Justifying tattoos post MMM

[Cassie]

When I was 44 a group of women from work all went and got a small tattoo on our ankles. 18 years later none are unhappy about it. About 5 years ago I got one on my upper arm. Some others have gotten a few more too.  We were all professionals and worked helping people find work and we did what we advise our clients to do-get it where you can easily cover it up if you need to.  Most people don't want to wear long sleeves in summer when it is hot. Also never get them on your hands.  Enjoy and send us a pic!

[human]

Still can't claim confirmation bias without offering new evidence. In my opinion most tattoos are terrible, come to think of it not sure how you can claim confirmation bias regarding a positio on body art at all. It's not about being a prude
It's about not liking bad tattoos which most of the pixies, flowers, angel wing, tribal tats on the lower back and on the bicep or shoulder really are.

OK, you've been somewhat less categorically judgmental than the "only knuckle-draggers who never went to school and will never have a real job" folks, so I will actually bother my to expand my point. I was initially lumping you in with those guys at because your earlier posts seemed in line with them. Apologies for misinterpreting.

What I meant regarding confirmation bias is that people who dislike tattoos tend to have pre-formed opinions about them which lead them to disproportionately notice tattooed people that (they think) confirm those opinions. Pre-judging someone like me is an expansion of this bias. This especially applies to the "all tattoos are trashy no matter what" folks, but also to those are OK with the idea of tattoos but think most are ugly, such as yourself. That said, I totally agree all of the examples you gave are not particularly attractive (at least in my opinion), but a) I still don't judge people who get those. If it makes them happy, more power to them. And b) You have zero evidence that I am following that path. You're just assuming I must be and then demanding that I prove otherwise. That is you pre-judging me based on pre-conceived opinions of people who get tattoos. I see no reason to "prove" I'm different since I don't care if anyone but my wife likes my tat (and I'm still favoring my opinion over hers. Just giving her some veto power). Plus, there is no evidence that you have remotely good taste, so why would I value your opinion anyway?

Like Jaguar Paw, I bet more people than you think out there have very nice ink, but just don't bother to show it off all the time because like with me, the tattoos are for them first and foremost.

The comments on this thread are moderately amusing, despite people not even trying to be funny. Impressive.

On the prospect of tattoos having an impact on getting a job:  I waited to get a real career before I got anything tattooed below a t-shirt line on my arms. After that, I decided that because I had a real job, it would be safe to get two full sleeves down to my wrists. Realistically one could get tattooed down to their wrists without it being much of an issue and wear a long sleeved shirt to work or a job interview. I always tell my younger family members to keep this in mind when thinking about getting a tattoo. For men, the ability to cover up a tattoo for a career generally cancels out hands and neck. For women wearing a dress or something to work it may cancel out arms and lower legs as well.

The point being that tons of tattoos can be covered up without anyone even knowing. Can people get judged for having tattoos? Sure. But everyone gets judged for something.

Make sure to post a photo of your tattoo! I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Thanks for the perspective! I'm with you that waiting until your career is established is probably a good idea, but as you say, it's pretty easy to cover up to the point that no one ever knows. I suppose I could post a pic after my session if people are curious. I'm not even planning to post on Facebook, but I really must know whether human thinks I've made a terrible mistake ;)

Dropped back in here to take a look and I'm skipping the last two pages. I suppose good ink can be covered but I still see a lot of really bad stuff and nowadays it's not jail birds that get them but the bored housewife, the nerdy IT guy who always dreamed of getting one but for some reason has held back.

It's just become eye roll worthy more than anything else.

If a sewing needle and india ink turn's one's crank that's fine. One can also get all in everyone's face about how this shows "I don't take shit from anyone" (which can be done much more easily with polite but firm verbal communication skills), but don't be confused and upset when most people express their opinion that it looks like garbage, because well it really does . . .

[JLee]

Still can't claim confirmation bias without offering new evidence. In my opinion most tattoos are terrible, come to think of it not sure how you can claim confirmation bias regarding a positio on body art at all. It's not about being a prude
It's about not liking bad tattoos which most of the pixies, flowers, angel wing, tribal tats on the lower back and on the bicep or shoulder really are.

OK, you've been somewhat less categorically judgmental than the "only knuckle-draggers who never went to school and will never have a real job" folks, so I will actually bother my to expand my point. I was initially lumping you in with those guys at because your earlier posts seemed in line with them. Apologies for misinterpreting.

What I meant regarding confirmation bias is that people who dislike tattoos tend to have pre-formed opinions about them which lead them to disproportionately notice tattooed people that (they think) confirm those opinions. Pre-judging someone like me is an expansion of this bias. This especially applies to the "all tattoos are trashy no matter what" folks, but also to those are OK with the idea of tattoos but think most are ugly, such as yourself. That said, I totally agree all of the examples you gave are not particularly attractive (at least in my opinion), but a) I still don't judge people who get those. If it makes them happy, more power to them. And b) You have zero evidence that I am following that path. You're just assuming I must be and then demanding that I prove otherwise. That is you pre-judging me based on pre-conceived opinions of people who get tattoos. I see no reason to "prove" I'm different since I don't care if anyone but my wife likes my tat (and I'm still favoring my opinion over hers. Just giving her some veto power). Plus, there is no evidence that you have remotely good taste, so why would I value your opinion anyway?

Like Jaguar Paw, I bet more people than you think out there have very nice ink, but just don't bother to show it off all the time because like with me, the tattoos are for them first and foremost.

The comments on this thread are moderately amusing, despite people not even trying to be funny. Impressive.

On the prospect of tattoos having an impact on getting a job:  I waited to get a real career before I got anything tattooed below a t-shirt line on my arms. After that, I decided that because I had a real job, it would be safe to get two full sleeves down to my wrists. Realistically one could get tattooed down to their wrists without it being much of an issue and wear a long sleeved shirt to work or a job interview. I always tell my younger family members to keep this in mind when thinking about getting a tattoo. For men, the ability to cover up a tattoo for a career generally cancels out hands and neck. For women wearing a dress or something to work it may cancel out arms and lower legs as well.

