Marijuana use - Give your input

[Wiggle]

Just wanted to see what others felt like regarding the use of of marijuana in general.  I realize this topic may be a bit controversial for some people.

Several months ago I bought a da buddah vaporizer and feel like it was a very sensible purchase.  For me, the biggest disadvantages of pot use were cost and the inhalation of smoke.  The vaporizer significantly improves the efficiency, I can get a very good effect off less than a quarter of a gram.  Additionally, as long as your vaporizer is working correctly there is a very significant increase in safety IMO, to the point that I would no longer consider it even compared to the risks of even moderate alcohol use.  I tend to vaporize about twice a week on average.

I do also feel that pot use can be a positive influence for many people.  I do acknowledge that it is possible to abuse but for my life it has only been positive.  I am more proactive, less lazy and more able to consider the feelings of others and appreciate the nuances of life.  It seems to allow myself to see everyday problems from a new different perceptive and to align my priorities.

I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of others as to whether this can be used moderately and in a positive (and financially friendly) fashion in their experiences.

[lifejoy]

I think mr money mustache has a post about dependency on drugs and alcohol. I see it as a money drain :/ and something that takes away from the authenticity of life, good or bad. Then again... I'm closer to straightedge than most people, so that's where I'm coming from :) Good job on getting a vaporizer! MUCH better for your lungs!! In the end, health spending equals long term savings :)


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[Nords]

I'm agnostic on the legal & ethical issues, but at this point in my life I'm loathe to risk any further brain damage...

[thepokercab]

I think, like anything, its about moderation.  Some folks might enjoy beer or wine, or even certain foods, but those tastes can also become quite expensive (and un-healthy) if not enjoyed in moderation. 

In terms of the drug itself, the laws against it are absolutely ridiculous, IMO.  I mean, Americans spend gazillions of dollars on every type of drug under the sun, whether its alcohol or other pharmaceuticals.   Apparently, the only real drug standard we have is if your drug of choice can afford enough lobbyists, then your drug is a-ok.   

[Erica/NWEdible]

Me? I like booze, I know booze, booze and I have a nice reliable working relationship. Can't stand pot personally - ugh, that smell - but voted for legalization here in Washington and think the criminalization of personal use marijuana mostly hurts decent people and helps bad ones. Your vaporizer thing sounds way more sophisticated than the pipes my coworkers back in my cooking days used to carve from carrots and potatoes!

[EricL]

I'm not a fan.  Marijuana can impair motivation, judgement, and act as a gateway drug for certain personality types.  But I agree laws against it are too stringent and counterproductive.  It seems it can have medical applications so I can get on board with that.

[YK-Phil]

I never used pot or other recreational drugs, but my four kids are all potheads. I personally don't like the idea of using recreational drugs, but I don't have any problem with it, as long as it it used in moderation. Coincidentally, or not, none of my children is engaged in anything "normal" folks would call a career, but I am pretty sure they are all living more interesting lives than most of their friends who became accountants or lawyers...

[Wiggle]

Thanks everyone for their input so far.  I can't deny that there are some people who abuse the drug and are not on a positive life course.  I can tell you that personally I am an electrical engineer and I have felt no reduction in my ability to analyze complex problems and perform my job.  If anything it has somewhat improved thanks to the lower stress and new perspective I have discovered.  Again, I am not trying to glamorize this but rather am speaking only to my own personal experience.

[Wiggle]

Me? I like booze, I know booze, booze and I have a nice reliable working relationship. Can't stand pot personally - ugh, that smell - but voted for legalization here in Washington and think the criminalization of personal use marijuana mostly hurts decent people and helps bad ones. Your vaporizer thing sounds way more sophisticated than the pipes my coworkers back in my cooking days used to carve from carrots and potatoes!

