Author Topic: Landlord not clearing snow (what are my options)  (Read 25048 times)

Mr Dumpster Stache

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Re: Landlord not clearing snow (what are my options)
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2016, 04:53:03 PM »
At my last apartment I got a discount on the rent every time I mowed the lawn or shoveled the sidewalk (for the entire building - 8 units). It was pretty awesome and mustachian, even though I was still a spendypants at the time.

sstants

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Re: Landlord not clearing snow (what are my options)
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2016, 08:18:24 PM »
Hey, OP...I'm totally with you on this one. When you pay rent, you expect the landlord to deliver everything that the lease outlines just as you pay rent in full each month.

I'm glad you got it sorted out and things didn't get nasty with the landlord. So often renters feel trapped with no recourse, and often a small issue like this can snowball (lol) into bigger issues between landlord/tenant.

Guses

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Re: Landlord not clearing snow (what are my options)
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2016, 09:11:13 AM »
I cannot comment on the specific situation of the original poster ("OP"), but I will inject some facts into this discussion by posting some general information about Ontario law. I emphasise, however, that this general information may not be applicable to the specific situation of the OP. If the OP needs advice applicable to his or her specific situation, he or she should seek legal advice from a lawyer licensed to practice in Ontario (formally known as a member of the Law Society of Upper Canada).

In Ontario, commercial and residential tenancies are governed by very different laws. I will not discuss commercial tenancies in this post. Residential tenancies are primarily governed by the Residential Tenancies Act, 2006, SO 2006, c 17 ("Act"). Under the Act, "[t]he prescribed maintenance standards apply to a residential complex and the rental units located in it if ... the prescribed circumstances apply". Act § 224(1). For the purpose of this provision, the term "residential complex" includes "a building or related group of buildings in which one or more rental units are located" which seemingly includes a single-family home. Act § 2(1). The Lieutenant Governor in Council is authorised to make regulations for the purpose of Act § 224(1) (specifying the maintenance standards and the prescribed circumstances in which they apply). Act § 241(1)(2). The regulations promulated by the The Lieutenant Governor in Council provide that "[e]xcept as otherwise provided, the landlord shall ensure that the maintenance standards in this Regulation are complied with". Maintenance Standards, O Reg 517/06 ("Reg"), § 2(2). One such exception is that the maintenance standards contained in the regulation do not apply "[i]f there is a municipal property standards by-law applicable only to the exterior of residential complexes or rental units"; in that case, said municipal standards apply instead to the exterior of the complex. Reg § 4.

One of the standards contained in the regulation is that "[e]xterior common areas shall be maintained in a condition suitable for their intended use and free of hazards and, for these purposes, the following shall be removed: ... [u]nsafe accumulations of ice and snow". Reg § 26(1)(5). As I interpret this regulatory provision, the key test appears to be whether the common areas are "in a condition suitable for their intended use". In Montgomery v. Van, 2009 ONCA 808, the Ontario Court of Appeal considered an older residential tenancy statute, which no longer exists, but which has generally similar language to the provisions discussed above. The Court found that a tenant can agree to assume responsibility for the maintenance of common areas, but that agreement must be a "severable contractual obligation" from the lease, supported by independent consideration (although it does not need to be a separate document). In the absence of such a separate agreement, the landlord is responsible under current Act § 224.

I stress, however, that the standards contained in the regulation apply only in the absence of qualifying municipal standards (as described more precisely above). If qualifying municipal standards exist, they need to be consulted instead. The OP does not disclose which municipality he or she is in (if any).

If the landlord is in violation of the established maintenance standards (whether municipal or the ones in the regulation), the tenant has up to two separate remedies under the Act:
  • The tenant can apply to the Ontario Landlord and Tenant Board for, among other things, an "abatement of rent". Act §§ 29(1)(1), 30(1)(2); or
  • If there are no qualifying municipal standards and the standards in the regulation apply, the tenant also has the option of making a "written complaint" to the Minister under Act § 224(2). If municipal standards apply instead, the analogous option would be to make a complaint to the muncipal authorities.

Notably, the Act does not explicitly authorise tenants to withhold rent as a consequence of the landlord's failure to comply with maintenance standards. Many recent Board opinions state that this is not allowed. See, e.g., TSL-59846-15 (Re), 2015 CanLII 59172 (ON LTB) at ¶ 11 ("The Tenants chose to withhold rent due to alleged maintenance problems. However it should be noted that it is contrary to the Act to withhold rent. If a Tenant wishes to seek a remedy for a Landlord’s failure to maintain a rental unit they are free to file a Tenant Application regarding maintenance."). In one case, the Divisional Court declined to hear an appeal from a tenant regarding maintenance issues until such time as the tenant paid the rent owing in full. Glimjem Holdings Ltd. v. Weidenfeld, 2003 CanLII 26196 (ON SCDC).

The website of the Ontario Landlord and Tenant Board appears to contain a lot of general information about the process for making an application. It also appears to contain practical tips on how to resolve situations without an application. This website may be a good place to learn more about these matters. Again, I cannot offer any advice on the specific situation of the original poster. If such advice is required, it should be obtained from a member of the Law Society of Upper Canada.

Can you please give more details upon which you have no intent to comment?


Way back when we used to rent a parking spot, we had the same problem with snow removal in a private lot. As winter progressed, parking spots became smaller and smaller until we could not park there anymore (in our compact car).