The point being that tons of tattoos can be covered up without anyone even knowing. Can people get judged for having tattoos? Sure. But everyone gets judged for something.

Make sure to post a photo of your tattoo! I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Thanks for the perspective! I'm with you that waiting until your career is established is probably a good idea, but as you say, it's pretty easy to cover up to the point that no one ever knows. I suppose I could post a pic after my session if people are curious. I'm not even planning to post on Facebook, but I really must know whether human thinks I've made a terrible mistake ;)

Dropped back in here to take a look and I'm skipping the last two pages. I suppose good ink can be covered but I still see a lot of really bad stuff and nowadays it's not jail birds that get them but the bored housewife, the nerdy IT guy who always dreamed of getting one but for some reason has held back.

It's just become eye roll worthy more than anything else.

If a sewing needle and india ink turn's one's crank that's fine. One can also get all in everyone's face about how this shows "I don't take shit from anyone" (which can be done much more easily with polite but firm verbal communication skills), but don't be confused and upset when most people express their opinion that it looks like garbage, because well it really does . . .

About as eye-roll worthy as your post, I guess.  Aesthetics are subjective.

I happen to like well-done tattoos.  I also love sidecuts and unnatural hair colors.  Plenty of other people don't like that at all...but hey, people are different.  If everybody was the same, life would be really boring.

[Metric Mouse]

Still can't claim confirmation bias without offering new evidence. In my opinion most tattoos are terrible, come to think of it not sure how you can claim confirmation bias regarding a positio on body art at all. It's not about being a prude
It's about not liking bad tattoos which most of the pixies, flowers, angel wing, tribal tats on the lower back and on the bicep or shoulder really are.

OK, you've been somewhat less categorically judgmental than the "only knuckle-draggers who never went to school and will never have a real job" folks, so I will actually bother my to expand my point. I was initially lumping you in with those guys at because your earlier posts seemed in line with them. Apologies for misinterpreting.

What I meant regarding confirmation bias is that people who dislike tattoos tend to have pre-formed opinions about them which lead them to disproportionately notice tattooed people that (they think) confirm those opinions. Pre-judging someone like me is an expansion of this bias. This especially applies to the "all tattoos are trashy no matter what" folks, but also to those are OK with the idea of tattoos but think most are ugly, such as yourself. That said, I totally agree all of the examples you gave are not particularly attractive (at least in my opinion), but a) I still don't judge people who get those. If it makes them happy, more power to them. And b) You have zero evidence that I am following that path. You're just assuming I must be and then demanding that I prove otherwise. That is you pre-judging me based on pre-conceived opinions of people who get tattoos. I see no reason to "prove" I'm different since I don't care if anyone but my wife likes my tat (and I'm still favoring my opinion over hers. Just giving her some veto power). Plus, there is no evidence that you have remotely good taste, so why would I value your opinion anyway?

Like Jaguar Paw, I bet more people than you think out there have very nice ink, but just don't bother to show it off all the time because like with me, the tattoos are for them first and foremost.

The comments on this thread are moderately amusing, despite people not even trying to be funny. Impressive.

On the prospect of tattoos having an impact on getting a job:  I waited to get a real career before I got anything tattooed below a t-shirt line on my arms. After that, I decided that because I had a real job, it would be safe to get two full sleeves down to my wrists. Realistically one could get tattooed down to their wrists without it being much of an issue and wear a long sleeved shirt to work or a job interview. I always tell my younger family members to keep this in mind when thinking about getting a tattoo. For men, the ability to cover up a tattoo for a career generally cancels out hands and neck. For women wearing a dress or something to work it may cancel out arms and lower legs as well.

The point being that tons of tattoos can be covered up without anyone even knowing. Can people get judged for having tattoos? Sure. But everyone gets judged for something.

Make sure to post a photo of your tattoo! I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Thanks for the perspective! I'm with you that waiting until your career is established is probably a good idea, but as you say, it's pretty easy to cover up to the point that no one ever knows. I suppose I could post a pic after my session if people are curious. I'm not even planning to post on Facebook, but I really must know whether human thinks I've made a terrible mistake ;)

Dropped back in here to take a look and I'm skipping the last two pages. I suppose good ink can be covered but I still see a lot of really bad stuff and nowadays it's not jail birds that get them but the bored housewife, the nerdy IT guy who always dreamed of getting one but for some reason has held back.

It's just become eye roll worthy more than anything else.

If a sewing needle and india ink turn's one's crank that's fine. One can also get all in everyone's face about how this shows "I don't take shit from anyone" (which can be done much more easily with polite but firm verbal communication skills), but don't be confused and upset when most people express their opinion that it looks like garbage, because well it really does . . .

About as eye-roll worthy as your post, I guess.  Aesthetics are subjective.

I happen to like well-done tattoos.  I also love sidecuts and unnatural hair colors.  Plenty of other people don't like that at all...but hey, people are different.  If everybody was the same, life would be really boring.

The funny thing is once you're inked, normal skin starts to look... boring. Very eye-rolling when someone's too timid or concerned about what people will think to get inked.

And anyone who comes up to touch ink or XS's pregnant belly will get told to take my last flying fuck and scram. Anyone who thinks ink on someone else is for them needs to pull their narcissistic head out of their prudish ass. It's fine if they don't understand; some people don't understand interracial couples or early retirees. It's their ignorance, and not my job to educate them.  Its also their problem if they're wound so tight they get offended when someone points out their ignorance or rudeness.  I don't go put my fingerprints all over someone's Honda Fit or beater minivan - it's their business, and even though they could choose better options for transportation, my panties remain unbunched as I go about my day.

[human]

Who the hell said anything about touching you? You're all over the place! Maybe you need your kwn thread.

People keep thinking the dislike of tats has to do with being timid, it's not. MOST OF THEM ARE HORRIBLY DONE AND CLICHED!!!

[banjarian]

Who the hell said anything about touching you? You're all over the place! Maybe you need your kwn thread.

