Author Topic: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation  (Read 32915 times)

Imma

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #200 on: January 18, 2018, 03:23:57 AM »

Lastly “I’ll work for free for a year” is a powerful phrase that can make magic happen.
Your FIRE life is/would be very different from mine (and probably an introverts version of hell lol) but I agree there are many things one can do in FIRE to improve your likelihood of getting a job someday if you ever need one asap.

[/quote]

As an introvert, I plan to retire to a homestead-type of situation. I come from a long line of small time farmers and my relatives never needed a lot of actual money, because they had few bills (they owned their farms outright). You can make and grow a lot yourself if you want to, at a cost of next to nothing, and you can scrimp and save and make do. I wouldn't mind at all if that meant I'd never have to step into an office again. If my retirement plan works out and I can own a small farm outright and have reached my target stash, I think I can easily go back to withdrawing 2% for a couple of years.

rosarugosa

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #201 on: January 18, 2018, 04:43:16 AM »
I actually just picked up a twice per month housekeeping job for pretty decent money, for someone I know who has a lovely home.  I figure this will pay for our occasional concert and theater tickets, stuff like that.  Interestingly, I'm hearing of additional opportunities to do housekeeping or landscape design, but working 2 days per month suits me just fine.

SwordGuy

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #202 on: January 20, 2018, 02:35:28 PM »
I am an extreme introvert too and the idea of a stranger or relative or friend living in my house is just unacceptable to me. I would find some other way to make money like ebay or some part time job even if I hated it at least I could come home to peace and quiet. I personally couldn't share my house with anyone but my Hub and dogs. I was an only child so I guess that is why I do not relish being around gobs of people. Some people I know had lots of brother and sisters and sharing their house wouldn't be an issue.

You might be surprised how motivational it can be to find out you can't pay the rent or buy food if you don't get a roommate.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #203 on: January 20, 2018, 10:01:02 PM »
Yes, might be true but for the foreseeable future, with our savings, that will never happen. Worst case, I would seek out senior housing and live in a studio. Living with a stranger would be the last thing on earth I would do. I do understand the there are people who like the company of others, but I don't!

Mika M

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #204 on: February 12, 2018, 03:04:57 PM »
I always tell DH I can take an office admin job somewhere if needed (as part of my push to ER sooner than later)... which I would be willing to do although as I get older age-ism is something to take into consideration. (This is against his argument to keep pushing out in our cush jobs several more years in order to avoid needing more jobs at all.)

I find temp-ing appealing since you can enjoy some of the perks of office work but still change up your routine (where you work, the people you interact with, etc.)... and likely still have lots of downtime during the week lol.

I used to work as a temp; covering down for women on maternity leave for as long as six months was nice; good chunk of cash to cover down but without the worry of having to kick yourself all the time for being stuck to a desk (the same desk) for eternity.

Mika M

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #205 on: February 12, 2018, 03:08:46 PM »
I actually just picked up a twice per month housekeeping job for pretty decent money, for someone I know who has a lovely home.  I figure this will pay for our occasional concert and theater tickets, stuff like that.  Interestingly, I'm hearing of additional opportunities to do housekeeping or landscape design, but working 2 days per month suits me just fine.

Neat... I'll have to keep that in mind, too

Roadrunner53

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #206 on: February 12, 2018, 03:22:28 PM »
I had this one temp job a bunch of years ago and it was at an okay company however, everyone was walking on eggs due to many layoffs. I was given this job to enter number from one data base to another. At first it seemed confusing but once I got it pretty darn easy. I got so good at it this one day I had done the full weeks work in 2 1/2 days! I went to my boss and asked if there was something else I could do and he said no! OMG! So, I had nothing to do for two and a half days but I needed a paycheck so I dilly dallied for the rest of the week and it was hell! Then the next week I had to stretch my 2 1/2 days of work to 5 days. OMG, it was like a slow death. I was falling asleep and was bored out of my gourd. BUT, I needed a paycheck! I did this gig for 5 1/2 months and called my agency and asked them to find me another job but they didn't. Finally, the big boss over everyone came to tell me I had two weeks left and that was around Thanksgiving. He thanked me profusely for my work and told me he would be a reference for future jobs and gave me his name and phone number. I was floored! What we do for a paycheck! It was a shame for the company because I could have done so much more for them and a shame for me because the work was way too easy and killed me! I think my last day I ran out the door with my hair on fire!


SwordGuy

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #208 on: February 12, 2018, 05:40:03 PM »
I put Hardie board plank siding up on the walls of a house we were renovating to rent out.  I had several people stop, get out of their cars, walk up to the house and try to hire me out on the spot.

This is a job I had never done before!   How awesome is that?

