Author Topic: manufactured homes  (Read 24953 times)

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
manufactured homes
« on: May 11, 2014, 08:25:24 AM »
We currently live in a 2 story, beautifully renovated, 2100 sq ft farmhouse surrounded by 2 acres of fields.    The house is affordable (we have a decent path to FI even with it), I'm just considering if it's the most efficient use of our money/time.   It's too much space for the now 3 of us, the mowing is insane, and we're seriously thinking of down-sizing in the next 5 years or so.   We live in a pretty low COL area and there're several nice wooded areas that we're considering.

I think what would be perfect is a 1 story with about 1200 sq ft with an efficient layout.    I'd like to get something super inexpensive and then renovate it to have the exact features we value (DIYing a lot of it).    And in pondering options I'm asking myself if a manufactured home should really be off of the table?   I am particular about the look and feel of homes, so even if manufactured, it would not be in a park, but a couple acres of woods, would have to be in good condition, and we'd like to renovate it to be exactly what we want.   But, I just don't know what's possible with such homes and if it makes sense.

Does anyone have any experience or legit info about manufactured homes?   Can they be renovated?   Do newer ones have quality issues (eg, would one last our lifetimes?-I'm 33 yrs old)?   Do they make sense financially?

Since we live in a lower COL area, we can probably find a run-down smaller home for a decent price that we can then renovate to what we want, but I am just pondering whether or not to consider manufactured homes as well as something that might be a good/better option?   
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 08:28:41 AM by Emilyngh »

CopperTex

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 157
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Mandeville, LA
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2014, 06:14:25 PM »
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Manufactured homes plummet in value. Why in the world would you invest that kind of money on something that will be worth next to nothing in the no so distant future? Just think of what a 20-30 year old manufactured home would be worth today.

Thegoblinchief

  • Guest
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2014, 08:23:43 PM »
No experience with manufactured homes myself, but the hate for them is general enough that I'd stay away.

Jack

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4725
  • Location: Atlanta, GA
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2014, 09:04:11 PM »
Hold on there a second: there are two very different things people can be talking about when they say "manufactured homes."

One is the stereotypical single or double-wide trailer that gets towed to the site, has the wheels taken off, and sits there until it blows away in a tornado. That kind of home depreciates like a car and is a terrible idea.

The other type of mobile manufactured home, however, is a traditionally-constructed* home where walls or individual rooms are built in a factory (under controlled conditions, leading to higher quality than site-built homes) then trucked out to the site on several flatbeds and lifted onto a real concrete foundation by a crane. This kind of home is GOOD!

(* manufactured homes also include log homes, timber-frame homes, and other types of alternative construction)

Edit: I was just re-reading my post and wow that was a bad typo. I must have been tired last night...
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 05:44:06 PM by Jack »

wtjbatman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1301
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Missouri
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2014, 11:24:12 PM »
Hold on there a second: there are two very different things people can be talking about when they say "manufactured homes."

One is the stereotypical single or double-wide trailer that gets towed to the site, has the wheels taken off, and sits there until it blows away in a tornado. That kind of home depreciates like a car and is a terrible idea.

The other type of mobile home, however, is a traditionally-constructed* home where walls or individual rooms are built in a factory (under controlled conditions, leading to higher quality than site-built homes) then trucked out to the site on several flatbeds and lifted onto a real concrete foundation by a crane. This kind of home is GOOD!

(* manufactured homes also include log homes, timber-frame homes, and other types of alternative construction)

Oh we know, and no they're still not good*. Ugly, tacky, don't hold their value, and as soon as any person finds out where you live, their attitude changes.

*That is just my opinion... and likely the opinion of everyone who doesn't live in one of those mobile/manufactured homes.

Jamesqf

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4038
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2014, 12:23:18 AM »
Oh we know, and no they're still not good*. Ugly, tacky, don't hold their value, and as soon as any person finds out where you live, their attitude changes.

From the OP, it appears that she is planning to live in the house for the rest of her life (or at least looking at the possibility), so why would she care whether they hold their value or not?

As to ugly & tacky: no more so than stick-built houses.  And for people changing their attitudes if they find out you live in a manufactured house...  First, unless they're fairly knowledgeable about construction, and they delve into things like your crawlspace or attic, they aren't going to know.  Second, if they're that sort of person, do you even want to know them?

Quote
*That is just my opinion... and likely the opinion of everyone who doesn't live in one of those mobile/manufactured homes.

Perhaps things are different where you live, but hereabouts it's not at all uncommon to place a MH on land worth upwards of $250K/acre.  Several of my neighbors did this after a major wildfire a few years ago, and you wouldn't know them from a stick-built house of similar design.

wtjbatman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1301
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Missouri
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2014, 12:36:29 AM »
In my limited experience, it's not hard to tell a stick built from a factory built house.

And yes, clearly things are different where I live. No the vast majority of people here wouldn't put a MH on a 250k+ piece of land. But where I live isn't ravaged by wild fires either, so I can understand why people would do that there. But that's for a pretty specific reason.

PeteD01

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1381
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2014, 04:51:45 AM »
Manufactured home = mobile home, trailer
Modular home = put together from prefab boxes
"Prefabricated sections home" = not a defined term but refers to houses build from factory made sections, walls etc.

Modular homes have many practical advantages over site built homes.
"Prefabricated section homes" have many of the advantages of modular homes and are probably superior in most aspects to site built homes but lack the portability of modular homes.
Then there are log homes which are also a type of prefab but do not come in whole sections.

agent_clone

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 250
  • Location: Australia
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2014, 05:06:04 AM »
Hmm, I don't know the American market, but here in Australia the prebuilt/modular/prefab homes tend to cost the same, if not more than a house constructed somewhere if you are in a city.  However they are great for rural areas where it is difficult to get the appropriate tradespeople.  You can get cyclone (hurricane) rated buildings here, so I would assume that you can get tornado rated buildings in the US but you would need to let them know during the design phase.

In regards to looks/design etc, as a personal opinion homes like http://www.huf-haus.com/en/home.html seem to appear to be nice (not precicely my preferences but at least aesthetically pleasing), but homes like http://www.prebuilt.com.au/index.php are quite ugly.  It all depends on what you are looking for.

MayDay

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4953
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2014, 05:40:30 AM »
My aunt and uncle have a modular home in rural IA. They put it on their farm, so resale isn't a concern, they will stay until they die. It is a simple four bedroom ranch, bigger than what you are talking about as they have 3 kids.

It's very nice, has a basement, and you would never know it wasn't a traditionally built home. In their rural area they are very common for new builds as there aren't a ton of home construction companies around like in a city.

Zamboni

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3882
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2014, 06:09:34 AM »
I'd say it depends.

