Male or Female

[Adventine]

Because it's such an odd question to ask without any kind of context.

[Kris]

Because it's such an odd question to ask without any kind of context.

Agreed, OP, my guess is that your way of asking probably affected the number of people participating more. Me, for example. It rubbed me the wrong way, enough that I won’t be recording my answer.

[Metalcat]

Because it's such an odd question to ask without any kind of context.

Agreed, OP, my guess is that your way of asking probably affected the number of people participating more. Me, for example. It rubbed me the wrong way, enough that I won’t be recording my answer.

Same, I didn't answer.

[Adventine]

Neither did I, even though it's obvious from my profile pic that I am a genderless cartoon character.

[Segare]

Because it's such an odd question to ask without any kind of context.

Agreed, OP, my guess is that your way of asking probably affected the number of people participating more. Me, for example. It rubbed me the wrong way, enough that I won’t be recording my answer.

Oops, I think I got it now. 

After I posted it I did think that maybe I should mention something about to let people feel they could choose their criteria. 

I don't know what would be the best way to ask. I guess as much as I am open to all this stuff I don't have it at the forefront of my brain and don't consider special ways to word things.  I guess I need to learn and adapt?

[Metalcat]

Because it's such an odd question to ask without any kind of context.

Agreed, OP, my guess is that your way of asking probably affected the number of people participating more. Me, for example. It rubbed me the wrong way, enough that I won’t be recording my answer.

Oops, I think I got it now. 

After I posted it I did think that maybe I should mention something about to let people feel they could choose their criteria. 

I don't know what would be the best way to ask. I guess as much as I am open to all this stuff I don't have it at the forefront of my brain and don't consider special ways to word things.  I guess I need to learn and adapt?

I would recommend that you participate more, ask questions with context, and let us get to know you before you start probing us about our personal details.

We're a community here, contrary to your experience in this thread, we're actually remarkably open and forthcoming, but we're not just a repository of personal information for strangers to pick from at will.

Contribute value to the community and we'll play along.

Just for your information though, yes, many of us are female here, and much of the time, you won't be able to tell from our writing style. I've been here for years and am still finding out that some prominent members are female and I never noticed.

Many of our most notable and most prolific members are female, so my advice would be that if you are reading something here, that you not assume either way what the person's gender is, and yes, assume that A LOT of women are reading anything you write.

[OtherJen]

Why does it matter?

I think that it is interesting if nothing else. When I first joined I expected the community to skew male pretty strongly but clearly I was wrong.

Why?

[ixtap]

I still don't understand why you (and I don't think it was the OP who used this example) would need to know if the poster had  uterus or not in discussing abortion.

[ericrugiero]

I still don't understand why you (and I don't think it was the OP who used this example) would need to know if the poster had  uterus or not in discussing abortion.

I agree with this.  But, I have heard several women state that they didn't want men to tell them what they could do with their bodies. 

[charis]

Why does it matter?

I think that it is interesting if nothing else. When I first joined I expected the community to skew male pretty strongly but clearly I was wrong.

Why?

This was answered above. Wall Street, etc

[ericrugiero]

I don’t think it matters one bit, but it is actually kinda interesting. I really appreciate that we can’t “tell” by our style of writing what gender we are, unless we disclose it. Anonymity is one of the reasons I really like this forum (though I am fine with disclosing my gender.)

It's pretty funny how people tend to assume, though less here than other places. I get accused of being male fairly regularly on Reddit and other places, though not nearly as often as my boyfriend gets accused of being white.

I have to admit that I've been guilty of assuming the majority of people here are male.  Maybe it's my personal bias, the title MR Money Mustache, or the fact that the stereotypical FIRE devotee is an engineer (largely male profession) or programmer (more balanced I think).  I've gradually noticed that more and more posters with gender neutral names are female so my perception has gradually changed to assume a more balanced population.  This poll shows a very even balance and perhaps skewing slightly female. 

It's great that this forum is so balanced in that way.  I enjoy having a diverse group interacting so we can get a wide range of perspectives. 