Back when I was an IT consultant, I mentored those consultants reporting to me about what our job was.   Our job wasn't to bring technical knowledge and skills to the customer.  It wasn't to design and build software systems.   It was to (#1) make management's problems go away and (#2) make our customer contacts look like heroes to their organization.

I've volunteered for several civic functions over the years.   I've met a number of well heeled folks who either own their own businesses, or are high up in major businesses in the area, or who have strong social connections to those two groups.   If I demonstrate I have the ability to make problems go away and make the folks in the group look like heroes, I'll be able to find some work.   It might not have a darn thing to do with IT.

Plus, it makes the community I live in a better place to live.  It's a win-win.

MicroRN

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #209 on: February 12, 2018, 05:41:32 PM »
I had this one temp job a bunch of years ago and it was at an okay company however, everyone was walking on eggs due to many layoffs. I was given this job to enter number from one data base to another. At first it seemed confusing but once I got it pretty darn easy. I got so good at it this one day I had done the full weeks work in 2 1/2 days! I went to my boss and asked if there was something else I could do and he said no! OMG! So, I had nothing to do for two and a half days but I needed a paycheck so I dilly dallied for the rest of the week and it was hell! Then the next week I had to stretch my 2 1/2 days of work to 5 days. OMG, it was like a slow death. I was falling asleep and was bored out of my gourd. BUT, I needed a paycheck! I did this gig for 5 1/2 months and called my agency and asked them to find me another job but they didn't. Finally, the big boss over everyone came to tell me I had two weeks left and that was around Thanksgiving. He thanked me profusely for my work and told me he would be a reference for future jobs and gave me his name and phone number. I was floored! What we do for a paycheck! It was a shame for the company because I could have done so much more for them and a shame for me because the work was way too easy and killed me! I think my last day I ran out the door with my hair on fire!

Oh god, I'd completely forgotten about my short stint temping.  It was then that I learned that showing up to work on time, and doing what you were supposed to put you ahead of at least 50% of the the other employees.  Add efficiency and a good attitude, and you were ahead of 90%.     

I got hired into an office that needed 4 weeks of help catching up in their continuing education department.  I opened mail, filed papers, and added continuing ed credits to a database.  Easy work, but there were boxes full of mail to process.  I was efficient, found a ton of mis-filed folders, and worked myself out of a job in just over two weeks.  They raved to my temp agency though, which was nice.

Another job was for a company that scanned medical records.  After I spent 2 whole days scanning records, the boss told me that I'd picked things up so fast I was being bumped up to QC, where I spent a hellaciously boring 8 hours a day making sure that the records had been scanned properly.  The boss kept trying to hire me full time, and was even willing to pay the temp agency's headhunter fee.  I was so glad when the summer was over!

Nick_Miller

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #210 on: February 13, 2018, 08:39:21 AM »
I would worry about the combination of ageism and the blow to my ego if I were forced into a situation where I needed to work a retail or office drone type of job.

Ageism is a real thing. Technology moves so fast. After a few years out of the workforce, I can't imagine trying to get up to speed on office tech. And I highly value autonomy/calling the shots, as many here probably do. I can't help but think how hard it would be to swallow taking instructions from people 20 years younger, people with less education, etc. I would absolutely bristle at that.

I can't imagine all the engineers, nurses, IT folks, other lawyers, etc., on these boards would adapt well to that either.



Malkynn

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #211 on: February 13, 2018, 10:08:52 AM »
I would worry about the combination of ageism and the blow to my ego if I were forced into a situation where I needed to work a retail or office drone type of job.

Ageism is a real thing. Technology moves so fast. After a few years out of the workforce, I can't imagine trying to get up to speed on office tech. And I highly value autonomy/calling the shots, as many here probably do. I can't help but think how hard it would be to swallow taking instructions from people 20 years younger, people with less education, etc. I would absolutely bristle at that.

I can't imagine all the engineers, nurses, IT folks, other lawyers, etc., on these boards would adapt well to that either.

But there’s no rule that says that you would have to take on a job like that.

Planning for potential post-FIRE careers is like planning for any other career, you need to know what your strengths and limitations are and go from there.

If retail won’t work for someone, they should plan accordingly to make sure that they can do something other than retail.

People in high end/technical careers can usually do consulting, teaching, being a board member, working in non profits, high end sales, etc, etc. Plus there isn’t much competition for those jobs since most professionals are busy making more money y’know, doing their profession, lol. Perfect for side hustles and post-FIRE jobs though.


Roadrunner53

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #212 on: February 13, 2018, 10:11:49 AM »
Anyone work/volunteer for a local historical society? We have one in town and they are always looking for volunteers. I have developed a new interest in history. Always thought it was BORING but have read a lot of interesting books on historical characters and I am pretty wowed on life back then and how they coped and lived without modern conveniences.

I would be interested in hearing what you did at the historical society and if you enjoyed it.

