Author Topic: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!  (Read 7529 times)

TeeNixx

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Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« on: January 22, 2020, 10:34:29 PM »
You are working away at your cubicle minding your own business while building your stash to get out of there.
It sounds like the life for many of us.

But be careful with your appearance and especially how you get to work.
Driving that 15-year-old beater with duct tape keeping the front fender in place might put you at risk.....

Or even worse - gasp, are you riding your bike to work? 

You might be viewed as a liability.
Quote
"Gee, if Steve doesn't have a nice car, then he must have bad credit;
therefore, he's a risk, and if he is a risk, we must fire him".

Quite amazing. https://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/its-perfectly-legal-for-your-boss-to-tell-you-to-drive-a-nicer-car.html
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 11:05:12 PM by TeeNixx »

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2020, 10:51:29 PM »
Hard to believe it's real. I assume it's a small company and the HR "vice president" is just an idiot trying to throw his/her weight around.

Dicey

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2020, 11:40:55 PM »
When I was in the accumulation phase, I challenged myself and made it a game to never, ever look like the furious saver I was. You don't have to look like crap/live in a hovel, etc. in order to reach FIRE.

Once at a meeting, I overheard a colleague say "I'd hate to pay her Nordstrom bill." Took me a while to figure out they were talking about me. Little did they know...

This article does seem over the top though.

Maenad

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2020, 04:59:50 AM »
Any article that reinforces the idea that we "deserve nice things" and should live at or above our means will always get clicks. Responsibility is boring.

I intend on spending this summer being boring in a hammock under a tree with a glass of lemonade* and a book.


*Or possibly a bottle of cider.

cupcakery

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2020, 05:46:08 AM »
So ridiculous.  My husband replaced his beater car a few years ago with a new (to us) car.  A coworker said something like, "Now you don't look destitute."  To which my husband replied, "Incidentally, we have less money now than when we had the old car."  Many of the people he works with who make significantly less than he does, drive high-end new cars.  Cars aren't really something we care that much about other than having one and having it be safe and dependable. 

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2020, 06:22:52 AM »
I can understand the argument with biking.  Many years ago, I would bike 11 miles each day to and from work.  On hot days, it could be difficult to be presentable with how much I was sweating, since my office didn't have a shower.  I would have to quickly change clothes and brush my hair (messy from the helmet) when I got to work, but I still wasn't as put together as someone who hadn't just biked that distance.
Where I work now, we have to park further away than where the patients park.  We all get to work when it is dark.  I have no idea whose car is whose and it really isn't the sort of thing that would occur to me to notice.  I have never heard any of my coworkers compare cars.  The only concern I hear my coworkers talking about with regards to their cars is making sure that patients don't know which car is theirs and where their car is parked, as they don't want an angry patient to retaliate by damaging their car.
When I was doing a clinical rotation in the Kensington neighborhood in Philly, the doctor I was working with would drive his Porsche to work.  We all thought that was insane, given the level of violence and drugs in that area.  We were all afraid of what would happen to our cars when they were parked in that neighborhood, no matter what kind of car it was.

The Guru

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2020, 07:00:45 AM »
Maybe the company's afraid he's saving enough money to get the hell out of there.

OtherJen

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2020, 07:13:16 AM »
Hard to believe it's real. I assume it's a small company and the HR "vice president" is just an idiot trying to throw his/her weight around.

If it’s in the US and in a “right to work” state, it could very well be real.

Yes, it is stupid.

2sk22

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2020, 07:23:59 AM »
From the article:
Quote
There are some professions where it makes sense for your employees to have nice cars. If you're driving clients around, it would be nice if it wasn't in a 1984-era hatchback with no air conditioning and seats held together with duct tape.

I still recall that the realtor who showed us homes in the mid 1990s drove an old Toyota Corolla with inoperative air conditioning. She was a great sales person and was very fair with us - we did end up buying a house through her. We did not ding her because of her car.

Conversely, a young guy who joined my old company at about the same time as I did, went out and bought a Lexus immediately. The rest of us new hires bought boring, inexpensive and practical cars. The gambit worked - thanks to the car Mr Lexus created an aura of success and got promoted rapidly.

Dicey

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2020, 07:34:38 AM »
From the article:
Quote
There are some professions where it makes sense for your employees to have nice cars. If you're driving clients around, it would be nice if it wasn't in a 1984-era hatchback with no air conditioning and seats held together with duct tape.

