Author Topic: Live drama-job offer is in.  (Read 3731 times)

hoping2retire35

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Live drama-job offer is in.
« on: May 31, 2018, 10:38:49 AM »
Dropped off my resume Tuesday for a position I had applied for earlier but was unable, due to the website, submit a resume, cover letter, and references. They ended up giving me a impromptu 40 minute interview right then. Yesterday (Wednesday) I sent a thank you email. Today I checked my email and they offered me the position.

The job itself would be a step up, prestige wise, more fun and interesting.

Closer to home and the kids school, and in the same county, (far side of the big-little town though), but overall shorter drive and less driving in general.

The offer is for a 5% raise, ugh. I want at least 10%

They would put a lot more opportunities for me in the future, whereas my position now is going no where, boring(for the most part) though it is secure, not even a cola in years in my organization.


Advice, prayers, good vibes and popcorn. ahhh.

Edits;
Still not sure about a few things, salary/hourly(would I be compensated in some way for working late, if ever necessary). A little confused about who would be my immediate supervisor(I don't want to report to multiple people, at the same time). Something else can't remember.

The offer was by email, should I request a formal interview, or just a phone call( for my additional questions? They are civil engineers(in case you are wondering about work culture etc).

I should know everything to do, but man I am nervous. Haven't had a new offer in over 5 years.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 10:44:58 AM by hoping2retire35 »

hoping2retire35

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2018, 11:37:46 AM »
Initial response email sent, basically, 'am I working evenings; compensated?' 'still looking into the health benefits'

Thanks libertystache, I like how you phrased the response offer.

hoping2retire35

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2018, 12:53:17 PM »
I'll have to work some evenings; it is hourly. This is what I expected and hoped. Just wanted to sure of course.

I asked if he could take a phone call at 415 today.

Here we go!

FIRE@50

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2018, 12:59:21 PM »
Never accept the first offer without at least respectfully asking for more money. Just make sure you are prepared to backup your request with valid reasons of why you should be paid more. There is almost always room for them to give you more money. Good luck!

Bicycle_B

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2018, 02:42:51 PM »
Agree that you should ask for the higher of what you want and what you think you can get, unless there is concrete evidence the market will not support what you want. I have never had the guts to ask twice, but when I asked, I always got something. Many employers go in ready with a concession prepared in case you ask; not asking means you left money on the table.

Since you have so many criteria involved, and your position is complex, job hopping for 5% does seem unreasonable. 10% is much more reasonable, but be aware that 15% to 25% in hot job markets (like now) has happened for many people. Consider asking for it if market data to support it can be found. Especially if you didn't tell them your current salary!

use2betrix

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2018, 02:58:53 PM »
Good work so far! If you ask for more, back it up with reasons why. Such as - very close to current salary where you already have some seniority, what value you can add, market rate, etc.

Only you can truly know whether that extra 5% is worth it or not. Everyone has a cut off point. If they canít do it, you could ask for more vacation or the likes.

hoping2retire35

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2018, 07:38:37 PM »
Sorry for the delay; had to get kids down and evening chores, etc.

Made the phone call at  4:15. He was a tougher negotiator than I expected. Even pulled the 'we are doing a market study and will raise salaries in a few months...' I was having none of it. I explained that I thought my experience relative to the job description, and by his own admission during the interview, that I would be a step above the normal pay range, which was greater than their initial offer.

He countered that the offer was well above what they normally can offer and I would make more than many others there, and he had to get approval from his boss. I reminded he what the job description said(amount $$), he seemed surprised and he would have to speak with his boss in the morning. He mentioned others were interested but wanted too much money. He did briefly say they wanted more than X(slightly higher than what is in the job description).

So far I have not offered a number. I alluded to the top hiring range mentioned in the job description during our discussion. I am wondering if I should just keep getting him to make a higher offer; will he insist I provide a number(?); should I make the offer to accept X(the above number)? I know this just him doing his job but he really does not care what I make (barring something crazy of course); perhaps if he seems like he needs a number I could go a tad under X (X-$500 or $1000). He knows I know what the ceiling is(X) beause in a way he was trying to get me to give that number as my starting offer(I am really getting into the negotiation conspiracy theory here). He would be able to make the hire, and I didn't push him to the brink, with his boss.

