Author Topic: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife  (Read 7220 times)

Murse

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Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« on: June 05, 2018, 09:25:04 AM »
Hello,

My wife and I are going to be moving out and losing a roommate in the process. This was not according to plan, my wife wants us to be “a real husband and wife” So we are moving out earlier then planned. I need rent vs buy advice. The complication is my wife is not a mustachian and is easily influenced. As such, her friends and family advocating for us moving out, and “why do you have a roommate,” and “ew you live in those apartments really weighs on her.”

Our current share of the household bills comes out to roughly 800$/month. I estimate without the roommate and moving up in apartment “quality” to cost a minimum of 1500-1600/month. More then likely around 2k/month depending on what I can get my wife to agree to.

Our plan was previously was to live here as long as possible and get the nest egg as large as possible so we could both switch to part time at 30yo (currently both 26) and coast for a decade prior to hitting full FI.

Current gross income 135-140k combined, current assets are worth 190k, student loan debt of 17kish as our only debt.

Current annual living expenses around 35k.

Housing prices (Portland Oregon area) are shouting higher and higher and so is rent. Currently to get into the kind of house we would like the purchase price would be around 325k.

I ran out of time to finish this post, please discuss your view points and I will be able to check back in tomorrow evening.

Cassie

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2018, 09:33:23 AM »
If you plan to stay there it might be smarter to buy a house now since you can afford it. However, I wouldn’t buy if you cannot afford it on one salary in case one of you loses your job.  I understand wanting to own as I love to decorate, not have to move etc.  Your wife may want some of the emotional benefits of buying but with that comes expenses of owning such as home maintenance.

PoutineLover

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2018, 09:38:36 AM »
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html
Standard advice, but check out the rent vs buy calculator.
Have an honest discussion with your wife about your goals and what each of you are willing to sacrifice to get there. Map out the different scenarios to see the impact each option will have on your finances and retirement ages. Explore options like a duplex and renting out half, that could save you some money and you'd still have independence.
For me personally, I would rather live in a cheaper/less nice apartment with my partner if that meant we could avoid having a roommate. It sounds like you and your wife are really not on the same page about this yet, so it might involve some compromises, but if the important thing is a happy marriage, then you will have to meet in the middle somewhere.

inline five

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2018, 09:42:12 AM »
My opinion is you are being unreasonable. You and your wife are married; you should be on your own. Is living with a roommate realistic for your entire adult lives? You make a good income especially for the area.

I would purchase a home if planning to stay long term. I think you'd be surprised how much it actually costs you after mortgage pay down which is money that comes back to you.

A $320k home with 20% down at 4.5% for 30 years is $1600-$1700/month, but $350 of that goes back to you in terms of mortgage paydown. In ten years that's over $500 but rents will most likely have increased to over $2000/month, so your savings over rent is over $8,000/yr.

If you need to, buy a home with a basement or other single apartment on property to rent at first.

terran

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2018, 09:49:18 AM »
Is moving away from Portland an option? Renting and buying there both sound pretty expensive. Given your username, I assume you're a nurse? I don't know the answer to this, but any chance nurse salary has an inverse relationship to cost of living as it does for doctors? https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/geographic-arbitrage-pof/

MilesTeg

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2018, 09:58:42 AM »
Hello,

My wife and I are going to be moving out and losing a roommate in the process. This was not according to plan, my wife wants us to be “a real husband and wife” So we are moving out earlier then planned. I need rent vs buy advice. The complication is my wife is not a mustachian and is easily influenced. As such, her friends and family advocating for us moving out, and “why do you have a roommate,” and “ew you live in those apartments really weighs on her.”

Our current share of the household bills comes out to roughly 800$/month. I estimate without the roommate and moving up in apartment “quality” to cost a minimum of 1500-1600/month. More then likely around 2k/month depending on what I can get my wife to agree to.

Our plan was previously was to live here as long as possible and get the nest egg as large as possible so we could both switch to part time at 30yo (currently both 26) and coast for a decade prior to hitting full FI.

Current gross income 135-140k combined, current assets are worth 190k, student loan debt of 17kish as our only debt.

Current annual living expenses around 35k.

Housing prices (Portland Oregon area) are shouting higher and higher and so is rent. Currently to get into the kind of house we would like the purchase price would be around 325k.

I ran out of time to finish this post, please discuss your view points and I will be able to check back in tomorrow evening.

Stop being ridiculous. You're not a kid anymore, you're a married man. It's time to start acting like one.

mxt0133

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2018, 10:02:58 AM »
I personally don't think you are being unreasonable for having a roommate.  I think it is BADASS that your housing expense is so low relative to your income levels.  Don't let other people shame you into making decisions based on what they think you should be doing.  If you and your wife were doing fine with a roommate I would keep doing it.  However, if she was only going along with your plans and is now being influenced by friends and family then she might have not been fully on board with your plan if she is being swayed so easily.

Have you talked about what her goals and expectations are?  Sometimes they might not be aligned with yours and if you want to stay married then you need to find a compromise.