I still recall that the realtor who showed us homes in the mid 1990s drove an old Toyota Corolla with inoperative air conditioning. She was a great sales person and was very fair with us - we did end up buying a house through her. We did not ding her because of her car.

Conversely, a young guy who joined my old company at about the same time as I did, went out and bought a Lexus immediately. The rest of us new hires bought boring, inexpensive and practical cars. The gambit worked - thanks to the car Mr Lexus created an aura of success and got promoted rapidly.
Yeah, but who's FIRE now?

mtn

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2020, 07:39:53 AM »
A 2005 Camry could be perfectly fine, nobody would really know if it is 5 years old or 20 years old or really care, if it is in nice condition. But if the paint is faded (the only thing mentioned - probably the shitty white that Toyota put on cars for awhile) with scratches and dings and steel wheels, it could look like shit even if it is a fully functioning reliable car. And the fact is, it can matter, even if you're not driving clients or anyone in your car. It is in the parking garage for the company, it might reflect poorly on the company.


At the end of the day, chances are that a $200 detail and possibly some new wheels would shut anyone up.

2sk22

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2020, 07:56:12 AM »
Yeah, but who's FIRE now?

Me, for sure :-)

Unfortunately, I lost touch with Mr Lexus so I have no idea what he's doing (this happened about 25 years ago). But his strategy was a real eye opener to me. Until that point, it had never occurred to me how much importance most people place on visible symbols of "success" like cars.

GodlessCommie

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2020, 08:43:45 AM »
Biking can be seen as hip and desirable. The only guy at my previous place who commuted by bike in any weather definitely got extra cool points for it. He was also not shy about his level of fitness, and health benefits bike commute provided.

It was a startup, though, so while people didn't know exactly how much other people were paid, the unspoken understanding was that most everyone was at least solidly in the middle class. I imagine things may be different in a different corporate or even regional culture. Also, we had a shower.

roomtempmayo

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2020, 08:46:20 AM »
And the fact is, it can matter, even if you're not driving clients or anyone in your car. It is in the parking garage for the company, it might reflect poorly on the company.

Funny, but in my field if anyone noticed at all, I expect it would be the opposite: please keep your Porsche at home, we don't want the people paying the bills to think their money is going for sports cars.  A 2005 Camry would be a demonstration the the organization is a good steward of resources.

Fishindude

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2020, 08:48:18 AM »
You need to find some middle ground.   
You don't have to look like a bum and drive a rust bucket to be saving for retirement, and you don't have to drive a BMW and dress to the nines to look like a big shot.

If you are hauling clients around in a personal vehicle, it should be something relatively late model, in good condition and very clean.

bacchi

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2020, 09:25:00 AM »
This happened to a doctor friend.

He joined a specialist practice and kept his on-the-edge Chevy. It made them feel skeezy since they were all driving $100k cars. They joked about it and then harassed him about it and then demanded he upgrade his car. He didn't and left the practice for another one.

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2020, 09:39:51 AM »
Yeah, but who's FIRE now?

Me, for sure :-)

Unfortunately, I lost touch with Mr Lexus so I have no idea what he's doing (this happened about 25 years ago). But his strategy was a real eye opener to me. Until that point, it had never occurred to me how much importance most people place on visible symbols of "success" like cars.

And definitely clothes and handbags/briefcases, shoes, watches, and hair and nails for both men and women.  To this day there is a very untalented guy in a top spot at my old job who got there because of all of the accoutrement and none of the talent.  He has the right kind of car, frosted tips in his hair and very high end shoes and briefcase.  He is useless but looking sharp. 

He once told a story about customer service where he got a bottle of perfume for his wife's birthday.  He talked about how he was in a rush and was so impressed that the "perfume counter girl" got his item, gift wrapped it, and brought it to his car as he was pulled over at the curb.  What a great story! 

Except he was telling this story to several dozen utility pipeline workers, standing there with tanned faces, calloused hands, and dried mud on their boots.  Every one of those welders, fitters and dirt jockeys was smarter than the schmuck talking about his fancy-shmancy date with privilege.  What a clueless dork.   

But hey, have you seen how he looks!  ugh.     

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2020, 09:43:45 AM »
Any article that reinforces the idea that we "deserve nice things" and should live at or above our means will always get clicks. Responsibility is boring.

