Author Topic: marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the wedding  (Read 7144 times)

Runny

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Not sure if it has been posted before, but I just came across this paper ‘A Diamond is Forever’ and Other Fairy Tales: The Relationship between Wedding Expenses and Marriage Duration
In this study the researchers found evidence that marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the engagement ring and wedding ceremony.

You can check it out here http://ssrn.com/abstract=2501480

No wonder celebrity marriages don't last!

TheRabbit

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Interesting!

That bodes well for my marriage. I found the kind of ring I wanted and then bought it second-hand (and a 1/4 of the price) on ebay! BOOM!

My Dad paid for our wedding mostly using his Bitcoins (crazy how crypto-currency took off there) and my Mom is crafty and made everything by hand using items from the thrift store, so all in all, very little money was spent on our wedding.

I'm sure that will be the general trend in here, but I had to share about the ebay ring and Bitcoin wedding, thought you would all get a kick out off it!

paddedhat

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I'm grinning like a cat at the scene of a crashed tuna fish truck. July 21st. will be our 30th. I don't remember what the stupid ring cost, only that it was a cheap remount of a "used" diamond. I remember laughing like a fool at a snotty old bag in a jewelry store, when I asked if she could beat the price of the ring we ended up buying. She stiffened up, pointed her snooty nose in the air, and said, in a condescending, nearly British tone, "you are aware that that is a USED diamond, I hope?". The wife didn't regularly drop by the jeweler for the mandatory "prong check", and a few years later the diamond was lost. She was heart broken, I had had it with the whole diamond fraud by then, and didn't really care.

As for the wedding, $75 dress from JC Penney's, a reception at a buddies family picnic grove, and a few hundred in beer, burgers, and other picnic supplies.

G-dog

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$35 for the justice of the peace. $500 ring (engagement + wedding). Done. No showers, no ceremony, no reception, no special/new clothes. A couple of low key parties afterward hosted by others.

Retired To Win

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... In this study the researchers found evidence that marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the engagement ring and wedding ceremony.

You can check it out here http://ssrn.com/abstract=2501480...

Right away, what came into my mind is that unrealistic spending on the ring and the wedding is a reflection and symptom of unrealistic expectations for the marriage.  And that the more unrealistic the expectations, the more unrealistic the spending.  Which then directly leads to faster disillusionment and breakup.

big_slacker

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I choke every time I hear of what people spend on weddings. We got married on the beach at home with under 20 close friends and family, IIRC it cost us very little for the use of the beach and plastic chairs and a minister. I think it was $200 or so. Rented tux and my parents picked up the bar tab which I believe was the most expensive part. Marriage is tough enough, even when you love each other and are committed to it. Adding $20k-50k-OMGWTFareyouthinking spending and debt on top of it?

My parents have cheap white gold bands and had a small wedding at their church. 50 years later.... :)

Colgate_Toothpaste

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My wife's ring was $1500 on sale.  I probably could have done a little better shopping around, but I'm not really going to fret over it.

My ring was $120- I opted for stainless steel and not tungsten due to the hardness.  440C stainless gets up to 60 RwC, while tungsten can be upwards of 90 RwC.  Long story short, tungsten can break the crap out of anything it touches while stainless might be a little more forgiving and at a lower cost. 

As for the wedding, my wife's parents paid for everything.  I requested a very small private wedding and I would foot the bill (immediate family only).  Actually, I would have been fine with a JOTP paper signing event but I was told that was "selfish." (not that I agree with that statement).  I was outvoted and the wedding wound up being larger than I wanted, but my wife was happy and everyone had a good time.  Had it been out of my wallet, I would have done the JOTP approach.  I don't see the value in lavish weddings. 
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 09:11:02 AM by Colgate_Toothpaste »

MoneyCat

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Spending $30,000+ on a wedding tells you a lot about the character of the people getting married.  They are selfish and materialistic people who care more about what other people think of them than the actual marriage and that's why their marriages fail.

