Author Topic: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.  (Read 7891 times)

Adam Zapple

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Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« on: February 19, 2018, 06:16:53 AM »
For those of you who live in awesome low cost of living areas:

Where do you live?
What is the median household income there?
What makes it so great?
What makes it not so great?

jlcnuke

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2018, 06:47:17 AM »
For those of you who live in awesome low cost of living areas:

Where do you live?
What is the median household income there?
What makes it so great?
What makes it not so great?

Well, I'm not in a "low" cost of living area, just an "average" cost of living area.

Quote
   
Our cost of living indices are based on a US average of 100. An amount below 100 means Acworth, Georgia is cheaper than the US average. A cost of living index above 100 means Acworth, Georgia is more expensive.

Acworth, Georgia cost of living is 101.60.

That said, compared to places that are high cost of living areas, we're much lower...

Where do you live?   
Acworth, Geogia

What is the median household income there?
Estimated median household income in 2016: $56,935

What makes it so great?
It's very affordable. It's close to Atlanta so all the "big city" stuff is close by if that's wanted. It's not far from the North Georgia Mountains if you want to get away to nature. It has all the standard suburb stuff you'd expect. Low crime rates. Nice lakes for summer fun.  My job is nearby....

What makes it not so great?
Traffic into the city can be terrible at times. The ocean isn't close by. The humidity can bother some people (I've spent most of my adult life in higher humidity environments so it doesn't bother me). My job is nearby....

FreshPrincess

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2018, 12:44:48 PM »
For those of you who live in awesome low cost of living areas:

Where do you live?
What is the median household income there?
What makes it so great?
What makes it not so great?

Where do you live? Columbus, Ohio
What is the median household income there? around 45k
What makes it so great? It's a little microcosm of the country - restaurants test new flavors, dishes, meals here - it's also home base for companies like Wendy's, the Limited, Nationwide and we are on the finals list for the new Amazon HQ .  It's the center of the state, so you're only a couple hours from a lake or another state.  The suburbs (where I actually am) are well established and I rarely have to leave my bubble.  The cost of a home is reasonable and there are still areas where you can get some decent land.  I love that we have four defined seasons, so you get to really appreciate winter/spring/summer/fall.  I think I read somewhere we were 10% below the National average cost of living.
What makes it not so great? I love it here.  No complaints.  I guess... no mountains?  But I've always kind of felt like my address is just where my mail is delivered.  And I can keep the cost of that low so I can go visit anywhere else I'd like.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 12:46:24 PM by M5C2K7S2013 »

Monkey Uncle

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2018, 05:11:44 AM »
Where do you live?  Bumfuck, WV (actually one of the nicer places in eastern WV - I would never live in a place like Huntington, Charleston, or Wheeling).

What is the median household income there?  $43,385

What makes it so great?  Rural small town; lots of scenic, wild mountains and public land for outdoor recreation; four-season climate; fresh ramps in the spring; generally nice, helpful people; and, of course, low cost of living (particularly property taxes).

What makes it not so great?  Most people have a very provincial/conservative outlook on life and politics; shitty schools; you have to drive an hour for small city amenities and three or four hours for big city amenities; it's one of the cloudiest places in the country; not much economic opportunity for those who are still working; large underclass of hopeless, drug-addicted young adults.

This one could be great or not so great depending on your point of view:  WV is one of the few states in the country where anyone over the age of 18 without a felony conviction can carry a concealed firearm with no permit or training of any sort.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 09:44:30 AM by Monkey Uncle »

Cranky

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2018, 05:21:31 AM »
Youngstown, Ohio

I don't know what the median income is, but it's not very high. Houses are cheap. There are lots of "nice" suburbs, and you can spend a lot on a giant fancy house if you want, but you can buy a pretty nice house for $150,000, and in my pleasant, working class neighborhood houses go for a lot less than that.

We've got nice parks and a great library system. We've got that 4 season climate so many people claim to like. We've got church pirogies and Fish Fry Fridays. The schools vary according to where you live, but I personally think that "good" schools is pretty much a code word for "middle class white kids", so there's that.

What do you want to do with yourself? I like where I live, but I'm just living my life here and I'm happy not to have to spend too much money to do that.

downsides - it's the Rust Belt. It's an hour to Pittsburgh or Cleveland if you want to go to Trader Joes or IKEA. OTOH, you aren't tied up in traffic around here.

Smevans

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2018, 09:09:38 AM »
Low cost of living compared to where I have previously lived (DC, Chicago, Portland)

Where do you live? Madison, WI

What is the median household income there? $53,000

What makes it so great? Lots and lots of beer. City is centered between two large lakes so it is beautiful. Liberal city in a conservative state. Bike friendly. Lots to do (ice fish, ice skate, kayak, swimming, biking, etc).

What makes it not so great? Cold in the winter. Pricier than most midwest cities. Has a great airport but not many direct flights to desirable locations.

Just Joe

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2018, 02:38:13 PM »
Look at Wikipedia for micropolitian areas. Lots of great options there. Cross reference the list of towns/cities to Wikipedia for the stats.

wenchsenior

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2018, 02:56:29 PM »
Low cost of living compared to where I have previously lived (DC, Chicago, Portland)

Where do you live? Madison, WI

What is the median household income there? $53,000

What makes it so great? Lots and lots of beer. City is centered between two large lakes so it is beautiful. Liberal city in a conservative state. Bike friendly. Lots to do (ice fish, ice skate, kayak, swimming, biking, etc).

What makes it not so great? Cold in the winter. Pricier than most midwest cities. Has a great airport but not many direct flights to desirable locations.

Seconded.  Not low cost compared with other comparable sized cities, but low cost for the amenities available.

CogentCap

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2018, 03:43:38 PM »
Lansing, Michigan--the capital city of Michigan.

Median household income is $34,833.

Awesome things:
Primarily the low cost of living and pleasant living environment.  Low crime.  Lots of parks, trees, natural reserves, lakes, and rivers all over the place.  You can find a nice two-bedroom house that rents for $600.  Our 3-bed has front yard, fenced back yard, deck, garage, attic and basement and we rent it for $850.  Buying is way, way cheaper: the house we're in now (for $850/mo) is worth about $65,000.  $200k will get you a fancy, current, landscaped 4-bed in a neighborhood with great schools.  The apartment complexes all have forests with walking trails behind them, or ponds with fountains, or a river view.