I intend on spending this summer being boring in a hammock under a tree with a glass of lemonade* and a book.


*Or possibly a bottle of cider.

My outdoor hammock (I have an indoor one too) hangs between two pine trees.
 
Below it is a carpet of pine needles.

Their piney scent is delightful.

socaso

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2020, 09:44:36 AM »
I deal with a lot of small business owners in my line of work and have occasionally joked about my car being a beater but I have no payment and I like it that way. Generally they all think I'm being wise to drive this way. Last week a client had to get in my car and I made my joke about my beater and she said she just bought the first new car she had ever owned in her life. This is a person with a multi million dollar business and residences in at least two states I'm aware of. Sensible people think it's smart to drive a car you can afford.

MyAlterEgoIsTaller

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2020, 10:09:04 AM »
I've wondered about how to balance this issue at work. 
There's this risk that not spending the money to dress the part will hinder my advancement and even retainability. 
Also I assume that my employer is aware, or has the capability to be aware, of how much I'm putting into my 401k, so they might not just think that I should be able to spend more on cars and clothes, but also that I'm not in need of any big raises.
So I feel some pressure to show more evidence of spending and possibly hide my saving.

On the other side of this, I had some minor surgery recently and was researching my surgeon online beforehand, and I found a negative review in which a former patient found out that the surgeon owns two very expensive cars, and felt this was evidence of the doctor's profit motive in recommending surgery.  Perhaps in that field it might be advantageous to drive a beater.

mtn

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2020, 10:09:56 AM »
And the fact is, it can matter, even if you're not driving clients or anyone in your car. It is in the parking garage for the company, it might reflect poorly on the company.

Funny, but in my field if anyone noticed at all, I expect it would be the opposite: please keep your Porsche at home, we don't want the people paying the bills to think their money is going for sports cars.  A 2005 Camry would be a demonstration the the organization is a good steward of resources.

Oh, absolutely. It varies significantly industry to industry, geographical area to geographical area, and company to company. For instance, my dad passed on buying a Saturn and got a SAAB that was on the same platform as a different Saturn in part because of the potential impact on his career since a Saturn could look poorly. But he was director/executive level. My brother sold his Toyota because he was in sales in a very 'Murica! area, so he got a Chevy instead.

Me? Doesn't matter one iota. I don't see anyone at work who will really impact my career path and I don't ever see customers - not to mention my office shares a parking lot with a temp agency, so you see jalopies in and out all the time. So I drive a car with 300k miles (albeit a Lexus). But my point is that it CAN be an impact, and if I was a business owner I might have a similar reaction to the manager in this article.

mtn

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2020, 10:15:47 AM »
I've wondered about how to balance this issue at work. 
There's this risk that not spending the money to dress the part will hinder my advancement and even retainability. 
Also I assume that my employer is aware, or has the capability to be aware, of how much I'm putting into my 401k, so they might not just think that I should be able to spend more on cars and clothes, but also that I'm not in need of any big raises.


Don't overthink it. $250 at Costco will get you 8-10 dress shirts (go with all oxford blue, white, or similar), multiple pairs of slacks, and you'll look extremely professional. That'll last you about 3-10 years. Budget another $40 a year for it incase you rip a seam or something.

Car? Silver Accord or Camry/Avalon, Highlander or CRV. Go with the Lexus version if you have to cart customers around and look fancy. Prius if you want to never pay for gas. All are affordable for most mustachians, and can probably be found in good condition for less than $5k and last you 15 years. You won't be impressing anyone, but you won't make anyone think you're a bum either.

But chances are even that is overthinking it if you maintain your car and wash it once a month or so.

KBCB

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2020, 10:25:42 AM »
Once at a meeting, I overheard a colleague say "I'd hate to pay her Nordstrom bill." Took me a while to figure out they were talking about me. Little did they know...

How did you shop to look so good on the cheap?

mm1970

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2020, 10:40:21 AM »
When I was in the accumulation phase, I challenged myself and made it a game to never, ever look like the furious saver I was. You don't have to look like crap/live in a hovel, etc. in order to reach FIRE.

Once at a meeting, I overheard a colleague say "I'd hate to pay her Nordstrom bill." Took me a while to figure out they were talking about me. Little did they know...

