Author Topic: Want a 3-Day Workweek? Study Suggests It's Ideal for People Over 40 Years Old  (Read 3587 times)

FireAnt

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Ignore that it's People, but this supports FIRE, specifically semi-FIRE. This is exactly what I want to do once I'm 40-45 years old :)

https://people.com/human-interest/3-day-workweek-study/

I did find a similar article from 3 years ago from a more reputable source. Same study:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/workers-over-40-perform-best-with-three-day-week-25-hours-melbourne-institute-study-a6988921.html

Slow2FIRE

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Confirmation bias?

happy

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I knew there was a reason I worked 3 days a week from age 37 on.

Parizade

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I'd prefer full RE to semi RE myself.

Me too, a 3-day work week sounds like waaaay too much

Linea_Norway

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My MIL used to work 3 days a week for many years, before she retired at 50. She told me that working 3 days a week is the sweet spot for working. When you work 4 days, you can still be tempted/expected to work a full week for less payment. But when working 3 days, everybody knows you can't do a full week's work.

I don't think having children and parents in need are a requirements for stress. I have been stressed out severely, especially last year. I don't have children, but I had too much responsibilities and too many performing tasks at work, in combination with buying in a legal issue with the previous owner of our house, and lots of issues in the board for the private road, which I was the board leader for, combined with DH's health issues and DH's soul crushing working issues.

Even now, when a part of these issues have been resolved and my life should be much less stressful, I still have high blood pressure. I think I am just a person who is stressing myself up by getting upset about things. So part of it is stress from within, caused by my personality, although it can be made so much worse by actual stress from the outside.

Linea_Norway

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A co-worker and I also recently discussed at work that we who are older get a lot better paid than young people right from school. But the young people seem to have a lot more energy. We who are older don't have so much energy left to take up many different tasks at work. Maximum 2 things at the time for us.

The article also mentions that the official pension age get higher and higher. I think a government doesn't care about people have some of their good years left to retire. If you are healthy enough to travel and have a great time, you can probably work and pay taxes. Therefore they set the pension time up. As soon as you don't work anymore, you become expensive for society and there is no incentive for governments to let you grow very old.

happy

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My MIL used to work 3 days a week for many years, before she retired at 50. She told me that working 3 days a week is the sweet spot for working. When you work 4 days, you can still be tempted/expected to work a full week for less payment. But when working 3 days, everybody knows you can't do a full week's work.

I don't think having children and parents in need are a requirements for stress. I have been stressed out severely, especially last year. I don't have children, but I had too much responsibilities and too many performing tasks at work, in combination with buying in a legal issue with the previous owner of our house, and lots of issues in the board for the private road, which I was the board leader for, combined with DH's health issues and DH's soul crushing working issues.

Even now, when a part of these issues have been resolved and my life should be much less stressful, I still have high blood pressure. I think I am just a person who is stressing myself up by getting upset about things. So part of it is stress from within, caused by my personality, although it can be made so much worse by actual stress from the outside.

Yup. 3 days a week was my sweet spot too. 4 days is too much like full-time, and 2 days is not enough momentum.

happy

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A co-worker and I also recently discussed at work that we who are older get a lot better paid than young people right from school. But the young people seem to have a lot more energy. We who are older don't have so much energy left to take up many different tasks at work.

True. But in my field at least, youthful energy cannot replace experience.

Metalcat

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I dropped to 3 days a week at 34.
Full time feels uncivilized now.

Parizade

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A co-worker and I also recently discussed at work that we who are older get a lot better paid than young people right from school. But the young people seem to have a lot more energy. We who are older don't have so much energy left to take up many different tasks at work.

True. But in my field at least, youthful energy cannot replace experience.

Same here, but I realize I am very fortunate to be in such a field. I've seen friends get pushed out of jobs because they couldn't compete with younger workers, but they are still not eligible for disability or other social security. Very sad!

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This is interesting. I’ve been debating a lot recently whether I should be head down and aiming straight for FIRE or whether I should FART instead (Financial Accomplishment Reduce Time. My apologies, I never have the best of luck coming up with acronyms.) My definition of this was hitting 25x expenses and then going part time I.e. 25x was enough of a financial accomplishment, but reducing to a three day week at this point would be a good way of getting towards a 3-3.5% WR (I’m a bit cautious).