Food here is cheap (I'm talking a dozen eggs for $0.75 kind of cheap).  We have decent public transportation, bike lanes, and paved bike trails throughout the city.  Several nice colleges in the area, including big ole MSU next door. Four of the five great lakes are within a few hours drive (think "ocean sports without the sharks.")  Gorgeous Lake Michigan and enormous natural sand dunes are 1.5 hours west.  There's plenty of arts and culture around. 

Not Awesome Things: Lack of diversity.  There's some racial diversity, but mostly in self-segregated pockets.  As a POC myself, I feel that's overall pretty white here.  It's liberal though, and people are very friendly.  Lots of highly educated folk around.

We have winter, which is a dealbreaker for some.

Milizard

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2018, 08:05:32 PM »
Lansing, Michigan--the capital city of Michigan.

Median household income is $34,833.

Awesome things:
Primarily the low cost of living and pleasant living environment.  Low crime.  Lots of parks, trees, natural reserves, lakes, and rivers all over the place.  You can find a nice two-bedroom house that rents for $600.  Our 3-bed has front yard, fenced back yard, deck, garage, attic and basement and we rent it for $850.  Buying is way, way cheaper: the house we're in now (for $850/mo) is worth about $65,000.  $200k will get you a fancy, current, landscaped 4-bed in a neighborhood with great schools.  The apartment complexes all have forests with walking trails behind them, or ponds with fountains, or a river view.

Food here is cheap (I'm talking a dozen eggs for $0.75 kind of cheap).  We have decent public transportation, bike lanes, and paved bike trails throughout the city.  Several nice colleges in the area, including big ole MSU next door. Four of the five great lakes are within a few hours drive (think "ocean sports without the sharks.")  Gorgeous Lake Michigan and enormous natural sand dunes are 1.5 hours west.  There's plenty of arts and culture around. 

Not Awesome Things: Lack of diversity.  There's some racial diversity, but mostly in self-segregated pockets.  As a POC myself, I feel that's overall pretty white here.  It's liberal though, and people are very friendly.  Lots of highly educated folk around.

We have winter, which is a dealbreaker for some.

Hi there--from 1.5 hours west!  ;-P

I don't want to pinpoint my city exactly, because it is tiny, but surrounded by bigger cities, which I sometimes consider my city as well.  (As mentioned above, west of Lansing, on Lake Michigan.)  But certain amenities and definitely property taxes pertain only to the smaller, specific city.  The cost of living is fairly low, but property taxes are comparatively high due to the amenities in such a small city plus state government cutting down on revenue sharing to cities.

Median household income:  don't know.  2010 census says $37k household, but $47k family.  (WTF?  I never saw that separated out like that before.)  Most better jobs involve a 45 minute commute, but there are some good jobs closer, just not as plentiful.

What makes it so great:  Lake Michigan < 10 minutes away.  Apparently, a great place to kiteboard.  Fishing mecca, if you like that sort of thing.  Gorgeous sunsets, and being close to the lake subdues the weather a bit, even though it brings more lake effect snow.  The lake effect here falls a few inches at a time, though.  It's very pretty, actually! Winter sports complex with luge track, and other state parks with cross country skiing nearby, if you like that sort of thing.

My little town has small lots, but lots of little playgrounds and parks.  It was designed about a century ago, but that's a trend that city designers are trying to use for sustainability now--walkable, with houses closer together and shared greenspace. Geared towards raising families. Sidewalks, that people actually use, with maple trees lining the streets.  Safe, and 1 mile to large grocery stores, + a few smaller ones like Aldi.  Quiet.  Great school system that I'm in.  There's a terrible one nearby, though.  My town pretty much reflects the racial makeup ratios within the US, except for not as many Hispanics.  (Not saying lack of Hispanics is good--the diversity that's here is nice, though.  There are other cities nearby that are much more lopsided.)

Not so great:  The job market isn't as good as other nearby cities.  The way the state government has shifted taxation has exacerbated inequality.  My savings on the state income tax has been greatly overshadowed by the increased property taxes in my charming little town, which makes me feel like moving a town or 2 over.  The weather isn't as warm and sunny as I would prefer.  The local library never seems to have the particular non-fiction book I'm looking for.

eljefe-speaks

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2018, 09:44:35 AM »
For those of you who live in awesome low cost of living areas:

Where do you live?
What is the median household income there?
What makes it so great?
What makes it not so great?

Where do you live? Columbus, Ohio
What is the median household income there? around 45k
What makes it so great? It's a little microcosm of the country - restaurants test new flavors, dishes, meals here - it's also home base for companies like Wendy's, the Limited, Nationwide and we are on the finals list for the new Amazon HQ .  It's the center of the state, so you're only a couple hours from a lake or another state.  The suburbs (where I actually am) are well established and I rarely have to leave my bubble.  The cost of a home is reasonable and there are still areas where you can get some decent land.  I love that we have four defined seasons, so you get to really appreciate winter/spring/summer/fall.  I think I read somewhere we were 10% below the National average cost of living.
What makes it not so great? I love it here.  No complaints.  I guess... no mountains?  But I've always kind of felt like my address is just where my mail is delivered.  And I can keep the cost of that low so I can go visit anywhere else I'd like.

+ BUCKEYES!!!!!!!!!

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2018, 10:04:27 AM »
Where do you live?

Danielsville, GA (20 minutes north of beautiful Athens, GA)

What is the median household income there?

From Wikipedia: "The median income for a household in the county was $41,343 and the median income for a family was $49,713. Males had a median income of $37,963 versus $28,732 for females. The per capita income for the county was $18,975."

What makes it so great?

Our county is 100% rural, which is great if you're into that sort of thing. Rolling hills, hayfields, hardwood forests, rocky streams, and ZERO TRAFFIC. The Broad River on the eastern border of the county is one of the best locations for kayaking in the South. Athens, Georgia is a stone's throw from us and one of the best college towns in the country. We get season tickets to watch the Gym Dogs (gymnastics) for dirt cheap and go to a couple of football games each year. The city is filled with fantastic restaurants and has an active nightlife and widely respected local music scene (not that I get to enjoy that any more with 3 kids) We're about an hour and a half south of the Appalachians and endless miles of hiking trails. The weather is agreeable. Spring and fall are heavenly and last for months. Winters are mild, summers are brutal though.

What makes it not so great?