My brother lives in a modular home on about 10 acres of mostly woods in a rural area.  It was not new when they bought it; rather it was part of an estate of an older lady, so I'm not sure how old it is (maybe 40 years old?), but in the 20 years he's lived there it has gotten better, not worse.  It's a beautiful set up on a hillside that overlooks a giant valley from his back porch behind which they have a small lawn and garden.  He maintains it well and has done things over time like replace the siding by himself and put in commercial rated toilets.  Sometimes he moans about the quality of construction, but slowly he just redoes things the way he wants it.  Because he works in construction and knows everyone else in construction in the closest teeny town, this works well for him.

Where he lives this type of home is just considered to be a normal house.  Since you want land around you, I think you should consider these as possibilities.  Obviously you don't want  rusty trailer that needs to be towed away, but modular homes can be quite nice.

Also, regarding factory built, Toll Brothers has factory framing.  Because of this, the entire frame goes up in about 2 days.  Basically they pour the foundation, then pull up the walls and roof pieces and hammer them together.  These homes are not cheap:
http://www.tollbrothers.com/?cmpid=G2113&&utm_source=Google_PPC&gclid=CIia2u2rpr4CFYMSOgodPy4ATw

Jack

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4725
  • Location: Atlanta, GA
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2014, 06:34:22 AM »
You can get cyclone (hurricane) rated buildings here, so I would assume that you can get tornado rated buildings in the US but you would need to let them know during the design phase.

A relatively "mild" tornado has wind speeds equal to the strongest hurricane. You don't build an entire house to withstand one; you build a small concrete bunker within (or perhaps near) the house for the people to shelter in instead.

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2014, 07:21:56 AM »
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Manufactured homes plummet in value. Why in the world would you invest that kind of money on something that will be worth next to nothing in the no so distant future? Just think of what a 20-30 year old manufactured home would be worth today.

Do you have some facts that support this?   I ask b/c this too is my bias, but in looking into it, I'm not sure that it's true, or at least if one runs the full financials if they're really a bad deal.

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2014, 07:22:32 AM »
They are the homes that get demolished when tornadoes come. Do you live in an area that gets tornadoes?

No.

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2014, 07:24:11 AM »
No experience with manufactured homes myself, but the hate for them is general enough that I'd stay away.

But this is exactly what's causing me to take a second look.   There is strong bias against them, but I'm not sure if this bias is rooted in fact anymore or outdated impressions/assumptions.    Basically, anything that is universally dismissed with such strong feelings deserves a close look, IMHO.

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2014, 07:29:04 AM »

From the OP, it appears that she is planning to live in the house for the rest of her life (or at least looking at the possibility), so why would she care whether they hold their value or not?

As to ugly & tacky: no more so than stick-built houses.  And for people changing their attitudes if they find out you live in a manufactured house...  First, unless they're fairly knowledgeable about construction, and they delve into things like your crawlspace or attic, they aren't going to know.  Second, if they're that sort of person, do you even want to know them


Yes, I would hope to live there for the rest of my life.   But also, I could imagine a case where the numbers could work out as a good value even if the house depreciates (eg, if it depreciates at a rate less than I'd be paying in other expenses for a non-mobile home).

But yes, I can't figure out if people are being tongue-in-cheek about other people caring.   If they're serious, isn't this MMM?   Why would I take other people's baises into account into making one of the largest decisions of my life?   I'm not so insecure as to care if someone else is happy to consider me trailer trash.

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2014, 07:32:13 AM »
Hmm, I don't know the American market, but here in Australia the prebuilt/modular/prefab homes tend to cost the same, if not more than a house constructed somewhere if you are in a city.  However they are great for rural areas where it is difficult to get the appropriate tradespeople.  You can get cyclone (hurricane) rated buildings here, so I would assume that you can get tornado rated buildings in the US but you would need to let them know during the design phase.

In regards to looks/design etc, as a personal opinion homes like http://www.huf-haus.com/en/home.html seem to appear to be nice (not precicely my preferences but at least aesthetically pleasing), but homes like http://www.prebuilt.com.au/index.php are quite ugly.  It all depends on what you are looking for.

Yes, I looked into modular homes and it seems like they cost as mush as/more than a stick home bought old and renovated.   I'm really asking about mobile homes, but new a new one that we then renovate.

Erica/NWEdible

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 881
    • Northwest Edible Life - life on garden time
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2014, 07:36:29 AM »
These don't look particularly tacky to me. :) http://www.bluhomes.com/

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2014, 07:43:45 AM »
I'd say it depends.

My brother lives in a modular home on about 10 acres of mostly woods in a rural area.  It was not new when they bought it; rather it was part of an estate of an older lady, so I'm not sure how old it is (maybe 40 years old?), but in the 20 years he's lived there it has gotten better, not worse.  It's a beautiful set up on a hillside that overlooks a giant valley from his back porch behind which they have a small lawn and garden.  He maintains it well and has done things over time like replace the siding by himself and put in commercial rated toilets.  Sometimes he moans about the quality of construction, but slowly he just redoes things the way he wants it.  Because he works in construction and knows everyone else in construction in the closest teeny town, this works well for him.

Where he lives this type of home is just considered to be a normal house.  Since you want land around you, I think you should consider these as possibilities.  Obviously you don't want  rusty trailer that needs to be towed away, but modular homes can be quite nice.

Also, regarding factory built, Toll Brothers has factory framing.  Because of this, the entire frame goes up in about 2 days.  Basically they pour the foundation, then pull up the walls and roof pieces and hammer them together.  These homes are not cheap:
http://www.tollbrothers.com/?cmpid=G2113&&utm_source=Google_PPC&gclid=CIia2u2rpr4CFYMSOgodPy4ATw

Wow, those tollbrothers homes are nice, but not cheap!   

soccerluvof4

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7161
  • Location: Artic Midwest
  • Retired at 50
    • My Journal
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2014, 07:46:57 AM »
There is a whole lot of differences between manufarctured, model, pre-fab, stick built etc... homes. The terms can to many times overlap. In our area alot of homes in excess of well over a million dollars are custom built and the walls are shipped to Job sites. The biggest benefit because they are basically stick built in a plant is they just go up a lot faster. You can put up a 7200 square foot house ready to roof in 2 days. Having said that here is just one company that does them and trust me there are plenty but usually (not always) you pay a tad more for the convenience. One other drawback can be changes on the field can be more expensive. But most trusses and floor joists are pre-made so why would one think that the walls cant be? anyhow here is a link..One of many.

http://www.wausauhomes.com/photo-gallery 


Rural

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5051
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2014, 08:53:24 AM »
Hmm, I don't know the American market, but here in Australia the prebuilt/modular/prefab homes tend to cost the same, if not more than a house constructed somewhere if you are in a city.  However they are great for rural areas where it is difficult to get the appropriate tradespeople.  You can get cyclone (hurricane) rated buildings here, so I would assume that you can get tornado rated buildings in the US but you would need to let them know during the design phase.

