Author Topic: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.  (Read 3234 times)

oakleaf

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Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« on: April 16, 2020, 09:29:42 PM »
Hi All,
I am new to this forum although I have know about FIRE since 2012. I am writing to get some perspective since I have lost my mustache way and trying to get back. Five years ago, I quit my tech job I hated that would have gotten me to FIRE in about five to ten years, and I have not been able to find my grounding since then. I have been depleting my FIRE stash. In hindsight, I could have transitioned to another path within the same industry, but I was not confident that I would be able to make the change. Staying for another five to ten years seemed unbearable.

Long story short, I snapped and quit without a plan. I thought I would figure out something better but that has not been the case. I tried a bunch of different jobs and trade schools and lost a lot of my savings over the years while going through long bouts of unemployment and spending money on schooling. The current situation is I am back in graduate school for a career change. I have one more year left in school and have a lot of doubts about whether this was a good idea. I am paying out of pocket for school as I did not win an assistant job. I had some part-time jobs and a potential summer internship that disappeared with COVID-19. You might see a pattern here. I keep jumping into things with questionable ROI. I am working with different people to try to resolve some negative inner patterns, which is a pretty tough road ahead. But that's another topic.

Since many people on this forum have made wise decisions and are enjoying financial independence, I thought it would be good to reach out even if it has the risk of exposing myself on the Web. There aren't that many people in my network who know about FIRE ideas and can offer good counsel. What I want to ask are:
1. Have any of you lost your way but found your way back? If so, how?
2. In my current situation (back in school, no stable job or income), what would you suggest I do now and for the summer to make the best out of my situation? I am talking about rebuilding myself, adding to my savings, and improving my job prospects. Would it be a good idea for me to get any job out there, even if it pays minimum wage?
3. How would I find an ideal job that has the right balance of income and stress? Or do I just have to tough it out as long as it pays okay since work is not supposed to be fun? I have not yet found a job that I love. And I discovered some of the most stressful jobs out there are also some of the lowest-paying

If you read through this, I thank you. I would appreciate your advice.

moneytaichi

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2020, 11:49:57 PM »
Sorry to hear your challenging situation!

I had a tough period like yours in my early 20s. One thing after another didn't work out. What got me through that period were:
  • Dedication to learning and growing. If you keep working on your inner world and life skills, the path will show it to you.
  • Do not compare yourself with others, not even your younger self. You never know the alternative path would be better or worse. You could have burnt out so much and ended up in a much worse state.
  • Always do your best in every single day. If you can keep your spirit up, you will end up in a good place. Enjoy the process, instead of only focusing on your goals.
  • Cultivate gratitude. Think about people who are in way worse situations than you: economically, health wise, or caught in wars etc. We all tend to focus on our lacks. I have to remind myself constantly to practice gratitude.
  • Last, consider taking on mindful meditation if you have not done so. Your note reflects an outward focus, which may have caused you jump around with too many different jobs and schools. Know yourself first!

Sorry that I am not answering some of your questions directly. What kind of schools are you studying now? If you have not yet found a job that you love, contemplate which aspects you do like and how to lean towards that direction. I used to believe the dream job concept (i.e. a job that I love). I don't think that way any more. What is your purpose in life? If you are FIREd, what would turn you on? How can a job support your life now and in the future?

Good luck with your searching! I think you started an important step on self-reflection. Keep doing that!

Miss Prim

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2020, 07:53:44 AM »
I just wanted to say that there really is no ideal job for most people.  Most people may love their jobs at first, but anything that is repetitious just will not be very exciting after awhile.  Personally, I think the ideal job is one that pays pretty well and also plays to your strengths.  Was your tech job something you were good at?  What type of field is your graduate work in, something totally different, or in your same field?

