MMM Hate

[tooqk4u22]

Your definition that I responded to wasn't you talking about FI or FU money.  You specifically stated:
A) if your investments can support your "DESIRED" lifestyle then you are FIRE'd".

Based on that definition, I am already FIREd, because I already have enough stash for FAT FIRE to support my DESIRED lifestyle, more than double my required expenses, even though I'm still working over 40 hours per week at the same full time job I've had for 18 years.  No pension, necessity to work, nor golden handcuffs in the mix - all irrelevant.  I think it's ridiculous to suggest that I'm already FIREd to anyone.  So what, my stash passed a threshold one day, but nothing else in my life changed.  The job continues as it has for years.  I'm merely FI, not FIREd.

I don't call that FIREd, and I don't call it retired.  I call it working my full time job while being FI.  But that's fine for anyone that disagrees and wants to called me FIREd.  Either way, I'm on the cohort list to FIRE at a future date, when I will stop working at my job and be truly FIREd.

arebelspy explained the difference between FI and RE on this forum about 5 years back:

Dummy question but what is really the difference?

FI/Financially independent = You no longer have to work for money, your investments provide enough to cover your annual living expenses.

RE (or ER) = You retired from your job.  Usually after FI.

Semi-ER = You switched to part-time work.

MMM equates the two terms as identical, even if you haven't yet left your job he calls you "retired."  Many of us here disagree.  But the above are the most common definitions.

That's all well and good, I guess I see it more like MMM in that regard.   While you may still be working the job you have been doing for the last year it could be viewed as you retired from the BS and HAVING to work that job and started to work the job by choice or for fun or to keep busy or whatever.  I also get that if you said to people that you FIRE'd and are still in the same job typical people would look at you like you're crazy, so in that aspect is more of an internal mindset.  But then again most of us aren't typical if we are here.

I am curious though, if you don't have any kind of handcuffs and are truly FI (ie don't need anymore money to fund your desired lifestyle and are fully confident in whatever WR that translates to) then why are you choosing to continue? 

Not be sarcastic or anything, is not having anything to retire to or wondering how to fill the days....I ask because I think about that as well, there is more to this than just the financial aspect, the psychology does play a role.

[dragoncar]

Since the divorce, MMM has popped up on a few of the other blogs I frequent with varying degrees of awareness. Much like many MSM articles that allow comments, the misinformation, assumptions, and straight up lies about what he is or is not is shocking. People aren't educated, and don't want to be educated. Several pages of people arguing whether he's retired or not. "He run a blog. It makes money. Not retired. QED". "He eats catfood, never travels or does anything fun, just sits in his home alone counting dollars"

What causes this? Why is this subject so bloody controversial and bringing out the worst in so many people? Why do people go out of their way to remain ignorant, and discount what he says, by straight up twisting it to fit whatever biases they have?

Maybe it comes from anger toward themselves over not being able to restrain themselves from buying this or that. Over the years, I just assumed we weren't doing as well as others. We weren't taking the fancy vacations, driving beautiful cars. Our clothing is okay but not the best. The furlough has happened and I see people saying they will stop their Target runs. "Target run" as thought that is a noun. Wow! People are doing things like "Target runs" and using up their money for it. This is scary for many reasons.

Well, people realize they don't have much saved. They see they spent too much on stupid things and they feel bad, so they lash out at strangers.

Target run could mean anything, though.  Some people get household essentials at Target.

[oldtoyota]

Since the divorce, MMM has popped up on a few of the other blogs I frequent with varying degrees of awareness. Much like many MSM articles that allow comments, the misinformation, assumptions, and straight up lies about what he is or is not is shocking. People aren't educated, and don't want to be educated. Several pages of people arguing whether he's retired or not. "He run a blog. It makes money. Not retired. QED". "He eats catfood, never travels or does anything fun, just sits in his home alone counting dollars"

What causes this? Why is this subject so bloody controversial and bringing out the worst in so many people? Why do people go out of their way to remain ignorant, and discount what he says, by straight up twisting it to fit whatever biases they have?

Maybe it comes from anger toward themselves over not being able to restrain themselves from buying this or that. Over the years, I just assumed we weren't doing as well as others. We weren't taking the fancy vacations, driving beautiful cars. Our clothing is okay but not the best. The furlough has happened and I see people saying they will stop their Target runs. "Target run" as thought that is a noun. Wow! People are doing things like "Target runs" and using up their money for it. This is scary for many reasons.

Well, people realize they don't have much saved. They see they spent too much on stupid things and they feel bad, so they lash out at strangers.

Target run could mean anything, though.  Some people get household essentials at Target.

Of course. However, the people I'm speaking of are going for fun. Spending money is fun for them. Some indicated that they didn't miss a thing by not going on their "Target run." If they are not missing a thing, then they weren't getting essentials at least some of the time.