This article does seem over the top though.
This is awesome.  Two funny things this week:

I cannot remember how the convo came up, and who I was talking to - but we were talking about just general expenses. Oh yeah, it was the kid's dentist.  Kid 1 has braces (coming off soon), kid 2 is 7 and is definitely gonna need them, but will wait till junior high, just like we did with #1.

Dentist said "it's nice that there's a break, because sometimes you just want to replace a car or something".  Our cars are 2006 and 2009 models, so she's not wrong.  I still love my Matrix.  Apparently, people REALLY want the 2009 Civic because both the Honda dealer AND independent car dealers keep sending us stuff wanting to buy it.  No thanks, that car is still a baby and only has about 85k miles on it.

Our new dog (a rescue) is gonna need surgery too.  My first comment upon seeing the upcoming bill "hey, it's less than braces, we're good!"

Dicey

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2020, 11:11:17 AM »
Once at a meeting, I overheard a colleague say "I'd hate to pay her Nordstrom bill." Took me a while to figure out they were talking about me. Little did they know...

How did you shop to look so good on the cheap?
I was in outside sales, so I only saw the big bosses and most of my colleagues at semi-annual company meetings. I shopped sales/thrifts/consignment and saved my "new" clothes for these meetings. I never wore an outfit that I'd worn to a previous meeting. I made sure everything was perfectly clean and crisp. I scheduled haircuts right before the meetings and did my own manicures. I actually think it was being well groomed that created the impression of being expensively dressed. The effort really did pay off, but so did the fact that I was decently good at my job.

I want to add that the goal was never to one-up my colleagues. I was saving my ass off long before FIRE was a thing. At the time, my goal was to buy a house in my HCOLA. I never wanted to appear cheap, so I looked for ways to creatively spend less without deprivation. It worked so well, I've continued to do so long past FIRE. It's just habit now. Ironically, looking "wealthy" seems to have manifested into actually being wealthy, which totally cracks me up.

use2betrix

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2020, 11:25:40 AM »
Many of my coworkers are in the procurement/cost/project management group and all know what I make, which is a very high amount. I still typically drive my 1999 Camry to the job site most days. Everyone knows what I drive because it’s parked right outside the construction trailers.

There is, however, the slight downside that I’m unable to drive the car on certain project locations due to lack of ground clearance and 4wd (i.e. the muddy right of way while installing a pipeline). If absolutely needed, my wife and I also have a 4Runner that I drive sometimes.

I have more of an office job, however by car is a bit of a downside as it shows I certainly won’t be out in the field overseeing the work those days.. at least not to my full extent..

Bateaux

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2020, 11:29:52 AM »
The car I drive to work is 12 years old.  It has duct tape on the grill and fender.   It has over 200k miles and isn't trustworthy enough for long distance trips anymore.  I doubt HR would care unless it was leaking oil in the parking lot.  Coworkers do laugh at my old 2008 Accord.  Some of them know that I'm a millionaire and want to be millionaires as well.  The majority just can't stop spending on cars and other crap.  A few have figured it out and will be successful.  HR loves seeing all those new expensive cars on the lot because they know they own those workers for a long time. 

eljefe-speaks

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2020, 11:41:17 AM »
My coworkers and I signed up to do offsite charity work. This gave me the opportunity to see what everyone drives, because we work in a high-rise and people park all over the city. An upper-level-mgmt guy, who I would assume makes 2 to 3 times my salary (and I am doing OK), showed up in a beater 90's Ford F150. Since I am a mustachian, my respect for him absolutely spiked. And even if it is perhaps not his only car, I am glad he did not give a hoot about what people though about it. If he ever saw my '09 Matrix, I'd probably get an attaboy.

Plina

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2020, 12:37:59 PM »
Once at a meeting, I overheard a colleague say "I'd hate to pay her Nordstrom bill." Took me a while to figure out they were talking about me. Little did they know...

How did you shop to look so good on the cheap?
I was in outside sales, so I only saw the big bosses and most of my colleagues at semi-annual company meetings. I shopped sales/thrifts/consignment and saved my "new" clothes for these meetings. I never wore an outfit that I'd worn to a previous meeting. I made sure everything was perfectly clean and crisp. I scheduled haircuts right before the meetings and did my own manicures. I actually think it was being well groomed that created the impression of being expensively dressed. The effort really did pay off, but so did the fact that I was decently good at my job.