Thanks for your reply.  As a homebrewer I certainly have nothing against alcohol but I feel like pot provides a more introspective experience.  Alcohol is great and makes you very social, but at the same time I feel like it makes you physically sloppy and inhibits deep thought in a way that pot instead enchances.  I can't speak to everyone of course but my individual physiology seems to benefit from it.  One thing to note is that when vaporizing there is very little smell.  It is a much more pleasant way to use pot.  Before the vaporizer I was very selective about how I used pot because I don't feel that it is fair to intrude on other people with a strong smell.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Me? I like booze, I know booze, booze and I have a nice reliable working relationship. Can't stand pot personally - ugh, that smell - but voted for legalization here in Washington and think the criminalization of personal use marijuana mostly hurts decent people and helps bad ones. Your vaporizer thing sounds way more sophisticated than the pipes my coworkers back in my cooking days used to carve from carrots and potatoes!

Thanks for your reply.  As a homebrewer I certainly have nothing against alcohol but I feel like pot provides a more introspective experience.  Alcohol is great and makes you very social, but at the same time I feel like it makes you physically sloppy and inhibits deep thought in a way that pot instead enchances.  I can't speak to everyone of course but my individual physiology seems to benefit from it.  One thing to note is that when vaporizing there is very little smell.  It is a much more pleasant way to use pot.  Before the vaporizer I was very selective about how I used pot because I don't feel that it is fair to intrude on other people with a strong smell.

Sorry, but I'll be very aware of the difference b/w pot and booze.  People make mistakes with alcohol, for sure, but pot is very acute.  It's easy to have sex with unsuspecting victims when pot is involved, and I will advise both my son and daughter about how much more powerful it is as an intoxicant.

[Wiggle]

Sorry, but I'll be very aware of the difference b/w pot and booze.  People make mistakes with alcohol, for sure, but pot is very acute.  It's easy to have sex with unsuspecting victims when pot is involved, and I will advise both my son and daughter about how much more powerful it is as an intoxicant.

I respect your opinion but in my experience with both of these drugs I can tell you that alcohol is much more powerful at removing inhibition and critical thought from a user.  Marijuana, in my experience, if anything enhances a persons response to not intruding on people especially emotionally and physically.  I can't speak to everyone of course, this is just my own observation.

[surfhb]

It always was a demotivater for me.     However, I use to design DVD and Blu Ray menus and did my best work while high.   Check out the menus for the first Borat film....I came up with that idea when I was high as a kite.... It was a hit with the design team :).  Back pat! 

I have a friend who lifts weight and can't be in a gym unless he's stoned.   He's ripped

[Sofa King]

This whole drug testing-guilty until proven innocent mind set corporate America has is ridicules.  You cant smoke a joint on your own time even once a month but if your a raging alcoholic then come on it that's ok!!!  Also these piss tests really are for just weed. Just about any other "drug" will leave your system within days yet weed can stay for months in some.  Will be interesting as Marijuana become at least medically legal in most states how employers will handle it. There will be lawsuits for turning down people for a job when they are qualified but disqualified only because of this. I understand some jobs testing is necessary but for so many jobs its just a invasion of privacy.  Funny how the federal government says it is still illegal yet the IRS has set up guidelines on how businesses in Colorado will pay taxes on $$$$ they made from selling weed.     

[Wiggle]

It always was a demotivater for me.     However, I use to design DVD and Blu Ray menus and did my best work while high.   Check out the menus for the first Borat film....I came up with that idea high when I was high as a kite.... It was a hit with the design team :).  Back pat! 

I have a friend who lifts weight and can't be in a gym unless he's stoned.   He's ripped

It's interesting you bring up weight lifting.  I have tried doing cardio while under the influence of pot (my road bike on my bike trainer in this case, didn't want to be operating a vehicle under the influence) and didn't partcularly like the experience.  Felt like I was getting too much input and attention to small feelings that normally I could overlook.  I could see the benefit while lifting though.  I am a pretty dedicated lifter but have never tried it while stoned. 

[surfhb]

Me? I like booze, I know booze, booze and I have a nice reliable working relationship. Can't stand pot personally - ugh, that smell - but voted for legalization here in Washington and think the criminalization of personal use marijuana mostly hurts decent people and helps bad ones. Your vaporizer thing sounds way more sophisticated than the pipes my coworkers back in my cooking days used to carve from carrots and potatoes!

