The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: ASquared on January 21, 2019, 09:32:40 PM
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Looking for somewhere to move long term. Right now we are in Southern CA. It's expensive. It's crowded. We like it alright, but we don't love it and aren't particularly attached. We have looked at so many different cities and just can't ever make a decision. Jobs don't matter (remote work). Most places are less expensive than our current situation, so that's a nice plus too.
Wants:
medium sized, or smaller city with close access to a larger city nearby (decent airport access)
walkable community or close to it would be amazing
temperate climate would be amazing, but we understand how spoiled we are currently
nice outdoor areas, hiking/biking/etc
somewhat liberal would be nice
Currently considering US locations only.
Go!
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Live and work in San Diego, CA currently. Love it ! But long term we are looking at Utah or Colorado. Or if we can make/save enough then we would stay in SD for the long haul. The area / weather is phenomenal in all regards. Our dream home here would cost $1.4MM in 2019 dollars.
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Live and work in San Diego, CA currently. Love it ! But long term we are looking at Utah or Colorado. Or if we can make/save enough then we would stay in SD for the long haul. The area / weather is phenomenal in all regards. Our dream home here would cost $1.4MM in 2019 dollars.
Hmm what part of SD are you in? And agree, parts of UT and CO are nice for sure. I don't know enough about specific communities though.
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You can find most of that in midwest college towns if you drop the temperate requirement. The town itself will be liberal, but the farmland surrounding it will be conservative. You'll probably have a red representative. Which particular state will pick if you're in red, blue, or purple territory at the state level.
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You can find most of that in midwest college towns if you drop the temperate requirement. The town itself will be liberal, but the farmland surrounding it will be conservative. You'll probably have a red representative. Which particular state will pick if you're in red, blue, or purple territory at the state level.
I really wouldn't have considered that! Thanks for the new idea.
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You can find most of that in midwest college towns if you drop the temperate requirement. The town itself will be liberal, but the farmland surrounding it will be conservative. You'll probably have a red representative. Which particular state will pick if you're in red, blue, or purple territory at the state level.
I really wouldn't have considered that! Thanks for the new idea.
I'm a west coaster living in one of those midwest college towns. Super liberal (but yes my congress is red), super walkable, decent access to big airports (with a couple hour drive), cheap as hell, great local scene (music, food, arts), but yeah the weather is intense. I think it was single digits yesterday with the wind chill. As a plus you can own your own palace for dirt cheap and stay inside when the weather is god awful.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_micropolitan_statistical_areas
Sort based on your preference for politics, climate and university town. I highly recommend a small university town with a bigger city within an easy drive.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_micropolitan_statistical_areas
Sort based on your preference for politics, climate and university town. I highly recommend a small university town with a bigger city within an easy drive.
Wow, this is great! Thank you.
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You can find most of that in midwest college towns if you drop the temperate requirement. The town itself will be liberal, but the farmland surrounding it will be conservative. You'll probably have a red representative. Which particular state will pick if you're in red, blue, or purple territory at the state level.
I really wouldn't have considered that! Thanks for the new idea.
I'm a west coaster living in one of those midwest college towns. Super liberal (but yes my congress is red), super walkable, decent access to big airports (with a couple hour drive), cheap as hell, great local scene (music, food, arts), but yeah the weather is intense. I think it was single digits yesterday with the wind chill. As a plus you can own your own palace for dirt cheap and stay inside when the weather is god awful.
My guess is that we are in the same town. My wife and I spent 19 years in the Bay Area, then 5 years in Dallas, and have now been in a medium size town in the Midwest for the past 15 years. It's extremely liberal, very walkable, very affordable, has a very strong job market with a growing focus on tech, and offers an incredible variety of activities.
I don't know if you have kids or not, but based on your username it seems so. The schools here are phenomenal and many of the Midwest states consistently rank among the highest test scores nationally. And the colleges are very good and affordable.
The outdoor activities are off the charts. My sons fish, hunt, hike, and camp. All those activities are very accessible.
And one last thought is that after dealing with traffic on the West Coast and in Dallas, it's extremely refreshing to see nothing but wide, open roads. I would be hard pressed to think of any time where we were stressed about traffic, or stuck in jams.
Good luck with your search.
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Madison, WI outskirts would be a great town for you if you don't mind the winters and are willing to get into winter activities. Great College town, Very low cost of living. Have everything you need as far as Jobs to entertainment and the City is predicted to pass up Milwaukee which is only 60 miles away in population. Very Liberal and Wisconsin School system is among the best.
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Look into Madison, WI, if you can handle the winters. It's a great (and fun) town. Also, you could check on Rochester, MN, if you don't mind an hour or so drive a hub airport.
I also loved Tucson, and am thinking of trying to move back, but it IS large and has grown exponentially since I left about 20 years ago. It just never felt big to me b/c I worked all over the city and knew it very well.
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Portland Maine is pretty great. I go visit my parents there and love it. I have to admit that they do leave for the winters, so that is a consideration. But otherwise, perfect size, great food, on the water, beautiful architecture, beaches nearby. I totally fantasize about retiring there.
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I would look at Pullman, WA, I live a bit north of there on the ID side of the border. Pullman is more purple, since it is a college/university town in sea of red. Moscow, ID is right across the border, so two large universities bring a lot to the area. No income tax in WA. 1.5 hrs to Spokane international airport. Populations of 30k+ in Pullman and 25k in Moscow.
Winters are much more mild than anything in the midwest. Not sure on walk-ability, but biking access appears to be ok in town. Outdoor opportunities are endless. I really like the palouse prairie which has easy hiking and biking, more intense mountain biking is nearby, and there is amazing access to rivers, lakes (a bit further to lakes), desert, canyons, mountains, roadless areas, and wilderness areas for hiking and backpacking. You would never finish visiting all of the outdoors that are within a 3 hr drive of Pullman.
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You might consider some of the older, close-in suburbs of Washington DC. Silver Spring and Hyattsville in MD come to mind. They're not cheap except by SoCal standards, but otherwise I think they tick all your boxes: walkable, great arts scene, easy transit access to downtown and the airport (and Amtrak), lots of outdoor activities nearby (hiking, camping, beach, sailing, canoeing, hunting), politically liberal, much milder winters than the Midwest.
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We just moved to Roanoke VA. Not very bikeable/walkable, but it ticks most of your other boxes. It is growing by leaps and bounds due to many factors, but one is mountain biking and hiking. The Appalachian trail is close by and McAfee's Knob is one of the most iconic vistas on the entire trail and its a short drive from Roanoke. There are lots of new breweries in town and nearby if that is of interest.
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McMinnville or Independence, Oregon. Small town America, some mix of red and blue.
Bend Oregon if you can afford it.
Bellingham Washington is wonderful.
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Live and work in San Diego, CA currently. Love it ! But long term we are looking at Utah or Colorado. Or if we can make/save enough then we would stay in SD for the long haul. The area / weather is phenomenal in all regards. Our dream home here would cost $1.4MM in 2019 dollars.
Hmm what part of SD are you in? And agree, parts of UT and CO are nice for sure. I don't know enough about specific communities though.
Live on the outskirts of La Jolla currently, rent a 2 bed SFH for $2700. Desired location is up in Carmel valley / sorrento valley / pacific highlands ranch. Probably would not buy unless our family crosses 400K income + guaranteed stable work . What we rent is fine for now. For us, we are constantly tempted to move up to the Bay Area to maximize income vs staying in fabulous SD and “retiring-early” at current jobs and forgetting about following promotions etc.