I want to add that the goal was never to one-up my colleagues. I was saving my ass off long before FIRE was a thing. At the time, my goal was to buy a house in my HCOLA. I never wanted to appear cheap, so I looked for ways to creatively spend less without deprivation. It worked so well, I've continued to do so long past FIRE. It's just habit now. Ironically, looking "wealthy" seems to have manifested into actually being wealthy, which totally cracks me up.

I have bought some high quality stuff at sales that I use continously. I also mix and match without using the same top several times a week. Research show that most of the people  really don’t pay that much attention to what you wear so if you look put together nobody really cafés. I also have found that if you buy quality stuff it last a lo longer then the cheap stuff so the cost per wear is much lower.

Sounds like a crappy company to work for. I probably would look into finding a new job and try biking instead. I find it amazing that someone would care in this case and it is actually possible to fire someone over this kind of bullshit.

Interestingly it would look pretty bad if I drove to work everyday. I walk or take the bus depending on weather. My colleagues bike or take public transport.

Dicey

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2020, 01:37:55 PM »
Once at a meeting, I overheard a colleague say "I'd hate to pay her Nordstrom bill." Took me a while to figure out they were talking about me. Little did they know...

How did you shop to look so good on the cheap?
I was in outside sales, so I only saw the big bosses and most of my colleagues at semi-annual company meetings. I shopped sales/thrifts/consignment and saved my "new" clothes for these meetings. I never wore an outfit that I'd worn to a previous meeting. I made sure everything was perfectly clean and crisp. I scheduled haircuts right before the meetings and did my own manicures. I actually think it was being well groomed that created the impression of being expensively dressed. The effort really did pay off, but so did the fact that I was decently good at my job.

I want to add that the goal was never to one-up my colleagues. I was saving my ass off long before FIRE was a thing. At the time, my goal was to buy a house in my HCOLA. I never wanted to appear cheap, so I looked for ways to creatively spend less without deprivation. It worked so well, I've continued to do so long past FIRE. It's just habit now. Ironically, looking "wealthy" seems to have manifested into actually being wealthy, which totally cracks me up.

I have bought some high quality stuff at sales that I use continously. I also mix and match without using the same top several times a week. Research show that most of the people  really don’t pay that much attention to what you wear so if you look put together nobody really cafés. I also have found that if you buy quality stuff it last a lo longer then the cheap stuff so the cost per wear is much lower.

Dicey here. I'm assuming the part below is for the OP.  As to the above, I totally agree and do the same. I'm tall and have long arms, so higher quality stuff tends to fit better. Luckily, it lasts longer, so it's likely to still be in good condition when I find it at thrift and consignment stores. The strategy described above was one I developed in response to a specific job situation. Being adaptable is a great mustachian trait.

Sounds like a crappy company to work for. I probably would look into finding a new job and try biking instead. I find it amazing that someone would care in this case and it is actually possible to fire someone over this kind of bullshit.

Interestingly it would look pretty bad if I drove to work everyday. I walk or take the bus depending on weather. My colleagues bike or take public transport.

mm1970

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2020, 01:40:30 PM »
Once at a meeting, I overheard a colleague say "I'd hate to pay her Nordstrom bill." Took me a while to figure out they were talking about me. Little did they know...

How did you shop to look so good on the cheap?
I was in outside sales, so I only saw the big bosses and most of my colleagues at semi-annual company meetings. I shopped sales/thrifts/consignment and saved my "new" clothes for these meetings. I never wore an outfit that I'd worn to a previous meeting. I made sure everything was perfectly clean and crisp. I scheduled haircuts right before the meetings and did my own manicures. I actually think it was being well groomed that created the impression of being expensively dressed. The effort really did pay off, but so did the fact that I was decently good at my job.

I want to add that the goal was never to one-up my colleagues. I was saving my ass off long before FIRE was a thing. At the time, my goal was to buy a house in my HCOLA. I never wanted to appear cheap, so I looked for ways to creatively spend less without deprivation. It worked so well, I've continued to do so long past FIRE. It's just habit now. Ironically, looking "wealthy" seems to have manifested into actually being wealthy, which totally cracks me up.
Yes I think being well groomed, and also knowing how to dress yourself could be a big help.

Generally, I'm not terribly good at dressing myself.  However, I'm an engineer so it's not totally necessary.  I've been fooled a bit, also, by trends.  I do have some nice slacks that fit well and that I save for meetings.  However as flattering as they are, apparently boot cut "isn't a thing anymore", and one of my (male) engineering coworkers made a comment.  Eh, well. 