In regards to looks/design etc, as a personal opinion homes like http://www.huf-haus.com/en/home.html seem to appear to be nice (not precicely my preferences but at least aesthetically pleasing), but homes like http://www.prebuilt.com.au/index.php are quite ugly.  It all depends on what you are looking for.

Yes, I looked into modular homes and it seems like they cost as mush as/more than a stick home bought old and renovated.   I'm really asking about mobile homes, but new a new one that we then renovate.


If you're looking at a mobile home, even the newer ones have problems with insulation and with pipes freezing. These problems are far less than they were in the past, but the pipes at least are in an open area under the mobile home. Skirting does not provide any insulation and while you can do some yourself, I'm not sure you can do as much as is possible in a house.


As far as insulation, well, they're built better than they used to be, but still there is only so much insulation that can go in thinner walls, and generally they still don't have much space between ceiling and roof. That means less insulation up there too. Building sturdier add to shipping weight, and there's just a limit to what is practical. You just have to expect heating and cooling costs to be high than in a house, and expect to pay for electric resistance pipe wrap for underneath when it gets really cold (or plan on replacing frozen pipes a lot, but see below about rot).


I would suggest that you go and look at some, stand in them, knock on the walls and get an idea of exactly what you're talking about. I've not been in a brand-new mobile home, but I've been in mobile homes of a variety of ages, the newest built in about 2002, and none of them feels like being in a house. The sensation is somewhere between a  house and a tent (leaning closer to "house" in the newer ones than the older), and the difference is sturdiness of construction. Feel isn't necessarily important, of course, but for me, the "feel" was a result of lightweight construction and interior walls that were only an inch and a half thick. Often, that feel was a result of feeling the wall move when you lean on it. That flex leads to wear over time; for example, closing the back door in the (much older) mobile home I lived in recently meant that that entire wall vibrated and moved visibly in the room with the door. It was quite simply wearing out, and since that wall supported the roof, that was a developing problem.


Before you decide to buy one, also look underneath. Another issue for us was that the long beams that supported the weight of the trailer on its metal ribs were rotting out. This meant that there was metal, and it was in place, and it was the bottom. All well and good. But above that, supposedly holding the thing up, were wooden beams that were rotted about halfway through. There was no way to get to those to replace them. We would've had to remove the trailer, put the beams back, and then rebuild a different trailer on top. This was at about 40 years, so you would have some time, but you just can't expect a mobile home to last a lifetime. That's not what they're designed for.

5inatrailer

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 54
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2014, 09:15:17 AM »
Hello, we live in a 1983 with addition.

You need to be aware of a few things.

Just moving to an acreage site, you need a fairly decent understanding of home maintenance- trouble with water, sewer are common (ie pump failing, septic hill construction, heating fuel, telephone and internet access  etc.)  They aren't crazy complex, you just need to be more aware.  There will be things you never thought of; for us it was the poor cell phone reception and no internet access, which has now been fixed.

 We bought our trailer for 20k after lowballing the owner from his 80k:)
Moving was ok, building a skirting wall was a huge pain- make sure your site is super level and compacted, and with piling in the middle for the trailer to be attached to (mortgage must)

As for the rest, it was no different than buying a house from 1983 that hadn't been updated. It had walls sheeted in drywall, double paned vinyl windows etc.  We just renovated one room at a time.

The majority of people in the country have mobile homes because it is cheaper and easier.  Country life is expensive.  There isn't any stigma,  if anything the fact you live on an acreage will supercede any negative connotations

Message me if you need more info..



Message me if you need more info.

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2014, 10:14:24 AM »
Hmm, I don't know the American market, but here in Australia the prebuilt/modular/prefab homes tend to cost the same, if not more than a house constructed somewhere if you are in a city.  However they are great for rural areas where it is difficult to get the appropriate tradespeople.  You can get cyclone (hurricane) rated buildings here, so I would assume that you can get tornado rated buildings in the US but you would need to let them know during the design phase.

In regards to looks/design etc, as a personal opinion homes like http://www.huf-haus.com/en/home.html seem to appear to be nice (not precicely my preferences but at least aesthetically pleasing), but homes like http://www.prebuilt.com.au/index.php are quite ugly.  It all depends on what you are looking for.

Yes, I looked into modular homes and it seems like they cost as mush as/more than a stick home bought old and renovated.   I'm really asking about mobile homes, but new a new one that we then renovate.


If you're looking at a mobile home, even the newer ones have problems with insulation and with pipes freezing. These problems are far less than they were in the past, but the pipes at least are in an open area under the mobile home. Skirting does not provide any insulation and while you can do some yourself, I'm not sure you can do as much as is possible in a house.


As far as insulation, well, they're built better than they used to be, but still there is only so much insulation that can go in thinner walls, and generally they still don't have much space between ceiling and roof. That means less insulation up there too. Building sturdier add to shipping weight, and there's just a limit to what is practical. You just have to expect heating and cooling costs to be high than in a house, and expect to pay for electric resistance pipe wrap for underneath when it gets really cold (or plan on replacing frozen pipes a lot, but see below about rot).


I would suggest that you go and look at some, stand in them, knock on the walls and get an idea of exactly what you're talking about. I've not been in a brand-new mobile home, but I've been in mobile homes of a variety of ages, the newest built in about 2002, and none of them feels like being in a house. The sensation is somewhere between a  house and a tent (leaning closer to "house" in the newer ones than the older), and the difference is sturdiness of construction. Feel isn't necessarily important, of course, but for me, the "feel" was a result of lightweight construction and interior walls that were only an inch and a half thick. Often, that feel was a result of feeling the wall move when you lean on it. That flex leads to wear over time; for example, closing the back door in the (much older) mobile home I lived in recently meant that that entire wall vibrated and moved visibly in the room with the door. It was quite simply wearing out, and since that wall supported the roof, that was a developing problem.


Before you decide to buy one, also look underneath. Another issue for us was that the long beams that supported the weight of the trailer on its metal ribs were rotting out. This meant that there was metal, and it was in place, and it was the bottom. All well and good. But above that, supposedly holding the thing up, were wooden beams that were rotted about halfway through. There was no way to get to those to replace them. We would've had to remove the trailer, put the beams back, and then rebuild a different trailer on top. This was at about 40 years, so you would have some time, but you just can't expect a mobile home to last a lifetime. That's not what they're designed for.

Thanks, Rural!   Exactly the kind of specific issues/things to consider that I was looking for!

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2014, 10:30:56 AM »
Hello, we live in a 1983 with addition.

You need to be aware of a few things.

Just moving to an acreage site, you need a fairly decent understanding of home maintenance- trouble with water, sewer are common (ie pump failing, septic hill construction, heating fuel, telephone and internet access  etc.)  They aren't crazy complex, you just need to be more aware.  There will be things you never thought of; for us it was the poor cell phone reception and no internet access, which has now been fixed.