[nereo]

Since the divorce, MMM has popped up on a few of the other blogs I frequent with varying degrees of awareness. Much like many MSM articles that allow comments, the misinformation, assumptions, and straight up lies about what he is or is not is shocking. People aren't educated, and don't want to be educated. Several pages of people arguing whether he's retired or not. "He run a blog. It makes money. Not retired. QED". "He eats catfood, never travels or does anything fun, just sits in his home alone counting dollars"

What causes this? Why is this subject so bloody controversial and bringing out the worst in so many people? Why do people go out of their way to remain ignorant, and discount what he says, by straight up twisting it to fit whatever biases they have?

Maybe it comes from anger toward themselves over not being able to restrain themselves from buying this or that. Over the years, I just assumed we weren't doing as well as others. We weren't taking the fancy vacations, driving beautiful cars. Our clothing is okay but not the best. The furlough has happened and I see people saying they will stop their Target runs. "Target run" as thought that is a noun. Wow! People are doing things like "Target runs" and using up their money for it. This is scary for many reasons.

Well, people realize they don't have much saved. They see they spent too much on stupid things and they feel bad, so they lash out at strangers.

Target run could mean anything, though.  Some people get household essentials at Target.

We make a 'Target Run' every ~6 weeks or so - for us it's a pretty significant trip since it's about 40 minutes away and its the only place we can get many household items other than 'online' (we live in a very rural area). It's often coupled with a trip to the big-box home improvement store across the street.  OTOH, I have heard many suburban people talk about making "Target Run"s as a frequent source of consumer entertainment.  I dont really understand the appeal for that sort of thing.

[DreamFIRE]

Your definition that I responded to wasn't you talking about FI or FU money.  You specifically stated:
A) if your investments can support your "DESIRED" lifestyle then you are FIRE'd".

Based on that definition, I am already FIREd, because I already have enough stash for FAT FIRE to support my DESIRED lifestyle, more than double my required expenses, even though I'm still working over 40 hours per week at the same full time job I've had for 18 years.  No pension, necessity to work, nor golden handcuffs in the mix - all irrelevant.  I think it's ridiculous to suggest that I'm already FIREd to anyone.  So what, my stash passed a threshold one day, but nothing else in my life changed.  The job continues as it has for years.  I'm merely FI, not FIREd.

I don't call that FIREd, and I don't call it retired.  I call it working my full time job while being FI.  But that's fine for anyone that disagrees and wants to called me FIREd.  Either way, I'm on the cohort list to FIRE at a future date, when I will stop working at my job and be truly FIREd.

arebelspy explained the difference between FI and RE on this forum about 5 years back:

Dummy question but what is really the difference?

FI/Financially independent = You no longer have to work for money, your investments provide enough to cover your annual living expenses.

RE (or ER) = You retired from your job.  Usually after FI.

Semi-ER = You switched to part-time work.

MMM equates the two terms as identical, even if you haven't yet left your job he calls you "retired."  Many of us here disagree.  But the above are the most common definitions.

That's all well and good, I guess I see it more like MMM in that regard.   While you may still be working the job you have been doing for the last year it could be viewed as you retired from the BS and HAVING to work that job and started to work the job by choice or for fun or to keep busy or whatever.  I also get that if you said to people that you FIRE'd and are still in the same job typical people would look at you like you're crazy, so in that aspect is more of an internal mindset.  But then again most of us aren't typical if we are here.

I am curious though, if you don't have any kind of handcuffs and are truly FI (ie don't need anymore money to fund your desired lifestyle and are fully confident in whatever WR that translates to) then why are you choosing to continue? 

Not be sarcastic or anything, is not having anything to retire to or wondering how to fill the days....I ask because I think about that as well, there is more to this than just the financial aspect, the psychology does play a role.

Really, it's because I like my job right now, more than ever.  And even though cFireSim gives me 100% with a conservative AA for a semi-FAT FIRE (more than double my required expenses), I still get satisifaction of bringing home a paycheck. For about 16 years, until a couple years back, I worked in a shared office space and was really looking forward to escaping that.  But a 20 million dollar expansion and new office space led to me getting my own private office in the last two years.  I can still get out and about to mingle with friends/coworkers whenever I want, and I can focus more on my work without the distractions from others while in the office.  I have a greater sense of freedom and flexiblity than ever, and my workload has shifted to more interesting projects and assignments in recent years also.

If I could have this same arrangement while working 3 days per week, that would be perfect, but that's not an option.  Even suggesting such a thing would likely prompt my CIO to bring in someone to cross-train with me, losing the privacy I waited so long for to receive, so I continue full time a while longer.  I'm not ready to give up the job when it's the best it's been over 18 years.  I'm planning to move on no later than 2020.  I have various thoughts and ideas written down regarding what I want to do after I FIRE, and I feel pretty confident I'll be able to keep myself occupied, but there's not anything in particular that's driving me to FIRE sooner with any urgency.