People keep thinking the dislike of tats has to do with being timid, it's not. MOST OF THEM ARE HORRIBLY DONE AND CLICHED!!!

It was mentioned up-thread that often strangers feel weirdly entitled to touch your skin when it's tattooed. It's something I and my friends have personal experience with.

As for your all-caps rant - you express frustration with generalizations in one sentence, and then in the next sentence, generalize someone else. Think about that. Maybe my reason for having a tattoo is as unique as your reason for not having one? Turn down the judgment, please.

[Shane]

Once I met a man who had a big tattoo on the left side of his neck that said, "Pigs Suck!" Unless he always wore turtle necks while driving (unlikely in Hawaii), I imagine that type of tattoo might not go over real well with any police officers who may, some day, pull him over...

Another time, a Japanese friend and I were waiting in the check out line at WalMart when I noticed a teenage girl in front of us with a big kanji tattooed on the back of her neck. When my friend saw the girl's tattoo, his eyes got real big and he whispered into my ear that the character meant "insane" in Japanese. So, of course, I had to ask the girl about it. She explained that her nickname in English was, "Crazygirl." Apparently the girl had gone to her local tattoo parlor and asked to have a tattoo of the kanji for "crazy." She and the tattoo artist looked it up in a dictionary and then proceeded to tattoo the character they found onto the back of the girl's neck.

My friend explained to me later, that while the kanji the girl chose did mean "crazy," it was not the same nuance as in English when we sometimes refer to a person as "wild and crazy," which connotes more of a feeling of being carefree or maybe fearless. Apparently the character the girl and her tattoo artist chose meant crazy like in the sense of a disease. My Japanese friend recommended to the girl that if she ever decided to visit Japan, she might want to cover the tattoo up by letting her hair down when she went through immigration. He told her that having the kanji for "insane" tattooed on the back of her neck might adversely impact her chances for being let into the country. :)

Personally, I don't have any tattoos and don't have any inclination to ever get one, but I've seen some nice ones that I kind of liked on other people. I have to admit that when I see someone who is completely covered in tattoos I'm turned off by it, but that's just my personal preference.

OP, you should get whatever tattoos make you happy and don't worry too much about what other people think. My only recommendation is if you decide to get a tattoo put onto your body in anything other than your first language, you might want to first run it by a native speaker to make sure you don't unintentionally get something you may regret later.

[BlueHouse]

Then again, despite now being a 6'4", soon to be tattooed powerlifter with a shaved head, for the first ~30 years of my life I was a super skinny, mild-mannered nerd (still am the last two, although I fake extroversion well). I can't deny part of the appeal of getting a sleeve down the road is that I enjoy the idea of subverting that image. Not that I intend to change my personality, I just like pushing the boundaries of people's preconceptions.

You have definitely succeeded.  I misread your username as:  LA Mom. Your description of yourself finally made me read more carefully.  well done.

[human]

Yeah the op says he wants to push the boundaries of others preconceptions but it really seems like it's more about portraying a specific image. You may have had a nerdy skinny guy persona in the past, you seem hung up on it. Now you want impress people with tats and muscles. Just get the tat because you like it not because you want people to think your some bad ass muscle dude . . .

[Dollar Slice]

Yeah the op says he wants to push the boundaries of others preconceptions but it really seems like it's more about portraying a specific image. You may have had a nerdy skinny guy persona in the past, you seem hung up on it. Now you want impress people with tats and muscles. Just get the tat because you like it not because you want people to think your some bad ass muscle dude . . .

Nah. Nerds are out and proud these days. On the way home from work today I saw a guy with a tattoo of the solar system on one leg and the Fibonacci sequence on his arm.

[Sailor Sam]

Yeah the op says he wants to push the boundaries of others preconceptions but it really seems like it's more about portraying a specific image. You may have had a nerdy skinny guy persona in the past, you seem hung up on it. Now you want impress people with tats and muscles. Just get the tat because you like it not because you want people to think your some bad ass muscle dude . . .

Nah. Nerds are out and proud these days. On the way home from work today I saw a guy with a tattoo of the solar system on one leg and the Fibonacci sequence on his arm.

True. I had a mathematical symbol carved into my back. Scarification isn't as vogue as tattoos so it gets some comments when visible, but I didn't do it to stand out. I did it for my own aesthetic.

[human]

That's exactly what the op should have done, I'd have a lot more respect for that than trying to debunk "preconceptions" with a full sleeve.

[Metric Mouse]

Yeah the op says he wants to push the boundaries of others preconceptions but it really seems like it's more about portraying a specific image. You may have had a nerdy skinny guy persona in the past, you seem hung up on it. Now you want impress people with tats and muscles. Just get the tat because you like it not because you want people to think your some bad ass muscle dude . . .

Could it be possible that people that think clothes and paintings and cars and scars and tattoos are only purchased to impress an image for other people are projecting their reasons onto others? Just as some persons who state that those purchases are purely made for their own gratification may be projecting their own actual lack of fucks onto the situation?  Perhaps it could be that one's perception of others is more a reflection of their own insecurities, than it is an accurate reflection of those they are judging?

[human]

The op clearly stated he wants to create a new image for himslef by changing people's preconceptions of himself. I'm not projecting anything. Am I judging? Of course! That's what 3/4 of this site is dedicated too! Judging others for their shitty financial decisions is half the people here revel in.

[Lagom]

The op clearly stated he wants to create a new image for himslef by changing people's preconceptions of himself. I'm not projecting anything. Am I judging? Of course! That's what 3/4 of this site is dedicated too! Judging others for their shitty financial decisions is half the people here revel in.

Uh...? Feel free to offer a quote where I said I was trying to create a new image for myself. Feel free to not come back until you do. I find it pretty interesting how much you (and others) have been projecting on to me this entire thread. Metric Mouse seems to be on to something.