[Metalcat]

I don’t think it matters one bit, but it is actually kinda interesting. I really appreciate that we can’t “tell” by our style of writing what gender we are, unless we disclose it. Anonymity is one of the reasons I really like this forum (though I am fine with disclosing my gender.)

It's pretty funny how people tend to assume, though less here than other places. I get accused of being male fairly regularly on Reddit and other places, though not nearly as often as my boyfriend gets accused of being white.

I have to admit that I've been guilty of assuming the majority of people here are male.  Maybe it's my personal bias, the title MR Money Mustache, or the fact that the stereotypical FIRE devotee is an engineer (largely male profession) or programmer (more balanced I think).  I've gradually noticed that more and more posters with gender neutral names are female so my perception has gradually changed to assume a more balanced population.  This poll shows a very even balance and perhaps skewing slightly female. 

It's great that this forum is so balanced in that way.  I enjoy having a diverse group interacting so we can get a wide range of perspectives.

I have to say, as a woman who fits the demographic of this place to a "t", being a high earning STEM professional, I find it odd that my presence would be described as making this place "diverse" or contributing to a "wide range of perspectives".

I don't think this place is particularly well diversified. There is a large concentration of very similar behaving and very similar thinking people here. It's just that fitting in here doesn't fall along gender lines.

[ixtap]

I still don't understand why you (and I don't think it was the OP who used this example) would need to know if the poster had  uterus or not in discussing abortion.

I agree with this.  But, I have heard several women state that they didn't want men to tell them what they could do with their bodies.

Many men agree with that statement.

[Adventine]

MMM should just swoop in and demand a full census of this entire forum.

[Kris]

I still don't understand why you (and I don't think it was the OP who used this example) would need to know if the poster had  uterus or not in discussing abortion.

I agree with this.  But, I have heard several women state that they didn't want men to tell them what they could do with their bodies.

Many men agree with that statement.

+1.

[dhc]

I still don't understand why you (and I don't think it was the OP who used this example) would need to know if the poster had  uterus or not in discussing abortion.

I agree with this.  But, I have heard several women state that they didn't want men to tell them what they could do with their bodies.

Many men agree with that statement.

+1.

I certainly don't agree with it. If you wouldn't be comfortable saying something to someone with a uterus, you probably shouldn't be saying it to someone without one, either.

[ixtap]

I still don't understand why you (and I don't think it was the OP who used this example) would need to know if the poster had  uterus or not in discussing abortion.

I agree with this.  But, I have heard several women state that they didn't want men to tell them what they could do with their bodies.

Many men agree with that statement.

+1.

I certainly don't agree with it. If you wouldn't be comfortable saying something to someone with a uterus, you probably shouldn't be saying it to someone without one, either.

The statement that is being agreed to is "don't tell women what to do with their bodies." You may or may not agree, I just want be clear about what we are agreeing or disagreeing to, but I am more than happy to say that to anyone.

[Metalcat]

I still don't understand why you (and I don't think it was the OP who used this example) would need to know if the poster had  uterus or not in discussing abortion.

I agree with this.  But, I have heard several women state that they didn't want men to tell them what they could do with their bodies.

Many men agree with that statement.

+1.

I certainly don't agree with it. If you wouldn't be comfortable saying something to someone with a uterus, you probably shouldn't be saying it to someone without one, either.

The statement that is being agreed to is "don't tell women what to do with their bodies." You may or may not agree, I just want be clear about what we are agreeing or disagreeing to, but I am more than happy to say that to anyone.

I got super confused as to who was agreeing to what...

[2Birds1Stone]

Don't even care enough to see the results to vote.

I'm an agender alien.

[Villanelle]

Because it's such an odd question to ask without any kind of context.

Agreed, OP, my guess is that your way of asking probably affected the number of people participating more. Me, for example. It rubbed me the wrong way, enough that I won’t be recording my answer.

Same.  Although I'm going to basically give my answer now, when I add-- I suspect that the the people who found it off-putting are more likely to be female, and that will cause more women to not answer than men.  I could easily be wrong, but that would be my guess. 

[dang1]

it's so...binary, lol

[HPstache]

There was also a race poll a long time ago.  I think the most interesting poll I have ever seen around here is the Myers Briggs personality type poll... I've seen it a number of times and the percent INTJ is 30-35% of the forum which is a personality type that is only 2% or less of the general world population.  The MMM lifestyle attracts a very rare type of person!

