Author Topic: Male preschool teachers  (Read 60512 times)

Mustache Fatty

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 56
Male preschool teachers
« on: March 08, 2016, 07:21:22 AM »
Ever since my son (now in third grade) went to preschool I have been thinking about becoming a preschool teacher once I am FIREd.  I have begun looking at the qualifications needed for the job, and I don't think that I would have trouble meeting them in my state, and I have taught (albeit at the college level) for 20 years.  I also feel like I am very patient with little kids, would do a good job, and would enjoy it.

HOWEVER, I directly asked a preschool teacher about what steps I would need to take to work at her school and she said something to the effect of, "no one would sign up for your class."  Further discussion with her revealed that parents would wonder why a middle-aged male was so interested in teaching toddlers, unease in my ability to handle potty issues, etc.  She noted that this was unfair and unfortunate, but it was just the way it is.  I appreciated her candor, and while it is unfortunate that this is the state of the world these days, I could see her point.  I also found out that only about 2% of preschool teachers nationwide are male.

BUT, for a variety of reasons (men can serve as a male role model for kids without a father at home, girls are now outpacing boys in school, etc) it is thought that male preschool teachers would be very much wanted, if only it could be determined 100% that he is not some pervert.

My question to the forum is: would you be fine sending your kid to a male preschool teacher?  I want to know the truth about this before I start paying to take courses and doing all the things to prepare myself for a second career in this.

Lucky Girl

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 175
  • Location: Boston area
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2016, 07:34:20 AM »
My daughter had a male preschool teacher.  He was great.  But I did feel some unease at first.  It was weird!  It shouldn't be, and I completely get that.  Reverse gender discrimination.  I really appreciate now that he was a great teacher, and wish he was still there, because my son is about to move up into that classroom and he has always had female teachers.  He needs a male role model!

I think there are a few things that will be very important.  Having a co-teacher who is female would be a big help to put mothers at ease.  If you could get a job at a larger center, instead of working on your own, parents would be far more likely to trust you.  I think also being very clear about why you want that job with the parents will put them at ease, and acknowledge that you are breaking some stereotypes.  The man who was my daughter's teacher wanted to move up to kindergarten teaching at a public school, but needed experience.  As I said, he was great, but I never understood what his career path was until after he left.

lthenderson

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2259
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2016, 07:41:00 AM »
I'm on a school board and have hired several male preschool and elementary school teachers. We've never had problems filling the classes. Actually we generally get great reviews because single moms (and there are a lot of them out there) like having a father like figure in their children's lives for part of the day. The male kids definitely like having a male role model in a mostly female dominated environment. I say go for it!

dycker1978

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 768
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2016, 07:42:44 AM »
Good old gender bias and roles.  I think society needs to work on getting ride of them.  I would send my kids to a male preschool teacher, or a female dr., or a transgender therapist.  Gender does not make the person good or bad... that is all pre-conceived crap.

onlykelsey

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2016, 07:44:46 AM »
I would absolutely send my kids to a male preschool teacher but I agree that there are people who would not.  In NYC male nannies appear to be more highly in demand than female, and command higher rates, actually.  But I'm sure it varies in other regions of the country.

I take it you're in the US?

Cromacster

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1695
  • Location: Minnesnowta
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2016, 07:46:39 AM »
A friend of mine teaches kindergarten in North Carolina.  He didn't even start college until he was 35 or so, and finished his masters when he was 40 something.  Parents do everything they can to get into his class.  From the sounds of it there is even a wait list.

So I guess don't let the fact that your male or middle-aged stop you.  If you are good at what you do the people will come.

onlykelsey

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2016, 07:47:54 AM »
One of my favorite teachers of childhood was my (male) Mr. Rogers-style kindergarten teacher.  I don't think teaching, especially the sub-10 set, should be a female-only profession.

onlykelsey

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2016, 07:49:38 AM »
Looks like that post is already gone.  I'd love to see age and geography stats on folks who said they wouldn't use a male teacher.

Chris22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3770
  • Location: Chicago NW Suburbs
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2016, 07:52:43 AM »
My daughter has been in multiple classes (as she ages) across two daycare/schools.  It's never been 1 teacher to the class.  It's always multiple teachers.  So even if I thought there would be a problem, which I wouldn't, having two people there would allay that concern anyways.

zhelud

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 243
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2016, 07:58:59 AM »
Our elementary school has pre-K, and one of the teachers is a man. He also happens to be one of the best teachers in the school, and taught other grades before moving to pre-K.  The kids are lucky to have him.
I think it is nice for young kids, in both pre-K and elementary, to have both male and female teachers.  The male teachers tend to "get" the boys better, especially their higher energy levels.

Fun fact- the original members of the Wiggles met when they were in school studying early childhood education.

StarBright

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3276
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2016, 08:15:55 AM »
My son had a male pre-school teacher and loved him! (still talks about him a year later).

It was a multi teacher classroom with an early 50s earth mother-style woman who had been teaching pre-K for 20 years, the male teacher in his early 40s, and a young woman fresh out of college. It was a wonderful mix of energies and perspectives for a group of fifteen 3year olds.

Maybe look into a setting where you would be group instructing?

This was also in a sort of upper middle class, granola area and the preschool had a very specific educational philosophy: Reggio style education. All of us parents were fine with having a male teacher.

They've since hired a couple of other floaters/subs who are men - seems to be going just fine.

Slow&Steady

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 698
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2016, 08:23:16 AM »
We would use a male pre-school teacher and my husband who does the pick-ups and drop-offs would probably love to not be the only adult male in the room. 

For those that are concerned about potty training I wouldn't think that would be an issue at the pre-school level.  In my area the kids can't go to the pre-school room until after they are potty trained.

KCM5

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 881
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2016, 08:39:16 AM »
I agree with everyone that a male teacher at a preschool would be welcome.

Part of the reason that I've always like daycare centers rather that in-home is that there are lots of people around making sure everything's as it should be. A preschool teacher would rarely be alone with a child. And I would appreciate a male teacher, showing that caretaking professions aren't just women's work.

And it sounds like a lovely second career.

justajane

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2146
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2016, 08:40:23 AM »
My oldest son also had a male preschool teacher. No problem whatsoever. He's actually highly sought after. We weren't able to get our second child in the same class because there were too many other younger siblings who requested him first.

I think it is very unfortunate that you should have to consider this at all. And why would preschool be any different than older grades? Is it about the bathroom breaks and potential accidents? There are actually two male preschool teachers at this school, as well as a male music teacher and a male PE teacher. But no kindergarten, first, second, or third grade male teachers. I believe the next male teacher is in fourth grade, and then they abound at the middle and high school level. Plus all the principals in our district are male except for the early childhood one. It's interesting to think about this issue.

