Author Topic: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge  (Read 9721 times)

Togoshiman

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Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« on: October 25, 2012, 09:58:00 AM »
I thought I'd share my recent story since stumbling across the MMM blog.  I'm a 37-year old lawyer in a major city.  I started later than average and only graduated at age 33.  I did a year in Big Law and then jumped/was lured to an in-house position at a major financial institution.  Part of the luring was a sort of 'start at the middle, rise to the top, VP by 40' tale spun for me.  Part of what brought me to law and some other past choices was a combination of being inquisitive and alive to opportunity, often opportunity that others fail to see.  I thought myself somewhat clever for making the same or more pay for less hours and less pressure than some of my peers.  I also thought that my legal training (which was top shelf) would differentiate me from the sea of MBAs and BA + industry credentials (e.g. CFA) that populate middle and upper management here.  I thought that my ability to analyze, think and communicate me would put me ahead of most folks in the qualitative camp (the quants can run their ship and I have no ability to compete with them in their space).

What does this all have to do with MMM?  Well, to put it simply, I have not been very successful.  Oh, I'm upper-middle class six-figure downtown lawyer sort of successful, which I am fully aware puts me in a fantastic position in life relatively.  (As an aside, however, the enormous debt I incurred and the opportunity cost of law school and time away from work still put me well behind where I'd have been if I never went in the first place, and will for several more years).  What I'm apparently not very successful at is the corporate game.  I fit in prett well (mostly as a chameleon) with the corporate law and management stooges.  But I'm no where near a fast track.  I have learned the hard way that politics and perfect hair matter a lot more than credentials, ability, merit and so on.  I still seem to pass even this test, however.  In my particular company and most in my industry, there is a real demand for tenure, time on post, etc.  It's not unusual for people to take 20 years or more to reach that executive level.  That's actually not a bad thing in itself, because the whole go-getting greed-is-good young buck group probably shouldn't be running the show.

No, this is simple and very personal - I simply believed the story I was sold that my uniqueness would be rewarded by the organization and I would be on my way.  I didn't really think on the legitimacy of this line of thinking; I merely thought I was making the rational choice based on the options in front of me to maximize my outcomes.  Absent a burning passion for one thing, I would simply prefer to get the best return on my inputs.  By going into this role, I ended up wrecking my legal career.  I'm seen by the law firms as a business person.  Unless I come into a large corporate law environment as a senior special partner, i.e. I bring lots of clients, I am probably shut out of that life.  Which is fine, because it's not much of a life.  But I am also shut out of senior management in my company and industry.  I'm seen as a technician and not suitable for real management or leadership positions.  Time and again I have witnessed 'tenured generalists' of modest ability and education advance while those with true ability and talent are kept in their jobs (because they are so good at it).

A while back I threw in the towel and joined my company's legal department.  This is a nice, quiet place where hope and careers go to die.  Folks don't really come out of this department except on a stretcher or with a gold watch.  This left me pretty despondent.  I gave up a lot for law school - wife and I quit our jobs and moved cities, several years in roach central rental apartments, scraping by (a mental concept I have realized post-MMM) and some other family and personal stuff.  In short, I HAD to make this career change worth it through sheer dint of hard work and achievement, so that it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.  To find myself essentially shut out of 'real law', my purported profession, and also shut out of management, I judged myself a professional failure.

I guess this will sound like a ridiculous sob story - high income white collar worker remains unsatisfied - but the myopia, sacrifice and intense focus needed to get here in the first place clouds a wider perspective.  I spent some time trying to get used to this more modest career and get comfortable with relative success - I was clothed and fed, lived well in the first world and had a modestly enjoyable job.  All in all, not bad.  But the thought of doing this for the next 25 years or so left me cold, up nights (literally). 

MMM changed all that.  While that sounds dramatic and I don't tend to heap praise on others, MMM has done something elegant yet compelling that really struck a cord with me, even when others in the same vein (e.g. ERE) didn't. 

More below.  Apologies for the novel.


































Togoshiman

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2012, 10:08:08 AM »
Back for part two.

Reading MMM has lifted a huge weight from me over the last few weeks, to put it mildly.  It has actually radically changed my thinking and worldview.  Instead of feeling sorry for myself, I see now with a certain measure of clarity how incredible I have it.  I have a comfortable perch which lets me get home to my kid for dinner every night, while earning an income high enough for me to easily become FI within ten years.  That is true even if I never receive another raise or promotion, keep living in this very expensive city and even if Mrs. T (Togoshiwoman?) doesn't really get on board (since I make most of the income for our family).

