Life in the Pacific Northwest

[sol]

Pretty dry there:

Don't believe it!  Those weather reports are fake news, a conspiracy of lies designed to lure good honest Californians away from their mediterranean paradise.  Just think of all the PNW homeowners who benefit from jacking up real estate prices, they obviously have strong motivation to lie to you.  Some of them work for the national weather service, and are probably part of the deep state.

Stay away, Californians.  People here are unfriendly and the weather is depressing and the traffic is bad and there is snow!  So much snow, it makes the roads dangerous and will dissolve your car and you can't possibly deal with it.  Plus we have Nazis living next door in Idaho.  Our beaches have no sand.  There are homeless people everywhere and no movie stars anywhere.  It's a dystopian hellscape of trees and mountains, a barren wasteland devoid of culture or promise.  You would probably hate it here and just want to move away in six months anyway.  Save yourself the trouble,  move somewhere else.  I hear Colorado is nice.

[RedmondStash]

Pretty dry there:

Don't believe it!  Those weather reports are fake news, a conspiracy of lies designed to lure good honest Californians away from their mediterranean paradise.  Just think of all the PNW homeowners who benefit from jacking up real estate prices, they obviously have strong motivation to lie to you.  Some of them work for the national weather service, and are probably part of the deep state.

Stay away, Californians.  People here are unfriendly and the weather is depressing and the traffic is bad and there is snow!  So much snow, it makes the roads dangerous and will dissolve your car and you can't possibly deal with it.  Plus we have Nazis living next door in Idaho.  Our beaches have no sand.  There are homeless people everywhere and no movie stars anywhere.  It's a dystopian hellscape of trees and mountains, a barren wasteland devoid of culture or promise.  You would probably hate it here and just want to move away in six months anyway.  Save yourself the trouble,  move somewhere else.  I hear Colorado is nice.

lol

This is basically the Seattle Freeze in a nutshell.

[kenmoremmm]

seattle, and the area from olympia to just north of everett had their day. perfect spot. great jump off location for rainier, central cascades, north cascades, olympics. water activities. lush green everywhere. then the californians came. now the amazonians are here. a fully gridlocked interstate for 100 miles at every rush hour (i bike, so IDC). rocketing prices. smog. high stress levels. middle class is being squeezed out. huge property taxes. overcrowded outdoor recreation for the well-known and less well-known areas (doesn't matter if you're a peakbagger, but it does if you have kids and they can't go to places free-of people).

there is essentially an influx of rich tech money coming in, and an exodus of middle class leaving to places like OR, east side of the cascades, bellingham, etc. it's very sad. puget sound was once the country's greatest hidden treasure. now, it is fully exploited and i look forward to the day we move from the region.

[Arbitrage]

Very interesting thread - we're also looking to relocate (at FIRE, most likely), and right now Oregon is the top candidate.  I'm partial to Bend at the moment, though it might not fit what my wife wants (perhaps too cold, and perhaps too few non-recreational opportunities).  Also looking at the Portland area - maybe even across the river in Vancouver or Camas, and could consider other areas such as Eugene.  Strangely, Oregon is one of only 3 states I've never visited, and here I am possibly planning to live there in retirement.  We are going for a vacation this summer, though.  If we continue to consider it strongly, a wintertime visit will also be in order.

Sorry, we are currently Californians.  Born and raised in the midwest, though!

[HPstache]

Sorry, we are currently Californians.

Typical!

[Smevans]

I love the rain too but I couldn't survive the winters in Oregon. It wasn't necessarily the rain that got to me but the constant gray from October through June. The first winter was fine. But by the second winter I could not take it any more and moved east.

Now if I could afford to live in Bend, I would stay there the rest of my life. Central Oregon has the best mountain views, great weather (cold in the winter but at least sunny) and great beer.

[ministashy]

Some more than others. Downtown Bellevue and Downtown Seattle are worlds apart when it comes to the tolerance (and thus boldness) of the homeless community. I went downtown last week, the parking garage smelled like piss, there was human feces on the sidewalk next to the entrance and in 2 blocks I got hit up twice for change. Property crime is high and while it's not ALL homeless people you just don't want to take your eyes off anything you care about for a minute.