My husband enjoys watching soccer, even children playing and even if our own sons aren't playing. Once he went to a 10 year old or so boy's soccer game by himself. Afterwards I told him that it probably wasn't a good idea for him to do it again. I worried that someone might figure out that he wasn't actually a parent to any of the kids playing and think he was a creep. No one would bat an eye if I did the same thing. I guess he could do it in the future, as long as he takes our boys with him.

Having said all this, I probably wouldn't have a male nanny, but I probably wouldn't have a female nanny either. To me, it's just hard for me to trust someone that will be alone that much with my child. I prefer daycare settings with more checks and balances. I probably wouldn't have a problem with a male daycare worker in a group, although I haven't had one yet.

dycker1978

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 768
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2016, 08:45:22 AM »
My husband enjoys watching soccer, even children playing and even if our own sons aren't playing. Once he went to a 10 year old or so boy's soccer game by himself. Afterwards I told him that it probably wasn't a good idea for him to do it again. I worried that someone might figure out that he wasn't actually a parent to any of the kids playing and think he was a creep. No one would bat an eye if I did the same thing. I guess he could do it in the future, as long as he takes our boys with him.

I just had to single this out.  Not that there was anything wrong with what you said, it is a societal view that is wrong.  This would be frowned upon, but yet I know many males that coach soccer after their child has "graduated" to the older years of soccer.  There never seems to be any issue with a coach, just a bystander... weird world we live in.

JustGettingStarted1980

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 377
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2016, 08:48:36 AM »
I say go for it. I wouldn't hesitate to send my two young kids to a preschool with a male teacher. Both women and men have to go through background checks, after all.  I think you'd probably be more sought after my the schools themselves simply because you are male, to provide more options for the parents, but also because any workplace with all people of the same gender can often become a drag...

JGS

charis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3163
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2016, 08:49:34 AM »
My daughter hasn't had a male head teacher/room leader yet, but she has had several male teachers in pre-K and K who took over the class for some time every day.  She has loved them all.  I was definitely more wary of male preschool teachers prior to actually having them teach my daughter.  At this point, I would be uneasy with a male nanny, or if the program was a one-person operation and a male teacher was the only adult around much of the time.   One of these exists in my town, the owner/operator/teacher is a man, and I would not be comfortable with it (despite logically knowing that is probably completely safe).

ETA that my perspective is unfortunately colored by my experience in law enforcement and certainly not applicable generally, but it is what it is.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 09:04:32 AM by jezebel »

AZDude

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1296
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2016, 08:50:40 AM »
Quote
My question to the forum is: would you be fine sending your kid to a male preschool teacher?  I want to know the truth about this before I start paying to take courses and doing all the things to prepare myself for a second career in this.

In a group setting, yes. I would be uncomfortable letting my daughter be by herself with a man I don't know very well. At the preschool she goes to now, there is usually more than one person in the room, and generally speaking, there are 10-15 rowdy 3-5 year olds running around. Most of the teachers look worn out by the end of the day, and some are much better than others at being responsible.

I honestly think a handful of men would probably add something positive to the mix, assuming its the right men.

tl;dr version: Probably, depending on how the class was structured.

Also, its funny, because I asked my wife how to get better pay for the education field and she said "have more men be teachers". Not totally relevant, but still funny in a sad but true kind of way.

justajane

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2146
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2016, 08:53:29 AM »
My husband enjoys watching soccer, even children playing and even if our own sons aren't playing. Once he went to a 10 year old or so boy's soccer game by himself. Afterwards I told him that it probably wasn't a good idea for him to do it again. I worried that someone might figure out that he wasn't actually a parent to any of the kids playing and think he was a creep. No one would bat an eye if I did the same thing. I guess he could do it in the future, as long as he takes our boys with him.

I just had to single this out.  Not that there was anything wrong with what you said, it is a societal view that is wrong.  This would be frowned upon, but yet I know many males that coach soccer after their child has "graduated" to the older years of soccer.  There never seems to be any issue with a coach, just a bystander... weird world we live in.

Oh, I agree completely. I think it is very inconsistent that a middle aged man can't watch youth sports by himself.  There also seems to be an age limit when it becomes acceptable again. I'm guessing there are lots of middle aged men who go to our high school sporting events, often by themselves. I don't imagine that is a problem in the slightest. But 10 year olds? Yeah, that's viewed as weird. For high school events, it is interpreted as a communal event. The middle aged man might have attended the high school years ago and is a fan of the team still as an alumna.

Social perceptions are often not logical.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 08:55:08 AM by justajane »

NonprofitER

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 246
  • Location: Texas
  • Reaching FIRE w/ High Purpose (Low Pay) Nonprofit
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2016, 09:59:23 AM »
Our daughter's preschool had a male teacher too (in a 3 - 5's class).  He was a big hit with the kids and as far as I know, no one ever raised an issue. Most preschools have a policy with more than one teacher present anyway.


mak1277

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 792
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2016, 10:09:42 AM »
My husband enjoys watching soccer, even children playing and even if our own sons aren't playing. Once he went to a 10 year old or so boy's soccer game by himself. Afterwards I told him that it probably wasn't a good idea for him to do it again. I worried that someone might figure out that he wasn't actually a parent to any of the kids playing and think he was a creep. No one would bat an eye if I did the same thing. I guess he could do it in the future, as long as he takes our boys with him.

I just had to single this out.  Not that there was anything wrong with what you said, it is a societal view that is wrong.  This would be frowned upon, but yet I know many males that coach soccer after their child has "graduated" to the older years of soccer.  There never seems to be any issue with a coach, just a bystander... weird world we live in.

Bolded section is not necessarily true.  I don't have kids and have, in the past, been a volunteer Little League Baseball coach.  I have had numerous parents ask me straight out why I'm coaching if I don't have kids.

dycker1978

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 768
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2016, 10:12:02 AM »
My husband enjoys watching soccer, even children playing and even if our own sons aren't playing. Once he went to a 10 year old or so boy's soccer game by himself. Afterwards I told him that it probably wasn't a good idea for him to do it again. I worried that someone might figure out that he wasn't actually a parent to any of the kids playing and think he was a creep. No one would bat an eye if I did the same thing. I guess he could do it in the future, as long as he takes our boys with him.

I just had to single this out.  Not that there was anything wrong with what you said, it is a societal view that is wrong.  This would be frowned upon, but yet I know many males that coach soccer after their child has "graduated" to the older years of soccer.  There never seems to be any issue with a coach, just a bystander... weird world we live in.

Bolded section is not necessarily true.  I don't have kids and have, in the past, been a volunteer Little League Baseball coach.  I have had numerous parents ask me straight out why I'm coaching if I don't have kids.