I have friends who always look very "put together".  I save that for a few times a year.

Oh, another funny this week.  I got my haircut.  I generally get it cut 2x a year, whenever it gets long enough that it starts to bug me at the gym.  I only have 1 elastic band for my ponytail, and I cannot seem to find it right now (I put it somewhere safe on my road trip...ugh).  Anyway, after a haircut it's a month or two before I can do the ponytail thing anyway.

Coworker dude "you got your hair cut!" 
Me: Yep.  Twice a year whether I need it or not. 
CWD "Well, I understand.  Women pay so much more than you probably get it done less frequently." 
Me: I paid $25. 
CWD: "Well, that's because you are an engineer".

I do love a fresh cut.  It does look more professional (slightly longer than chin length bob with long layers.  I have thin straight hair.)  She almost talked me into blonde highlights.  My hair is dark blond with quite an increasing amount of silver.  Dishwater blonde?

Lucky13

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2020, 09:49:49 PM »
The email reads to me like the company could actually be genuinely concerns about this employee, for example thinking he/she might have a gambling problem or something if they cannot afford a better car, and wanting to help.  I think it's kind of cute. Like something my Mom would say if I'm wearing ripped jeans, "are you doing ok???"  "No mom, I'm just being frugal and hate shopping but everthing's fine."

soccerluvof4

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2020, 02:24:57 AM »
The only concerning part to me was how they pointed to they know his salary and credit check and stated we know what you should be able to afford. To me this is invasion of privacy and instead of sending a letter first the face to face should of come first and then if there was some reason to send a letter maybe then.

Bateaux

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2020, 02:48:07 AM »
When signing on with our company you do agree to have reliable transportation.   As with most companies, transportation should never be a reason for not being to work on time.  There is no requirement for even owning a vehicle.  Personal appearance is dictated by OSHA.  Hair length and facial hair must be short in order for Self Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA) use.   We are issued uniforms, outerwear and boots from the company.   The uniforms are maintained by a service at work.  I'd hate to have to decide daily what to wear to work.  That must suck.

Moonwaves

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2020, 03:13:43 AM »

Laura33

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2020, 06:54:13 AM »
Part of the reason I like my firm is because despite being a bunch of lawyers, there's a very non-showy ethos (I think Camrys and Subarus are the most common vehicles).  One of our future managing partner's daily drivers was a massively beat-up Volvo that was at least 25 years old (the era that looked like a box on wheels), even though he had a late-model Town Car that he'd use when he needed to ferry clients around.  Another future managing partner drove an ugly white minivan because he needed to ferry kids around (once the kids left home, he upgraded to a newer Subaru).  And these were not struggling young lawyers; they were at the time among the highest-billers and highest-paid people at the firm.  It was just not a showy place.  I still remember when one of the younger partners bought a Jag (sedan, not even the hip convertible), and her fancy car became the point of jokes for a long time.  And then there was the guy who went out a bought a giant SUV, then realized it didn't fit in his tiny downtown garage and had to return it (although in terms of mockability, that one was just a drop in the bucket for that guy).

I assume that I was appropriately mocked behind my back when I got my StupidCar, and I'm ok with that, because I totally deserve it.  Although I will admit, there are a number of the older male partners who talk to me about it with a definite undertone of envy.  Honestly, I think I get away with it more than most because (a) I'm female and (b) everyone knows I've done the performance driving school a few times, so it comes across more as "really likes to drive" than "mid-life-crisis-penis-mobile." 

I hope.  ;-)

The email was ridiculous, but the article was awesome.  You gotta love it when you can find a professional to interview who is willing to flat-up call something "stupid."  That's my kind of people.

aspiringnomad

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2020, 11:19:22 PM »
Biking can be seen as hip and desirable. The only guy at my previous place who commuted by bike in any weather definitely got extra cool points for it. He was also not shy about his level of fitness, and health benefits bike commute provided.

It was a startup, though, so while people didn't know exactly how much other people were paid, the unspoken understanding was that most everyone was at least solidly in the middle class. I imagine things may be different in a different corporate or even regional culture. Also, we had a shower.