I don't know why I keep bothering to explain what was plainly stated earlier, but what I actually said is that one side effect of getting a tattoo that tickles me is how different my image will probably be to other people than it used to be. I never said I was trying to cultivate that image. And since you obsessed over this particular sentence, I said I like pushing boundaries, not that I was actively looking to do so. I would be perfectly happy for people to be less close minded than many in this thread and see me for who I am: a goofy, frugal geek who happens to enjoy lifting (and hiking, camping, reading, long walks on the beach, video games...) and has a tattoo or two.

Anyway, the tattoo is done and I love it! Was an amazingly positive and fun experience, with the pain being less bothersome than expected. And it looks freaking sweet.

[Lagom]

Then again, despite now being a 6'4", soon to be tattooed powerlifter with a shaved head, for the first ~30 years of my life I was a super skinny, mild-mannered nerd (still am the last two, although I fake extroversion well). I can't deny part of the appeal of getting a sleeve down the road is that I enjoy the idea of subverting that image. Not that I intend to change my personality, I just like pushing the boundaries of people's preconceptions.

You have definitely succeeded.  I misread your username as:  LA Mom. Your description of yourself finally made me read more carefully.  well done.

Ha! Lagom is a Swedish word. Google it and you'll see why I chose it for a username on this site.

[JLee]

I'm sorry but I can't even count the number of people I know without 2 nickels to rub together who are littered with tattoos.  Save the money.

This is relevant...how, exactly?

[Metric Mouse]

Anyway, the tattoo is done and I love it! Was an amazingly positive and fun experience, with the pain being less bothersome than expected. And it looks freaking sweet.

Congrats!

[ambimammular]

Back when I was the saver of the family and my DH was the spender we agreed on him having a tattoo incentive for getting the house 30% paid off. The artist he chose is from Hong Kong (believe me DH did his research; the artist has a 3 year waiting list), so to get the trip over there we agreed on the house being 40% paid off. He'll get his ink August 16 and 17. I'll have to post a picture.

We're both equal savers now, and having a common goal helped that. I feel like we both won in this situation.

For the record he's an academic PhD with tenure and with two tattoos already, one visible. The upcoming one will be a sleeve. If anything I think his tattoos have helped students relate to him. DH is a retired punk, and he also gets a thrill seeing the old staid professoriate get all atwitter when they see his tattoos and stretched 00g earlobes. He said he'd write something tomorrow about his view on being Mustachian and inked.

Here's my DH's response:  My sleeve will be between $2k-$3k. I wasn't Mustachian for my earlier tattoos, but am Mustachian-lite now. (The general public would consider me very frugal, but I probably would be considered a free spender on this forum.) Anyway, the tattoo I'm getting has been in the works for about 8 years, with 3 years of that on a waiting list for my artist. (Joey Pang, she's amazing) In those years, my ideas for the art haven't changed. I'm not going to look back at this as a mistake later.

The tattoo I'm getting depicts the Daoist concept of wu wei, roughly translated as "non action" or "action without action." The philosophy encourages people to find the natural way of things and try to align one's behavior accordingly rather than imposing your will on a situation where it interferes with the natural order. As a natural control freak, I need more of this in my life--particularly when it comes to being a parent. Having this visible tattoo will help me remember my values and be more calm and thoughtful in how I react to situations (especially with our kids).

I think that $3k spent on something that will help me be a better person is well spent. But even if you don't buy it, think of this: would you spend $3k on a vacation that will provide you years of happy memories? If that same money would provide you years of happy moments seeing the art, then what's the difference? The thing about Mustachianism that I find so compelling is the basic idea that you should be thoughtful with your money and make sure that your purchases will bring you happiness. As long as you make that a stringent test that few indulgent purchases can pass, and the tattoo passes it, then it seems that it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do with your money.

[Lagom]

Great perspective, Ambi, thank you (and your husband) for sharing!

Anyway, the tattoo is done and I love it! Was an amazingly positive and fun experience, with the pain being less bothersome than expected. And it looks freaking sweet.

Congrats!

Thanks! I was so relieved when I got there and the design my artist came up with was even better than I expected. Still debating whether I want to post a pic because of my previously stated reasons, and also to annoy human.

[Slee_stack]

Its interesting how folks say that they are sure they won't have any regrets with an ink decision years in the future.

I am certain of ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in my own future (including if I'll even be alive to be able to live on investments I make today). 

Why is ink magically different than anything else on the planet?

I call BS on intimately understanding your future self.

Get a tattoo, but don't pretend you'll absolutely love it in 30 years.  You can't possibly know that.

[lbmustache]

Its interesting how folks say that they are sure they won't have any regrets with an ink decision years in the future.

I am certain of ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in my own future (including if I'll even be alive to be able to live on investments I make today). 

Why is ink magically different than anything else on the planet?

I call BS on intimately understanding your future self.

Get a tattoo, but don't pretend you'll absolutely love it in 30 years.  You can't possibly know that.

I have a few small tattoos and will chime in on this.

I don't think I will LOVE my tattoos in 30 years.

I don't even think they will  look "good" in 10 years.

However, they are a part of me, and remind me of a specific time of life, mindset, etc. I kind of think of them like scars - you may not love them, but you don't beat yourself up over them, and they're just a part of your body that exists.

[Lagom]

Its interesting how folks say that they are sure they won't have any regrets with an ink decision years in the future.

I am certain of ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in my own future (including if I'll even be alive to be able to live on investments I make today). 

Why is ink magically different than anything else on the planet?

I call BS on intimately understanding your future self.

Get a tattoo, but don't pretend you'll absolutely love it in 30 years.  You can't possibly know that.

No one said that they were 100% certain they would never have any regrets (that I noticed, anyway). The sentiment I've seen is that those with tattoos are OK with the possibility of regret, but don't see it happening any time soon. Also, people like you and others in this thread seem to presume that regret = some sort of intolerable existential angst.

First, plenty of studies have shown that a clear majority of people with tattoos don't regret them, even after decades. Second, of those who do regret them, I would wager that most of them are along the lines of "I wouldn't do it again, but I'm still happy with who I am and how my life is going." And most of those people are probably those who got random crap tattooed on them at a young age. It's not like regretting a tattoo means that your whole life becomes miserable as a result.

