Kids, money, and financially incompetent ex spouse

[FiguringItOut]

I am hoping that you can suggest some language to me before I go and have a ridiculous non PC tirade about my ex with my children.

Been divorced since June of last year.  One (but not the only one) of the main reasons for divorce was his financial incompetence.

He takes kids every other weekend.  He pays me appropriate amount of child support and he reimburses me for half of other child related costs that he is obligated to pay (medical, school trips, etc). 

But, every time he brings them back from the weekend with him, they come back with a new toy, or new tshirt, or new something else.  Two weeks ago he was complaining to me that he's looking for a new job because his finances are 'just not working out' .  Did I mention that he takes them out to eat at least 3 meals during the 2 day weekend?

Last night they all came back and both kids have a new Funko Pop toy.  Don't even get me started on these stupid Pop's that he got them to start collecting.  Each of the kids has few dozen of these insane things now.  But I digress. 

I divorced him to no longer be involved in his finances, so it's not my place to be telling him how to spend his money, as long as he pays child support, etc.  Anyhow, I mention to him that they don't need anymore toys and to please stop buying them.  Or at least to keep them at his place.  And then he tells me that he did not buy these.  Girls bought these new Pops with their allowance money.  I almost blew a gasket when I heard that.  I didn't say anything though.

We have a good divorce-relationship going, we treat each other with respect, we do not talk badly about each other with kids, etc.  But this is just going over the line.  He's influencing their financial decisions and encouraging wasteful spending.  Just like he did with me for all 15 years we were married. 

Then later in the evening, I found out that they were talking about him getting a puppy and if he does, he wants girls each to pay a quarter of the puppy related costs and he'll pay the other half.  Apparently they talked about it and these costs would include actual puppy $200, plus all vet stuff, food, toys (they said they need at least $50 in toys), bed, etc.  I know nothing about puppies as I've never had a pet, but one, I think this is ridiculous that he expects kids to pay for this out of their $35 a month allowance that I give them, and that these costs will skyrocket under his control.  As a side note, do puppies/dogs really need $50 worth of toys?  What happened to a stick at the park and an old baseball? 

I plan to tell him straight out that I think him expecting girls to pay for puppy is insane.  But what about the rest of the stuff?  How do I address this with kids without frat out telling them that they should not be listening to their father about anything that has to do with money?

As for puppy, I will say to them and to him, that I will cut off their allowance if they even thing about contributing to this puppy aside from occasional treats. 

I am absolutely livid about all of this right now. 

[AZDude]

I would say to first calm down. Count your blessings that their father is still involved in their lives, even if he does stuff you do not like. Them spending their allowance on toys is really not a big deal, especially given you have them at your place, under your influence for most of the time. My LO's grandparents buy her stuff all the time despite repeatedly telling them to not buy anything. I think the puppy is going too far, and would support a calm, rational discussion with him about buying an animal and expecting children to pitch in with the costs. That is not cool. If he wants a dog, that is his business, but he will have to provide for it.

Remember, you divorced because of these differences, which means that you are not going to convince him to change. Try to mitigate the damage and try to keep things respectful. No one wants to be one of those divorced couples where they are in court 3-4 times a year and have to lay out plans about where each of you can sit at your child's 8th grade graduation(or whatever).

Above all, you screaming or getting mad is not changing anything for the good, and will probably make things worse.

[Giro]

How old are the children?  Since you are paying the allowance, you can control how they spend it.  Perhaps mandate a savings of x amount of their allowance and not allow them to take any of that allowance to their father's house.

And then have a sit down with the children about finances. 

I would straight up tell dad that they aren't allowed to spend any of their allowance at his home and on his pet.  If he wants to provide them an allowance, he can control how they spend that.

[MrsDinero]

Where do the kids get their allowance from?  If you, then you should work with the kids to teach them to save, donate, and spend their money wisely.  I reread and saw that you were giving them the allowance.  I still stand by my previous statement about save, donate, spend.

As long as your ex is making good on his financial obligations, then everything else I would "let it go".

Your kids are being fed. They have a father who, from all appearances, loves them. 

You should let the kids bring home their toys because your house is also their house. They should be free to enjoy their toys wherever they are.  Fighting over where a toy resides is petty and the battle is not worth it.  Let the kids bring their toys to whichever house they want. 

If your ex wants to get a puppy and wants your kids to pay for part of it out of their allowance then this is a little iffy.

#1  If you don't want the puppy then you need to make it clear to the kids and the ex that the puppy is not going to be in your home, that you will not be "puppy sitting".  Then stand firm and confident in your decision.