 We bought our trailer for 20k after lowballing the owner from his 80k:)
Moving was ok, building a skirting wall was a huge pain- make sure your site is super level and compacted, and with piling in the middle for the trailer to be attached to (mortgage must)

As for the rest, it was no different than buying a house from 1983 that hadn't been updated. It had walls sheeted in drywall, double paned vinyl windows etc.  We just renovated one room at a time.

The majority of people in the country have mobile homes because it is cheaper and easier.  Country life is expensive.  There isn't any stigma,  if anything the fact you live on an acreage will supercede any negative connotations

Message me if you need more info..



Message me if you need more info.

Thanks so much!   We currently live in the country, so I'm familiar with some country related issues (have internet, but horrendous cell coverage on our property, we have septic, an old falling apart barn, etc).   This would be possibly a move to wooded vs field country.

It's still a few years away, but in just pondering options I was wondering if there was really a good reason to rule out mobile/manufactured homes.   So far, I haven't stumbled across any to definitely rule them out, but there do seem to be things to look out for; we'd have to obviously check the place out carefully (Rural's points about feel, insulation, etc) and do a full financial comparison of options.

But, wow, $20k!   That price just blows my mind!   Even if it depreciates to $0 over 40 years, even with costs for updates, I just have a hard time believing that that wouldn't beat a lot of other options financially (assuming one can fix it up to their comfort level/liking).   I mean the stigma that they have just leads me to believe that it's probably that much better of a deal (no ego inflation, if anything an ego discount).

What got me thinking about it was Jacob living in an RV.   I would like more room than that, and I don't need the added feature of being able to drive it around, but the efficiency of such small affordable spaces appeals to me.    If an RV is good enough for him, why isn't a good condition mobile home, renovated with all the luxuries/features we want, with a skirting and nice landscaping, sitting on a couple acres of beautiful wooded land, good enough for me?   This is, of course, assuming that financially it makes sense compared to a stick home over the long-term.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 10:33:55 AM by Emilyngh »

shadowmoss

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1601
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2014, 10:55:25 AM »
I grew up living in mobile homes in typical trailer parks.  I've owned both mobile homes and stick-built houses as well as modular homes (basically double-wides that look like a regular house).  I'm currently in a 1969 mobile home in a 55+ snowbird mobile home/rv park in Phoenix. 

I had a diffilcult time selling my last modular home in Nashville, TN even though the 3 ac. lot was beautiful.  The home I bought as a foreclosure wasn't in great shape, and I found I'm not as DIY as I thought I was.  It was a cheap(er) place to live, and I would have been happy there if I'd been able to stay in Nashville.  When I went to sell it, I know part of the issue was that it was modular.  It is more difficult to get a mortgage in Nashville on those now.  Not sure about other places.  Read:  it is pretty much impossible to get a mortgage on them in Nashville.  This is one reason they sell for so much less than a stick built.  The place prior to that was also a modular home way out in the country on 6 ac., a great lot.  Had a hard time selling it as well, same reasons, trouble getting a mortgage which got more difficult as time went on.

My current place is georgous on the inside, totally remodeled and has high-end cabnetry and flooring.  I paid $5.5K, basically put it on a credit card (shhhhh).  I don't own the lot, but this mobile home isn't going anywhere because it has a room permanently built on, along with a screened porch and a carport with utility shed built in.  When folks leave here, it is usually to assisted living/nursing home/funeral home.  They (or their estate) tend to just give the keys to the mobile home park and leave.  The park does renovations and sells the mobile homes cheap, as they want the guaranteed lot rent ($425/mo).  This is a cheap place to live that has a pool and other cool add-ons and I'll probably give them the keys when  I leave as well.  After 2 years I break even on living in an apartment, so I'm not too worried about equity.  Since it is Phoenix I don't have a lot of concerns about weather related issues.  It has a white roof and heat pump to deter the heat aspects.

Basically, if the weather is extreme it is more difficult to be comfortable and you will have many more maintenance issues in a mobile/modular home.  If you live where there isn't a lot of severe weather extremems, they can be great.  YMMV/this is MHO.

Simple Abundant Living

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 579
    • Simple Abundant Living
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2014, 11:35:53 AM »
We currently live in a 2 story, beautifully renovated, 2100 sq ft farmhouse surrounded by 2 acres of fields.    The house is affordable (we have a decent path to FI even with it), I'm just considering if it's the most efficient use of our money/time.   It's too much space for the now 3 of us, the mowing is insane, and we're seriously thinking of down-sizing in the next 5 years or so.

Your house/land seems lovely. If the mowing is too much, could you plant a landscape that doesn't need to be mowed?  Or get dairy goats?

As far as manufactured homes, it can be an option if construction would be difficult or if you need a cheap place to live and don't mind the resale value. IMO, most are low quality. Thin walls, cheap plumbing fixtures, etc.  and you can definitely spot them-even if you build a covered porch, etc.  I don't live in a tornado area, but that is a consideration in some places. Our first home was a trailer in a mobile home park. It was a great cheap option when we were broke college students.  We fixed it up and sold it for more than double our purchase price.  That became our first down payment on a "real" house. I don't have any regrets about starting our life like that.   

I've seen lots of posts on the forums about people who build their own "tiny" homes. I think it's an admirable goal to downsize if you use quality materials so they don't become disposable.

Jamesqf

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4038
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2014, 11:47:16 AM »
You can get cyclone (hurricane) rated buildings here, so I would assume that you can get tornado rated buildings in the US but you would need to let them know during the design phase.

Yeah, you CAN get tornado-rated buildings, as the USAF has sold off some of its old underground missle silos: http://www.hardenedstructures.com/bunkers-for-Sale.php

Argyle

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 904
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2014, 12:04:35 PM »
You may swear that you'll live there forever and never want to sell it, but plans do change.  If I had banked on what I swore was "forever" twenty years ago, my goose would be cooked.  So consider that someday, for a variety of reasons, you may want to move.  The manufactured home will be less saleable, and in some instances and conditions may be a liability.  That is, not only will you get less money for the property, but you'll have a hard time getting someone to take it on.  The pool of people who want to deal with hauling a delapidated manufactured home off a piece of property is much smaller than the general pool of buyers.  So if you buy a mobile home now, you'll be saving money in the short term, but potentially reducing your assets significantly in the longer term.

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2014, 01:46:34 PM »

Your house/land seems lovely. If the mowing is too much, could you plant a landscape that doesn't need to be mowed?  Or get dairy goats?


We are in the process of planting to reduce mowing, but it is a long process and seems to be barely making a dent.   The mowing is a PITA, but if all else were ideal, wouldn't be the killer issue.    Really, we have more house than we want, I want to live in the woods, I'd rather a more efficient use of space, and if we could save $50k or more by moving somewhere we'd like at least as much if not more, I just think it makes sense.

