Author Topic: Justifying tattoos post MMM  (Read 36394 times)

ambimammular

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #200 on: July 11, 2016, 08:59:23 AM »

In fact, in most parts of the world, you would receive heavy scrutiny and discrimination because you will be associated with hardened criminals, gangs and the worst in society.

I know I wouldn't want to be associated with a butterfly-on-ankle gang ;)

Metric Mouse

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #201 on: July 11, 2016, 07:38:14 PM »

In fact, in most parts of the world, you would receive heavy scrutiny and discrimination because you will be associated with hardened criminals, gangs and the worst in society.

I know I wouldn't want to be associated with a butterfly-on-ankle gang ;)

Good thing. You'd be beat up in my neck of the woods. It's all Navel Dolphins territory in these parts...

JoRocka

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #202 on: July 12, 2016, 01:42:34 PM »
Cool - glad you're willing to have a conversation.

I'd like your opinion - how would you compare the purchase of a tattoo with other anti-Mustachian items like a gas-guzzling SUV, an over-the-top McMansion, etc.? Do you think the people that purchase those items care what other people think? Or is it a deeply personal purchase that no one else would understand?

I'm not putting then in the same category (I honestly don't think they are - tattoos are much harder to get rid of!), I'm more interested in the psychology behind the purchase decision.

How about you give me your opinion on other anti-Mustachian purchases like foreign vacations or buying artwork to hang on your walls. Do you think the people who purchase those care what other people think? Or do they just like spending money on rewarding experiences and beautiful/meaningful art that will bring them joy for years to come?

Well, what I gather from your response is that you think people buy things only for themselves - either to enjoy the experience or to enjoy the happiness from looking at beautiful artwork.

Is that right?

Fundamentally, yes. But as I acknowledged earlier, we always consider others in our decisions, to some extent or another. This is true for literally everything, so I don't see why tattoos should be considered any different. And frankly, the fact that they are permanent is an argument in favor of it being a mustachian purchase, if anything.

As long as you remain static and don't change at all from the point you get the tattoo until your death, yes.  If your thoughts/ideas/preferences might ever change from that point on then no, it would be a waste of money.

I find this really interesting b/c my tattoo doesn't represent anything about the future or any currently beliefs.
 It's a bookend to a chapter in my life.
Yes it means something to me- and yes it's fairly personal- but I usually will just comment on "it's a bookend to a chapter in my life" rather than the real details-because that is the truth of it.

I have changed significantly in many ways in the last 2 years- and even more so since the time in my life as to what inspired my art. And I'm excited about the next steps in my life- the next chapters. I cannot go back and change the past. It has happened. And it's over and done with and I'm free to move on.  Changes and all.  Nothing that comes in the future will change the past. So really those two things- aren't connected- at least for me.



Tattoos- like art are highly controversial. Some people just like art. for some they represent events, or people. For some they just like the process. None of the reasons or lack of reasons is wrong.

that's the point of this all. Art. And expression.  Some people are openly expressive- some people are quietly expressive. There is no right answer. And none of it is wrong. It's ART.  That's the beauty of art.


People want to make it cut and dry- but you cannot make it so.  I'm so incredibly libertarian on this subject. Do what's best for you. As long as you aren't hurting me- I'm all good.

PFHC

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #203 on: July 12, 2016, 10:48:52 PM »
As long as you remain static and don't change at all from the point you get the tattoo until your death, yes.  If your thoughts/ideas/preferences might ever change from that point on then no, it would be a waste of money.
I understand where this view comes from, but my experience leads me to disagree.

I got my first tattoo 15 years ago. I was 21, a child in many respects. I was single, living in a tiny apartment, working building houses for $10/hr, drove a VW bug I got for $500, and thought I was going to be a writer. Main priorities were drinking, writing, and riding my bike.

15 years later, I'm married, have two little kids, work as an engineer, own a house, and am starting a business. My main priorities are raising awesome kids, being in love with my wife, and living a full existence. I am a VERY different man than when I was 21.