#2  if you are giving the kids the allowance and teaching them to save, donate, and spend, then I would let them spend their "spend" money however they want.   Talk to them about the responsibility of pet ownership meaning that will be giving up half of their "spend" money for the next 10-14 years.  If they still want to do it, then let them make their own decision, and consider it a life lesson.  What you should make clear is that you will not subsidize the care of the dog.

Another option to consider is talking with your ex about splitting the allowances.  You give half of their expected allowance and he gives the other half.

[AZDude]

I would straight up tell dad that they aren't allowed to spend any of their allowance at his home and on his pet.  If he wants to provide them an allowance, he can control how they spend that.

I agree with you on the issue, but this is unenforceable and counterproductive. If you give your children an allowance, then dictating when and how they can use it is silly. Otherwise, just keep the money and dole out as needed. Plus, legally speaking, she cannot tell the children what to do while they are under the care of their father, aside from the obvious stuff. Again, no one wants a combative relationship with an ex-spouse. Keeping things friendly, even if it means putting up with some questionable decision making and other nonsense, will still make you happier than the constant court battles, upset children, and continuous drama.

[TabbyCat]

I'm not speaking from experience with divorce personally, but I think it's normal for kids to be drawn to consumerism (instinctually, survival means securing commodities - our need for food and shelter at a base level is easily transposed onto other nonsense when those needs and drives are met), and the best thing you can do is continue to teach them the value of saving and planning with money. About the puppy, it actually sounds like he is trying to teach responsibility and financial ownership, he's just coming at it all wrong. Maybe try complimenting him on teaching the kids they need to pitch in with the dog, but let him know you expect them to help walk and care for the dog, but won't be sending money over with them for the dog because getting one is still a parental decision? If that goes downhill to a fight, I would just say they will not be provided allowance to take to his house and leave it at that. Good luck.

[TabbyCat]

 Having the "spend" money be fine for puppy spending makes sense, but it sounds like he is asking them to commit to years of puppy payments and that's a little much for kids, even if almost teens. Having them commit to years of work and care for the dog makes sense, but going into puppy debt and possible arguments about missing puppy money doesn't seem right. Unless he would be likely to just drop it if they stop paying?

[BlueHouse]

pay for this out of their $35 a month allowance that I give them, and that these costs will skyrocket under his control. 

I'm not sure how much you can control about him getting a puppy or how they spend their allowance, unless you're willing to cut their allowance.  This is definitely a difficult challenge.   It sounds as if from past behavior, you expect free spending on the dog and then your ex to charge the kids.  What if you go through all the "what ifs" with your kids and then help them draft an agreement to include an upper limit on what they pay in to the dog's care, etc.  That way, if expenses exceed what they thought would happen it will protect them and limit to a certain # of years.  Also go through what will happen when they have to start paying for their own clothes out of their allowance.  I think if there is an agreement (between kids and dad) that you help to craft, the ex might also see that expenses are likely to go up and he may not want to commit to it once he sees it in black and white.  And he may be more willing to read the darn thing if the kids bring it to him and tell him you helped. 
Make sure they know this isn't because they don't trust their dad.  It's because every agreement should have a written agreement in place to avoid conflict and misunderstandings down the road. 
Good luck. 

[Warlord1986]

I am hoping that you can suggest some language to me before I go and have a ridiculous non PC tirade about my ex with my children.

Been divorced since June of last year.  One (but not the only one) of the main reasons for divorce was his financial incompetence.

He takes kids every other weekend.  He pays me appropriate amount of child support and he reimburses me for half of other child related costs that he is obligated to pay (medical, school trips, etc). 

This is good. Lots of people wish they had that in an ex.

But, every time he brings them back from the weekend with him, they come back with a new toy, or new tshirt, or new something else.  Two weeks ago he was complaining to me that he's looking for a new job because his finances are 'just not working out' .  Did I mention that he takes them out to eat at least 3 meals during the 2 day weekend?

Last night they all came back and both kids have a new Funko Pop toy.  Don't even get me started on these stupid Pop's that he got them to start collecting.  Each of the kids has few dozen of these insane things now.  But I digress. 

How he spends his money is his business. Why does it bother you?

I divorced him to no longer be involved in his finances, so it's not my place to be telling him how to spend his money, as long as he pays child support, etc.  Anyhow, I mention to him that they don't need anymore toys and to please stop buying them.  Or at least to keep them at his place.  And then he tells me that he did not buy these.  Girls bought these new Pops with their allowance money.  I almost blew a gasket when I heard that.  I didn't say anything though.

They bought toys with their own money and you almost blew a gasket? This isn't about your ex spending money on them. This is about you and control. You're trying to control how he spends his money, and you're trying to control how the kids spend theirs. Overreactions to toys are a great way to ruin relationships.