Mustachianism is something you can practice at any wage level.  I was in the healthcare field and although we were paid ok, it was not like having a tech job and making a lot of money.  But, my husband and I practiced mustachian principles long before I even heard of this site.  We always bought used cars, lived frugally and saved, saved, saved.  We did not retire very early, but we are living a very comfortable life now, like we always did.  The secret is to live within your means.  Hopefully, when this all shakes out, you will be able to get a job in whatever field you are studying for and you can than put into practice these principles. 

oakleaf

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2020, 09:29:24 AM »
Thank you for all your thoughtful responses. I will add some more details you asked about, but I will leave some details out. Reading my posts, people who know me would likely figure out who I am. And to clarify, I left my tech job in 2015, not 2012. 2012 is when I learned about FIRE.

  • Reflecting on past jobs and what I like to do: I was a pretty terrible coder and don't have much affinity for technical work at a high professional level. I tried doing what I liked as hobbies for work and realized that changes the whole dynamic. Cooking at home is fun, but it's not the same when you are putting out a hundred dishes with an angry chef yelling at you. I worked at a grocery store briefly making nearly minimum wage. This is a job that somehow felt okay even if the pay sucked and people were unhappy. I imagine if I could become a part of a grocery store or some kind of food manufacturing and distribution company that is able to pay people well okay and treat them well, I might be satisfied, but I am not sure if such companies exist.
  • What grad program I am in: I don't want to be too specific on this. I will just say the social sciences. Very different from what I used to do.
  • Personal situation: Single with no kids. This is probably another dimension that affected me. I failed at romance, so this is an aspect of my life I have given up for a long time. I wonder if life would have looked more interesting and jobs more tolerable if I had a family.
  • Finances: As for debt, I have a credit card bill I pay off every month and currently have $3,000 in debt for tuition. Rather than selling my stocks to pay for my tuition (the dividends are not enough), I have opened up a secondary stock account which acts as the collateral for a line of credit. At this current rate, I estimate I will last for another five years until I completely deplete my non-IRA assets if I don't make any money. I also have a very small IRA, which I am planning on not touching.
  • Living situation: Renting a small studio apartment. This is a luxury I pay for after I have roomed with a lot of different people in the past decade and had challenges.
  • The question of quitting grad school: This is big. The dilemma is I tried so many things and gave up, so if I give it up now, it will be another big red mark on my resume. My resume has so many holes.
  • Some places I see where I can save: Cook at home as much as possible. Cheap entertainment.
  • Generating income is the remaining big question: I have some part-time jobs that might become available in the next few weeks.

Thank you again for your inputs. It helps to get different perspectives on this matter.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 09:32:47 AM by oakleaf »

Monkey Uncle

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2020, 10:09:51 AM »

1. Have any of you lost your way but found your way back? If so, how?

Not sure I'd say I lost my way, but it certainly took me a long time to get where I am.  I had the basic concept of FIRE in mind as far back as the early '90s.  I always knew I didn't want to work a normal job until I was in my 60s.  But getting there quickly just was not realistic when paired with decisions I made about having a family, facilitating my wife's job as a SAHM, working in a career that had at least some meaning beyond money, and living a halfway decent middle class existence.  There just wasn't enough money to facilitate a 50+% savings rate for much of my career.  We also made some blunders along the way, chief among them being allowing our spending to grow along with my income, until one day I realized I had finally achieved an upper middle class income, but we were still spending way more than half of it.  So that's when I got serious about FIRE and MMM.  From there it took about 5 years of concerted tracking, cost-cutting, saving, and investing to reach the point where I could quit my job.  But of course that was just the final leap from a 20-year head start of living within our means, avoiding expensive debt, and saving and investing what we could.

That story may not seem very pertinent to your situation.  But I think the take-away message is this: Getting to FIRE is a marathon, not a sprint, even if you are disciplined enough to live an ERE lifestyle.  Even that road will take you a number of years, and if you have no joy in your life, you won't make it to the end.  You have to find the balance between making/saving piles of money and living a life that you want to live.  For me, that balance involved working a full-time career for 25 years, because that allowed me to have a life at the front end instead of just becoming a saving and investing machine, and then trying to have a life later.