Guess what? I love that tattoo. Its awesome. I drew it in one of my journals, its tiny, and cost $50. When I look at it today, it gives me the same feeling it did all those years ago. Its rad.

My view is that if you would like a tattoo, you are being thoughtful about it, and its financially reasonable, then there is no rational argument against it. There a lots of opinions against it, but none that hold water when looked at practically. Its your life, do as you like.

As far as tattoos being financially reasonable, here's my take:

I have 12 tattoos. I have spent $1300 on them in the last 15 years. Say I didn't spend that money and instead invested it. So, I spread the investments out over the last 15 years, assume a reasonable 6% interest, and I would have to invest ~$2400 right now to to equal the same return by the time I'm 75. My current hourly rate for my side gig is $150/hr. I work two full days and I have paid for this frivolity. So, have they been worth two days of work?

Yep.

To me, there is a kind of Mustachian credo that can be arrived at here:

If you are mindful about your choices for fun/entertainment, they don't harm the earth or others, and they are reasonable financially, then go for it.

We don't have agree with others' choices for fun. They should not be having that fun for anyone but themselves. Live and let live.

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snacky

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #205 on: July 13, 2016, 09:39:11 AM »
Random stranger: is that a tattoo? (Gesturing to my heavily tattooed arm)
Me: yes
RS: what brand is it?
Me: um... It's a tree?
RS: no, like, where did you buy it?
Me: (names tattoo place)
RS: so it's always there, like, it doesn't wash off?
Me: it's always there.
RS: have you tried?
Me: well, i've showered a bunch of times since i got it, so...


My ex went through an evangelical christian phase. He got a huge cross+ jesusfish sleeve. bright colours, unmistakeable. six months later and for the rest of his life he regretted it. I figure get something meaningful, sure, but something not so specific that there isn't room to grow or change. I figure I'll always like trees and the moon, for example, and so far I have not regretted my ink. The opposite, in fact.

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Lagom

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #207 on: July 14, 2016, 11:30:55 AM »
Man, I'm never going to be able to travel again? Why didn't someone tell me!!!???

In other news, that "advice" is silly and completely wrong. (but what about the Japanese bathhouses!?!?)

...So, it's been a week now, and the tattoo is healing quite nicely. A bit peely and itchy at the moment, which is mildly annoying, but it seems that's par for the course. Hepatitis avoided. *phew*

As I get more used to seeing it in the mirror, I am increasingly happy with my decision. Already plotting the next one! ;)

forestj

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #208 on: July 15, 2016, 08:28:54 PM »
I mean, there really are some places where you "can't" have tattoos. Like, tattooing is actually illegal. South Korea for example. Where your industry leading Samsung phone and Hyundai car came from. 

I wouldn't worry too much about traveling with your tattoo. Especially since you can cover it up. But don't underestimate cultural differences.  :)

I'm honestly surprised this thread got as much attention as it did. I didn't know tattoos were such a divisive subject.

Adding to what other people said, sometimes it bugs me when other people ask me about my tattoo. It seems like most people expect a passionate story about something meaningful, spiritual, or mystical.  Like I am supposed to be excited to have an opportunity to be "deep" and talk about myself and my beliefs.  Really though, It doesn't have some deep meaning, or even some shallow meaning, and if it did, I wouldn't want to monopolize conversations to let everyone know about it. OTOH, for a lot of people it's just a friendly conversation starter.  No problem with that. But I'll be damned if I'm going to listen to a 5 minute speech on all the norse gods and sacred geometry and how they are related to your sleeve, lol :P

I like the punk and DIY ethic of doing your own tattoos with friends. It sucks that they won't let you give blood if you do it, and yeah, there is a statistical reason for that. People are dumb and they make mistakes.  But if you aren't a slob, do your due diligence, and control your space, don't let other people near your shit while you are doing a session, you really aren't going to get infections or any diseases or anything. IMO that's one of the fun parts about it. Prove within some some margin that YOU are in control and you did it right because you know your shit. IMO it's a very "mustachian" undertaking. You can "take back" an arcane and heavily licensed (and expensive)  practice, almost like its medicine, or god forbid, banking, or something. Peel back the curtain and get into the nitty gritty of sterile gear and creating a safe setting. It's empowering and can (in my opinion) give you a healthy perspective from a different angle you may not have explored before.  Out of all the asinine stuff that passes for "punk" these days, doing stick-and-pokes like a pro is one thing I refuse to scorn. 
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 08:57:28 PM by forestj »