Not that there are no homeless people in Bellevue/Redmond but you don't see that kind of stuff downtown much at all. You can freely walk 6 blocks without having to constantly dodge people begging, running scams and I would actually feel somewhat ok locking my bike up and going into a business for an hour without fear it would be gone when I came out.

Of course, that's only because Bellevue/Redmond does everything it possibly can to drive out the homeless, to the detriment of all the other cities around them (including Seattle).  Wouldn't want to have panhandlers on the sidewalks, might offend a few tech millionaires after all ....

[big_slacker]

Some more than others. Downtown Bellevue and Downtown Seattle are worlds apart when it comes to the tolerance (and thus boldness) of the homeless community. I went downtown last week, the parking garage smelled like piss, there was human feces on the sidewalk next to the entrance and in 2 blocks I got hit up twice for change. Property crime is high and while it's not ALL homeless people you just don't want to take your eyes off anything you care about for a minute.

Not that there are no homeless people in Bellevue/Redmond but you don't see that kind of stuff downtown much at all. You can freely walk 6 blocks without having to constantly dodge people begging, running scams and I would actually feel somewhat ok locking my bike up and going into a business for an hour without fear it would be gone when I came out.

Of course, that's only because Bellevue/Redmond does everything it possibly can to drive out the homeless, to the detriment of all the other cities around them (including Seattle).  Wouldn't want to have panhandlers on the sidewalks, might offend a few tech millionaires after all ....

That's painting at least a partially inaccurate picture. Bellevue hosts rotating tent cities, is building at least one and possibly several shelters (although the low barrier men's one near the college isn't the best idea), there are regular 'nice' panhandlers that aren't removed (whole foods guy that plays the sax, dude with the sports scores and radio in between city center and bellevue square) and so on. Yes, if you're aggressively panhandling outside the mall or you try to pitch a tent in a store parking lot the cops are gonna roust you, and they should. That doesn't mean the city lacks compassion or is exporting homeless people to other places.

Spartana, I moved here from NV and never got hated on. Everyone loves to talk tahoe or vegas. :D

[Paul der Krake]

Spartana, you should, like, totally get on the 5 and head North.

[Radagast]

Funny, I always put Bend on my warm, wet, and moderate list. But then my preferred habitat is similar to a northern pocket gopher (ideally the drier and mountainier parts)

[Bracken_Joy]

Funny, I always put Bend on my warm, wet, and moderate list.

Whoah what? No. Bend is none of those things. https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/convince-me-that-bend-or-sucks/

[Radagast]

Funny, I always put Bend on my warm, wet, and moderate list.

Whoah what? No. Bend is none of those things. https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/convince-me-that-bend-or-sucks/

It's relative ;)

Also for some reason I skimmed the Bend thread few days ago and thought this one was that one.

[Roland of Gilead]

Spartana, you should, like, totally get on the 5 and head North.

"the 5"

So Californian

[littlebird]

I grew up in Virginia and moved to Seattle after college, living there for most of my twenties. Before I moved to Seattle I didn't even know I had SAD, but it turns out I do. I guess that means mine is fairly mild since I never noticed it growing up. Anyway, it was very difficult for me and ultimately was a major factor in my leaving the area. I took vitamin D, had a light box, tried everything, but nothing helped. I started to dread the winter (even though I'm a skier and the skiing there was awesome). Towards the end of my tenure I started to feel the dread starting in August. Like, oh no it's August, and that means it's almost September and that means it's almost time for the rain to come again! That's when I knew I had to leave. People laughed when I told them I was moving to New England for the weather, but I much prefer sunny and cold over mild but "low ceiling" and grey. If I had endless money I would live in the PNW for two months in the summer and two months in the winter (for skiing) and somewhere else the rest of the time. If you don't ski or snowshoe there's basically 9 months trapped inside a year. Hiking in the rain... is not fun.

PNW (July 4 to Labor Day) summers can't be beat . So much amazing hiking and camping, endless sunny days. But the spring, fall and winter are the worst. If you already know you have SAD it's smart to factor that heavily into your decision. I actually met people in Seattle that have a kind of reverse SAD, where they get anxious in the summer. I guess it's kind of like a form of natural selection. Most of the friends I made there were transplants and we all moved to the area at the same time. Many of them left within the first two years because of the weather. A few like me lasted for longer before leaving and a few appear to be permanent. There's a lot of turnover.