As far as manufactured homes, it can be an option if construction would be difficult or if you need a cheap place to live and don't mind the resale value. IMO, most are low quality. Thin walls, cheap plumbing fixtures, etc.  and you can definitely spot them-even if you build a covered porch, etc.  I don't live in a tornado area, but that is a consideration in some places. Our first home was a trailer in a mobile home park. It was a great cheap option when we were broke college students.  We fixed it up and sold it for more than double our purchase price.  That became our first down payment on a "real" house. I don't have any regrets about starting our life like that.   

I've seen lots of posts on the forums about people who build their own "tiny" homes. I think it's an admirable goal to downsize if you use quality materials so they don't become disposable.

I am concerned about the possibly "disposable" nature of mobile homes (if it's really true for newer ones).

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2014, 02:06:32 PM »
  So if you buy a mobile home now, you'll be saving money in the short term, but potentially reducing your assets significantly in the longer term.

Perhaps (at least reduced assets in the forms of housing and possibly ease of land resale).   Although considering average returns of the housing market vs other investments, one could be better off in the long-term by investing the guaranteed savings from living in a mobile home elsewhere (eg, index funds).   One would have to run their specific numbers (as I would before buying).   

tipster350

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 345
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2014, 03:10:56 PM »
I think the terminology being used is getting confusing. My understanding is that manufactured homes are mobile homes with lipstick. Modular homes are the same or better quality than stick built homes. Sections are created in a factory but the house is attached to a normal foundation and look like any other stick built house.

I understand the quality of manufactured homes has increased tremendously of late, but they are still way different than stick built houses as far as quality and resale are concerned. It is my understanding that modular homes are equivalent to stick built.

Manufactured homes info http://www.claytonhomes.com/
Info from a modular site: http://www.modulardirect.com/AboutOurHomes3.php

Someone with more knowledge please chime in.

PeteD01

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1381
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2014, 03:45:32 PM »
I think the terminology being used is getting confusing. My understanding is that manufactured homes are mobile homes with lipstick. Modular homes are the same or better quality than stick built homes. Sections are created in a factory but the house is attached to a normal foundation and look like any other stick built house.

I understand the quality of manufactured homes has increased tremendously of late, but they are still way different than stick built houses as far as quality and resale are concerned. It is my understanding that modular homes are equivalent to stick built.

Manufactured homes info http://www.claytonhomes.com/
Info from a modular site: http://www.modulardirect.com/AboutOurHomes3.php

Someone with more knowledge please chime in.

"Manufactured home" is the official term for what is otherwise known as a mobile home/trailer. Manufactured homes in the strict sense have to be built up on a trailer frame and do not have to comply with local building codes (not to be confused with zoning issues) but with some federal codes.
A double wide is just two manufactured homes put together - it doesn't make it into a modular home.
"Modular home" is also an official term and, as far as I know, modular homes have to comply with all applicable local codes. Modular homes in the strict/official sense are prefab boxes stuck together as desired.
There is no official term for houses factory produced and shipped in sections (walls etc.) and they are not treated any different than stick houses when it comes to codes and zoning.

Modular homes and section built homes are available in high and consistent (!) quality and are in many respects more desirable than site built houses but may be significantly more expensive. The extra expense may be outweighed by the expense or impossibility of on site construction in remote areas.

That's what I think I know about the subject - but I may be wrong...
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 03:47:33 PM by PeteD01 »

Jack

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4725
  • Location: Atlanta, GA
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2014, 05:50:47 PM »
We are in the process of planting to reduce mowing, but it is a long process and seems to be barely making a dent.

What do you mean, "planting?" You're in the country! Just quit mowing and it'll turn itself into woods eventually...

Or, more seriously, look into the idea of permaculture, where you organize your landscape into "zones" that require less and less maintenance the farther they get away from the house.

Also, I second the goat suggestion.

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2014, 06:01:54 PM »
We are in the process of planting to reduce mowing, but it is a long process and seems to be barely making a dent.

What do you mean, "planting?" You're in the country! Just quit mowing and it'll turn itself into woods eventually...

Or, more seriously, look into the idea of permaculture, where you organize your landscape into "zones" that require less and less maintenance the farther they get away from the house.

Also, I second the goat suggestion.

We tried not mowing when we first moved in (I had the same thought and thought it would stop growing at a foot high or worst case become a hay field).   And the fields turned into should-high brambles and thistles.   One could not walk through them, and while they might turn to woods eventually, in the 10 years or more until then it would make fields that we couldn't walk through or see over, basically making the land unusable.   I've looked into the permaculture and we are moving in that direction, but it's a long process.    And while goats are cute in theory, having chickens makes it pretty clear to me that goats would not be lower cost nor PITA factor than mowing (eg., fencing in the whole property, feeding them, medical care, caring for them when we go on vacation, etc).

Although, like I said, the mowing is a PITA, but not the primary motivation for moving.   The primary motivation is just having more efficient/smaller house and saving money on housing.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 06:05:31 PM by Emilyngh »

CashNoCharge

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2014, 08:00:15 PM »
I currently live in a Manufactured Home on a permanent foundation.  A Manufactured Home is built to HUD requirements.  It can be a single-wide or double-wide you see in a trailer park (called Mobile Home because the wheels and axles are still attached) OR it can be permanently affixed to a real property and have the wheels and axles removed - the title is turned into an Affidavit of Affixture.  While the wheels and/or axles are still attached they have a title just like a car.  It is a pain in the butt to find homeowners insurance on it due to age of home (only rated for 30 year life), property type & value.  Finding a lender to do a mortgage on one is challenging - in January 2009 investors like Chase, Wells Fargo, Citi, etc pulled the program and are no longer lending money on them.  They have 2x3 interior wall construction.  We have to call a plumber that specializes in "mobile homes" because the other plumbers in the area come out and say they can't help us. 

A Modular Home is built to BOCA requirements.  For mortgage purposes they are considered the same as a stick built home.  Interior walls are 2x4.

Panelized homes are built in a factory in small wall sections and then loaded on a truck and put together like a jigsaw puzzle.  They are considered "custom built" for mortgages and townships, just like a stick-built but without the weather delays, stolen materials from the jobsite, etc.  You cannot look at a panelized home and "tell" it was built in a factory.

We bought our home in 2008 for 87,500 as a foreclosure in MI, and it is currently worth 65,000.  We live in a nice town, have acreage and a pole barn.  The average home price is 165k for my town. 

I work behind the scenes at the corporate office of one the top 10 real estate companies in the US, but am in no way shape or form a Realtor.  Please do not waste your money on a Manufactured Home.

NumberJohnny5

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 780
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2014, 07:13:05 PM »
You can buy really nice site-built homes (also called stick-built homes). You can also buy really, really crappy ones.

Same with manufactured (mobile) homes.