Villanelle

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #213 on: February 13, 2018, 11:55:53 PM »
I would worry about the combination of ageism and the blow to my ego if I were forced into a situation where I needed to work a retail or office drone type of job.

Ageism is a real thing. Technology moves so fast. After a few years out of the workforce, I can't imagine trying to get up to speed on office tech. And I highly value autonomy/calling the shots, as many here probably do. I can't help but think how hard it would be to swallow taking instructions from people 20 years younger, people with less education, etc. I would absolutely bristle at that.

I can't imagine all the engineers, nurses, IT folks, other lawyers, etc., on these boards would adapt well to that either.

I don't imagine I'd love it, but doing it, likely part time and certainly for a fairly short overall time, doesn't seem like it would be bad.  Knowing every day that unlike that 25year old ordering me around, I'm basically there for the a very short while and mostly because I choose to be so that I don't have to give up the year's travel plans or cut back to another night of meatless meals--I think psychologically that would be more than enough to get me through a short stint of working a fairly mindless job for 6-12 months. 


Mika M

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #214 on: February 20, 2018, 02:07:43 PM »
Well I already work for a drone office job so the only difference for me would be the pay


letsdoit

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #215 on: September 05, 2018, 09:41:15 AM »
If you just need to wait for your stash to grow, you could always volunteer for the Peace Corps. They are always looking for older qualified candidates (although they prefer that you have at least a Bachelor's degree). They pay for your medical, dental, room, and board while you are in the program. When you get out they give you $8k to get back to "normal" life. There are also educational benefits.

EDIT - I guess that is a very US-centic answer. Sorry about that. Also, if you do successfully volunteer for the Piece Corps you get to be considered for Federal Government jobs with "noncompetitive eligibility."

That's a very clever idea.  There's also the possibility of a long-term volunteer position through a charity where your basic living costs would be covered (I believe Doctors Without Borders has such programs and I assume other charities as well).

I've thought through a number of options if I need to economize for a few years due to an early market drop after FI.  My top two right now are:

(1) geo-arbitrage - moving overseas to somewhere where cost of living is much cheaper (Chiang Mai, Tahiland?). 

(2) Take a master's degree in Germany (taught in English) - many of these programs are in smaller towns where cost of living is reasonable and tuition ranges from free to ~$1,500 per year.

i once talked a 77 year old women into joing peace corps.  and she loved it

letsdoit

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #216 on: September 05, 2018, 09:45:34 AM »
there is a hall of fame basketball player that works as a crossing guard here

LoanShark

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #217 on: September 05, 2018, 02:06:21 PM »
And, of course, I'm starting a blog.

LOL.  Thats hilarious.


Also, remember that a 3% SWR on a diversified portfolio has never failed, for any length of time for any economic conditions.  So you don't need to earn as much as you will spend in retirement, you only need to earn enough to reduce your withdrawals down (from presumably something near 4%) to 3%.  For most people here, you can do that with a part time minimum wage job.

This is an extremely important point to this conversation...  Of the failures, the biggest factor is early losses in the market.  If you take the '73 crash from a 45% correction to a 33.75% correction then we are all looking at a 5% safe withdraw rate.  Its that big of a difference.

On $40,000 a year with a 1MM stash, all you need is a 10,000$ a year rate of payment gig to make it very survivable.  You don't even need to work for a full year (since many downturns are several months long or so).  Reducing the withdraws from 4% to 3% on 40k a year requires that 10k a year part time gig only for the duration of the correction.  Given that we don't market time, you could generally just wait until the portfolio hit the number you fire'd at and (historically speaking) it should be fine. 

10k a year in that scenario is $192 a week.  At an abysmal 8$/hr, thats still only 24 hours.  Or 12 hours a week if you could find 16$/hr.

It does seem that many are either "happy-go-lucky just get another job" -or- "you can never work again!!!" when, in reality, it would take very little to make the failure a success.

(Another side note:  basically all failures initiate at the beginning of FIRE, as in the first 2 years...   Not 30 years down the road.  Grandpas not going to flip burgers, but 45 year old retired early Mr. Awesomesauce might have to find a 10$/hr side gig for 20 hours a week for a few months.)

(And Yet Another side note:  Recessions end.  If a FIRE'ee couldn't get a job due to such a recession, there is no reason they can't do any of the aforementioned jobs a few years later when the economy recovers.  Yes they lose some to compounding and pulling out equities for living expenses at the worst time, but they also have the financial flexibility to survive and work in better years, albeit just slightly longer...)
Very good point.

FIRE47

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #218 on: September 05, 2018, 02:32:05 PM »
If you need more than the 15-20k a lower end part-time job will provide to bridge the gap something has gone horribly wrong with your plan, and I wouldn't have considered it a sound FIRE scenario in the first place.