Del Mar / La Jolla / Rancho Santa Fe would be great but $$$ + :)
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I LOVE South Florida because it's one of the lowest cost of living major metro areas with access to tons and tons of amazing things to do. Plus it's tropical. Warm, white and beaches, etc. The issue in SoFlo is low wages, but you don't have that issue since you work remotely. We have 3 major international airports, too.
That said, I don't think it's quite what you are looking for. But there are some smaller towns that may be a good fit for you in and around Orlando and Tampa. No State income taxes, either.
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Have you considered Asheville, NC? Expensive by NC standards, but super affordable by west coast standards. Beautiful scenery, thousands of miles of hiking and biking trails, fairly liberal (though surrounding areas are more conservative), some of the best craft beer in the country if you care about that. The winters are colder than you're used to, but nowhere near as cold as most of the other suggestions I've seen.
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Have you considered Asheville, NC? Expensive by NC standards, but super affordable by west coast standards. Beautiful scenery, thousands of miles of hiking and biking trails, fairly liberal (though surrounding areas are more conservative), some of the best craft beer in the country if you care about that. The winters are colder than you're used to, but nowhere near as cold as most of the other suggestions I've seen.
I'm just outside of Asheville. The outdoors stuff is absolutely incredible, but there's a lot of stuff about the town that I really don't like. Its not particularly walkable, and the population is surprisingly old. Everyone leaves in the winter, which is nice for traffic, but downtown is a ghost town on a January night. During the early fall, the traffic is insane, I-26 is bumper to bumper all day during the weekend and almost as bad during the week. Don't even try to get on the parkway in October, you'll join a caravan of cars going 20mph with random stops for some dumbshit that wants to stop in the middle of the road to take pictures. Also, outside of town it is REALLY conservative.
All of that is balanced out by gorgeous scenery for me, but you've got to love it to put up with the BS of living here. Oh, and we have beer and stuff.
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Ever consider Delaware? Areas like the beach cities (Rehoboth Beach, Bethany, Lewes) tend to be expensive but walkable and you can find more reasonable prices if you are a few miles from the beach. Delaware is a lower tax state. There is quite of bit to do, especially in the summer, which unfortunately attracts a lot of summer crowds and traffic, which is the main downside of the area. You are 1-2 hours away from Philly, DC, Baltimore. Weather is a little milder than the bigger cities because of the location - 3-5 degrees can make a difference. And the beach area is fairly liberal as is the state, although the counties are more conservative because it includes many rural areas.
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Bellingham Washington is wonderful.
I have been considering Bellingham myself for when I retire. Right in between Vancouver and Seattle in a beautiful part of the state. I hear that it is a bit cheaper than its big brothers to the north and south.
Is there anything in particular that prompted you to mention it CgBg?
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Property prices are climbing but still pretty reasonable. Nice walkable town with a great farmers market. It feels like a miniature Portland to me, but Portland from 20+ years ago when it was smaller and more affordable with fledgling microbreweries.
It’s a very beautiful area with plenty of recreational opportunities particularly if you like water and woods.
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Bellingham Washington is wonderful.
I have been considering Bellingham myself for when I retire. Right in between Vancouver and Seattle in a beautiful part of the state. I hear that it is a bit cheaper than its big brothers to the north and south.
Is there anything in particular that prompted you to mention it CgBg?
Bellingham is on my short list, too. There have been some good discussion around the region and it appears that Bellingham often floats to the top.
There's also been quite a few recommendations in the past for Gainesville, FL as a locale with more reasonable housing and excellent biking infrastructure.
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Bellingham is not bad... You might unknowingly bump into me! Really the only con I can think of is the weather from November to April... but that usually means record snow at Mt. Baker if you are the glass half full type.
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Ogden Utah..
Great for families, average housing costs, low crime, all 4 seasons, great outdoors activities, one of the best state economies, one of the lowest unemployment rates, access to larger city (Salt Lake) great state infrastructure, lots of universities, one of the most beautiful places in the world... Pretty much an awesome place to live!
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I'm looking at taking a promotion in Indianapolis, after living in the Southwest. I spent part of my childhood in the Midwest and thought it was a great place for my childhood. I also love living in the Southwest, but I'm not sure it's the best place for my career or raising kids. I've done a lot of research about Indy and came across a lot of good things about it.
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Bellingham Washington is wonderful.
I have been considering Bellingham myself for when I retire. Right in between Vancouver and Seattle in a beautiful part of the state. I hear that it is a bit cheaper than its big brothers to the north and south.
Is there anything in particular that prompted you to mention it CgBg?
Bellingham is on my short list, too. There have been some good discussion around the region and it appears that Bellingham often floats to the top.
There's also been quite a few recommendations in the past for Gainesville, FL as a locale with more reasonable housing and excellent biking infrastructure.
Bellingham is at the top of our list right now as well. We visited there last summer and really enjoyed it; it has a lot that ticks our boxes. DW does want to go back again to spend more time in the city and see if she really *feels* it, though. We spent the majority of time visiting outdoor attractions, and didn't really hit downtown or walk around much aside from the parks. She felt a bit like she was still looking for where the actual city was.
I also like Bend, OR, but the isolation and cold winters might be a bit too much for DW.
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Ever consider Delaware? Areas like the beach cities (Rehoboth Beach, Bethany, Lewes) tend to be expensive but walkable and you can find more reasonable prices if you are a few miles from the beach. Delaware is a lower tax state. There is quite of bit to do, especially in the summer, which unfortunately attracts a lot of summer crowds and traffic, which is the main downside of the area. You are 1-2 hours away from Philly, DC, Baltimore. Weather is a little milder than the bigger cities because of the location - 3-5 degrees can make a difference. And the beach area is fairly liberal as is the state, although the counties are more conservative because it includes many rural areas.
I'll 2nd your recommendation - more broadly the whole delmarva peninsula. Gorgeous and laid back vibes with the Chesapeake & the Atlantic on either side.
I live in a "millenial" town outside of Philly called Conshohocken. The density (8,000 / sq mile) makes it feel urban despite being 10 miles from downtown Philly. Walkability, bike path, river access, affordable COL (for the N.E. corridor) commuter rail access, and highway access make it a very fun place to live. The beaches & mountains are also just 2 hours away. Downsides = commuter traffic, and cold weather. Good luck with your search!
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Grand Junction in western Colorado is not especially liberal and is kind of remote (4 hours to either Denver or Salt Lake City). It's a high desert mild climate. Not much snow in the valley but you can head upslope if you want to see some. Not as hot as Arizona. Doesn't get the big thunderstorms or hail storms like the front range sometimes does.
Amazing public lands all around for hiking and exploring. Great bike riding (road and mountain). There is even a herd of wild horses that live at the edge of the city. It's easy to hike out to see some of them.
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I don't know about the town itself in detail, but in addition to the larger college towns (Madison, Champaign-Urbana, West Lafayette) it might be worth considering the "2nd tier" -- SIU at Carbondale is going to have a lot less "winter" than any of those. It's far enough south you start picking up some rolling hills and there's a lot of national forest nearby. It *is* a lot smaller though and probably a more conservative.
Some other side benefits of university towns -- the school is a stabilizing force on the local economy and real estate -- they tend not to have bubbles (you can just pave over farm land... not ideal but it does keep prices in check) and they tend (at least mine) not to have crashes. 2008 was a kinda a big non-event here, house-price-wise. The bigger ones have tech hubs attached (hi!) that while not being silicon valley still have decent prospects for techie types.