Following some of the FI calculators I've found in this forum and MMM's own chart towards FI, I realized I am already well on my way.  I pay a big mortgage, a big student loan payment and day care.  This has forced me to be modest in other areas of my life - I bought a nice used car cash.  I buy my fancy suits at a consignment shop, which none of my counterparts have any idea of.  I am a master of patiently finding a steal on anything I need or want to buy, so I have all the same stuff that everyone around me has, but for 50% or more less.  In short, I'm relatively Mustachian by nature.

Running some easy numbers, I see that the debt payments will eliminate my debt within a year (since post-MMM I have dramatically raised what I am paying to a close-to-painful level - it's an emergency!)  Once I roll that debt payment into a mortgage payment, my mortgage will be gone in 4 years, the same time my daughter gets to public school.  In short, all that is already about 65% of my income 'saved' or earmarked.  Upping that to 70 or 75% will not be that difficult, and Mrs. T and the kid probably won't even notice much because our standard of living is sort of set with what we have now.  From that point, it's a quick 5-7 years to FI.

I guess this is old had to the MMM readers, but it was a revelation to me.




Togoshiman

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2012, 10:13:54 AM »
Last part (lawyers are paid by the word, doncha know...)

Here's the big lesson for me in all of this.  Defining success as getting to the top (of the class, of your profession, of your company, etc.) is a soul killer.  Because it's a consumerist way of looking at life - you always need more and once you get it, you're quickly dissatisfied.  Instead, I now feel free to do the work that interests me most and to simply be myself at the office.  All because getting ahead is suddenly way down my list of priorities.  I know I am a smart guy who can do a lot here, but that's not my goal anymore.  By getting on the road to FI, the company, industry and profession don't own me anymore.  Once I am FI, I can stay here, move on, sleep till noon, do paid work of which I am merely average, etc.  And while previously I felt on a plateau, every day and month I can now see progress towards this new goal, which means that weight gets lighter every day rather than heavier.  I'm sleeping better than I have in years.  I've even lost weight (and no, I'm not biking to work yet).  And everyone says I'm happier.

I share this simply to give the perspective of a white collar professional who found themselves miserable, because I know there are a lot of you out there.

Anyway, for any brave soul who actually read all this, thanks for listening.  And thanks MMM for your work on all this.  Never thought a blog would change my life.

T.







tooqk4u22

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2012, 10:55:42 AM »
Good to hear about your mindset transformation and recognizing that things could be far far far worse.  Better to take the positive outlook....not always easy for me either.

Also, keep in mind that if you stayed in big law you would have worked 80+ hours a week, still dealt with the politics, and still had no guaranty of making partner or crazy high income. 

At one point in my life I was on a somewhat fastrack then my manager left the company and my new manager and I didn't mesh, it pretty much moved me from fastrack to no-track.  I have since moved on.   Incidentally, when my former manager left he asked me to go with him - while I liked him I didn't care for the new company - turns out I made the right choice as three years later the firm struggled and he was downsized as were some on his team. 

Point is just because the current track didn't work out, it doesn't mean the one you left would have.  No point in looking backwards, better to look forward.

Use it up, wear it out...

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2012, 11:01:30 AM »
Great mental turnaround, Togoshiman!

Another bit of whipped-cream on the FI sundae - once you're financially independent, you can afford to take risks! Even if you don't want to stop working, you could get involved in something exciting with the law that may or may not pan out, opportunities to make use of your talents that you'd have to politely decline today due to financial obligations. Possibly a much more interesting career path.

10moreyears

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2012, 11:37:27 AM »
Thanks for sharing your story Togoshiman!
It is hearing stories like this that keep me inspired on my path to FI.

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2012, 12:15:17 PM »
Just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate you taking the time to write this out. My experience is that there is a mental snowball effect. At first you're like, "Hey, actually maybe I DO have a goal, here" and then there's the realization "...Wait, I get to be around for my child, TOO?" and then finally, "What the fuck was I thinking before? Was I in the matrix or something? Why was that life I thought I wanted the "good life" again? I can't remember..."

Congratulations. I think when a person stops buying the definition of success that everyone else is trying to sell, they start to get in touch with their own values regarding spending, life and pretty much everything else. Your story is very inspirational, I look forward to updates.

totoro

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2012, 12:24:54 PM »
Happy to read your post and see how viewing things differently has helped increase happiness and satisfaction.  Working in a big law firm or as a manager or whatever is overrated unless you are really truly passionate about it.   I like your new set of attainable goals - you do have a lot going for you :)

Devils Advocate

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2012, 12:30:31 PM »
Well stated sir!