Wrong, so wrong.  And the answer is because none of them "has the time" to take interest in the kids life and coach....

mm1970

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10934
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2016, 10:15:12 AM »
My husband enjoys watching soccer, even children playing and even if our own sons aren't playing. Once he went to a 10 year old or so boy's soccer game by himself. Afterwards I told him that it probably wasn't a good idea for him to do it again. I worried that someone might figure out that he wasn't actually a parent to any of the kids playing and think he was a creep. No one would bat an eye if I did the same thing. I guess he could do it in the future, as long as he takes our boys with him.

I just had to single this out.  Not that there was anything wrong with what you said, it is a societal view that is wrong.  This would be frowned upon, but yet I know many males that coach soccer after their child has "graduated" to the older years of soccer.  There never seems to be any issue with a coach, just a bystander... weird world we live in.

I wouldn't have a problem with a  male preschool teacher.  I mean, I have a male husband.  There aren't many in my town though, and we only have one male teacher in our school.  Our new principal is male though.

Back in the day when my older son was in preschool, he had a few friends.  One of them was Steven.  Steven was the 4th kid, and the mom told me once that she wanted each kid to be like an "only", so they were 6 years apart.  So when Steven was 6 (our boys were still casual friends by then, even though they went to different elementary schools), his siblings were 12,18,and 24.

Well, Steven's dad was older.  In his early 50's by then I think and looked even older than that.  Our boys would meet and play at this huge playground.  Often the dad would get the side-eye from parents for sitting at a picnic table, watching, and even once the police came to talk to him.  He'd accepted that by then.  Anyway, whenever our boys were there at the same time, I made a point to go sit with him and chat with him.  I think it calmed the other parents, plus he's a really nice guy.

mm1970

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10934
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2016, 10:16:45 AM »
My husband enjoys watching soccer, even children playing and even if our own sons aren't playing. Once he went to a 10 year old or so boy's soccer game by himself. Afterwards I told him that it probably wasn't a good idea for him to do it again. I worried that someone might figure out that he wasn't actually a parent to any of the kids playing and think he was a creep. No one would bat an eye if I did the same thing. I guess he could do it in the future, as long as he takes our boys with him.

I just had to single this out.  Not that there was anything wrong with what you said, it is a societal view that is wrong.  This would be frowned upon, but yet I know many males that coach soccer after their child has "graduated" to the older years of soccer.  There never seems to be any issue with a coach, just a bystander... weird world we live in.

Bolded section is not necessarily true.  I don't have kids and have, in the past, been a volunteer Little League Baseball coach.  I have had numerous parents ask me straight out why I'm coaching if I don't have kids.

Wrong, so wrong.  And the answer is because none of them "has the time" to take interest in the kids life and coach....

My son's baseball coach doesn't have kids on our team (he does have a toddler).  He very proudly told us that because it means he can be impartial.  Anyway, we have 3 coaches.  Main coach is one guy, plus his dad who has been coaching forever and is teenaged brother.

J Boogie

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1531
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2016, 10:50:22 AM »
My husband enjoys watching soccer, even children playing and even if our own sons aren't playing. Once he went to a 10 year old or so boy's soccer game by himself. Afterwards I told him that it probably wasn't a good idea for him to do it again. I worried that someone might figure out that he wasn't actually a parent to any of the kids playing and think he was a creep. No one would bat an eye if I did the same thing. I guess he could do it in the future, as long as he takes our boys with him.

I just had to single this out.  Not that there was anything wrong with what you said, it is a societal view that is wrong.  This would be frowned upon, but yet I know many males that coach soccer after their child has "graduated" to the older years of soccer.  There never seems to be any issue with a coach, just a bystander... weird world we live in.

Oh, I agree completely. I think it is very inconsistent that a middle aged man can't watch youth sports by himself.  There also seems to be an age limit when it becomes acceptable again. I'm guessing there are lots of middle aged men who go to our high school sporting events, often by themselves. I don't imagine that is a problem in the slightest. But 10 year olds? Yeah, that's viewed as weird. For high school events, it is interpreted as a communal event. The middle aged man might have attended the high school years ago and is a fan of the team still as an alumna.

Social perceptions are often not logical.

Just to provide an alternative viewpoint, high schoolers and even some middle schoolers can be pretty good at sports and most people would concede genuine entertainment value could be derived.  Due to the skill level of most 10 year olds, I don't think it's unreasonable to become somewhat suspicious of an unrelated grown man attending the game.

To put it as delicately as possible, I think we as a society can often fear the worst and instinctively understand that men have the capability to abuse in a way that women don't.  There's also far more instances where we've heard of men sexually abusing children than women.  I believe our aversion to placing trust in men being around our children alone is a rational and logical decision based on minimizing the possibility that the worst could happen.

I realize this type of thinking can be seen as offensive (especially when applied in a racial way, which I don't support) but let's be honest.  We're not going to put our children's safety on the line just to avoid giving offense to men.

With all that said, if they have a strict policy that one teacher can never be alone with students, and I met and felt this male teacher was trustworthy, I'd be ok with it.  (My wife wouldn't though)

I spent a year or so volunteering at an elementary school in a low income area.  I didn't think anything of it then, but I was frequently alone with kindergartners for pretty extended periods of time and all they knew about me is that I attended a college in the area.  It's fine because it was me, and I'm not a threat to kids, but I now see that situation as pretty alarming as a parent.



rageth

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2016, 11:21:42 AM »
I am a male 1st grade teacher.  Granted I don't have to deal with potty issues, but pre-K is getting really academic, at least in my state, these days.  I have never had any parents complain about my being a male.  That said, I always take precautions to never be alone anywhere that could be seen as private (closed classroom, etc.) with a student male or female.  People are always trying to push me to teach the higher grades because I'm a male, so obviously that is what I must want to do.

I've worked with students from Kindergarten up to 6th grade in a classroom and all the way up to college in a tutoring situation.  I prefer working with the younger kids, though.  I don't get the social problems that the upper grade teachers get.  I get to really focus in on reading a lot, and seeing kids go from barely being able to read and write at the beginning of first grade to reading chapter books at the end of first grade is really rewarding.

If you get licensed as a pre-K teacher and get some experience, I don't think you should have any problem finding kids to sign up for your class.

2buttons

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 393
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2016, 11:24:41 AM »
Both of my sons are in a daycare with "a preschool class" with a male teacher.  Candidly, I have thought about what his deal is on numerous occasions, but I have zero concerns with safety or other issues. Most daycares mandate more than one teacher in rooms, and have supervisors etc. I can also walk into my sons' daycare at any hour/any time to pick him up, and teachers wouldn't have a heads up I was coming.   