MilesTeg

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2018, 10:30:10 AM »
I personally don't think you are being unreasonable for having a roommate.  I think it is BADASS that your housing expense is so low relative to your income levels.  Don't let other people shame you into making decisions based on what they think you should be doing.  If you and your wife were doing fine with a roommate I would keep doing it.  However, if she was only going along with your plans and is now being influenced by friends and family then she might have not been fully on board with your plan if she is being swayed so easily.

Have you talked about what her goals and expectations are?  Sometimes they might not be aligned with yours and if you want to stay married then you need to find a compromise.

The point is rather that she clearly is NOT fine with the arrangement, not that such as arrangement is inherently bad. Marriage is a partnership.

cchrissyy

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2018, 10:35:35 AM »
Quote
Our current share of the household bills comes out to roughly 800$/month. I estimate without the roommate and moving up in apartment “quality” to cost a minimum of 1500-1600/month. More then likely around 2k/month depending on what I can get my wife to agree to.

Our plan was previously was to live here as long as possible and get the nest egg as large as possible so we could both switch to part time at 30yo (currently both 26) and coast for a decade prior to hitting full FI.


It sounds like she'd rather work longer and pay more living expenses to not have a roommate or lower-level apartment. That is a fine and common tradeoff.

Make sure "our plan" is really "ours" and not  just yours.

Slowtraveler

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2018, 10:47:16 AM »
The first comment by milesteg sounds like harassment.

Nothing here is ridiculous. 1600/month for a home? Far more ridiculous. She did make an agreement to your previous idea, she seems to have some clowns attempting to lure her to the dark, spendy pants cult of consumerism. The nail that sticks out gets hammered down, consumerism fails if not enough people support it. Both culturally and economically, then the model can shift but we have a long way to get there.

If you're tied to Portland, can you hack housing expenses? Jacob of ERE lived in East Bay for under 14000/year for everything for 2 people. I have many friends there. One friend pays a 1000/month for a room in a house, another friend pays 1800 for a home, another paid 435/month for a small shack in the garage. Boat, RV, tiny house, all options are fair game. I gave the first 2 prices to show that it's likely more expensive there than where you are. If Jacob and one of my friends can do it, so can you.

It sound like time for a dialogue with your wife to find a solution that works for both of you. To find what actually is important to her and what is just being parroted from Facebook.

VoteCthulu

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2018, 10:56:19 AM »
If you don't have a very strong preference for a house, I would suggest getting an apartment. Having the freedom to move across town or to another city with far less cost and hassle is often overlooked. Mathematically there is usually a crossover point after which a house saves you money over renting, but it could be 20 or more years depending on the specific prices.

If you really want a yard, a big garage/workshop, or a lot of space for a big family, storage, etc. then a house is your best option. Otherwise I would lean towards an apartment unless the rent is crazy high.

FallenTimber

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2018, 11:12:48 AM »
As a man, I’d have to agree with your wife. Roommates are great for saving money, but they’re not great for a marriage. I don’t think your wife is being unreasonable in any way, and it sounds like she works hard to bring money to the table as well. Be thankful for your wife and pick your battles wisely. Keeping a healthy marriage is worth the additional $500-$1000 per month it may cost you.

If it were up to me, my wife and I would be living in an RV full time, or in a cabin under 500 square feet. But my wife considers our home her sanctuary, and therefore we’re sticking with our 1,200 square foot house.

As for rent vs own, that’s a tough call in this market. I’ll let others weigh in on that.

Noodle

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2018, 11:58:36 AM »
The issue to me isn't whether having a roommate or not is OK for a married couple--I think it depends a lot of the three people and the set-up--but rather that

a) the wife changed her mind and we don't know whether she would say that she genuinely changed her perspective after living with the situation, never really wanted that arrangement but allowed herself to be pushed into it, or was just fine with it until somebody talked her out of it

b) the husband thinks his wife is unduly influenced by others, which may or may not be true (sometimes people cite others' opinions instead of their own when they are arguing with someone forceful or logic-driven)

c) the husband was apparently taken by surprise by this, which means communication was breaking down somewhere, and consequently...

d) the couple doesn't seem to be on the same page with their long-term goals and methods of reaching them

So outside of any finances and the Portland housing market, I would advise an apartment at least for a while to make sure you are really on the same page about what you are looking to accomplish as a family. In a hot housing market, it's going to take time to line-up financing and locate a viable buy even if you decide to go the "own" route.

therethere

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2018, 12:08:09 PM »
I think you'd get better answers if you delete any references to your wife and roommate situation. Otherwise, it's just going to be lots of people commenting and assuming about your wife, marriage, communication, etc. It's all nonsense.

Your real question is: My wife and I  would like to move into our own place after years of having a roommate to save cash. We're moderately frugal. We're currently in Portland and would like to stay. Any ideas on cheaper apartments? Based on the market should we rent or own? Our priorities are xxxxxxxxxxxx.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2018, 12:10:37 PM »
Stop being ridiculous. You're not a kid anymore, you're a married man. It's time to start acting like one.