Villanelle

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #219 on: September 07, 2018, 07:42:15 AM »
If you need more than the 15-20k a lower end part-time job will provide to bridge the gap something has gone horribly wrong with your plan, and I wouldn't have considered it a sound FIRE scenario in the first place.

And keep in mind that it is is $15-$20k for a year, then for all but the most bare bones FIREees, thats probably only $5-15k year in additional income needed as surely cuts can be made to offset from the spending side instead of the earning side.  Skip your planned 3 weeks in Europe (replace it with something semi-local and perhaps camping), change your weekly date night to take advantage of free local offerings 3/4 times, add another meatless day to your cooking, and suddenly you've "found" an extra $5k. 

Roadrunner53

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #220 on: September 07, 2018, 09:37:51 AM »
Let's say you decided to get a part time job making maybe $15,000 a year. You only take the job because you are bored and want to get out. What would you do with the money? Would you save it in IRA, if the company had 401k would you dump it there? Would you save it? Would you just take less out of your retirement funds per year? Would you spend it going out to dinners and buying things? Would you do repairs to your home? The money wouldn't be a fortune but helpful.

Monkey Uncle

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #221 on: September 07, 2018, 09:41:34 AM »
Let's say you decided to get a part time job making maybe $15,000 a year. You only take the job because you are bored and want to get out. What would you do with the money? Would you save it in IRA, if the company had 401k would you dump it there? Would you save it? Would you just take less out of your retirement funds per year? Would you spend it going out to dinners and buying things? Would you do repairs to your home? The money wouldn't be a fortune but helpful.

Definitely it goes in a 401k, if that's an option, especially if there is matching money.  If that's not an option, max out your own and your spouse's IRA.  That way you avoid paying taxes on it now, and it doesn't count toward your MAGI (which is important if you're on an ACA health plan).  Whatever you're pulling your living expenses from is likely to generate less in taxes than regular wage income.  The 401k/IRA money can be converted to a Roth during years when you don't have any job income, possibly avoiding taxes all together.

Zikoris

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #222 on: September 07, 2018, 10:29:40 AM »
Let's say you decided to get a part time job making maybe $15,000 a year. You only take the job because you are bored and want to get out. What would you do with the money? Would you save it in IRA, if the company had 401k would you dump it there? Would you save it? Would you just take less out of your retirement funds per year? Would you spend it going out to dinners and buying things? Would you do repairs to your home? The money wouldn't be a fortune but helpful.

That's $2,000 more than I spend in a year, so I'd just live off of it and not touch my stash. And save $2,000/year. Though after I retire I expect my living expenses to drop a fair bit more, so I'd probably actually save more than $2,000.

Mesmoiselle

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #223 on: September 07, 2018, 09:02:41 PM »
1. I could make 20k profit in 13 weeks at my current career. The requirements for maintaining my licence is mere bookwork.

2. "sitting" with the elderly. I'd have to go get my NA cert again, but that's cheap enough and usually can be had in a very short time. The cert may be optional if I did Private Work directly for clients. The cert is required if I'd want to go with an agency. The last time I did it, I was bored off my Duff microwaving meals for an elderly lady who just wanted company and help with meds and shower help. Mostly I was just there to keep her from being lonely and run her errands. It was $12/hour and free food over a decade ago, can't imagine it'd pay LESS now.

3. My sister sort of started her own painting/basic repair/cleaning business that I'm sure I could get into. I do 60% of the work renovating my own house, so those skills will still be there ready to be tapped into for cash as needed.

4. I plan on volunteering at places in my FI, and I'm sure that Networking would lead to something rather easy that I can't name

5. I'm already renting rooms to family, I could rent rooms easily in the future to non family

6. Mooch off my two husbands who like to work XD

sol

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #224 on: September 07, 2018, 09:03:41 PM »
6. Mooch off my two husbands who like to work XD

How do their wives feel about that plan?

Mesmoiselle

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #225 on: September 07, 2018, 09:07:28 PM »
6. Mooch off my two husbands who like to work XD

How do their wives feel about that plan?

I'm their only wife. And actually, I'm super anti mooch so I'd hate it. Just other day husband 1 said he'd save my retirement for me and I set him straight on that. I'd hate myself. It'd have to be some serious losses and missed worl opportunities for me to ever reach this point. So, it was a joke to include that. But it's odd that no one else mentioned the fact that they could rely on their spouse in a downturn, I guess everyone thinks they'll reach FI at the same time. My husbands like working and neither of them have an interest in stopping at this time, even if they didn't have to work.

Mesmoiselle

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #226 on: September 07, 2018, 09:19:06 PM »
Oh yeah
7. I've been offered a clientele docket for becoming a dominatrix before. (Turned it down) Wouldn't be tons of money, but I could probably pick up a few $100 a week to spank some bottoms.