Quote
2. In my current situation (back in school, no stable job or income), what would you suggest I do now and for the summer to make the best out of my situation? I am talking about rebuilding myself, adding to my savings, and improving my job prospects. Would it be a good idea for me to get any job out there, even if it pays minimum wage?

That all depends on how much money you have, how fast you are going through it, how long school will take, and what your earning prospects are once you finish school.  Obviously if you can tolerate working and going to school at the same time, that will start rebuilding your savings faster.  But the point about rebuilding yourself is important.  I said it before, but it bears repeating: at all times, you need a life that you want to live; it can't just be 100% delayed gratification for years on end.


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3. How would I find an ideal job that has the right balance of income and stress? Or do I just have to tough it out as long as it pays okay since work is not supposed to be fun? I have not yet found a job that I love. And I discovered some of the most stressful jobs out there are also some of the lowest-paying

If you read through this, I thank you. I would appreciate your advice.

I don't think the ideal job exists.  I can't say I ever really liked any job that I had, despite choosing a career field that was meaningful to me.  I mean, if I was just working for fun and not money, I don't think I would have chosen any of the jobs I had.  But I found work that had enough meaning and was interesting enough that I could tolerate doing it for years at a time.  Heck, some days I even felt the satisfaction of a job well done.

It's not rocket science, and there is no magic formula.  Start by identifying your aptitudes and interests, then explore career fields related to those.  See how much training and experience is required, then ask yourself if you're willing to make that investment.  And then approach it with the knowledge that you are still going to experience a lot of stress and frustration on a daily basis.  That's why they call it work.  But if it's work that has at least some meaning and/or enjoyment for you, then you are much more likely to stick it out for how ever many years it takes for you to reach FI.  And the work you want to do might change a couple of times along the way.  At least three times during my 25-year career, I got burned out to the point that I had to change jobs (though still within my overall field).

mozar

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2020, 10:40:17 AM »
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I am working with different people to try to resolve some negative inner patterns, which is a pretty tough road ahead. But that's another topic.
I disagree that that's another topic. I don't think you will find a job you enjoy until you do the work of resolving these issues. Because it's not about the work itself but your inner peace. Any job can be satisfying.
I did something similar to you in that 2 years ago I lost my job and I had no plan. I decided to focus on my mental health. My back up plan was to sell my house and use it to buy land in the desert and live as a hermit.
I have seen maybe 5 therapists trying to find one I didn't hate. I have seen 2 psychiatrists. I was diagnosed with major depression which was a relief honestly. I first tried wellbutrin which wasn't worth the side effects. Now I'm on zoloft which is better. I have read books on narcissism, borderline personality disorder, PTSD, and cbt. Posting on this forum helped me. I have stopped speaking to my mother.
I got a job teaching music to little kids which was awful. I renovated my kitchen myself and used the before and after pictures to get a job as a carpenter. Also awful. I tried a lot of other jobs.
 In the meantime I decided to re teach myself math using kahn academy. I have been doing well in that and decided to look into becoming a math teacher. I had no math propensity when I was younger. I got about as low of a math score on the SAT as you can get. But having your mental health changes everything.  Hope that helps.

CodingHare

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2020, 10:47:12 AM »
1. Have any of you lost your way but found your way back? If so, how?

Sort of?  I had a super awesome job with coworkers I liked and great managers.  Then the layer of management above them changed.  Within two years half the department had quit/retired, and I switched jobs because I was literally breaking down crying at work from the pressure.  That traumatic experience basically dragged me down for a year.  I tried jumping out of software into management to get some control of my life.  Found that I didn't like management.  Jumped into two jobs just trying to escape.

What helped me find my way back was building up my emergency fund to half a year's expenses.  I finally felt like I could say no to unreasonable requests.  I felt like I could quit and be okay, which actually made me want to quit less.  My job felt less like a burden and more like the business transaction of time for money that it should--without me feeling taken advantage of.

2. In my current situation (back in school, no stable job or income), what would you suggest I do now and for the summer to make the best out of my situation? I am talking about rebuilding myself, adding to my savings, and improving my job prospects. Would it be a good idea for me to get any job out there, even if it pays minimum wage?
...
I imagine if I could become a part of a grocery store or some kind of food manufacturing and distribution company that is able to pay people well okay and treat them well, I might be satisfied, but I am not sure if such companies exist.