Seriously, it's time for a new wife.

alanB

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2018, 12:24:28 PM »
Our current share of the household bills comes out to roughly 800$/month. I estimate without the roommate and moving up in apartment “quality” to cost a minimum of 1500-1600/month. More then likely around 2k/month depending on what I can get my wife to agree to.

Current gross income 135-140k combined, current assets are worth 190k, student loan debt of 17kish as our only debt.

Current annual living expenses around 35k.

Currently to get into the kind of house we would like the purchase price would be around 325k.

I condensed your post.  What does "household bills" mean?  Rent + utilities + groceries + common items?  What portion is rent?

How could you have a non-mustachian wife and still keep your expenses down to 35k?  That makes no sense...

Can you get your wife to post what she wants as well?  Otherwise you will get a lot of throw-away options that she will never agree to. 

Lmoot

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2018, 05:01:27 PM »
You want to stay in the apartment with a roommate and wife....for 4 years?

I think renting a cheap apartment for the 2 of you would be a good compromise. With one less person you shouldn’t need as much space. I agree with someone else who mentioned that some people will bring up others’ opinions to make their opinion feel like it has more clout, especially if they feel bulldozed by a more forceful opinion… And it seems like you have a very strong opinion about your goals.

Goals are often a moving target, and for that reason you shouldn’t feel more married to them, than to your wife. This is not a case of whether or not she’s mustachian (so far most mustachians in this thread side with your wife). I don’t know the ins and outs of MMM’s story, but I don’t recall hearing anything about him living with roommates after being married...just in case you are putting mustachianism on a pedestal. And I totally agree with someone’s suspicion that these were more your goals than hers, because nobody who is a non-mustachian as you describe her, would ever agree to them.

I consider myself quite frugal and there is no way in hell I would agree to living with a roommate for years after marriage.

Murse

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2018, 08:48:32 PM »
Our current share of the household bills comes out to roughly 800$/month. I estimate without the roommate and moving up in apartment “quality” to cost a minimum of 1500-1600/month. More then likely around 2k/month depending on what I can get my wife to agree to.

Current gross income 135-140k combined, current assets are worth 190k, student loan debt of 17kish as our only debt.

Current annual living expenses around 35k.

Currently to get into the kind of house we would like the purchase price would be around 325k.

I condensed your post.  What does "household bills" mean?  Rent + utilities + groceries + common items?  What portion is rent?

How could you have a non-mustachian wife and still keep your expenses down to 35k?  That makes no sense...

Can you get your wife to post what she wants as well?  Otherwise you will get a lot of throw-away options that she will never agree to.
Household bills means what we have agreed to pay including cable/internet, 2/3rds of the rent, dog food, common items. Roommate pays 1/3rd of the rent, and electricity and some common items. Rent is 620/month and includes water.

2) good point. My wife is mustachian lite. She is mustachian but not naturally frugal. She has to work at it and does well.

3) no, I will not be having my wife make a post. I can tell you what her priorities are. 1) to get rid of the roommate so we can be “grown-ups.” 2)to live somewhere “not old” (by this she means recently updated) 3 she wants enough space to have a large dinner table and chairs to host dinners. 4) she wants the place to be well respected by her family and friends. She wants them to be impressed.

To other posters- I don’t understand where the hostility is coming from. My wife and I had a plan/agreement and she has not been able to keep. We have been married 1 year, we have had a roommate for 2 years. I don’t understand how I am “unreasonable” when I have agreed to leave. I think people are reading more into the situation than is written. I am not going to go into any more specifics about the dynamics/agreements because it has no bearing on what kind of living situation we should move to.

Moving further from Portland is not an option, I am already 20 miles from the city and both my wife and I commute there 5 days per week for our employment. In my case I plan for my current job to be my future semi-fire job. We already live in the cheapest area we can within 25 minutes of both our jobs.

I like the house hack idea, however it would have to be multi-unit. The wife wants to get away from roommates.

Cassie

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2018, 11:03:17 PM »
People change their mind and it’s a compliment that she wants to be alone with you. I think you guys can find a compromise. Trust me marriage is a fluid moving experience that will change until the day you die.

Khaetra

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2018, 04:23:53 AM »
3) no, I will not be having my wife make a post. I can tell you what her priorities are. 1) to get rid of the roommate so we can be “grown-ups.” 2)to live somewhere “not old” (by this she means recently updated) 3 she wants enough space to have a large dinner table and chairs to host dinners. 4) she wants the place to be well respected by her family and friends. She wants them to be impressed.

Okay, so you agreed to move and be 'adults', but let's be a little realistic about house-hunting (and a little mustachian too) and ask you're wife a few honest questions... 

1) How often do you host dinners now?  Do you "need" a big formal dining room and will it actually be used?  Or will it be more of "Yes, we have a big formal dining room!  Aren't you impressed?  Isn't it pretty?" while the room itself collects dust because it's really not used.  People think they want a big dining room and unless you've been entertaining a large group for awhile now you will probably realize one isn't needed.  I have big gatherings (usually 10-12 people) and I have a tiny place and make it work.