Thanks for your reply.  As a homebrewer I certainly have nothing against alcohol but I feel like pot provides a more introspective experience.  Alcohol is great and makes you very social, but at the same time I feel like it makes you physically sloppy and inhibits deep thought in a way that pot instead enchances.  I can't speak to everyone of course but my individual physiology seems to benefit from it.  One thing to note is that when vaporizing there is very little smell.  It is a much more pleasant way to use pot.  Before the vaporizer I was very selective about how I used pot because I don't feel that it is fair to intrude on other people with a strong smell.

Sorry, but I'll be very aware of the difference b/w pot and booze.  People make mistakes with alcohol, for sure, but pot is very acute.  It's easy to have sex with unsuspecting victims when pot is involved, and I will advise both my son and daughter about how much more powerful it is as an intoxicant.

Easy to have sex?  Victims?  Huh?!   Lol

I'll also say that alcohol is on par with drugs like speed, heroin and pcp when it comes to intoxicants.   I've pretty much tried them all and consider weed fairly benign.   That's just my opinion

[Wiggle]

Easy to have sex?  Victims?  Huh?!   Lol

Yes I agree.  I do realize there are some negative things associated with excessive marijuana usage but aggressively forcing yourself on others is certainly not one of them from what I have seen from anyone.  Pot certainly can make sex more enjoyable but has never made me feel more aggressive or forceful.  If anything it makes you more aware to the emotional state of other people. Perhaps EscapeVelocity is referring to a combination of pot and alcohol which can have effects which vary quite a bit.

[Khan]

I've never tried pot, but I'm fully for the legalization of it as it's a rather benign substance and IMO the cost of the drug war outweighs (any) sociological benefit(and I'm not just talking about the monetary cost, but the human cost).

As far as the actual drug, I plan on trying it, likely when I make some stop over in Colorado, but like someone else said, drugs are a costly habit. And I'm also too lazy to -take- drugs.(About once a month I look up at my liquor cabinet and go "Oh right! Alcohol exists!" and then I drink.)

[surfhb]

My friends wife and is in constant pain from a very bad form of arthritis throughout her body.   She's also a Christian and refuses to try weed on my recommendations.   Meanwhile she pops 5-7 vicodins a day.   Kinda sad really

[Wiggle]

I've never tried pot, but I'm fully for the legalization of it as it's a rather benign substance and IMO the cost of the drug war outweighs (any) sociological benefit(and I'm not just talking about the monetary cost, but the human cost).

As far as the actual drug, I plan on trying it, likely when I make some stop over in Colorado, but like someone else said, drugs are a costly habit. And I'm also too lazy to -take- drugs.(About once a month I look up at my liquor cabinet and go "Oh right! Alcohol exists!" and then I drink.)

Thanks for your input.  I can tell you that personally I was against it for the longest time and didn't try it til the age of 26.  I do truly believe that pot shouldn't be used while the brain is still in major development, nor should alcohol.  But I was rather surprised that many of the myths behind pot users seemed quite misinformed once I had actually tried it.

[Nords]

This whole drug testing-guilty until proven innocent mind set corporate America has is ridicules.  You cant smoke a joint on your own time even once a month but if your a raging alcoholic then come on it that's ok!!!  Also these piss tests really are for just weed. Just about any other "drug" will leave your system within days yet weed can stay for months in some.  Will be interesting as Marijuana become at least medically legal in most states how employers will handle it. There will be lawsuits for turning down people for a job when they are qualified but disqualified only because of this. I understand some jobs testing is necessary but for so many jobs its just a invasion of privacy.  Funny how the federal government says it is still illegal yet the IRS has set up guidelines on how businesses in Colorado will pay taxes on $$$$ they made from selling weed.   

The military has quite an education program on their hands in states where marijuana is now legal.  It's all too easy for a servicemember to imbibe (accidentally or on purpose) and the urinalysis results will kill their career.  The Navy Drug Lab (yes, that's its name) can distinguish between "second-hand smoke" or "didn't inhale" and "participant", but that's not much help if it's in the brownies.

Ironically there's far more outrage (at least in the submarine force) over initiatives like permanently extinguishing the smoking lamp on submarines and using breathalyzers on the quarterdeck.  A recent proposal to halt tobacco sales in the exchanges (cigarettes and chew) was quickly shouted down by servicemembers e-mailing Congress.  (I'm sure the tobacco lobby was "helping" too.)  It's not clear whether the rest of the Navy will ever be able to go smoke-free onboard ships, and I'm sure the Army is nervously watching the Navy in hopes that the whole thing fizzles out before they have to join the cause.