I've spent way less time on the east side of the Cascades in Washington but I've gotten a taste of every season there. It's much sunnier, much colder and hotter and so much windier. I don't think I could live with the constant wind. Tortuous.

[big_slacker]

Spartana, I moved here from NV and never got hated on. Everyone loves to talk tahoe or vegas. :D

 Hmmm...isn't Tahoe ALSO Cali ;-). I''ll keep my Cali.residency unless I move somewhere perm (I.e. buy rather than rent) so will be just another Californian in WA. Maybe they'll think I'm a tourist.

Tahoe is on the border, other than a 6 months stint I always lived on the NV side. AKA the non-commie side. No income tax, AR-15's for everyone and cheap car registration. :D

Outside of laws though tahoe is kind of it's own place. Tahoe people are really different than bay area or LA Californians, also really different than Reno or Vegas Nevadans.

[dougules]

I grew up in Virginia and moved to Seattle after college, living there for most of my twenties. Before I moved to Seattle I didn't even know I had SAD, but it turns out I do. I guess that means mine is fairly mild since I never noticed it growing up. Anyway, it was very difficult for me and ultimately was a major factor in my leaving the area. I took vitamin D, had a light box, tried everything, but nothing helped. I started to dread the winter (even though I'm a skier and the skiing there was awesome). Towards the end of my tenure I started to feel the dread starting in August. Like, oh no it's August, and that means it's almost September and that means it's almost time for the rain to come again! That's when I knew I had to leave. People laughed when I told them I was moving to New England for the weather, but I much prefer sunny and cold over mild but "low ceiling" and grey. If I had endless money I would live in the PNW for two months in the summer and two months in the winter (for skiing) and somewhere else the rest of the time. If you don't ski or snowshoe there's basically 9 months trapped inside a year. Hiking in the rain... is not fun.

PNW (July 4 to Labor Day) summers can't be beat . So much amazing hiking and camping, endless sunny days. But the spring, fall and winter are the worst. If you already know you have SAD it's smart to factor that heavily into your decision. I actually met people in Seattle that have a kind of reverse SAD, where they get anxious in the summer. I guess it's kind of like a form of natural selection. Most of the friends I made there were transplants and we all moved to the area at the same time. Many of them left within the first two years because of the weather. A few like me lasted for longer before leaving and a few appear to be permanent. There's a lot of turnover.

I've spent way less time on the east side of the Cascades in Washington but I've gotten a taste of every season there. It's much sunnier, much colder and hotter and so much windier. I don't think I could live with the constant wind. Tortuous.

Is it that windy even if you get away from the Gorge?

[littlebird]

Went to Ellensburg a few times a year for several years and it was always windy. Also spent some time in the middle of nowhere out by Palouse Falls and it was very windy there, too. I had to buy special stakes for my tent so I wouldn't blow away. Could be I just got unlucky but I probably camped in Eastern WA 20ish times in the spring, summer and fall and it was windy every time. Only went once in the winter and, again, windy.

[sol]

Is it that windy even if you get away from the Gorge?

Yes.  Speaking as a Spokane native, I can with some authority assure all Californians that eastern Washington is also hellish.  You definitely don't want to live there either.  The winters may look like Norman Rockwell but they feel like H.R. Giger.  Leavenworth is just a tourist trap with nothing to offer.  The Methow is full of meth.  Walla Walla is a feeble impersonation of Napa in the 90s.  The Hispanic population consistently refuses to open enough restaurants to keep authentic Mexican food affordable.  And everywhere you go, the rednecks will make fun of your Prius. 

Try Florida.  They have their own Disney!

[big_slacker]

Spartana, I moved here from NV and never got hated on. Everyone loves to talk tahoe or vegas. :D

 Hmmm...isn't Tahoe ALSO Cali ;-). I''ll keep my Cali.residency unless I move somewhere perm (I.e. buy rather than rent) so will be just another Californian in WA. Maybe they'll think I'm a tourist.

Tahoe is on the border, other than a 6 months stint I always lived on the NV side. AKA the non-commie side. No income tax, AR-15's for everyone and cheap car registration. :D

Outside of laws though tahoe is kind of it's own place. Tahoe people are really different than bay area or LA Californians, also really different than Reno or Vegas Nevadans.