2) How updated are we talking?  Would you consider doing some DIY if the place is solid but not fully updated?  You can save quite a sum if you buy an older place and fix it up yourself, plus then you can make it yours with what you put into it.  Plus then she would have reason to brag (Look what we did!  We installed X, Did Y and added Z) which would take care of her 'impress people' thing (which I don't get, but whatever).

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2018, 04:41:30 AM »
You’re gonna have to really focus on letting go of your “plan” and accepting the new reality or you will resent your wife and the marriage. I can imagine that feeling of betrayal just one year into the marriage. It’s clear you’re not happy about the change particularly because you feel her reasons are superficially motivated by impressing others. Let. That. Go. Stop judging and move on. It’s going to take you longer to achieve your plan, that’s fine. It’s not a race or competition and it’s the journey, not the destination.

Or, be honest with yourself and her. You hate the changed plan and you don’t want what she wants. Save yourself the years of fights and resentment. Become single, get your roommate and achieve what you want on your own.

Choose one path, you can’t live both.

partgypsy

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2018, 06:42:49 AM »
If you are not planning to relocate if u can find a house in the 325 range, i would go for it. In my area pple are buying 400k plus houses on lower combined salary, because that's what available, and prices keep going up. I think financially you are doing well. Don't let your optional desire to move to pt
 early, make you lose sight that you are in a marriage for the long haul,, and both people's values are important. Including your wife's desire to live without roommate, and entertain. If you can't get on board with listening to yr wife's needs, and negotiating so u both get some if what u want, better just get divorced now so you can have the ability to do everything 100% your way, and not be resentful.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 07:40:09 AM by partgypsy »

Malkynn

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2018, 07:52:36 AM »
Our current share of the household bills comes out to roughly 800$/month. I estimate without the roommate and moving up in apartment “quality” to cost a minimum of 1500-1600/month. More then likely around 2k/month depending on what I can get my wife to agree to.

Current gross income 135-140k combined, current assets are worth 190k, student loan debt of 17kish as our only debt.

Current annual living expenses around 35k.

Currently to get into the kind of house we would like the purchase price would be around 325k.

I condensed your post.  What does "household bills" mean?  Rent + utilities + groceries + common items?  What portion is rent?

How could you have a non-mustachian wife and still keep your expenses down to 35k?  That makes no sense...

Can you get your wife to post what she wants as well?  Otherwise you will get a lot of throw-away options that she will never agree to.
Household bills means what we have agreed to pay including cable/internet, 2/3rds of the rent, dog food, common items. Roommate pays 1/3rd of the rent, and electricity and some common items. Rent is 620/month and includes water.

2) good point. My wife is mustachian lite. She is mustachian but not naturally frugal. She has to work at it and does well.

3) no, I will not be having my wife make a post. I can tell you what her priorities are. 1) to get rid of the roommate so we can be “grown-ups.” 2)to live somewhere “not old” (by this she means recently updated) 3 she wants enough space to have a large dinner table and chairs to host dinners. 4) she wants the place to be well respected by her family and friends. She wants them to be impressed.

To other posters- I don’t understand where the hostility is coming from. My wife and I had a plan/agreement and she has not been able to keep. We have been married 1 year, we have had a roommate for 2 years. I don’t understand how I am “unreasonable” when I have agreed to leave. I think people are reading more into the situation than is written. I am not going to go into any more specifics about the dynamics/agreements because it has no bearing on what kind of living situation we should move to.

Moving further from Portland is not an option, I am already 20 miles from the city and both my wife and I commute there 5 days per week for our employment. In my case I plan for my current job to be my future semi-fire job. We already live in the cheapest area we can within 25 minutes of both our jobs.

I like the house hack idea, however it would have to be multi-unit. The wife wants to get away from roommates.

Dude...it’s the fucking Internet.

You posted about your marriage and you didn’t expect blowback and personal attacks???

K.
So to answer your actual questions:

-I’m a huge fan of renting, especially if you aren’t looking at a long time line. The cost of buying and owning is massive. It’s completely innacurate to compare rent to mortgage payments as that’s comparing apples to oranges. My mortgage payment is half of what my previous rent was, but between condo fees, property taxes, paying for all utilities, all services, all maintenance and repairs, etc, etc, owning has absolutely cost me substantially more over the past 4 years.

-You say leaving Portland isn’t an option, is that just while you are working or are you tethered there post-FIRE as well? If it’s just for the next 4 years, buying may not be ideal unless you are looking to stay invested in real estate anyway and be a landlord.

-I also love renting for other reasons: I loved the flexibility of being able to move more easily, I loved that I felt no pressure to update my kitchen or buy nicer furniture because I didn’t have the “forever home” bullshit justification. Why would I buy a super fancy dining room set if my next rental might not even have a dining room??
Now that I own and know that I will be here for a long time, I find myself “investing” in my home, and I periodically contemplate spending thousands on updating my bathroom. I would NEVER EVER EVER think about spending thousands updating anything in a rental. Some rentals have nice bathrooms, some don’t. You get what you get, you move if you get sick of it.