That said, I was shocked to learn that my sons daycare cannot punish a child for doing something wrong.  I am not suggesting that he be paddled, but they basically have to move him to some other part of the daycare where he has to sit and read a fun book rather than play with his friends if he does something wrong.   

kanga1622

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 421
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2016, 11:29:12 AM »
My DH is a pre-school teacher's aide. Both the teachers he works with (he has one teacher in the AM and one teacher in the PM and two different classes) are female. He does a lot of diaper changes and bathroom breaks with the kids. Whichever adult isn't cleaning up helps with bathroom breaks. It may seem unusual at the outset to some families though. Seems like a lot of the dads we run in to around town are a little thrown when their kids randomly hug my husband at the store - most of the dads haven't met my DH as mostly moms do the transportation for his classroom.

If your area is one where you have an aide in your classroom, I think it would probably be fine. You could also volunteer in classrooms if you aren't needing the paid employment. DH loves when volunteers are there to help with art projects and the teacher/aide can work one-on-one with a child that needs a little extra help. You might also look into working in the school district as a para. Typically you would get assigned as one-on-one support to a child that is on an IEP or has special needs. Our district is also always looking for lunchroom helpers or recess supervisors. Lots of kids need help opening their milks, getting condiments, getting a fork after they drop the first one, etc.

dycker1978

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 768
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2016, 12:05:10 PM »
My husband enjoys watching soccer, even children playing and even if our own sons aren't playing. Once he went to a 10 year old or so boy's soccer game by himself. Afterwards I told him that it probably wasn't a good idea for him to do it again. I worried that someone might figure out that he wasn't actually a parent to any of the kids playing and think he was a creep. No one would bat an eye if I did the same thing. I guess he could do it in the future, as long as he takes our boys with him.

I just had to single this out.  Not that there was anything wrong with what you said, it is a societal view that is wrong.  This would be frowned upon, but yet I know many males that coach soccer after their child has "graduated" to the older years of soccer.  There never seems to be any issue with a coach, just a bystander... weird world we live in.

Oh, I agree completely. I think it is very inconsistent that a middle aged man can't watch youth sports by himself.  There also seems to be an age limit when it becomes acceptable again. I'm guessing there are lots of middle aged men who go to our high school sporting events, often by themselves. I don't imagine that is a problem in the slightest. But 10 year olds? Yeah, that's viewed as weird. For high school events, it is interpreted as a communal event. The middle aged man might have attended the high school years ago and is a fan of the team still as an alumna.

Social perceptions are often not logical.

Just to provide an alternative viewpoint, high schoolers and even some middle schoolers can be pretty good at sports and most people would concede genuine entertainment value could be derived.  Due to the skill level of most 10 year olds, I don't think it's unreasonable to become somewhat suspicious of an unrelated grown man attending the game.

To put it as delicately as possible, I think we as a society can often fear the worst and instinctively understand that men have the capability to abuse in a way that women don't.  There's also far more instances where we've heard of men sexually abusing children than women.  I believe our aversion to placing trust in men being around our children alone is a rational and logical decision based on minimizing the possibility that the worst could happen.

I realize this type of thinking can be seen as offensive (especially when applied in a racial way, which I don't support) but let's be honest.  We're not going to put our children's safety on the line just to avoid giving offense to men.

With all that said, if they have a strict policy that one teacher can never be alone with students, and I met and felt this male teacher was trustworthy, I'd be ok with it.  (My wife wouldn't though)

I spent a year or so volunteering at an elementary school in a low income area.  I didn't think anything of it then, but I was frequently alone with kindergartners for pretty extended periods of time and all they knew about me is that I attended a college in the area.  It's fine because it was me, and I'm not a threat to kids, but I now see that situation as pretty alarming as a parent.

This is a false threat though.  the statistics are fed through media which happen to report the negative and blow things way out of proportion.  The point I am trying to make is not hurting a mens feels.  It is the fact that this is a biased gender stereotype that needs to stop.

I know exactly one person that has abuse children in my life, personal(I knew them and the family) and they were a women.  Does that mean I would not let my kids alone with a women?  NO that is ludicrous.   Absolutely investigate the person, and see if they are infact trust worthy, but do not base your whole perception on a person based soley on their gender.  This is what causes the hate to the whole transgender community as a whole. 

okits

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 13064
  • Location: Canada
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2016, 12:35:24 PM »
Our DD attends daycare at a centre and has a male teacher.  He is clearly her favourite, is terrific with the kids, and we love the diversity in the staff (not all one sex, multicultural).  We hope he'll be a teacher in her room next year.

You're older and male (not the usual for childcare workers, that I've seen), so you may need to put more than normal effort into helping the parents and the school community get to know you.  As a parent I'd value your previous teaching experience, the role model you set (men can be caregivers, school isn't feminine, etc.), and your enthusiasm.  Hopefully your community is open-minded enough that you can overcome the sexism.

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7946
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2016, 12:39:40 PM »
When I was a social worker working with abused kids we had to take them to the bathroom and help them ,etc and our agency never hired a male because of the fear of accusations by the kids. I wouldn't mind a male elementary teacher for my kids because they don't need help with the bathroom by that age but would not want a male pre-school teacher helping my little daughter in the bathroom. My kids are long grown so I am thinking to what Iould have done in the past.

Blonde Lawyer

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 762
    • My Student Loan Refi Story
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2016, 01:23:48 PM »
We need more men in "pink" professions to get true gender equality across the board.  We need to stop thinking "she" subconsciously when someone refers to a teacher and we need stop thinking "he" subconsciously when someone mentions a judge.

Here is where I am legitimately confused reading this thread.  There seem to be concerns about potty training and bathroom issues.  Is that just for female students? If you wouldn't want a male teacher helping your daughter in the bathroom would you have no problem with a female teacher helping your son in the bathroom? I don't have an issue with requesting same sex bathroom treatment if it makes the kid more comfortable but I'm not seeing why men would be the only problem there.  It would apply to both sexes because 1/2 the kids are boys and 1/2 are girls, right?

justajane

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2146
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2016, 01:39:31 PM »
We need more men in "pink" professions to get true gender equality across the board.  We need to stop thinking "she" subconsciously when someone refers to a teacher and we need stop thinking "he" subconsciously when someone mentions a judge.

This is so true. I was just at a dinner party last night, and someone was talking about a foreign ambassador friend of theirs. A female listening asked, "How long has he been in the position?" Well, the person rightfully called them on their gender bias, since the foreign ambassador is a woman. It was kindly done, however, so it didn't ruffle any feathers. 

marina

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2016, 01:48:18 PM »
My kid's preschool has a male teacher, and I've never had a second thought about it!  He is the lead teacher for the older group (pre-K) and is great with the kids and parents.  I'll be happy if she ends up in his group next year.

I really don't understand the concern at all.  Don't we want our kids to have various different kinds of people as 'parent figures' and role models in their lives?  It's not as if I am leaving her completely alone with a male stranger all day! (I would feel uncomfortable leaving her alone with any stranger all day, but once I know someone or he or she is vetted by an organization I trust, it's different.)