Other advantages were:

1. Easier transition to RE. Not saving money would be an adjustment in itself but not drawing on the stache either would help here.

2. Fewer years of full time work needed on the journey to RE. A much better work life balance would be achieved.

3. More years of qualification towards the state pension (I’m in the UK).

4. I’m single so part time work would help maintain a social outlet.

My work place environment is deteriorating and I’m conscious of my stress levels increasing. I’m 42 so am becoming more and more conscious of putting health first.

This has made me feel less confident in my ability to blast straight for FIRE, and I feel in the coming years I will find it harder to suppress the urge to FART. My worry is that in a 2008 type situation I regret not carrying on full time and achieving more safety with my numbers while I could. I can imagine going from part time to full time would be difficult and in times of turmoil may be near on impossible for a bit.

I guess an important consideration for going to something like a three day week is whether that salary is less than, equal to or exceeds expenses. In the situation where it exceeds expenses I wonder if I am being to cautious in not going part time until I hit 25x expenses I.e would 20x be sufficient?

For those of you that have FARTed (again my apologies) to a three day week, at what point in your FIRE journey/stache level did you feel confident enough to do this?


happy

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I'm not the norm on this board but I FARTed early (37 yrs) and retired relatively late (60 years), mainly because I had not come across FIRE until I was 52 or so, but I had some of the desires/concepts that led me to FART early.  As a long term downshifter, anytime is a good time to FART - it just depends on how long you want to keep on working part-time for, what your SWR is , current stash, current wage, savings rate  etc etc. Trade-offs are so individual.

In my case I worked in a high paid area, which allowed me to FART and still pull in an above average full-time wage and get to >60% savings rate ( once I moustached). Working 3 days a week also increased my longevity in the area...I would not have survived working full-time much longer either physically or mentally.

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Hi happy. Wow that’s really interesting, thanks for replying. You achieved a really good work life balance there for many years. I appreciate there are many individual variables at play here. Earning an above average full time wage but only working part time would be pretty much a dream situation really. Congratulations on getting yourself in that position.

havregryn

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I am 35, I just switched to 2.5 day workweek (20h per week)
I don't ever want to go back.
I can't believe I didn't do this sooner.
I have small kids and my income loss is not that substantial after accounting for some of the childcare savings and yes, as someone has already said, looking back, full time feels almost barbaric.


CheapScholar

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I love this.  I basically ended up FARTing last year at 37.  I have a salary job but it’s not all that demanding.  I can easily stay home one day a week and pretty much come and go as I please.  I can get the work done in 25 hours easily.  I’ll be set to FIRE at 44 but if the job is still fun I’ll just keep on FARTing until I’m an old fart.

Metalcat

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It's called CoastFI if you save a bunch and then cut back to only making about what you need to live and letting the Stache grow in the meantime.

Me, I dropped to part time while I was still in mortgage sized debt.

Whether or not it's a good idea is completely individual.
For me, I was hating my work full time and loving it very part time, so the choice was obvious.

I actually wanted to work in my field as long as possible, so doing is sustainably was so much smarter than overdoing it and burning out quickly.

I'm personally not willing to waste a single year of my life living in a way that doesn't make me happy, so grinding and FIREing are not options for me.

It's deeply personal, but if it's right for you, it's a brilliant option.

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Hi havregryn. That sounds ideal with small kids. I like the way the childcare costs saved offsets the reduced salary. I have friends at work with small kids and have gone part time. On the odd occasion they have had to work a full time week they find it brutal. I completely understand where you are coming from. Congratulations on the 2.5 day week.

Hi CheapScholar. That sounds ideal, a fun job that you enjoy and only 7 years to FIRE.

Hi Malkynn. Yes the scenario where you want to work in your field for as long as possible seems perfect for part time work. A good work life balance and less chance of getting burned out. I understand where you are coming from in not wanting to grind in a job.

I’m not ready yet but it’s definitely something I will continue to put some serious thought into and it’s interesting seeing how many are making it work, in different circumstances and situations.

Metalcat

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Hi Malkynn. Yes the scenario where you want to work in your field for as long as possible seems perfect for part time work. A good work life balance and less chance of getting burned out. I understand where you are coming from in not wanting to grind in a job.

I'm also in a career where I actually make more per hour if I work less, and I'm in such a high tax bracket that I'm penalized for making more.