If you're getting one "custom" built (i.e., not buying surplus, something that's sitting on the lot, whatever), I can almost guarantee a manufactured home built to the same/similar standards, will be cheaper than the site-built one. Lots cheaper.

One we had before, was built like a regular house. Regular pitch roof (the very middle, which was the highest point, had to be installed on-site, because it was too tall to go down the road with). Shingle roof (though metal may be better, that's another debate). If I recall correctly, 2x6 studs on the exterior walls vs standard 2x4. We paid extra to have the studs spaced closer together, more insulation on exterior walls (don't think we got any for interior walls), etc.

Theoretically, you could have a basement. I think I saw a design or two that had a door leading to a basement. My guess would be that you'd have to build the basement and have a crane move the manufactured home into place. I have no idea.

Yes, trailer parks are known to be bad in tornadoes. One reason, there's a lot of individual mobile homes in one place. If a tornado hits a one acre lot with a single home on it...a single home gets destroyed. If a tornado hits an acre lot with 20+ trailers (mobile homes) on it...well...you do the math. Another reason, the quality of the homes, skirting, and anchoring may not be that high (in a stereotypical trailer park...much nicer ones do exist). Get a well constructed manufactured home, get good skirting all around (so wind can't get underneath the house and move it off the foundation), and anchor it to the ground properly...should withstand high winds about as well as any other home.

Here's a quick way I can tell how well a manufactured home is built (note, it's not scientific, seriously flawed, and should not be used by anyone...i.e. don't sue me if you do this and end up with a dud). Go to the tub/shower, and look for the access panel to replace the faucet. Found it? Good, you're done, quality is probably semi-decent or better. Doesn't exist? Expect lots of shortcuts to have been taken during construction, and for "simple" repairs to be much harder than they should be.

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2014, 08:27:17 PM »
I currently live in a Manufactured Home on a permanent foundation.  A Manufactured Home is built to HUD requirements.  It can be a single-wide or double-wide you see in a trailer park (called Mobile Home because the wheels and axles are still attached) OR it can be permanently affixed to a real property and have the wheels and axles removed - the title is turned into an Affidavit of Affixture.  While the wheels and/or axles are still attached they have a title just like a car.  It is a pain in the butt to find homeowners insurance on it due to age of home (only rated for 30 year life), property type & value.  Finding a lender to do a mortgage on one is challenging - in January 2009 investors like Chase, Wells Fargo, Citi, etc pulled the program and are no longer lending money on them.  They have 2x3 interior wall construction.  We have to call a plumber that specializes in "mobile homes" because the other plumbers in the area come out and say they can't help us. 

A Modular Home is built to BOCA requirements.  For mortgage purposes they are considered the same as a stick built home.  Interior walls are 2x4.

Panelized homes are built in a factory in small wall sections and then loaded on a truck and put together like a jigsaw puzzle.  They are considered "custom built" for mortgages and townships, just like a stick-built but without the weather delays, stolen materials from the jobsite, etc.  You cannot look at a panelized home and "tell" it was built in a factory.

We bought our home in 2008 for 87,500 as a foreclosure in MI, and it is currently worth 65,000.  We live in a nice town, have acreage and a pole barn.  The average home price is 165k for my town. 

I work behind the scenes at the corporate office of one the top 10 real estate companies in the US, but am in no way shape or form a Realtor.  Please do not waste your money on a Manufactured Home.

Wow, you have to call a special plumber?   Thanks so much for sharing your experience, very helpful!

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2014, 08:29:45 PM »
You can buy really nice site-built homes (also called stick-built homes). You can also buy really, really crappy ones.

Same with manufactured (mobile) homes.

If you're getting one "custom" built (i.e., not buying surplus, something that's sitting on the lot, whatever), I can almost guarantee a manufactured home built to the same/similar standards, will be cheaper than the site-built one. Lots cheaper.

One we had before, was built like a regular house. Regular pitch roof (the very middle, which was the highest point, had to be installed on-site, because it was too tall to go down the road with). Shingle roof (though metal may be better, that's another debate). If I recall correctly, 2x6 studs on the exterior walls vs standard 2x4. We paid extra to have the studs spaced closer together, more insulation on exterior walls (don't think we got any for interior walls), etc.

Theoretically, you could have a basement. I think I saw a design or two that had a door leading to a basement. My guess would be that you'd have to build the basement and have a crane move the manufactured home into place. I have no idea.

Yes, trailer parks are known to be bad in tornadoes. One reason, there's a lot of individual mobile homes in one place. If a tornado hits a one acre lot with a single home on it...a single home gets destroyed. If a tornado hits an acre lot with 20+ trailers (mobile homes) on it...well...you do the math. Another reason, the quality of the homes, skirting, and anchoring may not be that high (in a stereotypical trailer park...much nicer ones do exist). Get a well constructed manufactured home, get good skirting all around (so wind can't get underneath the house and move it off the foundation), and anchor it to the ground properly...should withstand high winds about as well as any other home.

Here's a quick way I can tell how well a manufactured home is built (note, it's not scientific, seriously flawed, and should not be used by anyone...i.e. don't sue me if you do this and end up with a dud). Go to the tub/shower, and look for the access panel to replace the faucet. Found it? Good, you're done, quality is probably semi-decent or better. Doesn't exist? Expect lots of shortcuts to have been taken during construction, and for "simple" repairs to be much harder than they should be.

Thanks for the info!   (And let's see if I can remember the tip about the access panel in the 5 years or so when we're seriously looking)

Roots&Wings

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1555
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2014, 09:53:02 AM »
The info in this thread has been very helpful.  I'm considering a manufactured home (double wide from 1988) that's on a permanent foundation and private land (1.2 acres with private spring water source and septic) in a great location. 

The owners added a permanent foundation and replaced the exterior siding and roofing in 2008.  It's well maintained and the home construction seems to meet most of the "mid-range" quality attributes according to this webpost: http://www.mcgarryandmadsen.com/inspection/Blog/Entries/2013/1/2_How_can_I_tell_if_a_mobile_home_is_well_constructed.html

I understand there are a lot of cons to manufactured homes with respect to resale, financing availability, insurability, construction quality, etc., but the affordability is very appealing (maybe I'm being cheap though), and the land will always retain some value. 

My realtor has said you are buying the land and should think about building a 'normal' home in future to replace the double wide.  So if I could get the property for the value of the land, that might work.  The tax assessment for the property is $45k for the house + $125k for the land (according to my realtor, the tax assessor values are typically +/- 25% of the market value in this area).

But, I will still need live there in the meantime, and since a permanent foundation is in place, I'm unsure how I would be able to 'upgrade' the house (e.g. remove or somehow convert the double wide into a site built home) in an affordable manner.  Plus it seems wasteful if the existing home is functional. 

Or, if I come to terms with the stigma of a double wide and the fact that I am basically buying the value of the land only, it could work as-is.