Also, I'm female and work in a male-dominated industry, and I'd hate to think that people are secretly wondering "what's her deal" in this way about me.   

dycker1978

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 768
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2016, 01:52:03 PM »
We need more men in "pink" professions to get true gender equality across the board.  We need to stop thinking "she" subconsciously when someone refers to a teacher and we need stop thinking "he" subconsciously when someone mentions a judge.

Here is where I am legitimately confused reading this thread.  There seem to be concerns about potty training and bathroom issues.  Is that just for female students? If you wouldn't want a male teacher helping your daughter in the bathroom would you have no problem with a female teacher helping your son in the bathroom? I don't have an issue with requesting same sex bathroom treatment if it makes the kid more comfortable but I'm not seeing why men would be the only problem there.  It would apply to both sexes because 1/2 the kids are boys and 1/2 are girls, right?

While I agree 100% with your post, I do just have to point out, that it is not 50% boy and 50% girls.  Gender is 100% non binary. Statistics show that anywhere between 10 and 20% of all people are born inter sexed, transgender, or gender queer in some range of the spectrum.  So given those numbers you would be looking at 40% boys - 40% girls and 20% undetermined. 

I know this is a little bit of a thread hi-jack.  But I need to point this out.  This binary thinking results in many instances of transphoiba.  With the Gender queer community seeing a suicide of 41% of the population, and aprox 2 in 10 kids being affected by this it is very very important to try and loose the gender norms/bias.  It is equally important to allow the children to know that this is OK. If one says boy and girls, it will legitimately leave 20% of the class saying, I am neither, I am both, or I don't know which I am.   

I know everyone here is saying, there is no way a kid in preschool knows...  That is not true.  My 13 YO told me at 3 that they were a boy not a girl.  Now he is 13.  Guess what, he is transgender.  Me and my SO thought that it was a phase at 3 and made him live as his birth gender(female).  It was not a phase, and we did far more harm than good to his mental health.  They know.  Trust your child.  Let them wear "boys" clothes, or be a tom boy.  There is no harm in this.  Gender queer is a thing.  They need to be validated as well.

Sorry for the hijack.  If any one want to discuss gender farther I am free by PM or we can start another thread.  I just ask that everything be civil, or I will ignore and block.

J Boogie

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1531
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2016, 03:03:29 PM »
My husband enjoys watching soccer, even children playing and even if our own sons aren't playing. Once he went to a 10 year old or so boy's soccer game by himself. Afterwards I told him that it probably wasn't a good idea for him to do it again. I worried that someone might figure out that he wasn't actually a parent to any of the kids playing and think he was a creep. No one would bat an eye if I did the same thing. I guess he could do it in the future, as long as he takes our boys with him.

I just had to single this out.  Not that there was anything wrong with what you said, it is a societal view that is wrong.  This would be frowned upon, but yet I know many males that coach soccer after their child has "graduated" to the older years of soccer.  There never seems to be any issue with a coach, just a bystander... weird world we live in.

Oh, I agree completely. I think it is very inconsistent that a middle aged man can't watch youth sports by himself.  There also seems to be an age limit when it becomes acceptable again. I'm guessing there are lots of middle aged men who go to our high school sporting events, often by themselves. I don't imagine that is a problem in the slightest. But 10 year olds? Yeah, that's viewed as weird. For high school events, it is interpreted as a communal event. The middle aged man might have attended the high school years ago and is a fan of the team still as an alumna.

Social perceptions are often not logical.

Just to provide an alternative viewpoint, high schoolers and even some middle schoolers can be pretty good at sports and most people would concede genuine entertainment value could be derived.  Due to the skill level of most 10 year olds, I don't think it's unreasonable to become somewhat suspicious of an unrelated grown man attending the game.

To put it as delicately as possible, I think we as a society can often fear the worst and instinctively understand that men have the capability to abuse in a way that women don't.  There's also far more instances where we've heard of men sexually abusing children than women.  I believe our aversion to placing trust in men being around our children alone is a rational and logical decision based on minimizing the possibility that the worst could happen.

I realize this type of thinking can be seen as offensive (especially when applied in a racial way, which I don't support) but let's be honest.  We're not going to put our children's safety on the line just to avoid giving offense to men.

With all that said, if they have a strict policy that one teacher can never be alone with students, and I met and felt this male teacher was trustworthy, I'd be ok with it.  (My wife wouldn't though)

I spent a year or so volunteering at an elementary school in a low income area.  I didn't think anything of it then, but I was frequently alone with kindergartners for pretty extended periods of time and all they knew about me is that I attended a college in the area.  It's fine because it was me, and I'm not a threat to kids, but I now see that situation as pretty alarming as a parent.

This is a false threat though.  the statistics are fed through media which happen to report the negative and blow things way out of proportion.  The point I am trying to make is not hurting a mens feels.  It is the fact that this is a biased gender stereotype that needs to stop.

I know exactly one person that has abuse children in my life, personal(I knew them and the family) and they were a women.  Does that mean I would not let my kids alone with a women?  NO that is ludicrous.   Absolutely investigate the person, and see if they are infact trust worthy, but do not base your whole perception on a person based soley on their gender.  This is what causes the hate to the whole transgender community as a whole.

https://victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/statistics-on-perpetrators-of-csa
https://victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-statistics

Regardless of what the media says, the statistics DO indicate that men are responsible for 94% of sexual abuse against girls and 86% of sexual abuse against boys.  And girls are victimized 4 times more frequently than boys, so overall men are responsible for about 92.4% of all sexual abuse.

Often the perpetrators HAVE been investigated for trustworthiness and trust has been extended to them.  The biggest misconception is that strangers pose a bigger threat than trusted adults.  60% of sexual abuse is by an adult in the child's social network.  So if I were to meet a man who would be spending significant time with my child, potentially unsupervised, although I might like them and find them trustworthy in many regards, that doesn't mean I will consider the threat negated. 

I of course don't base my whole perception of a person based on their gender, but as far as children's safety is concerned, why would a person choose to ignore the fact that a woman is over 10 times less likely to sexually abuse and incapable of the worst form of sexual abuse? 

Blonde Lawyer, I think these statistics at least in part address your confusion regarding why people prefer women helping their children, regardless of gender, in the bathroom.