Lagom

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #209 on: July 15, 2016, 08:52:23 PM »
I mean, there really are some places where you "can't" have tattoos. Like, tattooing is actually illegal. South Korea for example. Where your industry leading Samsung phone and Hyundai car came from. 

I wouldn't worry too much about traveling with your tattoo. Especially since you can't cover it up. But don't underestimate cultural differences.  :)

I'm honestly surprised this thread got as much attention as it did. I didn't know tattoos were such a divisive subject.

Me too. All I wanted to do was chat with some folks about their own tattooing experiences as mustachian individuals. I didn't expect the thread to get past one page, to be honest! But I guess it's one of those things some people have weirdly judgmental opinions about. Ce'st la vie.

I certainly believe there are a few places that might become more difficult to visit, but I am pretty skeptical it's anything more than that. I would be willing to wager, for example, that I could walk around in a tank top with no issues in Korea (besides a few stares), especially as a white american. But even if not, I'm not exactly worried about running out of cool places to visit. Just seems a strange thing to use as "evidence" that it's a bad idea to get a tattoo (unless you reeeaaallly want to visit a Japanese bathhouse, although I hear they are experimenting with relaxing that restriction for tourists). 

PFHC

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #210 on: July 16, 2016, 05:09:50 AM »
I mean, there really are some places where you "can't" have tattoos. Like, tattooing is actually illegal. South Korea for example. Where your industry leading Samsung phone and Hyundai car came from.
This is not correct. You can have tattoos. You can also get tattoos. But, it is "highly regulated" and has to be "done by a medical doctor". The quotes are because it is handled the same way as the sex trade. It is "illegal", but you can find it on any street corner in about any city in the country. Reference? I lived in South Korea for a year, and have several friends who were tattooed while there. I also used to run a lot there and was complimented on my "skin pictures" on more than one occasion. Also this.
Quote
I wouldn't worry too much about traveling with your tattoo. Especially since you can cover it up. But don't underestimate cultural differences.  :)
I've been on every continent except Antartica. Not one problem, yet. I would say that you shouldn't overestimate them, either. Handle it like everything else, be respectful and you will be fine.

Quote
I like the punk and DIY ethic of doing your own tattoos with friends. It sucks that they won't let you give blood if you do it, and yeah, there is a statistical reason for that. People are dumb and they make mistakes.  But if you aren't a slob, do your due diligence, and control your space, don't let other people near your shit while you are doing a session, you really aren't going to get infections or any diseases or anything. IMO that's one of the fun parts about it. Prove within some some margin that YOU are in control and you did it right because you know your shit. IMO it's a very "mustachian" undertaking. You can "take back" an arcane and heavily licensed (and expensive)  practice, almost like its medicine, or god forbid, banking, or something. Peel back the curtain and get into the nitty gritty of sterile gear and creating a safe setting. It's empowering and can (in my opinion) give you a healthy perspective from a different angle you may not have explored before.  Out of all the asinine stuff that passes for "punk" these days, doing stick-and-pokes like a pro is one thing I refuse to scorn.
I agree with this. I know a guy who I worked with on a boat who did his own. They were awesome, both the actual tattoo, and the story behind them.

Shane

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #211 on: July 23, 2016, 12:01:07 PM »
This article on tattoo artists in Korea and the challenges they face there was interesting, so I thought I'd share it with the group:

The Illegal Tattooists of South Korea

GetItRight

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #212 on: July 23, 2016, 03:47:13 PM »
I don't see this as particularly different than going on an $800 vacation, something that pretty much everyone on this board would say is a worthwhile expenditure.

