09:37 AM »
Eh, listen to your wife. Hear her out, let her know what you want and find the middle ground between the two.

Remember she is working hard bringing in her half of the income too.

Think if the whole thing like an investment. You may start out with riskier options, and as you get closer to retirement you re-asses and possibly shift towards less return in exchange for more security. Your marriage is the same. Before you were married you lived one way, and as you grow together you need to asses your current needs (personal, not just financial). It might be awesome to have the low rent but not at the risk/expense of your marriage.

I say re-asses. Find out what matters most to each of you (you many want low rent, she may want a little space for entertaining). Find a middle ground that meets both of your needs, realizing you *both* may have to compromise a little. Make sure you both feel heard, maybe even each making a list of things that are most important to you and finding where you have common goals.

If you have only been married a year, this is a good chance to build a foundation of compromise. Doing so *now* will serve you well over the life of your marriage because I PROMISE this won't be the last time you need to use this skill.  :)





Nicholas Carter

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #60 on: June 19, 2018, 09:33:53 AM »
My opinion is you are being unreasonable. You and your wife are married; you should be on your own. Is living with a roommate realistic for your entire adult lives? You make a good income especially for the area.

Stop being ridiculous. You're not a kid anymore, you're a married man. It's time to start acting like one.

As a man, Iíd have to agree with your wife. Roommates are great for saving money, but theyíre not great for a marriage. I donít think your wife is being unreasonable in any way, and it sounds like she works hard to bring money to the table as well.

You want to stay in the apartment with a roommate and wife....for 4 years?
I consider myself quite frugal and there is no way in hell I would agree to living with a roommate for years after marriage.

IMHO good frugality is wise but expecting a young wife to accept a roommate for years is not.

This is quite funny to me, to see such complainypants behavior, but an alternative explanation: After many years of living with and wanting roommates, my wife (married this year) has started talking about living on our own. It turns out that, while I was at work, she and our roommate got into an argument, and since then the roommate is quite hostile to her.
It is possible that your wife wants to move out for more than status reasons, but does not want to tell you.

How could you have a non-mustachian wife and still keep your expenses down to 35k?  That makes no sense...

I know I don't live in Portland, but I don't see anything mustachian about 35k per year: That's more than I make after taxes from my full time job.

alanB

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #61 on: June 19, 2018, 10:07:03 AM »
How could you have a non-mustachian wife and still keep your expenses down to 35k?  That makes no sense...

I know I don't live in Portland, but I don't see anything mustachian about 35k per year: That's more than I make after taxes from my full time job.

Oh shoot, what spend rate do I need to join the club?  I didn't see that box on the application form ;P

Lmoot

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2018, 10:29:17 AM »
My opinion is you are being unreasonable. You and your wife are married; you should be on your own. Is living with a roommate realistic for your entire adult lives? You make a good income especially for the area.

Stop being ridiculous. You're not a kid anymore, you're a married man. It's time to start acting like one.

As a man, Iíd have to agree with your wife. Roommates are great for saving money, but theyíre not great for a marriage. I donít think your wife is being unreasonable in any way, and it sounds like she works hard to bring money to the table as well.

You want to stay in the apartment with a roommate and wife....for 4 years?
I consider myself quite frugal and there is no way in hell I would agree to living with a roommate for years after marriage.

IMHO good frugality is wise but expecting a young wife to accept a roommate for years is not.

This is quite funny to me, to see such complainypants behavior, but an alternative explanation: After many years of living with and wanting roommates, my wife (married this year) has started talking about living on our own. It turns out that, while I was at work, she and our roommate got into an argument, and since then the roommate is quite hostile to her.
It is possible that your wife wants to move out for more than status reasons, but does not want to tell you.

How could you have a non-mustachian wife and still keep your expenses down to 35k?  That makes no sense...

I know I don't live in Portland, but I don't see anything mustachian about 35k per year: That's more than I make after taxes from my full time job.

OK, you just got married this year. In my comment that you quoted as complainy pants, I was commenting on the idea that he thought she should or would be OK with living for four years after marriage, with the roommate.

And if it really was just an argument with that roommate, then that means after the two of you move out you are going to get another roommate. And youíre going to live with other people as a married couple until you retire early. Because Mustachianism, right?

And even if she didnít have a reason other then she wants to live with her husband without another person in the home, do you honestly consider that unreasonable? If so, then I am sorry that you have such a distortion of reasonability.

Nicholas Carter

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #63 on: June 20, 2018, 06:19:38 AM »
OK, you just got married this year. In my comment that you quoted as complainy pants, I was commenting on the idea that he thought she should or would be OK with living for four years after marriage, with the roommate.

And if it really was just an argument with that roommate, then that means after the two of you move out you are going to get another roommate. And youíre going to live with other people as a married couple until you retire early. Because Mustachianism, right?

And even if she didnít have a reason other then she wants to live with her husband without another person in the home, do you honestly consider that unreasonable? If so, then I am sorry that you have such a distortion of reasonability.
Well... hopefully? We tried very hard while moving out this time to find a roommate, but it just didn't work (worked on the wrong side of town, health concerns, current lease wouldn't let them go). If we can find a roommate this time next year than we'll probably move in with them, but w/o a roommate up front we couldn't afford a place with the sq ft for a roommate to fit in. (The big mistake is that this roommate was basically a stranger, a friend of a former roommate who was looking for somewhere to stay. In the future, we'll aim to live with only people we already know, or by ourselves.)
And I suppose I think that I find several things that my wife desires to be unreasonable. I find most things that most people want unreasonable. But if everybody did what I thought was reasonable, they'd just be a copy of me. The only time I need to compromise is between a choice I think is reasonable and a choice I think is unreasonable: If I thought both options were reasonable, I wouldn't care which one we did.

Oh shoot, what spend rate do I need to join the club?  I didn't see that box on the application form ;P

12,000 dollars per year. 18,000 if you promise to feel really guilty about it.

talltexan

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2018, 11:39:51 AM »
Dang, I thought I was a mustachian because I didn't cave when my MIL insisted having two car payments was a reasonable way of life.

alanB

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #65 on: June 27, 2018, 12:52:45 PM »

Oh shoot, what spend rate do I need to join the club?  I didn't see that box on the application form ;P

12,000 dollars per year. 18,000 if you promise to feel really guilty about it.

Per person or per household?  Do I get to spend money on my kids or should I include them as a line item on my personal budget?

Nicholas Carter

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #66 on: June 27, 2018, 01:31:47 PM »
Dang, I thought I was a mustachian because I didn't cave when my MIL insisted having two car payments was a reasonable way of life.
We all gotta start somewhere. =D

Nicholas Carter

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #67 on: June 27, 2018, 01:33:27 PM »

Oh shoot, what spend rate do I need to join the club?  I didn't see that box on the application form ;P
12,000 dollars per year. 18,000 if you promise to feel really guilty about it.

Per person or per household?  Do I get to spend money on my kids or should I include them as a line item on my personal budget?
Per person. We're not trying to be ascetics here.