Just curious if anyone has experience with major renovation/rebuilding a manufactured home on an existing foundation to 'normal' site built standards, or other thoughts on this? 

Exflyboy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8397
  • Age: 62
  • Location: Corvallis, Oregon
  • Expat Brit living in the New World..:)
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2014, 10:09:04 AM »
I have a single wide I use as a rental.. It was a killer deal.

i make over $800 a month and I bought the house already installed on my property for $12,000... Yes twelve grand. It cost the previous owner $45k to put it in with all the permits, new septic etc etc.

It had been there 2 years and they had to move. I know it was $12k to purchase because the mortgage company would not loan me any money on a mfd home.. thus I had to come up with the cash.

So I bought a "house" for $12k and and it pays $800 or so per month and has done so since 1997...Killer deal!..:)

The downside of course is that its a throw away house from my perspective.. I had some siding fail on it and there was no Tyvek water proof membrane underneath so it rotted a LOT of wood.

So it is as cheaply made as code at the time allowed.

So I think if you view it as a cheap way of getting somewhere to live, low RE taxes etc but the house will be throwaway in say 20 to 25 years then its a good deal.

Frank

Debt Free in Alabama

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2014, 11:16:05 AM »
I've owned 30 tin boxes otherwise known as mobile homes, used as rentals.  I, my children, and my handy man have all done the maintenance on them, so I have insider knowledge.
In the South, one of our redneck jokes is this: "you know you're a redneck if your last 3 houses are rotting on the back 40."
Bottom line: if, under certain circumstances, you want a very cheap place to live for a medium number of years (say 5-8?) to save up lots of money, they could be seen as a decent option.
Some truths about mobile homes: It's always about water and it's destructive effects on the poor construction.
1. THeir inherent value is $0 once you buy it.  That's where it's price is headed, regardless of what you do, and it's going to that price quickly as you've seen with some of the stories already.  What depreciation doesn't take of your purchase price, mainteance will. That's OK if you're ready for it.
2. Particle wood floors are used, and they are of the devil.  ANY leak, drips, seepage, shower stall splashing, dishwashing spills, under-sink drain leaks in kitchen/bath, ice maker line leaks, weather stripping leaks around the bottom of the doors, open windows in a rain storm (I could go on with this) can and usually WILL reach the particle board floors, regardless of the amount of flooring you have over them.  "High end" (for a MH) laminate wood floors laid over particle board floors is like having a dry sponge over compressed newspaper when it all invariably gets wet.  End result: swelling, then softening, then rotting and falling through floors.
3. Metal roofs on MH leak much more of the time than ones installed by certified, qualified home builders on your stick-built house.  This can be remedied many times with a good surface cleaning and metal roof paint.  It always seems to leak at the edge where the gutters are attached.  I would do this the day I bought it, even if it doesn't appear to leak, as it will, soon.

So, the idea of a throw away home is just that. 

Roots&Wings

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1555
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2014, 11:20:06 AM »
I have a single wide I use as a rental.. It was a killer deal.

i make over $800 a month and I bought the house already installed on my property for $12,000... Yes twelve grand. It cost the previous owner $45k to put it in with all the permits, new septic etc etc.

It had been there 2 years and they had to move. I know it was $12k to purchase because the mortgage company would not loan me any money on a mfd home.. thus I had to come up with the cash.

So I bought a "house" for $12k and and it pays $800 or so per month and has done so since 1997...Killer deal!..:)

The downside of course is that its a throw away house from my perspective.. I had some siding fail on it and there was no Tyvek water proof membrane underneath so it rotted a LOT of wood.

So it is as cheaply made as code at the time allowed.

So I think if you view it as a cheap way of getting somewhere to live, low RE taxes etc but the house will be throwaway in say 20 to 25 years then its a good deal.

Frank

That is a killer deal!  How do you plan to get rid of it when it is no longer livable and has reached the throwaway stage, or do you intend to sell it prior to that point? 

I'm having trouble understanding how a manufactured home that is regularly maintained by the owner would become a throwaway and deteriorate to a point of unlivability after 20-30 yrs.  But perhaps certain elements in manufactured home construction are prone to failure after awhile (given the cheaper construction) which wouldn't make financial sense to try to fix, and scrapping would be better at that point.

Although it seems Debt Free in Alabama's post just answered that :)  That's so much for the helpful input!
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 11:21:47 AM by step-in-time »

naloj

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 42
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Illinois
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2014, 12:17:08 PM »
Another thing to remember with a manufactured house is that the pipes are exposed so you either need to set the trailer deep enough into the ground that the pipes are below the freeze line or heat tape and insulate everything and pray a breaker doesn't trip while you're on winter vacation or something.

paddedhat

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2228
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2014, 05:39:10 AM »
As a retired homebuilder, I'm always amazed at how well this industry has managed to confuse the public, and has done so strictly for their own gain.

 My last house was a State Code modular home that was built very similar to a site built home. The exception being that all systems and structure were built to a higher standard than is typical for this market, and it came with an unusually steep roof pitch, and many high end finishes and products installed such as central vac, a huge solid cherry kitchen, Anderson windows and doors, real plywood subfloor, 5/8" plywood roof deck, etc.....Now I could of taken the same plan to another regional manufacturer, and downgraded everything to the point that it would of cost me 20% less and been only slightly more durable than a mobile home.

Last year the place sold for full appraisal, without any deduction for the fact that it was a modular, and did so without a realtor, and before it was even officially offered for sale.

OTOH, the industry is quite deceptive in describing their products.  Single and double side trailers were, are, and always will be pretty sketchy products. They are often sold with a VIN # and title from the state DMV, and the have two things in common. First, they are built to federal HUD standards, not to building codes like the IRC, ICC, BOCA, etc.... These HUD codes are the bare minimum to erect a dwelling that is somewhat safe and durable enough to just get the job done. The other commonality it that they are built on a permanent frame, and the frame is an integral part of the unit. A state code modular is built in the factory and lifted onto a "carrier" which is used to deliver it to the site. At that point a crane removes the sections and places them on the foundation.

 The industry profits from confusion in all of this by never using the term "trailer" or "double-wide" since they both have negative connotations. Instead, they market trailers as "HUD code modular" or manufactured homes.

Bottom line?  It is quite possible to buy a really top notch modular, and end up with a product that is superior to a typical site built tract house.  I've built countless new site built homes, fixed and remodeled a few trailers, and housed my family in a great modular for a decade, so I have been involved with every end of this spectrum.  There is a lot of prejudice and misunderstanding involving anything that is manufactured, and the level of ignorance and lack of acceptance when it comes to state code products is very regional.  PA. is the center of the state code industry in the northeast. A state code home here doesn't raise an eyebrow from buyers or banks. This is quite different that places like Texas, where I have spoke to others in the building business who are firm in their belief than anything not built on site is automatically crap, and will depreciate. It's kind of sad, since the site built industry is about a half century behind modern manufacturing, and the availability of tradespeople who are not illegals, and reliable and not drunks or druggies, is becoming a major problem in many areas. 