If you are willing to take the risk, there are a ton of grocery jobs out there paying hazard pay right now.  I'd consider that if you need money.  Costco is well known for being a good employer.  Winco is a West Coast (Washington only?) employee owned chain.  Look into equivalents in your area.  Honestly, if you are happiest just doing grocery work, is the degree even going to be worth it for you?  You don't need higher education to stock shelves, and it's easier to get ahead there without student loan debt.

3. How would I find an ideal job that has the right balance of income and stress? Or do I just have to tough it out as long as it pays okay since work is not supposed to be fun? I have not yet found a job that I love. And I discovered some of the most stressful jobs out there are also some of the lowest-paying

I will pull some numbers out of my a** here: for me it is 70% my own attitude and 30% the job.  If I feel good about myself and like I can walk away, even a shitty job situation with overtime feels good.  If I feel like a worthless person and like the work is meaningless but I can't quit because I'm not sure I can get another job quickly enough, I feel shitty even if the job is great.

friedmmj

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2020, 10:49:28 AM »
I really like Monkey Uncle's comments.  Some very wise feedback there.

I would add that the long term economic return on a given career path is very dependent on your ability to gain specialized knowledge that is useful to as wide a range of employers as possible.  In other words, if you want to command a high salary, do not choose jobs that are not dependent on specific training or education or that are filled with too many people of the same training or education.  Sorry if this is stating the obvious.

Also, once you find yourself in a favorable job arrangement as defined by the stability and macro growth prospects of your employer in its industry and particularly if the management of that employer is reasonably stable and effective, then do your best to milk that employment for as long as possible.  Conversely, if and when it becomes apparent that these conditions do not exist, then make sure you are continually searching out better options. 

Catbert

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2020, 11:43:33 AM »
Do you have a concrete realistic plan for what you are doing with the degree you're working on?  A graduate degree in social science when you can't get a TA job doesn't sound promising. 

My sibling (PhD in Political Science and university professor)always says you should never pay out of pocket for a graduate degree.  Employer pays because you're valuable to them.  Or school gives you teaching or research assistant because they value you.  Obviously this doesn't apply to all graduate education (medical school springs to mind).  But if others in your program got TA or RA jobs and you didn't why would the job market be different?

oakleaf

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2020, 12:49:40 PM »
@Catbert, you bring a point that I am struggling with: "But if others in your program got TA or RA jobs and you didn't why would the job market be different?" I think about 30% of the people in my program don't have TA jobs. Basically, they recruited more students than they have jobs for, and it doesn't look great if you are one of the people that didn't get the TA or RA jobs. In terms of finances and skills gained, polarization can happen between the students, which is a bad situation. I got one more year remaining out of two years, and the question is whether it makes sense to finish just to say I have a degree or figure out something over the summer and move on. Friends, family, and faculty I talked to lean toward finishing the degree, but they have a biased perspective. A few people who didn't win TA jobs managed to get good jobs afterwards but they had solid job experiences before and during the program.

I had a weak plan when I entered the program which has shifted. After all the other job attempts didn't work out, I thought it would make sense to enter graduate school and improve myself, which I am questioning as I explained. On the other hand, I don't have a concrete alternative plan, so quitting right now doesn't sound that great either. Some of the options available I see are:
1. Stay with the program and make the best out of it with internships, volunteering, jobs, and training even if I don't get TA/RA.
2. Figure out a viable option over the summer and move on.

SunnyDays

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2020, 02:10:26 PM »
I have a graduate degree in psychology and I was a TA in grad school.  The TA work really didn’t have a lot of value in my career.  It was just a way to earn money, which you can do with a part time job of any sort.