The increase in cycling over the last decade has been a cool cultural change to witness and I've got no time for any backlash against it. Back in the day, I biked to and from work every day no matter the weather, but have since become a wimpy motorcycle rider. Over that time I've seen more and more bikers out there, even in the middle of winter, and always appreciate the badassity.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2020, 12:27:24 AM »
Apparently, people REALLY want the 2009 Civic because both the Honda dealer AND independent car dealers keep sending us stuff wanting to buy it.  No thanks, that car is still a baby and only has about 85k miles on it.
You know these mailers are just a sales tactic to get you in the door, right?

MrsSpendyPants

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2020, 09:53:04 AM »
At my last review my boss told me I needed to get a new car.  I drive a 2008 Honda Civic.  I mentioned I was looking into a minivan and he said I needed a higher end SUV.  Still pondering what I want to do.  I never have clients in my car.

NorthernBlitz

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2020, 10:07:24 AM »
A 2005 Camry could be perfectly fine, nobody would really know if it is 5 years old or 20 years old or really care, if it is in nice condition. But if the paint is faded (the only thing mentioned - probably the shitty white that Toyota put on cars for awhile) with scratches and dings and steel wheels, it could look like shit even if it is a fully functioning reliable car. And the fact is, it can matter, even if you're not driving clients or anyone in your car. It is in the parking garage for the company, it might reflect poorly on the company.


At the end of the day, chances are that a $200 detail and possibly some new wheels would shut anyone up.

This is kind of how I feel.

Many old cars aren't all rusted up with bumpers falling off. I always thought part of being frugal was taking care of the things you did purchase. Because doing so will mean that you don't have to keep buying new stuff.

Villanelle

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2020, 10:17:46 AM »
A 2005 Camry could be perfectly fine, nobody would really know if it is 5 years old or 20 years old or really care, if it is in nice condition. But if the paint is faded (the only thing mentioned - probably the shitty white that Toyota put on cars for awhile) with scratches and dings and steel wheels, it could look like shit even if it is a fully functioning reliable car. And the fact is, it can matter, even if you're not driving clients or anyone in your car. It is in the parking garage for the company, it might reflect poorly on the company.


At the end of the day, chances are that a $200 detail and possibly some new wheels would shut anyone up.

This is kind of how I feel.

Many old cars aren't all rusted up with bumpers falling off. I always thought part of being frugal was taking care of the things you did purchase. Because doing so will mean that you don't have to keep buying new stuff.

Until it was recently sold (because we went down to one car), my 2000 Toyota Echo got so many questions.  it was in incredible shape.  (Only 89,000 miles.)  The Echo isn't made any more and wasn't very popular when it was.  People always thought it was a few years old, and perhaps some new model with which they weren't familiar.  They were shocked when I told them it was 20 years old. 

Plina

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2020, 02:44:58 PM »
At my last review my boss told me I needed to get a new car.  I drive a 2008 Honda Civic.  I mentioned I was looking into a minivan and he said I needed a higher end SUV.  Still pondering what I want to do.  I never have clients in my car.

I would probably count out the difference in cost and go to the boss and ask for a car raise. And would start to look for a new job. I don’t work for bosses that try to dictate my life outside of the office. One of the reasons I left my previous job was the micromanaging.

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2020, 07:17:31 PM »
Great news! Another person with dominating, jackass managers is going to find another job.  I guess I’m just a hopeless romantic. It always seems to warm my heart when that happens.

SpaceCow

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2020, 08:34:35 PM »
Luckily, the body on the Ford Crown Victoria didn't get a significant revision between 1998 and 2011 when production ended. My 1999 looks decent enough to pass for a later model if anyone cared (they don't). And most of the time I bike to work anyway.

Monerexia

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2020, 09:21:06 PM »
Fake of course, but any mustachian would be fine with having their credit checked if it came to that.

Just Joe

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2020, 09:53:42 AM »
Yeah, but who's FIRE now?

Me, for sure :-)

Unfortunately, I lost touch with Mr Lexus so I have no idea what he's doing (this happened about 25 years ago). But his strategy was a real eye opener to me. Until that point, it had never occurred to me how much importance most people place on visible symbols of "success" like cars.

And definitely clothes and handbags/briefcases, shoes, watches, and hair and nails for both men and women.  To this day there is a very untalented guy in a top spot at my old job who got there because of all of the accoutrement and none of the talent.  He has the right kind of car, frosted tips in his hair and very high end shoes and briefcase.  He is useless but looking sharp. 

