So, I ask you to look at your thumb, your eye, your heart, your foot. If you ever saw anything close to these and as complex as they are in any other realm, other than creation, would you conclude that it randomly evolved by chance. You're thinking people, work through this in your mind. Is it really conceivable that this planet, this universe, just happened?
I look at my thumb and see that I can do (completely useless) things most people cant do.
I look at my eyes (figurativly) and see that they see worse in 3 ways then most of other people.
I look at my heart and dont know much about it, but I know that my liver has an illness commonly the result of alcohol abuse, even if i dont drink any in my whole life.
If I look at my feet I see that only an operation early in my life allows me to walk.
Conclusion: God is either a sadist, a very bad designer or non-existent.
Also you make a basic error in your (nothing proving anyway) quotes: You take only believers. Or a book that was written by dozens of authors in a language you wouldnt be able to understand even if you learnt all words. And from which parts were thrown away when they didnt fit the churchs wishes. And which ist still highly contradictional in itself.
but many equally unqualified won't admit that and think they can.
By the way, those who are most unfit in something think they are the best in it (on average of course as always in statistics) = if you are bad in something you are also bad in judging if someone is good or bad in it.
Explains a lot of management, if you ask me.
"Conclusion: God is either a sadist, a very bad designer or non-existent."
LennStar, as far as you can see, right now, these are the conclusions that you draw from your experience in life.I do understand these conclusions.
But to get the big picture,and we all need a big picture of how we fit in this world, we are going to have to bring the Bible into the discussion.
The Bible seems to be relatively unknown and dismissed in our day. It records the history of Creation, the Fall of mankind, the introduction of sin and death into the world, God's promise of a Redeemer, the prophesies of that Redeemer, the arrival of the Redeemer, the death, burial, and resurrection of the Redeemer,the ascension of the Redeemer to Heaven, and the return of the Redeemer in Glory.
The Bible has a very different agenda than the one we all embrace from our birth.
Ok, so for our discussion we are going to have to assume the Truth of the Bible, and use examples from it as if they were God's Word. If you want to do some research on the Bible on your own, here is a good place to start:
http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-God-Word.html,
First, Christians are Trinitarian, which means that we bellevue in One God in Three Persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Is this mind blowing? It is to me. I remember, I once tried to explain the Trinity to children using an egg as an example, "It is one egg in three parts, the shell, the yolk, and the white. A pastor friend was horrified by that example, so I do not think I can explain it/
There are many things I know of God from His Word that I can't explain, but God is not able to be put in a box by His creatures. His ways are far above ours. He is God.
In the
beginning God created the Universe. He spoke the world into existence. He formed man and animal out of the dust of the ground, and breathed life into man. Woman God made from man. They were perfect. Creation was perfect.
God gave the man, Adam, rulership over all creation.Man was given free will to obey or disobey God.
Next, I will let the Bible speak for itself here: Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. 16The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." Genesis 2:15.
Adam and Eve chose to forfeit the Garden of Eden, the perfect fellowship with God and creation, for themselves and for all mankind. Sin, death, disease, estrangement from God entered into the world.
Adam and Eve chose against the blessings of God for themselves, and for all mankind for the false promise of being like God themselves.
If that were the end state for man, we probably would not be having this discussion, because mankind could not have survived without God's redemptive Hand. But, God did intervene.
For now, I have to stop, but I will pick up here later.
Please remember community, LennStar, directed this dilemma to me. I can only answer it from my understanding. I believe the Bible to be the Word of God.I can only present it to you as I believe it, you must do what you choose with it.
Next, The Promise of the Redeemer
I just saw a new post. I will not be able to address any new posts until my answer to LennStar is complete. Since that answer will span the whole Bible, it may answer some of the questions.