Congratulations on your new found peace.  Life and it's tribulations are merely mental games and hacks anyway. It's always how you can frame it that matters.

Best wishes,

DA

caligulala

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2012, 12:56:40 PM »
I totally relate. Luckily I realized that I was not cut out for corporate life at my first internship. I couldn't "strive" like the other interns because I didn't care about the atta girls from the managers. I'm much better suited to entrepreneurship since my motivators are internal.

Get in there, do your job to your satisfaction and get out! Once you stop looking for satisfaction from your job you'll find so many other things to be fulfilling in your life.

JJ

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2012, 05:49:50 PM »
Great story!

You may find something interesting happen as you get closer to FI.  The FU money you have built up allows you to speak your mind at work about topics which aren't necessarily part of your job description without fear of consequences.  You never know - this may be the short cut path to senior management anyway if you are still interested in that.  In around 2009 I crossed the threshold into FI.  I am still working and I did find the "fire me, see if I care" mindset changed my relationship completely with the execs (for the better, just to be clear).  There are a few articles/forum posts on the whole SWAMI effect - it really works.

And by the way, for the record, the best advice I have had from legal advisors over the years hasn't been in contracts they write or the liability they push onto someone else, but in the clarity of thinking they force when engaging in business relationships with other parties.  This is generally massively underrated in my opinion.

Togoshiman

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2012, 12:33:27 PM »
Thanks to everyone for the inspiration and kind words.  There have been some unexpected follow-on effects already.  As has been mentioned, the effect of not caring as much what senior folks think of you in the organization actually frees you to speak your mind and do what you think needs to be done.  Which actually makes you more effective generally.  While I'm a distance away from having an FU fund, just the change in attitude that I already have everything I need in my toolkit to reach FI in an acceptable timeframe, and therefore don't actually need to advance further, has been enough to start setting me free a bit.  Since I care much less about impressing certain folks or even being particularly careful about being the 'right' sort of person, I can just be myself and do good work.  That may actually serve to advance my career more quickly, or it may simply let me tread water while still being happier.  Either way, I'm better off than I was previously.

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2012, 11:55:59 PM »
Congratulations, Togoshiman!  I can very much relate to your experience.  MMM really opened my eyes to what is possible, and just envisioning the increased freedom even semi-FI will bring has made me happier with my job and excited to increase my 'stache. 

I can now see the means-to-an-end that my job is (and the end is sooner than the couple of decades I originally envisioned), and having money in the bank makes it easier for me to ask for what I need at the office and let the bad stuff roll off my back.  It is so much better now that I know I'm choosing to be at this job for a limited time only, I am not trapped.  Knowing I have the freedom to leave and do something else if I want, because I'm not a slave to a high-cost lifestyle, is a wonderful perspective to have and makes me a more positive person at work (I don't disclose why I seem happier nowadays.)

I feel like I have gotten a little bit of my life (and hope/sanity) back, and am looking forward to getting even more back in the future.  Thanks for sharing your story; it was inspiring to read.  You're among like-minded friends here.

Fite4Rite2Party

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2013, 06:41:33 PM »
I know I'm late to the party here, but I just wanted to say that this is an awesome post.

As a mid-level corporate associate in a large law firm, I very much feel where you're coming from. The one thing you said that resonates the most: "By getting on the road to FI, the company, industry and profession don't own me anymore." I absolutely believe this. Once you join the FI warpath, you realize that the rat race bullshit is just a temporary phase that you use to your advantage while your peers dig themselves deeper.

Also, I don't think it's fair to say that you've wrecked your legal career. The top firms in the industry, whether law or finance, brainwash us into thinking that there is only one path up the ladder. They are wrong. The real world is huge, chaotic, and doesn't play by any one set of rules. There are tons of possibilities and opportunities out there for a smart lawyer.


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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2013, 10:01:43 AM »
Re: "By getting on the road to FI, the company, industry and profession don't own me anymore."