I turned it down mostly because I don't think of it as much fun though. But work rarely is :)

MrUpwardlyMobile

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #227 on: September 07, 2018, 09:23:05 PM »

Here are a few ideas I came up with and I'd love to hear from the community:

- Teacher: school districts are always looking for people to take on teaching and, if you're smart enough to FIRE, you're smart enough to at least try out teaching


This one might be a bit iffy because many teaching jobs require a credential. However, private and charter schools do not, so this may be a possible avenue.

This is super region dependent. Certifications, degrees, etc... some areas are so competitive that you’ll never find work there.

sanderh

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #228 on: September 08, 2018, 12:17:09 AM »
[This is all true, I think nothing short of a Great Depression style market crash should cause a mustachian with a properly planned FIRE to need to work, but unfortunately, if that were to happen, likely even the minimum wage jobs would be in high demand.

This is a really good point:  income is likely to drop exactly when you need it the most. 
Prices will also drop in that case (big recession, no jobs, investments lose money), so your spending is likely to drop exactly when your income does. If your home is paid off, then it does not seem like you will face a big problem: the food, medical, etc will get cheaper. Rents will also fall. If you just invest all your wealth in volatile assets, then maybe you have a problem in a recession.

letsdoit

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #229 on: September 08, 2018, 05:31:44 AM »
Oh yeah
7. I've been offered a clientele docket for becoming a dominatrix before. (Turned it down) Wouldn't be tons of money, but I could probably pick up a few $100 a week to spank some bottoms.

I turned it down mostly because I don't think of it as much fun though. But work rarely is :)

oh , it's you.  i thought your voice sounded familiar

letsdoit

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #230 on: September 08, 2018, 05:33:17 AM »
1. I could make 20k profit in 13 weeks at my current career. The requirements for maintaining my licence is mere bookwork.

2. "sitting" with the elderly. I'd have to go get my NA cert again, but that's cheap enough and usually can be had in a very short time. The cert may be optional if I did Private Work directly for clients. The cert is required if I'd want to go with an agency. The last time I did it, I was bored off my Duff microwaving meals for an elderly lady who just wanted company and help with meds and shower help. Mostly I was just there to keep her from being lonely and run her errands. It was $12/hour and free food over a decade ago, can't imagine it'd pay LESS now.

3. My sister sort of started her own painting/basic repair/cleaning business that I'm sure I could get into. I do 60% of the work renovating my own house, so those skills will still be there ready to be tapped into for cash as needed.

4. I plan on volunteering at places in my FI, and I'm sure that Networking would lead to something rather easy that I can't name

5. I'm already renting rooms to family, I could rent rooms easily in the future to non family

6. Mooch off my two husbands who like to work XD

what is NA lic?

spartana

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #231 on: September 08, 2018, 08:44:45 AM »
Let's say you decided to get a part time job making maybe $15,000 a year. You only take the job because you are bored and want to get out. What would you do with the money? Would you save it in IRA, if the company had 401k would you dump it there? Would you save it? Would you just take less out of your retirement funds per year? Would you spend it going out to dinners and buying things? Would you do repairs to your home? The money wouldn't be a fortune but helpful.

That's $2,000 more than I spend in a year, so I'd just live off of it and not touch my stash. And save $2,000/year. Though after I retire I expect my living expenses to drop a fair bit more, so I'd probably actually save more than $2,000.
My expenses/spending are about the same as yours and this is what I would do too. However I can't imagine ever wanting to go back to work, especially not from boredom,  and find it much easier and more enjoyable to "get out" and do fun things as a FIREd person than as a working person. If I HAD to work due to necessity I would do something seasonal or short term temp. www.coolworks.com
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 08:47:26 AM by spartana »

use2betrix

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #232 on: September 08, 2018, 11:18:59 AM »
What I do now I could already easily pick up no problem in a FIRE failure situation. In fact, I plan to cut back to something similar as I near FIRE.

There are a lot of short term construction jobs during plant shut down and turnaround periods that pay well. It’s usually a ton of hours for anywhere from a couple weeks to a few months. Often 70-80 hrs a week. The lowest level unskilled labor position may be a confined space entry watch (hole watch) or a fire watch (make sure fires don’t start while welding). It’s not uncommon to make $25/hr and 100/day per diem if you’re not local. At 80 hrs that’s $2700/wk gross (the per diem is tax free). If you become more skilled, learn trades, etc, the rates sky rocket. For 6 months this winter I worked that type of job and those hours. On an 84 hour week I was making about $7k/wk with full benefits.

I figure once I get closer to FIRE I’ll do jobs like that for 2-4 months a year. I’d rather work 70 hrs/wk for 2 months than work part time for 11 months. Plus, if I ever had major unexpected expenses or wanting something a bit spendier, just pick up a job for a few weeks and pay for it.