My Dads side of the family lived in Tahoe for years (North shore) on the Cali side but worked in NV and I've spent a huge amount of time there. Love it but a bit to expensive (and dry) long term/permanently for me though.  Although Tahoe people would probably whine about PNW winter weather just like every other Californian east of the Coast Range ;-).

For the OP: Ashland and Grants Pass both are at a bit higher elevation then the rest of the towns along "the" I-5 corridor so they get colder and can get snow more often but aren't really exceptionally humid except for rain. Not sure how far inland of the coast/Bay you are but SF is probably equally "humid" with daily cold wet fog.

Gotcha, haah! I lived most in Zephyr Cove and Round Hill in south shore. Funny how it works there, I've probably only been to incline and the rest of the north shore towns like 10 times total even though it's only a 30 minutes away.

It is expensive *NOW*. You used to be able to get a condo for under $100k and houses under $300k Bay area people wanting 'vacation homes' have really done a number on the affordable housing up there, enough that many locals live in neighborhoods that are only half occupied. Many more have had to move down to Carson but still work at the lake.

[sol]

many locals live in neighborhoods that are only half occupied.

My family in Leavenworth has this same problem.  Their four nearest neighbors right in town are all now "vacation homes" and sit empty 50 weeks per year.  Rich people like having easy access to the town at the drop of a hat, and real estate prices are climbing so steadily that even an empty house is making you more money as capital appreciation than it is costing you in taxes/interest/upkeep.

Whenever I visit, they like to point out all of the empty properties that are secretly owned by quasi-celebrities.  They've been there 35 years now and have finally made the switch from being damn Californians to being locals.

[robartsd]

Spartana, you should, like, totally get on the 5 and head North.

"the 5"

So Californian

That sounds like Southern Californian. OP is from SF Bay Area, so that might not be the right dialect.

[Glenstache]

many locals live in neighborhoods that are only half occupied.

My family in Leavenworth has this same problem.  Their four nearest neighbors right in town are all now "vacation homes" and sit empty 50 weeks per year.  Rich people like having easy access to the town at the drop of a hat, and real estate prices are climbing so steadily that even an empty house is making you more money as capital appreciation than it is costing you in taxes/interest/upkeep.

Whenever I visit, they like to point out all of the empty properties that are secretly owned by quasi-celebrities.  They've been there 35 years now and have finally made the switch from being damn Californians to being locals.

This effect is amazing to me, and I can see it in my corner of the 98826 zip code too. Two houses down the hill from me have been occupied 1-2 weekends a year for the years that I've been out there, and have recently sold for $1.2 million and $890k. Seems like an expensive way to have a vacation home. Given that 800k would net nearly 50k in annual proceeds if invested (+/-), it is still tough to see vacation property as a good investment relative to renting even if they do appear to stay in the black.

[RetiredAt63]

Spartana, you should, like, totally get on the 5 and head North.

Well I'm like on the 15 headed north but like might take the 70 but can like cross over to the 90 which meets up at the 5. That way I miss traffic thru LA on the 405 ;-).

Not only Californians say "the" before the highway number.  I spent my life saying I was going to take the 40 or the 20 or the 401 or the 417. 

So re the grey, you are saying it is always November?

[Paul der Krake]

Spartana, you should, like, totally get on the 5 and head North.

Well I'm like on the 15 headed north but like might take the 70 but can like cross over to the 90 which meets up at the 5. That way I miss traffic thru LA on the 405 ;-).

Not only Californians say "the" before the highway number.  I spent my life saying I was going to take the 40 or the 20 or the 401 or the 417. 

Confirmed: California Collusion with Socialist Canada.

[CSuzette]

I have pretty much decided that I am not going back to PNW to FIRE. I would go back and stay a couple of months a year to go hiking etc. I also find Portland boring. But I moved away from the Seattle area in 2001. Maybe it has changed?  I used to make friends at work church and The Mountaineers. But the people can be difficult. Passive aggressive and will stab you in the back. Not like on the East Coast where they will just stab you in the front :).

The weather can be gloomy. Usually rained each morning and might clear up in the afternoon.  But August through October is fantastic hiking weather.  And if it is raining on the west side you can drive east over the pass to get to sunnier weather.

I did not think it was very diversified. I lived in Kirkland. I worked in Redmond and then downtown Seattle. Not a good idea to be on the street on the weekends after about 5 pm near Westlake and the market.