He once told a story about customer service where he got a bottle of perfume for his wife's birthday.  He talked about how he was in a rush and was so impressed that the "perfume counter girl" got his item, gift wrapped it, and brought it to his car as he was pulled over at the curb.  What a great story! 

Except he was telling this story to several dozen utility pipeline workers, standing there with tanned faces, calloused hands, and dried mud on their boots.  Every one of those welders, fitters and dirt jockeys was smarter than the schmuck talking about his fancy-shmancy date with privilege.  What a clueless dork.   

But hey, have you seen how he looks!  ugh.   

So culturally tone deaf. I witnessed one of those conversations. Dude was talking about the finer points of his sports car to blue collar guys making a fraction of the money the sports car guy was. It was uncomfortable to witness. That was all the "cool" the sports car guy had so he'd drag that out all the time. People weren't as impressed as I think he thought they were. Nice guy but needs more variety to talk about.

Just Joe

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2020, 09:56:41 AM »
I deal with a lot of small business owners in my line of work and have occasionally joked about my car being a beater but I have no payment and I like it that way. Generally they all think I'm being wise to drive this way. Last week a client had to get in my car and I made my joke about my beater and she said she just bought the first new car she had ever owned in her life. This is a person with a multi million dollar business and residences in at least two states I'm aware of. Sensible people think it's smart to drive a car you can afford.

To me the key is not the age, but is it reasonably clean and smell okay? I occasionally ride with a person who drives a rolling garbage can. Takes so little time and effort...

KBCB

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2020, 10:46:10 AM »
Once at a meeting, I overheard a colleague say "I'd hate to pay her Nordstrom bill." Took me a while to figure out they were talking about me. Little did they know...

How did you shop to look so good on the cheap?
I was in outside sales, so I only saw the big bosses and most of my colleagues at semi-annual company meetings. I shopped sales/thrifts/consignment and saved my "new" clothes for these meetings. I never wore an outfit that I'd worn to a previous meeting. I made sure everything was perfectly clean and crisp. I scheduled haircuts right before the meetings and did my own manicures. I actually think it was being well groomed that created the impression of being expensively dressed. The effort really did pay off, but so did the fact that I was decently good at my job.

I want to add that the goal was never to one-up my colleagues. I was saving my ass off long before FIRE was a thing. At the time, my goal was to buy a house in my HCOLA. I never wanted to appear cheap, so I looked for ways to creatively spend less without deprivation. It worked so well, I've continued to do so long past FIRE. It's just habit now. Ironically, looking "wealthy" seems to have manifested into actually being wealthy, which totally cracks me up.

I have bought some high quality stuff at sales that I use continously. I also mix and match without using the same top several times a week. Research show that most of the people  really don’t pay that much attention to what you wear so if you look put together nobody really cafés. I also have found that if you buy quality stuff it last a lo longer then the cheap stuff so the cost per wear is much lower.

Dicey here. I'm assuming the part below is for the OP.  As to the above, I totally agree and do the same. I'm tall and have long arms, so higher quality stuff tends to fit better. Luckily, it lasts longer, so it's likely to still be in good condition when I find it at thrift and consignment stores. The strategy described above was one I developed in response to a specific job situation. Being adaptable is a great mustachian trait.

Sounds like a crappy company to work for. I probably would look into finding a new job and try biking instead. I find it amazing that someone would care in this case and it is actually possible to fire someone over this kind of bullshit.

Interestingly it would look pretty bad if I drove to work everyday. I walk or take the bus depending on weather. My colleagues bike or take public transport.

I am always struggling with my wardrobe. Usually I feel over dressed or underdressed. I wish I had a personal stylist! It seems like you have it figured out and that's awesome. I think part of my problem is not loving my body and after a bit of weight gain feeling like I barely ever look good. Maybe it's perspective I need to work on.

PeterParker

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Re: Living below your means? Watch up - you might be fired!
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2020, 01:49:47 PM »
Meh.

I'm wearing $500 Suede Italian monk strap loafers from Nordstrom Rack that cost me $80 new.
I live in a luxury apartment that my mid 70s landlord is charging me well beyond market value for some reason.

It's easy to both live well below your means, but also live like a king for cheap.

I don't drive a car but --- no one really sees that. I arrive via Lyft if necessary.

I really don't think a place would fire you -- unless you look extremely unkept or unhygienic. They should know how much they're paying you.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!