-I find being a minimalist much harder as a home owner. I’m settled, I am not anticipating packing any time soon, so I have much less of a mental resistance towards bringing things into my home. I have different curtains for different seasons for fuck’s sake. I mean, it makes sense given the drastic climate I live in, but rental apartment me would have never owned 3 sets of curtains. That’s just ridiculous.

-Owning does feel very grown up, and I looked forward to it back when I was a recent grad and all this grown up stuff was so new and exciting. Well...now that I’ve done it for a few years, it’s kind of tedious, and dinner parties are a stupid insane amount of work. I hosted 3...that was 3 too many. She may thrive in that sort of life, or she may end up finding it tedious too. Renting gives you the option to try it and bail on it if it doesn’t stick.

-Renting vs owning is as much of a lifestyle choice as it is a financial choice. You need to figure out for the two of you what kind of lifestyle you need to be happy, and that may involve being flexible and trying things for a bit to better learn where your limits are.

-that brings me to the most important point: you two need to be able to be on the same page. Whether or not you like where your wife’s stated “needs” are coming from, you need to be able to respect them. It doesn’t mean that she automatically gets her way, but dismissing her needs as invalid because you think she’s being influenced by others is hella patronizing and won’t get you anywhere.
You need to be able to respect where she is coming from if you have any hope of her respecting where you are coming from.

alanB

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2018, 08:17:02 AM »
Our current share of the household bills comes out to roughly 800$/month. I estimate without the roommate and moving up in apartment “quality” to cost a minimum of 1500-1600/month. More then likely around 2k/month depending on what I can get my wife to agree to.

Current gross income 135-140k combined, current assets are worth 190k, student loan debt of 17kish as our only debt.

Current annual living expenses around 35k.

Currently to get into the kind of house we would like the purchase price would be around 325k.

I condensed your post.  What does "household bills" mean?  Rent + utilities + groceries + common items?  What portion is rent?

How could you have a non-mustachian wife and still keep your expenses down to 35k?  That makes no sense...

Can you get your wife to post what she wants as well?  Otherwise you will get a lot of throw-away options that she will never agree to.
Household bills means what we have agreed to pay including cable/internet, 2/3rds of the rent, dog food, common items. Roommate pays 1/3rd of the rent, and electricity and some common items. Rent is 620/month and includes water.

2) good point. My wife is mustachian lite. She is mustachian but not naturally frugal. She has to work at it and does well.

3) no, I will not be having my wife make a post. I can tell you what her priorities are. 1) to get rid of the roommate so we can be “grown-ups.” 2)to live somewhere “not old” (by this she means recently updated) 3 she wants enough space to have a large dinner table and chairs to host dinners. 4) she wants the place to be well respected by her family and friends. She wants them to be impressed.

To other posters- I don’t understand where the hostility is coming from. My wife and I had a plan/agreement and she has not been able to keep. We have been married 1 year, we have had a roommate for 2 years. I don’t understand how I am “unreasonable” when I have agreed to leave. I think people are reading more into the situation than is written. I am not going to go into any more specifics about the dynamics/agreements because it has no bearing on what kind of living situation we should move to.

Moving further from Portland is not an option, I am already 20 miles from the city and both my wife and I commute there 5 days per week for our employment. In my case I plan for my current job to be my future semi-fire job. We already live in the cheapest area we can within 25 minutes of both our jobs.

I like the house hack idea, however it would have to be multi-unit. The wife wants to get away from roommates.

1) Dang that is some cheap rent.  That is a tough one.  If total costs including those things are only $2000/month I would definitely consider renting for a few years.  I don't know the Portland market well, but my gut feeling is that you are going to spend more than $325K at the end of the day.  There is no harm in looking at a bunch of houses and then giving up.

2) yay good job wife-of-murse :)

3) We got a really nice dining table set with a bench at a consignment shop for $300, that is like 90% of the way there, add in a cheap table runner and some place-mats and you are like fully fledged adults.  Host some dinner parties, if you can cook anything at all most people will be impressed. 

the other posters are all dumb and don't know what they are talking about, see I can be hostile too ;P  I would not lose sleep over it, as usual you just have to skim off the good advice and chuck out the whey (that analogy is for all those suckers duped into drinking skim milk ;P)

Rosy

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2018, 10:23:13 AM »
You will work it out, just tweak your plans a bit along the way:)

I'm with your wife on this one, but only because I fully understand the draw and need of having a place of your own. It is an inner satisfaction and security level that you can never get from an apartment.
The first time I arrived home and found the bug spray guy in my apartment I was horrified - yes, I knew they do this, but I hadn't realized they actually come into your space while you are off working.
As long as you live in an apartment someone else determines what happens in your home space - your home is not your castle, you can't pull up the drawbridge:)

... and yes, I've had roommates because it made sense financially and I was OK with it for a while.

I imagine your wife's family probably only want the best, they want to see her settled in a nice place of her own - that is what a successful life means to them. It is understandable, but it doesn't pay your mortgage or your bills and interferes enough with your life goals as a couple that you have concerns - also understandable:)

I was married to someone who never wanted to own a house, he only saw it as a responsibility and a lot of extra work - nothing would convince him otherwise. Admittedly it gnawed on my insides over time, because I really wanted a home of my own.
(I'm a widow and have owned several homes since - I can't describe the sense of accomplishment and security a home gives me.)
 