[Zikoris]

There was also a race poll a long time ago.  I think the most interesting poll I have ever seen around here is the Myers Briggs personality type poll... I've seen it a number of times and the percent INTJ is 30-35% of the forum which is a personality type that is only 2% or less of the general world population.  The MMM lifestyle attracts a very rare type of person!

Interestingly, us INTJs are really well represented across FIRE as a whole - every forum I've ever been on where it was discussed, whether it was here, reddit, Facebook, or other forums, it was skewed heavily towards INTJs. I think it makes a lot of sense - being naturally introverted, analytical, math-oriented, and ambivalent towards social pressure is basically playing the financial game on Super Duper Easy Mode. Not saying other people can't, but I think for people like us it practically happens in the background without us having to life a finger to put in real effort, whereas other people often need to work quite hard at it.

[Adventine]

In both cases it shouldn't matter but in reality some of us are assuming the OPs question is to justify some kind of bias or stereotype.

This was also my line of thought, and also why I wanted more context from OP than "Just curious."

And the choice is binary! Male or female. No room for the spectrum of human identity.

[Just Joe]

To the OP stick around a couple of years. People will reveal more about themselves occasionally.

[Segare]

Back at work today. I didn't check much of anything online this weekend, including forums.
There are a few more threads I have been reading anything new and replying occasionally.
Oh, was wanting to reply to a few of the off topic ones, but I can't yet as a newbie, which I will say is probably for the better. Maybe double my restriction time.

[norajean]

I have noticed the Facebooks community groups I have joined seem to be about 90% posts from females. Why is that?

[jrhampt]

Why does it matter?

I think that it is interesting if nothing else. When I first joined I expected the community to skew male pretty strongly but clearly I was wrong.

A couple of posters have noted the same - what about the forum caused you to expect that?  I don't run in any other personal finance forums, so maybe they skew male? In my experience IRL, the women are more likely to be of the mustachian kind. So I'm more likely to assume any given poster is female.

BH is pretty male from what I can tell. Either that or all of the women there stay under cover like I did when I was a member because it's not the most comfortable place for women.

Is BH actually skewed male?  I am a member of both forums and I am female.  I notice male/female responses to consumer topics like favorite pants etc. and it has always seemed to me that there are probably more women there than you'd think at first.  It does seem that some of the oldest posters are male.

[Metalcat]

Why does it matter?

I think that it is interesting if nothing else. When I first joined I expected the community to skew male pretty strongly but clearly I was wrong.

A couple of posters have noted the same - what about the forum caused you to expect that?  I don't run in any other personal finance forums, so maybe they skew male? In my experience IRL, the women are more likely to be of the mustachian kind. So I'm more likely to assume any given poster is female.

BH is pretty male from what I can tell. Either that or all of the women there stay under cover like I did when I was a member because it's not the most comfortable place for women.

Is BH actually skewed male?  I am a member of both forums and I am female.  I notice male/female responses to consumer topics like favorite pants etc. and it has always seemed to me that there are probably more women there than you'd think at first.  It does seem that some of the oldest posters are male.

It could be that in my brief time there that most of the most active posters were male. There were a number of what I found to be overtly offensive threads about female spouses, which lead me to believe that there wasn't a strong female presence there as compared to here. Some of the shit I saw there would have been eviscerated here.

[honeybbq]

Why does it matter?

I think that it is interesting if nothing else. When I first joined I expected the community to skew male pretty strongly but clearly I was wrong.

A couple of posters have noted the same - what about the forum caused you to expect that?  I don't run in any other personal finance forums, so maybe they skew male? In my experience IRL, the women are more likely to be of the mustachian kind. So I'm more likely to assume any given poster is female.

BH is pretty male from what I can tell. Either that or all of the women there stay under cover like I did when I was a member because it's not the most comfortable place for women.

Precisely where I get called HE all the time. Sigh.  And most respondents assume the OP is also male (Why don't you make your wife stop spending??). Gross.

[Metalcat]

Why does it matter?