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McMinnville or Independence, Oregon. Small town America, some mix of red and blue.
Bend Oregon if you can afford it.
Bellingham Washington is wonderful.
Bend has been on the list before!! Great place.
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Knoxville, TN
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I don't know about the town itself in detail, but in addition to the larger college towns (Madison, Champaign-Urbana, West Lafayette) it might be worth considering the "2nd tier" -- SIU at Carbondale is going to have a lot less "winter" than any of those. It's far enough south you start picking up some rolling hills and there's a lot of national forest nearby. It *is* a lot smaller though and probably a more conservative.
Some other side benefits of university towns -- the school is a stabilizing force on the local economy and real estate -- they tend not to have bubbles (you can just pave over farm land... not ideal but it does keep prices in check) and they tend (at least mine) not to have crashes. 2008 was a kinda a big non-event here, house-price-wise. The bigger ones have tech hubs attached (hi!) that while not being silicon valley still have decent prospects for techie types.
I agree with you Except SIUe vs Carbondal! lol West Lafeytte a great town and very inexpensive.
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Pittsburgh has been pretty great to me. Rapid growth is happening. Still a medium sized city with residents who pretty much stick to their burough which all have unique characteristics. I live south of the city and can get downtown in 15 minutes via highway. I'm also 15 mins from the airport.
Max 1 inch of snow at a time (unlike most of NE)
Will need to get used to bridges and tunnels. But your WFH situation will mean skirting the commuter traffic.
Edit: also SUPER cheap. Came from philly and am amazed by the low real estate cost.
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Chattanooga TN ticks almost all your boxes, OP. Not sure about walkability though. I'm hearing lots of good buzz lately about Chattanooga.
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Knoxville, TN
Love Knoxville, TN! great choice
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Chattanooga TN ticks almost all your boxes, OP. Not sure about walkability though. I'm hearing lots of good buzz lately about Chattanooga.
I'm not sure about walkability, either, though downtown it has the free buses. And for sure TN is conservative (except for Nashville), but I was absolutely delighted by Chattanooga on a visit last summer. Enough so to consider it as a possible retirement location.
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I'm looking at taking a promotion in Indianapolis, after living in the Southwest. I spent part of my childhood in the Midwest and thought it was a great place for my childhood. I also love living in the Southwest, but I'm not sure it's the best place for my career or raising kids. I've done a lot of research about Indy and came across a lot of good things about it.
Indy’s okay. Not my first pick to live there, although if I had kids I’d be more okay with it. I liked Cincinnati, Kansas City, and Milwaukee better for smaller (than Chicago) Midwest towns. They seem more livable and interesting, with more to do. Indy felt more commercial and like it was zoned by function: this part is where we work, this part is where we go out, and this part is where we live. OTOH Indy was clean, had nice parks, good restaurants, and nice, affordable housing so...(shrug).
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My guess is that we are in the same town. My wife and I spent 19 years in the Bay Area, then 5 years in Dallas, and have now been in a medium size town in the Midwest for the past 15 years. It's extremely liberal, very walkable, very affordable, has a very strong job market with a growing focus on tech, and offers an incredible variety of activities.
I'm guessing we don't based off of you mentioning a growing tech sector. If you name yours I'll say yes or no, or I could PM you. I'd be interested in meeting other mustachians, so here's hoping I'm wrong!!!
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Fayetteville, NC.
Large enough city to have lots of the chain stores, small enough to have locally owned businesses and restaurants.
Surprisingly cosmopolitan because of the military presence at Ft. Bragg. Lots of ethnic groceries and restaurants for the same reason.
If you get active in making the community better you'll be welcomed. Small enough to make a big difference. Large enough to have resources to make things happen.
Two universities in town. Within a couple hours of the beach or several different, larger cities. Within a day's drive of lots of cities. Amtrak station. Local airport with decent connections and no long lines.
Friendly, welcoming people. None of that, "You ain't from around here, are ya?"
Some great neighborhoods. Active artist community though you'll have to look for it.
Low cost of living.
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Fayetteville, NC.
Large enough city to have lots of the chain stores, small enough to have locally owned businesses and restaurants.
Surprisingly cosmopolitan because of the military presence at Ft. Bragg. Lots of ethnic groceries and restaurants for the same reason.
If you get active in making the community better you'll be welcomed. Small enough to make a big difference. Large enough to have resources to make things happen.
Two universities in town. Within a couple hours of the beach or several different, larger cities. Within a day's drive of lots of cities. Amtrak station. Local airport with decent connections and no long lines.
Friendly, welcoming people. None of that, "You ain't from around here, are ya?"
Some great neighborhoods. Active artist community though you'll have to look for it.
Low cost of living.
True, and if you need your hair cut, a loud muffler installed on your vehicle, your arm tattooed, or your lap danced on, there's no shortage of choices for you!
Kidding aside, Fayetteville must've changed a lot in the last 10 years. I'm glad its reviving itself, it was pretty bad the last time I was there.
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Athens, OH:
Nice bike trails, Liberal, good food, ~1 hour from Columbus OH, reasonable cost of living, nice outdoor recreation in the area, home to Ohio University
Charlottesville, VA:
Liberal, beautiful area, outdoor recreation, beautiful mountains, slightly better weather than Athens, home to University of Virginia
Roanoke or Salem VA:
Beautiful area, top notch outdoor recreation (hiking on Appalachian trail, mountain biking, etc), somewhat liberal, weather similar to Charlottesville. There are several small colleges in the area rather than one larger one like Athens or Charlottesville.
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Madison, WI outskirts would be a great town for you if you don't mind the winters and are willing to get into winter activities. Great College town, Very low cost of living.
I don't feel like Madison has a very low cost of living. Housing and rent here is INSANE right now. Things are relatively cheap aside from that.
It's a nice enough city, but I want out. I am so tired of living here.
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As stated before, lots of midwest college towns would fit.
Southern WI resident my whole life, and Madison kinda fits your wants as you describe. Medium-ish (although growing rapidly), close to bigger cities like Milwaukee and Chicago. Very bike-able, not that great for walking though as it's spread out due to the lakes. Has relatively high COL, but generally only in Madison proper. Tech sector has seen considerable growth in the last few years. Keep in mind though, the winters are brutal. We just had 3 snow storms in about 9 days, with forecast lows of -26F this week, NOT including wind chill. The rest of the year is mostly good weather-wise (can get hot and humid in summer with thunderstorms, sometimes severe but not as often as plains states get), but it will never be as consistently good as southern CA. State parks are abundant and generally well-maintained. Personally, I love it, and just grin and bear the shitty winters.
Madison itself is very left-leaning with a large university just outside downtown, and surrounding areas tend to lean right.
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I don't know about the town itself in detail, but in addition to the larger college towns (Madison, Champaign-Urbana, West Lafayette) it might be worth considering the "2nd tier" -- SIU at Carbondale is going to have a lot less "winter" than any of those. It's far enough south you start picking up some rolling hills and there's a lot of national forest nearby. It *is* a lot smaller though and probably a more conservative.
Some other side benefits of university towns -- the school is a stabilizing force on the local economy and real estate -- they tend not to have bubbles (you can just pave over farm land... not ideal but it does keep prices in check) and they tend (at least mine) not to have crashes. 2008 was a kinda a big non-event here, house-price-wise. The bigger ones have tech hubs attached (hi!) that while not being silicon valley still have decent prospects for techie types.