This hit close to home for me too.  I've also found that thinking about FI helps me resist spending pressure from my peers.  I'm also a mid-level at a big firm, and I often hear crap like "you can afford it" or "why don't use just buy X."  These comments used to really bother me.  I guess I felt greedy or something by trying to save my money.

hybrid

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2013, 10:25:56 AM »
Great post.  I'm the IT guy at a mid-sized firm, and I have to say I really like it here.  Nice folks, great perks.  It's an interesting view of the lawyer lifestyle from where I sit - surrounded by it and not actually part of it.  I've been watching perfectly decent folks just like you who make significantly more than me sacrifice significantly more of their lives than I do chasing a more comfortable lifestyle and I've always thought "Well, better you than me....".   I'm sure they think the same.  MMM has helped me focus on better things.  Glad to see it's helping you too.

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2013, 11:43:38 AM »
The top firms in the industry, whether law or finance, brainwash us into thinking that there is only one path up the ladder. They are wrong. The real world is huge, chaotic, and doesn't play by any one set of rules. There are tons of possibilities and opportunities out there for a smart lawyer.

This is brilliant, and I am not in either law or finance. I still find it to be true in my life with some of the amazing situations that I have found myself in, that are beyond what 'most people,' would have thought possible for someone of my age and education level. Thanks for putting it so concisely.

aclarridge

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2013, 11:57:35 AM »
This post strongly resonates with me as well. The feeling of being trapped in my career until I'm old...it really bothered me, but because everybody else was doing it I figured I might as well get on with it. I felt resigned to my fate for a while and was bummed out but tolerating it. Reading MMM for the first time was such an eye-opener - "life can be like that??" -  and made a huge difference to my whole outlook.

So anyway, thanks for the nice reminder of those feelings. Congrats and best of luck godspeed with your goal to reach FI.

TrulyStashin

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2013, 01:59:14 PM »
This might turn into a really long post too, we'll see, but this thread and my near-obsessive reading of MMM since discovering it a month ago has created a similar epiphany in my perspective.

I'm in my mid-40s now.  After 12 years teaching HS I went to law school in 2008 (class of 2011).  Like the OP, I had completely bought into our cultural definition of success as high-status, high-income, high-consumption and high-insanity.  My sibling is COO of a financial services company and he was my mental template for "successful."   In 2007 - 08, my motivations in going to law school were multifold (in no particular order):

1) I'd been chronically single for about 5 years and truly didn't expect to meet anyone I'd want to spend more than an hour with, let alone a month or a year or a lifetime.  I might as well have an all-consuming job.
2) I was bored with teaching and had accomplished every credential possible.  No where to go except administration (no way!).  Teachers get very little respect and law school was a way to earn the respect that I thought mattered.
3) My kids were teens and I could see an empty nest ahead, with me in a stifling job with a rigid salary cap and surrounded by some seriously juvenile people (my fellow teachers, many of them as immature as our students).
4) It was something I'd aspired to when I was in undergrad in the mid-80's but an early marriage and children put the kibosh on it at the time. 

So, during law school, I burned every possible end of every candle at my disposal (mind you, I was a single mom of two at the time).  Law Review; Moot Court; Research Assistant/ Fellow; high grades.  The works.  I'll never forget the baseball tournament my son had in the autumn of my 2d year.  We were living on a shoe string so we camped instead of staying in a hotel.   I used the propane lantern light to edit an article for the law review.  Good Grief!

During 3L year and for the first year post-grad, I worked full time for a consulting firm and thought I'd hit the big time -- flying all over the world to various meetings where people like Richard Branson had high-level conversations with the CEO of Coca Cola.  Woo hoo, I was in the big time!   

Now I'm in BigLaw and holy cow but I do not fit in.

I've been here just over a year and like the OP, it is clear to me that I'm an odd duck in this environment.  After spending the last 5 years drinking at the trough of Too Much, this blog has helped me see what I already knew on some level.  All the Stuff is just ridiculous.    I want a life.  I want weekends and unencumbered evenings.  I want to dig in my garden beds and eat the first ripe tomato right off the vine.  I want small and meaningful.

So, I'm job hunting to find a better spot where my law degree is useful but it doesn't own me.  I don't regret my choices over the past 5 years because teaching really was a dead end, income-wise and I have versatility now that I could never have gained without my JD.  Even at the public sector jobs I'm now pursuing, I'll make 130% of my teaching salary.  It's just that I no longer see my career as the centerpiece of my life, it is simply a means to an end.   I echo OP's comment about how every day I see progress toward debt-free and FI and in coming months it will snowball for me as I implement "constant optimization."    I simply don't care about and don't even want the Stuff that I wanted as recently as last month.   

About a month ago, the scales fell from my eyes.  Remarkable.






totoro

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2013, 02:19:13 PM »
Nice post TrulyStashin.  I know with your work ethic and skill set you just need to find out what makes you really happy and you will make it happen.