Look, I support men teaching/mentoring/coaching young children.  I'm just presenting a logical perspective as to why people might prefer a woman over a man.  The risk is an increased chance of abuse, albeit a slight one, and the reward is positive male role model.  As a man who doesn't plan on leaving his wife, my children will already have at least one positive male role model in their life.  So all other things equal, I'd prefer a woman.  It wouldn't be a dealbreaker, and I wouldn't make any rude comments, but that would factor into a decision. 

dycker1978

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 768
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2016, 03:14:39 PM »
My husband enjoys watching soccer, even children playing and even if our own sons aren't playing. Once he went to a 10 year old or so boy's soccer game by himself. Afterwards I told him that it probably wasn't a good idea for him to do it again. I worried that someone might figure out that he wasn't actually a parent to any of the kids playing and think he was a creep. No one would bat an eye if I did the same thing. I guess he could do it in the future, as long as he takes our boys with him.

I just had to single this out.  Not that there was anything wrong with what you said, it is a societal view that is wrong.  This would be frowned upon, but yet I know many males that coach soccer after their child has "graduated" to the older years of soccer.  There never seems to be any issue with a coach, just a bystander... weird world we live in.

Oh, I agree completely. I think it is very inconsistent that a middle aged man can't watch youth sports by himself.  There also seems to be an age limit when it becomes acceptable again. I'm guessing there are lots of middle aged men who go to our high school sporting events, often by themselves. I don't imagine that is a problem in the slightest. But 10 year olds? Yeah, that's viewed as weird. For high school events, it is interpreted as a communal event. The middle aged man might have attended the high school years ago and is a fan of the team still as an alumna.

Social perceptions are often not logical.

Just to provide an alternative viewpoint, high schoolers and even some middle schoolers can be pretty good at sports and most people would concede genuine entertainment value could be derived.  Due to the skill level of most 10 year olds, I don't think it's unreasonable to become somewhat suspicious of an unrelated grown man attending the game.

To put it as delicately as possible, I think we as a society can often fear the worst and instinctively understand that men have the capability to abuse in a way that women don't.  There's also far more instances where we've heard of men sexually abusing children than women.  I believe our aversion to placing trust in men being around our children alone is a rational and logical decision based on minimizing the possibility that the worst could happen.

I realize this type of thinking can be seen as offensive (especially when applied in a racial way, which I don't support) but let's be honest.  We're not going to put our children's safety on the line just to avoid giving offense to men.

With all that said, if they have a strict policy that one teacher can never be alone with students, and I met and felt this male teacher was trustworthy, I'd be ok with it.  (My wife wouldn't though)

I spent a year or so volunteering at an elementary school in a low income area.  I didn't think anything of it then, but I was frequently alone with kindergartners for pretty extended periods of time and all they knew about me is that I attended a college in the area.  It's fine because it was me, and I'm not a threat to kids, but I now see that situation as pretty alarming as a parent.

This is a false threat though.  the statistics are fed through media which happen to report the negative and blow things way out of proportion.  The point I am trying to make is not hurting a mens feels.  It is the fact that this is a biased gender stereotype that needs to stop.

I know exactly one person that has abuse children in my life, personal(I knew them and the family) and they were a women.  Does that mean I would not let my kids alone with a women?  NO that is ludicrous.   Absolutely investigate the person, and see if they are infact trust worthy, but do not base your whole perception on a person based soley on their gender.  This is what causes the hate to the whole transgender community as a whole.

https://victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/statistics-on-perpetrators-of-csa
https://victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-statistics

Regardless of what the media says, the statistics DO indicate that men are responsible for 94% of sexual abuse against girls and 86% of sexual abuse against boys.  And girls are victimized 4 times more frequently than boys, so overall men are responsible for about 92.4% of all sexual abuse.

Often the perpetrators HAVE been investigated for trustworthiness and trust has been extended to them.  The biggest misconception is that strangers pose a bigger threat than trusted adults.  60% of sexual abuse is by an adult in the child's social network.  So if I were to meet a man who would be spending significant time with my child, potentially unsupervised, although I might like them and find them trustworthy in many regards, that doesn't mean I will consider the threat negated. 

I of course don't base my whole perception of a person based on their gender, but as far as children's safety is concerned, why would a person choose to ignore the fact that a woman is over 10 times less likely to sexually abuse and incapable of the worst form of sexual abuse? 

Blonde Lawyer, I think these statistics at least in part address your confusion regarding why people prefer women helping their children, regardless of gender, in the bathroom.

Look, I support men teaching/mentoring/coaching young children.  I'm just presenting a logical perspective as to why people might prefer a woman over a man.  The risk is an increased chance of abuse, albeit a slight one, and the reward is positive male role model.  As a man who doesn't plan on leaving his wife, my children will already have at least one positive male role model in their life.  So all other things equal, I'd prefer a woman.  It wouldn't be a dealbreaker, and I wouldn't make any rude comments, but that would factor into a decision.

This is statistics in this are reported.68% percent are unreported.  I would argue that a larger percentage of these unreported are women.  They are not reported because, well it was a woman.  There is more shame if a woman assaults some one.    Of course I cannot find evidence of this but it is worth noting.  I know that in the adult population, males would be less likely to report a female assailant...

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7946
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2016, 03:28:56 PM »
As someone has pointed out with the stats that mostly male sexually abuse kids and it is rarely done by a woman. That is the reason people would be concerned.

Jules13

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 243
    • January Girl
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2016, 03:47:17 PM »
Another in the camp that we had a male preschool teacher and loved him. We are still friends with him and his family. He started off in the youngest class, but eventually moved up to the pre-k class as he got tired of changing diapers. He's the only male teacher but I never heard anyone ever voice concern.

Noodle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2016, 04:42:41 PM »
You have gotten plenty of testimony that there are successful male early-childhood educators out there...

Keep in mind that the kind of school that would be prepared to hire a male teacher is the kind that you would want to be at anyway...that is to say one that has procedures and policies in place to keep everyone safe, not just relying on good will and good behavior from "the right kind of people." Children aren't just vulnerable to sexual abuse. but also physical and verbal abuse--which is much less connected to one gender or the other. A good school will be making sure that all staff, male and female are properly screened, trained, supervised, nobody is left alone with a child, etc

Plus, discriminating against male teachers on the basis of their gender would be illegal. While a small private nursery school might get away with it, a larger school or a public school system (our local schools have a large Pre-K system) would be putting themselves at risk for a lawsuit were they to rule out all male candidates.

So while the school at which your initial contact might not be prepared to hire a male teacher, I wouldn't rule out a post-FIRE direction based on one school or teacher...especially since you would be able to wait to find the right job as you don't need it to survive.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 05:55:36 PM by Noodle »

justajane

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2146
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2016, 05:20:54 PM »
Just to provide an alternative viewpoint, high schoolers and even some middle schoolers can be pretty good at sports and most people would concede genuine entertainment value could be derived.  Due to the skill level of most 10 year olds, I don't think it's unreasonable to become somewhat suspicious of an unrelated grown man attending the game.