I think that it is interesting if nothing else. When I first joined I expected the community to skew male pretty strongly but clearly I was wrong.

A couple of posters have noted the same - what about the forum caused you to expect that?  I don't run in any other personal finance forums, so maybe they skew male? In my experience IRL, the women are more likely to be of the mustachian kind. So I'm more likely to assume any given poster is female.

BH is pretty male from what I can tell. Either that or all of the women there stay under cover like I did when I was a member because it's not the most comfortable place for women.

Precisely where I get called HE all the time. Sigh.  And most respondents assume the OP is also male (Why don't you make your wife stop spending??). Gross.

Yes, I was frequently called "sir" in passive aggressive responses to my comments, which were generally very, very poorly received there.

[Sibley]

Well, I'm clearly a cat. Named Sibley. Who happens be female. and deceased. miss my Sibby.

[mathlete]

Wow! That's incredibly even. Needless to say, that's great news.

[engineerjourney]

I was the one who did this poll waaaaaay back in 2014.  I mostly did it because I am a female engineer and I was under the impression (and I think a lot of people were at the time) that this was a mainly male crowd with the face punching and all (we were way more hardcore of a forum back then, haha) and there was a blog post around the time about how most MMMs were in the male dominated fields (like engineering and computer stuff).  The poll results surprised a lot of people if I remember right.  I did have an NA category for anyone who didn't want to say or didn't identity with the male/female category.  The forum was a lot smaller back then too and so there was a lot of participation percentage wise. 

Here is the old post for the snapshot in time back then
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/

[Adventine]

I was the one who did this poll waaaaaay back in 2014.  I mostly did it because I am a female engineer and I was under the impression (and I think a lot of people were at the time) that this was a mainly male crowd with the face punching and all (we were way more hardcore of a forum back then, haha) and there was a blog post around the time about how most MMMs were in the male dominated fields (like engineering and computer stuff).  The poll results surprised a lot of people if I remember right.  I did have an NA category for anyone who didn't want to say or didn't identity with the male/female category.  The forum was a lot smaller back then too and so there was a lot of participation percentage wise. 

Here is the old post for the snapshot in time back then
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/

I remember voting in that thread, and enjoying reading the discussion!

[norajean]

How do we know the poll results are valid? I would expect most men to ignore a thread like this and thus be vastly under counted.

[CodingHare]

I was the one who did this poll waaaaaay back in 2014.  I mostly did it because I am a female engineer and I was under the impression (and I think a lot of people were at the time) that this was a mainly male crowd with the face punching and all (we were way more hardcore of a forum back then, haha) and there was a blog post around the time about how most MMMs were in the male dominated fields (like engineering and computer stuff).  The poll results surprised a lot of people if I remember right.  I did have an NA category for anyone who didn't want to say or didn't identity with the male/female category.  The forum was a lot smaller back then too and so there was a lot of participation percentage wise. 

Here is the old post for the snapshot in time back then
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/

Ooh,t hanks for linking the old thread!  I look forward to browsing it.  I'm also a woman in engineering.  Financial independence always appealed to me even before I made the link to retiring early.  For me it really started as not wanting to be dependent on parents/partners for financial help ever again.

[obstinate]

How do we know the poll results are valid? I would expect most men to ignore a thread like this and thus be vastly under counted.

Self-selecting polls never provide much signal. But if it's correct that mustachianism interests both men and women that is cool.

[iris lily]

There was also a race poll a long time ago.  I think the most interesting poll I have ever seen around here is the Myers Briggs personality type poll... I've seen it a number of times and the percent INTJ is 30-35% of the forum which is a personality type that is only 2% or less of the general world population.  The MMM lifestyle attracts a very rare type of person!

Interestingly, us INTJs are really well represented across FIRE as a whole - every forum I've ever been on where it was discussed, whether it was here, reddit, Facebook, or other forums, it was skewed heavily towards INTJs. I think it makes a lot of sense - being naturally introverted, analytical, math-oriented, and ambivalent towards social pressure is basically playing the financial game on Super Duper Easy Mode. Not saying other people can't, but I think for people like us it practically happens in the background without us having to life a finger to put in real effort, whereas other people often need to work quite hard at it.