^ Nail on the head. I consider a tattoo similar to spending money on travel. I consider travel a waste as it's temporary luxury. I'd rather buy things, posessions, that make every day or at least every weekend a vacation. A tattoo is similar in my mind, but lasts a lifetime. I don't have any, I've wanted to but could never justify the cost as I don't see the ROI on enjoyment a year or more from now. I can get a shirt to make a statement, it costs a lot less in both time and money and is more practical (easily changed). Regardless, I understand the bit about wanting to care less about what others think. Sometimes you just need to pull the trigger and get out of your shell to realize nobody really cares and you've mostly been inhibiting your own enjoyment of life for no reason. Bottom line is if it has value to you, go for it but don't let it be something that piles on top of other luxuries and becomes a significant and regular expense.

Miss Piggy

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #213 on: August 10, 2016, 07:57:29 AM »
I would be willing to wager, for example, that I could walk around in a tank top with no issues in Korea (besides a few stares), especially as a white american.

Please don't. Tank tops are worse than tattoos!  ;)

Lagom

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #214 on: August 10, 2016, 10:17:16 AM »
I'm sorry but I can't even count the number of people I know without 2 nickels to rub together who are littered with tattoos.  Save the money.

This is relevant...how, exactly?


Relevant?  er....  We're on a financial responsibility message board?   Tattoos, IN MY OPINION, are like smoking, fancy cars, booze.  A waste of money.  Again, just my opinion.  Just don't respond with something stupid like "This is relevant... how, exactly?"

You are certainly entitled to that opinion, but you realize that your opinion in this particular instance is really only relevant to the question of whether you should get a tattoo yourself, right? As has been pointed out repeatedly, a tattoo is much better compared to buying artwork than any of the things you bring up, because that's literally what you're doing when you get one. People have different tastes and levels of satisfaction/happiness that they derive from art, and I think there is a line beyond which spending on art is probably extravagant, but that line is not a few hundred bucks when the payoff is many years of satisfaction.  That's a much better happiness ROI than a vacation, after all!

Since this thread has been resurrected, I'll also offer an update: It has now been a month since I got my first tattoo (a big one at that!), and I am 110% happy with my decision--even more so than I was immediately afterwards. Honestly, getting a tattoo is much less of a big deal than people without them think it is. I know, because I thought it was a big deal before I got one. Turns out, life is pretty much the same except I have a new reason to smile every time I look in the mirror after a shower.

I would be willing to wager, for example, that I could walk around in a tank top with no issues in Korea (besides a few stares), especially as a white american.

Please don't. Tank tops are worse than tattoos!  ;)

Miss Piggy, you wound me! I'll have you know I only wear the classiest and most dapper tank tops that money can buy (and they are totally a justifiable expense!) ;)

 

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #215 on: August 15, 2016, 09:55:56 AM »
I'm sorry but I can't even count the number of people I know without 2 nickels to rub together who are littered with tattoos.  Save the money.

This is relevant...how, exactly?

Relevant?  er....  We're on a financial responsibility message board?   Tattoos, IN MY OPINION, are like smoking, fancy cars, booze.  A waste of money.  Again, just my opinion.  Just don't respond with something stupid like "This is relevant... how, exactly?"

Coming from a person who inferred the argument "I know poor people with tattoos therefore tattoos are a waste of money"? Ironic.

Your personal experience with people "without 2 nickels to rub together" who have tattoos has no bearing whatsoever on the OP's decision. Asking how that's relevant is a pertinent question - a question for which I still await an answer.

I'm sorry but I can't even count the number of people I know without 2 nickels to rub together who are littered with tattoos.  Save the money.

This is relevant...how, exactly?


Relevant?  er....  We're on a financial responsibility message board?   Tattoos, IN MY OPINION, are like smoking, fancy cars, booze.  A waste of money.  Again, just my opinion.  Just don't respond with something stupid like "This is relevant... how, exactly?"