TheRedHead

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Hmmmm. My husband and I are looking at 20 years this May.
My engagement ring was my grandmothers (1 karat) diamond reset into a setting chosen by my husband. My parents had budgeted $10,000 for our wedding and I think we stuck pretty close to that though may have gone over a bit (and this was back in 1995). I had a lovely, fancy, silk dress custom made (cheaper than buying it ready made), loads of bridesmaids (cousins and friends) and a fun big party. The cake was made by my mom's friend who is a professional baker (Devils food with buttercream - heaven!) We were surrounded (literally, the chapel was round) by family and friends, we danced the night away and had a marvelous time. I don't think it's how much, or how little, you spend on a wedding, it's who you are marrying and how well you know them and how compatible you are.
We were the first of our friends to get married so we had no expectations for anything other than our own. So we made our wedding what we wanted it to be and we (and everyone else) had a marvelous time. The only thing I would have changed is using a different photographer. The one we used was awful but we have the pictures and that's what counts :)

TheRedHead

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Spending $30,000+ on a wedding tells you a lot about the character of the people getting married.  They are selfish and materialistic people who care more about what other people think of them than the actual marriage and that's why their marriages fail.

I disagree. My cousin spent at least that (or her parents did) and she isn't selfish, materialistic or self-centered. And her character is perfectly fine. Their marriage is extremely strong and will definitely last. She married a marvelous man and they are wonderful to be around. I have another cousin who spent well over $100k on his wedding (or the brides parents did) as it was a large society wedding. They, too, are still married many years later and are doing well and are happy.

It's not how much you spend on the wedding, it's the people involved. You can spend $10 or $100k but if you're not ready to be married and aren't willing to grow with your partner, the marriage will not last.

southern granny

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Re: marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the wedding
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2015, 09:50:29 AM »
Not sure if it has been posted before, but I just came across this paper ‘A Diamond is Forever’ and Other Fairy Tales: The Relationship between Wedding Expenses and Marriage Duration
In this study the researchers found evidence that marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the engagement ring and wedding ceremony.

You can check it out here http://ssrn.com/abstract=2501480

No wonder celebrity marriages don't last!

It is true for us.  We will celebrate 40 years of marriage in a few months.  We paid for our wedding ourselves and the total cost was probably less than $1000 total including the rings.  It was a church wedding with a cake and punch reception in the church hall. 

phillyvalue

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Re: marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the wedding
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2015, 10:08:06 AM »
Spending $30,000+ on a wedding tells you a lot about the character of the people getting married.  They are selfish and materialistic people who care more about what other people think of them than the actual marriage and that's why their marriages fail.

I disagree. My cousin spent at least that (or her parents did) and she isn't selfish, materialistic or self-centered. And her character is perfectly fine. Their marriage is extremely strong and will definitely last. She married a marvelous man and they are wonderful to be around. I have another cousin who spent well over $100k on his wedding (or the brides parents did) as it was a large society wedding. They, too, are still married many years later and are doing well and are happy.

It's not how much you spend on the wedding, it's the people involved. You can spend $10 or $100k but if you're not ready to be married and aren't willing to grow with your partner, the marriage will not last.

Like any other spending item it's all relative to your ability to afford it. The typical couple who spends a lot on the traditional wedding can't really afford it, and the effect is probably two-fold: (1) The significant spending on the wedding itself creates an initial stress that otherwise wouldn't be there, and (2) it signals that the couple isn't able to make financial compromises, a sign of future financial stress on the marriage. So my guess is that instead of "marriage duration is inversely associated with marriage spending in absolute $" the true relationship is with marriage spending vs ability to afford.


