French Yellow Jackets

[gentmach]

The French know how to throw a party.

https://youtu.be/Aw-9o0GXrns

[maizefolk]

I've gotta say the approach of the BBC (lots of video with a few text annotations but no news anchors talking over the video or reporters talking to camera on the streets) makes for a much more emotionally powerful approach than how protests are covered in the USA.

My big take away is that, here in the USA, we tend to think of government as the primary barrier to climate change action: If we could just elect the right congress and the right president, things would get done. France is showing us that it would/will be harder than that. Even if the laws change, changing the fundamental way our economy works would/will come with a lot of pain for individuals, and we would/will need to be prepared for that as well.

[gentmach]

I agree. Nice XKCD avatar.

And I have to admit that I am a bit envious of them. They refused to lay down and die. A lot more than what my kin did.

[EricL]

I wish I could find some news source (in English) that explained how much the French fuel tax is and how much the increase would've been.  Bonus if it describes the other taxes endured that, when raised, pushed so many over the edge.  Rural France has always been at the mercy of tax crazed Parisians going back to its old monarchs.  But a little context for the current instance would be nice.

[maizefolk]

The French are currently paying $6.47/gallon for diesel, and are looking at it going up to ~$6.72 $6.75/gallon after the newest tax kicks in. So I'm guessing these protests are more about the principle of the thing (from the protester's perspective) than the direct financial impact of this one particular tax increase.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46331783

The price of diesel, the most commonly used fuel in French cars, has risen by around 23% over the past 12 months to an average of €1.51 (£1.32; $1.71) per litre, its highest point since the early 2000s, AFP reports.

World oil prices did rise before falling back again, but the Macron government raised its hydrocarbon tax this year by 7.6 cents per litre on diesel and 3.9 cents on petrol, as part of a campaign for cleaner cars and fuel.

The decision to impose a further increase of 6.5 cents on diesel and 2.9 cents on petrol on 1 January 2019 was seen as the final straw.

[mjr]

Even if the laws change, changing the fundamental way our economy works would/will come with a lot of pain for individuals, and we would/will need to be prepared for that as well.

Try calculating the total cost of what the global warming cohort is asking for.  It's astronomical.  That's not arguable, it's a fact.  It is arguable as to whether or not it would actually achieve anything even if it were to happen.

Then go on and look at the opportunity cost of the billions wasted on it already and what is being asked for and how those funds and research could be better spent.  Bjorn Lomborg springs to mind.

Population growth is the real problem awaiting the world, not this alarmist crap.

[former player]

Population growth is the real problem awaiting the world, not this alarmist crap.

It's both, not either/or.

[EricL]

The French are currently paying $6.47/gallon for diesel, and are looking at it going up to ~$6.72 $6.75/gallon after the newest tax kicks in. So I'm guessing these protests are more about the principle of the thing (from the protester's perspective) than the direct financial impact of this one particular tax increase.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46331783

The price of diesel, the most commonly used fuel in French cars, has risen by around 23% over the past 12 months to an average of €1.51 (£1.32; $1.71) per litre, its highest point since the early 2000s, AFP reports.

World oil prices did rise before falling back again, but the Macron government raised its hydrocarbon tax this year by 7.6 cents per litre on diesel and 3.9 cents on petrol, as part of a campaign for cleaner cars and fuel.

The decision to impose a further increase of 6.5 cents on diesel and 2.9 cents on petrol on 1 January 2019 was seen as the final straw.

Thanks.  I think a 23% increase counts as more than principal.  It’s way above inflation and combined with a blasé government attitude probably did a lot to stimulate outrage. 

[scottish]

Population growth is the real problem awaiting the world, not this alarmist crap.

It's both, not either/or.

And the real solution is probably going to be a combination of declining birth rates that reduce population and technological advances that reduce pollution.    It's hard to imagine people being happy to reduce their standard of living, even to save the planet from climate change.   

[waltworks]

If anyone needed more evidence that democracies can't emissions-cut their way out of climate change, this is it.

We are on the adapt-and-mitigate/geoengineer track at this point and we might as well get on with it.

-W

[Chris22]

The French are currently paying $6.47/gallon for diesel, and are looking at it going up to ~$6.72 $6.75/gallon after the newest tax kicks in. So I'm guessing these protests are more about the principle of the thing (from the protester's perspective) than the direct financial impact of this one particular tax increase.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46331783

The price of diesel, the most commonly used fuel in French cars, has risen by around 23% over the past 12 months to an average of €1.51 (£1.32; $1.71) per litre, its highest point since the early 2000s, AFP reports.

World oil prices did rise before falling back again, but the Macron government raised its hydrocarbon tax this year by 7.6 cents per litre on diesel and 3.9 cents on petrol, as part of a campaign for cleaner cars and fuel.

The decision to impose a further increase of 6.5 cents on diesel and 2.9 cents on petrol on 1 January 2019 was seen as the final straw.