But your assumption is that all men attend sporting events due to the skill of the players or that entertainment value can only be gained if the players are skilled. Would it make you uncomfortable or surprise you that a woman might want to attend a kindergarten soccer game because, well, little ones kicking around a ball aimlessly can be adorable? If so, why should it be any different for a man to just find childish exuberance entertaining to watch, even if they never score and there is no real competition?

I just hate that watching children has somehow become solely the domain of perverts in public consciousness.

spokey doke

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 514
  • Escaped from the ivory tower basement
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2016, 05:52:25 PM »
I have begun looking at the qualifications needed for the job, and I don't think that I would have trouble meeting them in my state, and I have taught (albeit at the college level) for 20 years.

Triple check on those qualifications, and if it involves taking any courses in a teacher education program, try taking one as a test...there is a strong anti-intellectual streak in much of teacher education, and most college faculty I know (including many in Education) couldn't stand it.

tobitonic

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 549
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2016, 06:58:53 PM »
Haven't read past the first post; will go back later. I'm a male preschool teacher. I'm also a bilingual preschool teacher, and am not Latino, which brings another bowl of fun into the mix. I love the kids and love teaching; that's never been the issue. There are definitely additional challenges. Most of them are due to the prejudices of the female staff; there's lots of talk about how we need more males in ECE, etc, but there's still often a general feeling that male teachers can't understand or nurture children as much as female ones. Similarly, neither I nor any of the other male teachers or assistants go in the female student bathroom, even though a.) we pass the same background checks as the female staff, b.) we're allowed without question in the male student bathroom, and c.) female staff are allowed unquestioned in both gender bathrooms.

I don't think there's any actual written policy against this, and I or any male staff member could probably bring a lawsuit against the district to get this changed, but you can imagine the ugliness that would surface in that (Why does Mr. Tobitonic want to get into the girls' bathroom so much? What's wrong with him? Etc). The funny thing about this is that the private daycare / childcare centers were usually far more progressive about this; there were group bathrooms and even though the majority of staff were female, there were never any unwritten rules about who could help who in the bathroom. So it's quite possible this sillyness varies from district to district and probably building to building.

Other examples of sillyness include the amount of heat I got for taking my kids out in 25 degree weather this winter, despite that being the district policy that *every* teacher is supposed to be following. Both parents and fellow staff complained about it, but I kept doing it, because kids benefit in so many ways from being outdoors year round. Ideally, this is something teachers would know, seeing as we're supposed to be advocates for dev. appropriate education. However, dev. appopriate practices are a passion of mine, and it's not necessarily one for every teacher (or perhaps most). Most of the teachers don't take their kids out below 45 or 50 degrees.

But yes, it's a public school job, and there's no question of classes being filled or nonsense like that; there are more kids than spaces. You just need to be passionate about what you're doing and have a thick skin. I love preschoolers, and there isn't a job in the world I'd rather be doing, which is a big part of why I'm teaching despite making much more money from running an educational blog. I know I make a difference in the lives of my kids every day I show up, and it's very meaningful work.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 07:01:24 PM by tobitonic »

use2betrix

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2501
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2016, 07:18:06 PM »
My husband enjoys watching soccer, even children playing and even if our own sons aren't playing. Once he went to a 10 year old or so boy's soccer game by himself. Afterwards I told him that it probably wasn't a good idea for him to do it again. I worried that someone might figure out that he wasn't actually a parent to any of the kids playing and think he was a creep. No one would bat an eye if I did the same thing. I guess he could do it in the future, as long as he takes our boys with him.

I just had to single this out.  Not that there was anything wrong with what you said, it is a societal view that is wrong.  This would be frowned upon, but yet I know many males that coach soccer after their child has "graduated" to the older years of soccer.  There never seems to be any issue with a coach, just a bystander... weird world we live in.

Oh, I agree completely. I think it is very inconsistent that a middle aged man can't watch youth sports by himself.  There also seems to be an age limit when it becomes acceptable again. I'm guessing there are lots of middle aged men who go to our high school sporting events, often by themselves. I don't imagine that is a problem in the slightest. But 10 year olds? Yeah, that's viewed as weird. For high school events, it is interpreted as a communal event. The middle aged man might have attended the high school years ago and is a fan of the team still as an alumna.

Social perceptions are often not logical.

Just to provide an alternative viewpoint, high schoolers and even some middle schoolers can be pretty good at sports and most people would concede genuine entertainment value could be derived.  Due to the skill level of most 10 year olds, I don't think it's unreasonable to become somewhat suspicious of an unrelated grown man attending the game.

To put it as delicately as possible, I think we as a society can often fear the worst and instinctively understand that men have the capability to abuse in a way that women don't.  There's also far more instances where we've heard of men sexually abusing children than women.  I believe our aversion to placing trust in men being around our children alone is a rational and logical decision based on minimizing the possibility that the worst could happen.

I realize this type of thinking can be seen as offensive (especially when applied in a racial way, which I don't support) but let's be honest.  We're not going to put our children's safety on the line just to avoid giving offense to men.

With all that said, if they have a strict policy that one teacher can never be alone with students, and I met and felt this male teacher was trustworthy, I'd be ok with it.  (My wife wouldn't though)

I spent a year or so volunteering at an elementary school in a low income area.  I didn't think anything of it then, but I was frequently alone with kindergartners for pretty extended periods of time and all they knew about me is that I attended a college in the area.  It's fine because it was me, and I'm not a threat to kids, but I now see that situation as pretty alarming as a parent.

This is a false threat though.  the statistics are fed through media which happen to report the negative and blow things way out of proportion.  The point I am trying to make is not hurting a mens feels.  It is the fact that this is a biased gender stereotype that needs to stop.

I know exactly one person that has abuse children in my life, personal(I knew them and the family) and they were a women.  Does that mean I would not let my kids alone with a women?  NO that is ludicrous.   Absolutely investigate the person, and see if they are infact trust worthy, but do not base your whole perception on a person based soley on their gender.  This is what causes the hate to the whole transgender community as a whole.

https://victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/statistics-on-perpetrators-of-csa
https://victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-statistics

Regardless of what the media says, the statistics DO indicate that men are responsible for 94% of sexual abuse against girls and 86% of sexual abuse against boys.  And girls are victimized 4 times more frequently than boys, so overall men are responsible for about 92.4% of all sexual abuse.

Often the perpetrators HAVE been investigated for trustworthiness and trust has been extended to them.  The biggest misconception is that strangers pose a bigger threat than trusted adults.  60% of sexual abuse is by an adult in the child's social network.  So if I were to meet a man who would be spending significant time with my child, potentially unsupervised, although I might like them and find them trustworthy in many regards, that doesn't mean I will consider the threat negated. 