We have a good divorce-relationship going, we treat each other with respect, we do not talk badly about each other with kids, etc.  But this is just going over the line.  He's influencing their financial decisions and encouraging wasteful spending.  Just like he did with me for all 15 years we were married. 

Maybe. But you're acting like this is horrible child abuse. Your ex is a consumer sucka, but buying his daughters toys isn't going over any line. He's their dad. Like it or not, he is allowed to influence their financial decisions, for better or for worse.

Then later in the evening, I found out that they were talking about him getting a puppy and if he does, he wants girls each to pay a quarter of the puppy related costs and he'll pay the other half.  Apparently they talked about it and these costs would include actual puppy $200, plus all vet stuff, food, toys (they said they need at least $50 in toys), bed, etc.  I know nothing about puppies as I've never had a pet, but one, I think this is ridiculous that he expects kids to pay for this out of their $35 a month allowance that I give them, and that these costs will skyrocket under his control.  As a side note, do puppies/dogs really need $50 worth of toys?  What happened to a stick at the park and an old baseball? 

I plan to tell him straight out that I think him expecting girls to pay for puppy is insane.

I agree with you. Expecting his daughters to pay for his dog is laughable. You need to have a calm, rational discussion about pet costs and responsibilities with them.

But what about the rest of the stuff?  How do I address this with kids without frat out telling them that they should not be listening to their father about anything that has to do with money?

Don't. You may be right, but if you try to tell them that then you'll come across as the bad guy and they won't listen to you. Your job is to set a good financial example so they see what responsible financial management behavior looks like. Then they can copy that if they choose.

As for puppy, I will say to them and to him, that I will cut off their allowance if they even thing about contributing to this puppy aside from occasional treats. 

I am absolutely livid about all of this right now.

You might want to ask yourself: is this really a hill you want to die on?

[golden1]

I agree with the poster above me in every respect.  You are fortunate to have an active co parent.  You seem to be very controlling.  I think the puppy thing IS dumb, but so what if the kids get to buy some toys with their allowance.  That is what allowance is for, so that they can use it as they want and learn spending behaviors.  That means that they will occasionally buy things you don't approve of. 

[Kris]

I am hoping that you can suggest some language to me before I go and have a ridiculous non PC tirade about my ex with my children.

Been divorced since June of last year.  One (but not the only one) of the main reasons for divorce was his financial incompetence.

He takes kids every other weekend.  He pays me appropriate amount of child support and he reimburses me for half of other child related costs that he is obligated to pay (medical, school trips, etc). 

This is good. Lots of people wish they had that in an ex.

But, every time he brings them back from the weekend with him, they come back with a new toy, or new tshirt, or new something else.  Two weeks ago he was complaining to me that he's looking for a new job because his finances are 'just not working out' .  Did I mention that he takes them out to eat at least 3 meals during the 2 day weekend?

Last night they all came back and both kids have a new Funko Pop toy.  Don't even get me started on these stupid Pop's that he got them to start collecting.  Each of the kids has few dozen of these insane things now.  But I digress. 

How he spends his money is his business. Why does it bother you?

I divorced him to no longer be involved in his finances, so it's not my place to be telling him how to spend his money, as long as he pays child support, etc.  Anyhow, I mention to him that they don't need anymore toys and to please stop buying them.  Or at least to keep them at his place.  And then he tells me that he did not buy these.  Girls bought these new Pops with their allowance money.  I almost blew a gasket when I heard that.  I didn't say anything though.

They bought toys with their own money and you almost blew a gasket? This isn't about your ex spending money on them. This is about you and control. You're trying to control how he spends his money, and you're trying to control how the kids spend theirs. Overreactions to toys are a great way to ruin relationships.

We have a good divorce-relationship going, we treat each other with respect, we do not talk badly about each other with kids, etc.  But this is just going over the line.  He's influencing their financial decisions and encouraging wasteful spending.  Just like he did with me for all 15 years we were married. 

Maybe. But you're acting like this is horrible child abuse. Your ex is a consumer sucka, but buying his daughters toys isn't going over any line. He's their dad. Like it or not, he is allowed to influence their financial decisions, for better or for worse.

Then later in the evening, I found out that they were talking about him getting a puppy and if he does, he wants girls each to pay a quarter of the puppy related costs and he'll pay the other half.  Apparently they talked about it and these costs would include actual puppy $200, plus all vet stuff, food, toys (they said they need at least $50 in toys), bed, etc.  I know nothing about puppies as I've never had a pet, but one, I think this is ridiculous that he expects kids to pay for this out of their $35 a month allowance that I give them, and that these costs will skyrocket under his control.  As a side note, do puppies/dogs really need $50 worth of toys?  What happened to a stick at the park and an old baseball? 