Overall, I make more, enjoy it more, and generate more tax sheltered space over time to store my 'stache in.

I went to school for over a decade to do this. Grinding for a brutal 10 years to then quit and stop doing what I sacrificed so much to be able to do just seems ridiculous, especially after I already did that for 10 years in school.

Also, I still make a lot, and could still afford to retire by 50.

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Yes all really good reasons to work part time. It’s great you will be able to hit FI at still a young age but yet can work for as long as you want. I wish I had a life’s calling in terms of my career but it’s great the sacrifices you have made have got you into such a wonderful position.

I’m in a position where my job will be automated. I’m guessing I have ten years but that’s just a guess. I suffer from social anxiety and panic attacks. I fully acknowledge my best working years are now but are diminishing as every year passes. My parents are older relative to parents of my age group and I want to be able to care for them as much as possible. So there are a few reasons why I feel to some extent I’m in a race to free myself from full time work.

My job was actually great for many years, but a serious reorganisation, the culling of a wonderful long term boss, and a generally diminishing culture and working environment has meant I am in grind mode for a bit.

FireAnt

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This is interesting. I’ve been debating a lot recently whether I should be head down and aiming straight for FIRE or whether I should FART instead (Financial Accomplishment Reduce Time. My apologies, I never have the best of luck coming up with acronyms.) My definition of this was hitting 25x expenses and then going part time I.e. 25x was enough of a financial accomplishment, but reducing to a three day week at this point would be a good way of getting towards a 3-3.5% WR (I’m a bit cautious).

This is exactly what we're doing as well. My husband is very apprehensive about 4%, and thinks we should do 3%. I'd like to work in some capacity, so part time plus 3% (or less depending on income flow) is perfect for us.

FireAnt

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It's called CoastFI if you save a bunch and then cut back to only making about what you need to live and letting the Stache grow in the meantime.

Ah, good to know! I've also seen semi-FIRE and barista-FIRE thrown around. I guess I don't know the differences between these terms.

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Yeah I like that plan FireAnt. I’m sure part time work will be part of my future. It’s having sufficient safety first and needing the right opportunity to arise to make it happen in the best way. For anyone that likes to work in some capacity it’s absolutely ideal.

Somehow I’ve missed all of those terms so will continue to use my own one, but perhaps just keep it to my journal :-)

scantee

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When my kids were little I went a couple years at three days week, then a couple more years at four days. Four days is certainly nice, but I concur with others that three days really feels altogether different...and better.

I’m aiming to take some time off work, 6 to 12 months, starting in the beginning of 2021. Then I’d like to go back to work on a three day a week schedule. Consulting of some kind would be a great fit for me, but it’s hard to know how to get started. Would love to hear the stories of anyone who was able to make a transition like that.

Metalcat

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It's called CoastFI if you save a bunch and then cut back to only making about what you need to live and letting the Stache grow in the meantime.

Ah, good to know! I've also seen semi-FIRE and barista-FIRE thrown around. I guess I don't know the differences between these terms.

There is no real difference.
I just don't use the term Barista fire because my part time work is as far from working in a coffee shop as possible, and I find that it implies menial work as opposed to casual professional work.

SemiFIRE fits as well, but for some reason makes me think of shorter timelines, when some people might actually coast longer than they ever worked full time.

For me, once I realized that left alone, the Stache can do most of the heavy lifting itself in terms of growth, I found that coasting not only drastically reduced the amount I needed to save, but also drastically reduced the number of years that I need my stache to last.

It also keeps me partially in the game a lot longer, which sustains my skills/network and makes re-entry into the workforce a lot easier if it ever comes to that.

It basically totally neutralizes every significant risk associated with FIRE and the only trade off is that I keep doing work that I enjoy.

In addition, because I've started working this way so early on, i have a lot of time available to generate and build the kind of opportunities that allow me to do this on my own terms.

I'm not going from being a good donkey to reinventing the wheel of work style in my industry. I have years of working this way, proving my value, and creating demand for the kind of work I want to do on my own terms.

I'm looking at a major career change right now, and I can do that because I've carefully cultivated exactly the kind of career I want. When anyone thinks of me for a contract, they know in advance that I'm only available part time and that I will demand flexibility. They're already okay with it by the time they contact me just to talk.

What you do today shapes what tomorrow looks like.