TomTX

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5345
  • Location: Texas
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2014, 06:12:59 AM »
We are in the process of planting to reduce mowing, but it is a long process and seems to be barely making a dent.

What do you mean, "planting?" You're in the country! Just quit mowing and it'll turn itself into woods eventually...

Or, more seriously, look into the idea of permaculture, where you organize your landscape into "zones" that require less and less maintenance the farther they get away from the house.

Also, I second the goat suggestion.

We tried not mowing when we first moved in (I had the same thought and thought it would stop growing at a foot high or worst case become a hay field).   And the fields turned into should-high brambles and thistles.   One could not walk through them, and while they might turn to woods eventually, in the 10 years or more until then it would make fields that we couldn't walk through or see over, basically making the land unusable.   I've looked into the permaculture and we are moving in that direction, but it's a long process.    And while goats are cute in theory, having chickens makes it pretty clear to me that goats would not be lower cost nor PITA factor than mowing (eg., fencing in the whole property, feeding them, medical care, caring for them when we go on vacation, etc).

Although, like I said, the mowing is a PITA, but not the primary motivation for moving.   The primary motivation is just having more efficient/smaller house and saving money on housing.

So, instead of mowing *everything* you mow 1/4 acre near the house, mow the edge and mow pathways through the rest.

Jeremy E.

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1946
  • Location: Lewiston, ID
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2014, 02:48:35 PM »
Sorry for posting on an old post, but in case I can help.
I currently live in a double wide manufactured home, its a 1980 double wide, 28' by 65'.
I got it at an auction for $7500. I had to separate it, put axles under it, hire someone to move it to a new lot that I bought, rented equipment to dig a foundation, hired someone to make me some concrete forms and poured some concrete. Also had to pay for water hookup and electric hookup. After the house was in place, I tore out all of the paneling and put in good insulation and Sheetrock. I also replaced the old windows with new efficient windows and bought a used heat pump to replace the old furnace.  It was a lot of work, and people might think it's not as cool as there stick built house, but I spent a total of less than $100,000 + 1 year of hard side work, where as other houses around me are $250,000+. I think it's a viable option. Some things to be aware of, I had to buy a lot in a suburb of the city I work because there are regulations in some cities that dont let you put in manufactured homes, especially used ones(check before you buy anything). Also most banks won't loan you money for this type of project(you can get loans for the lot, but not the home or other expenses) and they won't give other people loans for it either. So you need to have cash to do it, and can only sell it to people with cash(or do an escrow deal). If I ever move I'll just turn it into a rental.

The Architect

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 120
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2014, 04:38:07 PM »
... but I spent a total of less than $100,000 + 1 year of hard side work, where as other houses around me are $250,000+...

If you spent that much, and put in a foundation etc., why not just build a regular stick-frame house and gain an instant $150,000 in equity?

Forcus

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 714
  • Location: Central Illinois
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2014, 03:48:53 PM »
There's been a lot of good conversation, don't know if my thoughts add anything:

(1) We moved from an old home to a relatively new modular home. We specifically looked for this brand of modular home because of certain features like the floor construction and the insulation (spray in foam), and the fact we really didn't like any of the stick builders aroun dhere. The house is solid as a rock, tight, no maintenance, !!BUT!! cost per square foot is a little higher than traditional stick built homes around here. That being said, after seeing the factory and doing research I am convinced it is higher quality than stick built. Unless you go high end around here, a new $300k stick built home will usually have obvious drywall flaws, corners cut, etc. Your area may be different but I was shocked. Stick built does not necessarily mean higher quality. Of course there are crappy modular home builders too.

(2) I lived in an older mobile home for a short time. I did consider a manufacturered home at one time. For certain situations it works but there are a lot of compromises, even in the new ones. The new ones often are spec'd with things like whirlpool tubs but the water heaters are standard size which means by time you get the tub full the water is tepid. End result, useless feature. Walls are going to be thin, insulation likely limited, and being elevated is a major drawback around here because of frozen pipes. Around here the nicer ones cost around $50k and see very rapid depreciation to around $20k after 5 years and then slower after that. However it might still pencil out vs. an older inefficient home that needs a total remodel. Also I would never advise remodeling a trailer unless it's just paint and carpet. Just not worth it IMO even if it was free.

(3) To me this comes down to simple economics. The total cost /mo for your current place vs. the same for a trailer vs. modular vs. rent / something else over a defined period of time like 5 or 10 years. Our "new" 185k house costs less per month even with mortgage than our old $100k house. On the face of it you'd say, well one is 2x the cost of the other but in reality when you factor in the area, efficiency (big one), depreciation, maintenance, it's cheaper to be in the more expensive house (FOR OUR SITUATION of course). A new trailer might be the best option even with rapid depreciation if it fits your needs in the other ways. I wouldn't think it would be financially but again my example above shows that what is intuitive is not necessarily the right path.

(4) One other thing, have you looked at Katrina houses or some other form of small house? I bought several small house books when we were thinking about building, and at one time there were Katrina house plans from either Lowes or Home Depot. Either way it was about bang for the buck in materials and footprint with some neat, cozy designs. Probably about $100k out the door on a small lot around here. But these might be a hard sell if you change your mind down the road, unless you can find a like minded buyer.

Glenstache

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3493
  • Age: 94
  • Location: Upper left corner
  • FI(lean) working on the "RE"
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2019, 10:29:54 AM »
Just for the record, it is worth looking into what materials manufacturers are using in construction. Mobile homes use different construction materials that are associated with respiratory problems. Stick build and modular homes can have issues too (mold, nasty carpet, etc), but mobile homes and RVs can be pretty nasty.

See: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211335517300992

Exflyboy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8397
  • Age: 62
  • Location: Corvallis, Oregon
  • Expat Brit living in the New World..:)
Re: manufactured homes
« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2019, 03:20:18 PM »
I have a single wide mobile home built in '95. This is a rental put on our property (along with the main house) and the previous owner paid about $45k to buy/install it.

in 1997 I bought the place and we valued the mobile home at $12,000. Maybe that was a little under valued, maybe not. Either way its value plummeted in just over a year.

Today we still have the rental. Its OK, its cheaply made (had to replace the roof at 15 years and about half the siding so far), 22 years have taken their toll but its still quite habitable. Honestly if someone offered me $5k to haul it off (and I'd be out of the rental business) I'd be very tempted to take it.

As a rental the returns have been fantastic (about $230k in rent over that time roughly). But would I buy one as my permanent home.. No i wouldn't.

What you might consider is buying a used trailer for $5k then over the next 5 to 10 years build your permanent house on the same piece of property.. then sell the mobile.