Carbondale was a great town to live in while in grad school, but I'm not sure I'd want to live there now. Depends on what you want to prioritize. Great outdoor opportunities, we hiked a lot. Nice wine trail if that's your thing. No real airport to speak of, but St Louis is a couple hours away. But the town really exists only because of SIU and SIU is struggling. I don't think it's going to shut down any time soon, but there is certainly a lot less going on than in some of the other larger college towns mentioned in this thread. I think both because SIU is smaller, but also because it is struggling. I do have some friends living their now (work for SIU) and love it as a place to raise their kids, but admit that their opportunities for involvement are less than if they lived in a larger area.
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Madison, WI outskirts would be a great town for you if you don't mind the winters and are willing to get into winter activities. Great College town, Very low cost of living.
I don't feel like Madison has a very low cost of living. Housing and rent here is INSANE right now. Things are relatively cheap aside from that.
It's a nice enough city, but I want out. I am so tired of living here.
Yeah, rents are crazy. My sister is renting a studio in a less desirable area of town for about 800/month. Housing costs are not nearly as cheap as a lot of small mid-country cities. I still love the area, though apparently they are having a blizzard currently. I dislike where I live, but the winter weather is definitely better.
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Chattanooga TN ticks almost all your boxes, OP. Not sure about walkability though. I'm hearing lots of good buzz lately about Chattanooga.
I'm not sure about walkability, either, though downtown it has the free buses. And for sure TN is conservative (except for Nashville), but I was absolutely delighted by Chattanooga on a visit last summer. Enough so to consider it as a possible retirement location.
Chattanooga is our favorite day trip and one of our top candidates for FIRE. The inner neighborhoods of Chattanooga are pretty walkable and seem fairly progressive. The only thing is that those parts of the city are getting expensive by Southern standards. I'm sure it would still be dirt cheap to anybody coming from Southern CA, though.
Temperate climate it is not, but snow and ice aren't very frequent. I think anywhere is going to have terrible weather if you're coming from California.
Chattanooga's airport isn't all that big, but the busiest airport in the world is 120 miles away.
Chattanooga also has more outdoor activities than you can shake a stick at, a few of them right in town.
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Madison, WI
medium sized, or smaller city with close access to a larger city nearby (decent airport access) : Medium sized. Has a good airport. Milwaukee and Chicago are 1.5-2 hours away.
walkable community or close to it would be amazing: Very walkable and bikable. Many breweries on the bike paths.
temperate climate would be amazing, but we understand how spoiled we are currently: Wednesday low is -31 with windchill around -55. I may dust off the winter coat.
nice outdoor areas, hiking/biking/etc: Beautiful state parks near by. Great hiking and trail running. Surrounded by large lakes.
somewhat liberal would be nice: Got to be one of the most liberal cities in the US.
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Madison, WI... Very walkable and bikable...Wednesday low is -31 with windchill around -55...
Eek! o_O
Do residents still use the bike paths in the winter?
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Madison, WI... Very walkable and bikable...Wednesday low is -31 with windchill around -55...
Eek! o_O
Do residents still use the bike paths in the winter?
Yes. My co worker bikes in except on days when hell freezes over (like most of this week). Although, it is much less crowded in the winter. I used to bike to work in Madison when I lived closer and it was great!
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Fayetteville, NC.
Large enough city to have lots of the chain stores, small enough to have locally owned businesses and restaurants.
Surprisingly cosmopolitan because of the military presence at Ft. Bragg. Lots of ethnic groceries and restaurants for the same reason.
If you get active in making the community better you'll be welcomed. Small enough to make a big difference. Large enough to have resources to make things happen.
Two universities in town. Within a couple hours of the beach or several different, larger cities. Within a day's drive of lots of cities. Amtrak station. Local airport with decent connections and no long lines.
Friendly, welcoming people. None of that, "You ain't from around here, are ya?"
Some great neighborhoods. Active artist community though you'll have to look for it.
Low cost of living.
True, and if you need your hair cut, a loud muffler installed on your vehicle, your arm tattooed, or your lap danced on, there's no shortage of choices for you!
Kidding aside, Fayetteville must've changed a lot in the last 10 years. I'm glad its reviving itself, it was pretty bad the last time I was there.
And...….. cue the obligatory jackass slur against Fayetteville.
We've lived here since 2001. It's been a nice place to live the entire time.
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Maybe I've lived here for too long and am growing increasingly bitter, but I don't love Madison like everyone else seems to, especially as an outdoorsy person.
The drinking culture is ridiculous - everything revolves around alcohol. The lakes are polluted. The weather is terrible. Low number of days with sunshine. Very little diversity. The housing market is insane and rent is super high. Badger games/fans dominate and are annoying. The state parks and hiking trails are nice for the first few years, but they get old after a while. (I run/hike thousands of miles a year, I have been on almost every trail in the area.) Want to go on a road trip? Great! You can drive to Chicago or Minneapolis or up North. Otherwise there's nothing. No mountains or oceans in driving distance. Want to head South? Enjoy driving for 6 hours through Illinois just to get to the border of Kentucky. The Northwoods are nice, sure, but at some point you start to crave something different.
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Maybe I've lived here for too long and am growing increasingly bitter, but I don't love Madison like everyone else seems to, especially as an outdoorsy person.
The drinking culture is ridiculous - everything revolves around alcohol. The lakes are polluted. The weather is terrible. Low number of days with sunshine. Very little diversity. The housing market is insane and rent is super high. Badger games/fans dominate and are annoying. The state parks and hiking trails are nice for the first few years, but they get old after a while. (I run/hike thousands of miles a year, I have been on almost every trail in the area.) Want to go on a road trip? Great! You can drive to Chicago or Minneapolis or up North. Otherwise there's nothing. No mountains or oceans in driving distance. Want to head South? Enjoy driving for 6 hours through Illinois just to get to the border of Kentucky. The Northwoods are nice, sure, but at some point you start to crave something different.
All of the things you say are correct to some extent, but it's all relative. I appreciated the city a lot when I lived there, but had many of the same complaints you list. Then I moved to Tucson and lived there for a decade. Initially, I LOVED it, but eventually got bitter about living there as a poor person and started to dwell more on the particular downsides of that city. I kept thinking 'when I start adulting, I'll end up finally in a place I really want to be'. What an entitled idiot I was in my 20s. Now, after being stuck in my current location for nearly 20 years, I want to go back and punch my younger self repeatedly in the face. And yet, because I have hard-won perspective, I do realize there are locations I could be living that would be even worse. As shitty as this location is, there are a few good points to it, and I try to remind myself of them over and over and over and over.
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If you can convince yourself to enjoy winter sports/weather, although in a more moderate climate than the midwest, definitely second the nominations for Bellingham or Bend. Bellingham is close enough to Vancouver BC, lots of great outdoor activities, town itself is super cute due to college & reasonably walkable.
Also, I haven't spent much time there, but have you looked at other areas along the California coast? Maybe San Louis Obispo? We are in a similar phase of exploration, but don't plan to move for another 7 years or so (once the kids are out of school.)
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Bellingham has unofficially the highest concentration of masters degrees in the United States. You need a masters to get a barista job in Bellingham which is not necessarily a bad thing. You also need really good rain gear. I have friends there, they really like it but it is not cheap and the local economy is not particularly strong.