When I graduated from nuclear power training in late 1983 and reported to Submarine School, our entire class contributed to urinalysis.  This was widely publicized at our nuclear power command so there was no surprise.  Despite that, one of the ensigns was picked up for cocaine even though he claimed 96 hours between checking out of the nuclear command and reporting to Sub School.  He was thrown out of the submarine force (just as soon as he finished his 60 days of restriction) but sadly was allowed to remain on active duty in some other community.  (He would have separated at the end of his obligation.)  That was in the prehistoric days of the "Not In My Navy" campaign, and today he would have been summarily discharged.

[Khan]

Nords, the fallout of the smoking lamp extinguishing wasn't that bad. There was plentiful nicotine gum, and everyone was still doing ****ing disgusting dip.

I wonder though how E-cigs are taking off in the sub force though.

[surfhb]

Interesting!   I'm shocked they allowed smoking on board submarines

[Datastache]

I'm pretty much fine with it being legal, as long as I don't have to smell it. But for myself, I've never touched the stuff and never intend to. I consider my brain my most prized possession and by nature, I'm hesitant to chemically tinker with it. Not a big fan of the culture that tends to be associated with marijuana use, either.

And of course, my Mustachian side delights in any opportunity to not buy something! =D

[Wiggle]

Not a big fan of the culture that tends to be associated with marijuana use, either.

I agree.  I am a fan of pot but do not enjoy the whole "420" crowd.  It seems to emphasize the negative aspects of the drug much more than the positive ones.

[Nords]

Interesting!   I'm shocked they allow smoking on board submarines

You could see it in the filters of electronic equipment, and there were always rumors of it showing up in the run hours of the CO2 scrubbers and the CO-H2 burners, but it took a long time for the research facilities to nail down the numbers.  I think it only gained traction when the no-smoking movement spread nationwide and the 1990s drawdown meant that there was less maintenance money.

Humans breathe on a partial pressure of O2 in the atmosphere, and it's not very dependent on total pressure.  However fire burns on a percentage of O2 in the atmosphere, so it depends on both pO2 and the total pressure.  When I was standing OOD watches (and, among other things, in charge of atmosphere specs) I'd try to keep pressure in the boat at the maximum I could get away with (at least 800 torr, maybe even 875 before complaints started rolling in) and O2 at the low end of the spec (110 torr).  Cigarette lighters and matches would work, but cigarettes wouldn't stay lit unless they were constantly sucking.

Nords, the fallout of the smoking lamp extinguishing wasn't that bad. There was plentiful nicotine gum, and everyone was still doing ****ing disgusting dip.
I wonder though how E-cigs are taking off in the sub force though.

Last I heard, e-cigarettes were CO's policy.  You could still enjoy a few wicked tricks on the vaper's nicotine reservoirs by messing with pressure in the boat.   

I'm sure that chewing tobacco is still in use (whether it's allowed or not) and nicotine gum is a staple.

When the Navy was weaning the submariners off tobacco they offered extensive smoking-cessation programs.  One of them involved large doses of Zoloft, which in the 1990s was apparently prescribed for nicotine withdrawal symptoms.  Suddenly we had all of these cheerful, happy submariners showing up at work... and that's when the medical community realized that Zoloft was a pretty potent anti-depressant.  I personally knew three guys who realized that they'd been chemically deficient and clinically depressed for most of their lives.  They said it was just like the commercials where the clouds dissipated and the sun came shining through.

[totoro]

I'm not a fan. I hate the smell.  I don't care if other people do smoke it but most of my friends don't.  I was at a Paul McCartney concert recently.  It was a sea of mostly grey.  The elderly gentleman and his two geriatric maidens lit up next to us.  They were having a very good time until they got kicked out by the manager who was half their age!  One of them needed assistance up the steps.  It was a weird moment.

[Latwell]

I'm not a fan of pot. I don't like the stereotypes that are associated with it. I feel the same way about pot as I do alcohol.