RobinAZ

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2013, 09:40:52 PM »
I started to reply to this post yesterday but just couldn't find the words, I was so moved.  I love practicing law.  For about 18 months I had my own firm, I helped struggling businesses and individuals.  I didn't make as much, but I was happy.  Medical issues came up, and I am uninsurable in AZ, so I took a firm job.  I left AZBigLaw to open my solo firm, and to go back is so painful.  I am very unhappy, although the work is interesting... when we have it.  The firm I went to work for spun off from an older established group to a boutique practice.  We are overstaffed and underfunded and the stress is enormous.  I have NO CONTROL at all.  My hours have plummeted.  I approached my boss last month about transitioning to an Of Counsel relationship, with reduced hours, to save on overhead and to give me a chance to explore other opportunities.  I had proposed a minimum number of hours guaranteed, equal to 2/3 or 3/4 of my current salary, depending on the structure.  We can survive on about 50% if we have to.  He sent THE OFFICE MANAGER to talk to me today.  Basically-- they'll pay all my benefits and overhead, I can use the facilities for my own practice for free, but an hourly rate for doing his work with no minimum hour guaranty.  Still negotiating an effective date.  She proposed July 1 but that is basically like letting me go with no severance, that's $%#@&. 

My husband and I were just starting to get a handle on things.  He quit full time work so I could take this job, and he took care of our son who has some exceptional needs.  Now he is having trouble finding a position in his field and I now have no steady income.  I am really afraid.

But at the same time... as Of Counsel I can hang out my shingle again and take any client that doesn't conflict.  I can do the "lower level" work I loved.  I resigned my adjunct professor position at the college of law because he said he couldn't afford to have me out of the office that much...  I could teach again.  In time, I may make as much as I do now, and when my husband finds work we will be totally ok.  Perspective is a crazy thing.

totoro

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2013, 08:01:09 AM »
If you need a minimum income right now I would be wary about the hourly rate for doing this work given that, if I understand it correctly, there are too many salaried employees now. 

It costs no more to pile more work onto a salaried employee and the owners of the firm get to bill the hours out without paying out extra.  Much more profitable than an of counsel arrangement in that situation.   You may find yourself with little or no work.

As you have identified, the way this could work well is if you can find your own clients.  I would put a lot of thought into that.  You could retain your insurance and have space to work in without cost.  That could work well. 

I would suggest that you wait until your husband is employed to implement this plan if you do not have savings.  Another option would be to save 50% of your current salary for six months to create a buffer for the transition.

If you can live on 50% of your current salary the adjunct professor route might be great.  I'm not sure why you wouldn't do this now if it is available.

This situation is temporary.  You will be okay.  You have skills, you just need a plan that includes a position with medical coverage.  Don't let anxiety get the best of you here.

RobinAZ

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2013, 05:54:42 PM »
That is exactly my concern.  But this wasn't my proposal, I get the strong sense it is Of Counsel or laid off. 

As an adjunct, I only made about $3-6000/semester, based on the teaching load.  Very part time.  But I enjoyed it.

The headhunter who placed me here wants to try to place me at one of the biggest firms we have... Basically, I wouldn't see much of my family for 4 years but we'd be debt free. 

I am hoping to find a middle ground.  Either SOME kind of guaranteed hours here, or maybe a mid-sized firm without the insane billable requirement.  Or we may just try to survive while I re-build a firm.  I do have good connections, and after 6 months or so, should be semi-ok.

More will be revealed  :-)

If you need a minimum income right now I would be wary about the hourly rate for doing this work given that, if I understand it correctly, there are too many salaried employees now. 

It costs no more to pile more work onto a salaried employee and the owners of the firm get to bill the hours out without paying out extra.  Much more profitable than an of counsel arrangement in that situation.   You may find yourself with little or no work.

As you have identified, the way this could work well is if you can find your own clients.  I would put a lot of thought into that.  You could retain your insurance and have space to work in without cost.  That could work well. 

I would suggest that you wait until your husband is employed to implement this plan if you do not have savings.  Another option would be to save 50% of your current salary for six months to create a buffer for the transition.

If you can live on 50% of your current salary the adjunct professor route might be great.  I'm not sure why you wouldn't do this now if it is available.

This situation is temporary.  You will be okay.  You have skills, you just need a plan that includes a position with medical coverage.  Don't let anxiety get the best of you here.

totoro

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2013, 06:17:06 PM »
Sounds like you have a plan.  Hope it gets settled soon.