You are certainly entitled to that opinion, but you realize that your opinion in this particular instance is really only relevant to the question of whether you should get a tattoo yourself, right? As has been pointed out repeatedly, a tattoo is much better compared to buying artwork than any of the things you bring up, because that's literally what you're doing when you get one. People have different tastes and levels of satisfaction/happiness that they derive from art, and I think there is a line beyond which spending on art is probably extravagant, but that line is not a few hundred bucks when the payoff is many years of satisfaction.  That's a much better happiness ROI than a vacation, after all!

Since this thread has been resurrected, I'll also offer an update: It has now been a month since I got my first tattoo (a big one at that!), and I am 110% happy with my decision--even more so than I was immediately afterwards. Honestly, getting a tattoo is much less of a big deal than people without them think it is. I know, because I thought it was a big deal before I got one. Turns out, life is pretty much the same except I have a new reason to smile every time I look in the mirror after a shower.

I would be willing to wager, for example, that I could walk around in a tank top with no issues in Korea (besides a few stares), especially as a white american.

Please don't. Tank tops are worse than tattoos!  ;)

Miss Piggy, you wound me! I'll have you know I only wear the classiest and most dapper tank tops that money can buy (and they are totally a justifiable expense!) ;)

I'm glad you're happy with your choice!  Everyone chooses things based on priorities, that to others may be a "waste of money."  Travel, pets, relationships, children...the list goes on.

ambimammular

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #216 on: August 20, 2016, 09:27:06 PM »
DH finally got his tattoo! It's gorgeous. The attached picture doesn't show the 3 boats on the forearm and chop stamp on the wrist.

You can read more about it here: http://tattootemple.hk/latest-artwork-features

snacky

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #217 on: August 20, 2016, 09:29:12 PM »
That is amazing! I love it.

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #218 on: August 20, 2016, 09:30:25 PM »
DH finally got his tattoo! It's gorgeous. The attached picture doesn't show the 3 boats on the forearm and chop stamp on the wrist.

You can read more about it here: http://tattootemple.hk/latest-artwork-features

I'm not a big fan of sleeves, but wow! That is a beautiful tattoo.

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #219 on: August 20, 2016, 09:38:03 PM »
DH finally got his tattoo! It's gorgeous. The attached picture doesn't show the 3 boats on the forearm and chop stamp on the wrist.

You can read more about it here: http://tattootemple.hk/latest-artwork-features
Did he go to Hong Kong just for the tattoo?

ambimammular

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #220 on: August 20, 2016, 10:03:48 PM »
DH finally got his tattoo! It's gorgeous. The attached picture doesn't show the 3 boats on the forearm and chop stamp on the wrist.

You can read more about it here: http://tattootemple.hk/latest-artwork-features
Did he go to Hong Kong just for the tattoo?

Yep. Last year he had an appointment with her and worked out a teaching gig in China to pay for the flight and the income was dedicated to the tattoo. The artist was in the hospital during their appointment so he came back without it. This year, we had so many frequent flyer miles that we couldn't use before they expired (plus enough to cover several years of our travel needs), so he got both the flight and hotel with miles and used his saved teaching income for the tattoo.

PFHC

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #221 on: August 20, 2016, 10:20:39 PM »
DH finally got his tattoo! It's gorgeous. The attached picture doesn't show the 3 boats on the forearm and chop stamp on the wrist.

You can read more about it here: http://tattootemple.hk/latest-artwork-features
Did he go to Hong Kong just for the tattoo?

Yep. Last year he had an appointment with her and worked out a teaching gig in China to pay for the flight and the income was dedicated to the tattoo. The artist was in the hospital during their appointment so he came back without it. This year, we had so many frequent flyer miles that we couldn't use before they expired (plus enough to cover several years of our travel needs), so he got both the flight and hotel with miles and used his saved teaching income for the tattoo.
Wow! What a great story! That's my favorite kind of tattoo... those with a great story. Thanks for sharing!

ambimammular

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #222 on: August 21, 2016, 07:05:51 AM »
DH finally got his tattoo! It's gorgeous. The attached picture doesn't show the 3 boats on the forearm and chop stamp on the wrist.