For those who don't like the smell, vaporizers eliminate that issue. My SO doesn't like drinking, but does enjoy pot. I hate hate hate the smell of pot and I hate the smell of inscents because I associate them with pot. Life has been good since he got the vaporizer. He doesn't have to listen to me nag about the smell anymore and I don't have to smell it or hear the annoying lighter flicking noise.

[pdxvandal]

Pot's not a big deal in Portland, Oregon (shocker). You can pretty much smoke it in public here without drawing the stink eye of strangers or even cops. I smoked it far more in my 20s/early 30s. Since I've had a kid, far, far less (maybe once per month). My neighbor is an ex-Marine and smokes it daily, as does his wife. Another friend of mine grows medicinally for several people and also smokes it or eats it (brownies). He doesn't drink.

I like the effect, and there are many varieties than can make you energetic (or not) ... just don't want to be stoned around my 4-year-old. I like to drink, but I'd say it's much harder on the body than marijuana.

For those who say it's a "gateway drug" it's a bunk argument borne out of the War on Drugs propaganda. Those doing pot who eventually dabble in heroine, cocaine, etc., would have done that anyway. The vast majority of pot users I know have never tried any hard drugs, outside of maybe magic mushrooms (if you call that hard). Overall, folks have far more personal and health issues with alcohol than marijuana.

Like anything, do it in moderation.

[rocketpj]

I grew up in a small town in Alberta, where there was never a night in the local nightclub that didn't involve breaking glass and some kind of violence.  This is the brain of many young people on alcohol.

2 years later I lived for a couple of months in Amsterdam, and spent every day and night out smoking pot and having a great time.  I never once saw a single person commit any act of violence.  I saw many people staring dazed at their tables, or eating excessive shawarmas, but I saw not one single person hit another.  This is the brain of many young people smoking pot.

That was a long time ago, and I somehow completely lost interest in pot about 15 years ago.  But I could care less if other people choose to smoke it.  Some of my most creative and successful friends are chronic pot smokers, and some of the least interesting people I know are very righteous about not touching such stuff. 

But hey, I'm a social (but definitely not economic) libertarian - if you are doing something that harms nobody but yourself, then go right ahead.  Laws that impede such activities are unjust and the vestige of the church law feudal system bullshit our great great grandparents had to put up with (where our 'betters' knew what was good for us).

[parsimonious]

Marijuana is actually why I kicked up my savings rate from okay to badass! I used (mostly in edible form) marijuana in high school, college and professional school. And yes, I graduated with a high GPA with a doctorate so it didn't melt my brain. After graduating and getting "real" job I changed crowds and 1. no longer had access to pot and 2. had that fear in the back of my mind that if I got caught with anything illegal I would jeopardize my job and my license.
But then last year Colorado and Washington legalized it and I thought, holy crap! I would love to use pot in the privacy of my own home, responsibly and in moderation without getting arrested. I'm too lazy to get licensed in another state, so I said screw it, I'll save enough money to retire in a tiny home and grow pot in my backyard and maybe beat on some bongos.
I don't think marijuana is totally innocuous (I do not recommend smoking it), but working night shift on the weekends in a trauma hospital I am completely convinced it is way safer than alcohol. 

[ChrisLansing]

My input.   Hemp makes some great rope, and perhaps some other great products and we ought to be able to grow it here.   For those with a legitimate medical need/benefit I can't see why they should be denied.   Morphine also has medicinal uses but it doesn't follow that it should be legalized for recreational use. 

I "came of age" in the '70s and I can tell you that pot isn't going to do you one damn bit of good (again allowing for medicinal use)    It doesn't give you any insight that you couldn't have achieved anyway.   If you think it does then you may as well try LSD, coke/crack, H, etc to see what "mind expanding" experiences those drugs can offer (none IMO).   

The argument about alcohol vs pot misses the point - they're both bad for you.   For historical reasons we have settled on alcohol being legal (on a county by county basis)  I don't see that as a justification for allowing other drugs to be legal.   But then, I'm not a libertarian, I'm a grown-up.   I realize there is no such thing as not hurting anyone else.     I also realize it's not ok for people to hurt themselves.     