70% Republican. (I don't mind this honestly, but if you're a liberal who's really concerned about political self-sorting, then move 20 minutes south to Athens and it'll be 70% Democratic.)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 10:07:35 AM by Mississippi Mudstache »

Spiffy

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2018, 10:06:38 AM »
The local library never seems to have the particular non-fiction book I'm looking for.
Inter Library Loan is your friend. Ask for the ILL form from your librarian.

Milizard

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2018, 10:26:42 AM »
The local library never seems to have the particular non-fiction book I'm looking for.
Inter Library Loan is your friend. Ask for the ILL form from your librarian.

I have no patience, and often my search doesn't even register the book available through ILL, either.

I forgot to mention on my list:  Good thing about my area.  Traffic is not bad.  I get annoyed if I'm delayed 5 minutes.  (hah--guess that goes along with having no patience!)

Spiffy

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2018, 10:43:56 AM »
The local library never seems to have the particular non-fiction book I'm looking for.
Inter Library Loan is your friend. Ask for the ILL form from your librarian.

I have no patience, and often my search doesn't even register the book available through ILL, either.

I forgot to mention on my list:  Good thing about my area.  Traffic is not bad.  I get annoyed if I'm delayed 5 minutes.  (hah--guess that goes along with having no patience!)
That happens to me, too. I just smugly congratulate myself on my esoteric tastes and buy the book used on Amazon.

frontstepdesign

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2018, 11:09:43 AM »
We moved to MS deliberately seeking a LCOL...but also to opt-out of a lot of cultural 'keep up with the Joneses' aspects that we felt were sabotaging our financial responsibility in the midsize tech-oriented city we moved from.

A lot of folks are saying "this small town outside this larger place that has stuff."  I'd like to propose that you consider doing without a lot of said stuff, or making that "near" not-so-near.

We have no Target, no movie theater, no mid-range restaurant chains.  People feel differently about restaurants here - there's no pressure to be familiar with the latest one, or the latest offerings.  Nobody cares about what the marketers are pushing.  House parties are a Thing.
I feel no pressure to keep my car washed ($10 if you live in an apartment) as I did in the midsize city where my job is based.
We even have no thrift stores - so no 'well it's so cheap, I'll get it anyway' impulse purchases.  Likewise, I can't get sucked into the pretty design at Target on my lunch hour.

All of that 'civilization' is available, but 2 hours away (Memphis/Jackson/Oxford), so that forces us to deeply consider whether we actually need something.  It also makes mini-breaks really cheap, because our expectations are so low!

We do have all the basics, and it's walkable, and adorable, together with a small college campus.  People are surprisingly educated, in comparison to anywhere I've lived, honestly.  People read here.  We get some nice extras due to the campus - and the campus drives prices down for the one-of-a-kind restaurants...but also for EVERYTHING else.

I'm finding, that it's kind of like being on retreat - all the time.  The challenging side of that is that my self-starter muscles are necessarily getting stronger - there's no MeetUps, etc.  I'm still learning where to find friends.

We paid <$100K for our historic district house on an acre lot 3 blocks from the nearest watering hole.  I can walk to my yoga class, my spin gym, the library, church, the courthouse, the downtown shopping district, campus, grocery store, mechanic, pharmacy, post office.  At some point I'll fix my bike.  When we settle a bit more, I'll probably go weeks without firing up my car.  (might be worth washing it, then)  Right now, I am enjoying being able to run 5 errands < an hour.  Walmart carries all the specialty stuff I used to get at Earthfare/Whole Foods - and I can get out of there in 20 minutes.   We have at least six annual festivals, and people are enthusiastic for a dressed up golf cart parade.

DH is a hunter, and that's what the area is famous for - that and blues.  It's also quite artsy in other ways.  The big sky shows off amazing sunsets.  The people are CHARACTERS - it's like stepping into Southern Lit every time we go to a house party.  And tremendously kind - MS is called the Hospitality State, and I've never met its equal anywhere else in the South for graciousness.

The not so great - Mississippi Mud Pie is an attempt to associate something delicious to a real fact of life.  That dampness also means mosquitos.  The library doesn't have absolutely everything I want, but I do use ILL, and the various cities and the college allow cross-borrowing, which means I've bought less from Amazon than I did in MidSizeTechLand.

Another counter-intuitive thing - being in a "3rd world" of the country means there's very little competition for pretty good jobs here.  I recently heard of warehouse managers WHO CAN'T READ earning $45K.

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2018, 11:10:31 AM »
Youngstown, Ohio

I don't know what the median income is, but it's not very high. Houses are cheap. There are lots of "nice" suburbs, and you can spend a lot on a giant fancy house if you want, but you can buy a pretty nice house for $150,000, and in my pleasant, working class neighborhood houses go for a lot less than that.

We've got nice parks and a great library system. We've got that 4 season climate so many people claim to like. We've got church pirogies and Fish Fry Fridays. The schools vary according to where you live, but I personally think that "good" schools is pretty much a code word for "middle class white kids", so there's that.

What do you want to do with yourself? I like where I live, but I'm just living my life here and I'm happy not to have to spend too much money to do that.

downsides - it's the Rust Belt. It's an hour to Pittsburgh or Cleveland if you want to go to Trader Joes or IKEA. OTOH, you aren't tied up in traffic around here.

This pretty much sums up Youngstown. People were incredibly surprised about how livable Youngstown is when they visited for my wedding last year. Those who made it to the park were incredibly complimentary.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2018, 11:22:26 AM »
A lot of folks are saying "this small town outside this larger place that has stuff."  I'd like to propose that you consider doing without a lot of said stuff, or making that "near" not-so-near.

I'd be pretty happy living in a completely rural area, far from the influence of a larger city. I grew up in such a situation. My wife would be miserable. Our location is a happy compromise. I don't need the "stuff" that a larger city offers (though I do appreciate the good restaurants), but since some people do, it makes sense to include it as a benefit.

frontstepdesign

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2018, 11:53:37 AM »
A lot of folks are saying "this small town outside this larger place that has stuff."  I'd like to propose that you consider doing without a lot of said stuff, or making that "near" not-so-near.

I'd be pretty happy living in a completely rural area, far from the influence of a larger city. I grew up in such a situation. My wife would be miserable. Our location is a happy compromise. I don't need the "stuff" that a larger city offers (though I do appreciate the good restaurants), but since some people do, it makes sense to include it as a benefit.