Thanks.  I think a 23% increase counts as more than principal.  It’s way above inflation and combined with a blasé government attitude probably did a lot to stimulate outrage.

The problem is that about 20 years ago, the government demanded everyone buy a diesel car because the fuel economy was better, so they structured vehicle and fuel taxes to encourage diesel car ownership. Then all of the sudden they realized great, diesel has better economy but is terrible with localized particulate emissions which makes them much less desirable in cities so they suddenly swung the taxes the other way, after basically forcing people into diesels they are punishing them for having them (excluding them for cities, higher fuel taxes, etc). It’s just ham-handed mismanagement by a government that claims to know what’s best for everyone. The Libertarian in me loves these protests, even if I may not 100% understand all the nuance behind them. I love that they are torching speed cameras too.

[Ananas]

If anyone needed more evidence that democracies can't emissions-cut their way out of climate change, this is it.

We are on the adapt-and-mitigate/geoengineer track at this point and we might as well get on with it.

-W

Yellow jacket demonstrations have little to do with the tax on fuel. It was just the last straw.
If you look at Macrons speech, it becomes clear, where he promises to raise minimum wages by 100 euros etc. Macron, when he came to power, decided that he should lower taxes to the richest 1 % of the population and to pay for this he would raise taxes on among other things fuel.
So the people with little money are taxed more (by taxing fuel) to give rich people a tax cut. In my view the demonstrations are about fairness, the lower classes feel f***d by the neoliberal politics that have been thrust upon them by the successive governments (not just Macron).

[Zola.]

The French are currently paying $6.47/gallon for diesel, and are looking at it going up to ~$6.72 $6.75/gallon after the newest tax kicks in. So I'm guessing these protests are more about the principle of the thing (from the protester's perspective) than the direct financial impact of this one particular tax increase.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46331783

The price of diesel, the most commonly used fuel in French cars, has risen by around 23% over the past 12 months to an average of €1.51 (£1.32; $1.71) per litre, its highest point since the early 2000s, AFP reports.

World oil prices did rise before falling back again, but the Macron government raised its hydrocarbon tax this year by 7.6 cents per litre on diesel and 3.9 cents on petrol, as part of a campaign for cleaner cars and fuel.

The decision to impose a further increase of 6.5 cents on diesel and 2.9 cents on petrol on 1 January 2019 was seen as the final straw.

Thanks.  I think a 23% increase counts as more than principal.  It’s way above inflation and combined with a blasé government attitude probably did a lot to stimulate outrage.

The problem is that about 20 years ago, the government demanded everyone buy a diesel car because the fuel economy was better, so they structured vehicle and fuel taxes to encourage diesel car ownership. Then all of the sudden they realized great, diesel has better economy but is terrible with localized particulate emissions which makes them much less desirable in cities so they suddenly swung the taxes the other way, after basically forcing people into diesels they are punishing them for having them (excluding them for cities, higher fuel taxes, etc). It’s just ham-handed mismanagement by a government that claims to know what’s best for everyone. The Libertarian in me loves these protests, even if I may not 100% understand all the nuance behind them. I love that they are torching speed cameras too.

This is so true!

[Melisande]

If anyone needed more evidence that democracies can't emissions-cut their way out of climate change, this is it.

We are on the adapt-and-mitigate/geoengineer track at this point and we might as well get on with it.

-W

Yellow jacket demonstrations have little to do with the tax on fuel. It was just the last straw.
If you look at Macrons speech, it becomes clear, where he promises to raise minimum wages by 100 euros etc. Macron, when he came to power, decided that he should lower taxes to the richest 1 % of the population and to pay for this he would raise taxes on among other things fuel.
So the people with little money are taxed more (by taxing fuel) to give rich people a tax cut. In my view the demonstrations are about fairness, the lower classes feel f***d by the neoliberal politics that have been thrust upon them by the successive governments (not just Macron).

This. I agree that it is about much more than just the fuel tax. It is about what has been perceived as Macron's arrogance and unfairness. This fuller account is hard to find in American media, though.

[Kris]

If anyone needed more evidence that democracies can't emissions-cut their way out of climate change, this is it.

We are on the adapt-and-mitigate/geoengineer track at this point and we might as well get on with it.

-W

Yellow jacket demonstrations have little to do with the tax on fuel. It was just the last straw.
If you look at Macrons speech, it becomes clear, where he promises to raise minimum wages by 100 euros etc. Macron, when he came to power, decided that he should lower taxes to the richest 1 % of the population and to pay for this he would raise taxes on among other things fuel.
So the people with little money are taxed more (by taxing fuel) to give rich people a tax cut. In my view the demonstrations are about fairness, the lower classes feel f***d by the neoliberal politics that have been thrust upon them by the successive governments (not just Macron).

This. I agree that it is about much more than just the fuel tax. It is about what has been perceived as Macron's arrogance and unfairness. This fuller account is hard to find in American media, though.

No kidding. And the online comments sections of the articles you do find are filled with Americans spouting absolute nonsense regarding what it’s all about. It’s unreal.