Midwest... (I'm from there) grey winters and no mountains within a (long) one days drive, oh and humidity. Madison was great like twenty years ago, now what you get for what it costs, I'd move on. I lived in Chicago for 2.5 years. I used to drive to the UP of Michigan for kicks. Now Houghton, MI..... or a whole slew of places in Michigan. That state ticks a whole lot of my boxes, but I really like to spend time outdoors and love winter, so it's good for those things.
I lived in Bloomington, IN and it probably is a great place for retirees who appreciate some culture surrounded by absolute hard-core redneckedness. If I had to move back to Indiana, that's about the only place I'd consider, and really pretty reluctantly. I've been in Northern California too long. The music school at IU is consistently one of the best in the country and you can see a top notch recital nearly every night of the week for free. The campus is the most beautiful I've experienced. Gorgeous limestone structures (minus Balantine Hall) and a heavy emphasis on open space and greenery. The art museum is free, there is the Kinsey Institute (yeah that guy), there is a strong Buddhist community there among many other smaller cultural attractions. Dining is good to very good and the downtown has a nice square that most towns in Indiana have. The Indy airport is currently 1 hr + but will be faster (~45 min?) once I-69 is completed between Btown and I-465 (on-going for several years). There is a fair amount of rural property around Bloomington but it really is essentially Deliverance country. It goes from urban to rural very quick. If anyone remembers the movie "Breaking Away", it is really an accurate depiction. Despite the heat, summers in Bloomington are great. All the students leave, there is tons of parking and no traffic. At least this is how it was, sheesh, it's been almost twenty years!!
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Bellingham Washington is wonderful.
I have been considering Bellingham myself for when I retire. Right in between Vancouver and Seattle in a beautiful part of the state. I hear that it is a bit cheaper than its big brothers to the north and south.
Is there anything in particular that prompted you to mention it CgBg?
Bellingham is on my short list, too. There have been some good discussion around the region and it appears that Bellingham often floats to the top.
There's also been quite a few recommendations in the past for Gainesville, FL as a locale with more reasonable housing and excellent biking infrastructure.
Bellingham is at the top of our list right now as well. We visited there last summer and really enjoyed it; it has a lot that ticks our boxes. DW does want to go back again to spend more time in the city and see if she really *feels* it, though. We spent the majority of time visiting outdoor attractions, and didn't really hit downtown or walk around much aside from the parks. She felt a bit like she was still looking for where the actual city was.
I also like Bend, OR, but the isolation and cold winters might be a bit too much for DW.
I went to WWU in Bellingham another lifetime ago. I've been back quite a bit, but every time, more and more people. I guess like here in Denver, the secret is out. I can't knock it though, I just gave up on retiring there as it's become en vogue as proven by this thread :). My only advice is don't get lulled into it by only visiting in Summer. From about daylight savings in Fall to April/May, you won't see the sun much.
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Northern Nevada ticks off all your boxes. They have a mild 4 seasons. Lots of outdoor recreation and things to do. Housing has gone up a lot due to tech companies moving in.
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Maybe I've lived here for too long and am growing increasingly bitter, but I don't love Madison like everyone else seems to, especially as an outdoorsy person.
The drinking culture is ridiculous - everything revolves around alcohol. The lakes are polluted. The weather is terrible. Low number of days with sunshine. Very little diversity. The housing market is insane and rent is super high. Badger games/fans dominate and are annoying. The state parks and hiking trails are nice for the first few years, but they get old after a while. (I run/hike thousands of miles a year, I have been on almost every trail in the area.) Want to go on a road trip? Great! You can drive to Chicago or Minneapolis or up North. Otherwise there's nothing. No mountains or oceans in driving distance. Want to head South? Enjoy driving for 6 hours through Illinois just to get to the border of Kentucky. The Northwoods are nice, sure, but at some point you start to crave something different.
Agree with the drinking comment. Personally I'm an outlier as my consumption is about 2-3 drinks per week max. The drinking here is definitely fueled by both the UW and the state's history of breweries. That said, you don't need to partake to fit in or have a good time. I'm in several rec leagues throughout the year and yes, many of my teammates like drinking a lot but I would never say I've felt pressured to join in, at least not since college.
Sometimes people just grow tired of where they are. No harm, no foul. A lot of it comes down to personal preference though; but I think we can objectively say winters are pretty crappy here unless you're really into winter sports. Beyond that, I LOVE the variation in weather the rest of the year; but I am a weather nerd anyway. I spent some extended time in Arizona and hated the constant sunshine and brown, brown and more brown to look at. Throw me a couple days of sun, some cool, cloudy days and a stormy day here and there and I'm set. As far the lakes, they used to be awfully polluted, but the city has taken steps to clean them up and they are improving. Where 10 years ago you wouldn't catch me dead swimming in Lake Mendota, I will do it now.
Again, it's all preference and what the OP likes.
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Well, if you're going to consider Madison, you might as well consider Ann Arbor-- because it doesn't get down to 30+ freaking degrees below zero!
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Being from California, I would not be surprised if you are mainly seriously considering western/southwest cities. Perhaps some of the smaller CO cities like Boulder or Colorado Springs could fit if you can afford it and you are okay with snowy winters (visited Boulder last fall and loved the liberal vibe and walkable downtown but it is very expensive; I think Colorado Springs is cheaper but heard it is a more conservative - Wiki says Colorado Springs is attracting the evangelicals and is being dubbed the Evangelical Vatican per wiki, and it has several military bases nearby. Read an article that Boise Idaho is attracting Cal transplants and has a lively arts scene and walkable downtown but Idaho itself is a very conservative state. San Antonio perhaps? - I heard it is not as traffic jammed as Austin/DFW/Houston and has a lively downtown but off course it's hot and muggy in the summer (haven't been there).
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I also loved Tucson, and am thinking of trying to move back, but it IS large and has grown exponentially since I left about 20 years ago. It just never felt big to me b/c I worked all over the city and knew it very well.
Might be worth having a look at Santa Fe. It reminds me a lot of how Tucson was 20 years ago, in terms of how the size feels.
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I also loved Tucson, and am thinking of trying to move back, but it IS large and has grown exponentially since I left about 20 years ago. It just never felt big to me b/c I worked all over the city and knew it very well.
Might be worth having a look at Santa Fe. It reminds me a lot of how Tucson was 20 years ago, in terms of how the size feels.
Yes, I like both Santa Fe and Taos, but they are quite expensive, which is why they didn't occur to me to rec.
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I personally loved my 4 years in Grand Rapids MI. Might not check the boxes for weather or political climate, however.
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I also loved Tucson, and am thinking of trying to move back, but it IS large and has grown exponentially since I left about 20 years ago. It just never felt big to me b/c I worked all over the city and knew it very well.
Might be worth having a look at Santa Fe. It reminds me a lot of how Tucson was 20 years ago, in terms of how the size feels.
Yes, I like both Santa Fe and Taos, but they are quite expensive, which is why they didn't occur to me to rec.
It's been a few years, but I would think Taos could only be considered walkable because it is tiny.
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Northern Nevada ticks off all your boxes. They have a mild 4 seasons. Lots of outdoor recreation and things to do. Housing has gone up a lot due to tech companies moving in.
What Cities are in Northern Nevada? Are you referring to Reno & it's suburbs?
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Yes
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Ugh, I admit I haven't seen all of Reno by any means, but I've been there on vacation a couple times and hated it. To each their own, for sure.
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It has really changed. Something to do every weekend and half a hour to all the recreational activities in Lake Tahoe. A mild 4 seasons. Lots of technology companies have moved in which has escalated home prices. Downtown is much nicer than it used to be.