So the house we lived in, outside the MidSizeTech city, was totally rural - 50 acres, septic, etc.  Had to have satellite internet, no interconnected libraries at all, drove 4 miles plus for anything at all, and little selection in stores available outside the city.  I was Not Happy - and we STILL got sucked into the 'keep up with the Jones' stuff from the city.  I learned from that experience the value of a small town a good distance from everywhere else.

Jrr85

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2018, 12:12:41 PM »
For those of you who live in awesome low cost of living areas:

Where do you live?
What is the median household income there?
What makes it so great?
What makes it not so great?

Some areas on my radar:

https://smartasset.com/mortgage/most-affordable-beach-towns-2017

Primarily Mississippi Gulf Coast towns or Pensacola out of this list:

What makes it so great? All are beach towns that have real economies so they have businesses geared to non-tourists (i.e., not everything is tourist price/quality).  They all have military bases, which I also think encourages more affordable options.  The Mississippi towns have casinos, which while not my thing, does result in some amenities that otherwise wouldn't be available in an area with a population that size.  Pensacola doesn't have the casinos but does have better beaches as far as the water being clear.  Mississippi towns are 45 minutes to 75 minutes from New Orleans, which is a place we like to visit.  People seem to be what you'd expect from a southern hospitality standpoint, but there don't seem to be the racial hangups you'd expect (Maybe because of the military presence breaking down barriers that otherwise would exist?)  No income tax in florida, pension/401k income not taxed in Mississippi.

What makes it not so great?  Hot and humid.  August is not great.  On the flip side, cold means nearing freezing.  None of the places are big enough to offer a lot of the free amenities you might get in a moderate sized city, but there are enough festivals that there is usually free live music going on somewhere.  Hurricanes and associated insurance. 

GU

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2018, 12:40:05 PM »
We moved to MS deliberately seeking a LCOL...but also to opt-out of a lot of cultural 'keep up with the Joneses' aspects that we felt were sabotaging our financial responsibility in the midsize tech-oriented city we moved from.

A lot of folks are saying "this small town outside this larger place that has stuff."  I'd like to propose that you consider doing without a lot of said stuff, or making that "near" not-so-near.

We have no Target, no movie theater, no mid-range restaurant chains.  People feel differently about restaurants here - there's no pressure to be familiar with the latest one, or the latest offerings.  Nobody cares about what the marketers are pushing.  House parties are a Thing.
I feel no pressure to keep my car washed ($10 if you live in an apartment) as I did in the midsize city where my job is based.
We even have no thrift stores - so no 'well it's so cheap, I'll get it anyway' impulse purchases.  Likewise, I can't get sucked into the pretty design at Target on my lunch hour.

All of that 'civilization' is available, but 2 hours away (Memphis/Jackson/Oxford), so that forces us to deeply consider whether we actually need something.  It also makes mini-breaks really cheap, because our expectations are so low!

We do have all the basics, and it's walkable, and adorable, together with a small college campus.  People are surprisingly educated, in comparison to anywhere I've lived, honestly.  People read here.  We get some nice extras due to the campus - and the campus drives prices down for the one-of-a-kind restaurants...but also for EVERYTHING else.

I'm finding, that it's kind of like being on retreat - all the time.  The challenging side of that is that my self-starter muscles are necessarily getting stronger - there's no MeetUps, etc.  I'm still learning where to find friends.

We paid <$100K for our historic district house on an acre lot 3 blocks from the nearest watering hole.  I can walk to my yoga class, my spin gym, the library, church, the courthouse, the downtown shopping district, campus, grocery store, mechanic, pharmacy, post office.  At some point I'll fix my bike.  When we settle a bit more, I'll probably go weeks without firing up my car.  (might be worth washing it, then)  Right now, I am enjoying being able to run 5 errands < an hour.  Walmart carries all the specialty stuff I used to get at Earthfare/Whole Foods - and I can get out of there in 20 minutes.   We have at least six annual festivals, and people are enthusiastic for a dressed up golf cart parade.

DH is a hunter, and that's what the area is famous for - that and blues.  It's also quite artsy in other ways.  The big sky shows off amazing sunsets.  The people are CHARACTERS - it's like stepping into Southern Lit every time we go to a house party.  And tremendously kind - MS is called the Hospitality State, and I've never met its equal anywhere else in the South for graciousness.

The not so great - Mississippi Mud Pie is an attempt to associate something delicious to a real fact of life.  That dampness also means mosquitos.  The library doesn't have absolutely everything I want, but I do use ILL, and the various cities and the college allow cross-borrowing, which means I've bought less from Amazon than I did in MidSizeTechLand.

Another counter-intuitive thing - being in a "3rd world" of the country means there's very little competition for pretty good jobs here.  I recently heard of warehouse managers WHO CAN'T READ earning $45K.

Are you from the South originally? I think there are lots of great places to live in the South, but I'm worried about fitting in as a Yankee. How is it for non-obnoxious Yankees in the South (especially small towns)?

poetdereves

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2018, 04:00:30 PM »
Where do you live?

South

What is the median household income there?

Median household income in “Southern town” is very high compared to the area. The low end of my research says $99,000 and the higher end closer to $111,000 per household. Housing can be on the high end because of the income, but there are gems to be had for sure. My wife and I got a newly remodeled 3/2 with a large backyard in one of the nicest neighborhoods for $180k. You can easily spend $300k+ to live in a McMansion if that is your style, but it is not necessary around here.

What makes it so great?

Now, I know people may not think that South has much to offer, but this is coming from a young guy that grew up surfing in Southern California and college and post-college years in the Rockies in Colorado. South has been awesome so far! My wife and I moved here for a bit of a change of pace in the past year and it has been a blast. I thought I may be making a sacrifice to try out a new place that might not have all of the outdoor amenities that I am used to having, but I was wrong. Our neighborhood connects to a network of trails that run for 15+ miles in all directions. Our house is less than two miles from a giant body of water where we can put in our kayaks right from the local park. I have come nowhere close to paddling all of it since there are more that 120 miles of shoreline and 5 multi day campsites. I love running and there is great trail running that branches out from around the reservoir and through the forest. The local running store puts on tons of races around the area and you can join a 5k almost every weekend or even train for ultramarathons and triathlons put on by various groups. If you want to go downtown there are some great cultural spots if you know where to look. There is an up and coming hipster area with coffee shops and great restaurants if you want to get out, or you can go to the new civil rights museum downtown. You can get to Memphis in two hours, New Orleans in two hours, and there's an international airport to take you anywhere else. I am actually surrounded by more educated, open minded people than I found in Colorado and there are many people my age (late 20's) that are making insane amounts of money for a place so cheap. I could say a ton more, but I think you get the gist. I could have never imagined enjoying a place like South, but it is a diamond in the rough.