You can read more about it here: http://tattootemple.hk/latest-artwork-features
Did he go to Hong Kong just for the tattoo?

Yep. Last year he had an appointment with her and worked out a teaching gig in China to pay for the flight and the income was dedicated to the tattoo. The artist was in the hospital during their appointment so he came back without it. This year, we had so many frequent flyer miles that we couldn't use before they expired (plus enough to cover several years of our travel needs), so he got both the flight and hotel with miles and used his saved teaching income for the tattoo.

It's actually leaned net positive because I got to spend the remaining income on anything I wanted (namely VTSAX). We both know what motivates each other. :)

Metric Mouse

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #223 on: August 21, 2016, 08:19:36 AM »
DH finally got his tattoo! It's gorgeous. The attached picture doesn't show the 3 boats on the forearm and chop stamp on the wrist.

You can read more about it here: http://tattootemple.hk/latest-artwork-features

Fantastic.

iwasjustwondering

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #224 on: August 21, 2016, 12:15:26 PM »
It's your body and your money, so do what you want.

Personally I associate tats with Nazi concentration camps, gangs, and my friend getting hepatitis during college.

Thank you for your productive, and not at all sophmorically passive aggressive contribution to our conversation :D

You seem really angry at everyone who posts that they don't like tattoos. Surely you expected that some random people on the internet would hold different opinions than you do? FWIW I have no opinions about tattoos at all really in either direction and think everyone should spend their money and decorate their body however they like. It just seems like you are sarcastically responding to everyone who says they don't like them, and following it up with a smiley face...which seems quite passive aggressive, actually.

+1. 

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #225 on: August 23, 2016, 01:13:51 PM »
Wow! This thread got me thinking a lot about my tattoo, which I got 6 years ago at 19 years old. It is on my side/hip slightly towards my back, and honestly I don't see it or think about it much. But thinking about it now, and all it meant to me at the time when I got it and what it means to me now has me feeling all warm and fuzzy inside :)

And now, for the first time since then, I want another one!!

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #226 on: August 23, 2016, 02:29:25 PM »
I don't understand the tattoo craze, but I'm enjoying this thread. 

I have seen a few nice tattoos, but most make me wonder "why?".   Do the folks that have tattoos feel the same as I do, or do they tend to appreciate the majority of the ones they see? 

Personally, I wouldn't want one because they are a permanent statement.  I place a value on the freedom to change my tastes & views about things over time. 

How have you dealt with choosing a tattoo that you later (or not so later) regretted? 

Body painting seems more my style.

 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2016, 02:31:29 PM by GreenEggs »

kitkat

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Re: Justifying tattoos post MMM
« Reply #227 on: August 23, 2016, 02:59:29 PM »
I don't understand the tattoo craze, but I'm enjoying this thread. 

I have seen a few nice tattoos, but most make me wonder "why?".   Do the folks that have tattoos feel the same as I do, or do they tend to appreciate the majority of the ones they see? 

Personally, I wouldn't want one because they are a permanent statement.  I place a value on the freedom to change my tastes & views about things over time. 

How have you dealt with choosing a tattoo that you later (or not so later) regretted? 

Body painting seems more my style.

I don't feel the "why?" when I see others, except perhaps in the sense of curiosity as to how that specific design came about or what it means to them (if anything).

One of the things I like most about my tattoo is that is a simple image of a certain tree, and not some quote or specific thing whose "meaning" is really locked down. The image had many meanings for me at the time, and over the past ~6 years that meaning has grown and evolved. I like that it (1) memorializes a certain moment in my life, and all my thoughts/dreams/etc that I had at that time and (2) continuously provides new meaning and can represent whatever I feel it represents. Its like how, with art, many times the artist's intended meaning or purpose is not relevant, but instead it is what the art means to the person experiencing it (whether it be a painting, song, movie, etc.). The tattoo doesn't have to always mean what it once meant.

I say all that just to offer up a different view of the "permanent statement" way of thinking. I definitely could see how someone's general tastes or style could change in such away that they no longer enjoy their tattoo. And there are of course just general bad decisions that people tend to make :)