The Pigeon

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Re: marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the wedding
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2015, 11:13:46 AM »
Yeah, not necessarily...
I was married once--we spent $700 for the wedding, dress, shoes, flowers, officiant & reception, $100 for the divorce. In and out under a grand! Lasted 5 years. (Should have lasted 2.5). :-/

-p

FatCat

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Re: marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the wedding
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2015, 11:55:43 AM »
There are a lot of factors at play here. Maybe wealthy people get divorced more often. Or maybe couples who start their marriage with a big non-asset debt fair poorer. When you buy a big house and have a big mortgage at least you feel like you can sell it and clear your debt away. With a wedding you have nothing of value to show for it. Maybe a ring that's not worth that much on the used market, but you're not really going to get rid of that unless you get divorced.

Also maybe people who didn't spend a lot on their wedding are also the type of people worried about how much a divorce is going to hurt their net worth. I know a few people in horrible marriages because they're worried about the financial impact of splitting up all the assets. I know one couple having trouble right now thinking about divorce because of suspected cheating. She doesn't want to get a divorce because she doesn't make enough money to support her own lifestyle and shopping habits. He doesn't want to get a divorce because he doesn't want to lose his house to her since the woman usually gets the house.


She stiffened up, pointed her snooty nose in the air, and said, in a condescending, nearly British tone, "you are aware that that is a USED diamond, I hope?"

I thought the whole point is that a diamond is forever. That rock existed way before any of us were born and wherever it is now it'll keep existing for a long time after we're gone. I don't see the word "used" as being relevant when it comes to shiny rocks.

Spending $30,000+ on a wedding tells you a lot about the character of the people getting married.  They are selfish and materialistic people who care more about what other people think of them than the actual marriage and that's why their marriages fail.

I know someone who spent way more than that. It was just because her parents were paying for it all. They felt obligated to pay for whole thing because "bride's parents pay for weddings." I think the total bill was like $50k - $70k. Before you think maybe they're really rich, they said it was over half their retirement savings. When the next daughter wanted to get married, they were willing to pay as much as she wanted, but she only wanted to buy a $1000 wedding dress and $300 of food catering. I actually think she went cheap because she felt bad about the idea of wiping out the rest their retirement money to pay for one big party. They said they won't pay one cent for their son because the groom's parents don't have to pay for weddings.

I remember being invited to assist with a few things when they were getting ready for the big expensive wedding. I said I can do some of these services for them myself because I actually have the skill set to do them and I would charge only a fraction of the fee. They laughed it off and said they want the most expensive service because this is the most important day of their daughter's life. I still have the wedding invitation they sent me. Since I was privy to the spending I know it cost them a little over $150 for that one invite card they sent to me.

I think I know what side income hobby I'm going to take up when and if I get to retire early. Just about anything related to weddings pays a fortune.

okits

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Re: marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the wedding
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2015, 01:36:46 PM »
I agree that it comes down to expectations and affordability.  If you're more excited about the wedding than the marriage you probably shouldn't do it. If the costs put you under financial stress you're spending too much.  Otherwise, I am fine with people putting however much they want into their weddings.

FatCat - now you have me imagining what wedding side hustle I could do!

ender

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Re: marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the wedding
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2015, 01:48:44 PM »
Spending $30,000+ on a wedding tells you a lot about the character of the people getting married.  They are selfish and materialistic people who care more about what other people think of them than the actual marriage and that's why their marriages fail.

I don't think this is always true.

Some people want to have a big celebration/party and have their friends involved. A big party of 100+ people costs a lot of money if it's remotely fancy.

Random Internet Stranger

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Re: marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the wedding
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2015, 04:35:41 PM »
Ours will be lasting a long time then! We spent hardly anything on ours...I think for all 3 of them it was less than 10k in total.

1) Courthouse

2) Marriage in Vegas so my mom would stop bringing up she wasn't there for the 1st one. Rented the dress, and everything else except dinner was in a package deal.

3) Flew back to UK to visit his family, and HIS mum started bringing up the fact she missed our wedding because she couldn't travel, so we did a small ceremony there as well. Just a small one, renewing vows but she was happy.

PatStab

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Re: marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the wedding
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2015, 11:27:20 PM »
Married in 1968, spent $125 for dress and wedding, can't remember the price of engagement ring.  Was half carat and hubby bought it discounted as his dad had a resale card where we could buy and did. 