What makes it not so great?

Comparing it to the West, South is a bit behind the times. Stereotypes reign true and there is still a lot of segregation and income inequality. South is full of poverty and the median income there is nearer to $30k and it is one of the most impoverished cities in the south. My wife and I work in fields that will help bridge the gap with income and education inequality, so it is a great place to be if you want to make a practical difference in people's lives as a tutor, mentor, or philanthropist. There are no large tech companies near by and South doesn't seem to want them. There are a lot of ways that South could see the assets they already have flourish (outdoor recreation, culture, music, etc.), but they don't seem to be interested yet. It also gets REALLY hot during the summers. 
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 01:56:05 PM by poetdereves »

startingsmall

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2018, 06:16:35 PM »
We moved to MS deliberately seeking a LCOL...but also to opt-out of a lot of cultural 'keep up with the Joneses' aspects that we felt were sabotaging our financial responsibility in the midsize tech-oriented city we moved from.

A lot of folks are saying "this small town outside this larger place that has stuff."  I'd like to propose that you consider doing without a lot of said stuff, or making that "near" not-so-near.

We have no Target, no movie theater, no mid-range restaurant chains.  People feel differently about restaurants here - there's no pressure to be familiar with the latest one, or the latest offerings.  Nobody cares about what the marketers are pushing.  House parties are a Thing.
I feel no pressure to keep my car washed ($10 if you live in an apartment) as I did in the midsize city where my job is based.
We even have no thrift stores - so no 'well it's so cheap, I'll get it anyway' impulse purchases.  Likewise, I can't get sucked into the pretty design at Target on my lunch hour.

All of that 'civilization' is available, but 2 hours away (Memphis/Jackson/Oxford), so that forces us to deeply consider whether we actually need something.  It also makes mini-breaks really cheap, because our expectations are so low!

We do have all the basics, and it's walkable, and adorable, together with a small college campus.  People are surprisingly educated, in comparison to anywhere I've lived, honestly.  People read here.  We get some nice extras due to the campus - and the campus drives prices down for the one-of-a-kind restaurants...but also for EVERYTHING else.

I'm finding, that it's kind of like being on retreat - all the time.  The challenging side of that is that my self-starter muscles are necessarily getting stronger - there's no MeetUps, etc.  I'm still learning where to find friends.

We paid <$100K for our historic district house on an acre lot 3 blocks from the nearest watering hole.  I can walk to my yoga class, my spin gym, the library, church, the courthouse, the downtown shopping district, campus, grocery store, mechanic, pharmacy, post office.  At some point I'll fix my bike.  When we settle a bit more, I'll probably go weeks without firing up my car.  (might be worth washing it, then)  Right now, I am enjoying being able to run 5 errands < an hour.  Walmart carries all the specialty stuff I used to get at Earthfare/Whole Foods - and I can get out of there in 20 minutes.   We have at least six annual festivals, and people are enthusiastic for a dressed up golf cart parade.

DH is a hunter, and that's what the area is famous for - that and blues.  It's also quite artsy in other ways.  The big sky shows off amazing sunsets.  The people are CHARACTERS - it's like stepping into Southern Lit every time we go to a house party.  And tremendously kind - MS is called the Hospitality State, and I've never met its equal anywhere else in the South for graciousness.

The not so great - Mississippi Mud Pie is an attempt to associate something delicious to a real fact of life.  That dampness also means mosquitos.  The library doesn't have absolutely everything I want, but I do use ILL, and the various cities and the college allow cross-borrowing, which means I've bought less from Amazon than I did in MidSizeTechLand.

Another counter-intuitive thing - being in a "3rd world" of the country means there's very little competition for pretty good jobs here.  I recently heard of warehouse managers WHO CAN'T READ earning $45K.

Are you from the South originally? I think there are lots of great places to live in the South, but I'm worried about fitting in as a Yankee. How is it for non-obnoxious Yankees in the South (especially small towns)?

I'm from Florida and have lived in NC for 11 years now. Live in a small town not too far from Charlotte, work in an even smaller town up towards the mountains. On a daily basis, clients say "you aren't from around here - what are you? some sorta Yankee?" Members of our church congregation (husband is a pastor) treat me with similar skepticism/disdain. My experience in the small-town south has not been a very positive one.

Hoping to get out someday... Ideally back to FL, but if not, at least a bigger city where I won't be the only non-native.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2018, 05:54:47 AM »

Are you from the South originally? I think there are lots of great places to live in the South, but I'm worried about fitting in as a Yankee. How is it for non-obnoxious Yankees in the South (especially small towns)?

I'm from Florida and have lived in NC for 11 years now. Live in a small town not too far from Charlotte, work in an even smaller town up towards the mountains. On a daily basis, clients say "you aren't from around here - what are you? some sorta Yankee?" Members of our church congregation (husband is a pastor) treat me with similar skepticism/disdain. My experience in the small-town south has not been a very positive one.

Hoping to get out someday... Ideally back to FL, but if not, at least a bigger city where I won't be the only non-native.

That's surprising to hear. I would expect people to ask where you're from if they hear that you have a distinctly non-Southern accent (I get the same question when I travel outside of the South), but I wouldn't expect you to be treated with disdain, at least not by the vast majority.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 05:56:49 AM by Mississippi Mudstache »

slackmax

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2018, 06:37:14 AM »
I don't want to say where I live. But..... it was great here 30 years ago when I moved in. Cheap houses. Cheap labor. No traffic. Plenty of stores to shop at. Not huge property taxes and utility bills.

Fast forward 15 years:  Everyone 'discovers' my Shangrila and decides they want a piece of it.   Result :  Property taxes double. Traffic horrendous and getting worse each year. Handyman wants $100 just to show up at your house.  Housing prices double or triple (good only if you're selling).   Overdevelopment everywhere.

And what really is galling is that the administrators always try to pitch the 'development' as a good thing for everyone! Taxes will go down since we will have more people paying in!   Not.   

Rant mode off.... thanks for listening.

 And no, I don't live in Colorado, but it seems they have the same problem out there !


slackmax

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2018, 06:59:11 AM »
Adding another post to counteract my above  complainypants rant.