In any case, I was really nervous when I first called but when he tried to pull the quick one I went into negotiation mode and loved it! Went home and did a big work out in phase two of my cutting plan. I am pumped! Can't wait for tomorrow.

hoping2retire35

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2018, 08:00:42 AM »
Forgot to add, he is calling back sometime today before lunch.

I was going to try to come up with another compliment or something to soften him a bit before we discuss the details but backing off that idea now.

Also a little worried I may be over playing my hand; I don't want to seem difficult. Lots of balancing acts.

Dicey

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2018, 09:23:41 AM »
I know this is second hand, but he sounds a bit shifty. Something to take note of, perhaps.

Another tactic is to negotiate for additional vacation as a way to bridge the salary gap. You do have several vacations to important family events already in the works, right?

hoping2retire35

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2018, 10:21:04 AM »
I know this is second hand, but he sounds a bit shifty. Something to take note of, perhaps.

Another tactic is to negotiate for additional vacation as a way to bridge the salary gap. You do have several vacations to important family events already in the works, right?
It was shifty and tricksy, and I picked up on it immediately. He said, in the interview, he has only worked there a few months and said something to effect that he was going after his bosses job, so he may want to feel like he is doing a good job at this negotiation instead of being more laxidasical. IDK.

Yeah, i thought if they come in with another low offer I was going to bring up vacation and how I have so much built up with my current organization and my accrual rate and that I do not want to loose either.

It is now lunch time and still no call. I believe this is yet another game...

use2betrix

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2018, 10:32:24 AM »
Youíre in a good position. Youíre already working and itís not like itís some massive raise or way better position or this would be a no brainer.

Simply put - figure out your cutoff number and stick to it. If you arenít getting what is worthwhile now then I wouldnít risk switching jobs over it.

Bicycle_B

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2018, 12:02:43 PM »
Use2betrix has a good point.

In business school, I actually took a negotiating class.  The biggest keys are to be prepared by knowing what you want, then research as well as possible what their position ought to be (use market research if you lack inside data), and thereby determine the "bargaining range" - the lowest and highest numbers likely to be acceptable to both sides. Then decide your minimum, but focus on and shoot for the high end of the bargaining range.

Rosy

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2018, 02:39:18 PM »
You have nothing to lose, benefits and final pay need to be in line with what you want. Changing jobs for 5% more pay doesn't really sound tempting.

Good luck!

hoping2retire35

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2018, 10:19:54 AM »
No word from possible employer.

At this point I am thinking this is just unprofessional. I know it has only been three business days (assuming I do not hear back today) but since he was either very poorly informed or just lied; and now having me wait this long.

Maybe around lunchtime tomorrow I'll send an email just saying 'just checking in' 'thank you for trying to get approval for the higher pay' 'were you able to look at the job posting?' I am still debating about the last part for an email.

martyconlonontherun

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2018, 10:42:39 AM »
1. Seems really unprofessional from the start. If they don't follow a normal hiring process and shoot from the hip, it shows red flags.
2. There's a lot of risk switching jobs and you don't want any 2-month stints on your resume
3. You have zero leverage once you start working there, their market research will mostly be for paying new employees, which at that point you won't be.

use2betrix

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2018, 11:07:00 AM »
No word from possible employer.

At this point I am thinking this is just unprofessional. I know it has only been three business days (assuming I do not hear back today) but since he was either very poorly informed or just lied; and now having me wait this long.

Maybe around lunchtime tomorrow I'll send an email just saying 'just checking in' 'thank you for trying to get approval for the higher pay' 'were you able to look at the job posting?' I am still debating about the last part for an email.

It may take a lot of steps, or they may be trying to fill the position at the rate they want to pay.