RobinAZ

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2013, 09:19:12 PM »
Thanks for all of the good advice.  I lived in Japan for 3 years... tempted to chuck it all and go back  :-) 

Sounds like you have a plan.  Hope it gets settled soon.

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2013, 09:35:14 PM »
RobinAZ, I live in Japan. If you chuck it all and move back out here, let's commiserate over some sake.

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2013, 09:56:27 AM »
I'm glad this thread has been revived because  I must not have read it properly or missed it when it came out. As a former highly paid professional, now semiretired, I really appreciated  how Togoshiman explicated the concept about re-defining ones goals and achievement. No longer a high achiever getting to the top, but the job is part of the goal/achievement of FIRE, a means to an end, not the end-game.

I recently heard of an old school mate, who is now in a very very senior government job... and a touch of the green eyed monster emerged. I've been downshifting for 18 years now, but that competitive drive still emerges from time to time. I reminded myself I did not want her life for quids: I've made those choices over and over with every head-hunting. Togoshiman's "pearl" is another precious mind-hack to keep me on course...


little_owl

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2013, 02:00:49 PM »
Wow.  I see this is from October 2012, and I am glad it got bumped back up so I could read.  This parallels my personal evolution in a similarly "white collar / prestigious" career.

I used to think I wanted to be our firm's CEO.  Now, I am working hard and saving like mad while counting down to FI in 10-12 years.

There is so much stuff that comes with this career...BMWs, Porsches, Four Seasons / Ritz Carlton travel...who needs it.  I am happiest doing yoga, reading, drinking wine, traveling modestly....my colleagues in their 7k foot mansions think I am insane, so I keep my mustachian ways to myself.  This blog and forum has been so great for my motivation.

DocCyane

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2013, 08:18:37 AM »
It's a relief to hear other people say their career-ladder climbing got them exactly where they didn't want to go or way too high for happiness. I'm there now and thinking I'd like to get off this ladder.

I have to stick it out a little longer to hit some financial goals, but it's great to shout, "I'm not having fun anymore and I want to get off!"


Undecided

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2013, 01:30:45 PM »
It's a relief to hear other people say their career-ladder climbing got them exactly where they didn't want to go or way too high for happiness. I'm there now and thinking I'd like to get off this ladder.

I have to stick it out a little longer to hit some financial goals, but it's great to shout, "I'm not having fun anymore and I want to get off!"

For the first eight or so years of my practice, there was some I liked, some I disliked and some I hated. Rather than handle it in one of the standard ways, I got really good at the parts I liked, developed expertise in some related areas and then wrote out a proposal for the head of my department to let me focus on what I liked and eliminate a lot of the other stuff. Since nobody else had (or wanted) the combination of expertise/responsibility/"stalled" career path that I was describing, he let me try it out. After it became clear that I added a lot of value in that role, I asked to change some of the other terms of my job, too, and five years on I've ended up working from home, at a reduced billable hours expectation, mostly able to avoid the types of work and situations that I didn't enjoy. I'm not saying that can work for everyone, but the "regular" choices may not be the only choices.

totoro

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Re: Lawyer stepping off the treadmill instead of a window ledge
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2013, 07:12:20 PM »

For the first eight or so years of my practice, there was some I liked, some I disliked and some I hated. Rather than handle it in one of the standard ways, I got really good at the parts I liked, developed expertise in some related areas and then wrote out a proposal for the head of my department to let me focus on what I liked and eliminate a lot of the other stuff. Since nobody else had (or wanted) the combination of expertise/responsibility/"stalled" career path that I was describing, he let me try it out. After it became clear that I added a lot of value in that role, I asked to change some of the other terms of my job, too, and five years on I've ended up working from home, at a reduced billable hours expectation, mostly able to avoid the types of work and situations that I didn't enjoy. I'm not saying that can work for everyone, but the "regular" choices may not be the only choices.
[/quote]

I did the same thing, but my proposal got turned down by my boss.  I slept on it and walked in and quit the next day. I had had this as a backup plan and just needed the night to feel the fear and do it anyway.  My firm offered me a raise to stay.  I turned it down and two clients (that I had obtained) left with me by their own choice and I started up on my own.  It was enough to start with. 

Now I only practice the way I want and refuse clients I don't want to work with.  I need to bill 25 hours a month to make all my expenses and save a bit, but could survive on less.  I typically bill 15-20 hours a week though.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!