It looks like there are lots of good cheap places to live still that have not yet, and possibly will not ever be overrun and thereby ruined by newcomers. 

I'm in a bedroom community that serves both NYC and Philly. Probably part of the overdevelopment  problem here.   

slackmax

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2018, 07:34:58 AM »
I am surprised about all of the love that Mississippi is getting! More love from me and my DW as well!

Where do you live?

Madison, MS (a suburb ten miles north of Jackson, MS with a population of about 26,000)

What is the median household income there?

Median household income in Madison is very high compared to the area. The low end of my research says $99,000 and the higher end closer to $111,000 per household. Housing can be on the high end because of the income, but there are gems to be had for sure. My wife and I got a newly remodeled 3/2 with a large backyard in one of the nicest neighborhoods for $180k. You can easily spend $300k+ to live in a McMansion if that is your style, but it is not necessary around here.

What makes it so great?

Now, I know people may not think that Mississippi has much to offer, but this is coming from a young guy that grew up surfing in Southern California and college and post-college years in the Rockies in Colorado. Mississippi has been awesome so far! My wife and I moved here for a bit of a change of pace in the past year and it has been a blast. I thought I may be making a sacrifice to try out a new place that might not have all of the outdoor amenities that I am used to having, but I was wrong. Our neighborhood connects to a network of trails that run for 15+ miles in all directions. Our house is less than two miles from the Ross Barnett Reservoir where we can put in our kayaks right from the local park. I have come nowhere close to paddling all of it since there are more that 120 miles of shoreline and 5 multi day campsites. I love running and there is great trail running that branches out from around the reservoir and through the forest. The local running store puts on tons of races around the area and you can join a 5k almost every weekend or even train for ultramarathons and triathlons put on by various groups. If you want to go downtown there are some great cultural spots if you know where to look. There is an up and coming hipster area called Fondren with coffee shops and great restaurants if you want to get out, or you can go to the new civil rights museum downtown. You can get to Memphis in two hours, New Orleans in two hours, and there's an international airport to take you anywhere else. I am actually surrounded by more educated, open minded people than I found in Colorado and there are many people my age (late 20's) that are making insane amounts of money for a place so cheap. I could say a ton more, but I think you get the gist. I could have never imagined enjoying a place like Mississippi, but it is a diamond in the rough.

What makes it not so great?

Comparing it to the West, Mississippi is a bit behind the times. Stereotypes reign true and there is still a lot of segregation and income inequality. Jackson is full of poverty and the median income there is nearer to $30k and it is one of the most impoverished cities in the south. My wife and I work in fields that will help bridge the gap with income and education inequality, so it is a great place to be if you want to make a practical difference in people's lives as a tutor, mentor, or philanthropist. There are no large tech companies near by and Mississippi doesn't seem to want them. There are a lot of ways that Mississippi could see the assets they already have flourish (outdoor recreation, culture, music, etc.), but they don't seem to be interested yet. It also gets REALLY hot during the summers.


Sounds ideal, except for the summer heat and humidity.  What jobs do those guys in their late 20's do there that earns them so much money, and how much do they make, please? 

poetdereves

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2018, 08:01:33 AM »


Sounds ideal, except for the summer heat and humidity.  What jobs do those guys in their late 20's do there that earns them so much money, and how much do they make, please?

Most of the people in my group of friends are highly educated, so they are paid fairly well. The closer group of friends I have consist of a therapist, a pharm sales rep, four pharmacists, two dentists, two MDs, a few medical office managers, an engineer, and a couple in IT. All of them are late 20's and early 30's. That probably isn't the norm around here, but it isn't rare either. Every one of those jobs (except two of the managers) are definitely into the six figures. Some of them have large student loans, and sadly many of them are spending like they own the world. My wife and I are working on paying for our schooling as we go so that when we finish we have post graduate degrees with no debt soon after, so that's how we explain our low spending to them at the moment. We haven't mentioned our desire to be FI yet, even though we are probably saving more than most of them. Hopefully we can influence a few around here or find some people more interested in saving and investing.

startingsmall

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2018, 08:22:39 AM »

Are you from the South originally? I think there are lots of great places to live in the South, but I'm worried about fitting in as a Yankee. How is it for non-obnoxious Yankees in the South (especially small towns)?

I'm from Florida and have lived in NC for 11 years now. Live in a small town not too far from Charlotte, work in an even smaller town up towards the mountains. On a daily basis, clients say "you aren't from around here - what are you? some sorta Yankee?" Members of our church congregation (husband is a pastor) treat me with similar skepticism/disdain. My experience in the small-town south has not been a very positive one.

Hoping to get out someday... Ideally back to FL, but if not, at least a bigger city where I won't be the only non-native.

That's surprising to hear. I would expect people to ask where you're from if they hear that you have a distinctly non-Southern accent (I get the same question when I travel outside of the South), but I wouldn't expect you to be treated with disdain, at least not by the vast majority.

The community in which I work and the one in which our church is located are both very small, with few newcomers and very, very low numbers of educated individuals. Facts - 85% Republican, only 10-15% have college degree, many people have never traveled out of the state. Lots of Confederate flag stuff everywhere. As an educated, liberal female, I really don't fit in here and there isn't much tolerance for that.

There are communities around here where I don't experience hostility, but the communities my work & church are located in are pretty sketchy.

Just Joe

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2018, 08:23:13 AM »
A lot of folks are saying "this small town outside this larger place that has stuff."  I'd like to propose that you consider doing without a lot of said stuff, or making that "near" not-so-near.

I'd be pretty happy living in a completely rural area, far from the influence of a larger city. I grew up in such a situation. My wife would be miserable. Our location is a happy compromise. I don't need the "stuff" that a larger city offers (though I do appreciate the good restaurants), but since some people do, it makes sense to include it as a benefit.

I've found as we have gotten older that we only frequent a small handful of establishments of various types. Pretty much ANY town will have those establishments. Anything really different we can order online or acquire during our quarterly visit to the big city.

Humidity and mosquitoes: you can get used to those things. You learn the coping mechanisms.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 08:31:37 AM by Just Joe »

Jrr85

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2018, 08:44:45 AM »
Are you from the South originally? I think there are lots of great places to live in the South, but I'm worried about fitting in as a Yankee. How is it for non-obnoxious Yankees in the South (especially small towns)?