You have one year left, which in the length of a lifetime is very little, so DON’T quit now.  Suck it up and finish.  You will have many more job choices down the road.  As others have said, you will not love everything about any job.  Focus on what you do like about it, do your best, and find other activities that are meaningful to you.  Save hard whatever road you choose, but commit to one.  You could spend your whole life bouncing from one thing to another and not be any happier or further ahead for it.

moneytaichi

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2020, 09:22:57 PM »
Why do you not mind working at grocery shops, even if the pay sucks and people are unhappy? That can tell you what you enjoy, e.g. people, culture, flexibility, physical work, or autonomy.

Have you tried your hands on the fields related to your graduate study? That will tell you more than anything on if they are good fits with your interests and strengths, and how you can discover a feasible path.

It seems that you probably are better off than many of your classmates since many of them need to take loans. If I were in your shoes, I'd focus on the career strategy (i.e. types of jobs you will find, preparation to get your feet in the door even it's only volunteering, and network like crazy). When I was at college, I worked a very part-time at our campus helpdesk, which aligned with my major in management information systems. That experience, along with glowing recommendations from my supervisor, paved the road for me get 4 job offers after graduation. TA may not help your resume since it can be academic-focused, unless you win the hearts of your professors and he/she is willing to go out of way to connect you with his/her network.

Have you looked into your school alumni network and use their career services? I actually submitted my resume to my school's career office's database. I was surprised to hear the HR from a major Corporation called me because of that. And I got a job from them 2 months later. You never know which seeds will flourish. Just keep sowing seeds everyday.

oakleaf

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2020, 07:58:35 AM »
Thank you everyone for your insights. I will answer some questions from moneytaichi. I think the main challenge is that I don't have a clear path right now that I can commit to. If I can find a path and stick with it, that would help me get to FIRE. At this point, it may just be FI without the Retire Early part.

Why do you not mind working at grocery shops, even if the pay sucks and people are unhappy? That can tell you what you enjoy, e.g. people, culture, flexibility, physical work, or autonomy.
I think it's a combination of moving my body and providing essential products to people. In the tech world, even though the money was good, I had a nagging feeling a lot of it was BS and did not like staring at a monitor all day.

Have you tried your hands on the fields related to your graduate study? That will tell you more than anything on if they are good fits with your interests and strengths, and how you can discover a feasible path.
I had volunteered in fields related to my study before school started. I also took some courses that are taught by people in the field and simulate some of the work people do. As I went through these experiences and also interviewed people in the field, it started dawning on me I won't enjoy the most typical career path for my graduate  study. I have been communicating this with some professors, and one of them is actually very open to helping me steer the program to get me closer to the jobs I am more interested in, which right now is working in larger practical businesses with social missions, profitability, and improving how we distribute food and other supplies.

Have you looked into your school alumni network and use their career services?
I have reached out directly to some alums and the result has been mixed. I definitely need to improve my networking skills.


Zette

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2020, 10:08:52 AM »
I highly recommend the book “I Don’t Know What I Want, But I Know It’s Not This”. It has several exercises where you analyze what you liked and disliked about previous jobs and helps you identify a path forward.

Bateaux

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2020, 01:18:15 PM »
I'm of the age and wealth that I should be able to give the perfect advice to younger people finding their way.   Unfortunately, that knowledge and wisdom seems to be evading me.  I still don't have a plan.  My plan is not to plan.  I'm still working at a job that is not exciting but pays well.  Work won't always be an adventure and exaltation.  Sometimes it's just work trading dollars for hours.  Save and invest enough and one day you can just jump off the wagon to the salt mines and declare freedom.  My job has been a never ending provider for me and my family.  Would I rather be a Forest Ranger? Hell yeah.  Would I rather be a marine biologist?  Hell yeah.  There are all kinds of cool jobs that don't pay shit.  Those people chose a career that they probably get pleasure from.  They certainly add to the greater good.  A mustacian lifestyle even with those jobs can lead to financial success. 

partgypsy

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2020, 02:14:01 PM »
Thank you everyone for your insights. I will answer some questions from moneytaichi. I think the main challenge is that I don't have a clear path right now that I can commit to. If I can find a path and stick with it, that would help me get to FIRE. At this point, it may just be FI without the Retire Early part.