My advice is, work on the numbers and find a place that you can continue to pay the mortgage on if for whatever reason there is only one salary a month coming in. That may severely restrict the numbers, but I guarantee you this will be the best decision you ever made.

Basing your numbers on only one income is non-negotiable in my world and is indeed the only important consideration. Your wife's strong desire to own a home of her own trumps the numbers on rentvsown anytime - but not - if she or you couldn't make the mortgage payments, insurance, upkeep etc. on your own.
It will not be easy at first, it is a huge adjustment to go from renting to owning. There will be and should be a compromise, but it appears that you can afford a house if you tweak your plans a bit.
You'll still be plenty house poor in the first year until the dust has settled - ask any homeowner:)

I have a feeling you two are a good mix of math and emotion. How about you simulate this scenario - ask her to make the mortgage payments for the first six months - can she handle that?
(I assume you are the one handling the finances) - but I suggest that it could well be that she needs to experience the reality of paying everything incl. the mortgage out of her paycheck, to make it real for her - so that in the end, you can arrive at the numbers that work for you and make her happy too.

Keep us posted on what you come up with, I hear the real estate market in your area is "interesting".
GOOD LUCK!




Acastus

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2018, 11:33:04 AM »
You are missing out on running around the house naked and other activities a young couple should be enjoying. There is nothing like having a place to yourself.  As Cheech says in Bullets Over Broadway, "She makes things not work. Things she ain't even in." That is happening with your roomie. You just don't realize it.

You have oodles of income compared to a typical couple in their 20's. Live now. Save 10% less. You will still be able to save $50k per year.

Scandium

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2018, 11:41:51 AM »
Stop being ridiculous. You're not a kid anymore, you're a married man. It's time to start acting like one.

Seriously, it's time for a new wife.

I first read the subject as "rent vs buy wife"
I think renting the wife would be definitely be a good option.

Brother Esau

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2018, 12:57:45 PM »
Stop being ridiculous. You're not a kid anymore, you're a married man. It's time to start acting like one.

Seriously, it's time for a new wife.

I first read the subject as "rent vs buy wife"
I think renting the wife would be definitely be a good option.

Prolly a lease would be better. Absolutely no longer than 12 months though.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2018, 01:00:03 PM »
Stop being ridiculous. You're not a kid anymore, you're a married man. It's time to start acting like one.

Seriously, it's time for a new wife.

I first read the subject as "rent vs buy wife"
I think renting the wife would be definitely be a good option.

Prolly a lease would be better. Absolutely no longer than 12 months though.

A real mustachian would drive it till the wheels fall off, then replace with a used one.

alanB

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2018, 01:02:26 PM »
Stop being ridiculous. You're not a kid anymore, you're a married man. It's time to start acting like one.

Seriously, it's time for a new wife.

I first read the subject as "rent vs buy wife"
I think renting the wife would be definitely be a good option.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/japans-rent-a-family-industry
Sounds like current wife produces income in excess of expenses though, so maybe not the best option in this case :)

koshtra

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2018, 01:16:19 PM »
Heh. You seem to have touched a nerve among los Mustachianos.

Well, yeah, Portland. Buying a house right now will be an expensive proposition. If you wait for the Big Earthquake, houses will probably be dirt cheap for a couple years.... but that might be fifty years from now. A little too long to wait.

I think you need to do some more good talking about exactly what your wife wants out of "a place of her own," so you spend money on what you both really want and not anything that neither of you really wants. Really get your list of "what we want and what we need" thought through. You might *need* to own to satisfy that nesting urge. Or you might not.

Househunting (in my opinion) is a blast when you're on the same page and you're not desperate to get into any place in a big hurry. So make it a happy, relationship-building enterprise, so you both really get clued in to what the other likes and doesn't like about places you look at. Keeping looking and debriefing with each other. Then even if you decide to rent you'll have a much better idea of what you're looking for and where it can be found.

Really, make it fun, and lean into it. Your finances are fine and you don't need to worry about them. You're not in the position of a beginner who's trying to get off the ground -- you're in pretty good shape.

partgypsy

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2018, 02:16:32 PM »

The house is just the beginning.  You will need the new furniture and appliances, the remodeling, the additions, the deck and the pool/hot-tub, tile, library, garden, game room, bowling alley, walkways, fish pond, koi pond, drapes, carpet, lighting, security, landscaping, outdoor patio and cooking area, BBQ grill, and gazebo.  And that's before kids.

All women are expensive, but ex-wives are the most expensive of all!

That's bs. Everything is negotiable. I don't think they would be where they are, if his spouse wasn't responsible.
Heck in my (former) relationship, it was the husband who wanted the fancy toys like sound equipment, his own studio in the house, own studio outside the house, etc. don't typecast.