That said, you are free to pickle your liver with a 5th of Gin every night so I guess you may as well be able to sit on your couch and get stoned.    I don't think either activity is particularly life enhancing.   

I am being just slightly hypocritical, because I do enjoy a good micro-brew now and then.   But usually I just have one (about once a month) and two is my absolute limit per day.   I will not drive if I've had two.    I never have a 3rd.   

IMO pot is a gateway drug simply because it is illegal and therefore you have to deal with a "source" who has an interest in getting you to try other things for a bigger "kick".   If you can grow it in your backyard there is little incentive to try harder drugs.   So legalization could potentially be a benefit in that regard.

Bottom line for me is this - hemp should be grown for both it's industrial and medicinal benefits.   We shouldn't encourage people to get stoned because that's not good for people.   That we allow people to get drunk doesn't strike me as a very compelling argument for letting people get stoned.   

Finally, the war on drugs has cost us too much money, police time, jail time, etc.   Legalizing pot, w/o necessarily opening the door to other drugs (again I'm not a libertarian) would save our society a lot of time, money, and needless incarceration  of people who are little or no danger to society.   

[surfhb]

" Put a group of guys together with booze and they'll  start a fight.   Put them together with weed and they'll start a band "

[AustralianMustachio]

Thanks for your input.  I can tell you that personally I was against it for the longest time and didn't try it til the age of 26. 

This might be why you're having a more positive experience from it. I remember reading a scientific american study titled "THC kills developing neurons, but preserves existing ones"

That's my take on it. It should be legal, and people should have access to it. But it should be kept out of the diet of teenagers and their developing brains (as much as possible).

Weed is mostly demotivating for me the next day, when I've smoked it. I don't smoke it regularly. However it's no more demotivating than alcohol, and much kinder to my body. And just a few times, I've had some really positive shifts in mindset and ways of seeing the world, that have stayed with me long afterwards. I remember having some great ideas come to me, some of which I followed through with and had a big effect on my life.

Mostly however, it was terrible for my memory! But I usually did combine it with beers.

[Hedge_87]

If it was legalized nation wide tomorrow I still probably wouldn't do it. I just never like how it made me feel. I much rather prefer some of my homebrew. I don't really have a problem with it being legalized though. If for anything so I don't have to hear the pro legalization people (my father in-law) anymore lol.I really don't like the smell of it though. I don't like not being able to go to concerts because I don't want to have to wade through the cloud of smoke, and then having to worry about going to work and getting pulled for a random UA. I've often wondered how it would shake out if you went to Colorado,  smoked some weed (legally), went home and failed a drug test at work what would happen.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Sorry, but I'll be very aware of the difference b/w pot and booze.  People make mistakes with alcohol, for sure, but pot is very acute.  It's easy to have sex with unsuspecting victims when pot is involved, and I will advise both my son and daughter about how much more powerful it is as an intoxicant.

I respect your opinion but in my experience with both of these drugs I can tell you that alcohol is much more powerful at removing inhibition and critical thought from a user.  Marijuana, in my experience, if anything enhances a persons response to not intruding on people especially emotionally and physically.  I can't speak to everyone of course, this is just my own observation.

Thanks for respecting an opinion that I guess not everyone shares.  I grew up having a glass of wine or a beer with dinner or after mowing the lawn, so I knew my limits.  I tried pot once and completely passed out, luckily I was with friends.  That's where I was coming from.  It seems more normal to introduce your kids to alcohol before they go to college, but I don't see lighting up a joint or cigarette being in our future.  Maybe if the US gets so accepting that it's everywhere I'll have to tho.

[totoro]

I have to qualify that my statement that I don't care if others do it.  I don't care if strangers do it. I don't want to live with someone who uses marijuana or smokes tobacco.  The smell and health issues just seem like unnecessary negatives for everyone's quality of life.   

[Paul der Krake]

Having to interact with a kind of people I would rather avoid altogether in order to procure weed is the main reason why I do not indulge. Remove those barriers (by letting me grow it or buy it in a store) and I could totally see myself doing it on a regular basis.