Mesmoiselle

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #233 on: September 09, 2018, 12:42:02 AM »
...
2. "sitting" with the elderly. I'd have to go get my NA cert again,

what is NA lic?

Nurse Aide Certification with the state

Dicey

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #234 on: September 09, 2018, 09:20:49 AM »
DH is a painting contractor. He's always said there was money to be made running a business where you hired the painters, then just interfaced on the jobs to make sure they were doing quality work. I could run the business side, sourcing materials, billing, etc. The great thing about paint is that it wears out at the same rate, no matter what the economy is doing. A good source of clients is Realtors and after that, word of mouth referrals. Oh course, we would only want to work seasonally. But this is mostly imaginary. Hard to imagine our 'stache is going to tank, it's pretty solidly diversified.

Fishindude

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #235 on: September 09, 2018, 01:48:31 PM »
Before I owned my own construction company I worked my way up in the trades and still own all of the necessary tools to work several different trades.
For now, I just use the tools for maintenance and hobby projects, but if worse came to worse, i could make a living with them again.

Pennycounter

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #236 on: September 09, 2018, 02:24:39 PM »
This is why my FIRE # is so damn high. I can't ever go back to work and do minimum wage. (OK, I can, but I really really really don't want to).

Some things I might do:

Rover (I love dogs and use Rover all the time)

Real estate. It's probably tough to get into (passing the exams, finding a company to work for) but would be perfect for someone with flexible time.
I'm with you in the high fire number, which could change but at this point If it's between working another year and never working as a temp again I'll prob work longer.

But I temped a ton in my twenties before I finished college. 

Zikoris

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #237 on: September 09, 2018, 02:27:18 PM »
Here's another one - freelance editing. My partner started doing it as a side gig in the spring and ended up so busy he needed to quit his real job within two months. He has global clientele across the entire English-speaking world. It's completely remote, and requires nothing except a computer capable of running Word and internet access every few days, so we could literally go anywhere in the world and wait out something like a stock market crash or whatever.

Caveat: Very few people are good enough at this to actually work as an editor. In his case, he learned to read when he was three and has consistently read several novels a week for almost his entire life. He also has a writing degree, worked as a part-time editor while in university, and did a lot of editing in his years of working as an administrative assistant.

dresden

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #238 on: September 10, 2018, 03:40:30 AM »
One option is to volunteer as a tax preparer helping low income families get their taxes and refund.  It's quite rewarding as the average refund is 1,000 and people need it.  Plus you are learning the skills that would help if you needed to prepare taxes for an income during tax season.

At least for me a temporary seasonal job with a start and stop date seems better than a part-time job all year.

Villanelle

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #239 on: September 10, 2018, 06:54:50 AM »
This is why my FIRE # is so damn high. I can't ever go back to work and do minimum wage. (OK, I can, but I really really really don't want to).

Some things I might do:

Rover (I love dogs and use Rover all the time)

Real estate. It's probably tough to get into (passing the exams, finding a company to work for) but would be perfect for someone with flexible time.
I'm with you in the high fire number, which could change but at this point If it's between working another year and never working as a temp again I'll prob work longer.

But I temped a ton in my twenties before I finished college.

These temp jobs don't need to be like your college temp jobs (about which i am admittedly making some assumptions).  Walk a dog around your neighbor hood once a day M-F for a few months and make a couple hundred dollars a month.  Pick up groceries for the elderly neighbor lady for $100 a month and maybe drive her to and from a monthly doctor's appointment for another $20.  (Elderly people in general aren't going to be Uber-savy and are likely to be more comfortable getting a ride from someone they know.) Maybe even cook her dinner once a week.  Watch the neighbor kids for an hour to bridge the gap between school getting out and a parent getting home from work.  (That one would be torture for me personally, but some people would enjoy it.)  There are probably dozens of other similar little tasks someone could do to make some spare cash. 

There are ways to make a bit of money doing things you enjoy (walking your neighborhood, dog in tow) or things you would do anyway (grocery shopping).  It's not going to make up half of your annual spend or anything, but it could definitely be enough to make a dent during a down market, without taking much time or energy. 

flyingaway

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #240 on: September 10, 2018, 08:14:46 AM »
with that?" while the overly optimistic crowd says things like "just get another job" or "become a barista".

There is certainly a middle ground that hasn't really been explored. While a FIRE failure is not going to be able to get a software engineer job at Google, they aren't going to necessarily need to resign themselves to working at McDonald's or Starbucks either. I think most of us tend to focus on big corporate jobs because it's where we've earned our net worth.

 

How many times did you see a 65 year old barista preparing coffee at Starbucks for you?

Dicey

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #241 on: September 10, 2018, 08:56:46 AM »
with that?" while the overly optimistic crowd says things like "just get another job" or "become a barista".