I of course don't base my whole perception of a person based on their gender, but as far as children's safety is concerned, why would a person choose to ignore the fact that a woman is over 10 times less likely to sexually abuse and incapable of the worst form of sexual abuse? 

Blonde Lawyer, I think these statistics at least in part address your confusion regarding why people prefer women helping their children, regardless of gender, in the bathroom.

Look, I support men teaching/mentoring/coaching young children.  I'm just presenting a logical perspective as to why people might prefer a woman over a man.  The risk is an increased chance of abuse, albeit a slight one, and the reward is positive male role model.  As a man who doesn't plan on leaving his wife, my children will already have at least one positive male role model in their life.  So all other things equal, I'd prefer a woman.  It wouldn't be a dealbreaker, and I wouldn't make any rude comments, but that would factor into a decision.

If you want to use that same logic we can also find similar statistics regarding blacks vs whites in regards to crime and such. Does that mean we should treat blacks different?

No, in the same way we shouldn't treat men different in this circumstance.

Fact of the matter is, that being a man and taking interest in children WILL have negative thoughts going through SOME PEOPLES' minds. No different than bigots who are discriminatory towards certain races.

As I've gotten older I have noticed this and it's a really shitty feeling. The feeling when you have some small young kids next door and you like children and you'd like to just talk or mess with them when they're outside playing, but you don't because in a lot of parents minds they almost have an uneasy feeling seeing that. I'm 27 and married and love (most) kids, but it's sad that life has gotten to the point where if you're an adult man and show certain kids attention you may be viewed as a predator.

tobitonic

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 549
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2016, 07:22:06 PM »
Oh, and regarding the hiring end...you'll likely find it a bit easier than female teachers since you'll stick out as a male teacher; the issue, again, will be the prejudices you'll face from staff and parents once you're  hired. Regarding the educational end, I'd go for a master's degree in ECE if I were you; that was my approach, and I was able to get in and out with a degree in 2 years of full time work. It also gets you higher up the pay scale.

Some folks will tell you it's better to start with a bachelor's because districts won't hire you with a master's; I didn't find that to be true with myself or with most of the folks who got their masters' alongside me. However, we were also endorsed to teach ELLs, and I in particular learned Spanish so I could be a bilingual teacher, which pretty much gets you in wherever you want if you're applying to districts with significant Latino (or your given minority language) populations.

But yeah, I wouldn't spend a minute worrying about parents not wanting their kids in your class; for every parent who is biased enough to not want their child in your room, there will be nine more who want their spot.

The biggest thing to do is to make sure there's actually a demand for preschool teachers in your area, and to figure out how to get through school as quickly and cheaply as possible.

Mustache Fatty

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 56
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2016, 08:00:23 PM »
Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond.  I am heartened by the fact that so many have had experience with a male preschool teacher and have reported positive outcomes.  It was also very nice hearing from those that have hired men for these positions and even from some who have performed the job! 

Overall, I believe I will continue to explore this.  I tracked down and spoke with someone who once worked for my son's old preschool today, and she said that though this school rarely hires due to low turnover, she said that they could use substitute teachers and encouraged me to stop by and fill out an application.  This seems like a great way to get a feel for the job.  She also pointed me toward ways to acquire the specific training that this school (and other schools) require before hiring someone.  Interestingly, this training is taking place next month and is being hosted by the university for whom I currently work.  Finally, I asked about whether or not my being male would likely be a barrier, or a problem in any way, and she reiterated what many of you reported--that the school would assign another teacher to be in the same class with me (at least when just starting out)--so this would alleviate any concerns, at least in her opinion.  Interestingly, she also expressed that she felt like the staff at the school would particularly enjoy having a male there, citing various reasons why having an all female staff was less than ideal for her and some of the others (essentially she was agreeing with the poster above who suggested no diversity would be a "drag"). Overall, she was supportive of the idea, and she is good friends with one of my good friends, so I know she was telling me exactly what she thought and wasn't trying to be water anything down. 

So, I am going to at least check out the recommended training held at my school and fill out a substitute teacher application and see what happens.  At the very least I could give it a shot on a substitute basis here in my (very small) town.  I am pretty confident that parents around here would either know me or hear through the grapevine that I am a swell guy and would therefore feel comfortable with me.  Long term though, we are looking to sell our house and move to Florida, so I just want to know if teaching at a preschool is even something that I would enjoy as a FIREd sideline.  This might give me the opportunity to see for myself the good and bad.

Thanks again everyone for sharing your honest opinions!

Macrolide

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Location: PNW
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2016, 08:23:25 PM »
I would encourage you to go for it. We need people to push traditional gender roles like male nurses, high school girls on the wrestling team, and Mrs Doubtfire did. Ok not really the last one. Go into it with pride that you are molding societal perception and increasing opportunities for those that follow you. The price to you is the sad fact that some people will not want you there.

When my daughter was four, her daycare hired a new male teacher for her (fairly large) class that had two other female teachers as well. I didn’t think anything of it. My wife on the other hand was VERY uncomfortable with it. She works in mental health and every week has to listen to clients tell her detailed stories of how they were sexually molested as a child, often beginning in the four-six age range.  Also, maybe new parents with young kids don’t have their predator radar tuned very well yet – if that’s even possible.  Regardless, she didn’t even have to say anything. There were enough other parents who spoke up and he was gone after a week. This is in a progressive mid-sized Northwest city, by the way.

wepner

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 197
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Yokohama, Japan
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #47 on: March 08, 2016, 09:20:41 PM »
As I've gotten older I have noticed this and it's a really shitty feeling. The feeling when you have some small young kids next door and you like children and you'd like to just talk or mess with them when they're outside playing, but you don't because in a lot of parents minds they almost have an uneasy feeling seeing that. I'm 27 and married and love (most) kids, but it's sad that life has gotten to the point where if you're an adult man and show certain kids attention you may be viewed as a predator.

This thread is awesome, so much I wanted to respond too but this was pretty much what I was going to post. I am almost through my program to be an Elementary School Teacher I want to do something between 2nd and 4th grade and think kids are really fun(ny) and its interesting to see people that haven't had all of their originality and creativity beaten out of them yet.

I always wonder though if "society" thinks that guys don't enjoy spending time with kids because there are so many factors that make spending time with kids feel bad or risky or something somehow. Its a self-fulfilling prophecy.

randymarsh

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1369
  • Location: Denver
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #48 on: March 08, 2016, 09:41:23 PM »
Not understanding why it's "rational" to not want men around children but somehow not wanting your kids to be around black people (statistics say they commit the most murders after all) is offensive.

Which is it?

imustachemystash

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 407
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Male preschool teachers
« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2016, 09:48:30 PM »
My son has a male preschool teacher and I never had an opinion about it one way or another.  His assistant was a female so I think they worked out the toileting issues that way.  Good luck with your decision.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!