Like Datastache and Wiggle said, the louder part of the pot crowd does a really bad job at projecting a good image. Enthusiasts with their shit together shy away from joining the cause because of that.

[golden1]

Straightedge - haven't heard that term in awhile....that describes me pretty well.

I probably shouldn't comment since I have been an abstainer from smoking, alcohol, and any other legal or illegal recreational drugs (caffeine is my exception) for all my 41 years of life.  My parents were both alcoholics and 2-3 pack a day smokers.  My dad died an alcoholic and my mom lost her teeth at age 65, partly from all the smoking.  I've seen more of the down sides than most people so that colors my views.

I have a hard time understanding why we need another legal drug when we can't properly deal with the problems that are caused by the ones we made legal.  The cynical part of me thinks it is just another way to keep the masses distracted (breads and circuses). 

Now I am not pushing for criminalization of alcohol, and pot shouldn't be criminalized either, but damn, people really like to gloss over how the freedom to take these drugs effects everyone else around them.  Someone else's "freedom" to sue an unnecessary substance leads to addiction which drags down everyone else who loves them.  I'd like to see a solid plan to address addiction more effectively before adding another potential vice to the world. 

The argument about alcohol vs pot misses the point - they're both bad for you.   For historical reasons we have settled on alcohol being legal (on a county by county basis)  I don't see that as a justification for allowing other drugs to be legal.   But then, I'm not a libertarian, I'm a grown-up.   I realize there is no such thing as not hurting anyone else.     I also realize it's not ok for people to hurt themselves.   

I get what you are trying to say here, I think.  My experiences with addiction are one of the reasons why I am not a libertarianism.  Maximizing your own personal freedom comes at a cost that is not always apparent.  It is never that simple.

[hybrid]

My son, already not the most motivated person, smoked a lot of pot in high school and barely graduated. A year later he isn't smoking it (and not by choice) and we can tell the difference. He is still pretty unmotivated, but his personality is much better and he's no longer sporting a belligerent / doesn't give a $%^& about anyone or anything attitude.

Proceed with extreme caution I say. The last two years in my house are a pretty good motivational story for staying far, far away from weed. I think of weed the same way I think of cycling without a helmet. Oh sure, a lot of people cycle without a helmet and never suffer for it. And some don't and get pretty f****d up as a result. My son was in the latter category.

As for the legality of it, make it legal I say. The war on drugs has been a total catastrophe. People are going to do what they are going to do (just like in the Prohibition era), and all we have managed is to provide organized crime a market that will always exist in one form or another.

[soccerluvof4]

When i tried it i too didn't like it and haven't since. I do think it should be legalized across the board and tax the shit out of it like tobacco, booze etc.. People are going to use it anyhow.  Whenever I think of people i know that used pot it just seems it makes people more lethargic and People I know that used it 30 years ago seemed to have grown away from it or still use it and live troubled lives.  Addiction to anything isn't good but for the casual user as long as I don't have to smell or breath the second hand smoke I don't have a problem with it. I teach, preach and only hope its not a life my kids live with any drug but who knows.

[johnintaiwan]

I think it is a great way to relax at the end of the day. i know a lot of professional business people who use it regularly, and you would never know. Just like with many substances, it should not be used if you are going to be driving or operating machinery. If someone wants to use it in private I am all for it. I think it is a perfectly reasonable budget item right there with alcohol and tobacco. Should probably make sure it isnt keeping you from growing a stache though

[Khan]

Someone else's "freedom" to sue an unnecessary substance leads to addiction which drags down everyone else who loves them. I'd like to see a solid plan to address addiction more effectively before adding another potential vice to the world. 

The argument about alcohol vs pot misses the point - they're both bad for you.   For historical reasons we have settled on alcohol being legal (on a county by county basis)  I don't see that as a justification for allowing other drugs to be legal.   But then, I'm not a libertarian, I'm a grown-up.   I realize there is no such thing as not hurting anyone else.     I also realize it's not ok for people to hurt themselves.   

I get what you are trying to say here, I think.  My experiences with addiction are one of the reasons why I am not a libertarianism.  Maximizing your own personal freedom comes at a cost that is not always apparent.  It is never that simple.