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Reno - con confirm, I was there last night. We are in Tahoe for a week for a stay-cation of sorts. Went down there to get some things done that are cheaper there than in the Bay Area. The midtown area, Virginia Street is a place I would actually want to live. Single family homes are going fast and there is a lot of multi family developments being built along the corridor. It has grown up a lot since I last spent any time in Reno 4 or 5 years ago. It's not that cheap though. Like many smaller western cities, it's been absorbing Californians in droves. I can't speak about the schools though, but it ticks just about all my other boxes. Maybe a bit dry.
I've always been attracted to the area because of access to such a wide variety of outdoor activities. Lots of people don't know about the 395 corridor south of Reno either, which is one of my favorite places in the US. Great access from Reno/Carson City.
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Those new townhouses in midtown are 500-700k. Our house is a mile from downtown and is 1400 sq ft and worth 350. Lack of affordable housing is s real issue.
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Those new townhouses in midtown are 500-700k.
That seems grossly over valued. I don't know what wages in Reno are supporting that. Condos (not new construction) sell for that 30 minutes from SF in my town.
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People want to live in midtown. Lots of people from California sell their homes and pay cash here and it seems cheap to them. For that price you can have a enormous house in the burbs. Apple, Tesla, Google and another tech company have moved in. Rents are skyrocketing. They are putting those townhouses on every piece of empty property in midtown. Also many are technically houses since there is a few feet between them but often no yard.
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You might consider some of the older, close-in suburbs of Washington DC. Silver Spring and Hyattsville in MD come to mind. They're not cheap except by SoCal standards, but otherwise I think they tick all your boxes: walkable, great arts scene, easy transit access to downtown and the airport (and Amtrak), lots of outdoor activities nearby (hiking, camping, beach, sailing, canoeing, hunting), politically liberal, much milder winters than the Midwest.
I'll second MD. This is the fourth state that I've lived in and easily my favorite. Lots of stuff to do, sensible politics, great schools, and four seasons.
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Hi OP,
What places are you considering, and do you have any geographic preference between the coasts? We've been bumming around a bit after leaving Northern California, and here is some places we have or will consider (we have a preference for east coast, more for proximity reasons.. weather is better and scenery is prettier on the west coast, but family proximity wins for now). I will say, the only thing that's going to be hard is temperate. After leaving Northern California, nothing has beaten the climate ('Live in New York City once, but leave before it makes you hard. Live in Northern California once, but leave before it makes you soft')
Some places you might want to consider , or that we might:
Boise ID (Lots of California transplants here, definitely four seasons)
Salt Lake City (Big city, access to outdoors, center of the west so to speak)
Charlottesville VA (Nice city)
Charleston SC (Love this city)
Wilmington NC (this ticked enough boxes that we are gonna consider it for a while, I'm not looking forward to the summers, but it's by the beach, and the water is warm enough to swim, which is something)
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I went to WWU in Bellingham another lifetime ago. I've been back quite a bit, but every time, more and more people. I guess like here in Denver, the secret is out. I can't knock it though, I just gave up on retiring there as it's become en vogue as proven by this thread :). My only advice is don't get lulled into it by only visiting in Summer. From about daylight savings in Fall to April/May, you won't see the sun much.
Yeah, I would like to visit during the offseason for the reality check. I don't think I'd have too much of a problem, but it's hard to say. I did grow up in one of the most overcast cities in the US, with much colder weather and lots of snow. Never lived anywhere with rain all winter, though.
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It has really changed. Something to do every weekend and half a hour to all the recreational activities in Lake Tahoe. A mild 4 seasons. Lots of technology companies have moved in which has escalated home prices. Downtown is much nicer than it used to be.
We strongly considered Reno but just can't get ourselves to leave Florida. We love it way too much here. But Reno has a really reasonably cost of living, plenty of entertainment, nature, and things to do. Big enough but not that big. A great airport with plenty of flights. And of course, TAHOE. It's an outstanding place to live. We have friends there that love it.
Plus as you are pointing out, Reno is a growing area. Which means home prices are highly likely to increase. So getting in there now is a good idea.
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OP do you have connections in SoCal you want to keep? Family? Friends? If so, and you can work remotely, you might check out some less expensive areas. I moved from OC to Big Bear Lake after I FIREd and didn't need a job any longer (don't live there anymore though). Lots cheaper and nicer but still close enough for me to visit OC to see family.
No family here, but yes some friendships we care about. We are definitely open to leaving though. We are 100% flexible on location as far as current employment goes, which is super nice, but also creates a bit of analysis paralysis. And - Big Bear is great! We love visiting.
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If you can convince yourself to enjoy winter sports/weather, although in a more moderate climate than the midwest, definitely second the nominations for Bellingham or Bend. Bellingham is close enough to Vancouver BC, lots of great outdoor activities, town itself is super cute due to college & reasonably walkable.
Also, I haven't spent much time there, but have you looked at other areas along the California coast? Maybe San Louis Obispo? We are in a similar phase of exploration, but don't plan to move for another 7 years or so (once the kids are out of school.)
SLO has definitely been on the list, I mean - what's not to like?! But I don't think it's any less expensive. It checks everything else though and is a definite possibility....we just sometimes wonder if we should find somewhere with a lower COL.
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Being from California, I would not be surprised if you are mainly seriously considering western/southwest cities. Perhaps some of the smaller CO cities like Boulder or Colorado Springs could fit if you can afford it and you are okay with snowy winters (visited Boulder last fall and loved the liberal vibe and walkable downtown but it is very expensive; I think Colorado Springs is cheaper but heard it is a more conservative - Wiki says Colorado Springs is attracting the evangelicals and is being dubbed the Evangelical Vatican per wiki, and it has several military bases nearby. Read an article that Boise Idaho is attracting Cal transplants and has a lively arts scene and walkable downtown but Idaho itself is a very conservative state. San Antonio perhaps? - I heard it is not as traffic jammed as Austin/DFW/Houston and has a lively downtown but off course it's hot and muggy in the summer (haven't been there).
All great suggestions thank you
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Hi OP,
What places are you considering, and do you have any geographic preference between the coasts? We've been bumming around a bit after leaving Northern California, and here is some places we have or will consider (we have a preference for east coast, more for proximity reasons.. weather is better and scenery is prettier on the west coast, but family proximity wins for now). I will say, the only thing that's going to be hard is temperate. After leaving Northern California, nothing has beaten the climate ('Live in New York City once, but leave before it makes you hard. Live in Northern California once, but leave before it makes you soft')
Some places you might want to consider , or that we might:
Boise ID (Lots of California transplants here, definitely four seasons)
Salt Lake City (Big city, access to outdoors, center of the west so to speak)
Charlottesville VA (Nice city)
Charleston SC (Love this city)
Wilmington NC (this ticked enough boxes that we are gonna consider it for a while, I'm not looking forward to the summers, but it's by the beach, and the water is warm enough to swim, which is something)
We are partial to the West for sure. But open - I haven't been to the south much at all, and we are contemplating a trip through Asheville, Charleston, Wilmington, Savannah areas just to take a peek! Mostly for travel and exploring, but just a little bit of taking a look around to see if anything feels good.
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We've considered many of the places mentioned in this thread. One other city that we looked into quite a bit was Ashland, Oregon. We ended up striking it from our list, because the summer is a bit too toasty for us (we have a child with heat sensitivity, so avoiding the hotter end of the spectrum is of extreme importance to us), but it's got a lot going for it.