[banjarian]

I agree; the possibility of future regret doesn't logically need to prevent you from ever getting a tattoo. And even a tattoo that is one day regretted can be worthwhile and fun.

I have a few tattoos; one of them, I have regrets about. I wish the placement was different, the lines are too bold, etc. But overall, my life is not ruined by this tattoo. I still get compliments on this tattoo, on the rare occasion that it's visible. It's still a pretty cool tattoo. And I'm beginning to investigate covering it up with a better one, which I'm looking forward to and I'm actually excited about. Overall, I do have regrets about it, but it's not ruining my life and in fact it has provided me with a lot of happiness and satisfaction already.

We all do things we regret here and there, but not all regrets are catastrophic or outweigh the initial benefit of the thing.

[Kaspian]

I'm sorry but I can't even count the number of people I know without 2 nickels to rub together who are littered with tattoos.  Save the money.

Ersh...  All the guys who hangout downtown here all day bumming change and smokes have literally thousands of dollars of professional work on their arms, neck, back, legs, ...and probably places I don't even want to think about.

[GuitarStv]

I'm sorry but I can't even count the number of people I know without 2 nickels to rub together who are littered with tattoos.  Save the money.

Ersh...  All the guys who hangout downtown here all day bumming change and smokes have literally thousands of dollars of professional work on their arms, neck, back, legs, ...and probably places I don't even want to think about.

I wonder if they regret the ink.

[Slee_stack]

I'm not going to look back at this as a mistake later.

- quoted from an above post.  In general, I just can't understand how anyone could be so sure...of anything...not just tattoos.  People don't get married with expectations of getting divorced for instance.


A huge concern on the 'anti' side is the permanency part of a tattoo.  If tattoos were more easily removed, perhaps a good part of the hate/distaste/complaint could be dismissed.  AFAIK, the only removal method is expensive , painful, and may not even be successful.  I haven't researched lately though.   It's why I asked earlier about what ever happened to soluble ink that was potentially erasable by laser.  At the time, it sounded pretty smart/slick.

People spend money on houses and cars and vacations, and whatever, but most of the time these are things that can be left behind leaving the Regretee with less skin in the game (hawhaw!) so to speak.


Not a liker or hater

[human]

The op clearly stated he wants to create a new image for himslef by changing people's preconceptions of himself. I'm not projecting anything. Am I judging? Of course! That's what 3/4 of this site is dedicated too! Judging others for their shitty financial decisions is half the people here revel in.

Uh...? Feel free to offer a quote where I said I was trying to create a new image for myself. Feel free to not come back until you do. I find it pretty interesting how much you (and others) have been projecting on to me this entire thread. Metric Mouse seems to be on to something.

I don't know why I keep bothering to explain what was plainly stated earlier, but what I actually said is that one side effect of getting a tattoo that tickles me is how different my image will probably be to other people than it used to be. I never said I was trying to cultivate that image. And since you obsessed over this particular sentence, I said I like pushing boundaries, not that I was actively looking to do so. I would be perfectly happy for people to be less close minded than many in this thread and see me for who I am: a goofy, frugal geek who happens to enjoy lifting (and hiking, camping, reading, long walks on the beach, video games...) and has a tattoo or two.

Anyway, the tattoo is done and I love it! Was an amazingly positive and fun experience, with the pain being less bothersome than expected. And it looks freaking sweet.

Here you go (underline added):

Quote from: Lagom on July 02, 2016, 02:21:27 PM
Then again, despite now being a 6'4", soon to be tattooed powerlifter with a shaved head, for the first ~30 years of my life I was a super skinny, mild-mannered nerd (still am the last two, although I fake extroversion well). I can't deny part of the appeal of getting a sleeve down the road is that I enjoy the idea of subverting that image. Not that I intend to change my personality, I just like pushing the boundaries of people's preconceptions.

[Lagom]

The op clearly stated he wants to create a new image for himslef by changing people's preconceptions of himself. I'm not projecting anything. Am I judging? Of course! That's what 3/4 of this site is dedicated too! Judging others for their shitty financial decisions is half the people here revel in.

Uh...? Feel free to offer a quote where I said I was trying to create a new image for myself. Feel free to not come back until you do. I find it pretty interesting how much you (and others) have been projecting on to me this entire thread. Metric Mouse seems to be on to something.

I don't know why I keep bothering to explain what was plainly stated earlier, but what I actually said is that one side effect of getting a tattoo that tickles me is how different my image will probably be to other people than it used to be. I never said I was trying to cultivate that image. And since you obsessed over this particular sentence, I said I like pushing boundaries, not that I was actively looking to do so. I would be perfectly happy for people to be less close minded than many in this thread and see me for who I am: a goofy, frugal geek who happens to enjoy lifting (and hiking, camping, reading, long walks on the beach, video games...) and has a tattoo or two.

Anyway, the tattoo is done and I love it! Was an amazingly positive and fun experience, with the pain being less bothersome than expected. And it looks freaking sweet.

Here you go (underline added):

Quote from: Lagom on July 02, 2016, 02:21:27 PM
Then again, despite now being a 6'4", soon to be tattooed powerlifter with a shaved head, for the first ~30 years of my life I was a super skinny, mild-mannered nerd (still am the last two, although I fake extroversion well). I can't deny part of the appeal of getting a sleeve down the road is that I enjoy the idea of subverting that image. Not that I intend to change my personality, I just like pushing the boundaries of people's preconceptions.

o.O

So you literally didn't read what I wrote. Not that I'm surprised. I'm gonna go ahead and close this chapter in our relationship now. It's been real.

[Lagom]

A huge concern on the 'anti' side is the permanency part of a tattoo.  If tattoos were more easily removed, perhaps a good part of the hate/distaste/complaint could be dismissed.  AFAIK, the only removal method is expensive , painful, and may not even be successful.  I haven't researched lately though.   It's why I asked earlier about what ever happened to soluble ink that was potentially erasable by laser.  At the time, it sounded pretty smart/slick.