[CSuzette]

Based upon recent searches on various real estate sites I would not want to be looking for a place to buy right now. Target between Bellevue and issaquah. The place I sold for 320K in 2001 is now worth at least 500K.

[Greenback Reproduction Specialist]

Seattle: Gloomy weather, lots of people (diverse), as a result of a large diverse population there is a lot of pollution. This is the same in any large metro area.
East Washington: Great weather, fewer people(not diverse), not polluted.
Washington coast: Gloomy weather, fewer people(not diverse), not polluted.

I think you will find that just because a small town is not diversified, does not mean people wont be accepting. You may feel that at first, but it wont be because of your situation necessarily, it will mostly be because you are new to town. Having moved around a lot, I have found this to be the case everywhere. It takes time to make friends and build relationship, if you are good people and make the effort to make friends you will find good people anywhere you choose to live.

[honeybbq]

I live in Seattle proper. Can't wait to buy something smaller in the burbs or elsewhere in Western Washington. Maybe Bellingham region.

Not a fan of Eastern Washington, though, at least to live. Nice to visit. Nice to get some sun. Not a place to really live.

[jacquespluto]

I'm from southern Oregon and currently live near Portland.  If you are going off climate, IMO you can't beat Southern Oregon.  I grew up in Grants Pass - the town's motto displayed on the main street reads "It's The Climate".  You really get 4 distinct seasons and you don't have the lingering rain that continues through April and May like you do up north.  With the exception of winter, it's typically 5-10 degrees warmer than Portland and the sun is out a lot more.  Although if you are just going for sun, look no further than Bend as it's much drier in central Oregon.

Grants Pass has certainly grown up a lot since I've lived there and they are starting to get better food options.  Medford is the shopping hub of Southern Oregon, but my suggestions would be Ashland as a medium sized town or Jacksonville or Talent if you want a small town that is close to Medford.  Jacksonville is home to the Britt festival which gets some great concerts every summer.  Talent is very small, but it's right between Ashland and Medford and does have some fun restaurants and shops.

Portland has the good and the bad all which have been mentioned in this thread.  Personally, I'm not sure we would still live here if it wasn't for my job.  The rain and the clouds do drive me crazy along with the traffic  We've considered Bend, Redmond, Ashland and even Folsom, CA as possibilities for future living.  I think eventually we will want to be in a smaller town to avoid some of the growing pains that Portland is going through. 

[Roland of Gilead]

We picked up our new to us sailboat on lake union and went through the locks (large lock because small one was out of service).

Because Ballard bridge was broken, it took us a lot longer to get out into the Sound, so we had to spend the night at Shilshole Marina.

(there is a point to this story)

The Cuban food near the marina is amazing!   Two Cuban restaurants right across from each other with incredibly tasty sandwiches and morro.   Never would have found that out!

[Urchina]

February a lot of times is when we get the "fake out", a week of GREAT weather, when everyone plants stuff and then it dies when it freezes again =P

I'd say, visit in November or January. Those are my least favorite ones. Cold AND dark. Get a taste of the gloom =)

We always called that one great week in February the Spring Tease.

I agree with the comments about getting out in the winter. I always liked (and still do) pulling on my parka and rainboots and going for a wander in the rain. I find the dark more challenging than the rain, which is always magical to me.

@jane x , Brookings and Gold Beach don't have the same wet weather patterns as the northern California area just south of them -- they're significantly warmer and have less gray/clearer skies. They are fairly small towns with limited economic opportunity, they're not very easy to get to (nearest airport of any size is Medford, over a mountain range) and health care may be limited (closest large hospital is probably Coos Bay). Having said that, I think that part of the Oregon Coast is just gorgeous.

[big_slacker]

Based upon recent searches on various real estate sites I would not want to be looking for a place to buy right now. Target between Bellevue and issaquah. The place I sold for 320K in 2001 is now worth at least 500K.

Is it a condo? No house in bellevue/issy is going that cheap.

[Roland of Gilead]

Don't look now but Monday forecast for Seattle is 70 degrees and sunshine.

In March!

[sol]

Don't look now but Monday forecast for Seattle is 70 degrees and sunshine.

It's too early.  I'll be at Muir on Sunday, desperately trying to find a little more winter before it's too late.

All Mustachians are invited, btw.  2pm at NPS table. 

[big_slacker]

Don't look now but Monday forecast for Seattle is 70 degrees and sunshine.