[dragoncar]

Since the divorce, MMM has popped up on a few of the other blogs I frequent with varying degrees of awareness. Much like many MSM articles that allow comments, the misinformation, assumptions, and straight up lies about what he is or is not is shocking. People aren't educated, and don't want to be educated. Several pages of people arguing whether he's retired or not. "He run a blog. It makes money. Not retired. QED". "He eats catfood, never travels or does anything fun, just sits in his home alone counting dollars"

What causes this? Why is this subject so bloody controversial and bringing out the worst in so many people? Why do people go out of their way to remain ignorant, and discount what he says, by straight up twisting it to fit whatever biases they have?

Maybe it comes from anger toward themselves over not being able to restrain themselves from buying this or that. Over the years, I just assumed we weren't doing as well as others. We weren't taking the fancy vacations, driving beautiful cars. Our clothing is okay but not the best. The furlough has happened and I see people saying they will stop their Target runs. "Target run" as thought that is a noun. Wow! People are doing things like "Target runs" and using up their money for it. This is scary for many reasons.

Well, people realize they don't have much saved. They see they spent too much on stupid things and they feel bad, so they lash out at strangers.

Target run could mean anything, though.  Some people get household essentials at Target.

We make a 'Target Run' every ~6 weeks or so - for us it's a pretty significant trip since it's about 40 minutes away and its the only place we can get many household items other than 'online' (we live in a very rural area). It's often coupled with a trip to the big-box home improvement store across the street.  OTOH, I have heard many suburban people talk about making "Target Run"s as a frequent source of consumer entertainment.  I dont really understand the appeal for that sort of thing.

There's very little I would consider "fun" at target.  Except maybe the games section, which is pretty small.

[MonkeyJenga]

Oh yall mean Tarjay? We used to go to look at bags or clothes or shit. Cute and cheap, just how I like my men.

[nereo]

There's very little I would consider "fun" at target.  Except maybe the games section, which is pretty small.

The games section at our target just depresses me.  90% of the games offered are the boring 'classic' games, many of which (IMO) aren't all that great and/or I've owned for years.  Very few of the games listed in "What are you playing" thread.

[Dicey]

Since the divorce, MMM has popped up on a few of the other blogs I frequent with varying degrees of awareness. Much like many MSM articles that allow comments, the misinformation, assumptions, and straight up lies about what he is or is not is shocking. People aren't educated, and don't want to be educated. Several pages of people arguing whether he's retired or not. "He run a blog. It makes money. Not retired. QED". "He eats catfood, never travels or does anything fun, just sits in his home alone counting dollars"

What causes this? Why is this subject so bloody controversial and bringing out the worst in so many people? Why do people go out of their way to remain ignorant, and discount what he says, by straight up twisting it to fit whatever biases they have?

Maybe it comes from anger toward themselves over not being able to restrain themselves from buying this or that. Over the years, I just assumed we weren't doing as well as others. We weren't taking the fancy vacations, driving beautiful cars. Our clothing is okay but not the best. The furlough has happened and I see people saying they will stop their Target runs. "Target run" as thought that is a noun. Wow! People are doing things like "Target runs" and using up their money for it. This is scary for many reasons.

Well, people realize they don't have much saved. They see they spent too much on stupid things and they feel bad, so they lash out at strangers.

Target run could mean anything, though.  Some people get household essentials at Target.

We make a 'Target Run' every ~6 weeks or so - for us it's a pretty significant trip since it's about 40 minutes away and its the only place we can get many household items other than 'online' (we live in a very rural area). It's often coupled with a trip to the big-box home improvement store across the street.  OTOH, I have heard many suburban people talk about making "Target Run"s as a frequent source of consumer entertainment.  I dont really understand the appeal for that sort of thing.

There's very little I would consider "fun" at target.  Except maybe the games section, which is pretty small.

Huh. I'm sick and used up the last cold medicine three hours ago. There's a Walgreen's, RiteAid, and something something else closer, but I'm going to go to Target for best selection/price ratio. It won't be a run by any means. More like a slog. The medicine I just used up was Theraflu ExpressMax, which was pretty good. I bought it at the 99 Cents Only Store last year. I am already dreading what the replacement is going to cost. Wish me luck.

[nereo]

Hope you feel better @Dicey

[Dicey]

Thanks, nereo, I think it worked. They had the same stuff for "only" $6.49, so I resupplied.

We were supposed to go to a regular monthly thing tonight, but I'm going to stay home and keep my germs to myself. DH is going to go. I wanted to buy something for an appetizer that DH could just heat up and I didn't have to worry about "contaminating". OMG, I was shocked at Target's grocery prices. Crazy higher than what I usually pay at my cheap-o places. At checkout, I listened to the cashier extol the utility of a Target Red Card to the people ahead of me in line. When she got to me, I politely said, "I know you have to ask, but I do not want a Red Card, thank you." She was wise enough not to push the point. But OMG, the prices!! Oh, and they had a display of Method soap next to the checkstand with a sign promoting them at 5% off! Way to mete out the discounts, Target. My takeaway is I'm grateful that I live in a place that has lots of lower-price options if you just know where to look and aren't too proud to shop there.