This is interesting analysis of INTJ and mustachean life.

[Daley]

I was raised in the "There are no girls on the internet" phase of forums.

Same, I've been operating under the assumption for the past three decades since usenet that all the men are men, all the women are also men, all the children are FBI agents, and everyone - man, woman, child, and FBI agent alike, is secretly just a dog or a cat with internet access.

After pressing the post button and turning off the computer, a face looks back from the black screen of the monitor inspiring the question, "Who this?"

The one who shares the house responds, "Who this? That's Daley! Daley." The news is jarring. After what seems like an eternity lost in thought, staring off at the horizon, I finally bring myself to respond to them with a single word.

"Help."

[soccerluvof4]

Definitely an odd poll. I would say being here many years its pretty easy to tell as mentioned by writing style, comments etc... pretty much who is who..... Bottom line I personally like engaging and getting the opinions of everyone that's civil and dont think ever had the need to ask " is that your perspective because your a Women"? or a Male? anyhow.............

[Daley]

I was raised in the "There are no girls on the internet" phase of forums.

Same, I've been operating under the assumption for the past three decades since usenet that all the men are men, all the women are also men, all the children are FBI agents, and everyone - man, woman, child, and FBI agent alike, is secretly just a dog or a cat with internet access.

After pressing the post button and turning off the computer, a face looks back from the black screen of the monitor inspiring the question, "Who this?"

The one who shares the house responds, "Who this? That's Daley! Daley." The news is jarring. After what seems like an eternity lost in thought, staring off at the horizon, I finally bring myself to respond to them with a single word.

"Help."

Ha! I always assume everyone online is really a nerdy pimply faced teenage boy living in their moms basement. Or a nerdy pimply faced 35 year old guy living in his moms basement. Now I will add FBI to the list.

And don't forget! Even they are just a dog.

[RetiredAt63]

I was raised in the "There are no girls on the internet" phase of forums.

Same, I've been operating under the assumption for the past three decades since usenet that all the men are men, all the women are also men, all the children are FBI agents, and everyone - man, woman, child, and FBI agent alike, is secretly just a dog or a cat with internet access.

After pressing the post button and turning off the computer, a face looks back from the black screen of the monitor inspiring the question, "Who this?"

The one who shares the house responds, "Who this? That's Daley! Daley." The news is jarring. After what seems like an eternity lost in thought, staring off at the horizon, I finally bring myself to respond to them with a single word.

"Help."

Ha! I always assume everyone online is really a nerdy pimply faced teenage boy living in their moms basement. Or a nerdy pimply faced 35 year old guy living in his moms basement. Now I will add FBI to the list.

And don't forget! Even they are just a dog.

Or a cat.

[Metalcat]

I was raised in the "There are no girls on the internet" phase of forums.

Same, I've been operating under the assumption for the past three decades since usenet that all the men are men, all the women are also men, all the children are FBI agents, and everyone - man, woman, child, and FBI agent alike, is secretly just a dog or a cat with internet access.

After pressing the post button and turning off the computer, a face looks back from the black screen of the monitor inspiring the question, "Who this?"

The one who shares the house responds, "Who this? That's Daley! Daley." The news is jarring. After what seems like an eternity lost in thought, staring off at the horizon, I finally bring myself to respond to them with a single word.

"Help."

Ha! I always assume everyone online is really a nerdy pimply faced teenage boy living in their moms basement. Or a nerdy pimply faced 35 year old guy living in his moms basement. Now I will add FBI to the list.

And don't forget! Even they are just a dog.

Or a cat.

I have always been up-front about being a cat.

[Paul der Krake]

I have always been up-front about being a cat.

Sorry but I have met many cats and they are never upfront about anything except how much they despise us.

[Daley]

I have always been up-front about being a cat.

Sorry but I have met many cats and they are never upfront about anything except how much they despise us.

Says the dead psychic octopus.

[Metalcat]

I have always been up-front about being a cat.

Sorry but I have met many cats and they are never upfront about anything except how much they despise us.

You have obviously spent zero time with Cornish Rex and Sphynx cats. VERY clear communicators, and the love is almost suffocating.