I plan to tell him straight out that I think him expecting girls to pay for puppy is insane.

I agree with you. Expecting his daughters to pay for his dog is laughable. You need to have a calm, rational discussion about pet costs and responsibilities with them.

But what about the rest of the stuff?  How do I address this with kids without frat out telling them that they should not be listening to their father about anything that has to do with money?

Don't. You may be right, but if you try to tell them that then you'll come across as the bad guy and they won't listen to you. Your job is to set a good financial example so they see what responsible financial management behavior looks like. Then they can copy that if they choose.

As for puppy, I will say to them and to him, that I will cut off their allowance if they even thing about contributing to this puppy aside from occasional treats. 

I am absolutely livid about all of this right now.

You might want to ask yourself: is this really a hill you want to die on?

I agree with Warlord on pretty much all points.

Please don't take this the wrong way… (I really hope you don't) But I am divorced and re-married myself, and I have quite a few friends who are also divorced and trying to co-parent.  One thing that I see an awful, awful lot when parents divorce is that it is very easy for one parent (sometimes both) to sort of unconsciously assume that they are the "main" parent, whose viewpoints should take a bit more precedence than the other parent's when it comes to raising the kids. Often it is the mother, though not always. Often, it is the one who feels he or she is more "responsible", but not always.  Often, it is the one who has primary custody, or who has the children more than 50% of the time, but not always.

The thing is, both mother and father are THE parents.  Neither is more important that the other. And one of the horribly difficult things about divorce is, you both have different ideas about some things -- which is why you are divorced. But you both are the parents, and neither parent, as long as they both are actively involved, really ought to be presuming that their opinions or way of doing things are to be obeyed.  You'll both have to negotiate things, and you'll both have to agree to differences of opinion and even practice from time to time.

So, by all means, talk to your ex about the dog.  I do think that it's unfair to have him put that financial burden on your children, and hopefully he will see reason on that.  But you're going to have to let him run his household as he sees fit. The way you can teach your kids is by example.  And the way you can deal with differences in money matters with your ex is to simply say, "that is the way Dad does it at his house, but it is not the way we do it in this house." That is the best thing you can do for your children, I think.  If they see your ex in financial difficulty later in life, they will be able to put two and two together. 

[Josiecat]

Please encourage they to get a shelter dog instead of buying one.  There are so many that need homes. 

Also, wanted to mention that Dave Ramsey has a Financial Peace Junior kit that you might consider for your kids.

[Noodle]

I don't even think it's unfair to ask the kids to pitch in on the start-up costs related to the puppy, although I do think ongoing costs should be carried by the parent. I remember several occasions where my parents either matched funds with us when we wanted something expensive, or asked us to give up something else (ie, we can go to Disney, but only if you agree to skip Christmas presents this year). Frankly, there are people on this forum who wish they had understood the financial commitments involved in a pet before ending up with several of them.

Although, honestly, if my kids came home with a story like this, I would wonder if a) they were reporting correctly or b) if the other parent was trying to get out of having a pet by making it so hard it wasn't worth the effort.

[WildHare]

You haven't been divorced very long.  Are you in any type of counseling that might help you deal with this?  Please understand I am not in any way suggesting you are 'wrong' , but as someone who dealt with a difficult 'ex' for many years, I wish I had taken my own advice and learned some techniques to get through those years with a minimum of stress.  The fact is once you get divorced, you lose control over what goes on with your kids half the time.  He probably knows how to push your buttons.  You have to learn how to ignore it.

[MsPeacock]

Well, ex and I pay the kids allowances separately. His at his house and mine at mine. It is a horrible acrimonious situation and he categorically refuses to let the kids bring any of their toys, sports equipment, etc from one house to the other. I would suggest that if you want to supervise how the kids spend money you give them you have to change the arrangement with them about how you pay allowance.

However, as others have noted, this may not be the hill you want to die on. The kids are ONE family with two parents and two houses. Help them negotiate their way through it rather than looking for battles unless health and safety are at risk.

Ask them what they want to do about the puppy. Help the, figure out how much of their allowance it will cost, if they want to afford it, etc and allow the, to make the decision. This will do more to teach them financial responsibility than pitching a battle with their father over the issue.

Will second what WildHare said. I asked my lawyers for a name of a psychologist who specialized in acrimonious divorce and knew he laws. She has been a tremendous help to me in setting boundaries and stepping back from the insanity. I have to pay out of pocket, no insurance accepted by her, and it is totally worth it.