I am from the south and have lived several places around the south.  Most of the places I've lived have had a decent number of "transplants" so they haven't been particularly insular.  The couple of places I have been that are exceptions, generally are very welcoming to outsiders, partly because the areas are struggling enough that they are happy for any newcomers to make their home there.

I have come across a few instances where some "yankees" have just been unable to adjust.  They have generally been from New England and have just been abrasive and unable to tone it down.  Not sure if it's cultural and related to being from New England or if the New England thing has been random chance and those people just happened to be ass holes.  Or maybe they were ass holes but people in new england were just more tolerant of their bluntness. 

startingsmall

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2018, 09:25:31 AM »
Are you from the South originally? I think there are lots of great places to live in the South, but I'm worried about fitting in as a Yankee. How is it for non-obnoxious Yankees in the South (especially small towns)?

I am from the south and have lived several places around the south.  Most of the places I've lived have had a decent number of "transplants" so they haven't been particularly insular.  The couple of places I have been that are exceptions, generally are very welcoming to outsiders, partly because the areas are struggling enough that they are happy for any newcomers to make their home there.


We did have a very good experience in the town we previously lived in (population ~30k), because there were some transplants there. The town we currently live in (pop. 10k) is less welcoming, but still not at all hostile. It's more just "homogenous" (for lack of a better word).... welcoming towards anyone who wears the right clothes, puts their kids in the right sports (football or cheerleading), etc. I don't find it super-welcoming because I can't find my niche here, and my husband is a raving introvert so he has no social group despite growing up in the town, but we do okay.

The towns I mentioned, though, are just totally different. Very poor (household income ~$30k), so just the fact that I'm a veterinarian marks me as an outlier. If I were an old white-guy veterinarian, it probably would be okay... but not so much for a young(ish) female. Very insular. Our church likes to boast of the fact that all of their members are related except for one couple that joined randomly ~20 yrs ago. It's a whole different world.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 09:27:25 AM by startingsmall »

Jrr85

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2018, 09:41:35 AM »
Are you from the South originally? I think there are lots of great places to live in the South, but I'm worried about fitting in as a Yankee. How is it for non-obnoxious Yankees in the South (especially small towns)?

I am from the south and have lived several places around the south.  Most of the places I've lived have had a decent number of "transplants" so they haven't been particularly insular.  The couple of places I have been that are exceptions, generally are very welcoming to outsiders, partly because the areas are struggling enough that they are happy for any newcomers to make their home there.


We did have a very good experience in the town we previously lived in (population ~30k), because there were some transplants there. The town we currently live in (pop. 10k) is less welcoming, but still not at all hostile. It's more just "homogenous" (for lack of a better word).... welcoming towards anyone who wears the right clothes, puts their kids in the right sports (football or cheerleading), etc. I don't find it super-welcoming because I can't find my niche here, and my husband is a raving introvert so he has no social group despite growing up in the town, but we do okay.

The towns I mentioned, though, are just totally different. Very poor (household income ~$30k), so just the fact that I'm a veterinarian marks me as an outlier. If I were an old white-guy veterinarian, it probably would be okay... but not so much for a young(ish) female. Very insular. Our church likes to boast of the fact that all of their members are related except for one couple that joined randomly ~20 yrs ago. It's a whole different world.

That sounds completely believable because 10k is just an entire different ball game.  There's just not enough population to have much variation.  In my very limited experience, 40-50k seems to be the minimum size town to allow an "outsider" that is not "cut from the same cloth" to be sure they can come in and have a niche where they fit in.  Certainly can happen with smaller towns, but more of a crap shoot.  Not that I have any expertise, but having lived in some small towns (smallest few being ~20k), I would not recommend anybody relocate to a small town unless they had a good reason to think they woudl find a social group or unless they just don't need much of a social group outside of their direct family to thrive.   

Laserjet3051

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2018, 09:42:04 AM »
Doesn't get much cheaper than Slab City, CA.....if you do it right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slab_City,_California

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2018, 09:56:15 AM »
Are you from the South originally? I think there are lots of great places to live in the South, but I'm worried about fitting in as a Yankee. How is it for non-obnoxious Yankees in the South (especially small towns)?

I am from the south and have lived several places around the south.  Most of the places I've lived have had a decent number of "transplants" so they haven't been particularly insular.  The couple of places I have been that are exceptions, generally are very welcoming to outsiders, partly because the areas are struggling enough that they are happy for any newcomers to make their home there.


We did have a very good experience in the town we previously lived in (population ~30k), because there were some transplants there. The town we currently live in (pop. 10k) is less welcoming, but still not at all hostile. It's more just "homogenous" (for lack of a better word).... welcoming towards anyone who wears the right clothes, puts their kids in the right sports (football or cheerleading), etc. I don't find it super-welcoming because I can't find my niche here, and my husband is a raving introvert so he has no social group despite growing up in the town, but we do okay.

The towns I mentioned, though, are just totally different. Very poor (household income ~$30k), so just the fact that I'm a veterinarian marks me as an outlier. If I were an old white-guy veterinarian, it probably would be okay... but not so much for a young(ish) female. Very insular. Our church likes to boast of the fact that all of their members are related except for one couple that joined randomly ~20 yrs ago. It's a whole different world.

That does sound like a difficult situation. Our city is tiny (585 people), and our entire county has fewer than 30,000 residents, but most of the county's residents work in nearby Athens, which has the state's flagship university and a bustling community of >100,000 people. So northern transplants, liberals, immigrants, and other various groups that don't fit the homogenous white southern Republican stereotype are perfectly normal here and don't catch any grief. I have a close group of friends in the county who are all recent graduates of the University, and we mostly fall into the quasi-hippie homesteader mold. We all have chickens and gardens and workshops and forests where we let our kids fun free. Honestly, I'm of the opinion that it's difficult to be happy anywhere if you don't have good friends.

tyrannostache

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2018, 11:37:53 AM »
Montana!

I live in one of Montana's "big" cities (population between 30-50K)
Median income is about $50K.

What makes it great: Access to the outdoors. From my front door, I can walk to a mountain trailhead in less than 5 minutes. When it isn't -10, I can walk to a lovely downtown with my kids, and biking is starting to get more popular as a mode of transport (not just as recreation). Summer is full of free festivals in town. We actually have some pretty great local theater troupes, music, and events for kids. The cheap ski hill is a 20-minute drive. There are world-class ski resorts within 1-3 hours. My favorite wilderness area is a 2-hour drive away, and my second and third and fourth favorites are also close by. Home prices remain pretty reasonable, though they seem to be creeping up. Though there are a lot of insular types, I have met quite a few lovely people since moving here a few years ago. All politics are local. I'm not very politically active, and I've chatted with one of our senators twice (though I'm avoiding our representative--don't want to get choked out). People in general care very much about protecting the environment, though there's definitely a powerful mine-baby-mine component.