Rosy

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2018, 02:30:44 PM »
You are missing out on running around the house naked and other activities a young couple should be enjoying. There is nothing like having a place to yourself.  As Cheech says in Bullets Over Broadway, "She makes things not work. Things she ain't even in." That is happening with your roomie. You just don't realize it.

You have oodles of income compared to a typical couple in their 20's. Live now. Save 10% less. You will still be able to save $50k per year.

Oh yeah - THIS ^^^ is definitely one response you should show your wife:)

Bicycle_B

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2018, 02:47:05 PM »
IMHO good frugality is wise but expecting a young wife to accept a roommate for years is not.

The roommate thing is ok if and only if both spouses are really really into it. You can't have an agreement to be really really into it - your wife has to actually be really into it. Trying to hold her to her "agreement" is a mistake financially AND marriage wise. The marriage aspect is MUCH more important if you wish to have the kind of marriage that thrives for a lifetime.

If you are in fact "renting" a wife by trying to get her to be your ideal, when in fact she is different from what you want, you will indeed be "renting"...because IMHO the marriage won't last. Especially the love and excitement part. You have to love her as she actually is. If that conflicts with your dream of speedy FIRE, decide which one is more important. You won't get both.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 03:24:16 PM by Bicycle_B »

whywork

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2018, 07:14:11 PM »
OP, I am with your idea of living frugally now to FIRE sooner.

Your wife wants to live with you. That's a fair request. But you shouldnt agree to having a newer place, hosting dinners and all other expenses. Try to rent a studio apartment with just two of you and get rid of the roommate. I think that's a good compromise between your and her concerns.

Studio apartment also keeps away guests. In a way that saves a lot of money.

talltexan

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2018, 07:11:30 AM »
Maybe I misread some things, but it sounds like you're currently saving 70% of your income, and your wife is talking about a project (doubling housing expenses) that would make that 60%. Sure sounds like a mustachian savings rate to me.

Have a talk about values, yours (rejecting consumerism, preparing for the future) and hers (spending a little more money to develop and maintain specific relationships, have the privacy that many married couples do). Out of that 10% of income, you should be able to spend strategically and achieve this.

therethere

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2018, 08:03:03 AM »
OP, I am with your idea of living frugally now to FIRE sooner.

Your wife wants to live with you. That's a fair request. But you shouldnt agree to having a newer place, hosting dinners and all other expenses. Try to rent a studio apartment with just two of you and get rid of the roommate. I think that's a good compromise between your and her concerns.

Studio apartment also keeps away guests. In a way that saves a lot of money.

Wow what a debbie downer..... You can have guests without having a big to do! There is no reason your house has to be spotless, have perfectly coordinated and fancy food, and decorated just to have people over. I frequently invite people over with zero notice. I don't care if there is food on the unwashed floor or if there is no table for them to eat at. Sit on the couch and here's some pillows and folding chairs for extra seating. You spilled a drink because I don't have a table big enough for everyone? No big deal. If anything, having a space you can have people over for saves us money by not meeting them out.

Tuskalusa

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2018, 08:34:52 AM »
I think that your wife’s requests are reasonable. I also think getting an apartment with the space that you both agree on is wise. If my husband suggested that we move into a studio apartment and stop entertaining our friends, I’d have a serious problem with that. (Unless we were in some kind of serious financial trouble, of course.)

Managing to a frugal budget is important. But setting up an enjoyable life for everyone in the family is equally important.

px4shooter

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2018, 08:36:48 AM »
You are missing out on running around the house naked and other activities a young couple should be enjoying. There is nothing like having a place to yourself.  As Cheech says in Bullets Over Broadway, "She makes things not work. Things she ain't even in." That is happening with your roomie. You just don't realize it.

You have oodles of income compared to a typical couple in their 20's. Live now. Save 10% less. You will still be able to save $50k per year.

Sound advice. Roommates are find if you have to offset expenses, but that roommate is a wedge in your relationship.

And for a home price of 325k, you are throwing money away with the 2k rent idea.

Slowtraveler

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2018, 10:16:15 AM »
10% of income is massive.


At 80% savings rate, you save 4 yrs/1 yr work. That's 7 years to pass 25 years of expenses.
At 90% savings rate, you save 9 yrs/1 yr work. That's 3 years to retire.

MilesTeg

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2018, 10:20:18 AM »
10% of income is massive.


At 80% savings rate, you save 4 yrs/1 yr work. That's 7 years to pass 25 years of expenses.
At 90% savings rate, you save 9 yrs/1 yr work. That's 3 years to retire.

And none of that matters even one tiny bit if you have an unhappy marriage or a divorce.

mathlete

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2018, 10:44:52 AM »
Sounds like you resent your wife, as evidenced by you frequently putting her wants and desires in scare quotes.

The arrangement or deal you made was with a 24 year old woman fresh into a new situation, who probably doesn't value the same things in the same amounts that you do.

Does she care about retiring early? Have that conversation.

Slowtraveler

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2018, 11:01:43 AM »
Money is not the only thing that matters but it does sound like both parties feel their opinions aren't respected or valued. At least from my highly biased, very distant internet perspective.