There is certainly a middle ground that hasn't really been explored. While a FIRE failure is not going to be able to get a software engineer job at Google, they aren't going to necessarily need to resign themselves to working at McDonald's or Starbucks either. I think most of us tend to focus on big corporate jobs because it's where we've earned our net worth.

 

How many times did you see a 65 year old barista preparing coffee at Starbucks for you?
Can't answer that one, but I sure notice a graying of the workforce at Trader Joe's lately. I don't shop there much, so maybe it's been going on longer than I realized, but it sure seems sudden. Yay TJ's!

Unique User

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #242 on: September 10, 2018, 09:45:03 AM »
Back when I was an IT consultant, I mentored those consultants reporting to me about what our job was.   Our job wasn't to bring technical knowledge and skills to the customer.  It wasn't to design and build software systems.   It was to (#1) make management's problems go away and (#2) make our customer contacts look like heroes to their organization.

I work for a consulting company and am AMAZED by all the $150k to $250k consultants that cause drama at the client. 

Our plan includes some work after we settle down from being nomads, BUT, it is to enable travel and luxuries.  My current plan has enough for a paid off house and 4% WR that is around 35-40% higher than our tracked basic spending for the last number of years.  I'd like to think I could consult, but if not, I'm happy walking dogs.  I've also thought about substitute teaching and doing research for authors.  I have had two opposite experiences with temp work, one in a small town where I knew most of the full time residents and one in a small city where I hadn't lived there very long and didn't know many people. 

I lived in a ski resort for over a decade and did numerous small jobs - retail shifts for a friend that needed someone reliable, staffed the front desk of a real estate office for someone on maternity leave, bookkeeping, caretaking for a second homeowner, helped realtors get big mailing projects completed and if they had multiple open houses, etc.  It was all word of mouth, but easy in a small town when you are reliable and let people know you are open to work.  I saw multiple older people work for the ski area, but rents are a KILLER in ski towns. 

I moved to a small beach city and a few years later in 2009 I tried to get seasonal weekend work and put in tons of applications all over.  I didn't get a single call so I started mystery shopping.  I did tons of grocery store, mattress store and bank shops as well as phone shops and easily made in a month what I would make working two shifts a week minimum wage for less than half the time.  Husband's crap job at that time included a storage unit and a work van, he was always bringing home stuff left at the dumpster or that he would find on the curb.  We furnished our house with the best, sold the better stuff on craigslist and did 1-2 garage sales per year.  We probably made at least 2-3k per year without trying and I'm sure we could have made more if we tried.  There is always a way to make money, it just might vary depending on where you live and how long you have lived there. 

SwordGuy

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #243 on: September 10, 2018, 09:54:39 AM »
Back when I was an IT consultant, I mentored those consultants reporting to me about what our job was.   Our job wasn't to bring technical knowledge and skills to the customer.  It wasn't to design and build software systems.   It was to (#1) make management's problems go away and (#2) make our customer contacts look like heroes to their organization.

I work for a consulting company and am AMAZED by all the $150k to $250k consultants that cause drama at the client. 


No kidding!   The only drama we allowed was customers singing our praises to the heavens. :)



Seriously, this is a crazy wealthy country chock full of lazy people and/or people with pretensions to status and/or pretensions to being "better than" doing a particular job.

People have so much money they will pay other people to wash and perfume their trash cans.

How crazy is that???


There are a bazillion ways to make money in this country and more are invented every day.   








Spud

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #244 on: September 10, 2018, 12:25:30 PM »
Big questions that would need answering:

How much money do you need at what frequency to fill the gap between going back to retirement and having to work again?

What did you do over the course of your working life? Dentist? Neurosurgeon? Cab driver? Musician? What other skills do you have?

How old are you when you hit this FIRE failure? I don't care how good you were back in the day at being a consultant earning bucket loads. If you're a aged 60, ageism could well be your number one barrier to finding anything other than the low level jobs you probably don't want.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #245 on: September 11, 2018, 03:07:58 AM »
I think it depends what your FIRE failure plan is.  I have a British friend here who works as a private English teacher  at 80 years old.  She teaches children and has tons of experience and the parents love here as she's like an English teaching grandma.  She says that she still gets plenty of students and has to turn people down.

As I mentioned upthread - that's my plan for FIRE.  Even if I have enough money, I really enjoy English teaching so I'll probably do it just to keep busy and socially connected.

That said, ageism is very real.  I'm only in my 40s but I feel a lot of options are already closed off to me at this age.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #246 on: September 11, 2018, 06:09:56 AM »
Hire yourself out to pick up dog poop in people's yards.

Buy some number stencils, some white paint and go to neighborhoods. Charge people to paint their number address at the end of their driveway or curb.

Go to the Goodwill and buy games that have game pieces. You can sell the 'parts' like in monopoly and the game board separately for replacement pieces.