Not so great: Public services suck. It's very homogeneous culturally. It can be hard to meet new people. Restaurants are limited. It's cold in winter and likely to be on fire in the summer. Since the population is so small, it's really hard to find decent used specialty items (I spent 6 months stalking craigslist/classifieds/facebook for a squat rack to no avail).

I'm slowly building my community here. Since many people have been living here for decades, it can be tough for an introvert to break in. One of the best things is that pretty much everyone is up for a hike. Love of the outdoors is one of the common denominators that keeps people here. Even my book club group takes a yearly backpacking trip.

frontstepdesign

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2018, 12:16:17 PM »
We moved to MS deliberately seeking a LCOL...but also to opt-out of a lot of cultural 'keep up with the Joneses' aspects that we felt were sabotaging our financial responsibility in the midsize tech-oriented city we moved from.
...

Are you from the South originally? I think there are lots of great places to live in the South, but I'm worried about fitting in as a Yankee. How is it for non-obnoxious Yankees in the South (especially small towns)?

That's a complicated answer - I was raised in the South since age 3...by two intellectuals, one an Army brat, and the other second-gen Eastern European immigrant, from Cleveland Ohio...definitely a Midwesterner.  (I discern that Yankees are a slightly different species.)  But I attended public school, ate my share of grits, and picked up some social graces from my peers and southern lit.

The social graces seem to be much more important than "wher'your'people from?"...because as soon as you move, even state to state, that hometown advantage goes away.  People do notice that my accent "isn't from 'round here" - but that's my family's doing.  When mom heard me prounounce "ray-d", "theayre", and "clayay" my first week of preschool in Georgia, she nipped that acquisition in the bud, because in 1980, there weren't enough successful folks with southern accents yet to fight the stereotype of intellectual inferiority.  Now of course, things are different, the South has risen again (so to speak, economically and culturally), but she couldn't have known that would happen.

This is the most congealed small town I've lived in since that one outside Atlanta (now long absorbed, 6 mil people ago), and it was counted as 12K last census.  I've lived in smaller that were just sections of highway...but most of my life I've been in the 30-50K range, in shooting distance of the 1mil+ city.


Comparing it to the West, Mississippi is a bit behind the times. Stereotypes reign true and there is still a lot of segregation and income inequality. Jackson is full of poverty and the median income there is nearer to $30k and it is one of the most impoverished cities in the south. My wife and I work in fields that will help bridge the gap with income and education inequality, so it is a great place to be if you want to make a practical difference in people's lives as a tutor, mentor, or philanthropist. There are no large tech companies near by and Mississippi doesn't seem to want them. There are a lot of ways that Mississippi could see the assets they already have flourish (outdoor recreation, culture, music, etc.), but they don't seem to be interested yet. It also gets REALLY hot during the summers. 

I can see how in comparison to California (which seems a bit mythical to me, raised in small places in the South where all this stuff above is a constant nearly everywhere) MS feels a bit behind.  There are some interesting tech islands south of the Mason-Dixon: Huntsville AL is definitely one, Fort Walton Beach FL, parts of Atlanta, of course the research triangle in Carolina.  My parents and I (eventually) landed in tech, so it's been interesting to watch the takeup rate as us nerds are becoming more visible.

We chose MS deliberately because it is both behind ...and ahead in other respects - the middle class is already smaller than either the upper or lower classes.  I'm led to believe this barbell distribution is coming for other parts of the country, and I figured I'd go ahead and figure out how to make the shift.  Many businesses are "just big enough" and use technology in interesting ways to make this optimization possible.  We also like parts of the "behind" - the way people treat each other is mostly lovely and charming.  Kind of like when you travel to non-large-city parts of Europe...they don't have everything you're used to, but you find you might substitute with the local way, and that's nice too.

Regarding making the deliberate move, when you feel you might not fit in:
We have had success when we respect the local way.  Drop your expectations, do as the Romans do.  Try that church that seems frighteningly conservative...especially the church suppers.  (You won't have to keep going, but church is THE WAY to meet people in the Bible Belt until you can find other interests.)  Hire locals to fix your stuff. Volunteer your time and treasure for the efforts they're trying to get started.  Wait a while to volunteer your own ideas, though.  Figure out what clubs people belong to, what Good Causes have the charity ball, etc.

We're learning to be sensitive to cliques that are based on small differences.  I seem to be a magnet to folks who have moved in, and their stories are interesting.  There's a "cocktail house party" crowd here, and a mostly separate "bonfire and beer" crowd.  Early on we met a group that likes to go out to eat, but they eschew the regionally famous Delta Supper Club as being patronized by "those rich folks from Madison" (wink at @poetdereves) - nevermind that they'll drop a couple hundred in a night every week.  I've found my gym to be a great place to meet folks...but not much overlap with the eat-out crowd.  People are tribal.  Part of this adventure seems to be throwing ourselves against this set of tribes and figuring out who we are.

Our church likes to boast of the fact that all of their members are related except for one couple that joined randomly ~20 yrs ago. It's a whole different world.

That was true of the 'highway strip' town we lived in last...we finally figured out after a year that we needed to swap churches.  Far better experience in a slightly larger church, that was comprised of folks more like us - landowners, some education, some business folks.  I hated the catechism, but stuck it out for the people.

GU

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2018, 04:21:34 PM »
We moved to MS deliberately seeking a LCOL...but also to opt-out of a lot of cultural 'keep up with the Joneses' aspects that we felt were sabotaging our financial responsibility in the midsize tech-oriented city we moved from.
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Are you from the South originally? I think there are lots of great places to live in the South, but I'm worried about fitting in as a Yankee. How is it for non-obnoxious Yankees in the South (especially small towns)?



Thanks for the reply.  By "yankee" I meant "not from the South."  Not necessarily from the Northeast.

Carrie

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Re: Low cost of living areas to check out in the U.S.
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2018, 08:31:25 PM »
Another bit about MS - it is in the top ten for retirement friendly.  Besides low COL,401k and qualified retirement plans aren't taxed, nor SS, or pensions. Property taxes are discounted for (typ) retirement age homeowners.