Metalcat

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When my kids were little I went a couple years at three days week, then a couple more years at four days. Four days is certainly nice, but I concur with others that three days really feels altogether different...and better.

I’m aiming to take some time off work, 6 to 12 months, starting in the beginning of 2021. Then I’d like to go back to work on a three day a week schedule. Consulting of some kind would be a great fit for me, but it’s hard to know how to get started. Would love to hear the stories of anyone who was able to make a transition like that.

You just start.

They key for me is to not try an recreate a certain income through consulting. For me it's to provide as much value as possible and prove that my terms don't compromise that.

mm1970

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Okay, google failed me.

FARTing?

I'm 48, and I think this would be glorious.  Yes, some of the difficulty in my life is stress with job, husband, and kids.  But also...I can feel my own cognitive decline.  I'm happier if I can focus on fewer things and do them well.  When the kids were smaller, I had two periods of working PT, but not 3 days a week (5 days, just shorter days).  I had time to regroup, cook, rest, etc.

I also work with a lot of older people (I've been here 10 years, and we've all gotten older!)  The cognitive decline is something that we joke about, but in the end, it's not a laughing matter.  I'm probably "middle" aged for the company, so half of my coworkers are over 50 (approximately).  Those over 60 seem to have even more cognitive decline.  But they are still very very bright and capable - we just ruin everyone by giving them the workload of a 25 year old - pushing people till they fail, that's our motto!

Also it's just harder to recover from things at our age.  I'm fit, healthy, and I get enough sleep (thanks only to Unisom). Illnesses and injuries are harder to get over.

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Haha sorry mm1970. Google won’t help you there. Some months back I awoke in the middle of the night and had a vision that rather than have to work full time for ages to get to a 3-3.5% WR, I could get to 25x expenses and then go part time. I thought to myself that’s not really FIRE but more a Financial Accomplishment that allows me to Reduce the Time spent working full time. I scribbled this down on a piece of paper and in the morning a ridiculous acronym was staring back at me.

I agree with what you are saying regarding health and our cognitive powers. The conventional 5 day week is not really particularly well designed with human beings in mind. I like the thought of working fewer hours but being super productive and having enough time to look after myself properly outside of work.

scantee

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When my kids were little I went a couple years at three days week, then a couple more years at four days. Four days is certainly nice, but I concur with others that three days really feels altogether different...and better.

I’m aiming to take some time off work, 6 to 12 months, starting in the beginning of 2021. Then I’d like to go back to work on a three day a week schedule. Consulting of some kind would be a great fit for me, but it’s hard to know how to get started. Would love to hear the stories of anyone who was able to make a transition like that.



You just start.

They key for me is to not try an recreate a certain income through consulting. For me it's to provide as much value as possible and prove that my terms don't compromise that.

I’m looking for the details, the nitty-gritty. Did you mine existing connections to get your first clients? Market yourself when no connections exist? If so, how? Do you partner with anyone?

That sort of thing. I’m about two years out from this change, which seems like a long time but it’s really not! I feel like I want to get going NOW on making connections and thinking through my business model.

Metalcat

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When my kids were little I went a couple years at three days week, then a couple more years at four days. Four days is certainly nice, but I concur with others that three days really feels altogether different...and better.

I’m aiming to take some time off work, 6 to 12 months, starting in the beginning of 2021. Then I’d like to go back to work on a three day a week schedule. Consulting of some kind would be a great fit for me, but it’s hard to know how to get started. Would love to hear the stories of anyone who was able to make a transition like that.



You just start.

They key for me is to not try an recreate a certain income through consulting. For me it's to provide as much value as possible and prove that my terms don't compromise that.

I’m looking for the details, the nitty-gritty. Did you mine existing connections to get your first clients? Market yourself when no connections exist? If so, how? Do you partner with anyone?

That sort of thing. I’m about two years out from this change, which seems like a long time but it’s really not! I feel like I want to get going NOW on making connections and thinking through my business model.

"Consulting" is such a broad term, me telling you what I did wouldn't have any relevance to you because I'm in very particular industries, I work 3 jobs, and one only exists because someone offered to pay me for what I was already doing.

You probably want to seek out someone who consults in your industry to see what the industry norms are.
There is no one else doing what I'm doing, so I just make it up as I go along.

Overall though, I network constantly, make it known that I'm always seeking out new and interesting projects, connect a lot of people, and make myself as useful as possible.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!