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We've considered many of the places mentioned in this thread. One other city that we looked into quite a bit was Ashland, Oregon. We ended up striking it from our list, because the summer is a bit too toasty for us (we have a child with heat sensitivity, so avoiding the hotter end of the spectrum is of extreme importance to us), but it's got a lot going for it.
Do any of you here consider global warming and climate changes as a part of the selection process?
We may presume that hotter places will get hotter, dry places might get drinking water challenges and that coastal places might flood more. We can expect more extreme weather in all aspects. Snowy places might get more snow.
I personally would find it hard to select a new city based on future climate, but I would keep it in the back of my head.
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We've considered many of the places mentioned in this thread. One other city that we looked into quite a bit was Ashland, Oregon. We ended up striking it from our list, because the summer is a bit too toasty for us (we have a child with heat sensitivity, so avoiding the hotter end of the spectrum is of extreme importance to us), but it's got a lot going for it.
Do any of you here consider global warming and climate changes as a part of the selection process?
We may presume that hotter places will get hotter, dry places might get drinking water challenges and that coastal places might flood more. We can expect more extreme weather in all aspects. Snowy places might get more snow.
I personally would find it hard to select a new city based on future climate, but I would keep it in the back of my head.
I do not. I would take a very small consideration as to natural disasters typical of the area, however.
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We've considered many of the places mentioned in this thread. One other city that we looked into quite a bit was Ashland, Oregon. We ended up striking it from our list, because the summer is a bit too toasty for us (we have a child with heat sensitivity, so avoiding the hotter end of the spectrum is of extreme importance to us), but it's got a lot going for it.
Do any of you here consider global warming and climate changes as a part of the selection process?
We may presume that hotter places will get hotter, dry places might get drinking water challenges and that coastal places might flood more. We can expect more extreme weather in all aspects. Snowy places might get more snow.
I personally would find it hard to select a new city based on future climate, but I would keep it in the back of my head.
In the eastern part of the US the climate is so variable that climate change would have to really stick out to be noticeable. I think the weather here has been more extreme here lately, but it's so hard to tell given that abnormal is normal around here.
It probably wouldn't be a good idea to get too close to the coast, though, given that hurricanes seem to really be getting worse.
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Athens, GA here. Our criteria was very similar to yours and this town has been a great home for 4+ years now.
Great weather.
Very walkable and decently bike friendly(this is improving pretty rapidly).
It's lowish COL but more mid COL in the more walkable historic neighborhoods. 2 blocks up from our place you have 3-4 nice pubs, 4 restaurants, a coffee shop, juice shop, cheese shop, wine shop and a small grocery and a 50+ acre park. A 2-3 bed house would rent for $1800+ or sell $250-400k depending on exact size and finishes.
About an hour from north Atlanta and maybe 1:20 from the Atlanta airport.
Athens itself also super progressive. However, just like the Midwestern towns listed, our representation is quite conservative due to the surrounding red areas and some state level gerrymandering.
Bonus: There's also a great craft beer scene.
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Port Townsend WA. Gem of a town! One of the few cities in the PNW that is in a rain shadow. Gets 18"/yr versus 35". Water everywhere, access to National Parks, excellent cycling, award winning Main St. It's a Victorian seaport village. Seattle, Olympia, and Victoria BC would be the closest big cities.
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Look into Dayton, OH. It's extremely affordable, a rust belt town that was smacked by 2008 and again when the local GM plant closed. In the past few years there's a lot of new stuff opening up everywhere - my parents live in the surrounding suburbs, so each time I go back I'm shocked to find something new and relatively cool.
The University of Dayton (private, Catholic school) and Wright State University are there, plus Wright-Patterson AFB, and it's a very walkable downtown area. The entire city is connected with bike paths, and it truly is bike friendly. Musical tours come through, and I attended a Nat Geo talk with my mother once. Not a shortage of "stuff" to do unless you refuse to look.
Lots of outdoor recreation opportunities and an excellent local MetroPark system. Neighborhoods to look into would be downtown, the Oregon District, South Park, Patterson Park, or Twin Towers.
Dayton itself has a smaller airport but you can get just about anywhere you need to go by getting to Atlanta, Minneapolis, or any of the NYC area airports pretty quickly. Cincinnati or Columbus airports are about 1 - 1.5 hr away, depending on traffic.
Despite being in an area where tornados are a concern (April - November is the season) the geology around Dayton keeps it relatively safe. It sits inside of a "bowl" shape river valley, and it's surrounded by hills, and tornados don't really do elevation change. Plus, an ample supply of fresh clean water thanks to a mostly self-sustaining aquifer right below the city.
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Well, if you're going to consider Madison, you might as well consider Ann Arbor-- because it doesn't get down to 30+ freaking degrees below zero!
I love Ann Arbor. Real estate is pricey for Michigan but cheap compared to SoCal.
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Before moving off to the midwest somewhere, have you ever not lived in Southern California? Dayton OH, for example, has 77 sunny days a year. That is less than half of Southern California. How were you last week when we didn't see the sun for couple of days? Take your mood in those conditions into consideration when looking at new locations.
As for Madison and Ann Arbor, Austin was always lumped with those when I was a young adult. Austin is probably larger than the other two by now, but I did quick search and see that the cost of living is a whopping 2% above Ann Arbor, but 15% above Madison.
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Port Townsend WA. Gem of a town! One of the few cities in the PNW that is in a rain shadow. Gets 18"/yr versus 35". Water everywhere, access to National Parks, excellent cycling, award winning Main St. It's a Victorian seaport village. Seattle, Olympia, and Victoria BC would be the closest big cities.
Port Townsend is a very charming town, love the victorian houses. I haven't lived there, but it did give a good vibe.
I've wondered about the Olympic Peninsula rain shadow: do you only get less rain, or also less rain and less gray? Less rain is nice, but dry and sunny with blue skies would be even better. Does it matter if you go more inland to Sequim? Are you looking at gray skies no matter what?
How were you last week when we didn't see the sun for couple of days? Take your mood in those conditions into consideration when looking at new locations.
This is something worth considering. Until I had it in abundance, and then no so much, I didn't realize how much sunshine, blue skies, and temperate weather improved my mood and happiness.
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OP, have you given any thought to Nevada City, Grass Valley or Auburn? Still in California, less expensive than coastal areas and has a variety of housing. Lots of access to outdoor activities. Seasons, somewhat and summer is not horrific. Sacramento for a reasonable airport and SFO is not that far. Davis is accessible if you want to attend a lecture or workshop or visit the wonderful free museum. And if you crave beautiful but cold beaches, not so far. Nevada City's nice but sways a bit heavy on the Wild West theme, ha!
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I was born in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. I live and work also here. It's a small town with a beautiful nature. Especially it's very beautiful in winter when snow covers everything. But I'm thinking to relocate myself to a bigger city with more opportunities.
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I have a little while to go, but I started looking into places with 70 F temperature year-round. My wife wants to stay in the US when we retire, but any places that fit that bill have pretty high costs of living.
However, since I do have a while, I think I'm going to use travel rewards to do some foreign trips and check some of the places out. The first one on my list is Trujillo, Peru. 70 degrees year-round and no rain sounds like a paradise after living in the roller coaster of a climate that is middle Tennessee.
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I have a little while to go, but I started looking into places with 70 F temperature year-round. My wife wants to stay in the US when we retire, but any places that fit that bill have pretty high costs of living.