Why do you not mind working at grocery shops, even if the pay sucks and people are unhappy? That can tell you what you enjoy, e.g. people, culture, flexibility, physical work, or autonomy.
I think it's a combination of moving my body and providing essential products to people. In the tech world, even though the money was good, I had a nagging feeling a lot of it was BS and did not like staring at a monitor all day.

Have you tried your hands on the fields related to your graduate study? That will tell you more than anything on if they are good fits with your interests and strengths, and how you can discover a feasible path.
I had volunteered in fields related to my study before school started. I also took some courses that are taught by people in the field and simulate some of the work people do. As I went through these experiences and also interviewed people in the field, it started dawning on me I won't enjoy the most typical career path for my graduate  study. I have been communicating this with some professors, and one of them is actually very open to helping me steer the program to get me closer to the jobs I am more interested in, which right now is working in larger practical businesses with social missions, profitability, and improving how we distribute food and other supplies.

Have you looked into your school alumni network and use their career services?
I have reached out directly to some alums and the result has been mixed. I definitely need to improve my networking skills.

If you only have a year left and it won't put you in a financial hole, to me it does make sense to finish it. Muster up a positive, interested attitude where you are, and try to make the most of this time. I don't know if the master's has a particular obvious career path like academic and you aren't particularly excited by that, be honest. Let your advisor, other professional contacts know. Say I like this area, but I am open to what I want to do with it, (aka what ELSE can I do with this background/degree?) Sometimes advisors or school only advertise or push the obvious or more prestigious career path. The school should also have a career development office, and alumni network.   If you do get to the point of finding some contacts in areas you are interested in, whether through school or without, don't contact to ask for a job. Offer to take them to coffee, or lunch, compliment them and basically pick their brain. 
You are actually in not a bad situation.

LightStache

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2020, 05:20:30 PM »
When I first started working, I had a terrible time because of the BS quotient. I thought work was supposed to be fulfilling and it wasn't. That led me to do some stupid things in 2008 - 2010 that were bad for my finances. I was definitely in a worse spot than you are now.

How did I recover? I applied for a lot of jobs and put a ton of time into customizing my resumes for each position. Then I took the best job I was offered and just ground it out. It wasn't about being happy or fulfilled, it was about surviving and getting ahead.

That's the mindset I recommend for you. Just get back into a professional job (after you finish your program) and gut it out for two years minimum, then you'll be in a position of strength to work on your next move.

My resume has so many holes.

This is what I think you should work on over the summer. When people interview you, they are looking to put together a story of who you are and if you'd be a good fit for the job. Think about how you can weave together a positive story of you that's going to sell and do something over the summer to solidify the story. The story should not include any false facts but it certainly doesn't need to include facts that don't make you look good. A career coach might be a worthwhile investment here.

moneytaichi

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2020, 11:06:06 PM »
"one of them is actually very open to helping me steer the program to get me closer to the jobs I am more interested in, which right now is working in larger practical businesses with social missions, profitability, and improving how we distribute food and other supplies."

I think you may have found a good intersection to explore, which overlays social mission, sustainability (i.e. profitability) and fair distribution. Coronavirus has exposed lots of social inequality in many areas. I think your field will flourish as a result of the virus.

I had a colleague who earned top dollars as an IT security expert, but his field didn't fulfill him so he quit his job (after several years of planning) and went to the graduate school to study the epidemic analytics. He applied his old IT skills to a field that he feels passionate about. Can you envision yourself using your IT skills to solve a food distribution equality issue in a sustainable way, which work with colleagues who share the same passion? If you can bring your past skills and experience to a field that you feel passionate about, your story (and life path) will fall into places because you worked in both IT and the food industry. You will shine over your competition.

oakleaf

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Re: Lost my mustache way five years ago. Trying to get back.
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2020, 10:12:00 AM »
Thank you all for your insights and support. It's a tough road ahead for me, but I will keep my eyes open and look for opportunities and improve myself.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!