I appreciate the perspective but this has already been addressed by myself and others with tattoos in the posts above. Tldr: we are OK with the possibility of regret and also, regret =/= some kind of intolerable angst, so who cares if we do come to regret it when we've derrived so much value in the meantime? You can read the earlier posts if you want more details on our thoughts.

[Eric]

Great perspective, Ambi, thank you (and your husband) for sharing!

Anyway, the tattoo is done and I love it! Was an amazingly positive and fun experience, with the pain being less bothersome than expected. And it looks freaking sweet.

Congrats!

Thanks! I was so relieved when I got there and the design my artist came up with was even better than I expected. Still debating whether I want to post a pic because of my previously stated reasons, and also to annoy human.

This has been a very intriguing thread.  I am practically dying with anticipation to see what you got. (pun intended)  I'd settle for a PM if you're willing.  :)

I personally do not have any ink, but after seeing some of the negative reactions in this thread, I sort of want something big and visible now.  If only to avoid accidentally finding myself in a situation where I'm wasting time or energy talking to one of these types of people.  The meaning of mine could be "drives away closed minded people". My wife would love the idea.  She has a few and has been trying to get me to go for one for years.   I'm going to start looking into it.

[Metric Mouse]

Back when I was the saver of the family and my DH was the spender we agreed on him having a tattoo incentive for getting the house 30% paid off. The artist he chose is from Hong Kong (believe me DH did his research; the artist has a 3 year waiting list), so to get the trip over there we agreed on the house being 40% paid off. He'll get his ink August 16 and 17. I'll have to post a picture.

We're both equal savers now, and having a common goal helped that. I feel like we both won in this situation.

For the record he's an academic PhD with tenure and with two tattoos already, one visible. The upcoming one will be a sleeve. If anything I think his tattoos have helped students relate to him. DH is a retired punk, and he also gets a thrill seeing the old staid professoriate get all atwitter when they see his tattoos and stretched 00g earlobes. He said he'd write something tomorrow about his view on being Mustachian and inked.

Here's my DH's response:  My sleeve will be between $2k-$3k. I wasn't Mustachian for my earlier tattoos, but am Mustachian-lite now. (The general public would consider me very frugal, but I probably would be considered a free spender on this forum.) Anyway, the tattoo I'm getting has been in the works for about 8 years, with 3 years of that on a waiting list for my artist. (Joey Pang, she's amazing) In those years, my ideas for the art haven't changed. I'm not going to look back at this as a mistake later.

The tattoo I'm getting depicts the Daoist concept of wu wei, roughly translated as "non action" or "action without action." The philosophy encourages people to find the natural way of things and try to align one's behavior accordingly rather than imposing your will on a situation where it interferes with the natural order. As a natural control freak, I need more of this in my life--particularly when it comes to being a parent. Having this visible tattoo will help me remember my values and be more calm and thoughtful in how I react to situations (especially with our kids).

I think that $3k spent on something that will help me be a better person is well spent. But even if you don't buy it, think of this: would you spend $3k on a vacation that will provide you years of happy memories? If that same money would provide you years of happy moments seeing the art, then what's the difference? The thing about Mustachianism that I find so compelling is the basic idea that you should be thoughtful with your money and make sure that your purchases will bring you happiness. As long as you make that a stringent test that few indulgent purchases can pass, and the tattoo passes it, then it seems that it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do with your money.

Not my favorite artist, but I would imagine there are few people would call Joey Pang's work anything but art.

[human]

Great perspective, Ambi, thank you (and your husband) for sharing!

Anyway, the tattoo is done and I love it! Was an amazingly positive and fun experience, with the pain being less bothersome than expected. And it looks freaking sweet.

Congrats!

Thanks! I was so relieved when I got there and the design my artist came up with was even better than I expected. Still debating whether I want to post a pic because of my previously stated reasons, and also to annoy human.

You should, it might actually be ok, I still think it's ok. I'm still baffled about your claim that the tattoo is about image but not about image but whatevs.

[Lagom]

Meh, OK why not...

Here are some pics, friends. I never meant this thread to be all about my specific tattoo, but I get that I set myself up for this (because I secretly wanted the attention, hahahaha, suckers!). It's a pretty big piece that wraps around my arm, so we took a couple angles from a cell phone cam. Not ideal lighting but a fair enough representation. The tattoo was almost exactly 24 hours old at the time these were taken. Any small blemishes you see are bits of ink or skin that will fall off as it heals. Make what you will of my taste and/or choice to post these. I love it, but it's OK if you don't! On a side note, while this thread got a bit heated, I found it pretty interesting overall, so thanks to those who actually tried to contribute something productive.







And since I know this will be a follow-up question, here is the short version of how this particular tattoo came to be/what it means: first, after ~10 years of consideration I committed to getting a tattoo (for the reasons stated earlier in this thread, which is the main thing it "symbolizes") and knew I wanted it to be on my upper left arm. I spent a loooong time researching ideas, stalking artists on instagram, etc., and settled on a traditional/neotraditional girl head as a general concept, with a particular aesthetic in mind. Went through a few iterations in my head and through a Pinterest board before I decided to go with the Valkyrie/raven. There is some symbolism behind that choice, but it came late in the process.  I'm 50% Swedish, so it's a slight nod to that heritage, and more importantly, I mean for it in part to honor the many kickass women I've been lucky to have in my life.

I could make some BS up about what the raven means (lots of after the fact ideas came to mind), but really that one was 100% due to historical context (Valkyries and ravens are closely linked in the mythology) and because I thought it would look cool. The artist was Herb Auerbach at California Electric in Soquel, CA (near Santa Cruz). Really nice guy, talented artist, and consummate professional.

So there you have it! Yay tattoos!!!!