You can buy some small appliances and canabalize the appliance and sell 'parts'. Like for instance if you have a food processor, you can sell the blades, the container, and any other accessories individually. Electric skillets you can sell the electric cord with the heat control. You can sell the lid handles for replacement. Percolators, you can sell the coffee basket, lid and even the coffee maker without the accessories. Keurig coffee makers, sell the water container, the drip catcher and anything else you can yank off it. Washing machines and stoves, you can sell the knobs and the iron grids off of gas stoves. Most new stoves do not sell broiler pans, you can sell those. Before you throw anything out think canibalization. What can you remove from it and sell? Some doorknobs are unique like glass ones.

There are lots of replacement parts people are looking for rather than buying a whole new appliance.

Be a house sitter when people go on vacation.

If you are a handy guy, drive around some rich neighborhoods and find mailboxes that have become eyesores or never installed in the ground correctly. Leave a message in a plastic bag meant to hang of a door knob and tell them you are in the business of installing mailboxes and if they would like to have a new one installed. You could put some examples (pictures) of types of boxes and types of post you would use. Give a "starting at" price like $99. Then if they choose a more expensive type installation price it as necessary. Do you homework and become an expert on boxes, posts and costs.

You could become a personal cook and go to a person's home and cook up a weeks/month worth of dinners. You would have to be a fairly good cook. I would suggest that you put together a monthly menu, 5 days a week. You could buy some freezer recipe books that tell you how to prepare, freeze and cook/reheat the food. You would go to their house and cook up the food, package it up and freeze it. Then have the name of the entree with the instructions. In most states you have to have a licensed kitchen to prepare foods but you can go to a person's house to prepare foods without a license. Another option would be to rent out a licensed kitchen at a place like a church, grange, restaurant. There are books on how to cook for a day, eat for a month.

If you are good at sewing, you could consider alterations like hemming pants, taking in waists, shortening jacket cuffs.

If you can play an instrument, you could teach musical instruction, piano lessons.

Teach an adult education class. You don't necessarily have to be a teacher but if you have a hobby or are an expert in some area, you can charge each student a fee to get instruction. Could be jewelry making, Excel, Word, Powerpoint, learn about Medicare, Social Security, Real Estate, sewing, exercise, dance, horticulture, etc.

You could advertise to scan people's photographs on a thumbdrive so they can downsize. Offer different packages like $99 for 300 photos including thumb drive. $199 for 600 pictures including thumb drive. Include some kind of a decorative box or key chain to keep it from getting lost.

How about a party bus! Rent a luxury bus and plan day events for seniors to go out to lunch, tour a vineyard, a zoo, an aquarium, a museum, dinner theater, lobster fest, casino, culinary school, scenic places. Costs would have to be calculated.






Linda_Norway

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #247 on: September 11, 2018, 07:13:11 AM »

2. "sitting" with the elderly.<...> The last time I did it, I was bored off my Duff microwaving meals for an elderly lady who just wanted company and help with meds and shower help. Mostly I was just there to keep her from being lonely and run her errands. It was $12/hour and free food over a decade ago, can't imagine it'd pay LESS now.


This ^^^. My FIL hired a "companion lady" to accompany his dement wife half a day a week. This way FIL could take some hours off for himself. The companion lady took MIL out on car trips and let FIL pay for the fuel. She took 10 euro an hour. There must be a market taking care for wealthy elderly.

desk_jockey

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #248 on: September 11, 2018, 07:28:02 AM »
One option is to volunteer as a tax preparer helping low income families get their taxes and refund.  It's quite rewarding as the average refund is 1,000 and people need it.  Plus you are learning the skills that would help if you needed to prepare taxes for an income during tax season.

At least for me a temporary seasonal job with a start and stop date seems better than a part-time job all year.

I’ve thought of this one too.  My one reservation would be working for a large tax firm that pushes cash-advances of your tax return for a fee.  Those transactions are at effective interest rates similar to pay-day loans.  If I worked for a firm where I was forced to sell that “service”, I wouldn’t last a day.  Other than that, working 3 to 4 months a year as a tax preparer seems like a good way to help ride out an early dip in asset valuation. 

wbranch

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #249 on: September 11, 2018, 11:20:38 AM »
I am a CPA and will probably try to switch to more seasonal/tax season work over next 5-10 yrs. As long as I still enjoy it, I see no reason to stop.

I am new to fly fishing and I have been thinking about going to a guide school in a few years if I am still into it. Combined I could have a decent income during winter and summer/fall. From some guides I have talked to, even in a downturn the kind of people that spend money of fly fishing guides still have the money to do it.

My wife does graphic/web design and currently works from home with a good schedule. She wants to scale back in few years and expand a side hustle we have messed around with off and on.