It's too early.  I'll be at Muir on Sunday, desperately trying to find a little more winter before it's too late.

All Mustachians are invited, btw.  2pm at NPS table.

I was gonna go to Alpental today but with this damn sun you know half Seattle is gonna be up there and the chair 2 line like a 30 minute wait. :(

Did this instead, f* winter anyway.

[sol]

Don't look now but Monday forecast for Seattle is 70 degrees and sunshine.

It's too early.  I'll be at Muir on Sunday, desperately trying to find a little more winter before it's too late.

All Mustachians are invited, btw.  2pm at NPS table.

None of you showed up, and I'm a sad panda.

But since it was gorgeous and you all missed it, here's a photo a buddy of mine took while we were on our way up.  Looking south from Rainier, Adams is on the left and St. Helens on the right.

[koshtra]

Oh, he posted the pic upside down. That's a black hill on a lake under a sky of white clouds.

[Roland of Gilead]

We sailed the sailboat we just purchased from Port of Everett to Blaine, WA today.

Sunny, 64 degrees.   Played ferry frogger with a background of Baker

[Bracken_Joy]

On the flip side- I woke up this morning to it raining hard enough my outdoor tomato pots have standing water in them, in spite of a ton of drainage holes. But yes, the last 2 days were gorgeous!

[sol]

We sailed the sailboat we just purchased from Port of Everett to Blaine, WA today.

What kind of boat did you get?  Where are you going to moor it?

I love sailing, but I cant justify the cost of moorage while I still have a 9-5.  I think I would need to sail at least once a week to feel like I was getting appropriate value out of it, and I just can't see that happening with my current kid-centric lifestyle.  Some of my friends have boats that go unused for a months at a time, even in the summer, and it just kills me to see them complaining about things like the cost of college, when they're throwing away $7-10k/year on a boat.

I do have a WW-Potter 15 that lives in my garage, that I paid $900 for and only get to sail two or three times per year.  I still love it.  It has standard sloop rigging in a miniaturized size, a dingy-shaped hull so it doesn't lean enough enough to freak out my partner in anything under 12 knots, and a retractable keel.  It's not big enough for all five members of my family, but they never all want to go sailing with me at the same time anyway.  Puget Sound is a sailing mecca.  I can't wait to retire.

[HPstache]

We sailed the sailboat we just purchased from Port of Everett to Blaine, WA today.

Sunny, 64 degrees.   Played ferry frogger with a background of Baker

You were within miles of me!

[vern]

Sorry I missed it Sol, but Sunday is a chess day at the coffeehouse.

I like to go up to White Pass on Mondays because the XC skiing is free.

[keyvaluepair]

It depends (I've been in the Redmond area for 18 years)
(1) Do you have kids who need to go to school? The immigrant influx is certainly driving up test scores - lots more Tiger Moms/Dads. Lake Washington school districts are very good too and are now meeting or exceeding Bellevue in terms of test scores. Therefore, Sammamish, Redmond are worthy of consideration.
(2) How do you like to recreate? Hiking, climbing and snowshoeing are great here. I'm an immigrant from East Asia and have had no issues with SAD at all - by maintaining a daily cycling schedule combined with weekend hikes. We do a lot of backpacking in summer - my son started when he was 3.
(3) The Seattle Freeze is certainly present. Having a sport/activity that you love doing is a good way to break into groups.

[Roland of Gilead]

What kind of boat did you get?  Where are you going to moor it?

A pacific seacraft 34 (creelock design).  Very respected blue water sailboat, probably a lot tougher boat than we are sailors.

We are mooring it in Blaine, WA mostly because everything else was expensive or full.  Blaine is turning out to be really nice though and we can see Vancouver, B.C. from the dock.   

We also have a Montgomery 17 which is similar to your W.W. Potter.   Fun boat but a little small for more than one week trips or more than 2 or 3 people.  We are keeping it though since it is on a trailer and has zero carry cost other than the value.

[Freckles]

I moved to the Portland area from California 12 years ago. No one has been mean to me about California, I haven't had trouble making friends, the gray doesn't bother me. I love the weather, it doesn't rain all that much, there's plenty of sunshine *for me.* Apparently not for many others, but I don't really know what they are talking about. The weather here is terrific, in my opinion. A little hotter than I'd like in the summer, but mostly manageable. There's pretty much no rain in the summer. Just day after day of long, sunny days. Western Oregon is so beautiful, I don't really know why anyone would live anywhere else. I'm never leaving.