This is an issue in places like here and Ontario. At the end of the winter, snow banks are higher than cars and sometime houses. We just had our first 2 feet snowstorm last week. I expect many more during the winter.

Dicey

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Re: Landlord not clearing snow (what are my options)
« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2016, 05:41:13 PM »
In any case the issue has been resolved satisfactorily at least per the discussion

Since you came here for advice, would you care to elaborate on the solution, please?

Why would I? It's clear the topic went over like a lead balloon with a lot of the folks here (yourself included). Admittedly it was posted from my phone and could have used more detail initially. For those other than yourself who were helpful however: after discussion a company was hired and was sent promptly last night.

Wait a minute - You asked for advice on a forum whose founder coined the term complainypants and the concept of facepunches and then you're snarking because you didn't like my input? I just re-read my comments and I'm still scratching my head at what you found so offensive. If you only want comments that reflect your worldview and only want them wrapped in cotton candy, you may just have stumbled into the wrong place.

FIRE47

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Re: Landlord not clearing snow (what are my options)
« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2016, 07:13:31 PM »
In any case the issue has been resolved satisfactorily at least per the discussion

Since you came here for advice, would you care to elaborate on the solution, please?

Why would I? It's clear the topic went over like a lead balloon with a lot of the folks here (yourself included). Admittedly it was posted from my phone and could have used more detail initially. For those other than yourself who were helpful however: after discussion a company was hired and was sent promptly last night.

Wait a minute - You asked for advice on a forum whose founder coined the term complainypants and the concept of facepunches and then you're snarking because you didn't like my input? I just re-read my comments and I'm still scratching my head at what you found so offensive. If you only want comments that reflect your worldview and only want them wrapped in cotton candy, you may just have stumbled into the wrong place.

Would anyone care to post a meme of a dead horse being beaten?

accolay

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Re: Landlord not clearing snow (what are my options)
« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2016, 04:13:52 AM »
If it is in the lease that the landlord is to clear the snow then the landlord should do it. I'm not sure why people have a problem with that.

Landlord2015

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Re: Landlord not clearing snow (what are my options)
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2016, 04:48:46 PM »
and prostitutes
Yes young Jedi do you feel the force awakening in you?...  yours JEDI MASTER! The two bad laws in Canada is ban vs prostitution and that landlord is responsible for clearing snow. That does not apply for Finland.

Canada is a great icehockey land and I respect Canada and many good Canada TV series and movies exists. Canada is also a winter country like Finland and we both have plenty of forests and wildlife.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2016, 04:55:21 PM by Landlord2015 »

ender

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Re: Landlord not clearing snow (what are my options)
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2016, 05:35:44 PM »
I can't believe the number of people who are giving you really sarcastic/jerk responses to this. I'm sorry you have to deal with a bunch of... stuff here for posting a completely legitimate question.

Anecdotally, it would have taken me several hours to clear the snow to be able to get to work and out of the parking lot at the last few apartments I've lived at. I guess I technically could have bought a snowblower/tractor, hauled it up some stairs and put it in our living room, which might have dropped it closer to 30 minutes or so?








Landlord2015

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Re: Landlord not clearing snow (what are my options)
« Reply #58 on: January 06, 2016, 02:11:43 AM »
I can't believe the number of people who are giving you really sarcastic/jerk responses to this. I'm sorry you have to deal with a bunch of... stuff here for posting a completely legitimate question.

Anecdotally, it would have taken me several hours to clear the snow to be able to get to work and out of the parking lot at the last few apartments I've lived at. I guess I technically could have bought a snowblower/tractor, hauled it up some stairs and put it in our living room, which might have dropped it closer to 30 minutes or so?
I mean every word I said it was not meant sarcastically. As for the reference to Starwars oh that was added to make it more interesting and since I like very much the newest StarWars movie. The reference was no way far from the mark.

Look clearing snow is not fun I know that. I gave my opinion and if you are not happy with it so be it. Personally I hate cold winter. This week is specially cold in my country.




NoStacheOhio

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Re: Landlord not clearing snow (what are my options)
« Reply #59 on: January 06, 2016, 06:26:29 AM »
Look clearing snow is not fun I know that. I gave my opinion and if you are not happy with it so be it. Personally I hate cold winter. This week is specially cold in my country.

Your opinion doesn't change the landlords contractual obligation. Do you often ignore clauses you don't like in contracts you've willingly entered into? This has nothing to do with OP being lazy or complainypants or anything like that. My last rental, we were responsible for yard maintenance (including snow), and that was fine. It was also spelled out in the lease. If the terms of the contract were reversed, I would've been irritated when I was blocked in with 18" of snow in the morning.

Landlord2015

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Re: Landlord not clearing snow (what are my options)
« Reply #60 on: January 06, 2016, 09:47:32 AM »
You are correct NoStacheOhio that what laws and contracts is in one country matters.

You should get a law change to prostitute ban. That said this snow thing is double edged sword it makes never both sides landlords and renters happy.

In Finland my country as default renter is responsible for the snowclearing. However in Canada landlord is as default responsible for snow clearing unless otherwised stated in the contract.

I have not suggested anything illegal in these forums not as far as I can remember at least. For example I am strongly against drugs and I have never tried any drugs. I do drink booze(alcohol), but not drinking often or much(well rarely much:)) booze and I would not drive a car if I would be affected by alcohol.

In Finland as default the renter has right to get a subrenter. That said all my contracts say that they do not have right to get subrenter without my permission.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 10:13:55 AM by Landlord2015 »