[human]

The second photo is too dark! get a brighter one. At first blush it looks ok, but I more impressed by people who know what inspires them and then get the tattoo than vice versa. The best part of the tattoo is the helmet. Fix the raven wings/neckline?, that's not the primary focus but when you look at it they seem proportionally too small with wavy weird lines. I think they should wrap around the arm or something. It would be difficult because you don't want them to be completely black. Maybe think on that of course (or ignore my ass since I'm a stranger on the internets).

they look pretty well healed up, I thought it took a while longer . . .

I'm just glad you didn't get a sun around the navel or barbed wire.

edit: and I mean the lower "wings" not the ones on the helmet, those look pretty good.

[Eric]

Wow, that's a quite a starter tattoo!  I guess I was expecting something, I don't know, smaller?  You went for it!  It's pretty cool.  Thanks for sharing.

[Metric Mouse]

Wow. That is fantastic! Good work.

[Lagom]

Wow. That is fantastic! Good work.

Thanks! Very pleased :)

Wow, that's a quite a starter tattoo!  I guess I was expecting something, I don't know, smaller?  You went for it!  It's pretty cool.  Thanks for sharing.

Ha, I know right? I guess I figured go big or go home! Mostly, I just decided to trust the artist and let him tell me what he thought would look best. I don't expect everyone here to be down with the size and/or style, but it's as good as I could have hoped for, personally. My only slight regret is that it goes a bit farther down my arm than I thought it would, which may force me to wear medical tape over the bottom, or something, if I want to wear short sleeves in certain contexts. Not a big deal though, and well worth the minor inconvenience given how happy I am overall with the results.

The second photo is too dark! get a brighter one. At first blush it looks ok, but I more impressed by people who know what inspires them and then get the tattoo than vice versa. The best part of the tattoo is the helmet. Fix the raven wings/neckline?, that's not the primary focus but when you look at it they seem proportionally too small with wavy weird lines. I think they should wrap around the arm or something. It would be difficult because you don't want them to be completely black. Maybe think on that of course (or ignore my ass since I'm a stranger on the internets).

they look pretty well healed up, I thought it took a while longer . . .

I'm just glad you didn't get a sun around the navel or barbed wire.

edit: and I mean the lower "wings" not the ones on the helmet, those look pretty good.

Thanks for the...advice? Glad you (almost) approve. I'm too lazy to retake the second photo, but I figured I had to share something after all the buildup. I will note that the raven's wings are made from strands of her hair, which was an intentional artistic choice, hence the "small wavy lines." Like most tattoos, it looks even better in person. I think the whole thing would come together better still if it were flanked by a couple other pieces ;)

I'm surprised how fast it seems to be healing as well, but I got out of the chair literally 24.5 hours before these pics were taken.That said, it's still fairly sore and there is more goop that needs to be rinsed off than it looks like in the pic. I am still babying it quite a bit at the moment. I figured another 2-3 days minimum before I can switch to a regular moisturizer and be a bit less paranoid about infection.

[Shane]

Thanks for sharing the photos of your new tattoo. It's not something I would choose to have on my arm for the rest of my life, but it looks good on you. :)

Would you mind if I asked how much your tattoo cost? I really have no idea, was it $hundreds? $thousands?

Enjoy! 

[Lagom]

Thanks for sharing the photos of your new tattoo. It's not something I would choose to have on my arm for the rest of my life, but it looks good on you. :)

Would you mind if I asked how much your tattoo cost? I really have no idea, was it $hundreds? $thousands?

Enjoy!

Fair enough, and thanks :)

This one ended up costing about $650 including the tip. Could have been cheaper but I tipped generously because he worked faster than he had quoted, made the experience more fun than I expected, and I was very happy with the result.

[PFHC]

Love it, Lagom!

[Shane]

Thanks for sharing the photos of your new tattoo. It's not something I would choose to have on my arm for the rest of my life, but it looks good on you. :)

Would you mind if I asked how much your tattoo cost? I really have no idea, was it $hundreds? $thousands?

Enjoy!

Fair enough, and thanks :)

This one ended up costing about $650 including the tip. Could have been cheaper but I tipped generously because he worked faster than he had quoted, made the experience more fun than I expected, and I was very happy with the result.

Wow, that's cheaper than I expected. How many hours did it take him to finish?

[Lagom]

Thanks for sharing the photos of your new tattoo. It's not something I would choose to have on my arm for the rest of my life, but it looks good on you. :)

Would you mind if I asked how much your tattoo cost? I really have no idea, was it $hundreds? $thousands?

Enjoy!

Fair enough, and thanks :)

This one ended up costing about $650 including the tip. Could have been cheaper but I tipped generously because he worked faster than he had quoted, made the experience more fun than I expected, and I was very happy with the result.

Wow, that's cheaper than I expected. How many hours did it take him to finish?

I think it was about 3.25 hours of time tattooing me when he originally quoted 4. The overall process took around 5 hours since he had to redraw parts of it to better fit the contours of my arm, take a couple breaks, etc. The rate was $160/hour for actual tattoo time, plus tip. As far as my research could tell, that's actually a bit low relative to other CA artists with similar popularity, who seem to trend closer to $200/hour. Regardless, I didn't price shop at all (this seems like a stupid thing to do that with). I just liked his work better than the $200/hour guys in my area. It's not hard to find tattooers that charge more like $100/hour (or below!) but this is definitely one of those get what you pay for industries.

[Shane]

Thanks for sharing the photos of your new tattoo. It's not something I would choose to have on my arm for the rest of my life, but it looks good on you. :)

Would you mind if I asked how much your tattoo cost? I really have no idea, was it $hundreds? $thousands?

Enjoy!

Fair enough, and thanks :)

This one ended up costing about $650 including the tip. Could have been cheaper but I tipped generously because he worked faster than he had quoted, made the experience more fun than I expected, and I was very happy with the result.

Wow, that's cheaper than I expected. How many hours did it take him to finish?

I think it was about 3.25 hours of time tattooing me when he originally quoted 4. The overall process took around 5 hours since he had to redraw parts of it to better fit the contours of my arm, take a couple breaks, etc. The rate was $160/hour for actual tattoo time, plus tip. As far as my research could tell, that's actually a bit low relative to other CA artists with similar popularity, who seem to trend closer to $200/hour. Regardless, I didn't price shop at all (this seems like a stupid thing to do that with). I just liked his work better than the $200/hour guys in my area. It's not hard to find tattooers that charge more like $100/hour (or below!) but this is definitely one of those get what you pay for industries.