Having use be illegal does nothing to solve the issue of the sociological harm. Giving out free and clean needles, allowing drug testing kits in stores(which I believe Amsterdam does/did for harder drugs), and trying to foster a treatment... atmosphere instead of a criminal-izing atmosphere around substance use/abuse are all better options than jail time[not to mention the other social harms of a black market].(My apologies to anyone reading this, it's my bedtime).

I realize you were explicitly not supporting policy, but I believe personal libertarianism and socialist-medical and support structures are the answer to these problems. You can find a figure of 30% of cartel profits coming from marijuana around the internet, so IMO by having it be illegal(amongst other substances), we fund... Mexico being such a shithole and the ... 50k cartel deaths.

[frugalnacho]

I love it and use it daily.  There seems to be a lot of misinformation in this thread.

I don't think it causes demotivation.  Some people just aren't that motivated to begin with.  Some people smoke it and achieve great things.  It depends entirely on the person, and has nothing to do with the drug. 

It's not a gateway drug either.  Total bullshit.  It does make you engage with shady characters from time to time, but never once has a drug been pushed on me.  Never even a single time has anyone selling ever tried to get me to try another drug, or even mentioned they have other drugs available. 

[Cwadda]

I'll give my opinion as a college student. I've never smoked or consumed marijuana. I have plenty of friends that do. What I find is that it tends to make people lazy. This isn't to say that all people that do it are lazy - there are plenty of motivated, responsible friends I have that do it on a regular basis.

It isn't addictive, doesn't cause issues (although researchers are saying it's linked with schizophrenia?), and overall I know some people that use it and it really helps them sleep and stuff.

Don't see it as a bad thing at all. Can get pretty expensive though...although alcohol costs are kind of like that as well.

[Khan]

(although researchers are saying it's linked with schizophrenia?)

Correlation is not causation, self medication.

[limeandpepper]

To me it's not a big deal at all. Different substances affect different people in different ways. Take caffeine. Some people are wide awake for hours after drinking coffee. Others have no problems falling asleep right after a cup or two. Take wheat-based products like bread and pasta. I deal with them fine, someone who is gluten-intolerant can't handle them. Likewise, for marijuana, some people feel lazy and sleepy on it. Others are productive, even creative. And this from the same batch of product. The difference is only in how the individual processes it. Therefore I find that it is kind of useless to make blanket judgments. I can take it or leave it, but I know people who love it who have a great zest for life and are more hardworking than I am.

[totoro]

(although researchers are saying it's linked with schizophrenia?)

Correlation is not causation, self medication.

Maybe, but there is a fair bit of research out there on this that demonstrates the brain is affected by pot in ways similar to schizophrenia and does seem to increase risk for heavy users who star at a young age.  The current research seems to demonstrate that some folks are prone to this mental disorder but may never manifest without a trigger - there is a specific gene at play.  It is estimated that about 8% of schizophrenia would not manifest if the individual had not smoked pot, particularly when young. 

There is also research that shows that TCH can help with schizophrenia symptoms once they have manifested.

http://www.uniad.org.br/desenvolvimento/images/stories/arquivos/cannabis_association_psychosis.pdf

[sol]

I've often wondered how it would shake out if you went to Colorado,  smoked some weed (legally), went home and failed a drug test at work what would happen.

The consequences of failing a drug test for your employer do not change with the legality of marijuana use.  I live in legalized Washington and I'm still prohibited from smoking, because of my job.

Employers don't test you because they want to know if you're breaking the law.  They test you because they want to know if you're using drugs that might affect your performance or judgment.

[Cwadda]

(although researchers are saying it's linked with schizophrenia?)

Correlation is not causation, self medication.

Yeah, I have no idea if it's actually true. Just something I've heard. totoro seems to have more knowledge about that.

[soccerluvof4]

I've often wondered how it would shake out if you went to Colorado,  smoked some weed (legally), went home and failed a drug test at work what would happen.

The consequences of failing a drug test for your employer do not change with the legality of marijuana use.  I live in legalized Washington and I'm still prohibited from smoking, because of my job.

Employers don't test you because they want to know if you're breaking the law.  They test you because they want to know if you're using drugs that might affect your performance or judgment.

Totally!!!!