Though I have to say the savings rate do matter. If savings rate gets bumped up 20% after a divorce, aspiring retiree will hit goal quicker with than without divorce. Also, they'll be more tax efficient.

All assuming no real return:
50% savings rate: 1yr saved/1yr working~25 years working
60% savings rate: 1.5yrs saved/yr worked~ 17 years working
70% sr: 2.33334 yrs saved/yr worked ~11 years of work
80% sr~ 7 yrs work
90% sr~ 3 years work.

So it cuts time to less than half in all mustachian scenarios (minimum 50% Sr). That matters as he can reach his goal quicker without her. Although if she's on board, there's plenty of ways to be social without jumping your expenses up so much. A studio rental, RV, boat, van dwelling, tiny house, meet at the park for some beers and joints (if not in Muslim or drug tyrannical area).

partgypsy

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2018, 11:31:22 AM »
Here's the thing. Having a good marriage/relationship provides many benefits other than a dollar amount. And generally, two people moving forward in the same direction, can make more progress due to splitting expenses, than 2 people solo. Also, having social connection with family and friends, has in a slew of studies been positively correlated with better health, living longer, feeling purpose, etc. It is HEALTH PROTECTIVE. So having a wife say she wants to live with you without a roommate stuck in the middle is a GOOD thing. It means she values your relationship. Wanting a place that she can have people over is a GOOD thing, as it is good to forge those kind of connections/social network, as well as not place all the social burden on each other. It doesn't have to look like a magazine spread (though I wouldn't be surprised if she went through a phase of this before she realizes this. Don't worry, it won't kill you) it doesn't have to be formal, but when you get that reciprocity going, not only is it a lot of fun, it can SAVE YOU MONEY. Yes, because you are not cooking every night, there are some nights other people are cooking. You are buying beverages in bulk, and enjoying them with friends, versus buying a single $6 beer at a bar. And maybe you even meet some friends who make their own beer, or kombucha, or like making bread.
And I'm serious that prices will keep getting higher so honestly, work with your wife on what you budget is to get a house, and go for it.   
Trust me, i'm older than you.  But if you don't believe me, maybe you and slow traveler with a roommate thrown in can all live in a rv and get to FI at a 90% savings rate, because yanno numbers don't lie.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 11:36:51 AM by partgypsy »

tralfamadorian

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2018, 12:41:20 PM »
Given that you're willing to give/loan six figures to your parents but belittling your bride's request to live without a roommate in a slightly nicer apartment, maybe you should take some time to re-evaluate your priorities and see if you are truly committing to the person you have declared to be your life partner.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/messy-family-loan-advice/

Cassie

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #45 on: June 07, 2018, 05:25:40 PM »
I also noticed that you gave $ to your parents with no problem but now don’t want a decent place to live without a roommate. If I was your wife I would be resentful of that.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2018, 07:25:34 PM »
@Slowtraveler, I knew I liked you :)

Murse

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2018, 08:21:08 PM »
I think you'd get better answers if you delete any references to your wife and roommate situation. Otherwise, it's just going to be lots of people commenting and assuming about your wife, marriage, communication, etc. It's all nonsense.

Your real question is: My wife and I  would like to move into our own place after years of having a roommate to save cash. We're moderately frugal. We're currently in Portland and would like to stay. Any ideas on cheaper apartments? Based on the market should we rent or own? Our priorities are xxxxxxxxxxxx.

I should of taken your advice, this is getting funny.

First off I have agreed to move. I did not make this post intending to get mustachians backing me staying with the roommate. I made this post simply to talk about housing issues, but hey at least I am getting lots of ideas.

@mathlete- I do not resent my wife. I think her reasons are silly and superficial (and will prove to be costly) however I do think there are good reasons for us to move (see partgypsy’s post.) I love my wife, divorce is not and will not be an option.

Yes I loaned my parents money, no it is not six figures. Yes they are paying interest on that loan (more then any bond funds pay,) yes I kept them and my uncles family off the streets and yes I am still continuing to make a positive impact in their lives. They have not taken out anymore loans, they are living within a budget, and paying about 1k per month towards debt (including minimum payments.) I am glad I did it and would do it 100 times over.

There is a lot more to this story then the quick run down I gave. Frankly it doesn’t matter to this post. I do appreciate those of you who have helped reframe my thinking. Cutting our savings rate 10% would not be the end of the world.






Cassie

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2018, 09:38:33 PM »
Marriage is compromise  and or fluid and always changing.   Sometimes people on this forum throw around divorce which is not good.   It is a horrible event to experience and should be taken seriously after all options have been considered. I say this after divorcing 2 husbands and happily married for the third time.

calimom

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Re: Moving, rent vs buy vs wife
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2018, 10:39:09 PM »
Kudos to you for considering all responses Murse. Count me among those who have found it curious that you're providing major economic outpatient assistance to what seems seems like your completely financially irresponsible parents without question, but dissing your wife, who appears to be frugal-ish and hard working for wanting to live in a roommate-free environment and have people over for dinner in a pleasant environment. I hope you continue to examine the disparity.