So married 47 years so far.

NICE!

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Re: marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the wedding
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2015, 04:32:47 AM »
Her ring was a family heirloom and mine was $600. The wedding was definitely more expensive - both sets of parents kicked in about $5k and we paid ~$5k out of our own pockets. This was too pricey but we decided to do it relatively short notice and decided to help some people out in getting there. No regrets and I think we're still probably better than many of our cohorts.

libertarian4321

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Re: marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the wedding
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2015, 05:44:39 AM »
We spent $0 on our wedding.  We chose the long term "shack up" which, I guess, eventually made us common law married.  We decided to take the money we might have spent on a wedding an invest it in a good mutual fund instead.

21+ years and still doing fine.  I'm guessing that's a bit longer than the average wedding marriage lasts?

TabbyCat

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Re: marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the wedding
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2015, 12:39:11 PM »
Ours was $3,600 including rings and all. That included 40 people, fantastic food, an amazing photographer, my first choice dress and an amazing waterfront (in a park) building with heating, lights, a beach view and tables and chairs. It was completely worth it.

grantmeaname

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Re: marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the wedding
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2015, 12:48:06 PM »
My wedding will probably come in a little over $1000 all told but that includes 16 gallons of homemade booze and enough guests to consume it all.

TheFrugalFox

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Re: marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the wedding
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2015, 01:35:32 PM »
Also had a cheapo wedding - we got married a bit quicker than we probably would have had as my wife need to get a "leave to remain" stamp in her passport. Was still memorable and had a cheap honey moon in Spain. Still happily married 13 years later. I doubt it's a hard and fast rule - but you do come across couple that just try too hard to be that "couple to beat" - often starting with an expensive wedding and just keeps on going. Good luck to them - seems to often lead to unhappy relationships.

Cathy

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Re: marriage duration is inversely associated with spending on the wedding
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2015, 02:04:29 PM »
We spent $0 on our wedding.  We chose the long term "shack up" which, I guess, eventually made us common law married.  ...

I wrote an essay about common law marriage in another post. You presumably already know the law on the topic, but your post is a good jumping off point to follow up on one aspect of my essay.

In my essay, I mentioned how -- unlike Canada and most other countries -- the USA has a history of allowing marriage without any formalities, commonly referred to "common law marriage". Most states have abolished common law marriage by statute, but Texas (where you've mentioned you live, and presumably where the marriage was contracted) is one of the states that has retained the concept. However, Texas has actually codified "marriage without formalities" in statute in Texas Family Code §§ 2.401-2.405, which may now be the sole legal basis for such marriage in Texas.

The Texas statutory scheme provides that in any proceeding (judicial, administrative, or anything else), "the marriage of a man and woman" may be proved by
  • a declaration of informal marriage provided to the county clerk as described in § 2.402; or
  • evidence that the parties:
    • agreed to be married, and then
    • lived together in Texas as husband and wife after the agreement to be married, and then
    • represented to others that they were married.

The statute goes on to say that in the second kind of informal marriage (proved by the evidence mentioned above), if no proceeding has yet occurred by the time the parties have been separated for two years (such as a divorce proceeding), then it is presumed that the parties were never married, but that that presumption can be rebutted by evidence to the contrary.

The upshot of the above is the following: Under Texas law, no period of time living together can ever by itself create a marriage. That is only one of the three requirements. The period of living together needs to have been predated by an agreement to be married, and needs to have been followed by representation to others that you are married.

In Revenue Ruling 2013-17, the IRS reiterated what it describes as a position that it has held for 50 years, namely that a marriage without formalities under state law constitutes a marriage for federal tax purposes. That means it is important to be aware of whether or not you are actually in a legally valid common law marriage (or marriage without formalities), because if you are, you cannot file your federal taxes as single person; you have to use one of the statuses available to married persons. This IRS position interacts in an interesting way with Texas law because under Texas law, your marital status is not technically determined until it becomes relevant in a "proceeding".