If anything, just something brief and polite: ďHello, I just wanted to follow up and see if there was any more information, or a decision in regards to bringing me on with the company?Ē

I would forward/reply to the most recent correspondence between the two of you as part of that email.

If you never hear from them again, no loss on your end as it indicates what kind of company they are. If they come back with 5%, thatís your call, but to me it sounds like a no.

RedmondStash

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2018, 11:26:51 AM »
Yeah, seems really unprofessional. Lots of red flags here.

If you want to contact the guy and you're unhappy with the red flags, you could always put a timer on it, like, "If I don't hear from you by end of business day on Friday, I will move forward with other opportunities." That's a pretty aggressive power move, but it shows clearly that you're unhappy with what's going on.

But I think from all you've said, OP, that this isn't the right job for you anyway. This doesn't seem like a good guy to work for.

Good luck.

ysette9

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2018, 01:39:29 PM »
Posting to follow. I love a good drama.

robartsd

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2018, 02:03:56 PM »
You had an offer on Wednesday, asked about more compensation on Thursday, were promised follow up on Friday. With lack of promised follow up on Friday and Monday, I think you should have followed up on Tuesday (long enough to show you're patient, short enough to show you're on the ball).

You think you know there is a ceiling of x - would x be acceptable at this point (not sure how that compares to your desired 10+% increase over current salary). What have you discussed about non-salary benefits? You could come back with a response indicating that you'd be happy to take x if the other benefits are inline with your expectations.

Bicycle_B

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2018, 02:20:14 PM »
It's possible that the organization is decent and the job worth taking even if your contact is fishy. To me though it emphasizes the value of getting a 10% bump vs the risk of getting only 5% and then being unhappy once you have the job.

That said, obviously you have several advantages lined up at once, so I hope you get it; wouldn't think even 5% is bad compared to standing pat. Your call.

Overall, strongly agree that you must follow up and get resolution.  Good luck regardless. These things (almost jobs, almost offers, last minute glitches) happen. Sometimes the job doesn't happen, and sometimes the hiccup is forgotten as you revel in the new job.

AZDude

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2018, 02:51:21 PM »
If this is a large organization, then I can understand the delay. It might require multiple levels of approvals and sometimes those can be difficult to get. If it is a smallish company, then run away. They have no excuse short of a personal emergency, for taking so long.

I've had long delays in getting an offer, even getting the official offer after getting the unofficial phone call from the person doing the hiring, but never this kind of delay during negotiations. It is usually a pretty clear "yes" or "no" with maybe a delay of an hour or two at most.

hoping2retire35

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2018, 02:59:33 PM »
Thanks all.

It is a large/medium organization so the red flags are just him. Pretty sure I will not report to him directly or even work that closely with him. Maybe annual reviews would be handled by him but I think that is it. As I said before, I think, he is new in this position and possibly to this level of management. I would expect some delays but still accompanied by him following up with something along the lines of "we are working on it.." It is a good organization so I'll play nice and not get aggressive just yet.

I'll give him a simple ping in the morning. No specifics, just checking in.

hoping2retire35

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Re: Live drama-job offer is in.
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2018, 06:30:09 AM »
Ping email sent. I mentioned that I appreciated him working to revise the offer.  I wanted to say something so that was clear I believed the ball was in his court at this point, in case he was unsure.

Thinking about it more I feel like everything went as normal as possible, though rather quickly. The phone call was a bit odd, but I did call without getting confirmation from him first(he didn't respond when I asked for a phone call later that afternoon, though in his initial email he said 'call whenever'); so he may have felt rushed or something. I also found out the salary study is real, so he was not making that up, however I still have to get as much as possible when I start, even if my top pay could eventually get higher. For all I know he is on vacation this week. I am just going to sit tight and wait.


A few more thoughts: he may have wanted to hire someone at the lower range and now waiting on the salary study to hire someone more qualified at a higher rate(in the interview he mentioned they had someone else qualified/interested but that they would have to move; me, "oh I can be here in two weeks after I turn in a notice..."). I am sure I am on that short list just not exactly sure where. So I might still get the job but it could be a month or more.