Given the quality of the work, $160/hr or even $200/hour seems like a bargain to me, especially since it didn't take him very many hours to complete the tattoo.

[Lagom]

Given the quality of the work, $160/hr or even $200/hour seems like a bargain to me, especially since it didn't take him very many hours to complete the tattoo.

Yeah, he worked fast. Even he was surprised at how quick it went, since I imagine after years of experience you get pretty good at estimating time. I would like to think it's because I sat well (e.g. barely twitched, never asked for a break unless he wanted one, etc.).

And I agree about it being a bargain. Sure, getting a full sleeve will run a couple thousand, but compared to art you hang on your wall (for example), I think that's a totally fair price. From what I can infer about tattooing, it's a unique challenge creating art that not only looks good, but also fits the contours of a human body. Drawing something that holds up from various angles on an irregularly curved surface is a whole level above sketching something out on a piece of paper. I can't believe what these guys can do, honestly. I find it very impressive, even from the "average" tattooers.

[lifejoy]

Incredible tattoo, I love it!

When I got my arms tattooed my parents were very concerned for me. Well, I got two degrees, a well-paying job, and a successfully-employed husband. Woohoo! Didn't hold me back in the slightest. I am sure it will be the same for you :)

[ambimammular]

Its interesting how folks say that they are sure they won't have any regrets with an ink decision years in the future.

I am certain of ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in my own future (including if I'll even be alive to be able to live on investments I make today). 

Why is ink magically different than anything else on the planet?

I call BS on intimately understanding your future self.

Get a tattoo, but don't pretend you'll absolutely love it in 30 years.  You can't possibly know that.

Here is DH's response:

I have a 20-year-old tattoo of a cross from when I was an evangelical Christian. Making matters worse, the application wasn't very good. I don't like the tattoo very much, and I certainly don't "absolutely love it." (Which, by the way, is an entirely different standard than "not regretting it.") But even so, I'm a strident atheist now and I don't regret it at all. My tattoos tell the story of important parts of my life, and that tattoo is a representation of who I was 20 years ago. There is nothing "magically different" about ink that makes it beyond regret, but given my rationale for all of my tattoos, regret isn't even a relevant feeling. It either reflected me at that time or it didn't. Whether I like the tattoo in 30 years is a completely different question for me.

I find it odd that because you live a life of uncertainty you think everyone must. I'm not going to get into my life philosophy on this board, but despite the fact that I've made some idiotic decisions, I sincerely can't think of a decision I've made since the age of 10 or so that I truly regret. Not one. I look back on stupid decisions as learning opportunities and think that regretting past choices is a waste of time. I've been that way since I was a teenager. So I guess that if you want to get all epistemological about it, sure, I can't really know what I may regret in the future. But I can safely say that it would be the only regret of my life so far, so I'm pretty sure I won't regret this tattoo.

PS: Lagom, I love the tattoo! Great art, and a seriously good deal.

[Lagom]

Thanks Lifejoy! I already have an awesome wife, a kid and a half (she's due on Halloween!), and a great career, so I made it easy on myself from that angle :)

@ambimammular, I'm digging your husband's perspective. He makes an outstanding point, too. I have made many mistakes in my life, but I love who I am and how my life is going, so why would I regret any of the decisions that got me here? Even looking back at the times I wasn't happy, I may have temporarily regretted something that precipitated that feeling, but I don't regret any of those things now. With that in mind, it's quite rational to assume this won't be the first exception.

I get that it's scary to permanently alter your appearance. I VERY recently grappled with that feeling, after all. I even had a few moments of...mourning, for lack of a better word after the tattoo was done, not because I didn't like it, but because I realized that I would never look the same as I had for the previous 33 years. It was a trippy feeling, but an ephemeral one. This is what I look like now, and it looks badass, as far as I'm concerned. If one day I change my mind, oh well. My awesome life will continue to be awesome. Onward and upward!

[Letj]

If you're planning on doing any traveling, you should be aware that in many parts of the world tattoos are strongly associated with gang membership and could cause you problems. Really only an issue if a) the tattoos are easily visible and b) if you intend to travel to such places.

If you ever intend to work again, even part time, be aware that visible tattoos can still cause you issues in getting hired, especially outside of north america.

I don't have strong opinions either way. Maybe neither of those things are relevant to you. Something to think about, anyways.

In fact, in most parts of the world, you would receive heavy scrutiny and discrimination because you will be associated with hardened criminals, gangs and the worst in society. When I travelled on vacation last year, I saw the immigration officer pulled aside a young American traveler covered in tattoos and refused him entry. He was classified as undesirable.  Stay clear of any country except the USA and Western Europe.

[ambimammular]

If you're planning on doing any traveling, you should be aware that in many parts of the world tattoos are strongly associated with gang membership and could cause you problems. Really only an issue if a) the tattoos are easily visible and b) if you intend to travel to such places.

If you ever intend to work again, even part time, be aware that visible tattoos can still cause you issues in getting hired, especially outside of north america.

I don't have strong opinions either way. Maybe neither of those things are relevant to you. Something to think about, anyways.

In fact, in most parts of the world, you would receive heavy scrutiny and discrimination because you will be associated with hardened criminals, gangs and the worst in society. When I travelled on vacation last year, I saw the immigration officer pulled aside a young American traveler covered in tattoos and refused him entry. He was classified as undesirable.  Stay clear of any country except the USA and Western Europe.

DH again:

I had no problem with a large tattoo on my forearm in either China or Thailand. A good friend of mine has traveled the world (even in strict countries like Singapore and Indonesia) with forearm tattoos. It's true that if you want to go into a Japanese bath house, you might be denied entry, and a visible tattoo of some religious symbols might get you kicked out of religious sites, but that's about it.