However, since I do have a while, I think I'm going to use travel rewards to do some foreign trips and check some of the places out. The first one on my list is Trujillo, Peru. 70 degrees year-round and no rain sounds like a paradise after living in the roller coaster of a climate that is middle Tennessee.
Just curious as to what sticks out about Trujillo specifically?
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Nothing in particular. I was just looking at places where the temperature is 70 year-round. It popped up and as a double bonus appears to get no rain. It looks to have a low cost of living, and I have some knowledge of Spanish, though it is Mexican Spanish and has certainly faded since moving to TN.
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Nothing in particular. I was just looking at places where the temperature is 70 year-round. It popped up and as a double bonus appears to get no rain. It looks to have a low cost of living, and I have some knowledge of Spanish, though it is Mexican Spanish and has certainly faded since moving to TN.
There are actually a whole lot of places in Latin America that are like that. Most of the coast of Peru and a lot of Chile have that cool no rain climate as well as Baja California. Then almost every country from Peru up to Mexico has areas that are really nice because of the altitude, although some do get rain.
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We've considered many of the places mentioned in this thread. One other city that we looked into quite a bit was Ashland, Oregon. We ended up striking it from our list, because the summer is a bit too toasty for us (we have a child with heat sensitivity, so avoiding the hotter end of the spectrum is of extreme importance to us), but it's got a lot going for it.
Do any of you here consider global warming and climate changes as a part of the selection process?
We may presume that hotter places will get hotter, dry places might get drinking water challenges and that coastal places might flood more. We can expect more extreme weather in all aspects. Snowy places might get more snow.
I personally would find it hard to select a new city based on future climate, but I would keep it in the back of my head.
Absolutely not. Been hearing about it for decades. The beach still looks the same as it did decades ago. I'll take 'global warming' in to consideration when there appears to actually be something to consider.
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Chattanooga TN ticks almost all your boxes, OP. Not sure about walkability though. I'm hearing lots of good buzz lately about Chattanooga.
I'm not sure about walkability, either, though downtown it has the free buses. And for sure TN is conservative (except for Nashville), but I was absolutely delighted by Chattanooga on a visit last summer. Enough so to consider it as a possible retirement location.
We are considering this too. It's an easy-peasy drive to Atlanta, Nashville, & Birmingham if you want to do city stuff. It has nature out the butt. It seems to have a reasonable cost of living and a really livable feel to it. It would be a positive contrast to Memphis, where we are now.
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If you like sitting inside with your doors locked while watching the local news stories about drug raids then check out Altoona, PA!
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Chattanooga TN ticks almost all your boxes, OP. Not sure about walkability though. I'm hearing lots of good buzz lately about Chattanooga.
I'm not sure about walkability, either, though downtown it has the free buses. And for sure TN is conservative (except for Nashville), but I was absolutely delighted by Chattanooga on a visit last summer. Enough so to consider it as a possible retirement location.
We are considering this too. It's an easy-peasy drive to Atlanta, Nashville, & Birmingham if you want to do city stuff. It has nature out the butt. It seems to have a reasonable cost of living and a really livable feel to it. It would be a positive contrast to Memphis, where we are now.
The bluffs next to the city...I was totally not expecting those! And now I'm getting weekly email updates from Reflection Riding Arboretum (lovely property up on the bluff where we spent a whole day hiking) and it's making me want to go back.
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post to follow
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This seems like a very mustachian solution to the where to live question - https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/italy-town-pays-people-to-move-intl/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/italy-town-pays-people-to-move-intl/index.html). Anyone ever done or considered something like this?
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Northern Nevada ticks off all your boxes. They have a mild 4 seasons. Lots of outdoor recreation and things to do. Housing has gone up a lot due to tech companies moving in.
i don't live in reno but i love it there. what i love about it is the summers, no need for AC in and around reno. my house is for sale now, we are moving to asia and i hope never to step foot in the US ever again, but if we were staying in the US, reno would be top of my list. entertainment, things to do are plentiful in reno. winters are terribly cold in the mountains around reno, but in and around town not too bad. crime is very low too.
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Athens, GA here. Our criteria was very similar to yours and this town has been a great home for 4+ years now.
Great weather.
Very walkable and decently bike friendly(this is improving pretty rapidly).
It's lowish COL but more mid COL in the more walkable historic neighborhoods. 2 blocks up from our place you have 3-4 nice pubs, 4 restaurants, a coffee shop, juice shop, cheese shop, wine shop and a small grocery and a 50+ acre park. A 2-3 bed house would rent for $1800+ or sell $250-400k depending on exact size and finishes.
About an hour from north Atlanta and maybe 1:20 from the Atlanta airport.
Athens itself also super progressive. However, just like the Midwestern towns listed, our representation is quite conservative due to the surrounding red areas and some state level gerrymandering.
Bonus: There's also a great craft beer scene.
That sounds amazing, thank you. 250-400K definitely doable, and we could set up to cash pay that. I'll look into Athens, thanks!
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I'll provide some love for my hometown of Lawrence, Kansas, which is home to the University of Kansas. It is the blue dot in the red state. You can drive to Kansas City International Airport in 45 minutes. But if weather is important to you, then you won't be happy anywhere in the central U.S..
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Do any of you here consider global warming and climate changes as a part of the selection process?
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I personally would find it hard to select a new city based on future climate, but I would keep it in the back of my head.
Neat visualization for the US of what climate's some cities might resemble in the future:
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/e3r7AZxAPwfwdxJzlYMjJG5HmgA=/1400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/13590787/US_MAP_LOGO.gif)
It's a visualization based only on predicted changes in temperture and precipitation, but kind of cool (for some definition of cool). More details here: https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/energy-and-environment/2018/11/30/18117953/climate-change-maps-cities-2050
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Do any of you here consider global warming and climate changes as a part of the selection process?
...
I personally would find it hard to select a new city based on future climate, but I would keep it in the back of my head.
Neat visualization for the US of what climate's some cities might resemble in the future:
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/e3r7AZxAPwfwdxJzlYMjJG5HmgA=/1400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/13590787/US_MAP_LOGO.gif)
It's a visualization based only on predicted changes in temperture and precipitation, but kind of cool (for some definition of cool). More details here: https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/energy-and-environment/2018/11/30/18117953/climate-change-maps-cities-2050
What I noticed from that visualization, is that we are already halfway into that period. Here in Norway we have also observed that the winters in the last 30 years have gotten fewer days below zero on average for each year. Over 30 years the winters are not what they used to be.
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Albuquerque.
Sent from my coral using Tapatalk
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We do think about potential climate change impacts, but it's not driving our decision-making process.
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Fayetteville, NC.
Large enough city to have lots of the chain stores, small enough to have locally owned businesses and restaurants.
Surprisingly cosmopolitan because of the military presence at Ft. Bragg. Lots of ethnic groceries and restaurants for the same reason.
If you get active in making the community better you'll be welcomed. Small enough to make a big difference. Large enough to have resources to make things happen.
Two universities in town. Within a couple hours of the beach or several different, larger cities. Within a day's drive of lots of cities. Amtrak station. Local airport with decent connections and no long lines.
Friendly, welcoming people. None of that, "You ain't from around here, are ya?"
Some great neighborhoods. Active artist community though you'll have to look for it.
Low cost of living.
True, and if you need your hair cut, a loud muffler installed on your vehicle, your arm tattooed, or your lap danced on, there's no shortage of choices for you!
Kidding aside, Fayetteville must've changed a lot in the last 10 years. I'm glad its reviving itself, it was pretty bad the last time I was there.
It still is, I would not recommend Fayetteville..