Summer is gorgeous, fall is gorgeous, spring is gorgeous. Winter is not as nice as the other three, but it's fine. It ends. I've never suffered from SAD so take that into account. Maybe I'd feel differently about our weather if I did. As it is, I really don't know what people are complaining about. If all my neighbors love the sun so much, why don't they go live in Arizona? (I personally ran away from Arizona because it's too fucking hot and the goddamn sun tries to fry your skin the minute you walk out the door. 18 years was 18 too many for me, but you don't get to choose where you're born.)

Portland is a pretty charming city, and a nice size for a city. I spent a lot of years in Los Angeles, so Portland seems kind of small to me but in a good way. I just spent a few days in Seattle and it is lovely, but it struck me how much of a bigger city it is than Portland. Our weather is pretty much the same, but Seattle has a different feeling for sure. And it's a hell of a lot more expensive. (Not that Portland is cheap, but compared to Seattle and L.A., and you're coming from the Bay area? Definitely cheap, in comparison to that.)

I'm white as can be and I haven't tried living a small town in Oregon, so I can't really speak to those things. But based on what you said, I'd bet you'd like Bend. People are always leaving here for a week in Bend so they can get some sun. They do get snow in the winter, though. Sunny snow. :)

[bebegirl]

Oh boy. Do not do this to yourself.

I will definitely leave Seattle for retirement and pack my bags to go to Spain. No kidding.

To retire in PNW is a very bad idea.

3 months of summer and the rest is rain. Lack of Vitamin D, traffic, homelessness, high prices.

Yes, beautiful nature. Yes, nice hiking in summer and skies in winter. But 9 months of rain is not worth it.

[wildbeast]

It's funny to read the two opposing views of the same experience!  :)

I guess the only thing to do is spend a couple of years there and see how it works for us.  The SAD is probably the most problematic factor.  But there's no way of knowing how that will play out unless I'm there.  Living somewhere new for a couple of years would be fun.  I like discovering new places. 

@bebegirl - Spain sounds pretty great too!  Have you seen the movie Vicky Cristina Barcelona? 

@Freckles - thanks for the informative post.  I'm looking forward to visiting the different cities in the coming years.  I've been wanting to visit Portland for a while now - I hear you guys have a wonderful city garden!  And I love walkable cities.  I can imagine that Portland is such a breath of fresh air (literally and figuratively) after Arizona.  That's how I felt when I visited Oregon years ago.  The air was so fresh and clean!  Even though California is not as hot and dry as Arizona, it's still an arid region and the prolonged droughts have taken a toll.  Last year we got some good rain, but this year is looking to be a very dry one again.  I have a weird combination of SAD (needs light and sun) and rosacea (can't be in the sun and suffer from heat and dry).  What I need is two homes!  One in Hawaii and one in Oregon.  I think that would do it.  :)

[Telecaster]

Many people say the PNW only has two seasons, summer and rain.  But nothing could be further than the truth!

There is summer, then comes rain.  Then comes Indian summer,  then rain again.   Then comes the first fake spring.  Then rain.   Then the second fake spring, then rain.   Then spring, then rain.  Then fake summer.  Then rain.  Then real summer.  I would get bored with only four seasons! 

[bebegirl]

@bebegirl - Spain sounds pretty great too!  Have you seen the movie Vicky Cristina Barcelona? 

@jane x ,  I remember watching this movie but do not remember finishing it! I need to refresh asap! After visiting Spain (Barcelona, Madrid, San Sebastian, Toledo) I am absolutely speechless. First of all about people who live there. About their attitude to everyone. It does not matter what is your race, accent, sexuality. Everyone feels welcome. Warm people, warm climate, tasty food, dancing on the beach, Spanish guitar and beauty architecture. These is great and not PNW :)

[sparkytheop]

Many people say the PNW only has two seasons, summer and rain.  But nothing could be further than the truth!

There is summer, then comes rain.  Then comes Indian summer,  then rain again.   Then comes the first fake spring.  Then rain.   Then the second fake spring, then rain.   Then spring, then rain.  Then fake summer.  Then rain.  Then real summer.  I would get bored with only four seasons!

We also have snow and construction!